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Right, most of it comes from his general jerkish face on the sideline or walking off the field after an interception. He just looks like that guy from high school you wanted to fight, just because, even though you knew he was an overall nice guy.
I also think his "Bad Jay" games really hurt his PR too. He seems to toss a real junker every 3rd game (150 yards, 3 INTs, 5 sacks). It would be one thing if he were consistantly slightly above average, but he's well above average one game, average the next, and then worse than Weeden in the 3rd. At the end of the year, assuming he makes it through the year, his stats are good but you can't seem to shake the 4 bad performances that ruined the season when you needed him to just play average. It really annoys this fanbase.
Yes, they put up with him because he's better than Rex Grossman, Kyle Orton or any other trash QB the Bears have had in the last few decades.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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#gmstrong
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Erik Kramer!!!!
or that one year with Jim Miller?
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Yeah, Forte scares me as' well. Our run defense seems to have... declined some these past few games.  We still haven't let up a 100 yard rusher??? I think all the fear most dawgs were talking about had to do with Forte catching passes out of the backfield - which we have not had a solution all year...mostly its been Robertson's coverage and he always seems to be just a step off.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Regarding the "I don't give a ." attitude you believe this team needs, I disagree. Strongly. That attitude got Cutler kicked out of Denver, and nearly got Cutler ran out of Chicago. I don't want that kind of QB here. Truth be told more often than not those kinds of QB's end up failing.
There's nothing wrong with this teams attitude that can't be fixed by a running game and a few upgrades at other positions. What you're talking about is an arrogance. Teams that have championship QB's are filled with confidence. Big difference.
There was a lot you covered, but I just highlighted the above. Here are a few things I think I think about your overall post.
1. I'm not really a Campbell fan. He did play brilliantly last week. He's had a few really good games. He also had a couple of bad ones. I just don't care for him at QB. I don't think he's consistent enough. I don't see 'playmaker' when I think of Campbell. I see a guy who on occasion is slightly better than a game manager.
2. I like Hoyer much better than Campbell. I'm sure some of that has to do with still being an unknown, but I like the way the team rallies around him. I like the feeling that he can lead us on a game winning drive when needed. I like that his former Pats teammates talk him up unprovoked. I like that he is kind of fiery. We need a fiery leader at QB. Campbell is too passive for my tastes.
3. I see Cutler ... even at the age of 31 ... having a much greater chance of finishing his career strong than Campbell. He's certainly 'flashed' more...stats be damned. And I by no means am advocating doing anything stupid to get him. But I'd take him over Campbell any day of the week and twice on Sunday. With our OL, Gordon, Cameron, and a player that we add in the offseason, he could instantly make us an 9 win or more team, IMO.
The reason I highlighted the quotes of yours above is because I believe we strongly need someone with an attitude at the QB position. Cleveland is a tough place to play due to all the losing. We need someone tough with attitude to help turn this thing around ... while being able to handle the ire of fans along the way for the inevitable speed bumps that will come. I don't think Cutler is arrogant at all. I just think he doesn't give a crap. As long as that guy is a good teammate, we need some of that "don't give a crap" attitude on this team, IMO.
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I agree on Cutler....I think he is a darn good QB. I said it then, I say it now.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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it is a good point on 2nd half adjustments. i'll have to rewatch the Lions game at some point because my main memory is I was upset at him getting scorched at the time (but, you bring up a great point of why didn't we adjust for it?).
Don't take my word for it... take Reggie Bush's word for it:
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/10/detroit_lions_running_back_reg.html
After not catching a pass in the first half, Bush caught five passes for 57 yards in the second. (halftime adjustment)
Bush seemed surprised the Browns would leave him alone on a linebacker. Robertson finished the game second on the Browns with eight tackles and a sack.
“That was an area we needed to exploit," he said. “If they're going to play us man-to-man, with me and a linebacker, we feel like that's a scenario we can win. We made the adjustment in the second half and started to throw the ball a little more."
“In the second half, we made the adjustment," Bush said. “We felt like there was some one-on-one opportunities we could take advantage of. One was me against 53 (Browns inside linebacker Craig Robertson), and we made it work.''
or Stafford's word for it:
“We had to feel out their game plan," Stafford said. “They're a zone team on film and they came out today and played cover-one the whole game. We said, 'Hey, if they want to play man coverage, let's get Reggie Bush on (Robertson). That's a great matchup.'
same stuff I've been saying for a while.our LB's play a lot of zone. You can't expect ANY LB in the NFL to cover Bush... he's got sick speed.
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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So, we intentionally called a defense to put ourselves at a disadvantage, and then stayed with it?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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So, we intentionally called a defense to put ourselves at a disadvantage, and then stayed with it?
well, yes.
We should have gone back to zone or made adjustments in the 4th Q. that is also why we are getting lots of short passes against us and we don't have any 100 yard rushers against us.
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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3. I see Cutler ... even at the age of 31 ... having a much greater chance of finishing his career strong than Campbell. He's certainly 'flashed' more...stats be damned. And I by no means am advocating doing anything stupid to get him. But I'd take him over Campbell any day of the week and twice on Sunday. With our OL, Gordon, Cameron, and a player that we add in the offseason, he could instantly make us an 9 win or more team, IMO.
Getting Cutler would open up our entire Offense and Offseason. I really don't care about the money. Make it front-loaden if need be, incentive-laden, whatever. Banner is smart with that stuff, so I trust him there. We ponied up 20mil this past offseason for 2 positions with D.Bryant, Kruger and Mingo. While solid to good (Bryant+Kruger) to "flashing" (Mingo), none of these guys made a game changing play this season. Not one single TO created to show for 20mil. My point? If it takes 10-20mil/year for Cutler, you still do it, because he impacts the game more. What could we lose with 30+mil in cap? The "save the cap" contest? 
Imagine our "freedom" in the draft too with Cutler as the top guy signed: so many options. We can go BPA, even trade down with our first pick etc. We control the draft without that "having to draft a QB at all costs somewhere in the 1st" cloud hanging over our head.
My "dream scenario" right now is sign Cutler, even if he 's the only FA. In the draft add Mike Evans with the first pick, alternatively Sammy Watkins.
Now imagine Cutler heaving it to Gordon, Cameron and Evans or Watkins and Joe Thomas protecting his blind side. It's the nuts.
So many options with the Colts pick too at the end of the 1st. Value pick an OL in a strong class, DB, value pick a falling QB, trade…many options.
Getting Cutler would be HUGE. It would accelerate our "window of opportunity" AND open up the entire offseason.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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I'm with you on this one, Django. Cutler would absolutely be huge.
That doesn't mean that I like him as our guy. Personally, I think the guy is a wuss and a bust as far as his potential coming into the league.
I like to bring him in, though, because he's a bigger, better, shinier version of Campbell. That is, a vet that can hold down the fort for 2 years, max, while the QBs behind him settle into place. We have got to get this next QB (draft) pick right, and a big part of that involves not throwing that guy to the wolves right out of the gate. Cutler, Hoyer, and possibly even Campbell as well ensures that our newest QB project won't get spoiled right out of the gate.
Will he be expensive...? Probably. I'm not so sure we're going to have to back up the Brinks truck like people are saying, though. I think the true talent-starved teams won't look at Cutler, and vice-versa. I also think that the guys that we have in place (not terrible pass-blocking oline, receiving options, good D, and lots of picks for adding additional talent in key places) makes us an attractive landing spot for Cutler.
The only negative is, as some have mentioned, if Cutler is looking for his final contract (long-term and big money), then everything that I just said goes out the window. No way do I give that guy something like that.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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The problem is, signing Cutler will require a big $$$, long term deal. It simply isn't worth it.
His back up has better numbers this year. Sure McCown is playing lights out, but if that doesn't tell you the system, coaching and talent there isn't a part in Cutlers somewhat successful stint there, I don't know what will.
Even with a running game, Cutler hasn't played lights out. I just feel some are so desperate for a QB, they'd rather settle for a slight upgrade over Campbell as a short term Band-Aid.
I simply don't see going bonkers over Cutler with a huge, long term investment. And you will have to do that in order to land him.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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My sentiments, precisely.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I get hot and cold on the Cutler idea. Even as I was making this post (which was going to agree with Pit's comments for the most part) I had second thoughts. Yes, Cutler is going to demand cash. Maybe more than Banner is willing to fork out. And yes, it will have to be a long term contract because it's probably the last shot at one in his career. Also, he may not want anything to do with the Cleveland Browns. But I can't help but think about a few things: - He'll INSTANTLY improve this offense by a large margin IMO and would be by far better than any option we currently have. - In my opinion, with the talent this team already has, he makes the team a playoff contender in the short term-- more specifically, 2014. - I think Cleveland may be attractive because of the good pass protection. This year is the first year Cutler has had some in Chicago. I forget how it was for him in Denver, but under Shanahan, I'm assuming it was good. - A signing like this won't pressure the FO to take a QB with their first pick...that is unless there is someone they really, really like. At this point, it's Bridgewater and then a big gap to everyone else. Maybe this changes, maybe not. But signing someone like Cutler allows the FO to address other positions like ILB, OG/C, WR, etc if the QB prospects are not rated as high. I was listening to the radio this afternoon, and some journalist reported that his sources told him the Browns really liked Mariota (take it FWIW). With him out of the picture for now, getting Cutler may allow them to go for it next year whether it's him or someone else that may decide to come out....Jameis Winston... 
Tackles are tackles.
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the Browns really liked Mariota (take it FWIW). With him out of the picture for now, getting Cutler may allow them to go for it next year whether it's him or someone else that may decide to come out....Jameis Winston...
In order for the Browns to be in position to do that, they'll have to NOT be a playoff team next season, which flies against the notion of wanting what you'd hope Cutler brings.
Personally, I don't believe that Cutler brings more than Hoyer or Campbell; I believe that his stats are grossly inflated by the system he is in. You can't just look at this season and think "Yeah, THAT is the Cutler we're going to get". You have to look at his entire career and guesstimate that you're far more likely to, at best, get an average of all of his seasons.... and that really is not an overly pretty picture, at all.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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the Browns really liked Mariota (take it FWIW). With him out of the picture for now, getting Cutler may allow them to go for it next year whether it's him or someone else that may decide to come out....Jameis Winston...
In order for the Browns to be in position to do that, they'll have to NOT be a playoff team next season, which flies against the notion of wanting what you'd hope Cutler brings.
Personally, I don't believe that Cutler brings more than Hoyer or Campbell; I believe that his stats are grossly inflated by the system he is in. You can't just look at this season and think "Yeah, THAT is the Cutler we're going to get". You have to look at his entire career and guesstimate that you're far more likely to, at best, get an average of all of his seasons.... and that really is not an overly pretty picture, at all.
Regarding Mariota....not necessarily. They guy could have a mediocre season next year or get injured. Maybe the Browns trade down to pick up a 1st rounder in 2015, or grab other early round picks to make a deal. My point is....ANYTHING can happen from now to the 2015 draft. But yes, if Mariota improves his game, no other college QB steps up, we simply have 7 draft picks (one in each round) then yes, we have a very small chance of landing him.
I understand your Cutler concerns. One thing I will disagree with is your comment about equating Cutler to Hoyer/Campbell. I think Cutler is better than both...based on the large sample size we've seen from Campbell (Redskins, Raiders, Bears, Cleveland) and the small sample size we've seen from Hoyer ( one pass in NE, One game in Arizona, and 2 games in Cleveland). If you made me choose between the three to start next year, I'd take Cutler in a heartbeat.
Tackles are tackles.
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I am not nearly as high on Mariota as everyone else. No doubt he is a great talent, but this guy really struggled reading the more complicated collegiate defenses such as Stanford's. NFL defenses and coverages are way more complex.
I agree w/DJ in that imagine what we could do in the draft if we signed Cutler. I know the guy gets a bad rap, but he is a very talented guy. He has matured a lot in the last couple of years. He would fit perfectly in Norv's offense.
On the other hand, he does have some baggage and has been injured a lot.
I'm like Memphis in regards to saying it's a tough call, either way. I see the benefits and the possible problems of going after him.
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The problem is, signing Cutler will require a big $$$, long term deal. It simply isn't worth it.
His back up has better numbers this year. Sure McCown is playing lights out, but if that doesn't tell you the system, coaching and talent there isn't a part in Cutlers somewhat successful stint there, I don't know what will.
Even with a running game, Cutler hasn't played lights out. I just feel some are so desperate for a QB, they'd rather settle for a slight upgrade over Campbell as a short term Band-Aid.
I simply don't see going bonkers over Cutler with a huge, long term investment. And you will have to do that in order to land him.
Fortunately, we don' have to worry about The Browns going after Cutler. I don't believe that Joe Banner would spend that kinda money on a guy you can't get 10 years or more out of.
JMO of course.
#GMSTRONG
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Fortunately, we don' have to worry about The Browns going after Cutler.
Is Cutler a truly "elite" QB?...possibly. Is he a "franchise" QB?...likely. Do we have an elite or franchise QB?...no. I would suggest that he would have to be seriously considered...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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See, I think this is where the confusion lies...
I do NOT think Cutler is elite, NOR do I think he's a franchise QB.
I DO think the Browns should go after him and attempt to sign him to a shorter-term contract. He would be an upgraded stopgap over our current stopgaps.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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The phone probably gets hung up after 'short-term'.
This is Cutler's retirement contract.
If he's not a Bear next year, he's probably a Raider.
I would take the guy in another scenario, but he's looking for a contract he hasn't merited (and he'll get it). No thank you.
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Fortunately, we don' have to worry about The Browns going after Cutler.
Is Cutler a truly "elite" QB?...possibly. Is he a "franchise" QB?...likely. Do we have an elite or franchise QB?...no. I would suggest that he would have to be seriously considered...
There is that word ELITE again. LOL
If he's truly a franchise QB, he won't be there for anyone to grab. Just because you don't have something you need, you don't go grasping at straws. See the Redskins giving 3 first round picks and a second round pick for what looks like a one year wonder so far. I know that can change and I hope it does because I think RG is a decent kid and I'd like to see him succeed.
But wouldn't it be funny if the guy they picked in the middle rounds turns out to be the star they've been dying for.
The reason I think they'll pass on him is two fold, 30 years old and the money it would take to get him. Banner isn't that crazy.
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See, I think this is where the confusion lies...
I do NOT think Cutler is elite, NOR do I think he's a franchise QB.
I DO think the Browns should go after him and attempt to sign him to a shorter-term contract. He would be an upgraded stopgap over our current stopgaps.
Man, I don't either.
In Chicago, he has Matt Forte to take all of the pressure off of him. Forte already has broken the 1000 yard mark, and has 7 rushing TDs.
He has Brandon Marshall and Alshon Jeffrey at WR. Both guys are already 1000 yard receivers. He also has a quality TE in Bennett.
In 7+ games, with this talent around him, Cutler threw 13 TD and 8 INT. He threw 3 TD and 2 INT against Minnesota. (Hoyer, the following week, threw 3 and 3) He has largely been an "OK" QB this year. (as he has for most of his career) Speaking of his career, he has also been hurt again ..... as he has many times in his career .....
People say "Oh, you can't compare what Josh McCown has down this year to what Cutler has done", but I see no reason why not. McCown has played 6+ games, and has also thrown 13 TD and only 1 INT. One could argue that he has outplayed Cutler. Cutler has averaged 7.2 yards/pass attempt, and McCown 8.22.
I think that Cutler is a decent, solid QB, but I think that he's probably more a middle of the pack guy than an elite guy. He's kind of like an Alex Smith+ to me. Is he good enough to win a Super Bowl with? I don't know.
The Bears have made the playoffs twice with Cutler at the helm.
In 2010, they had the 9th ranked defense. (4th ranked scoring defense) Their offense was ranked only 30th. (21st in scoring)
Last year the Bears went 10-6. (and missed the playoffs) They had the 5th ranked defense. (3rd in points allowed) Their offense was ranked only 28th, and 16th in points scored. Imagine how the Bears would have done if they had not scored 9 TD on defense, and 1 on special teams.
These are quite pedestrian numbers for a team with an elite QB. The Bears have had great defenses, and have been able to run the ball well. Cutler has still been very average.
Don we want a QB who throws 25 TD and 18 INT?
How about 27 TD and 26 INT?
23 TD to 16 INT?
13 to 7?
19 to 14?
13 to 8?
He is a decent QB, but he throws a lot of INT compared to the number of TD passes he throws. In the 2 seasons in which he has been relied upon most heavily, he threw a combined 52 TD passes, but also a staggering 44 INT. If we want a QB who eliminates mistakes, Cutler is not that guy.
I think that he trusts his arm more than is deserved. He is willing to make any throw on the field, whether that throw is well advised or not.
I dunno. If the front office goes after him, then I will hope that he is the guy so many hope he will be. Frankly I don't want to see us throw a monster contract at him. I don't think that he is a championship level QB.
In the end, I look at Cutler, and Campbell, and Hoyer ........ and I don't know that I see a tremendous advantage of signing Cutler (especially at a premium price) I look at Campbell and Cutler and see capable NFL QBs, but not guys I would invest a ton of cap dollars in.
Maybe I'll be wrong, and maybe Cutler will become a 30/10 type guy wherever he plays next year .... but his track record doesn't make that seem likely.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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The problem is, signing Cutler will require a big $$$, long term deal. It simply isn't worth it.
His back up has better numbers this year. Sure McCown is playing lights out, but if that doesn't tell you the system, coaching and talent there isn't a part in Cutlers somewhat successful stint there, I don't know what will.
Even with a running game, Cutler hasn't played lights out. I just feel some are so desperate for a QB, they'd rather settle for a slight upgrade over Campbell as a short term Band-Aid.
I simply don't see going bonkers over Cutler with a huge, long term investment. And you will have to do that in order to land him.
Fortunately, we don' have to worry about The Browns going after Cutler. I don't believe that Joe Banner would spend that kinda money on a guy you can't get 10 years or more out of.
JMO of course.
I think you are getting a little carried away there. I don't think any front office person really looks beyond maybe a 5 year timeline. Mostly because most contracts are in the 3-5 year range. You don't read about players signing 10 year contracts very often.
What Banner does do is jettison players he feels are nearing the end. Cutler at 31 would fit nicely in to a 5 year plan. Some could argue that Cutler is entering his prime years. QB routinely play well in to their late 30's, in some cases near 40.
If Cutler was 34 right now, I'd agree. Nothing long term. At this point, we would have every reason to believe he could perform at a high level for the duration of the contract.
I'd still look to draft a QB, but maybe not this year. Either way, it wouldn't hurt for a drafted player to sit for 2-3 years before being given much of a real shot at starting. At that point, you let Cutler go or trade him for something. At that point, 3-4 years of solid production would justify the investment and you could structure the deal in a way that the bonus money was written off over the first 3 years of the contract.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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...3-4 years of solid production would justify the investment ...
Most certainly. Something we haven't had in quite a while...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Cutler's been in the league for 8 years and only two of those years has he had a winning season. He's been to the post season only one year, 2010. I know average looks good to us as we've had so many failures but lets not get carried away and start throwing big money at mr average just to get to 7 or 8 wins.
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Cutler's been in the league for 8 years and only two of those years has he had a winning season. He's been to the post season only one year, 2010. I know average looks good to us as we've had so many failures but lets not get carried away and start throwing big money at mr average just to get to 7 or 8 wins.
That pretty much covers it to me. People speak about desperation in the draft? I see such a move as desperation in the FA market to achieve mediocrity at best.
And I think that's part of the problem. Things have gotten so bad, people would be willing to settle for mediocrity.
This isn't anything compared to Denver getting Peyton Manning or Minnesota getting Brett Favre.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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The problem is, signing Cutler will require a big $$$, long term deal. It simply isn't worth it.
His back up has better numbers this year. Sure McCown is playing lights out, but if that doesn't tell you the system, coaching and talent there isn't a part in Cutlers somewhat successful stint there, I don't know what will.
Even with a running game, Cutler hasn't played lights out. I just feel some are so desperate for a QB, they'd rather settle for a slight upgrade over Campbell as a short term Band-Aid.
I simply don't see going bonkers over Cutler with a huge, long term investment. And you will have to do that in order to land him.
Fortunately, we don' have to worry about The Browns going after Cutler. I don't believe that Joe Banner would spend that kinda money on a guy you can't get 10 years or more out of.
JMO of course.
I think you are getting a little carried away there. I don't think any front office person really looks beyond maybe a 5 year timeline. Mostly because most contracts are in the 3-5 year range. You don't read about players signing 10 year contracts very often.
What Banner does do is jettison players he feels are nearing the end. Cutler at 31 would fit nicely in to a 5 year plan. Some could argue that Cutler is entering his prime years. QB routinely play well in to their late 30's, in some cases near 40.
If Cutler was 34 right now, I'd agree. Nothing long term. At this point, we would have every reason to believe he could perform at a high level for the duration of the contract.
I'd still look to draft a QB, but maybe not this year. Either way, it wouldn't hurt for a drafted player to sit for 2-3 years before being given much of a real shot at starting. At that point, you let Cutler go or trade him for something. At that point, 3-4 years of solid production would justify the investment and you could structure the deal in a way that the bonus money was written off over the first 3 years of the contract.
Not carried away at all. I believe that when a team drafts what they hope will be a Franchise QB, the expectations are, we'll pay him what we have to over time, but we'd like to have him for 10 years or more.
No way that Denver drafted Elway thinking 5 years, or Indy drafted Payton Manning thinking 5 years, or Miami drafted Marino with 5 years in mind. That was old timers (Can't believe I just said that) but same is true for Indy drafting Andrew Luck or Washington Drafting RGIII.
But more to the point, look at teams that picked up starters that were either at the midpoint of their careers or beyond, Denver for Manning for instance.
Manning is a guy that I'd pay today for as long as I can get him to perform well. Cutler isn't in the same class. No even close.
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Cutler's been in the league for 8 years and only two of those years has he had a winning season. He's been to the post season only one year, 2010. I know average looks good to us as we've had so many failures but lets not get carried away and start throwing big money at mr average just to get to 7 or 8 wins.
And don't forget, he never had a winning season at Vanderbilt too.
So, since counting college and the pro's, he's had 3 winning records out of 11 completed seasons (I think he had three in Chicago; '10+'11+'12 - games he played/started in).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Cutler_(American_football)#Career_statistics
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Sure McCown is playing lights out, but if that doesn't tell you the system, coaching and talent there isn't a part in Cutlers somewhat successful stint there, I don't know what will.
The Bears have a new coach and new offensive system this year.
I don't understand the thinking of some of you guys on here. Cutler is so much better than what we've trotted out at that position for the past 14 years and we actually have some control of whether or not we can get him (unlike the draft) and guys are poo-pooing the idea of signing him? Yeah he's had injuries in Chicago but it has mainly been because before this year he had a terrible pass-protecting line.
I don't think signing a 31 year old QB keeps us from drafting our future QB IF HE IS THERE WHEN WE PICK, but I do think it keeps us from blowing a pick on a guy just because we have to get one. Cutler is one of the 20-or-so legit QBs in the NFL right now and getting him for just money would be a huge coup for the team, as for too long we've been one of the teams on the outside wishing we could play, too.
Heck, if we sign Cutler, we might start getting some calls, too.
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Yeah he's had injuries in Chicago but it has mainly been because before this year he had a terrible pass-protecting line.
Really? I won't pretend that I have seen every Broncos and Bears game that Cutler has played in, but looking at the numbers, except for one really bad year, he certainly hasn't been sacked more than the average QB, and he often been sacked far less than the average QB.
His 1st season was tough, with 13 sacks in only137 pass attempts.
In his 2nd season he played 16 games and was sacked only 27 times in 497 pass attempts.
In his 3rd year he was sacked only 11 times in a staggering 616 pass attempts. That season he threw 25 TD and 18 INT. He had great protection and did not deliver great results. He was then traded.
In his 4th season, his 1st in Chicago, was sacked 35 times in 555 pass attempts. That's certainly not out of the norm.
In his 5th season he had a rough season, being sacked 52 times in only 432 pass attempts.
In his 6th season he played 10 games and was sacked 23 times in 314 pass attempts.
In his 7th season he was sacked 38 times in 484 pass attempts.
This season he has been sacked only 11 times in 265 pass attempts.
Outside of his 2nd season in Chicago, I don't see horrific pass protection. In fact, he has received pretty good protection at times.
Guys like Peyton Manning and Drew Brees get rid of the ball in a hurry, and are largely responsible for at least half of their own pass protection.
Guys like Philip Rivers have been sacked and hit at least as often as Cutler, if not more often.
Rivers averages over 20 TD/season, and roughly 10 INT per year. Cutler has never reached that 2/1 ratio.
Ben Roethlisberger is the poster child for QB abuse.He has been sacked 383 times in 10 seasons. He has been sacked 40 or more times 5 of his 10 seasons in the NFL. He is almost 2/1 TD to INT.(215/118)
While Cutler has not received top 2 pass protection, I think that he has received solid pass protection in most years. He does have a little bit of Ben Roethlisberger in him, in that he tries to hold the ball far too long, far too frequently. He's not responsible for all of the sacks against him, but I would bet that he is responsible for a fair number of them.
I do think that he was doing a better job this year of getting the ball out more quickly though. It is rather ironic that he has been hurt twice this year, while being sacked only 11 times in 8 games. (groin and high ankle sprain)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't know or care one or the other.
But,since you've got all these stats,how many times was he knocked on ass in his years with Chicago?
How many times have we,the fans of the lowly Browns,posted just how bad the Bears o-line was/is?I believe ours to better at pass pro.
He's had some pretty crappy OC's to work for there in Chicago.I can't this say with any certainty,but I do believe ours is a bit better.
Bad o-line,crappy coaching,new systems and new crappy coaches.You know the same excuses you guys have applied to every piece of crap QB the Browns have trotted out there since the last millennium.So,maybe he isn't that bad.
Oops,didn't read your last post,you answered one of my questions.
Last edited by BCbrownie; 12/14/13 04:02 PM.
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Imagine our "freedom" in the draft too with Cutler as the top guy signed: so many options. We can go BPA, even trade down with our first pick etc. We control the draft without that "having to draft a QB at all costs somewhere in the 1st" cloud hanging over our head.
Well said and makes perfect sense. With the extra picks we accumulated, especially two in the first that neither would have to go toward a QB. We have two in the 1st, one in the 2nd and 2 in the 3rd. If we could use all those on BPA-type players we could take a real leap.
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If it takes 10-20mil/year for Cutler, you still do it, because he impacts the game more.
And I'm with you on this as well. Saving money accomplishes only that, saving money. Spending the money on the most important position on the field accomplishes so much more.
So spend on Cutler, beef up the OL to protect him and improve the run game, get one more WR and a RB for offense. Use the rest of the picks on the D-side.
Get Cutler and a WR and still have a complete draft to work with. That is a dream-like scenario.
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...but looking at the numbers...
:sigh:
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...but looking at the numbers...
:sigh:
Sigh nothing.
We keep track of numbers because they tell us something.
You can say that a guy is a great QB, but if he throws twice as many INT as TD, he's not going to be around for long. The NFL is made up of numbers. We track players stats routinely. Go to any of the major sports sites and you can see which players are playing the best from a statistical standpoint.
Why?
Because stats reflect production, and production matters. (especially at QB)
Now, would you rather try to debate and/or refute my points, or just make snide comments?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't understand the thinking of some of you guys on here. Cutler is so much better than what we've trotted out at that position for the past 14 years and we actually have some control of whether or not we can get him (unlike the draft) and guys are poo-pooing the idea of signing him?
I would hope this FO could draft someone "so much better than what we've trotted out at that position for the past 14 years".
And how much better would he be than say Campbell or Hoyer and at what cost? I really haven't seen this greatness in cutler or his abilities that seem to garner such high regards from some of our posters.
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Yeah he's had injuries in Chicago but it has mainly been because before this year he had a terrible pass-protecting line.
And I believe it has something to do with him holding the ball. While he doesn't hold it as long as say Weeden does, he certainly doesn't deliver it quickly like Peyton or as we saw Hoyer do either.
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I don't think signing a 31 year old QB keeps us from drafting our future QB IF HE IS THERE WHEN WE PICK, but I do think it keeps us from blowing a pick on a guy just because we have to get one.
So you have a feeling since H&H made a desperation pick in Weeden, that this FO will feel some need to do the same? If they do, they get a failing grade too. Going into next season with Campbell, Hoyer and a developmental pick wouldn't be as bad as some make it sound. And I don't see any type of proof that Cutler is such a huge upgrade here.
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Cutler is one of the 20-or-so legit QBs in the NFL right now and getting him for just money would be a huge coup for the team, as for too long we've been one of the teams on the outside wishing we could play, too.
I believe we can compete with Campbell if we had a running game. Given the Bears have Forte', I don't see Cutlerl being a slam dunk here over Campbell.
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Heck, if we sign Cutler, we might start getting some calls, too.
If our team starts winning, then and only then will we get that. without a running game, cutler isn't going to change that. I think people are concentrating on the wrong thing here. We have seen average or above QB play from both Hoyer and Campbell without a running game.
Fix that and we will see more wins with who we have. If that's the only thing you're after. Overvaluing a guy who has had many years to prove his worth without really carrying a team on his back, like top QB's can do, I believe is fools gold.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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...but looking at the numbers...
:sigh:
Sigh nothing.
We keep track of numbers because they tell us something.
You can say that a guy is a great QB, but if he throws twice as many INT as TD, he's not going to be around for long. The NFL is made up of numbers. We track players stats routinely. Go to any of the major sports sites and you can see which players are playing the best from a statistical standpoint.
Why?
Because stats reflect production, and production matters. (especially at QB)
Now, would you rather try to debate and/or refute my points, or just make snide comments?
Unfortunately, your stats really don't tell the whole story. Cutler's done pretty dang well for what's he's had around him.
I spent the last 10 years in Chicago watching Bears games and that oline was absolutely atrocious. I watched Cutler get brutalized for years. C'mon...9 sacks by the Giants in just the 1st half?? Cutler spent most seasons with Chicago either running for his life or laying on his back. Also, if the oline wasn't horrendous, they wouldn't have 4 new starters on it in Trestman's first year. He and Kromer cleaned house there and now they are pretty dang respectable. Cutler actually has a fighting chance now.
We haven't even talked about the amount of offenses he's had to learn. Or the bum receivers he's had for years, or the ineffective OC's he's had. Dude got a raw deal and imo, anyone that thinks Chicago isn't giving Jay a deal, especially with their offense in it's prime, is crazy.
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I think they would be dumb to let him walk if they can manage to keep him under the crap without completely dismantling the team.
Welcome aboard, fanatic. You guys grabbed two of the draft prospects I really liked on the line last year in mills and long, glad they both came along so quickly. Never mind YT's stats regurgitations... He can't help himself.
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I think they would be dumb to let him walk if they can manage to keep him under the crap without completely dismantling the team.
Welcome aboard, fanatic. You guys grabbed two of the draft prospects I really liked on the line last year in mills and long, glad they both came along so quickly. Never mind YT's stats regurgitations... He can't help himself.
Thanks, Clevesteve. I went through all the Browns boards, then lurked here for about 2 weeks and this one really had the best threads by far. Posters here are really very rational. That's hard to find at some boards.
yeah, Long and Mills ended up being great pick ups. I don't know a single Bears fan that isn't stoked about what they have done for the Bears line.
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 31 Bears 38 Cutler
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