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No one is saying stats have no place in a discussion.
But you shouldn't base opinions solely off of them.
Cutler has been getting crushed behind Chicago's terrible lines since he got there.
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...but looking at the numbers...
:sigh:
Sigh nothing.
We keep track of numbers because they tell us something.
You can say that a guy is a great QB, but if he throws twice as many INT as TD, he's not going to be around for long. The NFL is made up of numbers. We track players stats routinely. Go to any of the major sports sites and you can see which players are playing the best from a statistical standpoint.
Why?
Because stats reflect production, and production matters. (especially at QB)
Now, would you rather try to debate and/or refute my points, or just make snide comments?
Unfortunately, your stats really don't tell the whole story. Cutler's done pretty dang well for what's he's had around him.
I spent the last 10 years in Chicago watching Bears games and that oline was absolutely atrocious. I watched Cutler get brutalized for years. C'mon...9 sacks by the Giants in just the 1st half?? Cutler spent most seasons with Chicago either running for his life or laying on his back. Also, if the oline wasn't horrendous, they wouldn't have 4 new starters on it in Trestman's first year. He and Kromer cleaned house there and now they are pretty dang respectable. Cutler actually has a fighting chance now.
We haven't even talked about the amount of offenses he's had to learn. Or the bum receivers he's had for years, or the ineffective OC's he's had. Dude got a raw deal and imo, anyone that thinks Chicago isn't giving Jay a deal, especially with their offense in it's prime, is crazy.
Cutler holds the ball longer than he should. He hasn't been allowed to do that this year, because Trestman has made that a vital part of the offense. Maybe he could improve in that regard, but who can say for sure. Tomorrow will be interesting. QBs making super quick decisions and throws have killed the Browns lately. Tomorrow will tell a great deal as to whether or not Cutler has improved in this regard.
Cutler has had exactly 1 year where he has really been sacked well over the average a QB gets sacked. As Pit stated, he's not a guy who gets the ball out quickly. As I said earlier in this thread, on the post that has people whining about stats .... while he is not Ben Roethlisberger, he does not get the ball out quickly. He never really has.
His OL may not have been perfect, but it also hasn't been horrible. (outside of the 52 sack season) The QB has to contribute to his own protection.
I see your list ,...... "bum receivers" ........ bad OL ..... constantly changing offensive coordinators ...... and that's the list Browns fans use to excuse every failed QB throughout the years.
Cutler had Ron Turner in Chicago for his 1st season. He had Mike Martz for 2010 and 2011. He then had Mike Tice, who was the Bears OL coach under Martz. He has spent 5 years in Chicago, and those were his 1st 4. Trestman took over this year. He has played for some really respected offensive minds.
Our idea of stability here has been having everyone's favorite, Brian Daboll, here for back to back seasons.
As far as his OL, he has had a mix of guys, like many teams have. His OL was truly awful in 2010 when he was sacked 52 times. Other than that I would put them closer to average than awful. Cutler has never been a guy to get the ball out faster than the average QB, yet he has been sacked at roughly what I would consider to be close to league average. They have also been able to consistently run the ball. He has had the ultimate security blanket in Matt Forte by his side for his entire Chicago career.
As far as receivers, he has had a mixed bag, and the team certainly tried too hard to make Devin hester into a full time receiver, but I would certainly rank his receivers well above what we have had in Cleveland. Though, as we have seen, anyone can throw to a guy like Josh Gordon and look good. It's the guys who make those B and C level guys look competent that are the game changers. He had a guy like that in Brandon Marshall last year and this year. He's actually had a pair od game changers in Marshall and jeffrey this year, and his production has been largely unchanged. Last year with those 2 quality receivers, and a top end RB in Forte, and he threw 19 TD and 14 INT. This year with everything in his favor, from OL to receivers, to running game, he has throws 13 TD and 8 INT in 8 games. That is respectable, but hardly overwhelming. I do think that the Bears have relied upon Cutler too much over the years. I think that he could be more successful used as the Niners used Smith in San Francisco. With the defense he has had .... man ... last year he had a defense that scored left and right ..... and great special teams .........
In 2012, his defense and special teams contributed 10 TDs scored. They were also 3rd in points allowed. In 2011 it was 9 TDs scored by the defense and special teams. In 2010 it was only 4, but his defense was ranked 4th in points allowed. . he has had some real advantages throughout his career, but hasn't been able to push a really very good overall team over the brink. He got hurt in his only playoff appearance.
Injuries seem to be the constant in his career. He has also had attitude issues.
As I said earlier ..... I'm not a big Cutler fan. I think that he's a decent QB, but not a guy to throw a massive contract at, and/or buy with heavy duty draft picks. .Others disagree. That's fine. It's the purpose of a discussions board ...... to discuss. That takes 2 sides in most cases.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The problem is, signing Cutler will require a big $$$, long term deal. It simply isn't worth it.
His back up has better numbers this year. Sure McCown is playing lights out, but if that doesn't tell you the system, coaching and talent there isn't a part in Cutlers somewhat successful stint there, I don't know what will.
Even with a running game, Cutler hasn't played lights out. I just feel some are so desperate for a QB, they'd rather settle for a slight upgrade over Campbell as a short term Band-Aid.
I simply don't see going bonkers over Cutler with a huge, long term investment. And you will have to do that in order to land him.
Fortunately, we don' have to worry about The Browns going after Cutler. I don't believe that Joe Banner would spend that kinda money on a guy you can't get 10 years or more out of.
JMO of course.
I think you are getting a little carried away there. I don't think any front office person really looks beyond maybe a 5 year timeline. Mostly because most contracts are in the 3-5 year range. You don't read about players signing 10 year contracts very often.
What Banner does do is jettison players he feels are nearing the end. Cutler at 31 would fit nicely in to a 5 year plan. Some could argue that Cutler is entering his prime years. QB routinely play well in to their late 30's, in some cases near 40.
If Cutler was 34 right now, I'd agree. Nothing long term. At this point, we would have every reason to believe he could perform at a high level for the duration of the contract.
I'd still look to draft a QB, but maybe not this year. Either way, it wouldn't hurt for a drafted player to sit for 2-3 years before being given much of a real shot at starting. At that point, you let Cutler go or trade him for something. At that point, 3-4 years of solid production would justify the investment and you could structure the deal in a way that the bonus money was written off over the first 3 years of the contract.
Not carried away at all. I believe that when a team drafts what they hope will be a Franchise QB, the expectations are, we'll pay him what we have to over time, but we'd like to have him for 10 years or more.
No way that Denver drafted Elway thinking 5 years, or Indy drafted Payton Manning thinking 5 years, or Miami drafted Marino with 5 years in mind. That was old timers (Can't believe I just said that) but same is true for Indy drafting Andrew Luck or Washington Drafting RGIII.
But more to the point, look at teams that picked up starters that were either at the midpoint of their careers or beyond, Denver for Manning for instance.
Manning is a guy that I'd pay today for as long as I can get him to perform well. Cutler isn't in the same class. No even close.
I never said he is a Manning, but he isn't a drafted player either.
You are telling me he can't work in to a 5 year timeline?
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Now, would you rather try to debate and/or refute my points, or just make snide comments?
I'll debate and/or refute your point.
In football, when stats are thrown up in an effort to describe one player they are completely ignoring that there are 10 other players plus several position coaches that all play a vital part as variables in those stats.
With so many variables to consider, how does one place any one player as the one responsible for those numbers?! Attempting to use stats to describe the efforts/success of that one player is leaving out a whole lot of information not contained within them.
That is why I don't believe anyone can judge the effectiveness of one player based on the numbers accumulated while playing "the ultimate team sport".
In golf? Yes. In tennis? Yes. In the batting box? Yes. In bowling? Yes. In chess? Yes. In football? NO.
All those stats, are just numbers after the fact, a way to use numbers to describe what happened. But they do not explain in any way the whys of how they were obtained.
They are not indicative of one player. They are indicative of the team as a whole, (in this case offense), and all the offensive variables that counted in obtaining those stats. If you attempt to use them by taking the variables out of consideration then they are worthless
That's the main problem with using stats to determine the quality of any one player.
Of course, this is all just my opinion. But an accurate one. Which is my opinion too.
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That's fair ....but not really realistic IMO. We, as fans, judge individual players all the time.
We have almost overwhelmingly decided that Weeden is not the answer at QB, even those of us who liked the pick originally, because of the way he has played.
Has he had issues with the OL early on, and with receivers dropping passes and running routes (most likely) incorrectly? Sure. However, despite those problems, he appears to be a guy who is not the answer at QB for this team. He runs hot and cold, and unfortunately, when he gets cold, he gets freezing cold. Almost all of us, the fans, have all made up our minds about Weeden as a player, even though there is some disagreement as to whether or not he can be a successful backup or not.
We look at a player like Little. here is a guy who works hard, who blocks like an OL, and who is, by all accounts, a good teammate. However, his proclivity for dropping passes has hurt him. We' the fans,see that, and we make our decisions as to whether or not we see him being a big part of this team next year ...... or a part of the team at all.
We make decisions regarding how we see players all the time. Stats do play a part in that. In fact, stats play a huge part in football, especially for players in positions like QBs, WRs, and RBs. We look at the completion percentages of QBs. Why? Because below a certain level makes it unlikely that a QB will succeed ... regardless of who is playing around him, especially when looking at a longer term. We look at the RB position, and want and expect a guy to average at least 4 yards/carry. Less than that is really disappointing. We look at YAC for receivers. We look at sacks for pass rushers. A guy like Kruger is deemed a disappointment for some because he doesn't have enough sacks, even though he is playing a very compete game at OLB against both the run and pass.
Stats play a big part of the fan experience in the NFL:. Stats do not tell a complete story, but to pretend that they do not say anything about the player(s) in question is really not realistic IMHO. Sometimes a player with a long track record may have an off year, statistically ..... like Tom Brady this year.. In his case, we can look at the causes for the drop off, and see that he lost his top 5 receivers from last year. There is a reason for his performance (stats) to have dropped off. However, if a guy has played 5 years in the NFL and has consistently performed at a certain level, (stats) then odds are that he will probably continue at that type of level, or maybe even drop off slightly. His stats are, largely, his performance.
I dislike the war on stats that some have declared, as if the numbers a player puts u don't matter at all. Ridiculous. If a QB throws 5 TD and 30 INT for the year, a statistical examination, then he is probably going to have a hard time holding on to his job. There may be reasons for such a performance, at least in part, but if a guy is that bad his help alone probably didn;t get him there. Players tend to even out statistically over the course of a season. Tom Brady started out rough, with 9 TD and 6 INT through his 1st half of the season. However, his track record bought him more time, and the understanding that his young receivers were probably a major factor. Another QB might not get that same consideration. Now, after 13 games, Brady has thrown 21 TD and has only 8 INT. That is beginning to look more like a Brady year, despite the fact that he has youth and inexperience all around him.
I understand what you are trying to say. (I think) Football is definitely a team game, however within that team scheme are individual performances that can be, and on the professional (the NFL team) side of things, have to be appraised and evaluated on an individual basis. I think that we, as fans, also try to do this. We may not always be successful, but that is part of the fun of being a fan.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I still believe what people aren't looking at is how Cutler has had one of the leagues best RB's and still his numbers really aren't much better than Campbell's.
Matt Flynn had a couple of good games and received a three year deal with incentives that reached close to 29 million dollars.
Manning has a contract with Denver for five years at 96 million dollars. That coming off of a very serious neck injury.
I doubt you could get Cutler for less than a four year 60 million dollar deal.
Now if I thought he was the kind of QB who could lead us to a SB, then that's one thing. But I've seen nothing to indicate he can.
The stats YTown are using, only enforce what I have seen. Cutler has a big arm that wows many, yet is streaky and inconsistent over the course of a season.
Say what you will, but he has had Forte', Jeffreys and Marshal this season, along with a much improved OL and his stats are less than optimum.
While stats alone don't tell the story, looking at his play do. His highlight reels are not indicative of the overall picture here. And actually, this inconsistent system argument that's being made, also holds true for Campbell.
I simply haven't seen anything from cutler to believe he's that much of an upgrade over Campbell.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I doubt you could get Cutler for less than a four year 60 million dollar deal.
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I simply haven't seen anything from cutler to believe he's that much of an upgrade over Campbell.
Pit, that doesn't even make sense in the same post.
Most in the league see Campbell as no more than a good backup or a place-holder at best. Most in the league see Cuter as one of the top QBs in football. You see the same as witnessed by your own figures on the kind of contract it would take to sign him. No one, not even you, would consider Campbell at those contract numbers but you do see Cutler there.
So to say that Cutler wouldn't be much of an upgrade over Campbell is puzzling.
Now I realize that you would not advocate paying Cutler that kind of money but at the same time you do see it requiring that kind of money to sign him.
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Cutler as one of the top QBs in the league? Man, I don't see that.
I see him as slightly above the middle of the pack, but not a special QB like a Peyton Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Wilson, Luck, Rivers, Stafford, Roethlisberger, Newton, or any of the other top QBs in the NFL. Heck, I'd take Eli Manning, (in most season) Matt Ryan, Tony Romo, and maybe even Alex Smith ahead of Cutler. (and I'm not a big Alex Smith fan)
I look at Cutler and just don't see a special player. I see him as a fairly average guy.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Cutler as one of the top QBs in the league? Man, I don't see that.
I see him as slightly above the middle of the pack, but not a special QB like a Peyton Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Wilson, Luck, Rivers, Stafford, Roethlisberger, Newton, or any of the other top QBs in the NFL. Heck, I'd take Eli Manning, (in most season) Matt Ryan, Tony Romo, and maybe even Alex Smith ahead of Cutler. (and I'm not a big Alex Smith fan)
I look at Cutler and just don't see a special player. I see him as a fairly average guy.
I'll tend to agree with you. I do love his physical tools, just think there is something missing in his game to get to the next level.
Now you would put him head and shoulders above the bums: Campbell & Weeden right?
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Cutler as one of the top QBs in the league? Man, I don't see that.
I see him as slightly above the middle of the pack, but not a special QB like a Peyton Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Wilson, Luck, Rivers, Stafford, Roethlisberger, Newton, or any of the other top QBs in the NFL. Heck, I'd take Eli Manning, (in most season) Matt Ryan, Tony Romo, and maybe even Alex Smith ahead of Cutler. (and I'm not a big Alex Smith fan)
I look at Cutler and just don't see a special player. I see him as a fairly average guy.
I'll tend to agree with you. I do love his physical tools, just think there is something missing in his game to get to the next level.
Now you would put him head and shoulders above the bums: Campbell & Weeden right?
I would definitely put him way ahead of Weeden and ahead of Campbell. That still doesn't mean that he's a great QB, or that I would put him above maybe middle of the NFL. He has strengths, but he has a lot of weaknesses too. I just don't want to see us fall into the trap of grabbing a guy just because he is better than what we have. I want a guy, especially at QB, who can win a Championship. I don't think that's Cutler.
Man, I am watching the Steelers just drive the field ..... runs ..... sharp passes ...... and I just wonder when we'll see that from a Cleveland Browns team. At halftime that announcers asked how the Steelers do this to a far superior (record-wise) Bengals team, and they used the term "mentally weak" in referring to the Bengals. I think that's true. I also think that it applies to us. However, I also feel that the Steelers trust that they can win games, and we don't yet. We are still in the stage of hoping we can win, especially when bad stuff happens. There is no guarantee we get there. Same for the Bengals.
I look at the Seahawks, and they never collapse, no matter how far down they get. This trait is missing with the Bengals, and with us.
I do think that the QB spot is a huge key, but i don't know if Cutler is that guy to create a "mentally strong" environment. He gets sloppy with the ball far too often, holds the ball too long, too often, and I think that he would get chewed up playing the physical Steelers and Ravens defenses twice a year. (plus the fact that the Bengals always play us close, and generally get after us good on defense at least once per year)
I think that Cutler has very good physical tools, and if physical tools alone would make a great QB, then Cutler would be one of the 1st QBs I would take. However, the mental/emotional side is why I put him closer to the middle of the league, instead of seeing him as a top starter.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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My attitude is if you don't have QB play as good as Cutler offers, then you get Cutler. He is the best proven vet out there by a large degree. He would start for more NFL team then not IMO.
Get him....and draft a QB if we feel the need. I would feel pretty darn good with Cutler and Hoyer and some developmental QB in the fold and use our draft picks on receivers, O-linemen, LBers,DBs., RB's.
One thing people need to remember. Franchise QBs are tested on the field. Not drafted. Campbell was somebodys "franchise" qb at one time. Might be able to say the same for Weeden. Lot's of "franchise QB's" have been drafted that never became the face of a franchise.
JMO
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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YT, I would recommend not engaging that Bengals troll. Dude is a huge turd.
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Is Cutler a truly "elite" QB?...possibly. Is he a "franchise" QB?...likely. Do we have an elite or franchise QB?...no. I would suggest that he would have to be seriously considered...
Ok, I have to ask a question.. if every team needs a franchise QB, and Jay Cutler is allegedly a franchise QB, and if teams just don't let franchise QBs go... then why is Cutler looking for his 3rd team in 8 years?
Why did the Broncos let him go after 3 years when their best option was Kyle Orton? Why would the Bears let him go when their best option is well-traveled journeyman Josh McCown?
Jay Cutler is probably an upgrade over what we have (considering Hoyer is still such a big ????)... but I don't see him as what the Browns need in order to set this franchise up for the long term. Sure, we could use all of our high draft picks this year and hopefully solidify 3 or 4 positions for the future, but that gets us to 9 wins unless we find the right QB....
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My attitude is if you don't have QB play as good as Cutler offers, then you get Cutler. He is the best proven vet out there by a large degree. He would start for more NFL team then not IMO.
Get him....and draft a QB if we feel the need. I would feel pretty darn good with Cutler and Hoyer and some developmental QB in the fold and use our draft picks on receivers, O-linemen, LBers,DBs., RB's.
This is where I am as well. Although DC raises a good point too about Cutler soon to be on his third team.
To be honest I don't think we are going to have to worry about it as I don't see Cutler in the mix for this FO.
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My attitude is if you don't have QB play as good as Cutler offers, then you get Cutler. He is the best proven vet out there by a large degree. He would start for more NFL team then not IMO.
Get him....and draft a QB if we feel the need. I would feel pretty darn good with Cutler and Hoyer and some developmental QB in the fold and use our draft picks on receivers, O-linemen, LBers,DBs., RB's.
This is where I am as well. Although DC raises a good point too about Cutler soon to be on his third team.
To be honest I don't think we are going to have to worry about it as I don't see Cutler in the mix for this FO.
I don't either. I think they feel good enough about Hoyer to go along with an obvious draft choice to not worry about signing a guy in FA. Hoyer doubles as a guy who can start and also mentor (if that even happens) a young QB.
Signing a QB in FA and then going on to do great things is a rare thing in the NFL. I think we should stick to the route that most teams have, and just develop our own guy.
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The only issue I see with that plan ... And I really like Hoyer ... Is it's going to take a special player at QB to change the culture here. The culture is really bad. 10 of the last 11 seasons of double digit losses. That is mind boggling.
Can Hoyer be that? I wouldn't bet on it. This team lays down every time there is adversity. That's a culture of losing mentality. Its going to take a special player at QB and coach to flip that mindset...people that don't like to lose and give the entire team confidence that they won't.
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That's a good point, but you have to admit..........that this team played w/a tremendous amount of energy when Hoyer was in the line-up. It seemed like the guy infused life into the team.
I am not saying that would translate into a long-term thing, but the spark he brought to the team was very evident.
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I agree with you on Hoyer, and I am a big fan of him. Been saying it since preseason game #4. Although it was against inferior comp he demonstrated he understood how to play the position.
I just don't know if I would bet on him being the ultimate guy. Got to see more.
But I loved the way the team responded to him. You could tell they felt like they had a chance to win with him at QB.
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Good game yesterday, folks. Haven't seen an update on Haden yet this morning so I hope all is well!!
In response to DC and Rishuz, what makes you guys think Chicago is going to let Cutler walk?
While his game wasn't mistake free by any means, he still ended up with a win and a 102 QBR. Chicago's cap isn't out of control. While I don't see them offering a Romo contract, I sure don't see Cutler asking for it either.
The one people should really be questioning is Peppers. With an $18M cap hit next year and low production this year, he may be toast.
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The only issue I see with that plan ... And I really like Hoyer ... Is it's going to take a special player at QB to change the culture here. The culture is really bad. 10 of the last 11 seasons of double digit losses. That is mind boggling.
Can Hoyer be that? I wouldn't bet on it. This team lays down every time there is adversity. That's a culture of losing mentality. Its going to take a special player at QB and coach to flip that mindset...people that don't like to lose and give the entire team confidence that they won't.
I don't think Hoyer is, but Hoyer has the attitude that we need. I don't think he has all the tools that is needed. He's sat behind Brady in that organization and sees how you have to conduct yourself, especially as the quarterback. I thought his body language and the way he handled himself in interviews was that of someone who gets it.
He led the team on a game winning drive on the road in his first start as a Brown. More than anything, look at the way the team was playing around him... The defense looked great, the offense looked productive, He got everyone involved.
I want that kind of attitude around the team more.
What I'm tired of hearing is how they are tired of losing. Stop talking about it and play like you're sick of losing. Use that as an edge, instead of a crutch.
It's the same crap. We don't get off to a good start, we get a little momentum only to come out and crap ourselves (Detroit game), we go back into the hole, only to come up with a nice win, and when it's time to take the next step, they have the Cincinnati game.
Guaranteed if we win one of these next 2 some of these guys will say "this was for the fans" and that's another phrase I'm sick of hearing, as a fan. How about winning for each other and doing it when it matters?
Rinse, repeat.
I think the eye test is huge for quarterbacks. Just ask yourself if you can see said person on the stage in the middle of the Superdome or the Rose Bowl or wherever holding the Lombardi...
Hoyer? Nah. But he might be able to help a young guy who's a bit more gifted.
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My attitude is if you don't have QB play as good as Cutler offers, then you get Cutler. He is the best proven vet out there by a large degree. He would start for more NFL team then not IMO.
Get him....and draft a QB if we feel the need. I would feel pretty darn good with Cutler and Hoyer and some developmental QB in the fold and use our draft picks on receivers, O-linemen, LBers,DBs., RB's.
I would be ok with that plan as long as Cutler is reasonable in his demands... I am absolutely not comfortable signing him to some 6 year $100 million contract...
I like Hoyer, he has something few of our other QBs have had and it sparked this team.. maybe it's the same thing Holcomb had, he came in for Couch and provided a nice spark and the whole team seemed to play better.. DA had it when he came in for Frye.... neither of them were able to sustain it... who knows, maybe Hoyer can but it would be very risky if that was your only plan.
On paper, Cutler/Hoyer/2nd round pick QB seems like a good way to go for a couple years and you just hope that one of them rises to the top and takes command of the position... but we've been in that position many times... and the results are well documented.. Then again, we've tried it every way imaginable and it hasn't worked yet so... I just don't know, I guess we have no choice but to keep trying until SOMEBODY steps up and takes command of the spot 
yebat' Putin
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My attitude is if you don't have QB play as good as Cutler offers, then you get Cutler. He is the best proven vet out there by a large degree. He would start for more NFL team then not IMO.
Get him....and draft a QB if we feel the need. I would feel pretty darn good with Cutler and Hoyer and some developmental QB in the fold and use our draft picks on receivers, O-linemen, LBers,DBs., RB's.
One thing people need to remember. Franchise QBs are tested on the field. Not drafted. Campbell was somebodys "franchise" qb at one time. Might be able to say the same for Weeden. Lot's of "franchise QB's" have been drafted that never became the face of a franchise.
JMO
The only problem is that you can't just continuously go buy "better" guys. If you do, when you find a great player you either won't have money to go get him, or to keep him.
We don't need great players at every position. No team has that. However, we do need to find a great QB if we want to compete for a championship. (and that should be our goal, and the reason behind every move we make)
I don't like the idea of adding an expensive guy to play the bridge role. A guy like Cutler would demand a huge contract .... and I don't want to limit our future by burdening us with a huge contract.
I get that Cutler would be an upgrade. However, I don't think that he would be a great QB for us, and I worry that he would be just good enough to get us to .500, and just bad enough to keep us there. If that is the case, then I don't want him standing in the way of another QB who might be better. (and maybe we "luck into" a guy .... maybe Hoyer, or a guy who becomes a "Hoyer +", if we don't have a middle of the road placeholder in the way)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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JC When any defense leaves gaping holes and etc in the middle, then any QB going to find them. Game after game and it's the same thing, opposing QB's attack the middle and eat us up. But eh, no need to try to correct anything  Cutler did look rusty. Many of his throws were high balls.
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Signing a QB in FA and then going on to do great things is a rare thing in the NFL. I think we should stick to the route that most teams have, and just develop our own guy.
True enough, but until you really find the guy who can do all the great things, it's nice to have a guy who can consistently do good things.
Maybe he isn't on the teams radar, some seem to think not. My only point is you don't just go out and find a franchise QB...lot's of things can go wrong. If you can get a guy like Cutler...a solid player with a proven record, something we haven't had in a long time, it is foolish to say you don't want that and keep clinging to the notion that anybody we draft is going to be a real franchise QB in this leage.
You do realize most teams don't have a franchise QB, right?
To me it isn't a title. It is the way they play, and lots of these guys don't play any better than Cutler.
JMO
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Signing a QB in FA and then going on to do great things is a rare thing in the NFL. I think we should stick to the route that most teams have, and just develop our own guy.
True enough, but until you really find the guy who can do all the great things, it's nice to have a guy who can consistently do good things.
Maybe he isn't on the teams radar, some seem to think not. My only point is you don't just go out and find a franchise QB...lot's of things can go wrong. If you can get a guy like Cutler...a solid player with a proven record, something we haven't had in a long time, it is foolish to say you don't want that and keep clinging to the notion that anybody we draft is going to be a real franchise QB in this leage.
You do realize most teams don't have a franchise QB, right?
To me it isn't a title. It is the way they play, and lots of these guys don't play any better than Cutler.
JMO
Yes, I do realize most teams don't have a franchise QB. In fact, I mentioned it last week that half the league is looking for a QB....
Are we sure he's a franchise QB? I understand he has the big arm and he was drafted high, but he's been in the league 7 completed seasons and he has one playoff win and a ton of injuries to show for it. I'm not a big stats guy, but he's never really been high in any of the usual QB stats other than one of the years he was in Denver. He is high in picks as well, a lot. He throws a ton of picks.
I'm not against signing him, but if I had to choose between signing Cutler and drafting a guy in the first round, I'm drafting a guy, and I'm not hesitating on the decision one bit.
If you want a QB for the sake of an upgrade, that's understandable, but I think the term "franchise QB" is being thrown around quite loosely.
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I almost laugh out of control at anyone that thinks Cutler would even consider a FA contract here. He'll look at the oline protection, run blocking, and the extrordanary amount QB injuries we've sustained just this year let alone previous years. Top that off with our current RB situation, the perpetual revolving door in the FO & coaching, and add a huge dose of mad Clev. fans booing him before he even walks out on the field. He'll probably go somewhere else, even if it's for fewer years and less money.
Never say never, but I still must laugh at the thought that some would think he'd even consider coming here.
A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.
– Jackie Robinson
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I almost laugh out of control at anyone that thinks Cutler would even consider a FA contract here. He'll look at the oline protection, run blocking, and the extrordanary amount QB injuries we've sustained just this year let alone previous years. Top that off with our current RB situation, the perpetual revolving door in the FO & coaching, and add a huge dose of mad Clev. fans booing him before he even walks out on the field. He'll probably go somewhere else, even if it's for fewer years and less money.
Never say never, but I still must laugh at the thought that some would think he'd even consider coming here.
especially after he just ripped our defense, he know probably thinks he's gonna have to score a TD everytime cause our D definitely isn't performing like a #7 ranked D.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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I almost laugh out of control at anyone that thinks Cutler would even consider a FA contract here. He'll look at the oline protection, run blocking, and the extrordanary amount QB injuries we've sustained just this year let alone previous years. Top that off with our current RB situation, the perpetual revolving door in the FO & coaching, and add a huge dose of mad Clev. fans booing him before he even walks out on the field. He'll probably go somewhere else, even if it's for fewer years and less money.
Never say never, but I still must laugh at the thought that some would think he'd even consider coming here.
especially after he just ripped our defense, he know probably thinks he's gonna have to score a TD everytime cause our D definitely isn't performing like a #7 ranked D.
We're #8 in yardage for the same reasons we're the #22 Scoring Defense... lots of short fields.
I's just one more example of why you should never look at just yardage to evaluate/rank a defense. Points is what really matters.
To the topic - I hope you're right, Spiral.... anything that helps keep Cutler out of Cleveland is a good thing.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I almost laugh out of control at anyone that thinks Cutler would even consider a FA contract here. He'll look at the oline protection, run blocking, and the extrordanary amount QB injuries we've sustained just this year let alone previous years. Top that off with our current RB situation, the perpetual revolving door in the FO & coaching, and add a huge dose of mad Clev. fans booing him before he even walks out on the field. He'll probably go somewhere else, even if it's for fewer years and less money.
Never say never, but I still must laugh at the thought that some would think he'd even consider coming here.
Then where is he going to go? I'm just asking because is it going to be that much better with the Jets or the Bills? The Raiders or the Jaguars? The Vikings?
Jet's fans will rip him apart, Jaguars fans don't really care, none of them have a defense rated as highly as ours.. None of the teams that might be willing to pay him the money jump off the page as "ready to win now" any more than ours...
yebat' Putin
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Cutler is much tougher and far better then anyone we have now, or will have next year. He'd be a great addition here. he just isn't going to be looking at Clev. in FA. LOL
Also, It's not the defense he'd be worried about. The offense is, well, offensive!
Why jump all over our defense because they are shutting down late in games while playing hard and fast with no backup talent to speak of to give starters a breather. Just look at the depth on defense, it isn't there. They are all playing for the draft day Super Bowl, and the FO is more then happy about it.
A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.
– Jackie Robinson
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I almost laugh out of control at anyone that thinks Cutler would even consider a FA contract here. He'll look at the oline protection, run blocking, and the extrordanary amount QB injuries we've sustained just this year let alone previous years. Top that off with our current RB situation, the perpetual revolving door in the FO & coaching, and add a huge dose of mad Clev. fans booing him before he even walks out on the field. He'll probably go somewhere else, even if it's for fewer years and less money.
Never say never, but I still must laugh at the thought that some would think he'd even consider coming here.
Then where is he going to go? ..
Stop making me laugh DC....Not here.
A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.
– Jackie Robinson
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Cutler is much tougher and far better then anyone we have now, or will have next year. He'd be a great addition here.
I disagree. He may be somewhat better, but I think the bottom-line improvement that we would see would be marginal, at best.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Stop making me laugh DC....Not here.
That's a non-answer... if you say he won't come here because of this lack of talent, then where is he going to go?
Where is he going to go where he will get better blind side protection than Joe Thomas? Where is he going to go with a better WR than Josh Gordon? Where is he going to go with a better TE than Cameron Jordan?
Are we great? Heck no, but of the teams looking for a QB, who offers a better opportunity? And for the record, I'm not saying there aren't some... you could make a case for the Jets, you could make a case for the Rams if they are done with Bradford... there are cases to be made for a number of teams but I do NOT think they should be in the running and we are some laughing stock out of all the possibilities.
yebat' Putin
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No situation is going to be perfect.
What about Houston? For one, can they afford him? Even teams that don't have QB's, may have cap problems that could keep them away...
Houston would be interesting, but wow would the pressure be on immediately. That team is ready to win now. They're not building like we are, they're pretty much ready to take the next step.
Their situation is better than the Browns, but the Browns situation for an incoming QB isn't horrible. It's the position that's held us back. Factor in that they have 5 picks in the top 100 and could possibly go skill position in heavy, that could be enticing for a QB....
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Stop making me laugh DC....Not here.
That's a non-answer... if you say he won't come here because of this lack of talent, then where is he going to go?
 Sorry to break up your little dream world DC. I really don't know, but It's laughable to think he'd even consider here.
He probably stays in ChiTown, maybe a franchise tag, or possibly a new deal. Maybe he follows Shanahan to a team. But as it stands right now, Clev. won't be on his short list, I know that.
A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.
– Jackie Robinson
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Cutler is much tougher and far better then anyone we have now, or will have next year. He'd be a great addition here.
I disagree. He may be somewhat better, but I think the bottom-line improvement that we would see would be marginal, at best.
At Best?? LOL, even Tim Tebow would give us marginal improvement 
A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.
– Jackie Robinson
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Cutler is much tougher and far better then anyone we have now, or will have next year. He'd be a great addition here.
I disagree. He may be somewhat better, but I think the bottom-line improvement that we would see would be marginal, at best.
At Best?? LOL, even Tim Tebow would give us marginal improvement
Yeah, now you're not even remotely credible with what you're spewing.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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This...
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I doubt you could get Cutler for less than a four year 60 million dollar deal.
Then this...
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I simply haven't seen anything from cutler to believe he's that much of an upgrade over Campbell.
Pit, that doesn't even make sense in the same post.
Most in the league see Campbell as no more than a good backup or a place-holder at best. Most in the league see Cuter as one of the top QBs in football. You see the same as witnessed by your own figures on the kind of contract it would take to sign him. No one, not even you, would consider Campbell at those contract numbers but you do see Cutler there.
So to say that Cutler wouldn't be much of an upgrade over Campbell is puzzling.
Now I realize that you would not advocate paying Cutler that kind of money but at the same time you do see it requiring that kind of money to sign him.
What I see is someone with a much stronger arm than Campbell. I see a position that's in demand where many teams will be willing to over pay.
Is he an upgrade over Campbell? Yes I believe he is. But as DC has mentioned, he's on his third team when their options really weren't very impressive.
I just don't see Cutler as a SB type QB. Someone who may get you to the playoffs every couple of years or so, but in the end will always end up leaving you short.
Do I think our record would be better? Yes. Do I think Cutler may be a powder keg when things go south? Yes.
I believe someone will vastly over pay for someone that falls well short of what they hope to get out of Cutler. I just don't want that someone to be us.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I still believe what people aren't looking at is how Cutler has had one of the leagues best RB's and still his numbers really aren't much better than Campbell's. Sorry just browsed I think I know what this debate is about. But just by that statement there Pit...sorry you lost what ever debate you are in. Probably their stats are close but for some reason I think Cutler has a crap load more TDs. As far as what kind of QB they are one is actually a QB. I think Cutler here in our Oh with our weapons and or growing youth. We have a shot at going deep in the playoffs. Deeper then he with Chicago.
We'll find our RB that won't be a hard task...actually I'd like to get more looks at this kid Baker. The few reps he got he looks much better than anything we've seen so far this season. Our OL is better our Defense is better. The 3rd down stuff will get fixed.
But to compare Cutler to Campbell??? cause their stats are similar.
Thats like guys who were comparing Weeden's rookie stats with Payton Manning last season and saying well they are in the same league. Heck Josh McCown is better than Campbell.
Sometimes I wonder what exactly do you guys see. Cutler puts so many of his passes Right on the MONEY to get the ultimate YAC - Cutler actually goes through progressions - Cutler actually looks off a Safety...my goodness how can there be a debate about this - Cutler is the real deal. Actually this is the best offense he has been in Trestman is as advertised.
This might be the first time Cutler doesn't have to do everything himself with a horrendous OL.
JMHO - yes if he goes FA it will cost a lot of money that is for sure. I would love to have him here. We should be so lucky which basically means it won't happen cause we just are not that lucky...lol 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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When we have two really graet WR's instead of one and a RB the quality of Matt Forte', maybe we can revisit this.  As of now, Cutler has a much better supporting cast than we can give him. And in case you missed it, josh McCown played better than Cutler with that same supporting cast.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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