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In general it's hard to tell when Josh is going full speed, but those balls were poorly placed.
Some were, but most were catchable. Not easy catches, but balls that Gordon could, and should come down with. His hands engulf a football, and if he gets one hand on the ball, I think that he would agree that he should catch it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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In general it's hard to tell when Josh is going full speed, but those balls were poorly placed.
Some were, but most were catchable. Not easy catches, but balls that Gordon could, and should come down with. His hands engulf a football, and if he gets one hand on the ball, I think that he would agree that he should catch it.
not saying he didn't have a bad game.
but one hand on the ball means the WR should've caught it? so we are expecting miracle plays out of our WR corp now?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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I had to listen to much of the game rather than watch, but there were several times the announcers talked of catchable balls, and not just with Bess. Gordon was specifically mentioned.
IMO Campbell did not have a great game, but he was not god-awful, either. Cutler did not look like a significant upgrade to me. He also had a much more effective running game. Also a defense that did not totally collapse.
Two more games to go for evaluation. JC has played a couple good to very good, one or two mediocre, and a couple bad games with injured ribs.
Almost any QB can have two or three very good games, or very bad ones. It's what they do fairly consistently, and how consistent they are, that counts.
In Cleveland, one below average outing gets you thrown to the wolves. Hoyer just never got the chance to have a bad day, and when he does, we will eat him alive just like the previous 40-something Qb's we've had here.
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j/c:
I don't agree w/the one hand on the ball thing. It was plainly visible that Gordon "slowed down" on 3 or 4 routes.
With that said, there was traffic on all of those attempts. Perhaps his body was aching from the car accident and he was afraid of contact? I don't know. Wonder why he wasn't driving his own vehicle?
I do want to reiterate that I am not saying JC was fantastic the other day. He wasn't. But, I think it's wrong to put so much of the blame on him. His receivers played soft. Very soft. It was disturbing.
Did anyone else notice that the cold weather bothered our players a lot more than it did Chicago's?
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FWIW, he was asked about it and said it didn't play into his performance. But then, what would you expect him to say.
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j/c:
I don't agree w/the one hand on the ball thing. It was plainly visible that Gordon "slowed down" on 3 or 4 routes.
With that said, there was traffic on all of those attempts. Perhaps his body was aching from the car accident and he was afraid of contact? I don't know. Wonder why he wasn't driving his own vehicle?
I do want to reiterate that I am not saying JC was fantastic the other day. He wasn't. But, I think it's wrong to put so much of the blame on him. His receivers played soft. Very soft. It was disturbing.
Did anyone else notice that the cold weather bothered our players a lot more than it did Chicago's?
that pissed me off, cause this is cleveland! its the same weather, and most of these players have been here a while.
the whole team just wasn't into it on sunday. honestly, i was suprised we even had the lead and made it interesting. it seemed like the defense was more into it, but, we just got outplayed at the end.
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Not trying to defend drops, but on at least two of those ones Gordon dropped over the middle he was completely left out to dry.
That safety was just waiting there to crush him. No excuse to drop it, but can definitely see instincts kicking in to protect yourself.
People always brought that up with Weeden and McCoy as a reason WRs dropped so many balls. Definitely saw that on Sunday.
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Campbell did not stink yesterday. His WRs played like crap. Nah he stunk...those are the glasses you wish to wear...blame it on the WRs.
I see you were swayed by your friends...Nah...play of the Campbell was dreadful the WRs were not great but does that have anything to do with Campbell. How many times were the WRs open and he just totally ignored them as he locked onto the wrong guy.
I know you are debating me but you have a tendency to glom what others say onto me as if it has anything to do with my logic. I never said anything in comparison with Gordon to Moss or Rice.
I never said anything about Campbell being our starter after his first couple of games.
I understand the part that Hoyer played just two games. But he was the only QB who made progressions...mind you not so much the first game. First game he made pre snap reads and got rid of the ball within 2 seconds which was such a relief after watching like 18 games of Weeden. You called it on the money day one in his first start about holding onto the ball. I held onto the premise he was going to progress especially after we got Turner as our OC...I guess in a way I'm like Weeden holding on too long 
But my quick review of Hoyer is not from hope or orange glasses. Its like when something is right you know it right away. His view of the field was excellent - is arm is average. His accuracy is above average. His footwork is very good. This wasn't just lucky stuff. There are a lot of games you will see a QB and come out of it with Maybe good got to see more. Then there are games all you got to do is see him once and you just know. His leadership skills were better. The O n D believed in him more not words but you can see they were really excited. He made everyone around him better.
More than likely we are going to draft a QB and draft one high (first round) - if we did not then I would like to see a SHORT competition similar to what we saw this season with Weeden always taking the snaps with the #1. Unless Hoyer has some lingering effects of the injury the competition has already been completed. It means volumes to me when the coaches decided to leap frog Campbell and made Hoyer the starting QB. This isn't about me be excited about a home town boy...like the articles made by the Bozo who viewed Campbell as the better QB due to STATS and summarize that it must be cause he's a home town boy...nah cause he showed to be a QB who gets it. Campbell doesn't get it.
Back to the WR vs. QB thingy. One thought - and it is sewn in with the fact that Campbell locks in on one come heck or high water. Just for argument sake - lets say a WR has a 15 yard out...and the DB has it played perfect and has the out pattern cut off as he chose out instead of inside. So they cut off their routes. Not Campbell he goes and throws the out route anyways I see many times he throws it away. Is this the WRs fault or Campbell. I know as a coach you hate the words and deed of "QUITTING" on a route. But Campbell just has no reason to continue with that option NONE AT ALL. If anything he can back shoulder...throw the ball at the WR instead of the out.
Exactly also what I was referring to prior on the sideline Go route that Gordon made...the DB had a 3 yard cushion and running at full speed cutting Gordon off to the ROUTE...yes he gave up on it and I think the result was a INT as the guy who had the route was the DB. Its not like Campbell mind you is going through progressions and in a split second decides let me throw the out or let me toss it up to Gordon and then just turns and throws without really assessing the defense on it. This is Campbell from the Snap till the throw LOCKING in on the WR knowing full well unless he is blind that the route is cut off - immediately he should go through progressions, as long as he has time if time is running out hit the check down - not the predetermined check down which you know Campbell is going to as soon as the snap is made...but the improvised check down which Cameron or Ogb is open as they are chip blocking and after 2 seconds take off to the flat almost always wide open.
But Campbell still locks on and throws it - now is this the WR making Campbell look bad or Campbell making the WR look bad. Same action but you n I have a different view. 
Thank you for the discussion as always JMHO
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Nah he stunk...those are the glasses you wish to wear...blame it on the WRs.
I see you were swayed by your friends...Nah...play of the Campbell was dreadful the WRs were not great but does that have anything to do with Campbell. How many times were the WRs open and he just totally ignored them as he locked onto the wrong guy
Perhaps this is why no one responds to you?
I saw what I saw.
I am not saying JC played great. He made some mistakes. However, the receivers wussed out on several occasions.
I saw that.
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Evidently he was with his High School QB, who came up to visit, and who was driving his vehicle.
Who knows why? Maybe the guy had never driven a Range Rover, and wanted to do so ..... and like many drivers of fancy 4x4 vehicles, thought that 4 wheel drive means that he can go, and stop, on anything.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Perhaps this is why no one responds to you?
Pot meet kettle 
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Nah he stunk...those are the glasses you wish to wear...blame it on the WRs.
I see you were swayed by your friends...Nah...play of the Campbell was dreadful the WRs were not great but does that have anything to do with Campbell. How many times were the WRs open and he just totally ignored them as he locked onto the wrong guy
Perhaps this is why no one responds to you?
I saw what I saw.
I am not saying JC played great. He made some mistakes. However, the receivers wussed out on several occasions.
I saw that.
I'm not going back into the waters of Campbell v. Hoyer. It's nearing the point of two little kids sticking their tongues out going "UH HUH!"  "NUH UH!" But to the receivers, I didn't watch the game, only highlights. I saw a bad INT by Campbell on the pass to Cameron I think it was. On the Little INT it's obvious Little ran the wrong route, something he's done far too much of since his time here. I don't even know what route he was thinking of, as when he made his cut not only did he not move away from his primary coverage, but he turned right in the throwing lane of the other defender. Had Little ran the out like Campbell was expecting it was open. And speaking of Little, any receiver in the game not named Bess...who would have likely dropped the pass...could have caught that screen and ran 44-yards. Little could easily be sent packing at the end of the year, and at the very least will be send farther down the depth chart. He's earned that.
As for Gordon, he's loafed all year long when not fully mentally invested in the game. Even on the TD, it's amazing that he did score because he ran a half-hearted route where he was barely going 3/4 speed...until he saw the ball in the air then decided to run. His body language after the score was pathetic. Down two TD's I wouldn't expect him to do a dance, but all I saw was resignation and defeat.
Gordon has all the gifts in the world but I've been seriously critical of his mind and his effort. He IS making strides to becoming a franchise WR, but he has strides to make between the ears. At least he didn't pull a Dez Bryant and walk off the field before the game was over.
Since we're talking about QB's, I saw a couple of his highlights. the TD to Jefferies...my God, how do you lob it up into double coverage and get away with that? Rusty or not, Cutler is NOT a franchise QB. He's a solid NFL QB but he's always been a huge gambler which has resulted in him being a turnover machine. The guy falls outside the realm of the franchise players.
Consider this: In 105 career starts, Jay Cutler has 110 INT's and 62 fumbles, with 25 of them lost. That is FAR from the realm of franchise QB's.
If Cutler could be had only for a contract, sure, take a shot, but if the Bears limit his movement and it takes a draft pick or picks to get him, pass on him, he's not a franchise QB.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Yep it must be why dawgs don't respond to me. Cause I basically posted the same format you did...its ok for you to just say that.
I did put a lot of football out there and was just messing with you on the NAH stuff - I got pretty descriptive too. I see you didn't discuss that. But you are right it must be why I don't get responses it my foul personality. lol  thank you Mr. warm and fuzzy Art Linkletter.
its what you saw - I stated its also what I saw but there is two side to the story. Totally ignored by you as was the compliment I gave to you... I give up.
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I was at the game and there were a bunch of times where he just flat out didn't see guys who were open. I'm not saying he should have seen them, I'm not saying they were his primary but man, it sure sucks to see it.
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The announcers did mention that receivers were open, specifically Gordon and Cameron, and that Campbell basically ignored them. They showed Gordon running all by himself a couple of times.
I do think that the passing game had an off day in general. When the QB saw something, he either missed a throw, or the receiver dropped the ball. When receivers got wide open, Campbell didn't see them. It just looked like a discombobulated kind of day in general. Even the run game wasn't highly effective. Baker showed some nice skills, but he still only managed 38 yards on the ground.
I do wonder how much the loss of McGahee hurt the offense as far as pass blocking goes. His blocking was probably quite a security blanket for Campbell. I wonder how much his being unable to play disrupted Campbell.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The bears have by far the worst run defense in the league. One decent TD run against a trash run defense doesn't impress me much.
But yeah, Cambell was Cambell, he's shown this season, he's hot and cold. He was cold on a cold day.
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I was at the game and there were a bunch of times where he just flat out didn't see guys who were open. I'm not saying he should have seen them, I'm not saying they were his primary but man, it sure sucks to see it.
I was at the game too and could see Gordon open a lot. I think he gets a bit flustered when the QB checks down like JC was doing. This leads to occasional loafing. Not excusable but certainly understandable.
So really, this was a problem for BOTH JC and Gordon. JC wasn't getting him the ball and Gordon let his frustrations get to him. You could see it in his body language.
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*In Baker we trust*
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Quote:
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I was at the game and there were a bunch of times where he just flat out didn't see guys who were open. I'm not saying he should have seen them, I'm not saying they were his primary but man, it sure sucks to see it.
I was at the game too and could see Gordon open a lot. I think he gets a bit flustered when the QB checks down like JC was doing. This leads to occasional loafing. Not excusable but certainly understandable.
So really, this was a problem for BOTH JC and Gordon. JC wasn't getting him the ball and Gordon let his frustrations get to him. You could see it in his body language.
I wasn't at the game, but honestly, outside of a few guys, it seemed as if they were playing in slow motion. Just an observation.
It was like the wind got taken out of their sails from the loss last week where defeat was snatched from the jaws of victory..
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Actually, Baker did impress me for this reason.
He showed a great burst on a couple of runs, where he exploded like he was shot out of a cannon. Then, on the TD run, he kept his legs pumping hard, and carries defenders into the end zone. That was a run we see get stuffed far too often this year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Actually, Baker did impress me for this reason.
He showed a great burst on a couple of runs, where he exploded like he was shot out of a cannon. Then, on the TD run, he kept his legs pumping hard, and carries defenders into the end zone. That was a run we see get stuffed far too often this year.
Fair enough, I didn't have a good look at the TD run because I was at the other end of the stadium. I can't wait until they put up that new Jumbotron, it is LONG overdue for when plays are happening on the opposite end of the stadium.
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New jumbotron IS long overdue!!!!!
Baker has acceleration. He showed he can catch and YAC. He showed he can get low on goal-line and rumble through some arm tackles.
So to wrap up my lil' post here - run the f'n heck outta the kid! I for one WANT to see more snaps from him. He'll be one of the few bright spots to watch for as the season winds to an end. Impressive debut!
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1. The article mentioned that the car in front of them lost control and they tried to avoid. Maybe Gordon's driver didn't leave enough room between the two cars, but he's not the only one that makes that mistake. 2. Are people really harping on the guy for not driving his own car? How many times have people said, on these boards and other times, that these players should have themselves driven around to avoid getting into trouble (speeding tickets, reckless driving, etc)? Damned if you do, damned if you don't, I guess.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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Quote:
1. The article mentioned that the car in front of them lost control and they tried to avoid. Maybe Gordon's driver didn't leave enough room between the two cars, but he's not the only one that makes that mistake.
2. Are people really harping on the guy for not driving his own car? How many times have people said, on these boards and other times, that these players should have themselves driven around to avoid getting into trouble (speeding tickets, reckless driving, etc)? Damned if you do, damned if you don't, I guess.
Agreed. I'm sure I read somewhere it wasn't Gordon's driver's fault. Just one of those things that can happen......
On a side note, Sunday morning I saw Gordon's Porsche leaving the hotel. (no, he wasn't in it) It's just as ugly in person as it seems in the photos.
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You really don't know why I brought up the question as to why Gordon wasn't driving his own automobile? Really? The guy is a 5 time loser in regards to failing drug tests. Still not making sense? The only time I let someone drive my car is when I am too wasted to drive it myself. Still not making sense? 
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You really don't know why I brought up the question as to why Gordon wasn't driving his own automobile? Really?
The guy is a 5 time loser in regards to failing drug tests.
Still not making sense?
The only time I let someone drive my car is when I am too wasted to drive it myself.
Still not making sense?
Wow........ just wow.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Actually, Baker did impress me for this reason.
He showed a great burst on a couple of runs, where he exploded like he was shot out of a cannon. Then, on the TD run, he kept his legs pumping hard, and carries defenders into the end zone. That was a run we see get stuffed far too often this year.
Agreed, YT. He showed a lot more spring in his legs. I finally got to watch the CHI and NE games last night. Watched the CHI game first and Baker's burst was notable, then when I saw McGahee running in the NE game the difference was just so pronounced.
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You really don't know why I brought up the question as to why Gordon wasn't driving his own automobile? Really?
The guy is a 5 time loser in regards to failing drug tests.
Still not making sense?
The only time I let someone drive my car is when I am too wasted to drive it myself.
Still not making sense?
Not on the way to work.
More likely, IMHO, is that it was crappy out, and he didn't want to drive on the ice, and his friend said that he would do it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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You really don't know why I brought up the question as to why Gordon wasn't driving his own automobile? Really?
The guy is a 5 time loser in regards to failing drug tests.
Still not making sense?
The only time I let someone drive my car is when I am too wasted to drive it myself.
Still not making sense?
if what you are insinuating is in any way true, then there would be good odds that he'd be busted already and suspended for the next year. he is tested constantly and at random times in the program he is in and diluting samples counts as a positive test, so he cannot just do that either.
he has a cool car (for the kids, I think it's ugly) and I'm guessing that he has friends that want turns to drive it and he let them.
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Not on the way to work.
I can't find anything that says he was on his way to work.. I guess you can insinuate that from the two lines that say he was on his way back to Cleveland and he later made his meetings on time...
It does seem odd that I can't find a single article that mentions what time the accident happened, where he was coming from, etc.. nothing. Not that I'm saying there is a big conspiracy or anything. All I know is that in the Twitter pic his friend is standing by his suitcase, did Gordon just pick him up at the airport? and it's daylight in the photo ... who knows.
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I saw what I saw.
I am not saying JC played great. He made some mistakes. However, the receivers wussed out on several occasions.
I saw that.
I saw that, too. Campbell was really inaccurate overall in the Chicago game, but yeah there were a lot of times the receivers arms are going out to the ball and their bodies, well... not as quickly. In fairness, a lot of those were on plays where the ball came out late when you would think a defender would be there to clean their clocks. I have to think if you're a receiver and you're open a long time, and *then* the ball comes and you're running to get it, you might think you're about to get your clock cleaned.
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Thanks for acknowledging what I saw. Some are acting like I made it up.
You also raised a good point. You're right.......some of those throws were leading the receivers into harm's way. They were into traffic. They would have gotten hit. Especially Gordon.
With that said, I think it's part of the job. You get paid. You try to make the catch. Deion Sanders used to call them "business decisions," but most receivers really do go after the ball.
Those poor attempts are part of the reason I said that we didn't seem to play as hard as Chicago and that the cold affected us more.
I could be wrong. I could be making more out of it than is warranted. However, my instincts aren't usually too far off.
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,468 |
Quote:
Thanks for acknowledging what I saw. Some are acting like I made it up.
You also raised a good point. You're right.......some of those throws were leading the receivers into harm's way. They were into traffic. They would have gotten hit. Especially Gordon.
With that said, I think it's part of the job. You get paid. You try to make the catch. Deion Sanders used to call them "business decisions," but most receivers really do go after the ball.
Those poor attempts are part of the reason I said that we didn't seem to play as hard as Chicago and that the cold affected us more.
I could be wrong. I could be making more out of it than is warranted. However, my instincts aren't usually too far off.
if thats the case, i don't blame the WR one bit.
we have ALL witnessed what happens when weeden would throw the ball, he would get some of our players killed out there. Oby will be the first to tell you that. ball placement is just as important.
at the same time, while yes, its the WR job to still catch those, but vers you're killing me with your hate for gordon.
didn't saying anything when he was going on a good streak and was the #1 WR in yards, but as soon as he had a bad game, you're insulting comments toward him came out the woodwork. didn't even hesitate to let them fly.
man dude, you really hate the only good playmakers we have on the team. ward, haden, gordon.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,858
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,858 |
Quote:
You really don't know why I brought up the question as to why Gordon wasn't driving his own automobile? Really?
The guy is a 5 time loser in regards to failing drug tests.
Still not making sense?
The only time I let someone drive my car is when I am too wasted to drive it myself.
Still not making sense?
Man, you make it look so easy 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Wasn't trying to make it look easy.
Always amazes me how things get twisted around.
I originally said I wondered why Gordon wasn't driving. I did not say that he was doing drugs or was drunk.
Others were acting like I was nuts for wondering.
I pointed out that there are reasons to wonder why he wasn't driving...........nothing more, nothing less.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
I don't hate any of them.
I think all three are good players. I just don't think they are as good as you guys make them out to be. I try to bring some balance to the conversation. For some reason, that irritates you.
Black and white. No grays allowed.
Btw---------an elite receiver doesn't wuss out. Better than Jerry Rice...........right!!!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,858
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,858 |
Quote:
Wasn't trying to make it look easy.
Always amazes me how things get twisted around.
I originally said I wondered why Gordon wasn't driving. I did not say that he was doing drugs or was drunk.
Others were acting like I was nuts for wondering.
I pointed out that there are reasons to wonder why he wasn't driving...........nothing more, nothing less.
I was trying to say you make it easy to look like an Arse,, But you can take it anyway you want
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
You are consistent...........I have to give that to you.
Do you feel real big?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,733
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,733 |
Trying to indicate the reason Gordon wasn't driving because he was high, (which you most certainly did), is a reach at best and trying to jump to a HUGE conclusion at the worse.
I didn't think even you would go there. And I think it's sad you did.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Sorry to have offended the moral majority. However, that was the first thought that popped into my head. You can blame me for this. I don't care. But, it wasn't me who got busted five times in a couple of years for banned substances. I do find it ironic that you and Daman are so offended that I question Gordon's character, yet you question mine for suggesting that Gordon may have just been being Gordon. If only I could be as holy as you two......... 
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