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You have to remember, though, that it's not a matter of him saying "I refuse to sign it" and then just being out for the year. He simply just does not sign the tender, but he is free to do so at any time as long as it's not rescinded by the team. So, he could sit out the entire offseason, preseason, etc, and on the Saturday before opening day choose to sign it and immediately be guaranteed his entire salary (and the team would have to accordingly make ay necessary moves to comply with the salary cap, should they then be in violation). He could even decide to wait as far into the season as week 10 to sign it and be guaranteed his (what I believe would be prorated at this point) salary.
He could do that. It puts both parties in bad spots. It's bad for Mack because that close to the season, all the big free agent money has dried up, but my thoughts are that if you tag someone, you don't let them bully you around. That's a great way to set future players up to do the same thing in the future. Hold your ground sort of thing.
And if signing right before the start of the season affects his on-field play, that ultimately hurts his free agent haul the next year.
There is always talk about players holding out for several weeks into the season but in reality it never happens. It's too expensive.
This is true, but it cuts both ways. Refusing to deal with a player who makes it clear that he has no desire to play for your franchise in order to win a peeing contest is a very bad look for a front office. Beyond that, I don't think that our FO in particular wants to waste their time dealing with such a person.
But I do believe that it's a moot point as you said, because I don't expect him to be tagged in the first place.
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I have to give the Cleveland media some props for really grilling Haslam and Banner; the facebook comments and asking why Lombardi wasn't there were priceless. Of course, we had one certain reporter ask questions that had been answered about 5 times already.
Still, I would loved someone to ask more follow-up questions, like, "When evaluating Chud's performance, what things do you think he could have done differently to help his team show improvement at the end of the season?" I would have loved to see Banner answer that.
The facebook question dude is a GENIUS ... he got to ask a brutally tough question and not take the flak for it .... using a facebook comment to ask a brutal question is BRILLIANT ... *L* ...
that was the one question I wanted asked ... actually theres two .... and I missed the beginning of the presser so maybe #2 was asked ...
#1 - what was the EXACT process/matrix U used to track the progress of the teams improvement ... WHAT WENT INTO THAT .... I was dying for someone to ask that question ....
#2 - chud was fired cause he couldn't do the job ... why did banner and/or Lombardi survive since I would ASSume one of the biggest parts of there job is too bring in a HC ... IF CHUD WAS SO BAD HE HAD TO BE FIRED AFTER YEAR 1 HOW DID THE PERSON/PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS HIRE AVOID BLAME??? .... I wonder if that was asked if he would broke out the DOUBLE SECRET PROBATION card .... *L* ...
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#2 was sort of asked, I think. I can't remember exactly how it was phrased, but I believe it was something to the effect of what happens and who's responsible if the next guy they hire to be HC fails as well.
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You have to remember, though, that it's not a matter of him saying "I refuse to sign it" and then just being out for the year. He simply just does not sign the tender, but he is free to do so at any time as long as it's not rescinded by the team. So, he could sit out the entire offseason, preseason, etc, and on the Saturday before opening day choose to sign it and immediately be guaranteed his entire salary (and the team would have to accordingly make ay necessary moves to comply with the salary cap, should they then be in violation). He could even decide to wait as far into the season as week 10 to sign it and be guaranteed his (what I believe would be prorated at this point) salary.
He could do that. It puts both parties in bad spots. It's bad for Mack because that close to the season, all the big free agent money has dried up, but my thoughts are that if you tag someone, you don't let them bully you around. That's a great way to set future players up to do the same thing in the future. Hold your ground sort of thing.
And if signing right before the start of the season affects his on-field play, that ultimately hurts his free agent haul the next year.
There is always talk about players holding out for several weeks into the season but in reality it never happens. It's too expensive.
This is true, but it cuts both ways. Refusing to deal with a player who makes it clear that he has no desire to play for your franchise in order to win a peeing contest is a very bad look for a front office. Beyond that, I don't think that our FO in particular wants to waste their time dealing with such a person.
But I do believe that it's a moot point as you said, because I don't expect him to be tagged in the first place.
Yeah, the way the franchise amount is calculated makes it really unlikely that a center will get tagged. I don't know what the exact amount is but I saw $11million thrown around before and it will probably come out somewhat close to that.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/28/10-things-to-know-about-the-franchise-tag/
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1. The formula has changed.
Under prior labor deals, the non-exclusive franchise tag was determined by calculating the average of the five highest-paid players at each position from the prior year. Under the 2011 CBA, the franchise tenders come from a more complex procedure.
Under Article 10, Section 2 of the CBA, the number is based on the five-year average cap percentage for the tag at each position.
So it’s no longer driven by what players at the same position made in the prior season, but by the average cap percentage consumed by the franchise tender over five years. Then, that percentage will be applied to the 2013 salary cap to determine the franchise tender at each position.
Already confused? We’ve got nine more.
Another interesting one that I didn't know about...
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5. Franchise tender is guaranteed, with one exception.
Once a player signs the franchise tag, the one-year salary becomes fully guaranteed. But there’s a little-known exception.
Under Article 10, Section 2(c) of the CBA, the contract can be terminated if the player fails “to establish or maintain his excellent physical condition.”
Any effort to do so would result in a review of the situation by a neutral physician and, eventually and inevitably, arbitration. Still, the franchise tender technically isn’t fully and completely guaranteed.
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j/c
So now what does everyone think?
Does everyone still think all of this talk about "continuity" rings true?
Does everyone still believe the BS PR line this FO said about it was they who decided against Kelly? Or are you ready to finally accept the truth that Kelly stood them up and bolted to Philly?
Do people really believe that without a QB or a running game that Chud actually got a fair shot?
Are people still so excited about the idea of "an involved owner"?
Sounds to me like a suave marketing guy sold this fan base a pigs ear claiming it was prime rib and many fans bought into it.
I'm sure we'll keep hearing more excuses from some. More rationalizations as to why most of the things we were told are being kicked to the curb.
I'm also very sure that when we do get a qB and a running game, whoever the coach is then will win more games and the team will look much better.
I'm also sure that this FO will try to use that as a way of trying to claim how right they were to fire Chud.
Will this fan base also buy that line of BS?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I gotta admit, Pit, I tried my best to be optimistic. This past year, when the FO did something goofy or some story came out painting them in a bad light, I dismissed it. I said "no, this can't be true, this FO is good."
Well, as it stands right now, I'm a moron.
Who's the fool, the fool? Or the fool who follows him?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Tune in next week for the answers to these and more questions.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Tune in next week for the answers to these and more questions.
So far this has turned out to be more like a soap opera than an NFL franchise.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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It used to be,than I began to see it as more of a comedy.Now,it reminds me of those really bad reality shows,hillbilly included.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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j/c
So now what does everyone think?
Does everyone still think all of this talk about "continuity" rings true?
Does everyone still believe the BS PR line this FO said about it was they who decided against Kelly? Or are you ready to finally accept the truth that Kelly stood them up and bolted to Philly?
Do people really believe that without a QB or a running game that Chud actually got a fair shot?
Are people still so excited about the idea of "an involved owner"?
Sounds to me like a suave marketing guy sold this fan base a pigs ear claiming it was prime rib and many fans bought into it.
I'm sure we'll keep hearing more excuses from some. More rationalizations as to why most of the things we were told are being kicked to the curb.
I'm also very sure that when we do get a qB and a running game, whoever the coach is then will win more games and the team will look much better.
I'm also sure that this FO will try to use that as a way of trying to claim how right they were to fire Chud.
Will this fan base also buy that line of BS?
- I think their credibility on the continuity thing takes a hit. There's no way around that. I always say that continuity is great but you have to have the right people. Continuity with bad people leads to Matt Millen and 0-16. That being said, I don't think Chud got a fair chance. He's well respected and I thought was a good coach. Clearly ownership and the FO see it differently.
- Not sure what happened with Kelly. He was the guy I wanted all along but it obviously didn't work out. A lot of what you are suggesting might be semantics, e.g. maybe the Browns really did walk away but only after some ridiculous demands by Kelly that were never reasonably going to be met. Who knows.
- I don't think Chud got a fair shot with the team. I wouldn't go so far as to say he was done dirty, assuming they pay the man what was agreed upon in the contract. It's not like he's going hungry.
- re: involved owner I don't want an absentee owner like Randy Lerner, and I also don't want a guy intimitely involved in football decisions like Jerry Jones. Not sure where Haslem falls in that (he was away this season a lot due to Pilot mess) but he seems to be pretty involved.
All in all I'm a little disappointed but probably am not going as far as a lot of posters are. I don't agree with the move but sometimes people just need to chill a bit and post more on logic than on emotion (not talking about you at all, just a general thought.)
edit: one more thing that I was going to post in the press conference thread that seems to be gone now, I couldn't help but read that Haslem had a lot more to say. His body language and facial expressions screamed it. Unfortunately as fans we just get the dumbed down, politically correct answers but I can pretty much guarantee that there was more going on than just the team backsliding. Just my opinion of course.
Last edited by hasugopher; 12/30/13 03:28 PM.
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All in all I'm a little disappointed but probably am not going as far as a lot of posters are. I don't agree with the move but sometimes people just need to chill a bit and post more on logic than on emotion (not talking about you at all, just a general thought.)
Yeah, all this drama is nauseating.
The hypocritical picking and choosing of things is also upsetting.
Oh well, here we go again....
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My fear is with possibly losing two FA's of our own, both demanding a sizable raise in pay, combined with Cleveland being so unstable that no real talented FA would want to come here, were going to end up having to pay out a lot of money for second teir FA's just to comply with the salary cap. Awesome. 
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That's a possibility. However, we do have a good situation here in that we do have a lot of money to offer and we have a ton of draft picks, including two in the first round.
If we bring in the right coach and sell the point that we are going to pair him w/the right QB, we might not be as undesirable as most people on here are making us out to be.
I am not saying this is a given, but hey......it's a possibility.
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Alright, now that I've gotten my greasy cheeseburger eaten I'm ready retort...lol. why do u think chud was a failure this year? ... Failure is a tough word, and I hope I didn't make that strong a statement....not saying I didn't come across that way just not what I intended. What I was trying to say is that there was some merit to what was being reported about this team regressing. We were 3-2 and then proceeded to lose 10 out of the next 11 games........including the likes of the Jags and Jets. I also felt that there was some merit to the comments that Vers made about guys quitting. Look at the Jags bro, that team was 0-8 and left for dead, but they got better and finished 4-4......they never quit on their HC (to his credit). We are more talented than the Jags, but consistently found new and exciting ways to lose games. For all the crap Ryan takes for the Jets, that guys get's the most out of that crap roster he has...kudos to him. We also held the lead in countless games in the 1st half only to get our butt handed to us in the 2nd half.........depth?? maybe, but it happened in the 1st few games to before the injuries mounted. I hate the move in firing Chud, because he wasn't given a fair shot AT ALL. In my opinion however, there were some warning signs that gave me pause as to whether he was the long term answer. I guess I just wasn't as high on him to begin with as some of you were, and didn't see anything over the course of the season to change my mind........as a matter of fact I saw some things that gave me real pause. My problem with the firing is he was never a chance to correct his deficiencies and grow as a HC.........and most importantly if he is this bad that he needs fired after 1 year then why did the stooges hire him to begin with???.........where's the accountability for that crap. why u so high on O'Brien ... what impresses u about him ... To put it plainly, the guy inherited a dumpster fire at PSU, and has lead that team through it's darkest points........and was still able to sell it to kids who were good enough to go to tOSU, Bama, scUM, ND, etc. That shows me an impressive leader, and a guy people want to believe in. This organization is a dumpster fire, and we need someone like that who can as Vers put it "change the culture".............dude is a winner and we need that. I can give you a bunch more examples as far as the way he setup Hackenburgh for success this year with both subtle and creative play caling, and some other stuff . The main reason is I think the guy has shown he can take a situation that is totally dysfunctional, and not only embrace it, but have other people with options to buy in with him........impressive and we need someone like that. Having said that, Rapaport just reported that stooges have no interest in him.......go figure...lol. We will end up with the Donks OC or Mcdaniels, and both will probably be utter failures. Rinse........Wash.....Repeat. 
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Playing the entire season looking over your shoulder is not a good situation regardless of what assets you may have in your favor, and the FO has set the precedent that any HC here will be coaching the season here while looking over his shoulder.
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Playing the entire season looking over your shoulder is not a good situation regardless of what assets you may have in your favor, and the FO has set the precedent that any HC here will be coaching the season here while looking over his shoulder.
Just to play devil's advocate a little ... but 4-12 is really, really bad. I mean just awful. If a coach with average competence comes in here, he should be able to get this team to 8-8 as it is currently constructed. A coach that can do that won't need to look over his shoulder.
I think Banner and Haslam are slimy. I think they did Chud wrong. But let's not forget that Chud did himself no favors here at all. The reports are mixed ... some players liked him, some didn't. I think players like Thomas and DQ are more in favor of continuity than Chud specifically.
I think one of the things that happened is Chud believed he was getting another year regardless of the record. Unfortunately, he kind of coached that way and his players played that way. Maybe he's just not a good leader of men or maybe he is and he just needed more time. Any way you slice it, 4-12 is epically bad. I think people keep losing sight of that.
Again, I think he should have gotten another year. I feel for the guy. Although I've been critical of him, my stomach turned when I heard of the news. But Chud did himself no favors. And the players did Chud no favors. Just an average record and we aren't even having this conversation.
Now the reports regarding the FO interference with coaching decisions does concern me ... but again, Chud said 'don't tell me what to do ... I'll figure it out' ... and he figured it out to the tune of 4-12.
Plus, I believe there is a whole slew of stuff behind the scenes that no one knows about. But I do think Haslam and Banner are slimy. Banner keeps taking credit for all of Philly's success as if no one else was involved.
Sometimes it seems like the NFL wants us to lose ... putting Haslam and Banner together has been just awful so far. Somewhere Goodell is laughing over his evil genius plan to get the Browns to LA or London or Tibuktu.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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edit: one more thing that I was going to post in the press conference thread that seems to be gone now, I couldn't help but read that Haslem had a lot more to say. His body language and facial expressions screamed it. Unfortunately as fans we just get the dumbed down, politically correct answers but I can pretty much guarantee that there was more going on than just the team backsliding. Just my opinion of course.
Wow-i just watched the presser, you are so right, Haslem was bursting at the seams. My guess is that he is not used to being questioned like this. The questions were pretty pointed-as they should be.
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What don't you like about Adam Gase? I heard that he was the guy that Manning wanted to replace McCoy.
Earlier, on NFL Network, they said he coached under Martz. Martz happened to be on and he spoke of Gase. He mentioned how bright he was and how the players loved him. He said it was apparent early on that this guy had a future as a HC.
Which means we probably won't get him.
I just find it kinda weird that so many people who were bad-mouthing our coaching these last several weeks are not chewing their limbs off because we lost Chud. The guy won 4 games w/a team that had more talent than last year's team and we were all down [except Spirit and 32] on Shurmur. It almost like some of these guys are enjoying this opportunity to rag on the FO. That's pretty weird.
My biggest disappointment is that the owner promised us continuity. I loved that he said that. I was of the strong opinion that the constant changes under Junior is what held the franchise back. So, I bought in w/the new owner. Less than a year later, he fires the head coach. That's disappointing.
I think someone posted on here that the last 4 coaches to be fired in the AFC North have all been Cleveland Brown's coaches. That's freaking incredible.
I am not giving up on these guys yet because I don't think there is anyway they can be worse than the previous regime, but their credibility just took a huge hit w/me. And if they draft Carr w/the 4th overall pick, I will be livid.
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jc...
For anyone that missed it:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-to...tooges-question
Boy, as the question was being asked, I thought Haslam was going to jump across the desk and choke someone. Someone said he doesn't have a good poker face ... spot on.
But man he handled that question beautifully after it was read. Smooth politician.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Playing the entire season looking over your shoulder is not a good situation regardless of what assets you may have in your favor, and the FO has set the precedent that any HC here will be coaching the season here while looking over his shoulder.
Just to play devil's advocate a little ... but 4-12 is really, really bad. I mean just awful. If a coach with average competence comes in here, he should be able to get this team to 8-8 as it is currently constructed. A coach that can do that won't need to look over his shoulder.
Yes but with the QB situation we had, i think we were lucky to win 4, dont you think? 2-14 could been more likely. QB is so important in the NFL. Good thing we had a running game. Oh, thats right we didnt...
Not saying Chud was the answer, but i dont think any coach in the NFL could have taken us to 8-8 with no decent QB and no featured RB!
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Bill O'Brien never won anything at Penn State. His "biggest accomplishment" is beatif Wisconsin 
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What don't you like about Adam Gase? I heard that he was the guy that Manning wanted to replace McCoy.
Earlier, on NFL Network, they said he coached under Martz. Martz happened to be on and he spoke of Gase. He mentioned how bright he was and how the players loved him. He said it was apparent early on that this guy had a future as a HC.
Which means we probably won't get him.
I just find it kinda weird that so many people who were bad-mouthing our coaching these last several weeks are not chewing their limbs off because we lost Chud. The guy won 4 games w/a team that had more talent than last year's team and we were all down [except Spirit and 32] on Shurmur. It almost like some of these guys are enjoying this opportunity to rag on the FO. That's pretty weird.
My biggest disappointment is that the owner promised us continuity. I loved that he said that. I was of the strong opinion that the constant changes under Junior is what held the franchise back. So, I bought in w/the new owner. Less than a year later, he fires the head coach. That's disappointing.
I think someone posted on here that the last 4 coaches to be fired in the AFC North have all been Cleveland Brown's coaches. That's freaking incredible.
I am not giving up on these guys yet because I don't think there is anyway they can be worse than the previous regime, but their credibility just took a huge hit w/me. And if they draft Carr w/the 4th overall pick, I will be livid.
Gase scares me because Manning makes every OC he plays with look like a genius. Heck he audibles out of over half the play calls...lol. So who knows. My biggest beef is I am sick of the inexperienced OJT coaches we have seen in Cleveland.......and I also want a strong leader. Maybe Gase is that guy, but I don't know and I have ZERO faith in Browns FOs in general of doing the right thing.
BTW........rumor is the Browns FO loves Manziel. Someone posted it on another thread, and I've heard some other reports linking our interest in him. Yep we need that guy throwing the football in Cleveland with 30 mph winds...lol. I don't like Carr either, but Manziel would be 1b if Carr was 1a.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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You act like that is unique to Cleveland.
Coaches get fired all the time. Lovie Smith went 10 and 6 and got fired. Marty went 14 and 2 and got fired. Billick won a Super Bowl and got fired. There was a coach who won 8 games in his first year and he got fired. Lelslie Frazier won 10 games last year, but was fired this year. Bill Belichick was once fired.
It's part of the business. These guys get paid huge money. They know the risks that come w/the job. Think about this: if you were a coach, would you rather work for Snyder in Washington, especially considering they have given away so many draft picks and all their current issues? Do you want to walk into Minnesota's QB situation. At least we have the ability to get a top QB in the draft. We have a ton of cap room. It's not as bleak as most are making it.
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I just find it kinda weird that so many people who were bad-mouthing our coaching these last several weeks are not chewing their limbs off because we lost Chud. The guy won 4 games w/a team that had more talent than last year's team and we were all down [except Spirit and 32] on Shurmur. It almost like some of these guys are enjoying this opportunity to rag on the FO. That's pretty weird.
For someone like me, I think Chud was really bad.
I also thought the best thing for the Browns was to give him another year.
I think what is so disappointing about the FO is they lied about continuity and also the reports that are coming out that they tried to force Chud's hand with the roster on who to play and who not to play.
My bottom line guess is the losing got too much. And because of that the entire organization, Haslam on down to Chud, didn't act like professionals like they said they were going to do. They never got in a room to do a post mortem and figure out where everybody could improve for next year. Instead, I think Haslam and Banner saw some things that they believed were not fixable leadership-wise with Chud and jumped to the conclusion that he just didn't possess those qualities. But if you liked him a year ago, you have to give him a chance to grow into the role. They made the assumption he wasn't capable of doing that.
It just screams of a rash decision. If they end up hiring someone like Gase, it will be proven that it is a rash decision. You only make rash decisions like that if you for sure know you are getting a proven commodity. Gase will be an epic fail here.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Playing the entire season looking over your shoulder is not a good situation regardless of what assets you may have in your favor, and the FO has set the precedent that any HC here will be coaching the season here while looking over his shoulder.
Just to play devil's advocate a little ... but 4-12 is really, really bad. I mean just awful. If a coach with average competence comes in here, he should be able to get this team to 8-8 as it is currently constructed. A coach that can do that won't need to look over his shoulder.
Problem with that is that the team next year probably won't be "as it is currently constructed". I expect Mack and Ward to walk in FA. I expect Gordon to be traded. I expect Little to be cut. I wouldn't be surprised if Thomas and/or Haden ask for trades (although Thomas's contract makes him virtually untradeable without restructuring). It wouldn't surprise me if Schwartz, Taylor and/or Rubin are let go. I also don't expect a QB to be drafted with a high draft pick...I think they're perfectly content to roll with Hoyer and Campbell as their 1 and 2 QBs.
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Bill O'Brien finished with winning records both years there while attracting several top recruits to join him.............all the while inheriting an absolute DUMPSTER FIRE. tOSU went hard after a TE that signed with PSU this year, and lost out mainly because the kid loved BO'b. He didn't beat tOSU, but neither did anyone else not named MSU. BO'b is leaving that hole a lot better off than when he found it.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Legend
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Legend
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I read the article about Manziel. Sounded like pure BS speculation w/no facts to me.
With that said, I would much rather have Manziel than Carr. At least he isn't a wuss.
I really hope we do everything in our power to get Bridgewater, though. He is the answer. Not sure if Houston would even entertain an offer for him, but if they are willing, I say we gotta make the move.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Bill O'Brien never won anything at Penn State. His "biggest accomplishment" is beatif Wisconsin
Thank-you for that little tidbit of knowledge.
The fact that he won any games at all,speaks volumes about him as a coach.
Many people said it would take 10 years for PSU to recover,he coached them to a winning record this year.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
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Quote:
Quote:
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Playing the entire season looking over your shoulder is not a good situation regardless of what assets you may have in your favor, and the FO has set the precedent that any HC here will be coaching the season here while looking over his shoulder.
Just to play devil's advocate a little ... but 4-12 is really, really bad. I mean just awful. If a coach with average competence comes in here, he should be able to get this team to 8-8 as it is currently constructed. A coach that can do that won't need to look over his shoulder.
Yes but with the QB situation we had, i think we were lucky to win 4, dont you think? 2-14 could been more likely. QB is so important in the NFL. Good thing we had a running game. Oh, thats right we didnt...
Not saying Chud was the answer, but i dont think any coach in the NFL could have taken us to 8-8 with no decent QB and no featured RB!
That's just excuse making. I'm not saying we should have made the playoffs with our QB situation, but 8-8 is average and should be expected with the roster we have.
Not to mention, we were in a position to close out 3-4 games that we didn't.
The bottom line is for whatever reason, the players didn't play hard for Chud. I find it ironic that some of them are pissed off when they could have prevented it from happening.
8-8 and we aren't even having this discussion today. Instead we would all be pissed off about our draft position. LOL.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
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Quote:
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Bill O'Brien never won anything at Penn State. His "biggest accomplishment" is beatif Wisconsin
Thank-you for that little tidbit of knowledge.
The fact that he won any games at all,speaks volumes about him as a coach.
Many people said it would take 10 years for PSU to recover,he coached them to a winning record this year.
You realize Penn State still had 4 star and 5 stat talent right? You're acting like he coached JUCO players and walk ons.
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Quote:
Problem with that is that the team next year probably won't be "as it is currently constructed". I expect Mack and Ward to walk in FA. I expect Gordon to be traded. I expect Little to be cut. I wouldn't be surprised if Thomas and/or Haden ask for trades (although Thomas's contract makes him virtually untradeable without restructuring). It wouldn't surprise me if Schwartz, Taylor and/or Rubin are let go. I also don't expect a QB to be drafted with a high draft pick...I think they're perfectly content to roll with Hoyer and Campbell as their 1 and 2 QBs.
Aren't you Mr. Sunshine? 
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Dawg Talker
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Agree on Bridgewater. He should be the target, and the Browns should do anything possible if the Texans would entertain the idea. I like Bortles out of UCF. I don't know if you've seen him, but he can play........watch the Bowl Wednesday night. I just don't know if I would take him 4, but we will probably have to because he won't last much longer than that......kid is good.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
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Yes but with the QB situation we had, i think we were lucky to win 4, dont you think? 2-14 could been more likely. QB is so important in the NFL. Good thing we had a running game. Oh, thats right we didnt...
Not saying Chud was the answer, but i dont think any coach in the NFL could have taken us to 8-8 with no decent QB and no featured RB!
That's just excuse making.
I agree. We won 5 games the year before w/Weeden at QB in 15 of our 16 games AND Shurmur as our HC.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
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Quote:
Quote:
Problem with that is that the team next year probably won't be "as it is currently constructed". I expect Mack and Ward to walk in FA. I expect Gordon to be traded. I expect Little to be cut. I wouldn't be surprised if Thomas and/or Haden ask for trades (although Thomas's contract makes him virtually untradeable without restructuring). It wouldn't surprise me if Schwartz, Taylor and/or Rubin are let go. I also don't expect a QB to be drafted with a high draft pick...I think they're perfectly content to roll with Hoyer and Campbell as their 1 and 2 QBs.
Aren't you Mr. Sunshine?
LOL. All of this fretting about Mack/Ward leaving is hysterical. Mack can not leave if we don't want him to......it's just $$$. If Ward leaves oh well.....I like him but won't lose a second sleep if he is gone.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,775 Likes: 404
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,775 Likes: 404 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Playing the entire season looking over your shoulder is not a good situation regardless of what assets you may have in your favor, and the FO has set the precedent that any HC here will be coaching the season here while looking over his shoulder.
Just to play devil's advocate a little ... but 4-12 is really, really bad. I mean just awful. If a coach with average competence comes in here, he should be able to get this team to 8-8 as it is currently constructed. A coach that can do that won't need to look over his shoulder.
Problem with that is that the team next year probably won't be "as it is currently constructed". I expect Mack and Ward to walk in FA. I expect Gordon to be traded. I expect Little to be cut. I wouldn't be surprised if Thomas and/or Haden ask for trades (although Thomas's contract makes him virtually untradeable without restructuring). It wouldn't surprise me if Schwartz, Taylor and/or Rubin are let go. I also don't expect a QB to be drafted with a high draft pick...I think they're perfectly content to roll with Hoyer and Campbell as their 1 and 2 QBs.
Whoa ... lot of speculation there.
One of Mack and/or Ward will be on the team next year.
Campbell will not be ... bank on it.
Gordon is not getting traded.
It's addition by subtraction if Little is cut.
Taylor isn't going anywhere.
Thomas and Haden will be here, maybe reluctantly. I could see Thomas asking for a trade ... or even demanding a trade. He deserves to play for a winner.
A lot will depend on the new guy coming in and how he sells himself and his program to the players too. If it's a 35 year old Gase, forget about it. Needs to be someone with some credibility.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,405 |
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As we speak, all the college QBs that declared are trying to change their minds.
I don't know...maybe an RGIII ego maniac, but seriously...what type of team does the first few QBs selected think they are going to?
"My signature line goes here."
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
I like Bortles. I wrote about him at the beginning of the year. Said he was a sleeper. He is my second ranked QB, but I think there are miles between he and Teddy.
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You realize that everyone of those players was allowed to bolt by the NCAA without penalty and BOB persuaded all of them to stay minus Redd?? I don't like PSU at all (I'm a Buckeye diehard), but keeping that program afloat, and recruiting some top players in the process is impressive. PSU is now in the position to be competitive for Bowls/conference titles as soon as they are eligible.........I wouldn't have dreamed that would be the case when the Paterno/Sandusky crap came about.....would you??
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 51,494 Likes: 728
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 51,494 Likes: 728 |
Quote:
I read the article about Manziel. Sounded like pure BS speculation w/no facts to me.
With that said, I would much rather have Manziel than Carr. At least he isn't a wuss.
I really hope we do everything in our power to get Bridgewater, though. He is the answer. Not sure if Houston would even entertain an offer for him, but if they are willing, I say we gotta make the move.
sort of like all the BS articles about chud getting fired...right?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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