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JC
Cutler is inconsistent and injury prone. He's a good QB, but he isn't great for reasons mentioned and others. Which is not good cause he'll demand "great QB" money.
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JC
Cutler is inconsistent and injury prone. He's a good QB, but he isn't great for reasons mentioned and others. Which is not good cause he'll demand "great QB" money.
What does "JC" mean on these boards? I see it all the time.
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Is there a QB in this draft of Jay Cutlers quality? No.
I think the best way to approach it is the way Seattle did it with Flynn, Jackson and Wilson. Pay a free agent to come in and still draft a QB. You really cannot count on Hoyer at this point.
Sign Cutler
Draft a QB
Keep Cambell or Hoyer
Cut either Cambell or Hoyer.
Let them hash it out.
Totally agree on the QB part 
Only that I think we could get some late round pick for either Campbell or Hoyer considering their play this season and minimal cost/risk. They'd upgrade a lot of backup spots around the league and that's worth a late rounder.
People forget the big difference in career stats between Cutler and Campbell. If you can pass protect, Cutler will thrive in our system and with Gordon/Cameron
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Is there a QB in this draft of Jay Cutlers quality? No.
Then you say:
Quote:
Draft a QB
If we already have two backups, at worst, and nobody in this draft is even equal to Cutler - who isn't all that special, by the way - then WHY would we draft ANY QB from this class????
One, or both, of your statements make little sense.
Nah you misunderstood. I meant is there anyone as good right now, coming out of the draft, fresh out of the box as good as the veteran Jay Cutler is right now. I don't believe so. That doesn't mean there isn't a guy with the potential to be better.
It's about hedging our bets. The QB is everything, we need to figure it out, the volume approach worked for Seattle and we have the money.
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Gotcha.
I'm against signing him because I believe that between Campbell & Hoyer we have "good enough" to get by with when it comes to older guys with a limited future.
However, with the Draft, I'm am fully on-board with the idea of taking two QB's in the first three rounds. In fact, if our first four picks were 2 QB's, OG, and ILB, I'd be perfectly content with that.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Just Clicking. As in, "I'm not replying to you specifically."
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Quote:
Quote:
JC
Cutler is inconsistent and injury prone. He's a good QB, but he isn't great for reasons mentioned and others. Which is not good cause he'll demand "great QB" money.
What does "JC" mean on these boards? I see it all the time.
"Just clicking"
And anything in purple color is considered "sarcasm". 
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I honestly don't see the greatness in Cutler's game. I look at him and see a guy who is closer to Jason Campbell than Peyton Manning. (by far) I see a guy who has generally been pretty close in TD passes and INT in almost every year of his career. Both guys have been decent in creating big plays throughout their career. I just don't see "elite" when I look at either guy ...... but Campbell has shown some definite ability in this offense.
Would Cutler? Who knows?
Both guys have played in the WCO and Air Coryell. Neither guy distinguished himself in the Air Coryell system until Campbell this season with modest success thus far.
Cutler played under Martz for parts of 2 season in Chicago. (25 games) He went 443-746 (59.4%) 5593 yards, 36 TD, 23 INT, and he was sacked 75 times in these 25 games.
Campbell has played parts of 3 different seasons in the Air Coryell system. (25 games) He has gone 476-821 (58%) 5421 yards, 31 TD, 20 INT, and has been sacked 30 times in these games.
Does this say anything? Who knows? However, neither guy has really separated himself from the other playing in the offense we play.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I'm somewhat surprised that more people wouldn't want Cutler. He'd instantly be the best QB we've had since the return ... and it wouldn't be close. I'd take him in a heartbeat.
There's something else I like about Cutler, and I think this is something that Cleveland needs. We need attitude at the QB position. We need a guy with an 'I don't give a rat's behind what people think" attitude ... we need a thick skinned, SOB at that position in the worst way. And we need the competitive fire that comes with that attitude. I think Cutler has it in droves. There is such a black cloud hanging over this franchise that requires some attitude to slice through it. This franchise is too snake bitten for nice guys.
Manziel intrigues me as well because I think he would bring this quality to the team.
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I think the best way to approach it is:
Sign Cutler
Draft a QB
Keep ...Hoyer
I am completely on board with this approach...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I think the best way to approach it is:
Sign Cutler
Draft a QB
Keep ...Hoyer
I am completely on board with this approach...
and keep campbell and I'm on board
we go through QB's like a priest goes through wine.
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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I'm with you, except who are we going to stash on the PS?
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Why stash anyone? Find another way to free up one spot on the active roster. The bottom of the roster if full of guys that barely contribute.
You only have 46 of 53 players active on game day, so your game day roster composition isn't really an issue.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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not one guy on our roster can make a throw like that.
that's so not true. Weeden can hit that throw. Of course, he'd have to be aiming at the RB for the dumpoff when he did it.
#gmstrong
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but we have a lot that can make this throw.. web page
yebat' Putin
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but we have a lot that can make this throw..
web page
If that throw were a good thing, Weeden would be a hall of famer no doubt.
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Not sure if we have WR's that can cover that well though. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Yeah, Weeden def has the cannon...
Man that bomb by Cutler was a beauty though.
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Report: Bears 'likely' to let Jay Cutler walk in offseason
By Will Brinson | NFL Writer
December 11, 2013 1:42 pm CT Just before Marc Trestman told reporters that Jay Cutler will be named the Bears starter if he's medically cleared on Wednesday, a report circulated that the Bears will "likely" let Cutler walk in the offseason. Unless, according to Jason Cole of the National Football Post, Cutler is willing to take a "team-friendly deal." Timing is everything. “[The Bears] believe in Trestman after what they've seen from [backup quarterback Josh] McCown," a source told Cole. "Between his system and the two big receivers [Brandon Marshall and Alshon Jeffery], you have a system where a quarterback can flourish. I don't know if McCown is going to be the starter [next season], but I think the team would be fine letting Cutler test the market and then go draft someone if he left." This isn't an unreasonable stance, really. I argued for just that after Josh McCown's performance Monday night. The simple economics say that if Trestman can coach up McCown and the Bears can find a future franchise quarterback for cheap in the draft, they're better off than they would be paying Cutler $20 million. Chicago, um, probably knows this. Phil Emery is a smart dude and he managed to rebuild the Bears offense in impressively fast fashion. They'd love nothing more than for Cutler to take a team-friendly deal and hang around. But they also might not be confident enough in the McCown/draft pick combo to roll the dice on Cutler -- who is good friends with Marshall, the team's top wideout -- walking away for nothing. Cutler would make bank in the open market. He'll be 31 by the time 2014 kicks off, but he's a "franchise quarterback" and would easily be the top guy available in free agency. Finding a taker for his physical talents wouldn't be hard.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I think people are getting too infatuated by an inflated stat-line of McCown Monday night. that was a terrible defense and McCown easily could have had 3 INTs (2 were dropped, the third was taken away on penalty) along with a bunch of other bad plays that were covered up by the defense being all-around terrible.
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I think people are getting too infatuated by an inflated stat-line of McCown Monday night.
I agree some of it might be infatuation but it's not just Monday night.. the guy has started the last 7 games, is completing almost 67% of his passes, has 13 TDs and 1 INT... and a QB rating of 110... every QB gets the benefit of a dropped INT here and there just like every one suffers from a dropped pass...
The Bears need to take a long look at how, with QB play like that, they are 3-4 over that stretch...
yebat' Putin
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JC
Part of Cutler's problem for the past couple of years has been the Bears's pass protection.
I'm not saying that it's entirely the Oline's fault (because that's the nature of the game) however...
Martz's scheme he wanted to run never really worked with the personnel he had in place. He wanted to stretch the field with long routes and the O-line never really had time to set those up and let the routes develop downfield.
Granted, Cutler's pocket presence isn't the greatest. I've seen him have a case of the dumb... He fumbled like 3 times in one game, Chicago never really had true play making receiver until B-Marsh though.
I think this team has the personnel for Cutler to be successful here. And signing him would allow them to look into other areas in this year's draft.
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Quote:
Report: Bears 'likely' to let Jay Cutler walk in offseason
By Will Brinson | NFL Writer
December 11, 2013 1:42 pm CT
Just before Marc Trestman told reporters that Jay Cutler will be named the Bears starter if he's medically cleared on Wednesday, a report circulated that the Bears will "likely" let Cutler walk in the offseason.
Unless, according to Jason Cole of the National Football Post, Cutler is willing to take a "team-friendly deal." Timing is everything.
“[The Bears] believe in Trestman after what they've seen from [backup quarterback Josh] McCown," a source told Cole. "Between his system and the two big receivers [Brandon Marshall and Alshon Jeffery], you have a system where a quarterback can flourish. I don't know if McCown is going to be the starter [next season], but I think the team would be fine letting Cutler test the market and then go draft someone if he left."
This isn't an unreasonable stance, really. I argued for just that after Josh McCown's performance Monday night. The simple economics say that if Trestman can coach up McCown and the Bears can find a future franchise quarterback for cheap in the draft, they're better off than they would be paying Cutler $20 million.
Chicago, um, probably knows this. Phil Emery is a smart dude and he managed to rebuild the Bears offense in impressively fast fashion.
They'd love nothing more than for Cutler to take a team-friendly deal and hang around. But they also might not be confident enough in the McCown/draft pick combo to roll the dice on Cutler -- who is good friends with Marshall, the team's top wideout -- walking away for nothing.
Cutler would make bank in the open market. He'll be 31 by the time 2014 kicks off, but he's a "franchise quarterback" and would easily be the top guy available in free agency. Finding a taker for his physical talents wouldn't be hard.
I started doing a little reading/research on Trestman and the offensive success the Bears have had, and based upon what I've read about Trestman's history, his offensive coaching ability, and the fact that they have two QB's of vastly different histories and ability levels playing nearly identical ball, I am inclined to side with the Bears on this one.. McCown is playing so far above his head right now, it's nuts. He hasn't played like this since the years he was in Arizona with Fitzgerald and Boldin.
This dynamic is the result of the system and those two monster WR's.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I think people are getting too infatuated by an inflated stat-line of McCown Monday night.
I agree some of it might be infatuation but it's not just Monday night.. the guy has started the last 7 games, is completing almost 67% of his passes, has 13 TDs and 1 INT... and a QB rating of 110... every QB gets the benefit of a dropped INT here and there just like every one suffers from a dropped pass...
The Bears need to take a long look at how, with QB play like that, they are 3-4 over that stretch...
To be fair, Jay started two of those loses. So technially, Josh is 3-2 as a starter. Josh played well off the bench for Jay, who left the field leaving a hole for Josh to play out of that's for sure.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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What I know is this: we effectively run the very same defense that Pittsburgh has run for decades. They tend to not have their LB's get abused by RB's while we do.
I'll let other folks figure out the How's and Why's, but there is very clearly something wrong with this picture.
Have you ever considered that they have had Troy P. at SS for years and we have a SS who can't cover?
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you never miss a chance to bash Ward even when talking other positions.
no, I think we are referring to how Robertson was clearly flailing in attempts to cover RBs this year. honestly, it's surprising as coverage was his strength last year. i'm not sure if OC's figured out some of his tendencies (he tried to jump routes last year) ? or just figured out his weaknesses, but he's been a major liability this year. our biggest in coverage.
Ward has generally been either guarding deep (his weakness as he doesn't have a great path to the ball in flight) or TEs in man (which he is pretty good at, but not great). He is definitely at his best while attacking forward.
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you never miss a chance to bash Ward even when talking other positions.
no, I think we are referring to how Robertson was clearly flailing in attempts to cover RBs this year. honestly, it's surprising as coverage was his strength last year. i'm not sure if OC's figured out some of his tendencies (he tried to jump routes last year) ? or just figured out his weaknesses, but he's been a major liability this year. our biggest in coverage.
Ward has generally been either guarding deep (his weakness as he doesn't have a great path to the ball in flight) or TEs in man (which he is pretty good at, but not great). He is definitely at his best while attacking forward.
personally, I think it's mingo and sheard (experience) that are not in a good enough position when playing zone(our LB's play a ton of zone) If they are leaving open windows that cause throwing lanes that get passed onto Robertson. Also, as I stated before... Reggie bush was covered m2m by Robertson all game and we made no adjustments. the first half he was held in check... DET made adjustments and got chunks of yards.Not many CB's can cover Bush m2m let alone LB's
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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I'm somewhat surprised that more people wouldn't want Cutler. He'd instantly be the best QB we've had since the return ... and it wouldn't be close. I'd take him in a heartbeat.
There's something else I like about Cutler, and I think this is something that Cleveland needs. We need attitude at the QB position. We need a guy with an 'I don't give a rat's behind what people think" attitude ... we need a thick skinned, SOB at that position in the worst way. And we need the competitive fire that comes with that attitude. I think Cutler has it in droves. There is such a black cloud hanging over this franchise that requires some attitude to slice through it. This franchise is too snake bitten for nice guys.
Manziel intrigues me as well because I think he would bring this quality to the team.
People have always been bedazzled with Cutler's arm-talent, but in terms of being an NFL QB, he's been good but not at all great. To put it into perspective, you said he'd be the best QB we've had since '99 and it's not close.
Jay Cutler's career passer rating: 84.4
Jason Campbell's carrer rating: 83.0
Now before someone decides to get all stOOpid with this and suggest that I'm making a claim that Campbell is as good or better than Cutler, just know that's not what's happening here. What I am doing is pointing out why Cutler isn't the kind of guy that people are going goo-goo or gah-gah over...nor should they.
Is Cutler a guy that you want to throw huge money at? Is he worth what would be a huge contract or even a couple of very high picks should the Bears elect to tag him?
I don't know that he is. He certainly hasn't been for Chicago after they gave up two 1st rounders and a 3rd rounder for him. Those lack of picks are part of the reason why the Bears haven't been able to get over the hump.
Here's a quick comparison of a "Journeyman" in Campbell and "Franchise" guy in Cutler...
Both guys came out in '06. Both guys are not on their original teams, and in Cutler's case there's a real chance he'll be on his third. Cutler's career rating of 84.4 is hardly far greater than Campbell's 83. Cutler's TD/INT ratio is 1.38 TD's to every INT. Campbell's is 1.55. Campbell has 36 fumbles to Cutler's 35. Cutler complete's 61% of his passes to Campbell's 60.7%.
Now to be very fair here Cutler has played in more games, has a higher YPA at 7.21 against Campbell's 6.73, and has a QBR of 55 against Campbell's 47. But he's missed plenty of time over the last 3 seasons (14 starts) and everyone knows that he's been a headcase at times.
Yes, Cutler would be an upgrade over Campbell, but a significant upgrade? I don't believe so.
People love the tools that Cutler brings to the table, but he's not unlike Jeff George in that regard. His physical abilities have often been overshadowed by what's gone on between the ears. At various times he's been reviled by the fanbase and replied in-kind.
Would I like to see the Browns sign Cutler for the right price? Yes, I would. He's a guy that we could plug in for the next 3 or 4 seasons and say we have a legit QB. He's good, but he's not great. The truth is he and Campbell are having very comparable seasons, and when you get right down to brass tacks and compare bottom-line results Cutler isn't a huge upgrade over Campbell. If the price to get Cutler are a couple of #1 picks and a big contract I say no way. Even if it's a 1st and a 2nd I don't bother with it. Cutler is good but he's not great, and he certainly isn't a huge upgrade over Campbell.
The Bears aren't just going to let him walk away. Anyone who truly believes that either doesn't understand the situation or hasn't looked at it yet. So the price to get a good but not great QB will be severe.
Jay Cutler would be the best QB we've had, but I'm doubting he'll be available, and even if he is, the cost will be prohibitive.
Regarding the "I don't give a ." attitude you believe this team needs, I disagree. Strongly. That attitude got Cutler kicked out of Denver, and nearly got Cutler ran out of Chicago. I don't want that kind of QB here. Truth be told more often than not those kinds of QB's end up failing.
There's nothing wrong with this teams attitude that can't be fixed by a running game and a few upgrades at other positions. What you're talking about is an arrogance. Teams that have championship QB's are filled with confidence. Big difference.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I don't think anyone is thinking we should give up 1st round picks for Cutler. I'd walk away at that point at least.
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it is a good point on 2nd half adjustments. i'll have to rewatch the Lions game at some point because my main memory is I was upset at him getting scorched at the time (but, you bring up a great point of why didn't we adjust for it?).
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I believe you nailed it Toad! I believe there will be somewhat of a bidding war for Cutler and the price will outweigh the benefits. You gave very legitimate reasons why and I touched upon some of those reasons in another thread.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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jc
Personally I'm not interested in Cutler. I think his best days are behind him or he has topped out...
I'd rather go into next season with a competition between Hoyer, Cambell and a rookie draft pick. I also do not want to break the bank to draft a QB this year. I think Hoyer is going to pan out for us short term until we can find the RIGHT QB to go all in on.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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The Bears would have to franchise Cutler in order to control him contractually. The 2014 QB franchise tag will be something like $16 million. That would hit their cap immediately. Now they will have cap space available to handle such a tender, but do they want to take the chance that no one wants to trade for Cutler at that dollar amount? Cutler has already said that he would return for the 1 year franchise tender, so what happens for the Bears if he accepts and signs the tender as soon as they tag him? They are then on the hook for $16 million. Maybe they can trade him at that point, and maybe not. That's a big 1 year contract. Not every team can afford that, and not every team will want to commit that much of their cap to him on just a 1 year deal. Obviously a team trading for him could negotiate a new deal beforehand, but that number if sure to be high given that the starting point would be that $16 million tender.
Now maybe Cutler is bluffing about being more than willing to play for the tender, and his willingness to sign it immediately, but do the Bears take that risk?
It will be a hard decision for them.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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...and like I stated above, it's not that the Bears can't handle the franchise tag number, it's that they have A LOT of free agents this offseason. Sure they can tag him and keep him, but that number will prohibit them from signing a lot of their other pieces they want to retain.
That's why I said they'll either have him with a long term deal or let him walk. I don't see a situation where Cutler plays under that franchise tag. It hurts everyone. And the Bears and Cutler know what's it's like playing short with Cutler (trading away all those picks to Denver really hurt their ability to field the right kind of team in the first few years - and it's still hurting them in a way).
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864 Likes: 26
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864 Likes: 26 |
Looks like Cutler is going to start this weekend. I'll be there to watch him and evaluate myself.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,025 Likes: 1
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,025 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
...and like I stated above, it's not that the Bears can't handle the franchise tag number, it's that they have A LOT of free agents this offseason. Sure they can tag him and keep him, but that number will prohibit them from signing a lot of their other pieces they want to retain.
That's why I said they'll either have him with a long term deal or let him walk. I don't see a situation where Cutler plays under that franchise tag. It hurts everyone. And the Bears and Cutler know what's it's like playing short with Cutler (trading away all those picks to Denver really hurt their ability to field the right kind of team in the first few years - and it's still hurting them in a way).
A lot depends on the market too... I can't see the Bears overpaying for him, especially when Trestman is making a McCown brother look like Tom Brady.
Who's really going to go after him? Houston? Tennessee?
There aren't really that many suitors. I don't think every team that needs a QB would actually go after Cutler.
Houston or Arizona would be probably the two that come to mind right away for me. Both of those teams are ready to win right now. The Browns are in the conversation, although I don't think we're quite to their level of talent.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
I guess I should start a "how many interceptions will Haden have?" thread.  Being in Chicago I can tell you, most fans don't like him. And the ones that do like him, they aren't super high on him. I suppose it's not much different than how most Browns fans feel about our QBs, they're either awful, terrible or just ok (never very good or great). As a STH for the Bears, I was hoping Josh would start the rest of the way because I want them to win the division and get me playoff tickets. I think Jay will crash and burn (which is maybe what the Bears front office wants to see, it could make the offseason decision easier).
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,025 Likes: 1
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,025 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
I guess I should start a "how many interceptions will Haden have" thread.
Being in Chicago I can tell you, most fans don't like him. And the one that do like him, they aren't super high on him. I suppose it's not much different than how most Browns fans feel about our QBs, they are either awful, terrible or ok (never very good or great).
All the people I know don't like the guy but put up with him because of the vacancy at the position for 4 decades....
He comes off as smug and a total jerk, but I really don't think he's that bad of a guy. He conducts himself well in interviews. But just like all the memes point out, his body language is horrible (don't carrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre).
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 31 Bears 38 Cutler
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