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What are we looking at, at least 7 HC job openings in the next 3 weeks?
Does anyone know what the book is on Horton, as a potential Head Coach? Is there any word (fact or opinion) on how he did on his interviews? How close he may have came to a job last year? What are his weaknesses? Strengths?
Do his strengths line up with the qualities looked for in a Head Coach?
What potential team or teams might be a good fit? What do you think may be the chance of him being here next year?
Barry Bonds Check
Roger Clemens Check
Mark McGuire Check
Lance Armstrong Check
71-79 Steelers Taboo
(Lets pretend it didn't happen.)
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Legend
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I have no idea but what I think you are going to get in this thread is a lot of people who were scared to death to lose him 10 weeks ago, that aren't nearly as concerned right now...
yebat' Putin
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~ Legend
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Probably not very well considering how our defense has played.
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Legend
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Quote:
I have no idea but what I think you are going to get in this thread is a lot of people who were scared to death to lose him 10 weeks ago, that aren't nearly as concerned right now...
Ding. Ding. Ding.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I know he will be invited to interview for every open job just on the Rooney rule alone.
I do know that we made him one of the highest paid DC's in the NFL. I hoping he has a chip on his shoulder and will refuse to be teams Rooney rule lackey and refuse to interview... 
DC dawg...huh? This is the best defense we have had in a long long time. It will only get BETTER not Worse as the young player develop and the Defense is more comfortable to all in year 2, 3 etc.
We statistically show that we are one of the best young Defenses around...and Statistically show that we are one of the worst 3rd down teams and Red Zone teams around...why?
two reasons.
1. Pressure - with more familiarity in this defense we will get onto to 102 and so forth of our blitz packages. We are in 101.
2. Depth - Nickel Dime D...you know the one out there with all those BAD STATS!
We sorely need more depth in CBs and Safeties. When its our Starters against their Starters we kick butt. But once we get into the chess match of Depth...we just don't stand a chance. The level of talent falls so far short from our first tier to 2nd.
Its something that is easily corrected it just takes time to get it done. Either we get upgrades on our Starters who are decent and then the starters we had become the depth...or we upgrade the bottom of our Barrel which would be easier.
So regarding draft...BPA if its CB or Safety or ILB we will go for it and upgrade on our starters. If its mid round and 2nd tier it to upgrade on our depth. And don't forget natural progress from some of the young guys out there now...like McFadden and Posey and Poyer.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
I do know that we made him one of the highest paid DC's in the NFL. I hoping he has a chip on his shoulder and will refuse to be teams Rooney rule lackey and refuse to interview...
That doesn't make any sense. He is a black man. Bogus interview or not, the only way he gets a head gig is to interview. How does he know who has a true interest and who doesn't?
I'd say there is a good chance he gets a head job this year.
Our D has improved and most know we haven't won only 4 games because of the D. Sure, we have lost a few games because of the D, but it is mostly because we can't move the ball well enough on O.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I think Horton has done a fine job even with all the critics out there. So I suspect someone will look at him. Not sure he'll get a HC Job or not, but he'll get interviews.
I also believe that he isn't the only fish in the sea. He may not even be the best DC that will come available next year. So this could be a good thing (me being the glass half full kinda guy that I am thinks it's possible.)
I'm actually more worried about holding a core of quality young players together that we could lose to free agency.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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That doesn't make any sense. I forget people cannot read my mind... 
He's highly paid here. He doesn't have the reputation to write his own ticket. His opportunity to interview is because of the Rooney rule.
I think we genuinely are not that far from greatness as a team and especially the Defense.
IF...IF we progress in all areas and the somewhat dominating at times Defense gets better to the point that we turn that 3rd down efficiency around and we put out a more than competent QB out there on the Offense we can be a playoff team as soon as next season.
Let alone going deep in the playoffs. With that kind of turn around he would be in a position to "WRITE HIS OWN TICKET" - where now token interview or actual candidate...he would have to make a lot of concessions - its all depends on the ego of the GM or Owner.
As stated I hope he has a chip on his shoulder and refuses the interview not forever. Obviously he would wish to be a HC...but get some of the job done here and take that success to get the RIGHT job not just any Job.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I think that we need to look at which teams will have openings next year.
The way I see it .......
AFCE: No changes
AFCN: No changes
AFCS: Houston - Definitely, Tennessee - Probably
AFCW: No changes - I think that Oakland has performed far better than anyone expected, so no changes.
NFCE: Washington - Almost certainly, Dallas - Maybe, NY Giants - Leaning against, even with the bad year
NFCN: Minnesota
NFCS: Atlanta - Tons of injuries, I don't see a change here. Tampa Bay - if they feel that the team is heading in the right direction, then I could see them standing pat.
NFCW: No changes.
The way I see it, Houston, Tennessee, Washington, Dallas, and Minnesota are likely to definite changes. The Giants are unlikely to make a change, and I think that Coughlin will return. I also think that Atlanta will stand pat, as they had a bunch of injuries this year. I think that Tampa Bay could also stand pat if they can win one more game this year.
I think that Dallas will go with an offensive head coach. I just don't see Jones deciding to become a defensive minded owner all of a sudden.
Minnesota has an awful defense this year, but had a good defense last year. Maybe a new voice makes the difference there. They could look at a defensive minded coach to go along with Peterson. Horton would require the team to change from a 4-3 to a 3-4 team. I don't know how they would feel about making that change.
Houston has an upper level defense. Their problems are on offense. I just see their owner as wanting an offensive minded coach.
Washington will go find an offensive minded coach to work with RG3.
Tennessee could go with a defensive minded coach. Their best success since their move has been under Fisher. They are middle of the pack in points allowed, and middle=ish in points scored. They really could go either way. I don't know if they even will be in the market for a new head coach. I don't recall hearing much about them necessarily making a change.
I do think that Horton could find himself outside looking in again next off-season. I think that several teams will almost certainly look for an offensive head coach. I don't know if a 4-3 team will want to make a change to the 3-4.
It will be interesting.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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He'll get interviews and he'll get them because he's one heckuva coach. he'll also get a few because of the Rooney Rule. But here's the deal, once he's in front of an owner and GM, he has the chance to impress them.
If he gets an offer to be a HC, he's gone. make no mistake about it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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He can't find a way to stop the short, middle of the field attacks that seemingly every offense that has played us has exploited. I love the man and think he speaks with heart and I think that the players love him too, but game after game it's the same situation, method or course of action an offense picks to slice us up - and game after game we allow that. I mean HEY lets run a little out route or a curl route and gash the Brown's defense for 20 yards. And Horton, bringing four man pressures IS NOT WORKING. Why do you continue this? Why not dial in some pressures? His play calling is almost as questionable as Norv's crappy play calling as of recent... 
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
What are we looking at, at least 7 HC job openings in the next 3 weeks?
Does anyone know what the book is on Horton, as a potential Head Coach? Is there any word (fact or opinion) on how he did on his interviews? How close he may have came to a job last year? What are his weaknesses? Strengths?
Do his strengths line up with the qualities looked for in a Head Coach?
What potential team or teams might be a good fit? What do you think may be the chance of him being here next year?
Judging by the record of the Browns and how they have done (statistics aside), I would not be surprised if he wasn't even considered for a HC position in the NFL in 2014.
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I don't know if Horton gets a HC job or not, but losing a (likely) 4-12, 4th Q imploding D-coord would be a disaster.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I'm not sure about 7 openings... I think there are a few that could swing either way....
Houston is open.
I think Shanahan gets fired. I'll mark that as 2.
Will NY finally fire Tom Coughlin? What about Dallas and Garrett?
I don't think Leslie Frazier gets fired... I'm coming around on Greg Schiano not getting fired either. I think Mike Smith gets one more year in Atlanta...
Rex Ryan in NY? Haven't heard a ton about it. Those problems run deeper than HC.
Then there are the Raiders, and who knows with the Raiders.
I think there may only be 4 openings at the end of the year....
I don't think Horton gets one of them. I think he's a year away, although I thought Chud was a year away (my gut feeling was that Carolina was going to be good this year and thus Chud getting looks) and we went early on him.
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If there are 7 openings and he's one of the 7 best candidates, I hope he gets the gig. Of course that would leave us open at DC and as long as we don't try to bring in Lane Kiffen's daddy we should be fine. Jeez is he having a bad year.
#GMSTRONG
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Last year 8 teams hired new head coaches. Only one team hired a defensive minded coach, Gus Bradley in Jacksonville. The trend is clearly towards an offense first approach.
I suspect Horton will have several interviews to fulfill the Rooney Rule mandate, but my feeling is he is next year's Perry Fewell. Lots of chatter about the candidate, but walking away with no offers.
I do believe Horton will be back with us again next year.
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Quote:
I do believe Horton will be back with us again next year.
That's good because, despite the capricious fans, I think he is a good defensive coordinator who needs more than one year with a new FO to reach his potential.
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Quote:
DC dawg...huh? This is the best defense we have had in a long long time. It will only get BETTER not Worse as the young player develop and the Defense is more comfortable to all in year 2, 3 etc.
Not saying he isn't a good coach, just that among Browns fans, he's not the shiny new toy he was early in the season...
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Quote:
DC dawg...huh? This is the best defense we have had in a long long time. It will only get BETTER not Worse as the young player develop and the Defense is more comfortable to all in year 2, 3 etc.
Not saying he isn't a good coach, just that among Browns fans, he's not the shiny new toy he was early in the season...
somebody forgot to get the services done at 50k miles with regards to our pass rush. that shiny new toy just because junk with no batteries.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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I was all excited about the hire and early on it looked like great ! .. End of the season and we are one of the worst at getting off the field on third down and at the bottom of the heap defending in the red zone .. Not exactly a glowing report .. I don't understand the personal packages ( who is on the field / how many plays a guy gets ) .. I know we get exploited week in and week out over the middle ( ILB problem partly and scheme also ) .. I believe we miss Bryant and Grimes more than we thought we would .. We can be ranked fourth against the run and eight in pass coverage , but we are giving up a bunch of points and we stink in the fourth quarter .. I am not sure what all that means when you add it up ... I hope Banner and Lombo do 
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2nd String
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Quote:
I was all excited about the hire and early on it looked like great ! ..
End of the season and we are one of the worst at getting off the field on third down and at the bottom of the heap defending in the red zone .. Not exactly a glowing report .. I don't understand the personal packages ( who is on the field / how many plays a guy gets ) .. I know we get exploited week in and week out over the middle ( ILB problem partly and scheme also ) .. I believe we miss Bryant and Grimes more than we thought we would .. We can be ranked fourth against the run and eight in pass coverage , but we are giving up a bunch of points and we stink in the fourth quarter .. I am not sure what all that means when you add it up ... I hope Banner and Lombo do
I think it means we have a talented but young defense.
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Quote:
Quote:
I have no idea but what I think you are going to get in this thread is a lot of people who were scared to death to lose him 10 weeks ago, that aren't nearly as concerned right now...
Ding. Ding. Ding.
Changes like the weather!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I have no idea but what I think you are going to get in this thread is a lot of people who were scared to death to lose him 10 weeks ago, that aren't nearly as concerned right now...
Ding. Ding. Ding.
Changes like the weather!
Everything is great in September, becomes cold and bitter in late November, and makes you sick by mid December.
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I don't think Horton is a problem.
I hope we keep him.
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1st String
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I highly doubt that teams are jumping to the phones,as this defense has not exactly been as advertised.Kruger and Mingo are a huge reason for it too.I hope he stays but if he does,they have to have OLBs that get sacks,or it's pointless to run the 3-4.No one game plans around,or worries about some guys with 4 sacks.Secondary help is also a major issue.Horton should stay one more year,and finish the job.If not,good luck,thanks for stopping by,and best wishes.
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Dawg Talker
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Lets see:
Redskins
Cowboys
Texans
Vikings
Titans
Jets
next tier:
Giants
Lions
Raiders
Bucs
Dolphins
If there is less than six I'll be surprised.
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Legend
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Quote:
I don't think Horton is a problem.
I hope we keep him.
I agree with you Vers.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I don't know if the Jets will make a move or not.
To me honest, when the season began, I had Ryan down as a dead man walking. He has done a marvelous job with a team that has major flaws though. Smith has hardly been an asset to the team,. with 10 TD and 21 INT ...... but even he has helped than win a game or 2. They are 6-8 right now, and I truly have no idea how they have done it. They have 12 players on IR, and have had long injury lists lately beyond those players lost for the season. (even though few were starters)
I would not be surprised if he returns next year, and I also would not be surprised if he were to be fired.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Ryan does a great job at orchestrating the Jet's defense and making the calls... I still question his "head coaching" ability though. It's always a circus in Jets land and it start with Rex.
JMO
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Oh I agree ..... however he has done a great job this year.
Many people though that this year's Jets team might be had pressed to win 1 game. They have won 6 so far, and play us and at Miami. They have, at least, a solid chance in both games.
Back to the other list, I don;t see Miami making a change unless they directly implicate the head coach in the Martin affair. They also could be better than expected ..... probably ending at 9-7.
Tampa is a real question mark. It appears that the team is responding to their coach, and that Glennon might be a capable NFL QB. I think that Schiano may have bought himself another season at the helm.
The Giants could be a possibility, but the Giants owner has said, absolutely, that Coughlin will be back next year. I think that this year has been a matter of injuries for the Giants. It seems like their whole OL has been beat to death this season. They lost Stevie Brown and Aaron Ross, which hurt their secondary. It seems like every RB they have has wound up on IR. Odd to see that Peyton Hillis is the one who has remained standing.
I don't know how much of Eli Manning's troubles have been because of his OL, but I think that his struggles factor in big to the equation. I think that Coughlin will get another year to "reset" things.
The Lions have bounced back from a 4 win season to win 7 games so far. I really don't have a feeling for them at all. They play in a tough division. This one could probably go either way. I really don't know.
I really don't see the Raiders making a change this off-season. They are another team expected to struggle to win 1 game, and they have won 4. They have a young QB in McGloin, who may, or may not be the answer ..... but the fact that they are taking a hard look gives him some legitimacy. I have a feeling that Smith will return.
It is really hard to say how many teams decide to pull the trigger. There could easily be surprises either way.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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If he does go, I'm not worried about it. It's not as if he's been a defensive genius running a radical scheme this season that no other coordinator could comprehend. There have been good showings and bad showings, with a lot of failed attempts to get off the field on 3rd downs and close games out in the 4th. The Browns could get a replacement for him if he goes, and there is plenty of room to grow if he stays. Personally, I'm pretty indifferent about his fate at this point.
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My view is that Chud went on record as wanting to bring in someone who is very agressive. Horton fit the bill - did what he was asked. I do think that we hit harder, and tackle better than most Brown's teams I've seen in years.
But, the fourth quarter imploding is a good point.
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Quote:
My view is that Chud went on record as wanting to bring in someone who is very agressive. Horton fit the bill - did what he was asked. I do think that we hit harder, and tackle better than most Brown's teams I've seen in years.
But, the fourth quarter imploding is a good point.
Didn't defensive rankings improve greatly?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Yes,
It seems many are a bit down on him because the D has tapered off a bit. There was a time where guys on this board were thinking playoffs. Although having to play Weeden put a quick end to that, our defense didn't seem to progress from that part of the season.
I think we have some talent on the defensive side of the ball, but not a lot, and not as much as many teams who haven't performed as well as our defense has.
He's a good coach. Potentially a great D coordinator. Do you guys think he's Head Coach material is the question?
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I can go either way on if Horton stays or goes...
That being said its because of this.
If he stays...amazing. The guy is a great defensive coordinator. And the issue is that every team he has coached, the defense has been good not great off the bat. The D in Az had good numbers, but wasnt great his first year, and things mproved every year after that. to the point it was a GREAT defense last year, and without him has still been a very good defense this year.
Yes 3rd down and RZ have been an issue, but this defense is not perfect...we still lack in a few places and need to improve in a number of places...we're also very young and changing COMPLETELY. We went from the soft, bend dont break, read and react defenses of Dick Jauron to this animal in Horton. Yes Rob Ryan went hard when Mangini was here...but that was for a short amount of time, and before that was 5 years of Romeo's soft defense...5 of the last 7 years our defense has been bend dont break, read and react defenses. With two years of crazy with Rob Ryan. Now we're back to crazy go get it defense, but with players that dont necessarily have that mentality...though we added some pieces...
Things havent been perfect, but theyve been MUCH better...If you look at this league...its hard to have a dominant defense...its hard to stop everything because the rules favor the offense so much.
Horton has done a great job so far and will only improve the defense next year. But we need a better ILB...a thudder...a Burfict/Harrison/Porter type.
The reason I'll be okay if he goes is this...
We knew hiring this man that he would be a rental. We knew that he wouldnt be here for a long long time because he is on his way up. He is going to be looking for head coaching jobs EVERY single offseason he is here.
We would be complete idiots if we didnt have a contingency plan, for if he leaves. There is an assistant on staff, that will remain as DC when he leaves to become the head coach. There are prolly assistants also there that will leave with him...but I just dont see a situation where he leaves and we dont have a guy within to promote that wont change our defense much. That has similar philosophies that we can continue building what we are building right now.
If he stays great, if he leaves...we'll be fine, that was in the plans anyway.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
Quote:
He's a good coach. Potentially a great D coordinator. Do you guys think he's Head Coach material is the question?
I don't think there is any way to know... being a HC is a vastly different skill set than being a DC...
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,140 Likes: 134
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,140 Likes: 134 |
Quote:
Yes,
It seems many are a bit down on him because the D has tapered off a bit. There was a time where guys on this board were thinking playoffs. Although having to play Weeden put a quick end to that, our defense didn't seem to progress from that part of the season.
I think we have some talent on the defensive side of the ball, but not a lot, and not as much as many teams who haven't performed as well as our defense has.
He's a good coach. Potentially a great D coordinator. Do you guys think he's Head Coach material is the question?
Maybe it's just me, but I don't think the right way to look at the Defense is to look at it play by play and be critical of each play.
I think you look at the whole product.
I do believe the D was good enough this year to win a lot of games with if only we had an offense that could consistently put up points.
I also think when looking at this D you have to take into account what they tried to do this year.
They added Krueger, Mingo and Bryant and some other lesser pieces. Moved a few guys around (sheard) Then asked everyone else that remained to switch from a 3-4 to a 4-3.
Basically, they changed everything on D. I'd say they are doing very well given those realities.
Does Horton get a HC job next year? I think he'll get interviews. All depends on if he impresses someone.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,184 Likes: 18
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,184 Likes: 18 |
Quote:
Yes,
It seems many are a bit down on him because the D has tapered off a bit. There was a time where guys on this board were thinking playoffs. Although having to play Weeden put a quick end to that, our defense didn't seem to progress from that part of the season.
I think we have some talent on the defensive side of the ball, but not a lot, and not as much as many teams who haven't performed as well as our defense has.
He's a good coach. Potentially a great D coordinator. Do you guys think he's Head Coach material is the question?
If guys like Dick LeBeau, Romeo Crennel, and Pat Shurmur were hired as head coaches, then Horton has as good of a shot as anybody.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,949 Likes: 763
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,949 Likes: 763 |
Quote:
Didn't defensive rankings improve greatly?
If you measure the rankings by yards given up, yes.
If you go by points surrendered, only marginally - we have slightly improved on last year going from 23 ppg to currently at 20.6 ppg.
Last year, 23 ppg was good for 19th best in the NFL.
This year, 20.6 ppg is only good for 27th.
So, Horton's defense doesn't give up many yards, but it gives up more points than all but 5 other teams.
Unfortunately, you win by points, not yardage.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Umm, not sure where your stats come from, but we are allowing 25.9ppg, not 20.6, this season and rank 21st with that
We flashed both more good and really bad play. We'e traded constant AVG to below AVG play for up and down play that is below AVG at the bottom line level. That's reality apologists don't want to face and psychoanalyze away conspiracy style to make sense of it.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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