Report: Browns HC Rob Chudzinski’s Future In Doubt
Tony Grossi of ESPN Cleveland reports that there are some “bad vibes” indicating uncertainty about the future of Browns HC Rob Chudzinski.
Chris Mortensen adds that there is some “turmoil and unhappiness” with how the Browns folded in the second half of season.
The news that Chudzinski could be on the hot seat is a little surprising given that expectations for the Browns this season were limited and some players like WR Josh Gordon and TE Cameron Jordan were able to put together breakout seasons. That still doesn’t change the fact that Cleveland currently has a 4-11 under Chudzinski and appears to be a lock for a top-ten draft pick in 2014.
It’s worth noting that the Browns top choice for the job was Chip Kelly and they also interviewed Penn State HC Bill O’Brien for the job as well. The Browns have some solid in-house candidates as well including DC Ray Horton and OC Norv Turner. We’ll have more regarding this topic as the news is available.
My first question is that who in the FO is "floating" this rumor? Because these two guys didn't make this up out of thin air. Somebody gave them a tip.
Is someone in the FO trying to cover their butt? Does somebody have an axe to grind? No doubt the coaching staff shares some of the blame for this year's record. But they can only play the players they are given and they can't really control the effort level (or lack thereof) that has been displayed in the last 3 weeks or so.
Quote: I will be extremely ......... mad ...... if we fire a young head coach with a team that lacks talent after 1 freakin' year.
Good lord ...... this is an improvement.
exactly. sorry but this is a stupid rumor.
and if it ends up being true, thats even worse. they installed 2 whole systems this year, chud and the coaches certainly deserve 2 more years at least.
Let me add that if they fire Chud after one year I'm done as a Browns fan. I cannot and will not support an organization that can't find it's own ass with both hands and a road map.....
What a joke we'd be if we fire our new head coach after 1 year .... because we "couldn't hire who we wanted".
The Browns fired head coaches every couple of years for years ....... and that has to play into a potential head coach's consideration of coming here. This front office was going to be different ...... and I think even then they still struggled selling potential candidates that they will be allowed to put their program in place without worrying about being fired 2 years down the road, as has become our pattern.
If we fire Chud after only 1 year, we'll be an incredible joke. Who will trust that they will get any opportunity to work the kinks out of their program ..... especially if they don't have their QB in the 1st year?
12:43 p.m.: Dan Pompei, a veteran NFL writer now working for Bleacher Report, has an interesting take on the status of Browns head coach Rob Chudzinski.
"No one is talking about the Browns making a head-coaching change, but if they do it won't surprise some people around the league. The reason is not that Rob Chudzinski has done a poor job, though. It's that the Browns didn't get who they wanted a year ago. The new Browns management team went after Chip Kelly, Jon Gruden and Nick Saban last off-season and might be inclined to make another pitch for a big name. ... Another interesting point: Money is not an issue to team owner Jimmy Haslam, so having to pay off the last three years of Chudzinski's contract probably would not deter him from making a move."
this team is playing with no emotion. that falls on the head coach. he should have had these guys foaming at the mouth to beat the Steelers. the only one trying is Edwin Baker.
good riddance if its true, if not Chud you got some serious work to do in your coaching style.
Lombardi and Banner is the worst front office ever hired here in Cleveland. Now it looks like they are making the coach a scap goat for how inept their offseason was!!!!
You get a roster that has 4th place talent and are expected to finish 1st or 2nd....and if you don't, you get fired in 1-2 years.
If I'm a guy looking for a job, I'm not going there.
Yep. Especially if you are looking for your 1st head coach position. Why ruin your future by coming to the ultimately dysfunctional team? Bust ass with your current position, and try for a better spot next year. Why go somewhere that can ruin your career for life?
This team makes it so hard to root for if this is true. If this unfolds, I may just cut the noose. You can't play good when you have sucky players. We released Chris Owens, but there is no depth to do any better. Our QB situation of three, the only hope outta that group was destroyed with an injury. The other two have sucked and there is no way any team would do good with that kinda play at QB.
Quote: Lombardi and Banner is the worst front office ever hired here in Cleveland. Now it looks like they are making the coach a scap goat for how inept their offseason was!!!!
Well, let's just see if it comes to fruition. Who knows, with such an outcry of discontent, owners/FO have been known to listen to the fans......
You get a roster that has 4th place talent and are expected to finish 1st or 2nd....and if you don't, you get fired in 1-2 years.
If I'm a guy looking for a job, I'm not going there.
Yep. Especially if you are looking for your 1st head coach position. Why ruin your future by coming to the ultimately dysfunctional team? Bust ass with your current position, and try for a better spot next year. Why go somewhere that can ruin your career for life?
The Browns will likely have to hire another bottom barrel HC like that twerp Josh McDaniels for example. If this FO couldn't attract and hire a HC they truly wanted the last go around, I have zero confidence they'd be able to get their guy this time.
Not only that, but firing Chud now speaks volumes about the decision making ability or complete lack thereof in this front office.
Well, if he is dismissed then who do we bring in? Some reports say McDaniels (OMG BLAH!) or Bill O'Brian (Thought he was getting the Texans Job). I know who we're going to get. It's going to be Gruden.
Quote: Well, if he is dismissed then who do we bring in? Some reports say McDaniels (OMG BLAH!) or Bill O'Brian (Thought he was getting the Texans Job). I know who we're going to get. It's going to be Gruden.
Great. Let's go back to the WCO and the 4-3 defense.
That would make sense for this stupid team though.
Well, so many supported the trade rumors of Josh Gordon simply because it would make him mentally tougher. Maybe the same applies to coaches. Who knows, this could be a SOP for the front office.
I remember when Banner was hired , I said " really " ... Then when he brought in Lombo i said " no way you throw him in the fans face " .. Thats when I first questioned Haslam as an owner ..
I'm not in favor of the move, but if it is true it would not be based on this years record. Rather I would guess it has to do with what the FO is seeing as far as things like leadership, accountability, etc.. Basically, they would feel he doesn't have the personality traits to be a successful HC......problem with that is they hired him a year ago. Either way you slice it not a good start for the new FO at all.
The report is that since they couldn;t hire the guy they wanted last year, they see Chud as a one year fill in till they can get the guy they really want.
Quote: The report is that since they couldn;t hire the guy they wanted last year, they see Chud as a one year fill in till they can get the guy they really want.
Quote: The report is that since they couldn;t hire the guy they wanted last year, they see Chud as a one year fill in till they can get the guy they really want.
If true, that would be asinine.
What I seeing being reported by folks like Albert Breer, Ian Rapaport etc., is that the FO soured on Chud because of the team's lack of effort and lack of accountability and his indecisiveness in critical moments. Additionally, the second half collapse of the team is also a contributing factor.
Quote: I'm not in favor of the move, but if it is true it would not be based on this years record. Rather I would guess it has to do with what the FO is seeing as far as things like leadership, accountability, etc.. Basically, they would feel he doesn't have the personality traits to be a successful HC......problem with that is they hired him a year ago. Either way you slice it not a good start for the new FO at all.
This makes too much sense for most of the board to accept.
Nothing like hamstringing your new coach by taking away draft choices and trading your first round draft choice 3 weeks into the season, then blaming a poor season on him.
When your best RB is a guy we sign off another team's practice squad in what .... week 13 ...... and our best QB (before he got hurt) is a guy who was cut by the Cardinals in training camp ...... tthen you have major problems. Sorry, but no one wins in that situation.
While I don't agree with Chud going fr it all the time on 4th down, today I don't mind. He is being aggressive, and trying to convey an aggressive mindset to his team.
A few weeks ago Banner loved Chud, and spoke very highly of him.
Man .... I am just so incredibly ticked off by this whole stupidity.
Rumor has it there was a first half Sunday at Heinz Field. I spent it watching Jason Campbell look like he wanted to come in out of the cold while I monitored “reports” that Rob Chudzinski’s job is under review.
Chudzinski’s first season has been a brutal one. The front office should send the message any way it feels necessary that much better will be expected from this team in 2014.
The second worst thing the new regime can do is speak to Browns’ fans next week at the annual blood-letting/press conference and send a message of ho-hum-we-knew-this-would-be-a-tough-year.
The worst thing it can do is fire another Browns’ head coach. Because if that happens, it’s not just a reflection on Chudzinski but on a front office that would be admitting it whiffed in its first big decision.
A front office that promised you’d see it make “smart decision” very soon after taking over from Mike Holmgren and Tom Heckert.
You don’t hire a rookie head coach absolutely nobody else is interviewing, openly vow stability, then turn around and fire him after one season for looking like a rookie coach.
One season in which you gave him no help in the draft.
One season in which you traded away the No. 1 running back after two weeks and never tried to bolster the running game with a fullback.
Jimmy Haslam and Joe Banner can’t possibly be happy with what they’ve seen over the past two months.
It’s been a brutal year for Chudzinski.
It’s also been a team effort that includes the front office.
Certainly we'll all wait to make any decisions we feel need to be made. But when they said "No Comment" when they could have at least made a half-hearted attempt to back their HC DURING a game.....That pretty much says it all.
Let's see ...... we like the Penn State coach ..... but he chose to stay at Penn State last year .... but I''m sure he'd be happy to come to a stable situation here after we fire our head coach after 1 year.
ESPN's John Clayton tweeted that he's hearing the same thing, and NFL Network's Albert Breer tweeted that these are the problems the front office has with Chudzinski: players not being held accountable, and a lack of decisiveness at big moments.
Breer reports that if Chudzinski is fired, New England's Josh McDaniels and Penn State's Bill O'Brien would likely top the list.
Here are some things I've been hearing:
• Browns CEO Joe Banner liked McDaniels even years ago when he was in Philadelphia.
• O'Brien will most likely go to Houston. He interviewed with the Browns last year, but opted to stay at Penn State.
• Browns general manager Mike Lombardi likes O'Brien, but he'd be more likely to go to Houston, a source said.
• Profootballtalk.com reported that O'Brien parted ways with agent Joe Linta and is now represented by Cleveland-based Neil Cornrich.
• Cornrich also works with Bill Belichick and goes way back with Lombardi.
• I heard last week that there was an issue with Browns offensive coordinator Norv Turner, possibly involving a change in job description regarding his son, Scott, the Browns receivers coach.
• I also heard that the Browns wanted Chudzinski to hold some players, such as Greg Little, more accountable -- perhaps even cut him during the season. (ME) Why? From all reports, Little hasn't had a work problem. He's had an ability problem. He has talent, but has had issues putting it all together. What message would cutting him in the middle of the season convey? Work hard, and we'll cut you if you don't play well ..... but Bes should get a pass because this front office brought him in?
* Browns owner Jimmy Haslam was particularly steamed after last week's 24-13 loss to the Jets, unhappy with the team's effort.
* Chudzinski and Lombardi have clashed recently .(Well, this might be the real reason)
Stay tuned for more on the Chudzinski reports and rumors.
Man, I hate the idea of hiring a guy who failed so completely in Denver. McDanielshad a talented team in Denver, and wanted his QB ..... Tim Tebow. Let's go hire him ...... he's a great judge of QB talent ...... :bickwall:
Quote: This says way more about the FO than it says about Chud. Especially if they have a guy all lined up already.
Not to mention this starts the reboot/house cleaning/whatever you call it all over again.
I'm done. I cannot follow a team that's this stupid.
if this is true ... and I highly doubt it is ... unless Chud wanted out for some reason I will be following U out the door .... this move would just be the last straw ...
I don't care if he did Lombardi, Banners or Haslams wife ... U keep him and Norv and Horton if possible .. there the 3 best parts of our entire org. ...
I see no scenario in witch this is true ... NONE ... so its prolly true ..
.." I don't care if he did Lombardi, Banners or Haslams wife ... U keep him and Norv and Horton if possible .. there the 3 best parts of our entire org. ..."
I have felt this way from the beginning .. Problem is that Banner Has Haslam hood winked !
Quote: Remember when everyone was so happy when the Browns hired Lombardi? Oh wait, that was nobody (well, maybe Vers)
I don't think that anyone was thrilled with the Lombardi hire, but some of us figured we might as well see how it goes, and give him a "clean slate", especially since we, as fans, can do nothing about it.
Quote: Remember when everyone was so happy when the Browns hired Lombardi? Oh wait, that was nobody (well, maybe Vers)
I don't think that anyone was thrilled with the Lombardi hire, but some of us figured we might as well see how it goes, and give him a "clean slate", especially since we, as fans, can do nothing about it.
clean slate? he had a history of being completely trash. there was no reason to believe he would change. and if these rumors are true, then you guys thinking this definitely got played.
I never got a handle on the Haslam /Banner hook up .. Yea , I read the reports that the NFL brass put them together ... Still not sure what Haslam thought he was buying in Banner ..
It's funny how something small instantly changes your perception. Earlier today I was following all of the games to see how our draft position might end up. The game started to get away so I looked into transferring my old retirement funds from when I taught in Alabama like I've been meaning to do lately.
I come back on and then I notice statements like "if the rumors are true" and started looking into it only to find this info. Suddenly I'm not longer watching other games, the Red Zone channel gets changed on the TV, and I stop even paying attention to the game.
Another HC change makes me completely uninterested in the off-season. I no longer care about how the draft shapes out, who we get in free agency, and if we re-sign our guys. If it happens, way to finally make me uninterested .
Quote: Remember when everyone was so happy when the Browns hired Lombardi? Oh wait, that was nobody (well, maybe Vers)
I don't think that anyone was thrilled with the Lombardi hire, but some of us figured we might as well see how it goes, and give him a "clean slate", especially since we, as fans, can do nothing about it.
clean slate? he had a history of being completely trash. there was no reason to believe he would change. and if these rumors are true, then you guys thinking this definitely got played.
How? By hoping for the best?
I know ...if only we'd been more pessimistic, then things would have been better ........ somehow ....... I guess ...........
Quote: Remember when everyone was so happy when the Browns hired Lombardi? Oh wait, that was nobody (well, maybe Vers)
I don't think that anyone was thrilled with the Lombardi hire, but some of us figured we might as well see how it goes, and give him a "clean slate", especially since we, as fans, can do nothing about it.
clean slate? he had a history of being completely trash. there was no reason to believe he would change. and if these rumors are true, then you guys thinking this definitely got played.
How? By hoping for the best?
I know ...if only we'd been more pessimistic, then things would have been better ........ somehow ....... I guess ...........
thats not what i'm saying. what i'm saying is how could we expect him to be any better.
we have no control on who gets hired. so while i understand why you HOPED he would be different, the reality is he sucks, so when fans act surprised when reality kicks in, i'm confused, knowing the history of him.
that goes to banner as well. lombardi has a history of being craptastic, how does he expect him to be any different? because he's in charge now?
Needless to say, if this move is made, I will be very disappointed. Hate to keep guys around for the sake of keeping them around, but yeesh.
No chance.
If they aren't happy with the team in general, then they cannot be happy with the defense in which they invested so heavily.
One thing mentioned was that Haslam was disappointed in us losing to the Jets. I wonder if he saw them knock the Dolphins out of the playoffs today, on the road, to go to 8-8?
First off, I completely agree that firing a new head coach after one single season is absolutely ridiculous!!!
That being said..... if your not sold on your coach and it is a certainty that your org is going to draft a QB in the first round, it "could" be best to make the coaching change during that pre draft off season. Just food for thought. Since QB's and coaches are tied so closely together.
If they fire Chud after 1 year, as a rookie head coach, the whole FO needs to go. If he wasn't your coach why did you hire him? I know it's a results business but I have been enthused by the performances this year more than any year I can recall excluding when DA did a deal with the tooth fairy.
FAs will not choose to come here.
Coaches and staff - I mean elite personnel - will not come to an organisation who behaves with such moral apathy.
I will root and watch the Browns forever and a day but even I can see that if they fire Chud, short of hiring Billy boy from NE, we will AGAIN be at square 1. The most galling thing is - we had started to look like we weren't too far away - genuinely and for the long term.
Quote: If they fire Chud after 1 year, as a rookie head coach, the whole FO needs to go. If he wasn't your coach why did you hire him?
Which is why I don't think it is gonna happen.
But I do think there is something going on between coaches and FO....just not sure what it is OR what it is about. However, I do have my guesses, but that's not relevant at this point.
Needless to say, if this move is made, I will be very disappointed. Hate to keep guys around for the sake of keeping them around, but yeesh.
No chance.
If they aren't happy with the team in general, then they cannot be happy with the defense in which they invested so heavily.
One thing mentioned was that Haslam was disappointed in us losing to the Jets. I wonder if he saw them knock the Dolphins out of the playoffs today, on the road, to go to 8-8?
Yeah i would think if anyone would be more likely to get fired it would probably be horton. His gameplans/playcalling cost us at least 4 games down the stretch.. that can't look good to haslam and co
Quote: The report I just posted said that Chud and Lombardi have clashed lately. That could be the real reason behind this.
If the HC and GM clash, the GM, who the President went out on a very thin limb to hire, is most likely to survive.
If it's a power struggle and our coaches get fired after 1 year because of lombardi..........screw it. I won't be going to a game next year, let alone 3.
If they fire Chud.......they'd damn well better finish 12-4 at a minimum for me to ever buy tickets again, let alone more Browns stuff. Jimmy better think this over real well. He stands to lose a lot of butts in the seats, and a lot of Browns gear sold.
True. But you're a Vegas guy....what are the odds that we fire our coaching staff and turn around and have a winning season? Keeping in mind who we have doing the drafting.....
Quote: The report is that since they couldn;t hire the guy they wanted last year, they see Chud as a one year fill in till they can get the guy they really want.
If true, that would be asinine.
Not really.....you need someone to be the head coach.
I am not in favor of it, but unlike many, I do like the fact we won't settle.
As someome said, I don't think it is about the record. It has to be in the way Chud runs the team as far as direction, accountability. And, unlike others, I am not upset with them making a mistake in the hire, if it was ahd he is canned. I'd be more upset if they stuck with a failed decision. Anybody can make a wrong choice or make a mistake. Sticking with that decision or mistake is what ticks me off.
I like Chud. But if he is burned for this crappy season, it is not about getting the BIG name. The next coach, OK. But the one AFTER that? Good luck ever getting a competent guy. This sucks if true. Maybe that is why the bet was hedged with Turner & Horton.
I didn't expect radical improvement and success this year. I DID expect more improvement than I saw. And less backsliding.
If the move is made for Josh McD it is an unnecessary, stupid move. Obrien has been a fairly oft mentioned, hot commodity lately. More appealing? Maybe, but I still say poor, hapless QB play has sunk this season and sapped the hopes of this team right down the line.
If they fire chud you can kiss mack and ward goodbye. You can count on a LOT of our players refusing to resign in the future as well. Players have been VERY vocal about how much they love chud.
Turner will be gone too. Chud is his protege and I guarantee he won't put up with the kind of treatment. No real coaches are going to come to replace him either after seeing Chud treated that bad. It's flat out ridiculous.
This season is more of a failure by the front office than the coaching. They did little and next to NOTHING to help the offense in the off season and the draft.
But you have no REAL way of knowing how much of a motivator Chud actually is. You're just making assumptions on what you think you've seen. May I remind you how sure you were that Mangini was the answer.
Unless you've been around the team and in the lockerroom you (or I) have no idea what kind of coach Chud is as far as leadership and motivation goes. None. We can only guess. I'm willing to give the guy a pass in his rookie year. Especially with the QB hand he was dealt. The pass is over but he still should be the HC. Anything else is wrong and even the most ardent FO groupie knows it. Even if they'll never admit it.
And if it turns out that Chud gets fired because of a disagreement with Lombardi on who to play at QB this year not only will I stop supporting the Browns I will actively root against them until Lombardi is sent back to the NFL Network where he belongs.
Quote: I like Chud. But if he is burned for this crappy season, it is not about getting the BIG name. The next coach, OK. But the one AFTER that? Good luck ever getting a competent guy. This sucks if true. Maybe that is why the bet was hedged with Turner & Horton.
I didn't expect radical improvement and success this year. I DID expect more improvement than I saw. And less backsliding.
I don't buy that theory. First, all head coaches are convinced they can win and don't shy away from a job because they might be fired. Second, as long as they have their contract, they don't really care. Most coaches know the odds are it is a short term proposition, so as long as they have their 4-5 year deal inked....who cares? I will bet there are a lot of people on this board who wouldn't mind being canned from their job knowing they were going to get paid at full salary for the next 2-3 years.
A former NFL head coach can always find a coaching job unless he did something illegal. A good paying job to be sure.
Who wouldn't mind a 2 year paid vacation after the 2 month bruised ego?
I never liked Lombardi and I am no fan of Banner. Haslam is nothing but a crook. The one redeeming quality for this group was the hiring of Chud and this staff. If they fire Chud, I will never again cheer for the Browns. I have pretty much had it with this team anyway and if they fire Chud it will be no problem walking away from the Browns.
Chatting with you guys has been the only decent thing about the Browns over the last dozen years anyway.
Reporters can report this crap all they one. I rather wait til it offical from the Browns org. Just cuz they said NO COMMENT doesn't mean a thing to me.
If this happens, it has Mike Lombardi written all over it. Its his modus operandi. He is a long time back-stabbing crapweasel of epic proportions. Ask Ernie Accorsi. Ask Bernie Kosar.
Haslam can't be this stupid, is what I'm holding onto, at least until I find out that he is.
Quote: I never liked Lombardi and I am no fan of Banner. Haslam is nothing but a crook. The one redeeming quality for this group was the hiring of Chud and this staff. If they fire Chud, I will never again cheer for the Browns. I have pretty much had it with this team anyway and if they fire Chud it will be no problem walking away from the Browns.
Chatting with you guys has been the only decent thing about the Browns over the last dozen years anyway.
I've enjoyed talking with you too, but I am not a fan because of Chud. Let's just see how things pan out before we start jumping off bridges.
Quote: But you have no REAL way of knowing how much of a motivator Chud actually is. You're just making assumptions on what you think you've seen. May I remind you how sure you were that Mangini was the answer.
Unless you've been around the team and in the lockerroom you (or I) have no idea what kind of coach Chud is as far as leadership and motivation goes. None. We can only guess. I'm willing to give the guy a pass in his rookie year. Especially with the QB hand he was dealt. The pass is over but he still should be the HC. Anything else is wrong and even the most ardent FO groupie knows it. Even if they'll never admit it.
And if it turns out that Chud gets fired because of a disagreement with Lombardi on who to play at QB this year not only will I stop supporting the Browns I will actively root against them until Lombardi is sent back to the NFL Network where he belongs.
Here are my answers to all of your questions/thoughts.
1. I think Chud has been the worst head coach in the NFL this year. 32 of 32.
2. I won't lose much sleep if he's fired.
3. How do I know if he's a good motivator or leader since I'm not in the locker room? How do we know if Bellyache is if we aren't in the NE locker room? Really odd question.
4. Having said all that I wasn't happy to read the report this morning. I would prefer some continuity and to see if Chud can improve in his second year. I think that's best for the Browns.
1. I think Chud has been the worst head coach in the NFL this year. 32 of 32
Haven't watched Houston,Jacksonville,Dallas or Detroit (to mention just a few) have you?
Quote:
2. I won't lose much sleep if he's fired.
LOL....I won't lose sleep if I get fired. What would be the point?
Quote:
3. How do I know if he's a good motivator or leader since I'm not in the locker room? How do we know if Bellyache is if we aren't in the NE locker room? Really odd question.
Not odd. Was Belichick a terrible coach when he was here or did he just lack a decent QB? (Sorry Bernie) By your "logic" he never should have gotten the NE job.
Quote: 5. I was drinking a lot when Mangini was coach.
Quote: Chatting with you guys has been the only decent thing about the Browns over the last dozen years anyway.
Ditto. And IF they fire Chud I am done as well. I was not happy Crennell did not get another shot. But understood. I was almost there after they fired Mangini which I think was a mistake then. Then we got Shurmered which made Mangigni look like we had Parcells. I wanted to hold over Rob Ryan. I think that was another Browns FO mistake.
Seems we are still in this frikken groundhog day timewarp loop. I do not know if the FO and League just find it funny to keep the Cleveland fans in this state because it creates a story line or what. But If this is what they call change for the better. I say no thanks. I have seen this movie already. It would as bad the 7th time as it was the first. ( I am not counting Robiskie ) But 7 is the lucky number. Right?
Two things ...I would lose sleep if I get fired and Shurmur never had a QB either.
No need to lose sleep after the fact if you weren't losing sleep before the fact.
Your claim that you can tell what kind of a motivator/leader a guy is rests on Pat Shurmur's failure? A guy that pretty much only Mike Holmgren thought would succeed. Sure you wanna go with that?
Two things ...I would lose sleep if I get fired and Shurmur never had a QB either.
No need to lose sleep after the fact if you weren't losing sleep before the fact.
Your claim that you can tell what kind of a motivator/leader a guy is rests on Pat Shurmur's failure? A guy that pretty much only Mike Holmgren thought would succeed. Sure you wanna go with that?
So, are you giving up your seats? I'll miss seeing you a time or two a year, be it a few words in the lower concourse.
Someone should compile a list of those that say they won't be back if Chud's fired. I'll be cheering for the Browns no matter how crappy they play, and so will everybody else here. It's in our blood, however sad that may be lol. I won't go to many games until they start winning, but I'll always be a Browns fan. The Browns are bigger than whoever the coach or GM are.
I was seriously thinking about dumping my seats anyway. I just can't take this constant stomach punch every Sunday from September to January. But I've talked myself out of this feeling before. (Almost every season.... )
But honestly, if they fire Chud I'm definitely done. Another HC means another set of wholesale changes. And more losing. Unless it comes out that he's being fired because he made a pass at Jimmy's wife at the Christmas party then the only reason he's being fired is to cover their asses. Period. They supplied the QB's and RB's he "got" to coach so I assume if he goes, then they'll fire themselves, too. No? Didn't think so.
I'll still check in on the guys here occasionally but I can't root for a team run by self-serving idiots.
All's cool man.. We all reach a point. My point is when I move to Venice, Fla for good. Then I can say I live too far away to hold season tickets. As of now I live inside 600 miles(barely) and can't.
Quote: The Browns are bigger than whoever the coach or GM are.
Actually, they have been smaller than whoever the coach or GM are .......
As far as blasting people for saying things out of frustration ... why bother? Make lists? Who cares?
Earlier today I was ready to turn the NFL off and never turn a game on ever again. (Browns or otherwise) My emotions have calmed somewhat, I will still be madder than hell if the Browns fire Chud, but I've been a tortured fan for decades and decades ....... I checked ...... I've been a fan since 1977 ..... and in all those seasons we have had exactly 10 winning seasons. Bleh. However, I have hung in this long, and I assume that I will continue for a while longer. Maybe one day I'll get disgusted enough to walk away forever. If other people have reached that point now, I can't blame them. We are a perpetually losing team. We make stupid decision after stupid decision. Oh well ..... that's the price of being a Cleveland Browns fan. We know we're going to lose a lot of games ..... often in stupid ways ...... and that the team is going to stink. If anything different happens, it's a nice surprise ..... but nothing to count on long term. We have a long track record of bad football mixed in with a few seasons where we were somewhat better than normal. I cannot blame anyone if that wears on them and creates massive frustration. Hell, I'm frustrated too.
I don't want Urban Meyer he almost had a heart attack thinking abouit having to square off with Nick Saban again while at Florida. What do you think he would do seeing Bill Belichick on the other side line.
Rob Chudzinski will be fired after just one season as head coach of the Cleveland Browns, league sources told ESPN.
The Browns are expected to make Chudzinski's firing official early this week, a source added.
[+] EnlargeRob Chudzinski Ron Schwane/USA TODAY Sports The Browns will fire Rob Chudzinski after just one season, according to sources. Chudzinski was hired Jan. 11 after the Browns fired Pat Shurmur less than a year ago. The Browns, including owner Jimmy Haslam, became convinced they made a mistake and did not want to continue down their current path with Chudzinski, sources said.
The Browns plan to commence their head-coaching search immediately. Last year they interviewed Bill O'Brien, Ken Whisenhunt and Chip Kelly, whom they regret not being able to hire.
The Browns finished 4-12 in Chudzinski's only season as head coach.
The first-year head coach had to deal with an unsettled quarterback situation as the Browns started three different players at the position, going with Brandon Weeden in the season opener, turning to Brian Hoyer shortly afterward before he suffered a season-ending knee injury and ending the season with veteran Jason Campbell.
This will represent the third time the Browns have gotten rid of Chudzinski, who grew up a Browns fan in Toledo, Ohio.
Chudzinski coached the Browns tight ends for Butch Davis in 2004, and then returned to the team in 2007 to serves two seasons as offensive coordinator under Romeo Crennel.
Spineless. Once again the weasels are not true to their WORD. So much for "consensus", lol That nice "idea" didn't last long, did it?
Exactly what I expected out of this bunch of ego tripping idiots. They needed an easy scapegoat to cover their fail job and mis-evaluation this offseason.
And I thought it couldn't get more embarrassing than the game today before I saw this thread after the game….
Regardless of Chud staying or going, I want the Turners gone. If not for Gordon, this would have been the worst offense ever. The play calling was putrid, especially today.
Quote: Someone should compile a list of those that say they won't be back if Chud's fired. I'll be cheering for the Browns no matter how crappy they play, and so will everybody else here. It's in our blood, however sad that may be lol. I won't go to many games until they start winning, but I'll always be a Browns fan. The Browns are bigger than whoever the coach or GM are.
Arch and his wife. Make that the first note. We'll still go to Cleveland. Hang out and party Saturday night. Hit some tailgates Sunday morning........then we'll probably head home and listen to the game on the radio.
We always have a good time sat. night and at the tailgate Sunday morning.
But, like I said, IF they fire chud and the coaching staff, the damn well better finish 12-4 or better in regular season.
I doubt I'll physically attend a game next year, or years after, if they fire Chud and don't end up producing a winner.
Jimmy has some big decisions to make. I hope he makes them wisely. The paying public is watching.
Gotta edit this to say I will be watching on tv........but I'm dead serious about not attending games if they fire chud and end up not winning. We'll go to Cleveland and spend our money.........just not on Browns tickets.
I've only been going to 1 game a year for quite some time, but I'm still a Browns fan and will continue to be. If they start winning consistently, I'll go to more games.
Quarterback...the reason for all of this. These guys couldn't rally behind nor have any hopes for either Weeden or JC. Hoyer may or may not have been lightening in a bottle. My guess is he would have cooled off. Regardless, once he went down, this FO did NOTHING to bring a strong backup in therefore putting the screws to Chud and company.
Who in their right mind would think this the idea spot to coach?!
isn't it weird how chud was the OC in carolina, and they went 7-9?
they have a new OC, and this year they have no less than a 2nd round bye?
crazy.,
Not really.
Defense is carrying that team this year. They have actually dropped in offensive and scoring rankings from last year to this year. Last year they were 12th in yards on offense, and 18th in points scored. This year they are 25th in yards on offense, and 19th in scoring.
Last year the Panthers allowed 363 points. This year they have allowed 241. They scored 357 pints last year, and have scored 366 this year.
Last year Newton threw 19 TD with 12 INT. This year it was 22 TD and 12 INT.
Wasnt long ago haslam promised the fans stability lol that didnt take long. As for the turners, no oc is gonna look good with neither a qb nor a rb. BTW not long ago everyone was saying this team had no talent, We get 5 or 6 guys into the pro bowl and we want to fire the HC lol. hilariously pathetic
isn't it weird how chud was the OC in carolina, and they went 7-9?
they have a new OC, and this year they have no less than a 2nd round bye?
crazy.,
Not really.
Defense is carrying that team this year. They have actually dropped in offensive and scoring rankings from last year to this year. Last year they were 12th in yards on offense, and 18th in points scored. This year they are 25th in yards on offense, and 19th in scoring.
Last year the Panthers allowed 363 points. This year they have allowed 241. They scored 357 pints last year, and have scored 366 this year.
Last year Newton threw 19 TD with 12 INT. This year it was 22 TD and 12 INT.
Defense turned things around in Carolina.
so cam and his late game comebacks, his 6 games with a 100 passer rating or more had nothing to do with it, there rushing game either?
Jimmy haslam i have a feeling is going to be allot like Jerry Jones and Al Davis...AND THATS NOT GOOD................banner is a tyrant and a jerk....and lombardi thinks he is the smartest football man on earth. Mingo looks like the next wimbley...which is sad because wimbley had a better rookie year. Mcfadden looks like nothing more then a special teams player at best.......
Banner and Lombardi are firing Chud for not tanking the season when they traded away Richardson and inserted a 3rd string QB. They wanted the #1 pick and when Chud found a way to win it spelled dome for him.
Quote: Jimmy haslam i have a feeling is going to be allot like Jerry Jones and Al Davis...AND THATS NOT GOOD................banner is a tyrant and a jerk....and lombardi thinks he is the smartest football man on earth. Mingo looks like the next wimbley...which is sad because wimbley had a better rookie year. Mcfadden looks like nothing more then a special teams player at best.......
I am starting to think that Banner is Pig Face in drag.
Quote: I don't want Urban Meyer he almost had a heart attack thinking abouit having to square off with Nick Saban again while at Florida. What do you think he would do seeing Bill Belichick on the other side line.
I agree on Urban.....I like the man and appreciate what he did for my team, but he left for easy pickings....JMO
I'm taking next year off with the option for years 2 & 3. I will come back if they turn it around but face it, they won't. Not like this. No good team does this stuff and no team that runs things this way gets good. Whatever. It's not About Chud personally. I actually do like him but again, whatever. It's about the relentless mess. Hey, they picked a guy a year ago that they were this wrong about this fast? We got a new owner and with him a new FO and we dared to dream that we wouldn't make the same mistakes over and over again and guess what.... It's worse, actually worse than it was before. 1 year? Lol. I just, I don't know man... I just don't have faith in this team, the group of guys in stearage. I'll never root for another team but I'm a busy guy and they're wearing me out. They're losing me. How about trying the one thing, the ONLY thing that hasn't been tried up to now. Back a guy and ride it out for 4 or 5 years. We really know NOTHING about Chud. You think you do but you don't. This is just so, so stupid.
Quote: Jimmy haslam i have a feeling is going to be allot like Jerry Jones and Al Davis...AND THATS NOT GOOD................banner is a tyrant and a jerk....and lombardi thinks he is the smartest football man on earth. Mingo looks like the next wimbley...which is sad because wimbley had a better rookie year. Mcfadden looks like nothing more then a special teams player at best.......
I am starting to think that Banner is Pig Face in drag.
the knock on banner was he cares about money to much, makes rash decisions, doesnt like players over the age of 29., doesnt care about how the players feel or the team.......AND......he fancy's himself a football guru.......
isn't it weird how chud was the OC in carolina, and they went 7-9?
they have a new OC, and this year they have no less than a 2nd round bye?
crazy.,
Not really.
Defense is carrying that team this year. They have actually dropped in offensive and scoring rankings from last year to this year. Last year they were 12th in yards on offense, and 18th in points scored. This year they are 25th in yards on offense, and 19th in scoring.
Last year the Panthers allowed 363 points. This year they have allowed 241. They scored 357 pints last year, and have scored 366 this year.
Last year Newton threw 19 TD with 12 INT. This year it was 22 TD and 12 INT.
Defense turned things around in Carolina.
so cam and his late game comebacks, his 6 games with a 100 passer rating or more had nothing to do with it, there rushing game either?
huh.
Sure he did. However, he really hasn't done much more than he did last year overall.
The defense is why they are winning games. They have allowed 122 less points this year than last. That is a major change ...... more than any change the QB has made.
Wow, that's really ballsy. Not sure how I feel about it but here are the facts.
We lost plenty of games late, that we should have won. We consistently had poor communication and constantly burned timeouts in the first and 3rd quarters because the offense couldn't get it figured out. We had a worse record than we did last year with arguably more talent.
Quote: Sticking with that decision or mistake is what ticks me off.
You mean like your Gators did with Muschamp...lol. Sorry low blow I know..lol.
No low blow....I don't like Muschump all that much, but our OC was a joke.....I am good with the Chump being given another year. We have had a pretty good recruiting year, and if you don't know, we did have a HIGH number of starters fall to injury.
According to Rappaport and some other NFL network guys, this is coming from Haslam because he didn't like the "fire" the team showed down the stretch, thought the adjustments were lacking, and he didn't hold players accountable.
In short, Jiimmy is way too involved if this is true.
Quote: According to Rappaport and some other NFL network guys, this is coming from Haslam because he didn't like the "fire" the team showed down the stretch, thought the adjustments were lacking, and he didn't hold players accountable.
In short, Jiimmy is way too involved if this is true.
If Haslam is making football decisions, we're screwed.
Quote: According to Rappaport and some other NFL network guys, this is coming from Haslam because he didn't like the "fire" the team showed down the stretch, thought the adjustments were lacking, and he didn't hold players accountable.
In short, Jiimmy is way too involved if this is true.
Quote: According to Rappaport and some other NFL network guys, this is coming from Haslam because he didn't like the "fire" the team showed down the stretch, thought the adjustments were lacking, and he didn't hold players accountable.
In short, Jiimmy is way too involved if this is true.
Maybe too soon to say if Haslam is too involed or not, but I agree it is probably Haslam....he wants to win. If nothing else, it's hard to sell ticket increases when the team keeps winning 4 games a year.
Quote: According to Rappaport and some other NFL network guys, this is coming from Haslam because he didn't like the "fire" the team showed down the stretch, thought the adjustments were lacking, and he didn't hold players accountable.
In short, Jiimmy is way too involved if this is true.
Quote: According to Rappaport and some other NFL network guys, this is coming from Haslam because he didn't like the "fire" the team showed down the stretch, thought the adjustments were lacking, and he didn't hold players accountable.
In short, Jiimmy is way too involved if this is true.
Maybe too soon to say if Haslam is too involed or not, but I agree it is probably Haslam....he wants to win. If nothing else, it's hard to sell ticket increases when the team keeps winning 4 games a year.
Here's an out of sight thought: How about winning games BEFORE you raise ticket prices? I know it seems odd in this day and age.......but, it would work.
Can't keep starting over from zero folks. It gets us......zero.
Haslem, keep your damn hands off of things. This aint a truck stop your daddy bought, bud.
Quote: According to Rappaport and some other NFL network guys, this is coming from Haslam because he didn't like the "fire" the team showed down the stretch, thought the adjustments were lacking, and he didn't hold players accountable.
In short, Jiimmy is way too involved if this is true.
Remember the big deal made early in Haslams tenure when he waved at a terrible play and everyone went crazy over it? Perhaps, yet again, Jimmy let his emotions run wild, made a comment and it got picked up and blown out of proportion.
Who knows. Media today are like buzzards and run with any little crumb.
Was this team more talented than last years squad? If not, then the front office didn't do their job. If the team was more talented than last year, then the coaching staff didn't get as much out of them as last years staff, so THEY didn't do their jobs. One way or the other someone screwed up. Unfortunately, for this Coaching staff the guy that decides who screwed up is Banner. He's not going to admit he has any blame in this...
I somehow don't believe Chud will be fired. Rumors have surrounded this team since Jimmy bought the club. 99.9% of them turned out to be false... but if they do flush Chud, good luck finding anyone that wants to coach for this franchise.
Quote: Was this team more talented than last years squad? If not, then the front office didn't do their job. If the team was more talented than last year, then the coaching staff didn't get as much out of them as last years staff, so THEY didn't do their jobs. One way or the other someone screwed up. Unfortunately, for this Coaching staff the guy that decides who screwed up is Banner. He's not going to admit he has any blame in this... .
This is what I have been saying all year. We got zero value out of players from last years draft. He did ok in FA but did not fill our gaping holes.
Hard to win when front office trades your best rb with no viable backup, use 3 qbs during the year, and completely ignore glaring holes on both sides of the ball. We still dont have a fullback on the team.
This move if true is completely outrageous. What this ownership and management team deserve, and really needs, is zero fans in the seats. Nothing short of total boycott. Until the fans revolt en mass, ownership and management will continue to treat the organization as their own personal ATM machine kept stocked by the "gullible rubes" that comprise its fanbase.
Quote: If they make a change, after only one year, then they are saying that the head coach is what held this team back.
With $40 million in cap room, and multiple extra draft picks, if they make a change, this team better win 10+ games next year.
And my ass will be sitting here waiting for that before I buy another ticket. Fire Chud? Put a winner on the table, immediately!!! Otherwise Jimmy? You're a southern boy that doesn't know squat about football.
I wasn't particularly fond of the hiring to begin with, I over reacted a bit at the beginning and even called it stupid on here. But that was a stupid comment.
The guy made some bad decisions, especially on the time management side of things. But overall I think he earned at least more than a year with the hand he was dealt injury/talent wise.
This move if true is completely outrageous. What this ownership and management team deserve, and really needs, is zero fans in the seats. Nothing short of total boycott. Until the fans revolt en mass, ownership and management will continue to treat the organization as their own personal ATM machine kept stocked by the "gullible rubes" that comprise its fanbase.
and if the fans disown the team, they'll simply move the team.
This move if true is completely outrageous. What this ownership and management team deserve, and really needs, is zero fans in the seats. Nothing short of total boycott. Until the fans revolt en mass, ownership and management will continue to treat the organization as their own personal ATM machine kept stocked by the "gullible rubes" that comprise its fanbase.
That'll be the day. Many problems could be solved by this or something similar. Wont happen though. Too bad too.
This move if true is completely outrageous. What this ownership and management team deserve, and really needs, is zero fans in the seats. Nothing short of total boycott. Until the fans revolt en mass, ownership and management will continue to treat the organization as their own personal ATM machine kept stocked by the "gullible rubes" that comprise its fanbase.
and if the fans disown the team, they'll simply move the team.
Quote: According to Rappaport and some other NFL network guys, this is coming from Haslam because he didn't like the "fire" the team showed down the stretch, thought the adjustments were lacking, and he didn't hold players accountable.
In short, Jiimmy is way too involved if this is true.
Are any of those complaints false? I sure as hell didn't like the fire this team showed. Our "attack" defense sure didn't do much attacking. We got two more sacks this year than last. We gave up 13 more sacks than last year. We spent a hell of a lot of money and a high first draft pick for two extra sacks. As for holding players accountable, we sure played Mcslowly a lot considering his 2.5 ypc I actually thought perhaps Banner was making them play Willie Slow. Who knows? I know this team lost one more game than last years team did, so SOMEONE didn't do their job correctly. I know we threw 41 times again today. In Pittsburgh in the weather.
They won't fire Chud. This is just a rumor. No way they would admit making a mistake so early even if it was... Writers have to write something.... when they announce the firing I'll believe it. Until then its BS.
I thought everyone wanted a "hands on" owner? Randy was an absentee owner so a rah rah guy is just what we needed, right? The very first thing I thought when Jimmy was announced as owner? "Wild Bill" Burgess from the movie "Eddie". Trotting out on the court atop a horse with sneakers on and saying "howdy". All hat and no cattle...
Quote: If they do flush Chud, good luck finding anyone that wants to coach for this franchise.
Good luck finding fans who will continue to pay to watch this same movie at over full price year after year. You want to destroy what was once one of the most loyal fan bases in any sport. Keep "rebuilding" every 1-2 years.
It makes no sense. The one year we don't have large groups of people screaming for the coaches head.
And the coach who is generally liked. Gets canned during his evaluation year while he is evaluating which talent deserves to be on the field.
He can't make the team play with fire on the D side of the ball. And only had a couple people play with fire on the O side of the ball. There is NO leadership ON THE FIELD leading with any fire! That is something you have or have not. Kinda like the Baker kid. FO and Haslam are making a huge mistake if this is infact true.
Seems he did a good job evaluating 4 out of 5 Pro-bowlers. LAME. LAME . LAME!
This move if true is completely outrageous. What this ownership and management team deserve, and really needs, is zero fans in the seats. Nothing short of total boycott. Until the fans revolt en mass, ownership and management will continue to treat the organization as their own personal ATM machine kept stocked by the "gullible rubes" that comprise its fanbase.
That'll be the day. Many problems could be solved by this or something similar. Wont happen though. Too bad too.
Remember the paper bag days of the N.O. "Ain'ts"? If they insist on continuing to blow their money on tickets for this worthless POS team, then maybe the fans could all wear clown masks. Really own the "clown" moniker.
This move if true is completely outrageous. What this ownership and management team deserve, and really needs, is zero fans in the seats. Nothing short of total boycott. Until the fans revolt en mass, ownership and management will continue to treat the organization as their own personal ATM machine kept stocked by the "gullible rubes" that comprise its fanbase.
and if the fans disown the team, they'll simply move the team.
While I'm not thrilled about Chud as the headcoach after this season, firing him after one season just makes me embarrassed to be a fan of this team. We struck out on all our top choices last year, what makes anybody think the top coaching options this year would want to come to a team that's gone through seven coaches in fourteen years?
Another wasted year watching this "professional" team.
Please don't fire Chud. He was not given the talent to win this year. Of course he made some mistakes, but he should not be fired. I don't want to start all over and bring in all new coaches and schemes. Ridiculous. Let the players spend one training camp refining technique instead of learning a whole new scheme. Let the offense grow together with the starting QB. Weeden won't be back so somebody will get the reps needed to start to build some chemistry. Don't start over again!!!
Cleveland Browns head coach Rob Chudzinski will be fired, report says
PITTSBURGH -- Browns coach Rob Chudzinski will be fired, ESPN's Chris Mortensen reports, per his league sources.
The Browns stood by the statement they issued in the fourth quarter of the 20-7 loss to the Steelers when speculation was rampant. "Our focus is on the game today,'' the unattributed quote read. "We will not discuss any evaluation of the season until this upcoming week.'' Chudzinski and the Browns finished 4-12 this season, losing their last seven games. A source said Browns owner Jimmy Haslam was so disgusted during the 20-7 loss to the Steelers that he left with six minutes remaining. A meeting between the front office and Chudzinski is expected to take place on Monday.
Members of the national media have speculated that the Browns will go after Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, a graduate of Canton-McKinely High and John Carroll University, and Penn State's Bill O'Brien, the former Patriots offensive coordinator.
O'Brien, the frontrunner for the Texans' opening, interviewed for the Browns job last year, but he opted to stay at Penn State. The Browns sought to interview McDaniels for their opening last season, but he wasn't ready to leave New England yet.
A source told cleveland.com last season that McDaniels "would jump at the chance'' to take the Cleveland job when ready to return to the head-coaching ranks. McDaniels also got to know Lombardi through Lombardi's friendship with Bill Belichick.
Chudzinski said after the game that he'd be back "as far as I know'' and that he hadn't heard anything yet. He said speculation about his job "sort of comes with the territory.
Jason LaCanfora of CBS Sports also reported that Lions coach Jim Schwartz would be a candidate if he is fired. Lombardi also was close to Schwartz when they were in Cleveland together. National reports began circulating as early as Friday, from Dan Pompei of Bleacher Report, that the Browns were unhappy with Chudzinski, who was hired after the Browns interviewed at least five other candidates. The Browns did nothing to put the rumors to rest during the game, but sent out their statement in the fourth quarter. Chudzinski is not scheduled to address the media on Monday. Only players are set to be available. Team spokesman Zak Gilbert said the two issues are not linked and that Chudzinski was scheduled to talk on Tuesday.
Word from national reporters such as Albert Breer of NFL Network was that Chudzinski didn't hold players accountable enough and that he was indecisive in big moments.
Banner has second guessed the decision not to hire him from the start. It also removes some egg from the FO's face in the name of continuity.
Agreed. Horton or Turner would be the only way to salvage some continuity.
We must have quite the leaky FO for this story to have so many legs. It isn't a case of everyone quoting the same source as so many of these stories end up being.
So if you're actually a great coach but not close to Lombardi your chances are nil? They talked about Chud being the right choice last year, sure. keep Shurmer if this was the plan all along!
If this is true, it shows what a schmuck haslem is. To fire a coach after one year?
Maybe Jimmy's daddy oughta fire him for screwing companies out of money they were due. Maybe Jimmy's daddy oughta say "Jimmy, you brought it on yourself....my mony ain't saving you anymore."
Maybe we, as fans, give jimmy one more year before we fire him!
Fire Chud, Jimmy, you have exactly 1 year to put us in the playoffs. Fail - and you're donel
Quote: There was no agenda Lombardi has been terrible for years.
Banner was just carried by Andy Reid.
And these are the guys we all hope and pray can draft us a franchise quarterback next April. Isn't being a Browns fan FUN? They sure do make it hard to work up any enthusiasm for this team....
Might I recommend driving to Berea tomorrow and demanding a meeting with Haslem so you can say what you feel to his face and not just type it online? Take a breath man.
I'll get riled up if it becomes official. What's the worst that could come of it though - it'd just be like pushing around the garbage that's on fire in the dumpster... at the end of the day you still have a dumpster fire.
Quote: Might I recommend driving to Berea tomorrow and demanding a meeting with Haslem so you can say what you feel to his face and not just type it online? Take a breath man.
I'll get riled up if it becomes official. What's the worst that could come of it though - it'd just be like pushing around the garbage that's on fire in the dumpster... at the end of the day you still have a dumpster fire.
This move if true is completely outrageous. What this ownership and management team deserve, and really needs, is zero fans in the seats. Nothing short of total boycott. Until the fans revolt en mass, ownership and management will continue to treat the organization as their own personal ATM machine kept stocked by the "gullible rubes" that comprise its fanbase.
and if the fans disown the team, they'll simply move the team.
What team?
Why bother to post if that's how you feel?
To post how I feel, of course. Is it really that difficult to figure out?
This organization is a dumpster fire. Has been for years under different owners, different presidents and GM's, different coaches, different players...
If they make a change at head coach again, what's the worst that could happen?
Quote: Might I recommend driving to Berea tomorrow and demanding a meeting with Haslem so you can say what you feel to his face and not just type it online? Take a breath man.
I'll get riled up if it becomes official. What's the worst that could come of it though - it'd just be like pushing around the garbage that's on fire in the dumpster... at the end of the day you still have a dumpster fire.
You could recommend it, Mr. 5 year plan, 2 years down, 3 to go.
Don't tell me you'd be disappointed, if not upset, if haslem fires the coach................well, maybe......after all, you had a 5 year plan, and 2 of those years are down the drain, right?
There is still a chance for this to be changed, or ultimately wrong from the reports we've seen. Jay Glazer is reporting that Chud asked to move a meeting up w/ Browns's brass to tonight... we'll get confirmation soon...
Quote: this is BS!!! I'm a little hot right now...
Chud is a good coach.
I actually have major doubts about Chud and always have, but still think it is BS. jimmy's and mike thought he was up to the challenge a year ago, but now he isn't???? They are either correct that hiring Chud was such a huge mistake ( their mistake) that he has to let go now (probably what it is in my opinion) or this is a knee jerk emotional reaction by an owner. Either way it isn't good.
No way these guys lure a quality HC candidate like O'Brien here.....we struck out with big time guys before settling on Chud last year, and I imagine we will strike out again this time before settling on a JM type of clown.
Quote: There is still a chance for this to be changed, or ultimately wrong from the reports we've seen. Jay Glazer is reporting that Chud asked to move a meeting up w/ Browns's brass to tonight... we'll get confirmation soon...
He just wants to GTFO ASAP!!! Unhealthy, dysfunctional pit of doom.
Probably some truth to that mutt. The guy never had a chance to succeed.......and I am someone who questioned if he ever could succeed in the beginning. This team is utter crap from the top down. I hoped Lerner leaving would help change that, but Jimmy seems every bit as incompetent as his predecessor if this is true.
Still holding out hope this is false, but it don't look good.
I'm just saying take a breath. Talking about his daddy, southern boys don't know football - just wait to see if it happens. Or drive to Berea and talk to him face to face.
Quote: this is BS!!! I'm a little hot right now...
Chud is a good coach.
I actually have major doubts about Chud and always have, but still think it is BS. jimmy's and mike thought he was up to the challenge a year ago, but now he isn't???? They are either correct that hiring Chud was such a huge mistake ( their mistake) that he has to let go now (probably what it is in my opinion) or this is a knee jerk emotional reaction by an owner. Either way it isn't good.
No way these guys lure a quality HC candidate like O'Brien here.....we struck out with big time guys before settling on Chud last year, and I imagine we will strike out again this time before settling on a JM type of clown.
If Chud is fired nobody will come here. Then Lombardi can get his guy Schwartz in here. Sounds a lot like the same situation we just had with Shurmur and crew. My guys. my guys, my guys. Well. How about give "OUR GUYS" (you know, the players?) a chance to stay in the same system for more than a year or two? It is a wonder they look like chickens with their heads cut off out on the field. How much crap from 3 different philosophies is crammed in their heads? Then we wonder why we have no guys out there that just let their natural players instincts kick in. And why they are "overthinking" their play. Hmmm.
This is not rocket science. STOP REBUILDING! NOW THERE IS A NOVEL IDEA....
If this team fires Chud after just one year...i will just laugh...honestly....this has just gotten ridiculous!
We don't give anyone a chance....my god...this roster needs major overhauls at various positions....im talking 4 years at the very least is needed with the same coaching staff and fixing the roster...to much turnover here....
Firing Chud will be nothing but another long list of screw ups, knee-jerk reactions, and total idiocy on the part of this organization....its no wonder this team looks and plays like bumbling fools...no wonder the rest of the league laughs at us....
I'm just saying take a breath. Talking about his daddy, southern boys don't know football - just wait to see if it happens. Or drive to Berea and talk to him face to face.
ok so let me get this straight. We hire a new head coach, oc and dc. all new coaches. We install a new offense scheme and a new defensive scheme. We bring in some new def talent via FA. We disreguard the off for the most part. We draft basically all Def in the draft. Trade away out 4th and 5th rounds pick in that draft and increase them to 3rd and 4th's. season starts missing gordon and we have weeden at qb. We trade away our 1st rnd pick from the year before being out best rb on the roster. we do not fill that position with a quality rb to fill the hole we just created. weeden gets hurt and put Hoyer in. Hoyer plays qb in a system the way it is supposed to be played. we win 2 games. and he gets hurt. out for year. weeden gets put back in. he sucks again. we put campbell in and he basically sucks too. the off system is designed to throw down field with quick decisions and getting rid of the ball fast. both bw and jc cannot seem to do. because of this we have 3 and outs the def gets tired wdown the stretch of the game into the 4th qurater. we BLAME the def for it failure to hold a lead.
Yeah i dont see it as chuds fault 100% maybe about 2-=25% s his fault and about 75-80% on the front office for not giving him the time for the new systems installed and not giving him the talent. we do have talent and a pretty good chunk of it but the holes we need to be filled were obvious and t hat has been what has cost us games.
Chud does NOT deserve to be fired after 1 year. if the circumstances were different like its his 3rd year and he had the talent where the holes are. then yes i would support it but thats not the case.
In 2014??? I'll take that bet and give you 10:1 odds. The guy has had no success as a HC and his organization is willing to face a PR nightmare to rid themselves of him. He will be lucky to get an OC job next year, and have a chance to hopefully rebuild himself to the point were he can get another shot 3 or 4 years from now.
Cleveland Browns players reacted angrily to the mere notion that coach Rob Chudzinski could be fired following the team’s 4-12 season.
And when they spoke in the locker room after the season-ending loss to the Steelers, they weren’t even sure it would happen. As they spoke, there were only rumors about the possibility. By early evening, ESPN’s Chris Mortensen cited his sources in saying the decision was made and would be announced early this week.
The feelings of the players were evident, though.
“That’s ridiculous,” linebacker D'Qwell Jackson said.
“I’d be very surprised if they make a change,” tackle Joe Thomas said. “And disappointed.”
“I like coach Chud a lot,” said tight end Jordan Cameron. “He’s a great coach and he did a great job, and it’s his first year. I like the way he is. He’s a competitor and he’s a grinder.”
Cameron later added: “Guys deserve a chance to turn a program around and get things going, so (the possibility) is kind of shocking. I’m all for Chud and what he does, and support him 100 percent.”
Safety T.J. Ward, who could be a free agent, said the team believed in Chudzinski through the entire season.
“If we didn’t believe in him we wouldn’t have played for him,” Ward said. “You’d see a lot of rebelling and a lot of guys doing their own thing, and I don’t think that happened at all this year. It just didn’t happen the way we wanted it. When you have guys playing until the end of the season when there’s nothing to play for, you know you’ve got a good coach.”
Maybe not good enough, evidently.
Chudzinski showed little emotion about the possibility he could be replaced. Asked if he expected to be back, he said: "As far as I know."
He said he had no inkling that there was any front office dissatisfaction with his performance, and said over and over he would start this week making evaluations for next season.
“To start over again, it would be devastating, I think,” Thomas said.
“There’s reports saying that he won’t be back?” Jackson said. “Chud’s gonna be here for as long as he wants to. He’s a great head coach. That’s all I’ve got to say about that. I’m not answering any questions like that. That’s foolish, in my opinion. That’s not going to happen.”
This may boil down to non football issues. Merely a personal issue. Maybe Liitle Joe or Mikey feel disrespected or something. Maybe they fear theres more football knowledge on this staff than they have and cant stand it.
If Chud feels he cant really lead but rather do as the FO tyrants will I'm sure he'd want out anyway. Why stay if you cant make YOUR mark on the team?
Hit this out of the park boys or you are going to be booed right out of the Stadium!!!
people can call me whatever they want but I am 62 years old and been a Browns fan all my life.Since we came back in 99 they kept saying they had a 5 year plan in place.That was 14 years ago....14.......We are no farther along than we were back then as far as stability. I saw a spark this year that I haven't seen in a while.I started to get a little excited about our team.I know the record doesn't show it,but we were in a lot of the games and at one time tied for 1st place.This crap of firing coaches before they even have a fair shot at giving us a winner is BS. If they fire Chud,I don't know if I can support this team or root for them any more.They have taken the heart for football right out of me.They have drained me for even caring any more. O.K. let the name calling begin of how I am not a true fan and how a true fan doesn't bail on their team.I don't care. This front office seems to be content with being mediocre.You can't fire a coach after just one year !!!!!!
Chudzinski's dream turns into nightmare December, 29, 2013 DEC 29 7:06 PM ET By Pat McManamon | ESPN.com
Memo from the Cleveland Browns to their fans -- regarding the excitement over the hiring of Rob Chudzinski: Never mind.
Yes, the team that typically grinds up quarterbacks hit the Daily Double this season: It ground up a quarterback, and now it has ground up and spit out a coach -- after one season.
Good luck selling belief in the new hire.
ESPN’s Chris Mortensen at about 6 p.m. ET Sunday changed the chatter about Chudzinski’s future to hard news when he cited his sources and reported a decision had been made to fire Chudzinski and would happen early this week.
After one season.
Browns spokesman Zak Gilbert said the team would not say anymore than the statement it released in the fourth quarter. Said statement read: "Our focus is on the game today. We will not discuss any evaluation of the season until this upcoming week."
The statement of course only led to speculation mushrooming, the logic being if the Browns were going to stand by Chudzinski they would have, well, stood by him.
Instead they said they’d talk during the week.
Speculation will immediately fall on Penn State coach Bill O’Brien and New England offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels as the next coach -- both of whom are close associates of General Manager Mike Lombardi.
The Browns ship went nowhere this season, but to pin the blame on the coach is one of the ultimate scapegoat jobs in Browns history. There were failings up and down the organization.
Chudzinski had to start three quarterbacks. He had no second or third wideouts (Greg Little and Davone Bess). He had five running backs -- the most clever event of the week usually came when offensive coordinator Norv Turner tried to somehow explain the team’s running game.
The Browns lost seven in a row, but the same front office that touted this coaching staff as some sort of miracle workers traded draft picks, provided little from the draft and gave Bess a contract extension.
More than $20 million in salary cap space went unused, as the front office focus seemed to be on 2014 while the coaches and players tried to win every week.
Now it seems that less than a year after Joe Banner told the fans that he had his eye on Chudzinski for years, he decides he’s not worthy.
A person really runs out of words to describe the constant schlock the Cleveland Browns provide their fans.
There are times when a coach should be let go after one season. Chudzinski’s 4-12 mark is not good, and so is the seven-game losing streak that ended the season.
But this season’s follies can be shared.
That they won’t be is a sad reality about (alleged) NFL football in Cleveland.
Chudzinski talked about the Browns being his dream job when he was hired.
Little did he know how quickly it would turn into the nightmare after Christmas.
Brother I don't blame anybody for jumping off this crap train. I don't know what else to do but root for the Browns so I'm stuck.......if you can then by all means get out while you still can...lol.
Quote: Brother I don't blame anybody for jumping off this crap train. I don't know what else to do but root for the Browns so I'm stuck.......if you can then by all means get out while you still can...lol.
Really...Who's going to stay when their time is up. They've been talking to Haden early. Why bother? Would you stay were you Joe? Mack? Ward? The Ballboy?
From all accounts these guys are HOT!
Prospective draftees butts will pucker when we step up to the podium in April!!
Nobody in FA will give this hole a thought either.
Marla Ridenour: Delusional, dysfunctional Browns poised to fire coach Rob Chudzinski By Marla Ridenour Beacon Journal sports columnist
Add This Published: December 29, 2013 - 08:36 PM
PITTSBURGH: A year ago, the Browns failed to land big-name coaches they pursued like Chip Kelly, Jon Gruden and Nick Saban. Now they are apparently under the delusion they can lure a franchise-changing leader after giving his predecessor less than 12 months to begin to turn things around. If the Browns relieve coach Rob Chudzinski of his duties today, as ESPN’s Chris Mortensen reported Sunday evening, it will illustrate the height of their arrogance, the cartoonish level of their dysfunction. They actually believe there’s a future NFL coaching star out there who wants to work with an owner under federal investigation and a CEO and general manager who have yet to prove they know anything about talent evaluation. It will show owner Jimmy Haslam learned nothing from his days as minority owner of the Steelers, who pride themselves on continuity. The Browns can’t find a quarterback, so they use their coach as a scapegoat instead. If Paul Brown were alive, he’d want his name removed from the team he founded. A new coach would be the fifth to hold the Browns’ job in a seven-year span. Chudzinski would be the first one-and-done coach in Browns’ history. There have been five of those in the NFL in the last 10 years, according to the Elias Sports Bureau. “If you’re intimately involved in the details of this thing, you see the progress we’re making. To start over again, it would be devastating, I think. You can’t always change head coaches, it doesn’t get it done,” Browns left tackle Joe Thomas said Sunday. “You look around the league, everyone’s searching for the instant answer,” Browns quarterback Jason Campbell said. “This isn’t something that just happens. It’s something you have to work at, something you have to build. “If the quarterback or a coach doesn’t have instant results, you get rid of guys. Back in the day, guys like Troy Aikman and Peyton Manning, their first year in the league they were 1-15 or (3-13) and they turn out to be Hall of Fame quarterbacks. You can never base things off one play or one season because the first year’s the hardest year.” But that looks like what the Browns are foolishly poised to do. With a 20-7 loss to the Steelers Sunday at Heinz Field, the Browns (4-12) set a franchise record with their seventh consecutive defeat to end the season and dropped 10 of their last 11. It was a step back from 2012, when the Browns finished 5-11 and fired coach Pat Shurmur. If Haslam thinks he’s sending a message of accountability by firing Chudzinski, it’s coming with a side dish of hypocrisy. If accountability were so important, shouldn’t the Browns have dumped receivers Davone Bess and Greg Little during the season? Shouldn’t the front office be held responsible for a 2013 draft that failed to land any playmakers? Tweets from Albert Breer from NFL.com and Ian Rapoport of NFL Network cited “effort and accountability issues” with Chudzinski’s players, criticism that surely came from the Browns’ front office. Thomas said he didn’t have a problem with Chudzinski in that regard. “Down 17-0, you saw great effort this week right to the end,” Thomas said. “I think there was great accountability. That was one thing that we’re built on.” According to ESPNCleveland.com, a sore point with Haslam was the 24-13 loss to the New York Jets on Dec. 22, when he felt the Browns quit. While Chudzinski is certainly responsible for the Browns’ dizzying decline, dumping him after 16 games seems ridiculous. After Brian Hoyer went down with a torn anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee on Oct. 3, Chudzinski had no starting-caliber quarterback. After Trent Richardson was traded on Sept. 18, he had no starting-caliber running back. Receiver Josh Gordon and tight end Jordan Cameron were the only legitimate pass-catchers. After an off-season spent stocking the defense, the acquisitions underperformed. Yet somehow this mess is all Chudzinski’s fault. Speculation about Chudzinski’s future first surfaced Friday in a column by Dan Pompei of Bleacher Report, then on Sunday came a series of tweets from national NFL writers. Breer mentioned Penn State’s Bill O’Brien, a former New England Patriots offensive coordinator, and Patriots’ current offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels as top candidates. That seemed to bear the fingerprints of Browns general manager Mike Lombardi, convinced he can recreate the Patriot Way after working with Bill Belichick in Cleveland. But O’Brien may be bound for the Houston Texans, who hold the No. 1 pick and have a respected owner in Bob McNair. As recently as Nov. 13, CEO Joe Banner praised Chudzinski, saying, “I’m hard pressed to think that in nine weeks a first-time head coach can do any better or any more than he’s doing. I just think he’s doing an outstanding job.” When Haslam introduced Chudzinski on Jan. 11, Haslam said the Browns talked to nine or 10 of the best coaches in the country and “came back with the best person to lead the Cleveland Browns to the kind of winning format that we want to have.” He said those in the business regarded Chudzinski as “one of the brightest, if not the brightest young mind in the business.” Yet Chudzinski received no support when it came to personnel moves and apparently will get no patience from his bosses. It appears that Haslam, Banner and Lombardi believe they can do better. The only hope of that would be to make the next coach a quasi-GM, power that Banner and Lombardi would never cede, or dip into the college ranks. It would be a tough sell, even with two first-round draft choices next year and seven picks in the first four rounds. Few may considering dipping their toe in these waters of dysfunction, much less diving in.
Quote: Now it seems that less than a year after Joe Banner told the fans that he had his eye on Chudzinski for years, he decides he’s not worthy.
After Jimmy ripping people off on rebates/commiting mass fraud, it doesn't surprise me that he hired another backstabber in Banner. afterall, should we have expected less from someone with Jimmy's character? LOL!
Quote: people can call me whatever they want but I am 62 years old and been a Browns fan all my life.Since we came back in 99 they kept saying they had a 5 year plan in place.That was 14 years ago....14.......We are no farther along than we were back then as far as stability. I saw a spark this year that I haven't seen in a while.I started to get a little excited about our team.I know the record doesn't show it,but we were in a lot of the games and at one time tied for 1st place.This crap of firing coaches before they even have a fair shot at giving us a winner is BS. If they fire Chud,I don't know if I can support this team or root for them any more.They have taken the heart for football right out of me.They have drained me for even caring any more. O.K. let the name calling begin of how I am not a true fan and how a true fan doesn't bail on their team.I don't care. This front office seems to be content with being mediocre.You can't fire a coach after just one year !!!!!!
Agree with this 100%. I have that sinking feeling in my stomach that I used to get when I knew a relationship wasn't going to work out. If the rumors are true it might be time to say "It's not me, Browns, it's you. It's completely and totally you."
Quote: NFL Network's Albert Breer is reporting that a meeting with Chud and the FO is happening tonight. Maybe there is a chance he stays....
For Cleveland Browns fans and the players. I sure hope he stays. It seems A lot of people, myself included, are at the... ... " I am washing my hands of this once and for all" point.
Guy on NFL Network said earlier Chud wanted it moved up.....basically just wants it over with. I hope you are right but I imagine he will be let go tonight.
12. Covering the Browns, I have been in a lot of postgame dressing rooms when players hear the coach will be fired. Never … and I mean NEVER … have I heard players so angry about the rumors -- and so strongly behind the coach -- as the players were after Sunday's game.
13. The usually unflappable D'Qwell Jackson was so upset, he could barely talk. Joe Thomas thought the idea of firing Chudzinski was outrageous. Jordan Cameron thought the coaches didn't receive enough credit for helping young players such as himself to develop. Alex Mack just seemed to think this was yet another bad idea from an organization that seems to be a think-tank for poor decisions.
14. I could see it in the eyes of Joe Thomas -- disbelief. It's that "not again" feeling when pondering the possibility of another head coach.
15. Players will usually say something nice about a coach on the hot seat. They'll speak in cliches. They'll keep it short, almost on auto-pilot. Not with the Browns Sunday. They were shocked that a coaching change is even being considered.
16. Jason Campbell made some interesting comment about how "everything happens instantly" in terms of people wanting immediate success from coaches and quarterbacks. He was not talking about himself, but about Chudzinski and the general NFL mentality.
17. Campbell didn't say it, but nowhere has the quest for instant gratification been more on display than Cleveland. Suppose the Browns fire Chudzinski. The next coach will be the fourth in six years. The Browns will have a new starting quarterback on opening day of 2014. He will be the 11th starter in 15 years.
18. If I were Chudzinski and asked to make a case for keeping my job, I'd start with the trades of the third and fourth rounders on draft day, 2013. Then I'd mention the Trent Richardson deal. I'd mention keeping the salary cap room -- the most in the league. I'd talk about how everything is pointing to 2014, and I deserve a chance to coach that team -- the team that this front office is building.
19. The front office has to take a big hit for this season, too. Not just because of the Waiting-Until-Next-Year approach to the draft, but the trade for Davone Bess was a mess. Top free agent Paul Kruger under-achieved at outside linebacker. Barkevious Mingo was very spotty. The rest of the draft yielded little. Their best signing was Desmond Bryant, and he missed the final four games because of heart problems.
20. You can make a case for firing a coach of a 4-12 team ending the season with a seven-game losing streak. But there are times when you need to say, "Hey, he's a young coach. He's our guy. Let's work with him and support him." But that's not what the Browns appear ready to do, if they look for their fourth coach in six years.
Quote: NFL Network's Albert Breer is reporting that a meeting with Chud and the FO is happening tonight. Maybe there is a chance he stays....
Makes little sense that they would rush a meeting with Chud just to tell him his job is safe. That could be handled with a quick phone call telling him everything is fine, we'll meet later.
I sense Chud is toast.
The ineptness and dysfunction of this organization is fantastically remarkable.
Keep wondering how we can have the amount of pro bowlers on this team.... and look as bad as we do....
Who's responsible for that ? I'm not sure I care whether he stays or goes...
.Maybe the best thing for this team is for Haslam to sell due to implications... someone else buys the team... and we get rid of Banner and lombardi...
For some reason... I feel this FO is the same as the " 99 " FO..... Big names and no results...
I guess I can also give them all another chance.....Hell it's such a routine way of life for a Browns fan....
It is what it is....Don't have much emotion about it... out of our hands...as always..
I keep hoping they will get it right, but they just keep stepping on their man parts over and over again. If Chud was this big of a mistake that you need to can him after one year then the people who were so inept as to hire this inept coach need canned to. I mean if your company's HR guy hires a new executive who is so bad that you have to can him right off the bat.....what does that say for the HR director?????
Quote: Alex Mack just seemed to think this was yet another bad idea from an organization that seems to be a think-tank for poor decisions.
Beautifully said. Also the last he'll be quoted as a Brown...
I wouldn't blame him to be honest...why stock around in this mess?
If this does go down, Joe Thomas should just march right into the front office and demand a trade...if they refuse, just pack up his locker and leave....he can get better enjoyment out of his time fishing in Wisconsin without worrying about this nonsense....
There is a difference between walking away as a quitter(Which Thomas would not be doing), and walking away because your unhappy with the direction of the organization, and its been apparent the organization is not acting in the best interests of the team.(what Thomas would be doing)
Thomas should strongly consider this, there is no reason for him to put his life and his body on the line when the organization has no clue what direction they are going in, and seem to be working against the teams best interests of having a chance to compete by not providing and cultivating a clear and stable direction.....if I was Thomas, if they fire a guy after one year, I would walk....he has enough money where he won't need to work no more....he could have time better spent fishing his days away and finishing whatever college pursuit he was after before he came to the league...
Thomas is a smart guy, he could succeed at whatever he does.....he may be better off getting out of this organization ASAP and pursuing other avenues.....because if this goes down, its obvious there is no clear direction or plan here, and there is no point laying it all out on the line for such an organization that seems hell bent on being counter-productive and not even trying to cultivate a culture of success....JMO
Thomas deserves a super bowl, and i said he would rooo the day he signed that extension here...he should have bolted...i like Thomas, he is my fav player on the team, but the guy deserves a ring and he isn't going to get it here.....he has never even been to the postseason since he was drafted...totally unfair for a guy of his talent and impeccable character...Thomas is such a great guy, he deserves better then this!
Also from that article I thought was worth emphasizing:
"If I were Chudzinski and asked to make a case for keeping my job, I'd start with the trades of the third and fourth rounders on draft day, 2013. Then I'd mention the Trent Richardson deal. I'd mention keeping the salary cap room -- the most in the league. I'd talk about how everything is pointing to 2014, and I deserve a chance to coach that team -- the team that this front office is building."
Quote: Maybe the best thing for this team is for Haslam to sell due to implications... someone else buys the team... and we get rid of Banner and lombardi...
That's my last hail mary prayer hope I have left if they indeed do fire Chud.
This fish rots from the top down and no matter who's the HC won't field a "consistent winner" anytime soon with those guys calling the shots. That's NOT a final determination, just my personal feeling/opinion.
The Browns sure deliver as post-season "drama queens" yet again.
It probably deserves its own thread, but I'm starting to believe that all this "We're going to make BOLD decisions" mantra is reeking of delusions of grandeur, cart before the horse kind of thing. What have these guys done to act as if they've been there before? Kind of like what teenagers do to seem more mature. Posturing. Boldness doesn't lead to a constant winner per se. It's just boldness, a bunch of hot air. Mangini had the same problem. Both those regimes were Bellichick apostles. Lots of similarities, from their delusional mindset to losing ways, and none of them I like….
Quote: Jay Glazer and Ian Rapaport are reporting Chud has been officially fired.
Now, if Haslam had any onions and fire Banner/Lombo along with him too and then apologize having made wrong decisions?….then maybe I'd at least listen, but yeah: fat chance, lol
At least we're consistent....we consistently pay head coaches who no longer coach for us! Can't wait to listen to the Kiley and Booms Show tomorrow morning.....
according to NFL network. team issued a statement that Chud has been fired sighs O well Good luck browns and good luck to those sticking with these asses.
I'm in total shock & denial. That is the ONE thing I was hanging on the off-season, was the begining of continutity. Now we are the laughing stock of all franshises. How can you possibly convince this fan base, a new coach that you have any competence as a FO
BEREA -- Multiple national sources are saying the Browns have fired head coach Rob Chudzinski.
The news comes after the Browns finish the season at 4-12.
Chudzinski met with team officials in Berea following today's game against the Steelers.
The team issued the following statement:
"We appreciate Chud's passion for the Browns, and we have great respect for him both personally and professionally. We needed to see progress with this football team. We needed to see development and improvement as the season evolved and, unfortunately, we took a concerning step backward in the second half of the year.
"Our fans deserve to see a consistently competitive team. We have high standards, and there's an urgency for success. When we believed we were not positioned to achieve significant progress in 2014, we knew we had to admit that a change was needed, and move forward.
"Browns fans are the most loyal and passionate supporters in the NFL. We're fully committed to bringing them the winning football team they deserve."
As I said earlier, if your execs hired the guy who you felt was so incompetent that organization was better off taking the catastrophic PR hit than keeping for another year......would you want them to oversee what will probably be a really important offseason that your organization will have before the fans finally revolt????
Nothing against anyone, but if I'm Haslem feels that Chud was that catastrophic do a bad hire then Banner has to take a ton of blame for bringing him in (Lombardi had nothing to do with the interview process as he wasnt here yet). I imagine this will come out that Chud and Lombardi couldn't get along, and that might be a legitimate issue.....problem is if that was the case then why wasn't ML in the inter cite process from the beginning........disfunction continues
Of course its that way. Banner made his name on Reids coattails. Being a ruthless cap manager is no major talent. I guess it didn't take long for his true snake self to show up though. I think I,m done with the Browns. They are gonna end up bringin in the kid from Penn state cause he will be pliable to Banner.
to you Banner. Hated you with the Eagles and hate you here now.
I don't think we should have fired Chud. However, it will be nice to see the board lose certain posters. Hopefully, they will stay true to their word and not come back.
now way O'Brien comes here...the dude would have to be stupid to even consider it.
McDaniels is probably the best head coach we can hope for now, and that guy is a joke...he is a worse head coach then Chud...the players and fans both HATED McDaniels in Denver.....
This team is going to be hard pressed to find someone good...Ken Wisenhunt was interviewed last year, and he and Cowher are very similar and I thought he was our best option last year, but he refused our offer as far as i know and took off for San Diego.....who made the playoffs today.
McDaniels is a horrible head coach, the guy is horrible....if he is who we hire, i'll be finding other things to do on sundays...McDaniels is lost as a head coach the dude doesn't have a clue.....we will be in big trouble in they think McDaniels is any sort of answer here....if you though Crennell was bad, McDaniels is 10 times worse....at least Romeo posted a 10 win season, McDaniels couldn't even do that in a very weak AFC West at the time...
Quote: I don't think we should have fired Chud. However, it will be nice to see the board lose certain posters. Hopefully, they will stay true to their word and not come back.
yea, get mad at the fans cause the FO, the same one who preached continuity, the same one we was skeptical of and you called us H&H supporters, just went against everything they said they WOULDN'T do.
Everybody here needs to change their name to Sucker. I have been on here all day for some strange reason. But now... I am done. Only in spare moments will I check here to see all the same posts of the last 14 years. But will I rant or rave? No. It never really makes me feel any better. I will lurk. but most likely will never post angry or happy hyper emotional rants. Not even if all the sudden this team and organization becomes Superbowl contenders.
I was wrong the last 5 weeks with my post game thoughts. This FO has fired the wrong man. SHAME ON THEM. How was Chud the right man for the job at the beginning of a year we all knew was not going to be great. And now he is not? Should that not be the fault of the people who interviewed and ultimately hired him.?
Dont worry vers I wont be coming around to often other than to say hi to a few folks on here but I am done as a Browns fan. to hell with Banner and Lombardi.
Quote: Not mad at all. I will be happy as hell to see certain guys abandon the team.
Unfortunately, you won't be one of them. You were one of the loudest guys blaming Chud for our record.
Hope you are happy.
i'm not happy at all. i actually hope you LEFT, since you were insulting anybody that didn't support this FO, and they straight up lied to us, just like the guy you and UB use to call pig face.
wow... its just shocking. what a dysfunctional franchise. There has to be a big name coming, otherwise how else do you sell this to "the loyal fan base" Gruden and Saban fit the bill. O'Brien does not. McDaniels does not.
I just don't see how free agents would give the browns a second look. Money talks, but it will take a lot of it to snag top guys.
This is ridiculous. I am sorry to be a browns fan tonight. More disappointed then with any loss this year.
The real problem now is not who we get as coach, but that the evil will remain and that is criminal Haslam. The best thing that could happen is that his butt ends up in jail and the team is forced to be sold. Nobody is ever going to respect this guy at all and he is the MAIN root of the problem now. I didn't think it could get worse than Randy, but he is it.
Quote: You don't fire a coach after one year unless you have someone in your pocket already. So who is it.
I've been thinking this very thing....but they have to interview Horton first!
I thought the same thing. Whoever it is, hope it is a done deal. And then what does that say about the new guy- a classy weasel!!! That sounds like McDaniel.......
Quote: You don't fire a coach after one year unless you have someone in your pocket already. So who is it.
I've been thinking this very thing....but they have to interview Horton first!
I thought the same thing. Whoever it is, hope it is a done deal. And then what does that say about the new guy- a classy weasel!!! That sounds like McDaniel.......
I feel pretty bad for Chud....this was his dream job. Even after getting let go in 2008 he always thought he'd get a chance to come back. Well, he did....to a garbage situation, an unfair opportunity, and the scapegoat of an unsuccessful year.
Good luck, Chud. You didn't deserve to go down like this. Not this way and not this fast.
Who knows,but they already made up their minds awhile ago.When you fire your coach right after the game,the deal was a forgone conclusion.I'm fine with it too,because he was never the guy they wanted to begin with.
Vers......what's your theory on why they did this? Mine is behind the scenes they felt that Chud just wasn't the guy they thought they were getting......or Haslem went knee jerk Lerner style. My concern is much like Holmgren/Heckert after the Mangini fiasco.....you hired/kept them and that decision was so bad you had to undo it in a year????? Not a good sign at all.
Quote: You don't fire a coach after one year unless you have someone in your pocket already. So who is it.
I've been thinking this very thing....but they have to interview Horton first!
I thought the same thing. Whoever it is, hope it is a done deal. And then what does that say about the new guy- a classy weasel!!! That sounds like McDaniel.......
Quote: I don't think we should have fired Chud. However, it will be nice to see the board lose certain posters. Hopefully, they will stay true to their word and not come back.
oh lord here we go.....
does it always have to resort to this? emotions are running high right now, juices are flowing...just give it a rest on this kinda petty nonsense already...its bad enough people are mad about firing a coach after 1 season, i don't really think these kind of statements are appropriate or productive at all.
Yeah. I just saw Dungy's "whoa" reaction. I just don't understand the firing of a coach who had no talent to work with on offense and incompetent QB after QB. I mean he made some mistakes but he was a rookie head coach. You're going to mess up while learning sometimes. That's expected. Also it's not Chud's fault that B & L didn't properly give him the talent to work with via the draft and free agency (FB,CB, RB, QB). Some how B & L need to also be held responsible right now. Unfortunately, tomorrow they'll have some tow the line press conference trying to explain their stupid actions. Frankly anything they say at this point I take as a half lie. Do they really think people actually believe what they're saying???
Folks are talking Turner or Horton. They could have had either one over Chud last year and they claim they didn't get there man. By reason that eliminates either of those two!
Wait and see if Norvs son Scott isn't the guy. something was said earlier about a shift in his title/duties.
Quote: Folks are talking Turner or Horton. They could have had either one over Chud last year and they claim they didn't get there man. By reason that eliminates either of those two!
Wait and see if Norvs son Scott isn't the guy. something was said earlier about a shift in his title/duties.
My guess is neither of those two. After this one-year firing, someone must be on radar and it better be a good one.
Quote: Folks are talking Turner or Horton. They could have had either one over Chud last year and they claim they didn't get there man. By reason that eliminates either of those two!
Wait and see if Norvs son Scott isn't the guy. something was said earlier about a shift in his title/duties.
That would be nepotism at its finest. So that has to be it.
Quote: Folks are talking Turner or Horton. They could have had either one over Chud last year and they claim they didn't get there man. By reason that eliminates either of those two!
Wait and see if Norvs son Scott isn't the guy. something was said earlier about a shift in his title/duties.
That would be nepotism at its finest. So that has to be it.
We'll get some bottom barrel coach who will be a yes man to Banner and Lombardi (see McDaniels).
A big name coach will not come here without full authority and Banner nor Lombardi will give that up. Any talk of a Gruden, Cowher, Shanahan, Saban type coming here is utter nonsense.
What top tier coach would want to come here without the QB position resolved too?
Looking forward to the sales pitch coming from Banner and Co. though to us fans. Those are always fun.
There were rumors last night and today that the Texans and BO'b were cooling on each other. The only way this remotely makes since is if they get someone like that. Heck if they pull off BOb I will be impressed at the upgrade...lol.
Why would you want Shanahan? He hasn't done anything since he had John Elway.
I think getting a QB and a RB is more important right now...personally, i hope they give Norv Turner or Ray Horton the job, this way we can keep the staff in place and have some sort of continuity....the Air Coryell offense will work if we can get a QB.
Quote: Dont worry vers I wont be coming around to often other than to say hi to a few folks on here but I am done as a Browns fan. to hell with Banner and Lombardi.
That really sucks. I hope you re-consider it, as bad and hilariously hypocritical as this situation is. Always respected your opinions, evaluations and loved your optimism on everything Browns. You'd be a huge loss to this board and I'm sure I'm not alone thinking that. That said, I probably will visit less too, though I will still give this next draft a last go, but next season? Meh, new QB, new HC, new OC, new system, same BS while wasting a prime year of half a dozen PBowlers. Just feels incredibly hopeless.
Quote: There were rumors last night and today that the Texans and BO'b were cooling on each other. The only way this remotely makes since is if they get someone like that. Heck if they pull off BOb I will be impressed at the upgrade...lol.
I have a sinking feeling it is going to be Schwartz. He comes off as a giagantic dirtbag. He will fit right in. Maybe Del Rio?
Obrien is my guess. I'll stick with it. Move happened too quickly to not have someone in place and there's no way they could have tampered with McDumbas.
Quote: Vers......what's your theory on why they did this? Mine is behind the scenes they felt that Chud just wasn't the guy they thought they were getting......or Haslem went knee jerk Lerner style. My concern is much like Holmgren/Heckert after the Mangini fiasco.....you hired/kept them and that decision was so bad you had to undo it in a year????? Not a good sign at all.
I don't know, Willie. I am not in favor of the move.
The only thing I can think of is that there were a lot of players that quit at the end of the year. Look at teams that won today that should not have. They did not quit. Our guys quit.
Did you watch Gordon today..........the same guy that posters are saying is going to better than Jerry Rice? LOL............he was miserable playing a football game for millions of dollars.
I think the FO is deluding themselves if they think the only problem this team has is the coaching. We have a team full of losers. They make me sick watching them. Did you watch Ward today? It looked like he was going through a walk through. Haden? He sat out. Yeah, the Squeeler game means a lot to him.
However, it has been reported that there were quite a few players complaining about the coaching in recent weeks. Well, the primma donnas got their way.
These stiffs have won:
5 games 5 games 4 games 5 games and 4 games in the last five years.
That is under 3 different head coaches and multiple coordinators.
Yeah, it's all on the coaches.
Sorry Willy.............not sure I really answered your question. I am disgusted. I'm disgusted w/the FO. I am disgusted w/the season. And I got even more disgusted coming on here and reading the crap from certain posters who are actually happy this happening, just so they can spew their venom.
But yeah............this is probably a Haslam thing. He promised us continuity and he isn't delivering. Very disappointing.
Quote: Dont worry vers I wont be coming around to often other than to say hi to a few folks on here but I am done as a Browns fan. to hell with Banner and Lombardi.
That really sucks. I hope you re-consider it, as bad and hilariously hypocritical as this situation is. Always respected your opinions, evaluations and loved your optimism on everything Browns. You'd be a huge loss to this board and I'm sure I'm not alone thinking that. That said, I probably will visit less too, though I will still give this next draft a last go, but next season? Meh, new QB, new HC, new OC, new system, same BS while wasting a prime year of half a dozen PBowlers. Just feels incredibly hopeless.
Agreed DJango. Like you I will always be a Browns fan, but I may not post here as often as i used to...I think were both just burntout on losing.....besides, im sure us both being a little less invested will probably help both of our blood pressures! LOL
Seriously though Django, I always liked your insights, I didn't always agree, but I always learned something from them or took away another perspective, so I thank you for that!
Quote: Did you watch Gordon today..........the same guy that posters are saying is going to better than Jerry Rice? LOL............he was miserable playing a football game for millions of dollars.
Gordon got intravenous injections before the game for a stomach ailment.
Quote: You are not one of the ones I want to leave.
Me neither buddy. This FO is surely putting their junk on the chopping block. They have to (or better) have something up their sleeve or they prove to be as dumb as we think they are.
thinking about it for a second... Banner is such a snake in the grass that he probably put Chud in as a lame duck 1 year coach stacked his picks, stacked his cap and hoped to get a premium coach next year.
From what I've been reading on other sites... a lot of players are livid.
But I think what is happening to this board is a microcosm of what will continue to happen to this fanbase until the Browns become winners again ...dissenting and dissolving.
If we are double digit losers again next year, I would expect Haslam to sell or move the team ...because there won't be very many fans left.
Quote: Mourg is one of my top five follows on here.
But I think what is happening to this board is a microcosm of what will continue to happen to this fanbase until the Browns become winners again ...dissenting and dissolving.
If we are double digit losers again next year, I would expect Haslam to sell or move the team ...because there won't be very many fans left.
Wondering if that is part of the plan? How does Cleveland compare to bigger markets that want a team as far as revenues, that could possibly be earned elsewhere if you quiet the vocal Browns fans who will riot if you move the team. AGAIN.
Quote: Did he get them last week and the week before that, too?
You're being brutal man, really. Did you see who was throwing to him and how it was being done? Nevermind, I know you did.
Just like the energy got sucked out of this team when Hoyer went down, extended periods of lame QB'ing can do the same I suppose.
I don't condone quitting at any level for any reason. But I can understand that at a certain point it all can seem fruitless and void when you realize you don't have a chance in hell of competing.
Geez, the only reason I'm still up is because I thought we'd get some reports on coaching candidates. I mean we knew about Banner and Lombardi MONTHS in advance. We could at least get a few days head start on the new guy, huh???
That’s ridiculous,” linebacker D’Qwell Jackson said. “Chud is going to be here for a long as he wants to. He’s a great head coach. That’s not going to happen.”
Pro Bowl left tackle Joe Thomas, who has now played for 4 different head coaches in 7 years, didn’t even want to entertain the thought.
“I’m not going to speculate on what would happen if this or that would happen,” Thomas said. “I’d be very surprised if they made a change and I’d be disappointed.”
“I think he’s has done a good job,” Thomas said. “If you fired coaches after one bad season, it’s not like we won the Superbowl last year… We had tremendous changes philosophy wise, offense, defense, so many different players we brought in, traded away a lot of draft picks in the spring looking forward to the future to build a consistent winner.
“To get that consistent winning is by having consistency in the coaching staff and the philosophy of management.”
Consistency and winning are the 2 things that continue to elude the franchise since 1999.
“That’s absurd to me that a report would be out about a good coach like that,” Jackson said. “That’s crazy. That pisses me off in a sense.”
Tight end Jordan Cameron will believe it when he see’s it.
“I don’t believe in that stuff. It’s just rumors,” Cameron said. “Josh Gordon wasn’t supposed to be here. I was supposed to be gone. I don’t believe that stuff until I see it. I think coach Chud is awesome. He does a great job. I believe in him 100-percent. He’s got all the attributes a coach needs. He’s a fighter. He’s resilient.
“We believe in him. I believe in him. I’d be upset if that happened.”
Nothing surprises me,” safety T.J. Ward said. “I’ve been through 3 coaches…I’d be surprised. It’s only been 1 year.”
They are still selling out the staduim, Browns apparell sells well, and why would Jimmy invest all that money in remodeling and renovations if he was going to move the team? I don't think thats the case at all.
As for Chud's firing, I think there was some disagreements going on behind closed doors we may not know about.....its not out of the realm of possibility that Chud and the FO clashed on some issues and perhaps they just couldn't come to an agreement on those clashes and they FO decided to part ways and move on...I don't like it, but we don't really know what was going on there. We know Andy Reid and Banner didn't exactly get along in Philly, perhaps something similar happened here between Chud and Banner or Chud and Lombardi perhaps?
I always played the game as hard as I could. I taught my players to do the same thing. I taught my own children to do the same thing.
My daughter was captain of her basketball team. At the awards ceremony, she said "my dad taught me to play each play like it was my last play, and that is what I did..." Well bro, I got that from Floyd Little long ago.
You wanna excuse these pieces of crap, go ahead. They freaking quit and I can not excuse that in any shape or manner. We need a culture change w/this team. And until we change this culture, the draft is going to be a more popular topic than the playoffs. I
Quote: Geez, the only reason I'm still up is because I thought we'd get some reports on coaching candidates. I mean we knew about Banner and Lombardi MONTHS in advance. We could at least get a few days head start on the new guy, huh???
Ha! I was thinking lets hear something good. But this will end with a dull press conference thud tomorrow. Hopefully Joe T comes in and blasts anybody in the FO in the chops. Then I can be proud again. If only for a few moments.
Quote: This snake in the grass crap is just that............crap.
He needs to build a winner here. If he doesn't, he will be gone.
Say what you will, but he managed the cap in Philly well enough to keep them a contending team for a long, long time.
Banner isn't the guy who concerns me.
Well just who the hell DOES concern you???????? We just fired a first year head coach because/////////// he had not quarter back? NO Freaking running game, and our D lost 3-4 games?
Who the hell concerns you???????????
Haslem should Banner should Lombardi should.
Period.
Sorry, this ain't Pilot/Flying J where the owner can plead ignorance........or, IF he pleads ignorance, his ass ought to be run out of town ASAP.
You don't just jack people around after 1 year.
What do we have for next year? A lot of draft picks, a number of free agents that sure as hell won't want to re-sign here, and a new head coach. Yet ANOTHER offense.........possibly defense..........with no quarterback, or running game.
This ain't truck stop business. Anybody can run a freaking truck stop business their daddy built........especially when you screw your customers out of money.
Oh, wait - screwing customers out of money. Hmmmmmmmm think about it.
Quote: This snake in the grass crap is just that............crap.
He needs to build a winner here. If he doesn't, he will be gone.
Say what you will, but he managed the cap in Philly well enough to keep them a contending team for a long, long time.
Banner isn't the guy who concerns me.
Well, It's my opinion that Banner is a snake in the grass. thank you for belittling my opinion.
IMO He bean counted and Reid kept them in contention. He didn't really run the show.
it is also probably the reason why CK decided against the Browns. I don't see any positives in firing Chud. We are already the laughing out of the NFL and players in college pray not to go to the Browns.
This carousel needs to stop. Wasn't it Bummer that brought in Chud and preached consistency?
Quote: I don't think they are trying to move the team.
They are still selling out the staduim, Browns apparell sells well, and why would Jimmy invest all that money in remodeling and renovations if he was going to move the team? I don't think thats the case at all.
As for Chud's firing, I think there was some disagreements going on behind closed doors we may not know about.....its not out of the realm of possibility that Chud and the FO clashed on some issues and perhaps they just couldn't come to an agreement on those clashes and they FO decided to part ways and move on...I don't like it, but we don't really know what was going on there. We know Andy Reid and Banner didn't exactly get along in Philly, perhaps something similar happened here between Chud and Banner or Chud and Lombardi perhaps?
True I am just very hot headed right now. It is the same book. I keep throwing it out the window. And it keeps landing on my nightstand. I thought maybe I heard somewhere that this FO knew we were having those recurring nightmares. And were here to "fix it".
Quote: Now it seems that less than a year after Joe Banner told the fans that he had his eye on Chudzinski for years, he decides he’s not worthy.
After Jimmy ripping people off on rebates/commiting mass fraud, it doesn't surprise me that he hired another backstabber in Banner. afterall, should we have expected less from someone with Jimmy's character? LOL!
Your statements are pathetic.
For the record, I'm not going to say whether I think that he should have been fired or not. But, on the face of it, the Browns had Chudzinski, a first time HC, as their primary guy. They got for him a respected OC and a respected DC. Collectively, they blew it and didn't get the job done. Will Norv Turner and Ray Horton (et al) be following him out the door? Probably so.
You may not like it, but going 4-12 with that much help around you isn't likely to make your boss happy if your an NFL HC.
This sounds like a move made by Haslam to me. And that does concern me. He is the one who said we would have continuity. One year and we blow it up. Pffftttttttttt
I liked the Chud / Turner / Horton combo a lot. I would have been happy to keep it in place for 10 years. I also happen to believe coaching isn't that important...so really only tangentially do I care who is coaching. The only thing I want is a coach who treats the players with respect (basically not in the Mangini/Parcells ilk).
I loved Chud, thought this was a really good coaching staff, would have kept it in place for a decade. I also don't give two bits if it is broken up though, the replacements will be fine. It does bother me that the FO disagrees and did not hold true to their statements of consistency...But in the long run it won't really matter if they fire him as long as the replacement is at least average.
Get a QB. I do not care what happens besides that in the slightest. QB is 80% of the game. I don't particularly care how they handle the remaining 20%.
Quote: This sounds like a move made by Haslam to me. And that does concern me. He is the one who said we would have continuity. One year and we blow it up. Pffftttttttttt
It was Haslam. Apparently the whole patience is a virtue thing is something he doesn't believe in.
Quote: Now it seems that less than a year after Joe Banner told the fans that he had his eye on Chudzinski for years, he decides he’s not worthy.
After Jimmy ripping people off on rebates/commiting mass fraud, it doesn't surprise me that he hired another backstabber in Banner. afterall, should we have expected less from someone with Jimmy's character? LOL!
Your statements are pathetic.
For the record, I'm not going to say whether I think that he should have been fired or not. But, on the face of it, the Browns had Chudzinski, a first time HC, as their primary guy. They got for him a respected OC and a respected DC. Collectively, they blew it and didn't get the job done. Will Norv Turner and Ray Horton (et al) be following him out the door? Probably so.
You may not like it, but going 4-12 with that much help around you isn't likely to make your boss happy if your an NFL HC.
If only we had Mr. Miagi to rub his hands together to heal all the inopportune injuries at the moment they happened. All might be well.
Nope instead we get another rebuild. and this time only on the one year plan. YAY! It will be soo exciting to see all the fresh green players with deer in the headlights looks on their faces again. Until the next yearly regime change.
You wanna excuse these pieces of crap, go ahead. They freaking quit and I can not excuse that in any shape or manner. We need a culture change w/this team. And until we change this culture, the draft is going to be a more popular topic than the playoffs. I
There was absolutely no fight or pride in them today. Record or not, this was Steeler week and it didn't matter to them. Whatever happened to ruin your rivals chances of making the play-offs? Or just plain beating them BECAUSE of who they are?
I get the distinct impression this team has taken on the personality not unsimilar to Romeo's last year- way too comfortable with themselves, coach coddled certain players. No discipline, no recourse. Gordon jogged thru routes today, Thomas was just plain awful. Campbell couldn't get to the heater fast enough on the sideline.Team leaders barely going through the motions.
Yea...I'm ok with dumping a HC over this last ten weeks, one year in or not, rotating QB or not. Its about effort, and every time the game got hard, they folded. Soft like a cookie.Unacceptable
to have a culture change you have to be willing to part with some guys that none of us would like. I am a Reds fan, and remember hating it when they traded Dunn because he was the only guy that produced. In hindsight though they had to. A guy who had spent his entire career in a culture of losing couldn't change the culture.....hell he didn't know anything else. So they dumped him and signed Rolen who could lead by example to the young guys they had coming up.
Not naming specific people, but I would be careful who I offered to sign this off season....and if someone demands a trade as has been mentioned and I can get good value for it then i do it. I don't agree with the firing of Chud but it's fairly obvious the team quit on him. I mean how can you have more pro bowlers than wins?????.....mind boggling. This can be salvaged with the right hire, but they have to bring the right guy in....and as you alluded to remove some of the wrong ones.
Quote: If only we had Mr. Miagi to rub his hands together to heal all the inopportune injuries at the moment they happened. All might be well.
Nope instead we get another rebuild. and this time only on the one year plan. YAY! It will be soo exciting to see all the fresh green players with deer in the headlights looks on their faces again. Until the next yearly regime change.
Another rebuild? Why? There are football players on this team. We'll have a new HC and probably a new coaching staff. *shrug* Maybe someone that'll last only a year until the next HC takes his place. I'd rather go one-&-done instead of continue with something that doesn't improve (and don't give me the injuries or QB inconsistencies). It happens to be the plays executed on the field and the play calling that got Chud fired.
I'm not sure I like the move, but I can certainly understand it from Haslam's viewpoint. I'm sure that a 4-12 season isn't what he expected when he shelled out more than $1 billion to buy the team.
I think we have a ton of soft players on this team. They aren't winners.
Gordon gets a ton of love, but he made me sick w/his effort the last couple of weeks.
Haden? He injured his hip two weeks ago. He plays last week. Makes the Pro Bowl on Friday, Sits out against our biggest rival this week. Yeah........that's our leader.
Ward? Were we going through a walk through today? And people love this guy?
I watch the OL run onto the field. and here comes Little and Gordon.............walking like they don't even wanna be there.
Oh, and players........I got news for you............if you wanna keep your coach, try playing harder and executing plays. You seem like a group of excuse makers to me who shift blame to others. A couple of weeks ago a bunch of you were complaining about the coaching and now you are upset that Chud got axed? Sounds hypocritical to me.
You wanna excuse these pieces of crap, go ahead. They freaking quit and I can not excuse that in any shape or manner. We need a culture change w/this team. And until we change this culture, the draft is going to be a more popular topic than the playoffs. I
There was absolutely no fight or pride in them today. Record or not, this was Steeler week and it didn't matter to them. Whatever happened to ruin your rivals chances of making the play-offs? Or just plain beating them BECAUSE of who they are?
I get the distinct impression this team has taken on the personality not unsimilar to Romeo's last year- way too comfortable with themselves, coach coddled certain players. No discipline, no recourse. Gordon jogged thru routes today, Thomas was just plain awful. Campbell couldn't get to the heater fast enough on the sideline.Team leaders barely going through the motions.
Yea...I'm ok with dumping a HC over this last ten weeks, one year in or not, rotating QB or not. Its about effort, and every time the game got hard, they folded. Soft like a cookie.Unacceptable
I can't really disagree with any of this. We all saw it with our own eyes. Like you, I've seen it week in and week out.
Further, it has occurred to me that this firing is also a message to those folks that you mentioned, among others, that lack of effort will not be accepted.
Robert Kraft and Arthur Blank told Jimmy don't expect a quick fix right away. They told this guy to be patient, especially in our division, which is usually pretty tough. I'm not sure this guy is cut out to be an nfl owner for the long haul, if he makes a desperation move like he did today.
I am also waiting to hear about a press conference scheduled tomorrow morning.....all three- Haslem, Banner, and Lombardi need to be waddling out for this one.
Quote: I speak tongue in cheek only cause truth seems stranger than fiction a la Major League
So what's the bar for the coach next year? What if he doesn't win 4 games? Fire him?
This FO just took the word credibility and dropped a deuce on it.
I'm not sure that they did. I think that their statement stood for itself. The team expected progress as the season went on. It didn't happen and the team actually regressed after Hoyer went down with injury.
Unfortunately, someone had to take the blame and it ended up being Chudzinski (and probably the coordinators and coaches).
Quote: Another rebuild? Why? There are football players on this team.
I was just thinking about this- and decided a rebuild would be necessary. How will the new staff win over the locker room. The old vets have seen regimes come and go.... when they buy in they get 2 years and then 1 year.... The attitude will leave a lot to be desired, and maybe the only way to fix it is with new blood.
We do have some players, but can we keep that nucleus together or will they get out of Cleveland as soon as they hit FA. Winning fixes everything, it can't come fast enough.
Quote: Now it seems that less than a year after Joe Banner told the fans that he had his eye on Chudzinski for years, he decides he’s not worthy.
After Jimmy ripping people off on rebates/commiting mass fraud, it doesn't surprise me that he hired another backstabber in Banner. afterall, should we have expected less from someone with Jimmy's character? LOL!
Your statements are pathetic.
For the record, I'm not going to say whether I think that he should have been fired or not. But, on the face of it, the Browns had Chudzinski, a first time HC, as their primary guy. They got for him a respected OC and a respected DC. Collectively, they blew it and didn't get the job done. Will Norv Turner and Ray Horton (et al) be following him out the door? Probably so.
You may not like it, but going 4-12 with that much help around you isn't likely to make your boss happy if your an NFL HC.
How so?
Is it not a fact that our owner is currently under the microscope of a Federal Investigation concerning rebate fraud and perhaps other crimes?
If our owner was a "man of integrity" he would step away from the Browns and hand over the ownership duties to his wife, brother, or some other trusted associate and step away from the Browns pending the final outcome on his legal/potential criminal problems.....thats what a man of integrity would do.....he has people/family that he could let run this team while he distances himself for awhile until these problems of his are sorted out. thus removing a potential distraction away from the team.
I am not comfortable with a guy with his type of legal issues hanging over his head that leaves his ethics and integrity in question running this team...its bad pr, its bad for business, nothing good can come from it...I am sorry you have a problem with that....if Jimmy was President of this organization instead of its owner, he would have already been fired for these kinds of allegations.....no company would want anything to do that and would distances themselves from it asap.
I think your laying too much blame at the feet of the coaches, Chud in particular, when he didn't have the talent to get the job done.
Look at our roster, the only players on our roster that would start elsehwhere in the NFL are:
1. Thomas 2. Mack 3. Ward 4. Haden 5. Taylor 6. Rubin 7. Bryant 8. Kruger 9. Gordon 10. Camereon 11. Jackson
Now you may be able to make a "on the bubble case" for 2 or 3 more players, but honestly...this is what Chud and the coaches had to work with.....there is no way you could win more then 4-5 games with that kind of talent.....only 11 out of your 53 even belong in the NFL. Only 2 players on offense are legit starters, the rest are on D (which explains why our D ranking was higher), and no QB at all, and no running game....there is no way you can expect to win with that...no way...
Chud got a raw deal here plain and simple....this also leaves the question about the "next guy" what if he goes 4-12 or 5-11 are we going to "one and done" the next guy too? I don't see how this is good for the team.
You may disagree with my statements concerning Haslam, and that's fine, but there is merit in having questions about an owner involved in such legal issues as he is, especially as in the nature of those legal issues leaves a lot to question.
but you guys are killing me with this steelers rivalry crap,
lets get one thing straight. the only people who think this is still a "rivalry" are browns fans.
how many times have we beat the steelers since 99? big ben is a whopping 17-1 against us. hardly a "rivalry"
more of "laughing stock".
theres a big difference between quitting, which they did, and not being hyped for a rivalry. who? almost none of these guys are from ohio, most of them don't even know the feelings the fans have about it, and once again, since we always LOSE, its not a rivalry to them. just the annual ass whooping we are expected to receive.
any of you watching this eagles-boys game? THATS a rivalry.
Quote: If only we had Mr. Miagi to rub his hands together to heal all the inopportune injuries at the moment they happened. All might be well.
Nope instead we get another rebuild. and this time only on the one year plan. YAY! It will be soo exciting to see all the fresh green players with deer in the headlights looks on their faces again. Until the next yearly regime change.
Another rebuild? Why? There are football players on this team. We'll have a new HC and probably a new coaching staff. *shrug* Maybe someone that'll last only a year until the next HC takes his place. I'd rather go one-&-done instead of continue with something that doesn't improve (and don't give me the injuries or QB inconsistencies). It happens to be the plays executed on the field and the play calling that got Chud fired.
I'm not sure I like the move, but I can certainly understand it from Haslam's viewpoint. I'm sure that a 4-12 season isn't what he expected when he shelled out more than $1 billion to buy the team.
Because the new staff will want "their guys." And the guys that are here now I am sure have had enough of the constant flux. My thought is the guys that can jump ship will do just that. Or they will want BUKU dollars. And then only perfom if they see hope. Which in Cleveland is RARE!
So that likely leaves this team in complete rebuild yet again. And if the next sacrificial lamb comes into an almost impossible situation. One like in which I believe Chud handled as well as could be expected. When the new dude fails in the same way . Do we get the same roundabout with no exit other than complete re-re-re-re-re-re-re-rebuild again? Fed up with it. It was one thing to expect it the last few changes. Which I will admit I was not down with a couple of them. But this time it was way out in left field with no legit reason that we know of. Hope they have a doosey of a presser.
I counter that by saying that the front office quit on this season before it even started...from being completely non-aggressive in free agency, to trading for future picks in the draft, to trading the starting running back and signing a senior citizen as his replacement. They had no intention of fielding team that could compete for the playoffs this year. If you don't hold the front office accountable for quitting on the season, how can you hold the players accountable? And for-the-love-of-God, how can you hold the coach responsible?
You think players quit this season? Good luck bringing in good players next year. No one wants to come to this mess, unless we grossly overpay. If I'm a draft pick, I'm bombing my interview with the Browns just so they don't draft me.
The Browns have had stupid people in-charge before. They've had egotistical people in charge before. I'm not sure they've had stupid egotistical people in charge before, at least not on this level. That is a very, very bad combination. This move has Lombardi written all over it, which is exactly what some people feared when they hired him.
Face it, instead of having the three wise men in charge, we have three snake-oil salesmen (or maybe the three stooges), one of whom owns the team. You think we're ever going to field a consistent winner with that as our foundation? Quit kidding yourself.
J/C, Again, The Cleveland Browns prove once again why the Organization is the laughing stock of the league. Only Jacksonville might be run worse!!..But I'm sure the Plain Dealer writers will fall back inline and not really question sorry Joe and clueless Mike!!
Quote: I am also waiting to hear about a press conference scheduled tomorrow morning.....all three- Haslem, Banner, and Lombardi need to be waddling out for this one.
Being reported on twitter that Lombardi will not be present at the press conference.
Quote: I am also waiting to hear about a press conference scheduled tomorrow morning.....all three- Haslem, Banner, and Lombardi need to be waddling out for this one.
Being reported on twitter that Lombardi will not be present at the press conference.
of course, but to some posters, our GM not showing his face doesn't mean anything, he must be "working hard".
I'd throw in Pinkston (who has been griping on twitter all night) and possibly DQ as we'll if he is as upset as some say. Remember when the Bungels traded Dillon and Spikes because they were sick of losing? Marvin said hey if you don't want to be here the door is right there. I laughed at them at the time, but in hindsight it was the turning point for that organization IMO. If a guy wants to leave and we can get value for him let him!!! I'm not saying DQ wants to just that his name was mentioned about demanding a trade.
We have very few people on this team who I would try to talk out of a trade demand if I was a new HC.....as a matter of fact there's only 1 joe. And guess what if Joe is that dead set on leaving then you have to get value for him and move on. I hate it man, but the entire culture has to change as you said, because we see the same crap year after year.
Again I hate Chud didn't get a fair shot, but I don't think he was the guy to change this culture, and ultimately the FO saw that. My problem is they should have never hired him then. If BOb does get the job then why not hire him last year?? Haslem has the loot.....serious about winning make an offer no one else will match.
Oh we'll man, I'm rambling right now....just really frustrated.
Just clicking... and I haven't read through the whole 10 pages, but...
I'm hearing a lot of hate towards the FO for this, but just for a devils advocate if you will...
We know we have some talent. We also know this team has been pretty terrible. But unless someone on this board is in that locker room, we have no idea what the players REALLY feel about this staff. They're obviously going to stick up for them in the media. But how do we know there hasn't been some real anti chud going on for a while? Do we know, for sure, that Chud wasn't some total d-bag that the players aren't getting behind? Their play would seem to say that.
I'm not trying to stand up for the FO, cause this is bad on them too. And I liked Chud, but to me, this screams mutiny. I can see a possibility where the FO realized they just flat out made a mistake, or maybe the stuff coming out of Carolina wasn't just sour grapes.
I'm just having a hard time believing there isn't something beneath the surface going on here.
Quote: Dont worry vers I wont be coming around to often other than to say hi to a few folks on here but I am done as a Browns fan. to hell with Banner and Lombardi.
I know I haven't been around recently but I'm out as well, bro. Best of luck to all of you. I can't endure this any longer. It's ruining parts of my life that it shouldn't.
Big WIllie, First - Please do not look at any Pinkston tweets unless its talking about improving his sorry run blocking!
Second - Our front office has not proven ANYTHING in this first year. Their draft was sorry at best. Yea, trading Richardson got a draft pick but it will be a low first rounder! Also, it left the Browns with NO real RBs. And should we talk about the holes they did not fill this year.
I might not have liked this season but I know when someone is being used as a scapegoat!!
Quote: Just clicking... and I haven't read through the whole 10 pages, but...
I'm hearing a lot of hate towards the FO for this, but just for a devils advocate if you will...
We know we have some talent. We also know this team has been pretty terrible. But unless someone on this board is in that locker room, we have no idea what the players REALLY feel about this staff. They're obviously going to stick up for them in the media. But how do we know there hasn't been some real anti chud going on for a while? Do we know, for sure, that Chud wasn't some total d-bag that the players aren't getting behind? Their play would seem to say that.
I'm not trying to stand up for the FO, cause this is bad on them too. And I liked Chud, but to me, this screams mutiny. I can see a possibility where the FO realized they just flat out made a mistake, or maybe the stuff coming out of Carolina wasn't just sour grapes.
I'm just having a hard time believing there isn't something beneath the surface going on here.
i get what you're saying.
but even if they felt they made a mistake, they didn't do Chud any favors. he did would he could with the players he had.
Quote: I am also waiting to hear about a press conference scheduled tomorrow morning.....all three- Haslem, Banner, and Lombardi need to be waddling out for this one.
Being reported on twitter that Lombardi will not be present at the press conference.
Of course not.
Because of almost exactly what Orangecrush said a few post above.
Props Crush!
The front office quit on this season before it even started...from being completely non-aggressive in free agency, to trading for future picks in the draft, to trading the starting running back and signing a senior citizen as his replacement.
And the best part.
They had no intention of fielding team that could compete for the playoffs this year. If you don't hold the front office accountable for quitting on the season, how can you hold the players accountable? And for-the-love-of-God, how can you hold the coach responsible?
Quote: I was just thinking about this- and decided a rebuild would be necessary. How will the new staff win over the locker room.
By not accepting mediocrity from the players. Demanding that they come to work every day and give EVERYTHING they have for that and EVERY play.
Quote: The old vets have seen regimes come and go.... when they buy in they get 2 years and then 1 year.... The attitude will leave a lot to be desired, and maybe the only way to fix it is with new blood.
Honestly, I think that a new attitude is required. You could rebuild certain parts of this team. Rip it all down and replace entire (or nearly) portions of the team.
1. I would replace the ILBs entirely, including D'Qwell Jackson. 2. I would replace nearly the entire OL. 3. I would replace most of the defensive backfield. 4. The only QB that would remain for sure is Hoyer. I might even keep Tanney as the 3rd stringer. 5. The P/K positions would have new players.
The parts that I would largely leave untouched.
1. The entire DT set would remain if possible. 2. The RBs would see Edwin Baker and Dion Lewis remain. I might even keep Ogbonnaya, but I'd eliminate the FB position entirely.
The WRs and TEs would remain mostly intact, with changes in obvious places and that's all.
Quote: We do have some players, but can we keep that nucleus together or will they get out of Cleveland as soon as they hit FA. Winning fixes everything, it can't come fast enough.
Let them get out as soon as their contracts are up. You can't force someone to sign with you. It happens to other teams too, so no big deal.
It has nothing to do with that.....Lombardi sucks at dealing with the media, a large part of the fanbase/media hate his guts and will kill him for anything he says, and in reality I doubt he is the decision maker in hiring a HC. So there really is no good reason for him to be there. Why further complicate what will already be a PR nightmare tomorrow???
Quote: I am also waiting to hear about a press conference scheduled tomorrow morning.....all three- Haslem, Banner, and Lombardi need to be waddling out for this one.
If it's going to be carried on WKRK, I'll be tuned in so I can hear it.
Quote: It has nothing to do with that.....Lombardi sucks at dealing with the media, a large part of the fanbase/media hate his guts and will kill him for anything he says, and in reality I doubt he is the decision maker in hiring a HC. So there really is no good reason for him to be there. Why further complicate what will already be a PR nightmare tomorrow???
is his job not to evaluate talent? is his job not to evaluate players in FA, other teams, signings?
so he feels he doesn't need to explain some of his decisions good or bad?
imo, i would like to know our GM's decision process when he is looking for players. i'm not asking for a damn press conference every week. but before the season and after should definitely be done.
and he has nobody to blame for fans hating him but himself.
Sure if they are talking about the draft I see your point, but since they are talking about canning a coaching staff it is delusional to think one thing relates to another.
I will make this as clear as I can. I have not read all 10 pages in this thread so I apologize for duplicating anyone's thoughts. It is time to draw a line in the sand: The Cleveland Browns will make the playoffs in 2014 or Banner and Lombardi will be fired for failing to provide a winner. After all, it is win or be fired. Right Jimmy? If these conditions are not met, I will no longer follow the Browns. I wish no harm to the team or the fans, but I can no longer tolerate the lack of integrity and character displayed by management. Mr. Haslam, you sir are a liar. You have no business owning the Cleveland Browns. I hope your dilemma with regard to Flying J forces you to sell the team. You are a disgrace to the city of Cleveland. Good riddance sir. Mr. Banner and Mr. Lombardi, you have your hands full. I suggest you get busy. Now.
Quote: Sure if they are talking about the draft I see your point, but since they are talking about canning a coaching staff it is delusional to think one thing relates to another.
but i thought the FO said its a combined decision, so isn't it partly his?
i'm not trying to bust anybody, but its just frustrating being lied to AGAIN by our FO.
This has nothing to do with the topic, but you know who i always thought would have been a good coach for the Cleveland Browns "longterm"?
Jim Tressell
Why? This team is full of younger players, the Browns have one of the youngest rosters in the NFL. For whatever reason, Tressell seems to connect with his players. He gets his players to give just that "little bit more" then you would think they are capable of. I have never seen a Jim Tressell team ever quit.....
If you have ever read his book, he has very great insights on making men out of football players....just because these guys are in the NFL don't mean they are "men". He molds young men into the "men of old" he instills values, a winning mentality, and pushing and testing yourself to the limits, and being a good human being and building a family like camaraderie with your football team.
I have always thought Tressell could possibly be the answer here...think about it...Pail Brown came to the Cleveland Browns back in the day from Ohio State, and named the team the Browns and the rest is history....wouldn't it be ironic that another former Ohio State guy comes into Cleveland just like Brown did and turns the place around?
Tressell was on the cusp of getting the Colts job but the Colts decided to go with Pagano instead.
I really think Tressell could be part of fixing things here....I think he just has that "magic" like Bill Cowher has that he gets more out of his players...he gets guys to over acheive....for whatever reason, guys seem to believe in Tressell......and Tressell is a defensive coach so there is no doubt he will have a solid defense.
Like i said, if you want to win you have to do it through the draft. I think Tressell is good at identifying talent that fits into the system he would run....I think Tressel like Cowher is a guy that can rally his team....he just has that "It factor": for a coach that I haven't seen since Cowher walked the sidelines in Pittsburgh....
Also Tressell is an Ohio Guy, even more so then Chud, the guy understands and does live, breath, think, and dream nothing but football...its probably the most important thing to the guy, and I believe if we gave Tressell a shot there is NO ONE would would work harder and more diligently then Tressell to give this town a winner...im talking this is the guy that doesn't even go home at night, and is instead drawing up gameplans, watching film, and finding ways to improve....Tressell has such a worth ethics its almost underheard of today....if for some reason he would not succeed here, it would not be for lack of putting the work in.....Also Tressell does have a backbone and guys that don't perform will hit the pine in favor of guys who are hungry to get in the action, maybe thats what this team needs.
I don't know, but at this point...I would be willing to give Tressell a shot...who knows maybe he can rally these younger guys and to get the culture turned around here.....even if he has 3-4 consecutive 8-8 seasons, that would do A LOT to help things here...to change the atmosphere around this team.
Tressell could do no worse then our past 5 coaches, he is a high risk high reward guy....if he works out, you really got yourself something, if he doesn't, your no worse off then you were with your last 5 coaches.....i think he is worth the gamble, and he would most certainly bring a lot of buzz around this team and a good positive vibe.
Because it has nothing to do with the decision to fire Chudzinski. You're trying to vent your anger at the decision to fire the HC with legal issues facing the owner's business interests outside of the Browns.
Quote: If only we had Mr. Miagi to rub his hands together to heal all the inopportune injuries at the moment they happened. All might be well.
Nope instead we get another rebuild. and this time only on the one year plan. YAY! It will be soo exciting to see all the fresh green players with deer in the headlights looks on their faces again. Until the next yearly regime change.
Another rebuild? Why? There are football players on this team. We'll have a new HC and probably a new coaching staff. *shrug* Maybe someone that'll last only a year until the next HC takes his place. I'd rather go one-&-done instead of continue with something that doesn't improve (and don't give me the injuries or QB inconsistencies). It happens to be the plays executed on the field and the play calling that got Chud fired.
I'm not sure I like the move, but I can certainly understand it from Haslam's viewpoint. I'm sure that a 4-12 season isn't what he expected when he shelled out more than $1 billion to buy the team.
Because the new staff will want "their guys." And the guys that are here now I am sure have had enough of the constant flux. My thought is the guys that can jump ship will do just that. Or they will want BUKU dollars. And then only perfom if they see hope. Which in Cleveland is RARE!
So that likely leaves this team in complete rebuild yet again. And if the next sacrificial lamb comes into an almost impossible situation. One like in which I believe Chud handled as well as could be expected. When the new dude fails in the same way . Do we get the same roundabout with no exit other than complete re-re-re-re-re-re-re-rebuild again? Fed up with it. It was one thing to expect it the last few changes. Which I will admit I was not down with a couple of them. But this time it was way out in left field with no legit reason that we know of. Hope they have a doosey of a presser.
More of the 'Woe is me! Woe are us!" mentality. Go cry on another shoulder. I'm not going to listen.
I love Tress. But I do not know about how well he would be able to handle the pros. My biggest issue with Tress at OSU was he was a bit wishy washy with his star players. And he had "family" his brother running the offense. It used to drive me nuts. we could have had Walt Harris back as O coordinator. And Tress stuck with his brother. Nepotism. Hate it. It permeates everything now a days. The best man does not always get or keep the job anymore. JMHO.
Quote: If only we had Mr. Miagi to rub his hands together to heal all the inopportune injuries at the moment they happened. All might be well.
Nope instead we get another rebuild. and this time only on the one year plan. YAY! It will be soo exciting to see all the fresh green players with deer in the headlights looks on their faces again. Until the next yearly regime change.
Another rebuild? Why? There are football players on this team. We'll have a new HC and probably a new coaching staff. *shrug* Maybe someone that'll last only a year until the next HC takes his place. I'd rather go one-&-done instead of continue with something that doesn't improve (and don't give me the injuries or QB inconsistencies). It happens to be the plays executed on the field and the play calling that got Chud fired.
I'm not sure I like the move, but I can certainly understand it from Haslam's viewpoint. I'm sure that a 4-12 season isn't what he expected when he shelled out more than $1 billion to buy the team.
Because the new staff will want "their guys." And the guys that are here now I am sure have had enough of the constant flux. My thought is the guys that can jump ship will do just that. Or they will want BUKU dollars. And then only perfom if they see hope. Which in Cleveland is RARE!
So that likely leaves this team in complete rebuild yet again. And if the next sacrificial lamb comes into an almost impossible situation. One like in which I believe Chud handled as well as could be expected. When the new dude fails in the same way . Do we get the same roundabout with no exit other than complete re-re-re-re-re-re-re-rebuild again? Fed up with it. It was one thing to expect it the last few changes. Which I will admit I was not down with a couple of them. But this time it was way out in left field with no legit reason that we know of. Hope they have a doosey of a presser.
More of the 'Woe is me! Woe are us!" mentality. Go cry on another shoulder. I'm not going to listen.
Quote: Alex Mack just seemed to think this was yet another bad idea from an organization that seems to be a think-tank for poor decisions.
Beautifully said. Also the last he'll be quoted as a Brown...
Sorry, I walked away for a while.
Unfortunately, I think that you're right. Why would anyone want to come back here? The way they treat a head coach says a lot about how they'll treat players. Why would a player want to subject himself to this crap?
Quote: Just clicking... and I haven't read through the whole 10 pages, but...
I'm hearing a lot of hate towards the FO for this, but just for a devils advocate if you will...
We know we have some talent. We also know this team has been pretty terrible. But unless someone on this board is in that locker room, we have no idea what the players REALLY feel about this staff. They're obviously going to stick up for them in the media. But how do we know there hasn't been some real anti chud going on for a while? Do we know, for sure, that Chud wasn't some total d-bag that the players aren't getting behind? Their play would seem to say that.
I'm not trying to stand up for the FO, cause this is bad on them too. And I liked Chud, but to me, this screams mutiny. I can see a possibility where the FO realized they just flat out made a mistake, or maybe the stuff coming out of Carolina wasn't just sour grapes.
I'm just having a hard time believing there isn't something beneath the surface going on here.
i get what you're saying.
but even if they felt they made a mistake, they didn't do Chud any favors. he did would he could with the players he had.
why not give him another year?
No, they didn't do any favors at all. The whole scenario looked like a play for 2014 job. That's why the firing seems quite... odd... to me.
If that was the plan for the get go, then you roll with it. Something happened. To me, it seems like Chud lost the players. If that's the case, you have to cut your loses.
I would love to have access to the players text messages right now.
I didn't ask you to cry a river for the ex-HC. I asked a specific question about why a 'rebuild' was in order.
Doesn't seem to me that a total 'rebuild' was in order when Chud took over. Chud kept most of the players that Shurmur had here.
Doesn't a rebuild imply something was actually built at one point? This has been the worst franchise in the NFL since '99. There is absolutely no rebuild going on here…the damn thing has never been built in the first place!!!
Quote: Rookie HC Chip Kelly goes to the playoffs with a 2nd year QB. Go figure.
Honestly, that really shouldn't have been all that hard to see. He was always a supremely talented and innovative coach and people focused too much on his offense and not enough on the mind/creativity behind building it. I still can't believe we didn't get him (read some of my posts about it from about a year ago.)
edit: I'm not saying I expected the Eagles to win the NFC East this year. I didn't. I'm just not all that surprised that he had the Eagles playing well sooner rather than later, that's all.
Anyway, I'm kind of dumbfounded about firing Chud. Very disappointed. You don't fire a coach after one year barring some sort of major scandle. Then again I didn't watch much of the game today but obviously it didn't go so well. I'm curious to hear the presser tomorrow but I doubt I change my mind about it much.
Thomas asks for a trade and doesn't report to camp until he gets it.
Word is he is pissed.
Not specific to Thomas ...... but why would any Browns player listen to any new head coach? Chances are that the player could be there in a couple of years if they are any good. The coach isn't likely to make it 2 years with this team.
The next head coach is going to have to work really, really hard to earn the respect of the players. Chud was really well liked and respected ..... probably even more than I thought.
The next guy better turn this team into a 10 win team, or he might be shot at dawn. We have $40 million to spend and a ton of draft picks.
Better win ,,,,,, and won a lot. Ditto for the Bozos in the front office. Frankly, they have lost me as well. I have supported these idiots ...... and now I ask myself, why? Chud worked his butt off while the front office punted the 2013 season. I now rank these guys below the fat ass who was in Berea before them.
They better have a great year next year.
Good luck to the new victim .... err scapegoat ...... umm .... I mean, the next head coach of the Cleveland Browns. Hope you survive the experience.
I didn't ask you to cry a river for the ex-HC. I asked a specific question about why a 'rebuild' was in order.
Doesn't seem to me that a total 'rebuild' was in order when Chud took over. Chud kept most of the players that Shurmur had here.
And I answered your question with the first sentence. I also answered "why" there might be a rebuild with the current roster. But you ignored it to take digs at people you do not agree with. So why not just drop it there? No you have to insult everyone that is pissed about the firing. There is no Woe. Only anger. What be patient? Get over yourself.
Quote: Chud was really well liked and respected ..... probably even more than I thought.
How do you know this? And don't tell me it's because it's what they say through the media, because what they say through the media carries zero merit. Cause i've seen though media that isn't allowed here that says quite different.
Contract mean nothing... they can always be worked out.
The NFL wants a team in Cleveland, and they want it to be a successful team. That's why they worked so hard to put together the Haslam deal, and why they were so horrifies when the rebate crap came out at Pilot/Flying J.
The Browns are a cornerstone franchise. They want us to be successful. It's good for the NFL. Unfortunately, it seems like things may have backfired.
Because it has nothing to do with the decision to fire Chudzinski. You're trying to vent your anger at the decision to fire the HC with legal issues facing the owner's business interests outside of the Browns.
That's rather pathetic.
I think looking into the character, or lack thereof, of the man in charge definitely has something to do with the decisions being made.
we can agree to disagree, but I don't want to start an argument about that on this thread as i don't want to derail from the topic anymore...All im saying is it raises ethical questions about how things are being run and could bear some relevence...of course we will never know what goes on behind closed doors of course.
I guess we will just respectfully agree to disagree on this matter.
Quote: I'd add DQ to that list as well. He's a soft leader. He's also due a $4M roster bonus this coming year. I think he's gone.
And i think, deep down inside, that he would be happy to be gone, and most veterans on this team with long term contracts might be jealous of him.
This is a lousy environment right now. It is poison. The players heard crap about accountability from the front office, yet they have all said that he brought accountability to the locker room.
Quote: Who cares who the next coach is? He'll be fired by next year anyway.
Dumbest move I've seen from this team in quite some time. I expect they'll change back to a 4-3 and run a ball possession offense.
If we hire Josh McDaniels...I don't know if I can root for this team anymore.
Who is going to want to come here?
Seriously.
Why go to a team where you are likely to be fired in a year or 2. Not a chance of it happening, but likely to happen.
This team is a joke right now. I wonder, if we have a 5 win season next year, if Haslam just cleans house at that point?
This is no way to run a team.
If I am a head coach prospect, and I have ANY options elsewhere, I have to look seriously at them. Why would I want to come here? No QB, and a history of firing coaches at the drop of a hat. The last 4 head coaches fired by AFCN teams have been Cleveland Browns head coaches.
i agree Ytown...this was just a dirty move no matter how you look at it.....
even if the next guy comes in and does better, whos to say Chud couldn't? its not like Chud had a QB, RB, or anything this year......im sure Chud told this FO when he was hired that him and Turner's Air Coryell O won't work without a decent QB...See Aikman, Philip Rivers, etc...you have to have a QB to run this thing...what did these guys expect? We don't have that kinda QB on the roster yet.
I would have to assume that the understanding was to get that kinda QB in the draft this year, so why fire Chud? How can this possibly be constructive...we made some progress this year, we were in nearly every game, and would have beaten the Pats had the refs not handed crybaby Tom Brady the game....he was a 1st year coach....it takes time to implement new systems....its illogical to expect such a turn around with this roster in such a short amount of time.
I feel bad for chud, but he will get picked up as a Coordinator/position coach on another team pretty quickly I think.
I can only assume that Chud's firing is something of a vote of confidence by the front office for our current group of QBs, or at least an implication that they don't think that QB is the issue that it clearly is, and that worries me greatly.
j/c Anyone else notice that Carolina is the #2 seed in the NFC? Offense took off this year, and Cam took a big jump. I wonder if it was because Chud left?
I'm a little stunned over the whole thing.......the season really. I wish somehow we wouldn't suck so bad. Sigh.
Quote: Chud was really well liked and respected ..... probably even more than I thought.
How do you know this? And don't tell me it's because it's what they say through the media, because what they say through the media carries zero merit. Cause i've seen though media that isn't allowed here that says quite different.
Because a writer I respect a great deal, Terry Pluto, has said that he has NEVER seen an angrier locker room in all of the time he has covered the team. The players are extremely mad about the team (going to ..... at that point) fire Chud.
We can ignore the people who cover the team and pretend whatever we think is the case, but I respect certain members of the media who cover the team, because they tell it how it is when reporting on the team. Pluto is one of those guys. If he reports something as fact, it's fact.
Further, the theme of every article reporting on the locker room is one of anger. I have watched the videos of Thomas and DQ, and they are mad. Joe Thomas is quoted as saying "You look at the great franchises. They don’t fire your coach after the first season. You can’t do it,”
So ...... I guess that says where he stands with the decision. Actually, if you watch the video of him talking about it, he has that same forced smile he has when he talks about losing a game badly ...... that "I am going to smile so I don't swear and/or kill someone"I have seen that same smile after the team takes a real beatdown.
We'll see what comments come out from other players after the new cycle starts tomorrow. I would think that most players would hear from their agents to speak very carefully, or not at all. I bet that it won't matter for some players.
The players also quit on Chud, so maybe they were too comfortable with him.
Still a stupid move, but players reactions matter very little to me. The players are too soft and too worried about how to make things easier for themselves.
Quote: j/c Anyone else notice that Carolina is the #2 seed in the NFC? Offense took off this year, and Cam took a big jump. I wonder if it was because Chud left?
Carolina's offense with Cam at QB was always good. They had an atrocious defense the past two years. They have a really good defense this year.
Your not worried about Banner? ... Who would u be worried about then? ... When he was hired I was like ... huh .... who's this dude .... did some research and decided since we really have no clue exactly what his role was in personal decisions in Phili I would take a wait and see approach ... what I did know was that he was GREAT with the cap and that he quit right after they re-signed Deshaun Jackson and he said that was a horrible contract .... so I was going to take a wait and see approach but I really liked that fact ...
then he hired Lombardi .... and I said ... rough ro ... do we have another bag of rocks??? .... cause Lombardi is a buffoon ... he's not good ... I could care less what Billicheck says about him ... ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS and he had a chance to hire the guy he thinks is a genius and one of the best in the business yet he had NO SPOT for him ... and at that point ... Lombardi may have taken a spot in the laundry room to get back to the NFL ..
anyhow ... I regress ... please explain to me why your not deathly afraid of Banner? .... ESPECIALLY NOT NOW!!!!!
I know I'm really afraid of Haslam ... he scares the crap out of me ... hopefully he gets convicted soon and has to sell ...
this is the most I've been excited since our return ... cause of this coaching staff ... and how were positioned in the draft and with the cap .... and then ... BAMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ... right in the f'n nuts .... I still can't believe they did it ... FRICKIN INCREDIBLE ...
now ... I have ZERO faith in these bozos to do the right thing .. NONE ... I'm sure we'll f up the picks ... and what FA's are going to want to STAY or COME here ...
I'm sure Norv turner is going to have lots of influence with lots of coaches/players around the league .... and U know that this crap is not operated in a vacuum .... Norv's phone will be ringing off the hook with folks seeking his opinion on this FO and Org ... prolly not gonna be a good one ...
I will always be a Browns fan ... but until these bozos are gone I'm gonna be a less interested Brown fan ... with ZERO EXPECTATIONS ...
Come on Feds .. Lets get Jimmy Boy behind bars ..... I'm getting pretty old ...
HEY .... IF ANY of u Dawgs know of a place where I can contribute to a fund for a billboard as close to the Browns HQ's at possible that wishes Jimmy well in prison and that he can't get there soon enough for us .... please send me a PM ... and I'm not kidding ...
Quote: HEY .... IF ANY of u Dawgs know of a place where I can contribute to a fund for a billboard as close to the Browns HQ's at possible that wishes Jimmy well in prison and that he can't get there soon enough for us .... please send me a PM ... and I'm not kidding ...
Thanks in advance ....
I'd chip in. Seriously. The guys on the NFL Network were laughing their asses off at the Browns tonight. Phil Dawson kicked a winning FG, someone said "wasn't he on the Browns" and Sanders said "one Brown got into the playoffs" and they all busted up laughing.
These guys now admit they made a horrible unfixable mistake hiring Chud(their opinion not mine). These guys couldn't pull off a fan appreciation day pep-rally concert event. And I'm supposed to believe they can successfully choose and draft a franchise quarterback? Dark times loom for the Factory of Sadness.
I find myself in a unique situation. I despise the 49er's but I'm actually hoping they win the Super Bowl. Dawson deserves a ring.... BIG time.
How do you preach stability and building a different attitude when you do this to Chud?
1 year? 1 year? really???
The only people who should be fired is the front office for the ridiculous talent level Chud had to work with after they made their moves. We can stockpile all the picks you want when we dont have dire need in hi profile positions.
Quote: Jay Glazer and Ian Rapaport are reporting Chud has been officially fired.
Now, if Haslam had any onions and fire Banner/Lombo along with him too and then apologize having made wrong decisions?….then maybe I'd at least listen, but yeah: fat chance, lol
Sad day
This could be the first step in that direction. Don't be so sure one or both of Lombardi/Banner won't be gone if we flop next season.
I feel bad for Chud and do think one season isn't enough. That said, we did underacheive this season. We have better players then the record indicates. Chud was also the guy making the calls on who starts. He went with Weeden over Campbel/Hoyer at the beginning of the season. He is the guy who kept marching Bess out in to the slot when it is pretty clear to me Cooper should have been playing much earlier than he did. There are probably some internal things we don't know about that also weighed in to the decision.
I don't like it, but I do like we aren't afraid to make changes quickly if we feel a bad decision was made.
As far as coaches not wanting to come here, I don't buy that. As long as they get their 4-5 year deal inked, that is the only security they care about.
As an addendum....I can agree that FA players might shy away since they don't have the same security.
Quote: Who cares who the next coach is? He'll be fired by next year anyway.
Dumbest move I've seen from this team in quite some time. I expect they'll change back to a 4-3 and run a ball possession offense.
If we hire Josh McDaniels...I don't know if I can root for this team anymore.
Who is going to want to come here?
Seriously.
Why go to a team where you are likely to be fired in a year or 2. Not a chance of it happening, but likely to happen.
This team is a joke right now. I wonder, if we have a 5 win season next year, if Haslam just cleans house at that point?
This is no way to run a team.
If I am a head coach prospect, and I have ANY options elsewhere, I have to look seriously at them. Why would I want to come here? No QB, and a history of firing coaches at the drop of a hat. The last 4 head coaches fired by AFCN teams have been Cleveland Browns head coaches.
Wonder why we suck?
Yeah,a good HC needs some control of his roster and Banner and Lombardi don't run that way.I think that's the biggest reason C.Kelly passed on the Browns,and why others would too.These guys have too much control,and didn't do the Browns any big favors in this last draft by taking Mingo,so whoever the new coach is,he is going to have to be creative and flexible.I'll give the FO one more year,and if things don't improve dramatically...then it's open war.
I have no feelings right now over Chud getting fired. he didnt perform plain as that. the team went on a 7-game losing steak. questionable playcalls, personel and coverages all fall on his shoulders. He did nothing imo to prove he can handle the job he had. just because players seemed to like him isnt a reason to keep him. Sticking with him just to do so isnt a winning formula either.
lets not forget here Chud wasnt their 1st, 2nd, or evern 3rd or 4th choice for HC. He was what was left over. and the FO was in a win/win situation. if he worked out great, but if not they can replace him. I feel like they already have "their" guy all lined up to take over or they wouldnt of pulled the plug.
Lets not forget the outrage over the T-Rich trade, and it seems the FO knew what Jim Brown knew. Richardson was an average rb at best and got the most value they could for him. smart move, and good decision. i feel the same way about Chud. Average or slightly below average HC.
I am tired of being below average, or just average. And I think the FO is as well, Chud while anice guy wasnt ever going to lead this team to a lombardi trophy. I give Banner,Haslam, Lombardi credit for realizing this and doing whats best for buisness. you guys wanted a 10 win season, heck with that. Its time we hold everyone accountable. Its gotta be super bowl or bust each year. thats the mindset we need.
best of luck to Chud the Dud, and to anyone who no longer wants to cheer for the browns, or play for the Browns. I gotta feeling things are going to turn around sooner than later. and if the O'Brien reports are true then good luck to him. he is going to need it.
I have become so numb to this loser we have had since 99 i have nothing but faith it can only go up from here. once you hit rock bottom there is only one direction to go from there and thats up.
I have no feelings right now over Chud getting fired. he didnt perform plain as that. the team went on a 7-game losing steak. questionable playcalls, personel and coverages all fall on his shoulders. He did nothing imo to prove he can handle the job he had. just because players seemed to like him isnt a reason to keep him. Sticking with him just to do so isnt a winning formula either.
lets not forget here Chud wasnt their 1st, 2nd, or evern 3rd or 4th choice for HC. He was what was left over. and the FO was in a win/win situation. if he worked out great, but if not they can replace him. I feel like they already have "their" guy all lined up to take over or they wouldnt of pulled the plug.
Lets not forget the outrage over the T-Rich trade, and it seems the FO knew what Jim Brown knew. Richardson was an average rb at best and got the most value they could for him. smart move, and good decision. i feel the same way about Chud. Average or slightly below average HC.
I am tired of being below average, or just average. And I think the FO is as well, Chud while anice guy wasnt ever going to lead this team to a lombardi trophy. I give Banner,Haslam, Lombardi credit for realizing this and doing whats best for buisness. you guys wanted a 10 win season, heck with that. Its time we hold everyone accountable. Its gotta be super bowl or bust each year. thats the mindset we need.
best of luck to Chud the Dud, and to anyone who no longer wants to cheer for the browns, or play for the Browns. I gotta feeling things are going to turn around sooner than later. and if the O'Brien reports are true then good luck to him. he is going to need it.
I have become so numb to this loser we have had since 99 i have nothing but faith it can only go up from here. once you hit rock bottom there is only one direction to go from there and thats up.
Go Browns!
how can you have superbowl or bust mentality when you can even compete for the division, let alone a wild card spot?
we have to have a consistent players and coaches going before we think superbowl.
thats like trying to go to space without making sure you have enough fuel in the first place.
its simple, do what ever it takes to improve your roster. draft/trade/FA do what ever it takes to put a winner out there. stop playing for average, or accepting average.
this franchise has been too happy to shoot for mediocre for far too long. culture change is coming....and i for one welcome it.
you have to bring in someone who demands the best out of his players and assistants. not someone who coddles his players, or makes excuses for poor staff decisons. tired of excuses, until we lose this wait til next year approach we arent winning squat. win now, win often has to be the goal with the new guy we bring in.
be agressive and do what ever it takes, popular or not to improve this team.
Quote: The NFL wants a team in Cleveland, and they want it to be a successful team. That's why they worked so hard to put together the Haslam deal, and why they were so horrifies when the rebate crap came out at Pilot/Flying J.
The Browns are a cornerstone franchise. They want us to be successful. It's good for the NFL. Unfortunately, it seems like things may have backfired.
Browns coach Rob Chudzinski was fired Sunday night after one season in Cleveland. When news leaked of Chud's possible dismissal earlier in the day, Browns players were not enthused.
"It's just absurd to me that a report would be out like that, about a good coach like that. It's crazy, and that (ticked) me off when I heard that," Browns linebacker D'Qwell Jackson said Sunday afternoon, via The Associated Press.
"We are so dysfunctional," one Browns player told NFL Media columnist Michael Silver on Sunday. "These billionaires need to pick somebody and stay with them. These aren't girlfriends. You can't dump them if they (fail to please you) one time."
"I'm on the wrong bus and very happy I don't have to sit on bus (No. 1, with Chudzinski) in awkwardness," another member of the team told Silver.
NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport said, via a team source, that the Browns' front office believed the club was getting worse every week.
"More time wasn't going to help," said the source.
The front office and eventual head coach will have some smoothing over to do with veterans when the team reconvenes this offseason.
"You look at the great franchises," Browns left tackle Joe Thomas told the Akron Beacon Journal, "they don't fire your coach after the first season. You can't do it."
It's especially painful for longtime Cleveland players who have watched the ultra-consistent Steelers, Ravens and Bengals reach the playoffs for years on end, while the Browns -- once again -- can't get out of their own way.
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I haven't heard many players really complaining about this firing. It's the same quotes over and over.
A few weeks ago, a poster sent me an Insider report that stated the players were blaming the coaches for the losing. They were complaining about all kinds of things that the coaches were doing.
It made me mad to read that at the time and it is making me mad to hear the players complain now.
My advice to the players. Play harder. Win some games. Stop complaining about things you can't control.
This team quit down the stretch. Quit!!! Some were blaming the coaching staff for the losses. Now others are blaming the FO.
Pffftttttttttttt..............the Browns need to change the culture. Not sure how they are going to do it, but we have to get rid of the cancers.
Quote: Pffftttttttttttt..............the Browns need to change the culture. Not sure how they are going to do it, but we have to get rid of the cancers.
Well apparently, the Browns feel they just did. And I am sure more is to come.
Quote: Your not worried about Banner? ... Who would u be worried about then?
Haslam.
I think Banner is very smart. I think he will work harder than others to make this team a winner.
Now, back to Haslam. I'm upset because he freaking lied. He said that while he was in Pittsburgh, he learned that continuity was extremely important. He spoke of not firing guys and sticking w/the plan.
Bro, you know I hated Junior. I hated that wimp because he never had the fortitude to stick w/a plan. I thought Haslam was going to be different. He said he was going to be different.
Recently, I read one of those Insider reports that said Haslam was furious over the team's late-season performance and that heads were going to roll. I didn't think too much of it because those reports are hit and miss AND Haslam said he believed in continuity. I didn't think he could possibly be as dumb as Junior.
Well, nothing has changed. If Chud is really that much of a dud, why the heck did they hire him in the first place? If he was a good candidate, why not stay the course?
Albert Breer of the NFL Network reporting that a rift between Chud and the FO began several weeks ago when Chud was told to cut at least one player (presumably) Greg Little to send a message to the team and demand accountability. He went on to suggest the FO wanted him to agree to cut Weeden as well with the thought Chud gave him too many chances. Chud refused to cut these players, obviously. The divide was set between the FO and Chud after that, allegedly.
There are also reports out there that say the players were ready to start a mutiny and that's why Chud is gone.
I don't know what the real reason or reasons are, but it's the same old crap. Other teams are going to the playoffs and we are looking for a new head coach.
Quote: There are also reports out there that say the players were ready to start a mutiny and that's why Chud is gone.
I don't know what the real reason or reasons are, but it's the same old crap. Other teams are going to the playoffs and we are looking for a new head coach.
Chud probably should have done that...That being said the Browns made a mistake in only giving him one year unless they have a coach who is clearly better who they will bring in.
The thing that bothers me is that they deliberately leaked the firing DURING the game....then saying "No Comment" also DURING the game. Chud finds out from other avenues of information and has to demand a meeting that very night just to get it over with.
This is just like Richardson hearing he got traded from a friend calling him.
Regardless of they're right or wrong about this firing, the way they have been doing these moves is absolutely cowardly and unprofessional. What coach or players want to come here after witnessing what has transpired over the past 12 months.
For me, this is an indictment on the character of Haslem, Banner, and Lombardi. Sorry, but it is.
I was initially shocked by the move like I was shocked by the Richardson trade, but at the end of the day what do we lose? An attacking defense that doesn't attack and allows opposing offenses to score at will? An uninspired, outdated offense that can't convert a third down or score from the red zone? An uninspiring coach who lost 10 of 11 games and allowed the team to spiral out of control after the bye week and lose every 4th quarter lead we had?
The team is a mess, the organization is completely screwed up, but this move isn't the worst thing that could have happened. I have very little interest in this team as things stand right now, but the team, situation and culture (almost) certainly can't get any worse.
If true, that's exactly why I feared this kind of "consensus" thingy. FO talking into Coache's job and vice versa…not good. Everybody should know their job and held accountable for it. So when the consenus could not settle on a group decision they decided to cut the one that disagrees? So if you can't find a consensus, you force one by getting rid of the one disagreeing….Nice consensus lol
• A totally Brownsian firing. Can you imagine what it must have been like to be lifelong Browns fan and 2013 Browns coach Rob Chudzinski Sunday night around 9, getting blindsided by the rumors of your firing after the last game of the season in Pittsburgh, wondering on the two-hour bus ride home if they could possibly be true, and then listening to club president Joe Banner destroy your dream, dismissing you after just 352 days of a four-year contract? I can’t imagine a more unexpected and brutal way to go. I told the news to one of the stalwart Browns, linebacker D’Qwell Jackson, at 9:55 Sunday night. “We fired Chud? Are you kidding me?” he said, stunned. Wish I was.
Quote: There are also reports out there that say the players were ready to start a mutiny and that's why Chud is gone.
The problem is, I'm more inclined to believe Joe and DQ, the captains of the offense and defense respectively, who are on tape voicing their support for Chud, than I am to believe some random message board poster citing an insider article with vague details that I haven't seen with my own two eyes. Sorry, that's just the way it is.
You're not going to get a team mutiny without Joe and DQ, they are way too respected in the locker room for that to happen.
Browns made decision to fire Rob Chudzinski before Sunday's game in Pittsburgh
The firing of Browns first-year coach Rob Chudzinski blindsided the players, media and fans on Sunday night.
But like the trade of running back Trent Richardson in September – the first defining moment of this regime -- the decision was discussed at length internally and was made with conviction. In the end, neither Chudzinski nor his coordinators were as stunned as everyone else.
Sources inside the organization told ESPN Cleveland that owner Jimmy Haslam and CEO Joe Banner arrived at the decision prior to Sunday’s 20-7 loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers. Nothing that happened in the game was going to save Chudzinski’s job, a source confirmed.
As late as November, Banner was singing the praises of Chudzinski for keeping the team together during a difficult stretch of quarterback injuries and other unforeseen circumstances, such as the Richardson trade.
But as the losses mounted, friction escalated between management and the coaches.
The coaches became unsatisfied with the front office’s response to holes in the roster. For example, management wanted to blend in more younger players and expected the coaches to get them up to speed. When the toll of additional injuries taxed the roster, Chudzinski was expected to win with a threadbare roster.
A case in point was the quick de-activation of cornerback Chris Owens on injured reserve to give playing time to rookie draft pick Leon McFadden, whom the coaches had buried on the bench. Owens later asked for his release once he was medically cleared from a knee injury and was signed by the Miami Dolphins.
There were disagreements between Chudzinski and General Manager Mike Lombardi, though Banner regarded them as healthy and not out of line.
Other smaller issues arose. At one point, Chudzinski was urged by Banner to “shake up” the locker room by cutting wide receiver Greg Little or guard Shawn Lauvao. Chudzinski declined, and that was interpreted as Chudzinski not holding players accountable for their failings.
In recent weeks, a disagreement arose about a future role for receivers coach Scott Turner, the son of coordinator Norv Turner. Chudzinski, a source said, wanted to switch Turner to running backs coach. Norv Turner objected and the brushfire became another strike against Chudzinski.
Ultimately, the reasoning behind the dismissal was summed up in the following sentence from the team’s official statement announcing the firing at 9:35 Sunday night:
“We needed to see development and improvement as the season evolved and, unfortunately, we took a concerning step backward in the second half of the year.”
The losses – seven in a row, nine out of the last 10 and 12 overall – reduced Chudzinski’s credibility to almost zero. Haslam, said one source, was furious with the loss to the New York Jets. He felt the players quit on the coach that afternoon.
“The team not only didn’t improve, it got worse,” said an organization source. “That’s very unusual for a first-year coach and staff.”
The fact that every first-year staff in the NFL had a better record than the Browns – Jacksonville’s was the same 4-12 and included a win in Cleveland – was a death blow to Chudzinski’s tenure.
The bad PR stemming from firing a coach after only one season did not faze Haslam and Banner.
When they explain their decision at a press conference Monday, they will recite recent examples of coaches being one and done -- seven since 2000 -- most recently Jacksonville’s Mike Mularkey after a 2-14 season in 2012, Oakland’s Hue Jackson after 8-8 in 2011 and Seattle’s Jim Mora after 5-11 in 2009.
Before the firing became official, team leaders, such as Joe Thomas and D’Qwell Jackson, reacted angrily to questions about Chudzinski’s future after the game. An organization source said player reaction was “a concern,” but that the new coach would be tasked with reinstalling confidence and unity.
As for potential successors, Penn State’s Bill O’Brien and New England assistant Josh McDaniels have been mentioned in several media quarters. Both have strong associations with Lombardi, who was extremely influential in last year’s search despite not being officially introduced to the media until eight days after Chudzinski was named coach.
O’Brien was interviewed by the Browns in January, which helped him receive a new contract from Penn State. O’Brien is considered a favorite for the vacancy with the Houston Texans, but the team has said it will interview other candidates.
The Browns have to comply with NFL rules by interviewing a minority candidate. It’s possible that defensive coordinator Ray Horton, who auditioned for head coach last year, will receive another interview to comply with the rule.
Otherwise, it is expected that Chudzinski’s assistant staff will be released after exit interviews Monday morning.
How will Haslam and Banner deal with fan outrage over the quick hook given to Chudzinski while they profess to favor continuity and stability?
One clue was contained in the team’s official statement on Chudzinski’s firing.
In part it read: "Our fans deserve to see a consistently competitive team. We have high standards, and there's an urgency for success. When we believed we were not positioned to achieve significant progress in 2014, we knew we had to admit that a change was needed, and move forward.”
No surprise there... I'm still shocked that chud is out... But it sounds like it was more clashing with other coaches and members of the FO that got him fired rather than the win loss record
Does this type of interplay ....suggestions made to the coach on how to handle his roster ...happen on other teams as well? But since other teams win it is no big deal?
Because it sure seemed that the FO was stepping on Chuds toes and interfering with his job.
The thing I was really surprised to hear was a potential rift between Chud and Turner.
Sounds like Turner and Horton are going to be let go as well. So we bring in another all new coaching staff next year and they finish 4-12....I guess we should let them go as well and keep on plugging in a new coach and new offensive and defensive coordinators until "progress" is made?
Well, the reports are suggesting the same things I concluded out of this mess.
FO talking into Coache's terrain, asking Chud to fire certain players "to show" accountability. Guess Chud went over a line asking THEM for accountability when pointing at the depth chart, like: Hey LomBanner, if you want me to cut Little or Lauvao or Owens, maybe give me better talent to work with behind them than Tyms or Cousins/Gilkey or McFadden/Posey
Chud wanted to put his team in the best possible situation to win games, he's a coach. That was his priority.
LomBanner wanted to throw around "messages" of fear by bullwhipping players, either because they're vain idiots or because they really thought it would "change the culture". You can guess whatever their priorities are, but it looks a lot like they're all about "appearance"…at all cost
This latest Browns move is almost incomprehensible. Haslam and Banner came into town preaching the importance of continuity. They hire the guy they made the decision on. Not like Mangini with Holmgren.
What kind of table does this set for the next guy. "We are starting a new culture about winning and we believe that continuity is the key". The hypocrisy just drips off the page.
This just rings of some kind of personal thing. Given the circumstances that made the team what it was this season what did Haslam and Banner expect? They played with 3 quarterbacks and had no running game. Take Aaron Rodgers off Green Bay or the starting quarterback off any team and what do the results look like.
Looking at this team from the outside ( not as a Browns fan or someone from Cleveland) it reeks of dysfunction. You got a owner staring at a Federal rap sheet. Banner who did not come up through football ranks in regards to scouting and player evaluation. Lombardi who's record as a personnel man is questionable. Does not really look like a formula for success.
This move on top of another 4 win season feels like barf stuck in your throat.
Have no idea how this latest move can be seen as a step in the right direction or helping the team move toward success.
Quote: Well, the reports are suggesting the same things I concluded out of this mess.
FO talking into Coache's terrain, asking Chud to fire certain players "to show" accountability. Guess Chud went over a line asking THEM for accountability when pointing at the depth chart, like: Hey LomBanner, if you want me to cut Little or Lauvao or Owens, maybe give me better talent to work with behind them than Tyms or Cousins/Gilkey or McFadden/Posey
Chud wanted to put his team in the best possible situation to win games, he's a coach. That was his priority.
LomBanner wanted to throw around "messages" of fear by bullwhipping players, either because they're vain idiots or because they really thought it would "change the culture". You can guess whatever their priorities are, but it looks a lot like they're all about "appearance"…at all cost
So ugly….
This is pretty scary.
I've read so many concerning things recently that make all players in this saga look bad ...from Chud all the way up.
The most recent is that Banner has created such a toxic environment that the coaches and players have felt for most of the season that its a "us vs them" mentality.
Why on earth would anyone want to be a part of that?
But Jimmy apparently loves him some Banner. And Jimmy appears to be just as much of an idiot.
Maybe this is what the NFL wanted ....continued dysfunction in Cleveland.
1) I forced myself to be optimistic this year and give these guys the benefit of the doubt. I feel I can safely eat crow. What a bunch of buffoons.
2) I'm not mad that Chud was fired because of who he is, I'm mad he was fired because of the situation. Was he the greatest coach in the world? Nope. You see a team like Jacksonville play hard through the end of the season and you see our team crap the bed. Gotta hold Chud accountable for that.
3) My problem is that, at the beginning of the year, they talked about "consensus", that nothing would be done unless everyone agreed. Then, they tell Chud to cut players, Chud refuses, so they punish him? That doesn't sound like "consensus." That sounds like all the stuff about Banner being a jerk and Lombardi being a goof are true.
4) And cutting a guy to send a message? If they cut Lauvao, would Schwartz suddenly begin playing better? If they cut Weeden, would Campbell suddenly start playing better? I can see failure to hold guys accountable for off the field stuff. But if a guy stinks on the field, you don't just cut him, IMO.
I said this when Tom Heckert was let go last year: Get ready for a really bad stretch of football.
haha come on Bro, this is a roster full of his players....
And 4 out of the 6 are pro bowlers that he drafted. None of the guys the new FO brought in even came close.
Pro Bowl players on a team that hasn't won more than 5 games since they've been here. Tell me more about how he set us up for greatness.
Come on man, throwing out Pro Bowl players is just garbage. We probably have more than the Jets and they have 8 wins, not 4. Pro Bowls are a consolation prize for garbage teams that don't make the playoffs. Losely based off Fantasy Football and Fan voting both of which I could absolutely not care less about.
I said this when Tom Heckert was let go last year: Get ready for a really bad stretch of football.
haha come on Bro, this is a roster full of his players....
And 4 out of the 6 are pro bowlers that he drafted. None of the guys the new FO brought in even came close.
Pro Bowl players on a team that hasn't won more than 5 games since they've been here. Tell me more about how he set us up for greatness.
Come on man, throwing out Pro Bowl players is just garbage. We probably have more than the Jets and they have 8 wins, not 4. Pro Bowls are a consolation prize for garbage teams that don't make the playoffs. Losely based off Fantasy Football and Fan voting both of which I could absolutely not care less about.
True. I just pointed it out cause it at least shows we have some talent.
Honestly , you're right. It doesn't even matter at this point.
I said this when Tom Heckert was let go last year: Get ready for a really bad stretch of football.
haha come on Bro, this is a roster full of his players....
And 4 out of the 6 are pro bowlers that he drafted. None of the guys the new FO brought in even came close.
Pro Bowl players on a team that hasn't won more than 5 games since they've been here. Tell me more about how he set us up for greatness.
Come on man, throwing out Pro Bowl players is just garbage. We probably have more than the Jets and they have 8 wins, not 4. Pro Bowls are a consolation prize for garbage teams that don't make the playoffs. Losely based off Fantasy Football and Fan voting both of which I could absolutely not care less about.
True. I just pointed it out cause it at least shows we have some talent.
Honestly , you're right. It doesn't even matter at this point.
Yeah, I'm just frustrated. I get a lot of my family arguing with me about how much "Talent" we have and they just can't understand my "So what?" pessimism.
Agreed. I think these guys are bafoons, but so were Holmgren and Heckert. I can remember watching every FO since rebirth stink, and can pretty much point you to a particular incident that let me know these guys weren't the answer. For H/H it was holding onto Mangini, and then sealing it with the last draft that was utter crap. I wanted to believe in these guys, but this kills it.
I have no problem firing Chud as some of things that have been mentioned (team didn't improve, they quit..etc) are pretty accurate. The problem is Jimmy and Banner were all over Chud's nuts as the next "Big Thing" a year ago.............utter incompetence.
In reality, Chud was there 3rd choice, because the other guys said no. They were so arrogantly sure that they would get Kelly/BO'b that they were stunned when they were turned down. Now these same arrogant goofs think that this time will be different and they can persuade BO'b to come to this mess.
I hope they are right and get BO'b, because he is the best coaching prospect we have had since Butch (and Butch could coach he just needed a GM). The problem is we will get stuck with McDaniels who is an utter clown.
Quote: The NFL wants a team in Cleveland, and they want it to be a successful team. That's why they worked so hard to put together the Haslam deal, and why they were so horrifies when the rebate crap came out at Pilot/Flying J.
The Browns are a cornerstone franchise. They want us to be successful. It's good for the NFL. Unfortunately, it seems like things may have backfired.
Was that supposed to be in purple?
No. This is very true. The NFL considers it a shame that a cornerstone franchise has been so bad for so long. Once Lerner was considering selling the team, they wanted to find a solid buyer. That's why they put Lerner and Haslam together. Haslam was a minority owner in a franchise that has done it right for a very long time. That's why they were so enthusiastic to have him buy the team.
Of course, then the crapstorm started as soon as Haslam closed the deal ........
Quote: There are also reports out there that say the players were ready to start a mutiny and that's why Chud is gone.
I don't know what the real reason or reasons are, but it's the same old crap. Other teams are going to the playoffs and we are looking for a new head coach.
I have read almost everything on Chud's firing, and have not come across anything like this. Can you link to it for me?
Quote: Your not worried about Banner? ... Who would u be worried about then?
Haslam.
I think Banner is very smart. I think he will work harder than others to make this team a winner.
Now, back to Haslam. I'm upset because he freaking lied. He said that while he was in Pittsburgh, he learned that continuity was extremely important. He spoke of not firing guys and sticking w/the plan.
Bro, you know I hated Junior. I hated that wimp because he never had the fortitude to stick w/a plan. I thought Haslam was going to be different. He said he was going to be different.
Recently, I read one of those Insider reports that said Haslam was furious over the team's late-season performance and that heads were going to roll. I didn't think too much of it because those reports are hit and miss AND Haslam said he believed in continuity. I didn't think he could possibly be as dumb as Junior.
Well, nothing has changed. If Chud is really that much of a dud, why the heck did they hire him in the first place? If he was a good candidate, why not stay the course?
Freaking Browns.
My only concern with blaming Haslem for this whole ordeal is that Banner repeatedly stated everything would be a consensus decision. I find it hard to believe this is all on Haslem. Especially reading reports on how there was a rift between the FO and Chud regarding cutting certain players as a sign accountability.
Wrong or right in Chud being fired, I just have a hard time laying the blame on Haslem alone. What concerns me most is 11 months ago these folks were tellings us what a great hire Chud was and how everyone was on the same page, yada yada and it is proven to be dysfunctional. And now I'm supposed to be believe this get it right this time?
They will have a complete and total disaster and possibly unrecoverable mess on their hands if the Browns go 4-12 or 5-11 next year.
I guess that there was a consensus of sorts.... there is no way that this happens without a consensus among Lombardi, Banner, and Haslam. Although, I guess I could see a scenario where Haslam wasn't part of the decision making process and was just informed by Banner what he and Lombardi were doing. Afterall, he hired them to run the business for him.
Eh, these guys are just the latest part of the running joke that this franchise has become.
Accountability is about working your hardest and doing your best. From every report I have seen, Weeden worked hard to improve, he just wasn't good enough. Little busted his ass in training camp, working with other position groups to improve his skills. Lauvao worked hard to come back from injury.
If you want accountability, these aren't the guys you cut. You may make a decision the following season based upon their skill level, or if a better player becomes available to take their roster spot, but what message does cutting them in the middle of a season just to cut them send? "Sorry, your best just isn't good enough."?
If you have a guy who is under-performing, and not working hard, then that is the guy you dump. If you have a guy who is working hard, but failing because he just doesn't have the ability, that could be addressed in season, but not as a matter of "accountability", Further, you need someone behind the player in question.
To me, accountability would be a player not working hard in practice, or during the week, so the team punishes or releases him. (or maybe benches him) It's not saying, in season, "We don't think that this player is good enough, so cut him to send a message." What message? That if you aren't goo enough, you're gone? I think that most players know that.
I also wonder just how public these disagreements were, and if that could have played a role in the decline in the level of play we saw in the last couple of weeks. If players overheard Lombardi demanding that Chud cut certain players, or Banner saying that he has to make do with certain positions, because that's what they are giving him, that could kill a team's spirit.
That's my speculation. It sounds like it was a rather poisonous environment inside Berea.
There is no way that Haslem wasn't involved with this. Reports are he was furious with the team's play down the stretch and left early at the Pitt game. Furthermore, there is no way a FO fires a HC without the owner knowing beforehand.
I wish he had been oblivious to this because it would mean maybe he wasn't another goof owner, and maybe Banner/Lombardi would be next for pulling off an asinine move like that. However, neither are true and Haslem is an idiot.........as Diam says are only hope is Jimmy goes to prison and is forced to sell the team.
I said this when Tom Heckert was let go last year: Get ready for a really bad stretch of football.
haha come on Bro, this is a roster full of his players....
And 4 out of the 6 are pro bowlers that he drafted. None of the guys the new FO brought in even came close.
Pro Bowl players on a team that hasn't won more than 5 games since they've been here. Tell me more about how he set us up for greatness.
Come on man, throwing out Pro Bowl players is just garbage. We probably have more than the Jets and they have 8 wins, not 4. Pro Bowls are a consolation prize for garbage teams that don't make the playoffs. Losely based off Fantasy Football and Fan voting both of which I could absolutely not care less about.
True. I just pointed it out cause it at least shows we have some talent.
Honestly , you're right. It doesn't even matter at this point.
Yeah, I'm just frustrated. I get a lot of my family arguing with me about how much "Talent" we have and they just can't understand my "So what?" pessimism.
The Chefs were 2-14 last year with 7 pro bowlers. Its amazing what a difference a new coach and new qb can make. I believe that having pb level talent DOES matter. It will certainly be a bit more enticing for a new coach. The cupboard is not bare.
Quote: Eh, these guys are just the latest part of the running joke that this franchise has become.
No arguments here. Will they ever get to the punchline so we can move on? Until that time, I can't help but enjoy watching this dark comedy, otherwise I might go mad if I took it seriously.
Marla Ridenour: Browns use Rob Chudzinski as scapegoat for their delusional, dysfunctional mess
PITTSBURGH: A year ago, the Browns failed to land big-name coaches they pursued like Chip Kelly, Jon Gruden and Nick Saban. Now they are under the delusion they can lure a franchise-changing leader after giving his predecessor less than 12 months to begin to turn things around. When the Browns relieved coach Rob Chudzinski of his duties Sunday night, it illustrated the height of their arrogance, the cartoonish level of their dysfunction. They actually believe there’s a future NFL coaching star out there who wants to work with an owner under federal investigation and a CEO and general manager who have yet to prove they know anything about talent evaluation.
It showed owner Jimmy Haslam learned nothing from his days as minority owner of the Steelers, who pride themselves on continuity. The Browns can’t find a quarterback, so they use their coach as a scapegoat instead.
If Paul Brown were alive, he’d want his name removed from the team he founded.
The next coach will be the fifth to hold the Browns’ job in a seven-year span. Chudzinski became the first one-and-done coach in Browns history. There had been five of those previously in the NFL in the last 10 years, according to the Elias Sports Bureau.
“If you’re intimately involved in the details of this thing, you see the progress we’re making. To start over again, it would be devastating, I think. You can’t always change head coaches, it doesn’t get it done,” Browns left tackle Joe Thomas said Sunday before he left Pittsburgh. “You look around the league, everyone’s searching for the instant answer,” Browns quarterback Jason Campbell said. “This isn’t something that just happens. It’s something you have to work at, something you have to build.
“If the quarterback or a coach doesn’t have instant results, you get rid of guys. Back in the day, guys like Troy Aikman and Peyton Manning, their first year in the league they were 1-15 or [3-13] and they turn out to be hall of fame quarterbacks. You can never base things off one play or one season because the first year’s the hardest year.”
But that’s what the Browns foolishly did.
With a 20-7 loss to the Steelers on Sunday at Heinz Field, the Browns (4-12) set a franchise record with their seventh consecutive defeat to end the season and dropped 10 of their last 11. It was a step back from 2012, when the Browns finished 5-11 and fired coach Pat Shurmur. If Haslam thinks he sent a message of accountability by firing Chudzinski, it’s coming with a side dish of hypocrisy. If that were so important, shouldn’t the Browns have dumped receivers Davone Bess and Greg Little during the season? Shouldn’t the front office be held responsible for a 2013 draft that failed to land any playmakers?
Tweets from Albert Breer from NFL.com and Ian Rapoport of NFL Network cited “effort and accountability issues” with Chudzinski’s players, criticism that surely came from the Browns’ front office. Thomas said he didn’t have a problem with Chudzinski in that regard. “Down 17-0, you saw great effort this week right to the end,” Thomas said. “I think there was great accountability. That was one thing that we’re built on.” A sore point with Haslam was the 24-13 loss to the New York Jets on Dec. 22, when he felt the Browns quit. While Chudzinski is certainly responsible for the Browns’ dizzying decline, dumping him after 16 games seems ridiculous. After Brian Hoyer suffered a torn anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee Oct. 3, Chudzinski had no starting-caliber quarterback. After Trent Richardson was traded Sept. 18, Chudzinski had no starting-caliber running back. Receiver Josh Gordon and tight end Jordan Cameron were the only legitimate pass catchers. After an offseason spent stocking the defense, the acquisitions underperformed.
Yet somehow this mess was all Chudzinski’s fault. Speculation about Chudzinski’s future first surfaced Friday in a column by Dan Pompei of Bleacher Report. On Sunday came a series of tweets from national NFL writers. Breer mentioned Penn State’s Bill O’Brien, a former New England Patriots offensive coordinator, and Patriots’ current offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels as top candidates.
That seemed to bear the fingerprints of Browns General Manager Mike Lombardi, convinced he can re-create the Patriot Way after working with Bill Belichick in Cleveland. But O’Brien may be bound for the Houston Texans, who hold the No. 1 pick and have a respected owner in Bob McNair. As recently as Nov. 13, CEO Joe Banner praised Chudzinski, saying, “I’m hard pressed to think that in nine weeks a first-time head coach can do any better or any more than he’s doing. I just think he’s doing an outstanding job.” When Haslam introduced Chudzinski on Jan. 11, Haslam said the Browns talked to nine or 10 of the best coaches in the country and “came back with the best person to lead the Cleveland Browns to the kind of winning format that we want to have.” He said those in the business regarded Chudzinski as “one of the brightest, if not the brightest young mind in the business.”
Yet Chudzinski received no support when it came to personnel moves and no patience from his bosses. Haslam, Banner and Lombardi believe they can do better. The only hope of that would be to make the next coach a quasi-GM, power that Banner and Lombardi would never cede, or dip into the college ranks. It will be a tough sell, even with two first-round draft choices next year and seven picks in the first four rounds. Few might considering dipping their toe in these waters of dysfunction, much less diving in.
Quote: I can't take credit for this line, but someone summed it up pretty good last night:
They gave Chud a type-writer and got po'd that he couldn't send an email with it.
Lol.......nice quote. I'm not a Chud lover at all, but what a load of crap to hire a guy one year ago, give him next to nothing to work with, while all the time telling him 2014 was the year to make the big push...........and then can him. We are about as classless an organization as there has ever been.
So, wonder what this does as far as resigning guys goes. If it's me, I have serious doubts I want to remain on this train.
At this point, short of hiring Cowher as HC, or some other huge name, I don't think I'll be renewing by NFL Ticket and just catch highlights, or hang with friends at the bar and see bits of games while watching a real team play on another TV.
The press conference coming up around 12:30 should be interesting. I want the media to really grill these guys. And I want to see Lombardi at the podium as well.
Rob Chudzinski firing infuriates many Cleveland Browns players
In a drastic move that virtually no one saw coming -- but which, in retrospect, seemed like a page out of the Factory of Sadness playbook -- the Cleveland Browns fired first-year coach Rob Chudzinski on Sunday night, hours after the completion of a season that was supposed to usher in a new era of patience and stability.
Yes, this was a shocker, the Browns' 4-12 record notwithstanding. The move incurred the ire of fans, numerous NFL coaches and executives (one NFC general manager called it "a shame for the NFL") alike. Browns players, especially, were quick to vent their frustration, with more than a half-dozen of them expressing their dismay over Chudzinski's firing and what it told them about the state of the long-struggling franchise.
"This organization is a joke," one Cleveland veteran told NFL.com. "I'm completely in the dark about this. Please (rip them). I feel for Chud. He was good to us."
Added another veteran: "We are so dysfunctional. These billionaires need to pick somebody and stay with them. These aren't girlfriends. You can't dump them if they (fail to please you) one time. Too many dominoes fall and (screw stuff) up when that happens. This is highly upsetting."
While Chudzinski had lost 10 of his last 11 games after a 3-2 start, players were quick to point out some of the mitigating factors. For one thing, despite the promising early season play of journeyman and Cleveland-area native Brian Hoyer, the Browns' quarterback situation was a volatile mess, with a prior regime's first-round draft pick (Brandon Weeden) and an inconsistent veteran (Jason Campbell) manning the position after Hoyer suffered a season-ending torn ACL.
The Browns also sent strong signals that they were ignoring short-term gratification in the name of building for the future, most notably trading starting running back Trent Richardson -- the third overall pick in the 2012 draft -- to the Indianapolis Colts for a 2014 first-round choice.
Throw in the strongly stated rhetoric voiced by the new regime, primarily owner Jimmy Haslam and CEO Joe Banner, about patience, stability and continuity, and Chudzinski's firing appeared unfair at best and hypocritical at worst.
"Tremendous mistake, just epic," one Cleveland player said. "It makes no sense. Everything we did this year was setting up the future -- trading draft picks, trading players for next year's picks, playing young guys toward the end of the year to see what they look like, sitting older guys at the end to get them healthy (Joe Haden, Phil Taylor, John Hughes) when they could have played.
"This is such a rash decision. They just (expletive) hired him last year! The whole year we were making all decisions for the future and now you're pissed the coach didn't win this year? What the (heck)? It was like a big experiment with players and scheme. I think it came from upstairs, and then they are surprised we didn't win more games? Yes, it's all about patience and then fire your coach Year 1. This blows."
Said another Browns player: "We had a disappointing season, but it wasn't like we invested heavy into this year anyways. Trading away our starting running back was not the way to win games today."
According to NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport, the team's brain trust -- Haslam, Banner and general manager Mike Lombardi -- felt that the Browns were not improving or responding to Chudzinski and his assistants (all of whom, curiously, were reportedly retained, at least in the short term). Further, according to Rapoport, when the front office recently shared its concerns with Chudzinski, he did not seem to believe that the team's problems were severe.
The front office also collectively felt that losing to a talent-deficient team like the Jaguars (32-28 on Dec. 1), and the lopsided nature of many of the defeats during the team's 0-7 stretch to end the season, were black marks against Chudzinski.
When these sentiments were relayed to one Browns veteran, he replied, "It's kinda weird that's what they think. I would tend to disagree. We lost the last couple of games by a wide margin because injuries to our best players built up. Before then, we had Chicago, New England and Jacksonville down in the fourth quarter."
Later, in response to a statement issued by the Browns in the official announcement of Chudzinski's firing, the veteran said, "Does this mean every year we are not 'consistently competitive' they will fire the coach? This is awful."
It's especially unnerving given the earlier preachings of Haslam, a former Pittsburgh Steelers minority owner who purchased the Browns from Randy Lerner in October of 2012, and Banner, the longtime Philadelphia Eagles president Haslam installed as his CEO. Even before blowing out the prior administration -- president Mike Holmgren, general manager Tom Heckert and coach Pat Shurmur -- Haslam spoke of stability and continuity as his guiding principles, saying he hoped to model the Browns after the Steelers.
Those tenets were often echoed by Banner, who became the public face of the franchise after Haslam's trucking company was embroiled in a federal investigation amid allegations of deliberately withheld rebates from customers.
Now, the "carousel" that Haslam and Banner were hoping to eradicate is back in play once again.
"Yeah, it's hard to say (Chudzinski) got a fair shake when usually it takes a few years to get things established and see dividends, especially with all the quarterback changes we had," another Browns player said. "There's a reason coaches typically get a few years before changes are made, right? The whole thing just seems odd."
Said yet another Cleveland player: "It's a crazy league, man. I didn't see it coming. There's just too much turnover in this organization ... always looking over your shoulder."
In fairness, while firing a coach after his first year is far from the norm, it is not unprecedented. Mike Mularkey was let go by the Jacksonville Jaguars after a single, 2-14 season in 2012, and the Oakland Raiders dumped Hue Jackson despite an 8-8 campaign in 2011, his first year as a head coach. The Seahawks deep-sixed Jimmy Mora following a 5-11 campaign in '09, and even Pete Carroll -- the man who replaced Mora in Seattle -- was a prior victim of the one-and-done stigma, losing his job after a 6-10 season with the New York Jets in 1994.
Banner's regime, however, was supposed to be different, especially considering his past: After Andy Reid went 5-11 in 1999, his first year as the Eagles' coach, Banner and Philly owner Jeffrey Lurie never flinched. Reid proceeded to win 11 games or more in each of his next five seasons -- and take Philadelphia to five NFC championship games and a Super Bowl over the next 13 campaigns.
All of this had Browns players and others in NFL circles theorizing that something "bizarre," as one AFC offensive coordinator put it, must have taken place to compel Chudzinski's dismissal. Said one Browns player: "I've gotta get to the bottom of this. Something big must have happened behind the scenes."
If nothing else, it made for an exceptionally surreal postgame scene following the Browns' 20-7 loss to the Steelers at Heinz Field on Sunday. Told of the reports that Chudzinski's firing was imminent about an hour after the game, one Browns player texted NFL.com, "I'm on the wrong bus (to the airport) and I'm very happy I don't have to sit on Bus 1 (with Chudzinski) in awkwardness."
Now, in the wake of this stunning move, he and his teammates are left to wonder if the wheels are coming off.
It's a valid question. Here are a dozen others in our perceived pecking order of the teams who've survived to compete for the Lombardi Trophy (yes, an abbreviated, playoff version of the 32 questions you typically find in this space):
1) Seattle Seahawks: Given that their prized offseason acquisition was restricted to a single game's worth of action in 2013 (and might be shelved for the playoffs), how extraordinary was the 'Hawks' 13-3 regular season?
2) Denver Broncos: Von who?
3) Carolina Panthers: Is it fair to say that Greg Hardy and his fellow pass rushers really wanted a week off?
4) San Francisco 49ers: Given that the Niners had already clinched a playoff berth, how impressive was Sunday's victory at Arizona -- and could this season become another memorable chapter in the franchise's special history book?
5) New England Patriots: Yo, Bill Belichick -- should we cue the violins, and how awesome is it to know everything about everything?
6) New Orleans Saints: When Drew Brees throws for 321 yards and four touchdowns by halftime in the regular-season finale, is it fair to say the Saints have a bit of momentum heading into the playoffs?
7) Cincinnati Bengals: Is Andy Dalton secretly a Ravens fan, and how many interceptions would it have taken for the defending Super Bowl champs to come up victorious in Sunday's must-win game?
8) Green Bay Packers: After saying "we can't count on (Aaron Rodgers) as the savior" before Sunday's game in Chicago, would linebacker A.J. Hawk like to reconsider his position?
9) Indianapolis Colts: What's more striking -- that Robert Mathis won the NFL sacks title at 32, or that he was the lone Pro Bowl selection for an 11-5 team?
10) Kansas City Chiefs: Who's more reviled in Western Pennsylvania right now -- Andy Reid, Ryan Succop or Bill Leavy?
11) Philadelphia Eagles: Even though Chip Kelly didn't fall for the banana-in-the-tailpipe trick, how fortunate was Philly to be facing the Cowboys' second-team quarterback in the final two minutes of Sunday night's NFC East decider?
12) San Diego Chargers: Did Keenan Allen really consider quitting after one NFL game? And if so, how grateful are the Chargers that he didn't follow through?
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I've seen nothing that illustrates the players' discontent with Chud and a mutiny was around the corner. Not saying that stuff isn't out there but everything I've seen/heard is the opposite.
I haven't heard many players really complaining about this firing. It's the same quotes over and over.
It's' not about the number of players complaining, it's who is complaining. Joe Thomas and DQ generally aren't complainers. So when they say something, it carries weight.
Probably not with the FO, but with the Fans it does.
Quote: There is no way that Haslem wasn't involved with this. Reports are he was furious with the team's play down the stretch and left early at the Pitt game. Furthermore, there is no way a FO fires a HC without the owner knowing beforehand.
I wish he had been oblivious to this because it would mean maybe he wasn't another goof owner, and maybe Banner/Lombardi would be next for pulling off an asinine move like that. However, neither are true and Haslem is an idiot.........as Diam says are only hope is Jimmy goes to prison and is forced to sell the team.
The firing of Chud came from the top down ... Haslam.
GMAFB ... really? We should just hire Peyton Manning instead.
Gase could take Sundays off and the Broncos wouldn't even notice.
A hire like that would be catastrophic, IMO.
Banner needs to stop trying to be smarter than everyone else by finding the next great thing that nobody thinks will be the next great thing and get someone in here with some credibility.
At this point, I would welcome Saban with open arms.
I haven't heard many players really complaining about this firing. It's the same quotes over and over.
It's' not about the number of players complaining, it's who is complaining. Joe Thomas and DQ generally aren't complainers. So when they say something, it carries weight.
Probably not with the FO, but with the Fans it does.
Not only that, but 1st year UDFA and other players who are not secure in their positions in the NFL aren't going to make a lot of noise, no matter what they may feel. They are in the NFL, collecting an NFL paycheck, and they aren't going to make a big fuss, no matter what happens.
The FO better have a really great plan here, ala the TR trade. Or we will continue being the perpetual laughing stock....flip coin now., heads they win, tails we loose.
Who listened to the presser? I am debating if I even want to listen to the crap that is/was being said. Is there anything, of logic and etc, worthwhile for me to waste my time listening to it? I'm not joking either, and there is no sarcasm in the above.
Banner just talked about teams making the playoffs last year that didn't the year before. My question is this ........ is he willing to put his job on the line if the Browns don't make the playoffs next season?
One of the vibes/jist I am getting is that Chud's inability to bench/release players like Little and etc is playing a decent role in the front office being displeased with him/the season. It makes sense. Teams bench players all the time who aren't doing anything to help the team win, except this one. Little wouldn't have lasted two games as a Cowboy, an Eagle or a Patriot playing like he did here. He's lasted "seasons" here though when people like Cooper likely, and I mean "likely" - would have been a better selection since day one.
Keeping Weeden in the top part of the QB carousel also had to make Chud look bad in terms of leadership and decision making. Especially when the players on the team, fans and etc were fully depleted with Brandon. Playing him ended up being toxic to the team and toxic to Cleveland.
Nice guys finish last Chud, sometimes being the "boss" means you need to crack the whip on some situations. Helping others cause you have some unexplainable "faith" or "trust" in them and their abilities to bounce back after crap games, didn't help yourself.
But really after reflecting and talking to a few people, not sure I am all that upset that Chud was canned. This team just needs to seize any and all hiring of coaches who have no coaching experience. It scares me and makes me sick to my stomach when I even CONTEMPLATE who's going to the next HC. How long is that dude going to last I wonder?
JC- Banner said that he didn't forsee anyone from last years coaching search being a candidate this year. That would seem to take O'Brien and McDaniel out of the picture.
It's going to get worse. Just wait until free agency kicks in. You'd have to be crazy to sign up for more time with this circus. Our FA players will be gone and we'll have to pay dearly for any we do get. And a QB would be stone cold insane to sign with the Browns, the graveyard of careers.
Maybe it'll get better in a few years. As it stands now money spent following the Browns is money wasted.
Yeah, like I said about Mack. What makes people think/fathom that Alex even wants to stay on this circus? Like I said, I bet he's already thrilled to see what teams offer him something, as he'd likely take less to not be a Brown anymore.
And really, I don't blame him or any player that feels that way. We'll go through half a thousand coaches and staff changes before this team has a break-even win/loss record....
The Best FA they had was Bryant. The rest were meh.. The Draft? Mingo pretty much disappeared this season and the rest of the draft were not to be seen at all. So what exactly did the Front Office improve on?
Instead of cutting Little or Weeden to send a message Chud should have benched/cut Bess, you know that stud WR that Banner and Lombardi brought in that leads the league in dropped passes.
I'm not even watching the presser ... just reading ... and I can't ever remember the combined arrogance of two individuals at any other time in Cleveland sports. Wow. Just wow.
He also said that they'd consider current coaching staff (well, he didn't answer the question as a no) - so is Norv Turner an option? Not sure I want that.
Unrelated, but the weasel said that he'd be open to having a coach have control over the roster? Ironic that was one of the reasons (supposedly) that Chud got fired. The man talks out of both sides of his mouth - despise him.
To underscore the incompetence of Banner/Haslam, they said they've never thought about including the GM in the presser?
I love that the reporters were being brutal, though I think overall they were too nice. Get a couple fans in there and it'd have been better...
Quote: Yeah, like I said about Mack. What makes people think/fathom that Alex even wants to stay on this circus? Like I said, I bet he's already thrilled to see what teams offer him something, as he'd likely take less to not be a Brown anymore.
And really, I don't blame him or any player that feels that way. We'll go through half a thousand coaches and staff changes before this team has a break-even win/loss record....
Mack was already gone.
But yeah, if there was even a 1% chance he was staying, that ship has sailed.
Quote: Yeah, like I said about Mack. What makes people think/fathom that Alex even wants to stay on this circus? Like I said, I bet he's already thrilled to see what teams offer him something, as he'd likely take less to not be a Brown anymore.
And really, I don't blame him or any player that feels that way. We'll go through half a thousand coaches and staff changes before this team has a break-even win/loss record....
They will probably Franchise Mack and then try to work on a long term deal.
Quote: I'm not even watching the presser ... just reading ... and I can't ever remember the combined arrogance of two individuals at any other time in Cleveland sports. Wow. Just wow.
I have no hope for the future.
They are getting destroyed in this presser with some of these questions.
Quote: Yeah, like I said about Mack. What makes people think/fathom that Alex even wants to stay on this circus? Like I said, I bet he's already thrilled to see what teams offer him something, as he'd likely take less to not be a Brown anymore.
And really, I don't blame him or any player that feels that way. We'll go through half a thousand coaches and staff changes before this team has a break-even win/loss record....
They will probably Franchise Mack and then try to work on a long term deal.
No way Mack signs a franchise tender. I wouldn't if I was him.
Quote: Yeah, like I said about Mack. What makes people think/fathom that Alex even wants to stay on this circus? Like I said, I bet he's already thrilled to see what teams offer him something, as he'd likely take less to not be a Brown anymore.
And really, I don't blame him or any player that feels that way. We'll go through half a thousand coaches and staff changes before this team has a break-even win/loss record....
They will probably Franchise Mack and then try to work on a long term deal.
No way Mack signs a franchise tender. I wouldn't if I was him.
If the Browns tag him what choice does he have. It will be just like Dawson. He will have to wait and get Tagged 2 years in a row and then he will be free because the Browns won't tag him 3 years in a row.
I don't mind arrogance in those running a sports organization, or in players .... because I think that you need a tittle arrogance in running a major company or organization.
That said, don't treat people like idiots. These guys strike me as the kind of people who not only think that they are the smartest in the room, but that everyone else should just accept it.
I cannot believe that only did half an hour. I cannot believe that they are still hiding Lombardi. I cannot believe that Banner says one thing and Haslam another.
This organization is in disarray. Maybe Chud was the lucky one.
If I were a reporter, I would have asked Haslam, "What happens if, with all of the cap space you have, and all of the draft picks you have, well, what happens if this team is an 11 or 12 loss team again next year? Does the new coach get fired? Does the GM? Does the Team President?"
Of course, he probably would have ducked that question with a half answer anyway.
Quote: He also said that they'd consider current coaching staff (well, he didn't answer the question as a no) - so is Norv Turner an option? Not sure I want that.
I took it more as it left open the door for them to quickly interview Horton to comply with the Rooney rule. Nobody from this current staff will be the HC next year.
Kudos to the media for asking tough questions. Banner and Haslem gave the same canned answers they gave after Shurmur was fired. "We know this is tough. We're confident we'll get this right. We are confident we can attract a top coaching candidate."
On a side note, Haslem looked like a panicked mess at the beginning of the presser. I thought his eyes were going to pop out of his head. Meanwhile, Banner thinks the FO put the team in a good situation. Oh the hilarity!
I wanted to stop listening when he said the team headed downhill. Yeah it was very disappointing season. I would have started with the special teams coach. But there WAS an obvious different feeling about this team. Chemistry wise it felt right. That alone was enough to give it another year IMO. If the guys who can jump ship do not do it. The next coach better make the playoffs. There will be no excuse not to.
But to say It was all on Chud that this team did not improve this season. It's outright BS!
Then just a few short minutes later say he does not want name names but a lot of players to be evaluated were injured. Hoyer, Groves, Benjamin, Bryant, Lewis,etc, etc. 3 rooks are on the IR. I had to stop listening.
Wonder why you saw a decline in the level of play?
If I were a reporter, I would have asked Haslam, "What happens if, with all of the cap space you have, and all of the draft picks you have, well, what happens if this team is an 11 or 12 loss team again next year? Does the new coach get fired? Does the GM? Does the Team President?"
Of course, he probably would have ducked that question with a half answer anyway.
I was amused that he got annoyed at the end of the presser and just basically said... ok we are done got up and walked out.
Mack will get tagged if we have a brain at all. I don't think Ward will be back, and to be honest I don't care. The problem is going to be attracting guys to come to this mess. We will have to MASSIVELY over pay people to get them to come here.
Quote: Yeah, like I said about Mack. What makes people think/fathom that Alex even wants to stay on this circus? Like I said, I bet he's already thrilled to see what teams offer him something, as he'd likely take less to not be a Brown anymore.
And really, I don't blame him or any player that feels that way. We'll go through half a thousand coaches and staff changes before this team has a break-even win/loss record....
They will probably Franchise Mack and then try to work on a long term deal.
No way Mack signs a franchise tender. I wouldn't if I was him.
Either make $11m guaranteed or sit out for free to make a point LOL... yeah, I think you would sign it. Then again, I don't think he will even get tagged so it's a moot point.
I used to marvel at how two guys could watch a football game,one for the home team the other for the visitors,and see two entirely different games. Reading what you guys heard during the presser,amazes me even more.Hell,I thought I was paying attention,didn't hear nor see half the things you guys did. When asked why Lombardi wasn't ever at these pressers,he answered;never really thought about it. If these guys are as good at running an org.as they are at pressers,we should be in good hands.
New Brown's motto; We will have continuity,until you . me off.
Quote: Yeah, like I said about Mack. What makes people think/fathom that Alex even wants to stay on this circus? Like I said, I bet he's already thrilled to see what teams offer him something, as he'd likely take less to not be a Brown anymore.
And really, I don't blame him or any player that feels that way. We'll go through half a thousand coaches and staff changes before this team has a break-even win/loss record....
They will probably Franchise Mack and then try to work on a long term deal.
No way Mack signs a franchise tender. I wouldn't if I was him.
If the Browns tag him what choice does he have. It will be just like Dawson. He will have to wait and get Tagged 2 years in a row and then he will be free because the Browns won't tag him 3 years in a row.
He holds out and forces them to rescind the tag. Why wouldn't he? Why on earth would he want to play for this team?
Quote: Who is the reporter reading the Facebook posts?
Dan DeRoos from Chanel 19. That was priceless. Haslem looked visibly pissed for a moment when he was asking his thoughts on fans perception that this organization is a complete embarrassment to the city and NFL. Additionally, how the fans would like Haslem, Banner and Lombardi to pack their bags and get out of town.
J/C Sooo....... Haslem says that he talked to a lot of people around the NFL and they told him that he has a "great" franchise here, not "good", but "great." Do you think any of those people told him that firing a first year head coach and then dodging every real question would help in continuing to build it?
I agree with YTown. They both seemed like they were the smartest people in the room and that everyone should just accept that.
And, if Lombardi is not so good with the media, how did he end up on TV?
This whole thing stinks to high heaven. There had to be more to this debacle than any of them are letting on.....
Quote: Yeah, like I said about Mack. What makes people think/fathom that Alex even wants to stay on this circus? Like I said, I bet he's already thrilled to see what teams offer him something, as he'd likely take less to not be a Brown anymore.
And really, I don't blame him or any player that feels that way. We'll go through half a thousand coaches and staff changes before this team has a break-even win/loss record....
They will probably Franchise Mack and then try to work on a long term deal.
No way Mack signs a franchise tender. I wouldn't if I was him.
If the Browns tag him what choice does he have. It will be just like Dawson. He will have to wait and get Tagged 2 years in a row and then he will be free because the Browns won't tag him 3 years in a row.
He holds out and forces them to rescind the tag. Why wouldn't he? Why on earth would he want to play for this team?
Why would the team be forced to rescind the tag?
And if he were smart, he wouldn't because of the whole losing $700,000 game checks thing.
Haslem may be the first guy I've ever seen who has tried to assume that role.
But, did he succeed?
My take is a little different, now, than it was last night. College and Pro coaches get paid, get paid literally millions of dollars with the understanding that being unceremonisly dismissed is a part of it. Its a part of the game. Its an understood reality. Chud is a millionaire, please don't worry about him. He's OK
Banner is somewhat of a money guy/ruthless business manager, type of guy.
From what I saw today, the Brown's need Haslem to lead. Banner, Lombardi, are not going to lead those players, those coaches, the office staff, etc... Haslem's presence is needed, whether we like it or not.
NFL Network gossip columnists are ranting and raving. Well, they have no experience in this situation. Who cares what a sports journalist's opinion is when he knows little about what he is talking about.
Bottom Line:
Can Chud win us a Super Bowl?
If the answer isn't an immediate YES, then we have to move on.
- am more depressed now than I was before .. I just clicked on U but u are right about there ARROGANCE .... they just sit there and say what they want no matter how CONTRADICTORY it is ..
one of the posters said Banner would say one thing and then haslam another .... well Banner said one thing and 2 minutes later he himself was saying the exact opposite ....
like when he said chud was let go for lack of improvement over the course of the year ... then 5 minutes later said he thought they did a good job in bringing in FA's and draft picks and said we didn't see how good they would be cause of all the injuries to said FA's and draft picks .. *LOL* ... how stupid do u think I am ...
the contradictions pretty much continued through the entire presser .. THESE TWO ARE A FRICIN JOKE!!!
Jimmy saying we'd know in 6 months to a year how the new hire is working out SCARES THE CRAP OUT OF ME .... u can't make evaluations on NEW HEAD COACHES that quick ... and that means this DUDE DON'T GET IT ...
I also loved it when Banner justified this move by saying he had a long history with one coach so this isn't his style ... ya ... that coach ended up being the reason U resigned cause Banner lost the power struggle .... I wonder if Banner was in control like he is here how long Reid would have lasted ....
Jimmy u talk about what we deserve ... well all you've done so far for me is TAKE AWAY MY HOPE ... and Hope is what keeps us going on a daily basis ... so thanks for that ...
and I could care less how hard U or anyone else works in this org. ... and I could care less how much U understand what we deserve ....... GET SOME F'N FOOTBALL PEOPLE AND LET THEM DO THERE JOBS ....
seeing as how it appears your not going to jail (I wonder how much that cost him ... paying off the federal gov't isn't cheap ... ) ... and the NFL won't step in ... U need to LEARN THAT FAST cause until U do we REAL FANS are SCREWED ....
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Former Browns coach Rob Chudzinski says he was shocked by his firing.
Chudzinski released a statement through the team, saying,
“I was shocked and disappointed to hear the news that I was fired. I am a Cleveland Brown to the core, and always will be. It was an honor to lead our players and coaches, and I appreciate their dedication and sacrifice. I was more excited than ever for this team, as I know we were building a great foundation for future success. While clearly I would have liked to see the long-term vision through to the end, I am very grateful to Jimmy Haslam and the Haslam family for letting me live my dream.”
Chudzinski went 4-12 in his only season at the helm. The team has scheduled a 12:30 p.m. press conference to explain the rationale behind firing Chudzinski.
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Former Browns coach Rob Chudzinski says he was shocked by his firing.
Chudzinski released a statement through the team, saying,
“I was shocked and disappointed to hear the news that I was fired. I am a Cleveland Brown to the core, and always will be. It was an honor to lead our players and coaches, and I appreciate their dedication and sacrifice. I was more excited than ever for this team, as I know we were building a great foundation for future success. While clearly I would have liked to see the long-term vision through to the end, I am very grateful to Jimmy Haslam and the Haslam family for letting me live my dream.”
Chudzinski went 4-12 in his only season at the helm. The team has scheduled a 12:30 p.m. press conference to explain the rationale behind firing Chudzinski.
that is a classy guy, cause lets be honest here:
if it was any one of us in that situation, i would've aired out ALL the dirty laundry, i would've said so many things about what really happened, there be pitchforks and torches out there in berea right NOW.
Quote: Jimmy saying we'd know in 6 months to a year how the new hire is working out SCARES THE CRAP OUT OF ME .... u can't make evaluations on NEW HEAD COACHES that quick ... and that means this DUDE DON'T GET IT ...
Yet they still think that top coaches will still see this as a great opportunity.
Well Chud at least doesn't have to say anymore "we are disappointed in how the game turned out... blah blah blah. We're already excited to be moving onto the next opponent... blah blah blah. The players are focused and putting in good weeks of practice blah blah blah" anymore.
Quote: Can you, or someone else help me in terms of Franchising...
When a team delivers up the franchise tag, I get that it's an average, 1 year deal of the top five I think players at the associated position.
Does the player have right to refuse the tag?
Yes. The player can choose to not sign the Franchise tender, but they would have to sit out the year, I believe. In doing so, the team would lose their Franchise tag for that year or something like that.
In short, I don't remember the details too well, but the player can refuse to sign it.
Haslem is the biggest problem the organization has. Banner and Lombardi can be fired, but as we learned with Lerner, if the same lunatic is hiring more lunatics your going to be crazy...lol. I can't quit them bro....tried a few years back after the whole Holmgren keeping Mangini thing. I just have to pray that either Haslem figures it out (not hopeful at all), he goes to prison (not much hope there either), or figure he will most likely die before I do and wait him out.
No he does not. He can either accept the tag or sit out and not earn money. Under the new CBA an organization can tag a guy for 2 years in a row...........after that he is a UFA. So to answer the real question, if the Browns want Mack back he will be back.
Quote: Can you, or someone else help me in terms of Franchising...
When a team delivers up the franchise tag, I get that it's an average, 1 year deal of the top five I think players at the associated position.
Does the player have right to refuse the tag?
The player can refuse the tag .... he just can't play until he either signs it, or accepts a long term contract from the team, or signs with someone else and the team refuses to match and takes his new team's next 2 1st round draft picks, or the team decides to take back the tag designation.
For tag purposes, the offensive line is treated as a single position. Obviously the top 5 contacts on the offensive line are all LTs, but a Center would still get that level of contract under the franchise tag.
For tag purposes, the offensive line is treated as a single position. Obviously the top 5 contacts on the offensive line are all LTs, but a Center would still get that level of contract under the franchise tag.
Which, for last year, was $9,828,000. I would expect this year's to be higher.
That would be a healthy paycheck for Mack, and one extremely large cap hit for the team.
Is it weird that I feel a little better about this firing after listening to them? I mean, I think they are the most stupidly, arrogant guys EVER but they went with their gut and moved on. If they felt they'd be in the same place again next year, why not cut ties now? No, it's not fair and I don't like seeing Chud go. We'll never know how it could have turned out for him.
Regardless of who the next coach is, it's all about continuing to add talent and that's what scares me the most with Banner and Lombardi-- not this head coach situation as much.
Also this hasn't been sitting well around the league either. Wonder what potential FA players are thinking as well as guys like Mack and Ward....
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Former Browns coach Rob Chudzinski says he was shocked by his firing.
Chudzinski released a statement through the team, saying,
“I was shocked and disappointed to hear the news that I was fired. I am a Cleveland Brown to the core, and always will be. It was an honor to lead our players and coaches, and I appreciate their dedication and sacrifice. I was more excited than ever for this team, as I know we were building a great foundation for future success. While clearly I would have liked to see the long-term vision through to the end, I am very grateful to Jimmy Haslam and the Haslam family for letting me live my dream.”
Chudzinski went 4-12 in his only season at the helm. The team has scheduled a 12:30 p.m. press conference to explain the rationale behind firing Chudzinski.
that is a classy guy, cause lets be honest here:
if it was any one of us in that situation, i would've aired out ALL the dirty laundry, i would've said so many things about what really happened, there be pitchforks and torches out there in berea right NOW.
He is going to get paid head coach money for 2-3 more years to not be a head coach. Doing what you suggest puts that money in serious jeopardy, which is why that pretty much never happens.
I have to give the Cleveland media some props for really grilling Haslam and Banner; the facebook comments and asking why Lombardi wasn't there were priceless. Of course, we had one certain reporter ask questions that had been answered about 5 times already.
Still, I would loved someone to ask more follow-up questions, like, "When evaluating Chud's performance, what things do you think he could have done differently to help his team show improvement at the end of the season?" I would have loved to see Banner answer that.
If you actually trust those guys to do their job, then THAT would be weird. What I see is a collection of Stooges (a nickname I finally like) who let their egos get in the way.
Quote: Wonder what potential FA players are thinking as well as guys like Mack and Ward....
I would expect all of our current guys to warn other players about coming here. I expect our own free agents to want to leave. I would think that the only free agents that will come here will be the ones we grossly overpay for and those that can't get a better offer (or any offer) elsewhere.
We will have to overpay any FA who wants to come here by a good penny. However, I don't know if that really is that much different than it was before now. The team has sucked for nearly two decades, and your not going to get a quality FA to come here for similar money he can get from a proven organization........winning matters to these guys, but not as much as money.
If the Browns want to keep Mack/Ward or sign any FA they can, but they are going to pay handsomely for it, and way above market value. This is pretty much status quo for FAs, but it definitely does hurt us having to potentially over pay for own guys like Mack and Ward.
You have to remember, though, that it's not a matter of him saying "I refuse to sign it" and then just being out for the year. He simply just does not sign the tender, but he is free to do so at any time as long as it's not rescinded by the team. So, he could sit out the entire offseason, preseason, etc, and on the Saturday before opening day choose to sign it and immediately be guaranteed his entire salary (and the team would have to accordingly make ay necessary moves to comply with the salary cap, should they then be in violation). He could even decide to wait as far into the season as week 10 to sign it and be guaranteed his (what I believe would be prorated at this point) salary.
Yet they still think that top coaches will still see this as a great opportunity.
Well they may not have a problem getting a coach ... they covered there asses with the 10.5 million payout to chud ...
If I'm a candidate here's how I look at it ...
- they have a ton of young talent ... - tons of room under the cap ... - a ton of draft picks and HIGH DRAFT PICKS .. including two 1st rounders ....
so its a very very attractive job from that aspect .... now the down side is Chud getting canned after a year ... BUT if that happens I'm going to walk away a VERY VERY RICH MAN ...
PLUS .... this is like declaring bankruptcy ... U can only do it once every 7 years (at least that's what it used to be) ... so creditors are actually fairly willing to loan folks who just declared bankruptcy money cause that fear is eliminated ...
Well I would imagine that theres no way the 3 stooges are going to fire a first year coach two years in a row ...
Naaa ... it prolly won't hinder us in the coaching search ... retaining and getting FA's .. that may be another story ...
the three stooges have a shot at coming out of this smelling like a rose ... we do have lots og good young talent .. we have lots of good picks and a ton of room under the cap .. so if they GET LUCKY and use the picks and money correctly we should be a pretty good in a few years .... so they can say ...
SEE WE KNEW WHAT WE WERE DOING .... when in reality ... U have the opportunity to SHINE DESPITE YOURSELVES ....
Quote: You have to remember, though, that it's not a matter of him saying "I refuse to sign it" and then just being out for the year. He simply just does not sign the tender, but he is free to do so at any time as long as it's not rescinded by the team. So, he could sit out the entire offseason, preseason, etc, and on the Saturday before opening day choose to sign it and immediately be guaranteed his entire salary (and the team would have to accordingly make ay necessary moves to comply with the salary cap, should they then be in violation). He could even decide to wait as far into the season as week 10 to sign it and be guaranteed his (what I believe would be prorated at this point) salary.
He could do that. It puts both parties in bad spots. It's bad for Mack because that close to the season, all the big free agent money has dried up, but my thoughts are that if you tag someone, you don't let them bully you around. That's a great way to set future players up to do the same thing in the future. Hold your ground sort of thing.
And if signing right before the start of the season affects his on-field play, that ultimately hurts his free agent haul the next year.
There is always talk about players holding out for several weeks into the season but in reality it never happens. It's too expensive.
Haslem is the biggest problem the organization has. Banner and Lombardi can be fired, but as we learned with Lerner, if the same lunatic is hiring more lunatics your going to be crazy...lol. I can't quit them bro....tried a few years back after the whole Holmgren keeping Mangini thing. I just have to pray that either Haslem figures it out (not hopeful at all), he goes to prison (not much hope there either), or figure he will most likely die before I do and wait him out.
Here's to your health Jimmy....
Not quittin bro ... just gonna be a lot less interested until these pieces of crap are gone ... THERE NOT GOOD PEOPLE BRO ... and I'm not a big fan of that ...
just curious ....
why do u think chud was a failure this year? ...
why u so high on O'Brien ... what impresses u about him ...
if u don't want the dolts to be involved send me a PM ...
didn't they suggest that they have been in talks with other potential coaches? it made it seem like they have been looking before they decided to fire Chud.
Quote: You have to remember, though, that it's not a matter of him saying "I refuse to sign it" and then just being out for the year. He simply just does not sign the tender, but he is free to do so at any time as long as it's not rescinded by the team. So, he could sit out the entire offseason, preseason, etc, and on the Saturday before opening day choose to sign it and immediately be guaranteed his entire salary (and the team would have to accordingly make ay necessary moves to comply with the salary cap, should they then be in violation). He could even decide to wait as far into the season as week 10 to sign it and be guaranteed his (what I believe would be prorated at this point) salary.
He could do that. It puts both parties in bad spots. It's bad for Mack because that close to the season, all the big free agent money has dried up, but my thoughts are that if you tag someone, you don't let them bully you around. That's a great way to set future players up to do the same thing in the future. Hold your ground sort of thing.
And if signing right before the start of the season affects his on-field play, that ultimately hurts his free agent haul the next year.
There is always talk about players holding out for several weeks into the season but in reality it never happens. It's too expensive.
This is true, but it cuts both ways. Refusing to deal with a player who makes it clear that he has no desire to play for your franchise in order to win a peeing contest is a very bad look for a front office. Beyond that, I don't think that our FO in particular wants to waste their time dealing with such a person.
But I do believe that it's a moot point as you said, because I don't expect him to be tagged in the first place.
Quote: I have to give the Cleveland media some props for really grilling Haslam and Banner; the facebook comments and asking why Lombardi wasn't there were priceless. Of course, we had one certain reporter ask questions that had been answered about 5 times already.
Still, I would loved someone to ask more follow-up questions, like, "When evaluating Chud's performance, what things do you think he could have done differently to help his team show improvement at the end of the season?" I would have loved to see Banner answer that.
The facebook question dude is a GENIUS ... he got to ask a brutally tough question and not take the flak for it .... using a facebook comment to ask a brutal question is BRILLIANT ... *L* ...
that was the one question I wanted asked ... actually theres two .... and I missed the beginning of the presser so maybe #2 was asked ...
#1 - what was the EXACT process/matrix U used to track the progress of the teams improvement ... WHAT WENT INTO THAT .... I was dying for someone to ask that question ....
#2 - chud was fired cause he couldn't do the job ... why did banner and/or Lombardi survive since I would ASSume one of the biggest parts of there job is too bring in a HC ... IF CHUD WAS SO BAD HE HAD TO BE FIRED AFTER YEAR 1 HOW DID THE PERSON/PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS HIRE AVOID BLAME??? .... I wonder if that was asked if he would broke out the DOUBLE SECRET PROBATION card .... *L* ...
#2 was sort of asked, I think. I can't remember exactly how it was phrased, but I believe it was something to the effect of what happens and who's responsible if the next guy they hire to be HC fails as well.
Quote: You have to remember, though, that it's not a matter of him saying "I refuse to sign it" and then just being out for the year. He simply just does not sign the tender, but he is free to do so at any time as long as it's not rescinded by the team. So, he could sit out the entire offseason, preseason, etc, and on the Saturday before opening day choose to sign it and immediately be guaranteed his entire salary (and the team would have to accordingly make ay necessary moves to comply with the salary cap, should they then be in violation). He could even decide to wait as far into the season as week 10 to sign it and be guaranteed his (what I believe would be prorated at this point) salary.
He could do that. It puts both parties in bad spots. It's bad for Mack because that close to the season, all the big free agent money has dried up, but my thoughts are that if you tag someone, you don't let them bully you around. That's a great way to set future players up to do the same thing in the future. Hold your ground sort of thing.
And if signing right before the start of the season affects his on-field play, that ultimately hurts his free agent haul the next year.
There is always talk about players holding out for several weeks into the season but in reality it never happens. It's too expensive.
This is true, but it cuts both ways. Refusing to deal with a player who makes it clear that he has no desire to play for your franchise in order to win a peeing contest is a very bad look for a front office. Beyond that, I don't think that our FO in particular wants to waste their time dealing with such a person.
But I do believe that it's a moot point as you said, because I don't expect him to be tagged in the first place.
Yeah, the way the franchise amount is calculated makes it really unlikely that a center will get tagged. I don't know what the exact amount is but I saw $11million thrown around before and it will probably come out somewhat close to that.
Under prior labor deals, the non-exclusive franchise tag was determined by calculating the average of the five highest-paid players at each position from the prior year. Under the 2011 CBA, the franchise tenders come from a more complex procedure.
Under Article 10, Section 2 of the CBA, the number is based on the five-year average cap percentage for the tag at each position.
So it’s no longer driven by what players at the same position made in the prior season, but by the average cap percentage consumed by the franchise tender over five years. Then, that percentage will be applied to the 2013 salary cap to determine the franchise tender at each position.
Already confused? We’ve got nine more.
Another interesting one that I didn't know about...
Quote: 5. Franchise tender is guaranteed, with one exception.
Once a player signs the franchise tag, the one-year salary becomes fully guaranteed. But there’s a little-known exception.
Under Article 10, Section 2(c) of the CBA, the contract can be terminated if the player fails “to establish or maintain his excellent physical condition.”
Any effort to do so would result in a review of the situation by a neutral physician and, eventually and inevitably, arbitration. Still, the franchise tender technically isn’t fully and completely guaranteed.
Does everyone still think all of this talk about "continuity" rings true?
Does everyone still believe the BS PR line this FO said about it was they who decided against Kelly? Or are you ready to finally accept the truth that Kelly stood them up and bolted to Philly?
Do people really believe that without a QB or a running game that Chud actually got a fair shot?
Are people still so excited about the idea of "an involved owner"?
Sounds to me like a suave marketing guy sold this fan base a pigs ear claiming it was prime rib and many fans bought into it.
I'm sure we'll keep hearing more excuses from some. More rationalizations as to why most of the things we were told are being kicked to the curb.
I'm also very sure that when we do get a qB and a running game, whoever the coach is then will win more games and the team will look much better.
I'm also sure that this FO will try to use that as a way of trying to claim how right they were to fire Chud.
I gotta admit, Pit, I tried my best to be optimistic. This past year, when the FO did something goofy or some story came out painting them in a bad light, I dismissed it. I said "no, this can't be true, this FO is good."
Well, as it stands right now, I'm a moron.
Who's the fool, the fool? Or the fool who follows him?
Does everyone still think all of this talk about "continuity" rings true?
Does everyone still believe the BS PR line this FO said about it was they who decided against Kelly? Or are you ready to finally accept the truth that Kelly stood them up and bolted to Philly?
Do people really believe that without a QB or a running game that Chud actually got a fair shot?
Are people still so excited about the idea of "an involved owner"?
Sounds to me like a suave marketing guy sold this fan base a pigs ear claiming it was prime rib and many fans bought into it.
I'm sure we'll keep hearing more excuses from some. More rationalizations as to why most of the things we were told are being kicked to the curb.
I'm also very sure that when we do get a qB and a running game, whoever the coach is then will win more games and the team will look much better.
I'm also sure that this FO will try to use that as a way of trying to claim how right they were to fire Chud.
Will this fan base also buy that line of BS?
- I think their credibility on the continuity thing takes a hit. There's no way around that. I always say that continuity is great but you have to have the right people. Continuity with bad people leads to Matt Millen and 0-16. That being said, I don't think Chud got a fair chance. He's well respected and I thought was a good coach. Clearly ownership and the FO see it differently.
- Not sure what happened with Kelly. He was the guy I wanted all along but it obviously didn't work out. A lot of what you are suggesting might be semantics, e.g. maybe the Browns really did walk away but only after some ridiculous demands by Kelly that were never reasonably going to be met. Who knows.
- I don't think Chud got a fair shot with the team. I wouldn't go so far as to say he was done dirty, assuming they pay the man what was agreed upon in the contract. It's not like he's going hungry.
- re: involved owner I don't want an absentee owner like Randy Lerner, and I also don't want a guy intimitely involved in football decisions like Jerry Jones. Not sure where Haslem falls in that (he was away this season a lot due to Pilot mess) but he seems to be pretty involved.
All in all I'm a little disappointed but probably am not going as far as a lot of posters are. I don't agree with the move but sometimes people just need to chill a bit and post more on logic than on emotion (not talking about you at all, just a general thought.)
edit: one more thing that I was going to post in the press conference thread that seems to be gone now, I couldn't help but read that Haslem had a lot more to say. His body language and facial expressions screamed it. Unfortunately as fans we just get the dumbed down, politically correct answers but I can pretty much guarantee that there was more going on than just the team backsliding. Just my opinion of course.
Quote: All in all I'm a little disappointed but probably am not going as far as a lot of posters are. I don't agree with the move but sometimes people just need to chill a bit and post more on logic than on emotion (not talking about you at all, just a general thought.)
Yeah, all this drama is nauseating.
The hypocritical picking and choosing of things is also upsetting.
My fear is with possibly losing two FA's of our own, both demanding a sizable raise in pay, combined with Cleveland being so unstable that no real talented FA would want to come here, were going to end up having to pay out a lot of money for second teir FA's just to comply with the salary cap. Awesome.
That's a possibility. However, we do have a good situation here in that we do have a lot of money to offer and we have a ton of draft picks, including two in the first round.
If we bring in the right coach and sell the point that we are going to pair him w/the right QB, we might not be as undesirable as most people on here are making us out to be.
I am not saying this is a given, but hey......it's a possibility.
Alright, now that I've gotten my greasy cheeseburger eaten I'm ready retort...lol.
why do u think chud was a failure this year? ...
Failure is a tough word, and I hope I didn't make that strong a statement....not saying I didn't come across that way just not what I intended. What I was trying to say is that there was some merit to what was being reported about this team regressing. We were 3-2 and then proceeded to lose 10 out of the next 11 games........including the likes of the Jags and Jets. I also felt that there was some merit to the comments that Vers made about guys quitting. Look at the Jags bro, that team was 0-8 and left for dead, but they got better and finished 4-4......they never quit on their HC (to his credit). We are more talented than the Jags, but consistently found new and exciting ways to lose games. For all the crap Ryan takes for the Jets, that guys get's the most out of that crap roster he has...kudos to him. We also held the lead in countless games in the 1st half only to get our butt handed to us in the 2nd half.........depth?? maybe, but it happened in the 1st few games to before the injuries mounted.
I hate the move in firing Chud, because he wasn't given a fair shot AT ALL. In my opinion however, there were some warning signs that gave me pause as to whether he was the long term answer. I guess I just wasn't as high on him to begin with as some of you were, and didn't see anything over the course of the season to change my mind........as a matter of fact I saw some things that gave me real pause.
My problem with the firing is he was never a chance to correct his deficiencies and grow as a HC.........and most importantly if he is this bad that he needs fired after 1 year then why did the stooges hire him to begin with???.........where's the accountability for that crap.
why u so high on O'Brien ... what impresses u about him ...
To put it plainly, the guy inherited a dumpster fire at PSU, and has lead that team through it's darkest points........and was still able to sell it to kids who were good enough to go to tOSU, Bama, scUM, ND, etc. That shows me an impressive leader, and a guy people want to believe in. This organization is a dumpster fire, and we need someone like that who can as Vers put it "change the culture".............dude is a winner and we need that. I can give you a bunch more examples as far as the way he setup Hackenburgh for success this year with both subtle and creative play caling, and some other stuff . The main reason is I think the guy has shown he can take a situation that is totally dysfunctional, and not only embrace it, but have other people with options to buy in with him........impressive and we need someone like that.
Having said that, Rapaport just reported that stooges have no interest in him.......go figure...lol. We will end up with the Donks OC or Mcdaniels, and both will probably be utter failures.
Playing the entire season looking over your shoulder is not a good situation regardless of what assets you may have in your favor, and the FO has set the precedent that any HC here will be coaching the season here while looking over his shoulder.
Quote: Playing the entire season looking over your shoulder is not a good situation regardless of what assets you may have in your favor, and the FO has set the precedent that any HC here will be coaching the season here while looking over his shoulder.
Just to play devil's advocate a little ... but 4-12 is really, really bad. I mean just awful. If a coach with average competence comes in here, he should be able to get this team to 8-8 as it is currently constructed. A coach that can do that won't need to look over his shoulder.
I think Banner and Haslam are slimy. I think they did Chud wrong. But let's not forget that Chud did himself no favors here at all. The reports are mixed ... some players liked him, some didn't. I think players like Thomas and DQ are more in favor of continuity than Chud specifically.
I think one of the things that happened is Chud believed he was getting another year regardless of the record. Unfortunately, he kind of coached that way and his players played that way. Maybe he's just not a good leader of men or maybe he is and he just needed more time. Any way you slice it, 4-12 is epically bad. I think people keep losing sight of that.
Again, I think he should have gotten another year. I feel for the guy. Although I've been critical of him, my stomach turned when I heard of the news. But Chud did himself no favors. And the players did Chud no favors. Just an average record and we aren't even having this conversation.
Now the reports regarding the FO interference with coaching decisions does concern me ... but again, Chud said 'don't tell me what to do ... I'll figure it out' ... and he figured it out to the tune of 4-12.
Plus, I believe there is a whole slew of stuff behind the scenes that no one knows about. But I do think Haslam and Banner are slimy. Banner keeps taking credit for all of Philly's success as if no one else was involved.
Sometimes it seems like the NFL wants us to lose ... putting Haslam and Banner together has been just awful so far. Somewhere Goodell is laughing over his evil genius plan to get the Browns to LA or London or Tibuktu.
edit: one more thing that I was going to post in the press conference thread that seems to be gone now, I couldn't help but read that Haslem had a lot more to say. His body language and facial expressions screamed it. Unfortunately as fans we just get the dumbed down, politically correct answers but I can pretty much guarantee that there was more going on than just the team backsliding. Just my opinion of course.
Wow-i just watched the presser, you are so right, Haslem was bursting at the seams. My guess is that he is not used to being questioned like this. The questions were pretty pointed-as they should be.
What don't you like about Adam Gase? I heard that he was the guy that Manning wanted to replace McCoy.
Earlier, on NFL Network, they said he coached under Martz. Martz happened to be on and he spoke of Gase. He mentioned how bright he was and how the players loved him. He said it was apparent early on that this guy had a future as a HC.
Which means we probably won't get him.
I just find it kinda weird that so many people who were bad-mouthing our coaching these last several weeks are not chewing their limbs off because we lost Chud. The guy won 4 games w/a team that had more talent than last year's team and we were all down [except Spirit and 32] on Shurmur. It almost like some of these guys are enjoying this opportunity to rag on the FO. That's pretty weird.
My biggest disappointment is that the owner promised us continuity. I loved that he said that. I was of the strong opinion that the constant changes under Junior is what held the franchise back. So, I bought in w/the new owner. Less than a year later, he fires the head coach. That's disappointing.
I think someone posted on here that the last 4 coaches to be fired in the AFC North have all been Cleveland Brown's coaches. That's freaking incredible.
I am not giving up on these guys yet because I don't think there is anyway they can be worse than the previous regime, but their credibility just took a huge hit w/me. And if they draft Carr w/the 4th overall pick, I will be livid.
Boy, as the question was being asked, I thought Haslam was going to jump across the desk and choke someone. Someone said he doesn't have a good poker face ... spot on.
But man he handled that question beautifully after it was read. Smooth politician.
Quote: Playing the entire season looking over your shoulder is not a good situation regardless of what assets you may have in your favor, and the FO has set the precedent that any HC here will be coaching the season here while looking over his shoulder.
Just to play devil's advocate a little ... but 4-12 is really, really bad. I mean just awful. If a coach with average competence comes in here, he should be able to get this team to 8-8 as it is currently constructed. A coach that can do that won't need to look over his shoulder.
Yes but with the QB situation we had, i think we were lucky to win 4, dont you think? 2-14 could been more likely. QB is so important in the NFL. Good thing we had a running game. Oh, thats right we didnt...
Not saying Chud was the answer, but i dont think any coach in the NFL could have taken us to 8-8 with no decent QB and no featured RB!
Quote: What don't you like about Adam Gase? I heard that he was the guy that Manning wanted to replace McCoy.
Earlier, on NFL Network, they said he coached under Martz. Martz happened to be on and he spoke of Gase. He mentioned how bright he was and how the players loved him. He said it was apparent early on that this guy had a future as a HC.
Which means we probably won't get him.
I just find it kinda weird that so many people who were bad-mouthing our coaching these last several weeks are not chewing their limbs off because we lost Chud. The guy won 4 games w/a team that had more talent than last year's team and we were all down [except Spirit and 32] on Shurmur. It almost like some of these guys are enjoying this opportunity to rag on the FO. That's pretty weird.
My biggest disappointment is that the owner promised us continuity. I loved that he said that. I was of the strong opinion that the constant changes under Junior is what held the franchise back. So, I bought in w/the new owner. Less than a year later, he fires the head coach. That's disappointing.
I think someone posted on here that the last 4 coaches to be fired in the AFC North have all been Cleveland Brown's coaches. That's freaking incredible.
I am not giving up on these guys yet because I don't think there is anyway they can be worse than the previous regime, but their credibility just took a huge hit w/me. And if they draft Carr w/the 4th overall pick, I will be livid.
Gase scares me because Manning makes every OC he plays with look like a genius. Heck he audibles out of over half the play calls...lol. So who knows. My biggest beef is I am sick of the inexperienced OJT coaches we have seen in Cleveland.......and I also want a strong leader. Maybe Gase is that guy, but I don't know and I have ZERO faith in Browns FOs in general of doing the right thing.
BTW........rumor is the Browns FO loves Manziel. Someone posted it on another thread, and I've heard some other reports linking our interest in him. Yep we need that guy throwing the football in Cleveland with 30 mph winds...lol. I don't like Carr either, but Manziel would be 1b if Carr was 1a.
Coaches get fired all the time. Lovie Smith went 10 and 6 and got fired. Marty went 14 and 2 and got fired. Billick won a Super Bowl and got fired. There was a coach who won 8 games in his first year and he got fired. Lelslie Frazier won 10 games last year, but was fired this year. Bill Belichick was once fired.
It's part of the business. These guys get paid huge money. They know the risks that come w/the job. Think about this: if you were a coach, would you rather work for Snyder in Washington, especially considering they have given away so many draft picks and all their current issues? Do you want to walk into Minnesota's QB situation. At least we have the ability to get a top QB in the draft. We have a ton of cap room. It's not as bleak as most are making it.
Quote: I just find it kinda weird that so many people who were bad-mouthing our coaching these last several weeks are not chewing their limbs off because we lost Chud. The guy won 4 games w/a team that had more talent than last year's team and we were all down [except Spirit and 32] on Shurmur. It almost like some of these guys are enjoying this opportunity to rag on the FO. That's pretty weird.
For someone like me, I think Chud was really bad.
I also thought the best thing for the Browns was to give him another year.
I think what is so disappointing about the FO is they lied about continuity and also the reports that are coming out that they tried to force Chud's hand with the roster on who to play and who not to play.
My bottom line guess is the losing got too much. And because of that the entire organization, Haslam on down to Chud, didn't act like professionals like they said they were going to do. They never got in a room to do a post mortem and figure out where everybody could improve for next year. Instead, I think Haslam and Banner saw some things that they believed were not fixable leadership-wise with Chud and jumped to the conclusion that he just didn't possess those qualities. But if you liked him a year ago, you have to give him a chance to grow into the role. They made the assumption he wasn't capable of doing that.
It just screams of a rash decision. If they end up hiring someone like Gase, it will be proven that it is a rash decision. You only make rash decisions like that if you for sure know you are getting a proven commodity. Gase will be an epic fail here.
Quote: Playing the entire season looking over your shoulder is not a good situation regardless of what assets you may have in your favor, and the FO has set the precedent that any HC here will be coaching the season here while looking over his shoulder.
Just to play devil's advocate a little ... but 4-12 is really, really bad. I mean just awful. If a coach with average competence comes in here, he should be able to get this team to 8-8 as it is currently constructed. A coach that can do that won't need to look over his shoulder.
Problem with that is that the team next year probably won't be "as it is currently constructed". I expect Mack and Ward to walk in FA. I expect Gordon to be traded. I expect Little to be cut. I wouldn't be surprised if Thomas and/or Haden ask for trades (although Thomas's contract makes him virtually untradeable without restructuring). It wouldn't surprise me if Schwartz, Taylor and/or Rubin are let go. I also don't expect a QB to be drafted with a high draft pick...I think they're perfectly content to roll with Hoyer and Campbell as their 1 and 2 QBs.
Bill O'Brien finished with winning records both years there while attracting several top recruits to join him.............all the while inheriting an absolute DUMPSTER FIRE. tOSU went hard after a TE that signed with PSU this year, and lost out mainly because the kid loved BO'b. He didn't beat tOSU, but neither did anyone else not named MSU. BO'b is leaving that hole a lot better off than when he found it.
I read the article about Manziel. Sounded like pure BS speculation w/no facts to me.
With that said, I would much rather have Manziel than Carr. At least he isn't a wuss.
I really hope we do everything in our power to get Bridgewater, though. He is the answer. Not sure if Houston would even entertain an offer for him, but if they are willing, I say we gotta make the move.
Quote: Bill O'Brien never won anything at Penn State. His "biggest accomplishment" is beatif Wisconsin
Thank-you for that little tidbit of knowledge. The fact that he won any games at all,speaks volumes about him as a coach. Many people said it would take 10 years for PSU to recover,he coached them to a winning record this year.
Quote: Playing the entire season looking over your shoulder is not a good situation regardless of what assets you may have in your favor, and the FO has set the precedent that any HC here will be coaching the season here while looking over his shoulder.
Just to play devil's advocate a little ... but 4-12 is really, really bad. I mean just awful. If a coach with average competence comes in here, he should be able to get this team to 8-8 as it is currently constructed. A coach that can do that won't need to look over his shoulder.
Yes but with the QB situation we had, i think we were lucky to win 4, dont you think? 2-14 could been more likely. QB is so important in the NFL. Good thing we had a running game. Oh, thats right we didnt...
Not saying Chud was the answer, but i dont think any coach in the NFL could have taken us to 8-8 with no decent QB and no featured RB!
That's just excuse making. I'm not saying we should have made the playoffs with our QB situation, but 8-8 is average and should be expected with the roster we have.
Not to mention, we were in a position to close out 3-4 games that we didn't.
The bottom line is for whatever reason, the players didn't play hard for Chud. I find it ironic that some of them are pissed off when they could have prevented it from happening.
8-8 and we aren't even having this discussion today. Instead we would all be pissed off about our draft position. LOL.
Quote: Bill O'Brien never won anything at Penn State. His "biggest accomplishment" is beatif Wisconsin
Thank-you for that little tidbit of knowledge. The fact that he won any games at all,speaks volumes about him as a coach. Many people said it would take 10 years for PSU to recover,he coached them to a winning record this year.
You realize Penn State still had 4 star and 5 stat talent right? You're acting like he coached JUCO players and walk ons.
Quote: Problem with that is that the team next year probably won't be "as it is currently constructed". I expect Mack and Ward to walk in FA. I expect Gordon to be traded. I expect Little to be cut. I wouldn't be surprised if Thomas and/or Haden ask for trades (although Thomas's contract makes him virtually untradeable without restructuring). It wouldn't surprise me if Schwartz, Taylor and/or Rubin are let go. I also don't expect a QB to be drafted with a high draft pick...I think they're perfectly content to roll with Hoyer and Campbell as their 1 and 2 QBs.
Agree on Bridgewater. He should be the target, and the Browns should do anything possible if the Texans would entertain the idea. I like Bortles out of UCF. I don't know if you've seen him, but he can play........watch the Bowl Wednesday night. I just don't know if I would take him 4, but we will probably have to because he won't last much longer than that......kid is good.
Quote: Yes but with the QB situation we had, i think we were lucky to win 4, dont you think? 2-14 could been more likely. QB is so important in the NFL. Good thing we had a running game. Oh, thats right we didnt...
Not saying Chud was the answer, but i dont think any coach in the NFL could have taken us to 8-8 with no decent QB and no featured RB!
That's just excuse making.
I agree. We won 5 games the year before w/Weeden at QB in 15 of our 16 games AND Shurmur as our HC.
Quote: Problem with that is that the team next year probably won't be "as it is currently constructed". I expect Mack and Ward to walk in FA. I expect Gordon to be traded. I expect Little to be cut. I wouldn't be surprised if Thomas and/or Haden ask for trades (although Thomas's contract makes him virtually untradeable without restructuring). It wouldn't surprise me if Schwartz, Taylor and/or Rubin are let go. I also don't expect a QB to be drafted with a high draft pick...I think they're perfectly content to roll with Hoyer and Campbell as their 1 and 2 QBs.
Aren't you Mr. Sunshine?
LOL. All of this fretting about Mack/Ward leaving is hysterical. Mack can not leave if we don't want him to......it's just $$$. If Ward leaves oh well.....I like him but won't lose a second sleep if he is gone.
Quote: Playing the entire season looking over your shoulder is not a good situation regardless of what assets you may have in your favor, and the FO has set the precedent that any HC here will be coaching the season here while looking over his shoulder.
Just to play devil's advocate a little ... but 4-12 is really, really bad. I mean just awful. If a coach with average competence comes in here, he should be able to get this team to 8-8 as it is currently constructed. A coach that can do that won't need to look over his shoulder.
Problem with that is that the team next year probably won't be "as it is currently constructed". I expect Mack and Ward to walk in FA. I expect Gordon to be traded. I expect Little to be cut. I wouldn't be surprised if Thomas and/or Haden ask for trades (although Thomas's contract makes him virtually untradeable without restructuring). It wouldn't surprise me if Schwartz, Taylor and/or Rubin are let go. I also don't expect a QB to be drafted with a high draft pick...I think they're perfectly content to roll with Hoyer and Campbell as their 1 and 2 QBs.
Whoa ... lot of speculation there.
One of Mack and/or Ward will be on the team next year.
Campbell will not be ... bank on it.
Gordon is not getting traded.
It's addition by subtraction if Little is cut.
Taylor isn't going anywhere.
Thomas and Haden will be here, maybe reluctantly. I could see Thomas asking for a trade ... or even demanding a trade. He deserves to play for a winner.
A lot will depend on the new guy coming in and how he sells himself and his program to the players too. If it's a 35 year old Gase, forget about it. Needs to be someone with some credibility.
I like Bortles. I wrote about him at the beginning of the year. Said he was a sleeper. He is my second ranked QB, but I think there are miles between he and Teddy.
You realize that everyone of those players was allowed to bolt by the NCAA without penalty and BOB persuaded all of them to stay minus Redd?? I don't like PSU at all (I'm a Buckeye diehard), but keeping that program afloat, and recruiting some top players in the process is impressive. PSU is now in the position to be competitive for Bowls/conference titles as soon as they are eligible.........I wouldn't have dreamed that would be the case when the Paterno/Sandusky crap came about.....would you??
Quote: I read the article about Manziel. Sounded like pure BS speculation w/no facts to me.
With that said, I would much rather have Manziel than Carr. At least he isn't a wuss.
I really hope we do everything in our power to get Bridgewater, though. He is the answer. Not sure if Houston would even entertain an offer for him, but if they are willing, I say we gotta make the move.
sort of like all the BS articles about chud getting fired...right?
The common factor of course being that a few weeks ago people were complaining about X. And now a few weeks later people are complaining about Y. Remember Week 3 when everyone was freaking out and complaining about Z and then a few weeks later everyone knew it was actually a good thing? That was hilarious.
I am with you Vers. My only problem with the Chud firing is how hard they were pushing for consistency as a philosophy. I basically agreed with that idea and was saying we should keep Chud for 10 years basically regardless of the results.
At the same time that I was arguably one of the bigger Chud fans and supporters... I don't care if he was fired. There are a lot of politics and reasons we aren't privy to why they made that decision. And if Chud and Shurmur produced similar amounts of wins, then does it really matter who our coach is? Aside from upsetting the players and the fan base I don't think firing the coach has much of an impact.
You know what has an impact? Having a QB who isn't terrible. Which has been the browns primary issue for the last 15 years and remains unresolved. The FO could hire Rich Kotite as HC, Matt Millen as OC, and Mangini as DC.... If they managed to draft a QB who was even league average I would praise them to death as by far the best FO of the new Browns.
Personal side note Vers. You've really upped your post quality since coming back to the boards. Well done dude, from one of my least favorite to someone I actually stop to read. After the two months of a . fight with Memphis and DJ the thoughtful posts started being the norm
Agree on that point as well. I'm just resigning myself to believe that the Texans can't be stupid enough not to draft Bridgewater, and looking at other alternatives. Bortles is the only guy I would take in round 1 other than Teddy, and I am waffling on whether I would go top 5 with him.
Quote: The common factor of course being that a few weeks ago people were complaining about X. And now a few weeks later people are complaining about Y. Remember Week 3 when everyone was freaking out and complaining about Z and then a few weeks later everyone knew it was actually a good thing? That was hilarious.
I am with you Vers. My only problem with the Chud firing is how hard they were pushing for consistency as a philosophy. I basically agreed with that idea and was saying we should keep Chud for 10 years basically regardless of the results.
At the same time that I was arguably one of the bigger Chud fans and supporters... I don't care if he was fired. There are a lot of politics and reasons we aren't privy to why they made that decision. And if Chud and Shurmur produced similar amounts of wins, then does it really matter who our coach is? Aside from upsetting the players and the fan base I don't think firing the coach has much of an impact.
You know what has an impact? Having a QB who isn't terrible. Which has been the browns primary issue for the last 15 years and remains unresolved. The FO could hire Rich Kotite as HC, Matt Millen as OC, and Mangini as DC.... If they managed to draft a QB who was even league average I would praise them to death as by far the best FO of the new Browns.
Personal side note Vers. You've really upped your post quality since coming back to the boards. Well done dude, from one of my least favorite to someone I actually stop to read. After the two months of a . fight with Memphis and DJ the thoughtful posts started being the norm
you guys are grossly making up the stuff fans complained about on the boards.
i dont recall ANYBODY asking for the coaches to be fired. thats absurd. but you are acting like we can't complain?
we can't criticize the coaches on draw plays on 3rd and 1?
we can criticize the coaches on the lack of pressure on opposing QB's?
nobody was calling for coaches heads. what we were asking for and complaining about is better play calling, game management, ETC. normally stuff anybody watching the game will make.
anyway, i just watched the presser again in its entirety
thoughts:
haslam's facial expressions were epic. i laughed the entire way through.
while it doesn't sting any less, i give them massive credit for at least admitting they got it wrong. that alone takes some serious nuts.
at the same time, i think they are grossly underestimating how well they think they can attract a top notch coach to come here. draft picks doesn't mean anything except you now have to start your first season as a HC with a bunch of players who don't know anything.
i'm really glad the media hammered them, and hard. i might not saying it will help, but i can bet money this is gonna make them search beyond a shadow of a doubt for the right guy, if no other reason than to avoid the lynching they received on live TV.
i'm sick of them taking credit for the cap situation that heckert and holmgren created. they walked into a great situation when it comes to the cap.
all in all.....eh. lets see who they hire, and what QB the coaches and FO choose in the Draft.
Quote: Who is the reporter reading the Facebook posts?
Dan DeRoos from Chanel 19. That was priceless. Haslem looked visibly pissed for a moment when he was asking his thoughts on fans perception that this organization is a complete embarrassment to the city and NFL. Additionally, how the fans would like Haslem, Banner and Lombardi to pack their bags and get out of town.
This franchise is an absolute mess!
Just remember, that wasn't the words of that reporter, those were what fans wrote on one of the social media sites. He was just reading them out loud.
Quote: Who is the reporter reading the Facebook posts?
Dan DeRoos from Chanel 19. That was priceless. Haslem looked visibly pissed for a moment when he was asking his thoughts on fans perception that this organization is a complete embarrassment to the city and NFL. Additionally, how the fans would like Haslem, Banner and Lombardi to pack their bags and get out of town.
This franchise is an absolute mess!
Just remember, that wasn't the words of that reporter, those were what fans wrote on one of the social media sites. He was just reading them out loud.
you can tell the way he read it, he was having a blast though. must have been awesome.
To be fair during the games I am mostly in the chatroom. And yes people were calling for heads to roll in there. Might not be the brightest people, but it was happening
My problem isn't that people complain per se... It is that people freak out over bad news. Trading T Rich people acted like they were having their legs amputated. Some claimed they were done with the franchise then as well.
People hate unexpected bad news and decisive action taken to avoid future catastrophe. We traded T Rich and a bunch of people cried themselves to sleep. Only to realize a few weeks later it was arguably the greatest trade in the NFL in the last decade.
Most people would be less upset if we allowed Chud to coach for 3-5 years and then fired him. They would have sufficient time to develop their opinions about his coaching and would be able to justify the decision. But guess what? It stings more to fire the guy now, but what if...just maybe if... the FO knows what it is doing and just saved us 2-4 years of below average coaching? What if the next coach they sign is excellent?
There is no reason yet to think the sky is falling.
Quote: Who is the reporter reading the Facebook posts?
Dan DeRoos from Chanel 19. That was priceless. Haslem looked visibly pissed for a moment when he was asking his thoughts on fans perception that this organization is a complete embarrassment to the city and NFL. Additionally, how the fans would like Haslem, Banner and Lombardi to pack their bags and get out of town.
This franchise is an absolute mess!
Just remember, that wasn't the words of that reporter, those were what fans wrote on one of the social media sites. He was just reading them out loud.
you can tell the way he read it, he was having a blast though. must have been awesome.
It sounded like he was enjoying it,,,LOL Banners face was classic when the reporter mentioned the three stooges
Either Mort or Sheft.........one of those ESPN guys,,,,,,,, was saying this morning that the Browns want to marry the new HC w/the QB. Meaning they will hire someone as our HC and let him choose and groom the new QB.
Quote: That would be a God send if Houston did that.
Either Mort or Sheft.........one of those ESPN guys,,,,,,,, was saying this morning that the Browns want to marry the new HC w/the QB. Meaning they will hire someone as our HC and let him choose and groom the new QB.
I hope to God it is Bridgewater.
well, that means we have to find the right HC that can tailor the offense to Teddy, if he is indeed the QB they want.
which means, we need to have a offensive minded Coord. i dunno how i feel about that, but honestly, if we can land bridgewater, i won't care.
the thing is, mcdaniels isn't the guy imo. there are way to many reports of him being one of the top canidates.
i think o'brian is going to houston.
we can say the OC in denver, but who REALLY runs that offense?
we need a HC that has a history of grooming good QB's....
Banner: We didn't see improvement from the beginning of the season to the end, even though we brought in good talent, so we fired the coach.
And, Banner again: You can't judge us (the 3 stooges) on the talent we brought in because a lot of the players were injured, so we need to wait to judge us (the 3 stooges) until those players can play. It will take a year or 2.
Quote: Rish and Swish were the ring leaders of the "chud must go" movement.. Looks like they got their wish
please, reference a post where i say i want chud gone.
just one.
don't worry, i'll wait.
Not trying to be a jerk, but what exactly were you implying when you made this quote in the What Happened to the Coaching thread?
Quote:
just throwing this out there guys.
we had one pro bowler last year in Joe T. we were 5-ll.
we have 5( with 1 alt) and we REGRESSED this year, cause we are going to lose today most likely.
even if we win. we "upgraded" our talent this year, and got the same record.
coaching is absolutely a problem.
I didn't write that, I have no idea what you mean Vers? I may have responded to someone, but I didn't write that... At least I don't remember ever writing that
Quote: Aside from upsetting the players and the fan base I don't think firing the coach has much of an impact.
Won't make an impact? We'll have to go through the process of changing schemes and acquiring players to FIT the new schemes....again..... What if the new HC is a 4-3 guy? Back to the 4-3 we go.... Bryant and Kruger quickly become the proverbial . on a bull.
you can kiss ward, mack and haden goodbye once their contracts are up. Also i dont think any good free agents will want to come here. Which leads me to my next point, how the hell are you going to convince a coach to come here after he has seen what happened to chud? The only guy that i see coming here is Josh Mcdainels....and that is a very very bad thing.............
I just find it kinda weird that so many people who were bad-mouthing our coaching these last several weeks are not chewing their limbs off because we lost Chud.
It is weird that some of you who were bashing the coaching are now so, so upset w/the firing.
Why would you be upset w/the firing of someone you said was "a problem?"
Look man, we both know the answer to that one. Let's allow it to drop.
Quote: That would be a God send if Houston did that.
Either Mort or Sheft.........one of those ESPN guys,,,,,,,, was saying this morning that the Browns want to marry the new HC w/the QB. Meaning they will hire someone as our HC and let him choose and groom the new QB.
I hope to God it is Bridgewater.
Me to. I wouldn't blink at giving up both 1st rounders, a 2nd, a 3rd, and a 4th. I know that's a lot to pay, but to get a franchise QB for what at the beginning of the year would have equated to a 2nd rounder, TRich, and mid rounders is peanuts...........and an utter steal by this FO. It would make me feel a WHOLE lot better about these guys.
since when does criticism and wanting somebody fired go hand and hand?
don't we do the same with players? nobody says they shouldn't start, just need to improve.
but it doesn't work that with with coaches?
YO, Look up a few posts and you'll see I DID respond to you..
What, is it that you think all I have to do all day is to respond to you? You just aren't that important in the big picture. Hell, not even in the little picture
Quote: I never said you wanted them fired. I said:
Quote:
I just find it kinda weird that so many people who were bad-mouthing our coaching these last several weeks are not chewing their limbs off because we lost Chud.
It is weird that some of you who were bashing the coaching are now so, so upset w/the firing.
Why would you be upset w/the firing of someone you said was "a problem?"
Look man, we both know the answer to that one. Let's allow it to drop.
no, because you clearly don't know. i was on the "give them another year" because i liked to have team chemistry and more time.
i said it was a problem, absolutely, but try finding a quote saying they couldn't change.
i said they needed to improve. i have NEVER said they need to be fired.
why are you guys putting words in my mouth. that is simply ridiculous.
I wish I knew the value of moving up from 4th to either 1st or 2nd. I hope that teams realize that Washington made a mistake by giving up that much two years ago and that the price won't be that steep again.
since when does criticism and wanting somebody fired go hand and hand?
don't we do the same with players? nobody says they shouldn't start, just need to improve.
but it doesn't work that with with coaches?
YO, Look up a few posts and you'll see I DID respond to you..
What, is it that you think all I have to do all day is to respond to you? You just aren't that important in the big picture. Hell, not even in the little picture
maybe because you're saying crap that isn't true. my bad, i forgot, we make up stuff around here on this board.
Quote: Aside from upsetting the players and the fan base I don't think firing the coach has much of an impact.
Won't make an impact? We'll have to go through the process of changing schemes and acquiring players to FIT the new schemes....again..... What if the new HC is a 4-3 guy? Back to the 4-3 we go.... Bryant and Kruger quickly become the proverbial . on a bull.
I would be SHOCKED if we hire someone that wants to shift to a 4-3. That would make zero sense. But Bryant did play in a 4-3 in Oakland IIRC. He wasn't bad at it.
I'll tell you who would become obsolete is Mingo. I'm not sure he can be a 4-3DE at this level even though he did it at LSU.... To little, IMO
Quote: Aside from upsetting the players and the fan base I don't think firing the coach has much of an impact.
Won't make an impact? We'll have to go through the process of changing schemes and acquiring players to FIT the new schemes....again..... What if the new HC is a 4-3 guy? Back to the 4-3 we go.... Bryant and Kruger quickly become the proverbial . on a bull.
I would be SHOCKED if we hire someone that wants to shift to a 4-3. That would make zero sense. But Bryant did play in a 4-3 in Oakland IIRC. He wasn't bad at it.
I'll tell you who would become obsolete is Mingo. I'm not sure he can be a 4-3DE at this level even though he did it at LSU.... To little, IMO
i think mingo MIGHT in the 4-3 as a DE. with 4 D-linemen, he might excel at having to mostly beat one guy, seeing as rubin and taylor normally command double teams.
None of my business I know, but I imagine Vers's quote about "we both know" is alluding to your pension to blast the FO no matter what they have done since you came over here.
I and others have blasted them when it was warranted (like today), but you and a few others have blasted them no matter what they would have done. It really isn't that hard to see people who cleverly "hide" their agenda in almost every post they make I promise...lol.
Again, none of my business and Vers can fight his own battles I know, because I've fought them with him in the past. However, it does get old when some guys are blatant agenda posters and when they get called on it do the "who me" routine.
Quote: I wish I knew the value of moving up from 4th to either 1st or 2nd. I hope that teams realize that Washington made a mistake by giving up that much two years ago and that the price won't be that steep again.
One can hope. I do know that I wouldn't part with any other picks that are in next year's draft. The Skins set their franchise back big time with the way that deal was structured...........an organization simply can't go 3 years without a 1st rounder and expect to compete at a high level. As bad as it is right now to be a Browns fan I wouldn't trade places with a Skin fan for nothing...lol.
Quote: Aside from upsetting the players and the fan base I don't think firing the coach has much of an impact.
Won't make an impact? We'll have to go through the process of changing schemes and acquiring players to FIT the new schemes....again..... What if the new HC is a 4-3 guy? Back to the 4-3 we go.... Bryant and Kruger quickly become the proverbial . on a bull.
I would be SHOCKED if we hire someone that wants to shift to a 4-3. That would make zero sense. But Bryant did play in a 4-3 in Oakland IIRC. He wasn't bad at it.
I'll tell you who would become obsolete is Mingo. I'm not sure he can be a 4-3DE at this level even though he did it at LSU.... To little, IMO
i think mingo MIGHT in the 4-3 as a DE. with 4 D-linemen, he might excel at having to mostly beat one guy, seeing as rubin and taylor normally command double teams.
They better hope Mingo can play SLB if they go to a 4-3, much like they realized they have to do with Dion Jordan in Miami (and like I said Jordan would have to do pre-draft.) No way is he playing DE in a 4-3 at 240 pounds.
Quote: None of my business I know, but I imagine Vers's quote about "we both know" is alluding to your pension to blast the FO no matter what they have done since you came over here.
I and others have blasted them when it was warranted (like today), but you and a few others have blasted them no matter what they would have done. It really isn't that hard to see people who cleverly "hide" their agenda in almost every post they make I promise...lol.
Again, none of my business and Vers can fight his own battles I know, because I've fought them with him in the past. However, it does get old when some guys are blatant agenda posters and when they get called on it do the "who me" routine.
i get what you're saying, and that makes me apologize to you and vers and daman.
but i still strongly disagree about me only posting negatives. thats all i'm saying.
some posters are acting like criticizing the FO means i want them gone. its 2 different things.
Quote: Aside from upsetting the players and the fan base I don't think firing the coach has much of an impact.
Won't make an impact? We'll have to go through the process of changing schemes and acquiring players to FIT the new schemes....again..... What if the new HC is a 4-3 guy? Back to the 4-3 we go.... Bryant and Kruger quickly become the proverbial . on a bull.
I would be SHOCKED if we hire someone that wants to shift to a 4-3. That would make zero sense. But Bryant did play in a 4-3 in Oakland IIRC. He wasn't bad at it.
I'll tell you who would become obsolete is Mingo. I'm not sure he can be a 4-3DE at this level even though he did it at LSU.... To little, IMO
i think mingo MIGHT in the 4-3 as a DE. with 4 D-linemen, he might excel at having to mostly beat one guy, seeing as rubin and taylor normally command double teams.
They better hope Mingo can play SLB if they go to a 4-3, much like they realized they have to do with Dion Jordan in Miami (and like I said Jordan would have to do pre-draft.) No way is he playing DE in a 4-3 at 240 pounds.
i don't know. i guess we have to hope mingo bulks up. horton said that comes with time naturally. so hopefully they can find a important role for him.
Quote: Aside from upsetting the players and the fan base I don't think firing the coach has much of an impact.
Won't make an impact? We'll have to go through the process of changing schemes and acquiring players to FIT the new schemes....again..... What if the new HC is a 4-3 guy? Back to the 4-3 we go.... Bryant and Kruger quickly become the proverbial . on a bull.
I would be SHOCKED if we hire someone that wants to shift to a 4-3. That would make zero sense. But Bryant did play in a 4-3 in Oakland IIRC. He wasn't bad at it.
I'll tell you who would become obsolete is Mingo. I'm not sure he can be a 4-3DE at this level even though he did it at LSU.... To little, IMO
i think mingo MIGHT in the 4-3 as a DE. with 4 D-linemen, he might excel at having to mostly beat one guy, seeing as rubin and taylor normally command double teams.
They better hope Mingo can play SLB if they go to a 4-3, much like they realized they have to do with Dion Jordan in Miami (and like I said Jordan would have to do pre-draft.) No way is he playing DE in a 4-3 at 240 pounds.
I feel the same way. Did Desmond Bryant play DE in Oakland...?
Quote: For the record, here is the top of McShay's mock.
Houston: Teddy
St. Louis: Jake Matthews
Oakland: Bortles
Browns: Manziel
McDaniel and Manziel sounds like the match (good or not) I can see them going with. However, McDaniel has one strike against him in Denver and would he want to take this job which if/ when he failed could mostly likely be his last shot.
I don't see what they can offer a higher level candidate because you can bet the farm FULL CONTROL is NOT on the table!
Failure is a tough word, and I hope I didn't make that strong a statement....not saying I didn't come across that way just not what I intended. What I was trying to say is that there was some merit to what was being reported about this team regressing. We were 3-2 and then proceeded to lose 10 out of the next 11 games........including the likes of the Jags and Jets. I also felt that there was some merit to the comments that Vers made about guys quitting.
well that's the first piece of BS ... Vers used Gordon as an example of players quitting ... Gordon is a lazy POS that's been taking plays off since his first game back .. its been well documented on here by Vers long before everyone started saying the team quit on him ... and I for one ... DID NOT SEE THAT ...
I got a question for U ... u say this team quit ... well one of the biggest gripes about this teams performances is that they gave up leads in the 4th quarter ... well if the players quit on him ... WHY DID WE COME OUT OF THE GATE STRONG EVERY WEEK??? ... seriously .... did we get lucky every week to start games??? ... or did the players quit AFTER WE BUILT LEADS IN ALMOST EVERY GAME????? ... seems like an odd time to quit to me ... players usually don't quit WHEN THERE AHEAD .. THEY QUIT WHEN THERE BEHIND ...
now .. if u want to talk about adjustments ... I can't say a word about that without being a hypocrite cause the FACT IS we didn't do well there ... but bro .. I see NO FACTS TO SUPPORT our players quitting .. THE SEQUENCE OF THE GAMES JUST DOESN'T FIT THAT SCENARIO .... it makes NO SENSE BRO ...
IMO guys were playing just as hard in game 5 as they did in game 16 ... obviously theres a natural downward projection of someones play the further out of it U fall ... your just not going to get as up for a game when your 3 - 8 as u are if your even 5 - 6 ... its just HUMAN NATURE ... I don't buy into the team quit on him .... that's just BS IMO ...
Quote: Look at the Jags bro, that team was 0-8 and left for dead, but they got better and finished 4-4......they never quit on their HC (to his credit). We are more talented than the Jags, but consistently found new and exciting ways to lose games.
your busy with your boys bro so u don't have time to do your homework ... so i'll help u out ...
1st off how do we have way more talent than the Jags??? ... we may have at the start of the season but not at the end ...
We had T-Rich ... they had MJD ... we traded T-Rich (great trade BTW) .. they kept MJD ... when MJD went down they had the rookie Todman to put in ... who did we have??? ..... we had NOTHING until Baker showed up .... and he was an improvement but I don't see him being a feature back ANYWHERE anytime soon ...
so we lost our only running back for the last 14 games of the year .. they lost there RB for 1 game and had an adequate replacement for him ....
then theres the QB situations ... ours went from bad to way better to horrible ... way better had 2.5 games ... that's it ... there,QB situation actually IMPROVED because of the injury to Gabbert .. u wanna say that Chud messed up starting weeds .. go ahead .. I disagree cause we needed to see what we had in weeds and u can't do that with him on the bench ... but u know what .. i'll give u that ... lets put a check mark in the mistake box on that one for chud ... well they did the same thing in J-Ville ... they started gabbert even though hes as bad as Weeds cause they wanted to see what they had ... then Gabbert gets hurt and there forced to go to henne ... henne's not all pro by any stretch .. hes actually pretty bad ... but I'd take him over Weeds or Campbell in a heartbeat ..
so there injury at QB ACTUALY HELPED THEM ... where as our first injury helped us but the 2nd one DESTROYED US!!!
there QB play got better with the injury ... ours went to hell after the 2nd injury ..
they also went out and picked up Justin babin this year ... where as we picked up willis mcgahee ... *LOL* ...
at the beginning of the year .. I would agree we had way more talent ... at the end of they year ... naaaa ... we have had more but not by a lot ... and we certainly didn't have more at the QB position witch is HUGE ... and if u have a hole at QB a good running game is your best friend ... and we had NO RB either ...
this org. comparing Chud to other org's with 1st year coaches is TOTAL BS ... every org. is different and ALL SURONDING CIRCUMSTANCES were very different ..,, this is just our A-holes grasping at straws to keep folks from following the bouncing ball ...
and u say the jags didn't quit on there coach .... well u must not have watcdhed yesterdays game against the colts .. cause if u did u would be signing a different tune bro ... I have no clue weather they quit or not .. but they sure got there asses handed to them by a team that IMO is not very good most weeks ..
Quote: the crap Ryan takes for the Jets, that guys get's the most out of that crap roster he has...kudos to him.
I agree on this one ... I am not a ryan fan at all ... but I said half way through the year he should coach of the year for the job hes doing there ... when they were saying he might be fired I was *LMAO* ... caue the Jets have another dysfunctional FO so I thought ... ya .. they might do it .. *L* ..
he did a great job THIS YEAR ... not sure how that equates to what Chud did ... entirely different situations ... veteran laden roster vs young roster ... all new systems and coaches in c-town ... not sure if the jets had any turnover on O but I know they didn't on D cause Ryan runs that show .. and the D is what led this team ...
so I guess u got me there ... *shrugs* ...
Quote: We also held the lead in countless games in the 1st half only to get our butt handed to us in the 2nd half.........depth?? maybe, but it happened in the 1st few games to before the injuries mounted.
it had sumptin to do with depth .. no doubt ... the real culprit to me there is that we either sucked at adjustments or when they made there adjustments we didn't have the talent to combat them ... I have no clue on that one ..
like I said earlier ... if u want to crush them for adjustments ... they either just got out coached or they didn't have the talent to adjust when the other tames made there adjustments ...
but the fact we came out of the gate swinging tells me that NO ONE GAVE UP ... and U can't dispute we got up in most games and that's a weird trait for a team that's given up ...
Quote: My problem with the firing is he was never a chance to correct his deficiencies and grow as a HC.........and most importantly if he is this bad that he needs fired after 1 year then why did the stooges hire him to begin with???.........where's the accountability for that crap.
DING DING DING .... this wreaks of Chud not agreeing with Lombardi and one had to go and of course weasel #2 (Banner) got rid of Chud ...
Thanks for your thoughts on O'Brien ... I know nuttin about the guy ... just wanted to know what u liked about him ... not gonna comment on here cause I don't want to get involved with the peanut gallery over O'Brien ...
Failure is a tough word, and I hope I didn't make that strong a statement....not saying I didn't come across that way just not what I intended. What I was trying to say is that there was some merit to what was being reported about this team regressing. We were 3-2 and then proceeded to lose 10 out of the next 11 games........including the likes of the Jags and Jets. I also felt that there was some merit to the comments that Vers made about guys quitting.
well that's the first piece of BS ... Vers used Gordon as an example of players quitting ... Gordon is a lazy POS that's been taking plays off since his first game back .. its been well documented on here by Vers long before everyone started saying the team quit on him ... and I for one ... DID NOT SEE THAT ...
I got a question for U ... u say this team quit ... well one of the biggest gripes about this teams performances is that they gave up leads in the 4th quarter ... well if the players quit on him ... WHY DID WE COME OUT OF THE GATE STRONG EVERY WEEK??? ... seriously .... did we get lucky every week to start games??? ... or did the players quit AFTER WE BUILT LEADS IN ALMOST EVERY GAME????? ... seems like an odd time to quit to me ... players usually don't quit WHEN THERE AHEAD .. THEY QUIT WHEN THERE BEHIND ...
now .. if u want to talk about adjustments ... I can't say a word about that without being a hypocrite cause the FACT IS we didn't do well there ... but bro .. I see NO FACTS TO SUPPORT our players quitting .. THE SEQUENCE OF THE GAMES JUST DOESN'T FIT THAT SCENARIO .... it makes NO SENSE BRO ...
IMO guys were playing just as hard in game 5 as they did in game 16 ... obviously theres a natural downward projection of someones play the further out of it U fall ... your just not going to get as up for a game when your 3 - 8 as u are if your even 5 - 6 ... its just HUMAN NATURE ... I don't buy into the team quit on him .... that's just BS IMO ...
Quote: Look at the Jags bro, that team was 0-8 and left for dead, but they got better and finished 4-4......they never quit on their HC (to his credit). We are more talented than the Jags, but consistently found new and exciting ways to lose games.
your busy with your boys bro so u don't have time to do your homework ... so i'll help u out ...
1st off how do we have way more talent than the Jags??? ... we may have at the start of the season but not at the end ...
We had T-Rich ... they had MJD ... we traded T-Rich (great trade BTW) .. they kept MJD ... when MJD went down they had the rookie Todman to put in ... who did we have??? ..... we had NOTHING until Baker showed up .... and he was an improvement but I don't see him being a feature back ANYWHERE anytime soon ...
so we lost our only running back for the last 14 games of the year .. they lost there RB for 1 game and had an adequate replacement for him ....
then theres the QB situations ... ours went from bad to way better to horrible ... way better had 2.5 games ... that's it ... there QB situation actually IMPROVED because of the injury to Gabbert .. u wanna say that Chud messed up starting weeds .. go ahead .. I disagree cause we needed to see what we had in weeds and u can't do that with him on the bench ... but u know what .. i'll give u that ... lets put a check mark in the mistake box on that one for chud ... well they did the same thing in J-Ville ... they started gabbert even though hes as bad as Weeds cause they wanted to see what they had ... then Gabbert gets hurt and there forced to go to henne ... henne's not all pro by any stretch .. hes actually pretty bad ... but I'd take him over Weeds or Campbell in a heartbeat ..
so there injury at QB ACTUALY HELPED THEM ... where as our first injury helped us but the 2nd one DESTROYED US!!!
there QB play got better with the injury ... ours went to hell after the 2nd injury ..
they also went out and picked up Justin babin this year ... where as we picked up willis mcgahee ... *LOL* ...
at the beginning of the year .. I would agree we had way more talent ... at the end of they year ... naaaa ... we have had more but not by a lot ... and we certainly didn't have more at the QB position witch is HUGE ... and if u have a hole at QB a good running game is your best friend ... and we had NO RB either ...
this org. comparing Chud to other org's with 1st year coaches is TOTAL BS ... every org. is different and ALL SURONDING CIRCUMSTANCES were very different ..,, this is just our A-holes grasping at straws to keep folks from following the bouncing ball ...
and u say the jags didn't quit on there coach .... well u must not have watcdhed yesterdays game against the colts .. cause if u did u would be signing a different tune bro ... I have no clue weather they quit or not .. but they sure got there asses handed to them by a team that IMO is not very good most weeks ..
Quote: the crap Ryan takes for the Jets, that guys get's the most out of that crap roster he has...kudos to him.
I agree on this one ... I am not a ryan fan at all ... but I said half way through the year he should coach of the year for the job hes doing there ... when they were saying he might be fired I was *LMAO* ... caue the Jets have another dysfunctional FO so I thought ... ya .. they might do it .. *L* ..
he did a great job THIS YEAR ... not sure how that equates to what Chud did ... entirely different situations ... veteran laden roster vs young roster ... all new systems and coaches in c-town ... not sure if the jets had any turnover on O but I know they didn't on D cause Ryan runs that show .. and the D is what led this team ...
so I guess u got me there ... *shrugs* ...
Quote: We also held the lead in countless games in the 1st half only to get our butt handed to us in the 2nd half.........depth?? maybe, but it happened in the 1st few games to before the injuries mounted.
it had sumptin to do with depth .. no doubt ... the real culprit to me there is that we either sucked at adjustments or when they made there adjustments we didn't have the talent to combat them ... I have no clue on that one ..
like I said earlier ... if u want to crush them for adjustments ... they either just got out coached or they didn't have the talent to adjust when the other tames made there adjustments ...
but the fact we came out of the gate swinging tells me that NO ONE GAVE UP ... and U can't dispute we got up in most games and that's a weird trait for a team that's given up ...
Quote: My problem with the firing is he was never a chance to correct his deficiencies and grow as a HC.........and most importantly if he is this bad that he needs fired after 1 year then why did the stooges hire him to begin with???.........where's the accountability for that crap.
DING DING DING .... this wreaks of Chud not agreeing with Lombardi and one had to go and of course weasel #2 (Banner) got rid of Chud ...
Thanks for your thoughts on O'Brien ... I know nuttin about the guy ... just wanted to know what u liked about him ... not gonna comment on here cause I don't want to get involved with the peanut gallery over O'Brien ...
gordon being lazy? 1564 says otherwise.
man... i wonder what gordon can do with consistent QB play if y'all think 1564, most in the nfl, and a pro bowl is lazy.
Quote: I wish I knew the value of moving up from 4th to either 1st or 2nd. I hope that teams realize that Washington made a mistake by giving up that much two years ago and that the price won't be that steep again.
I know nuttin about Bridgewater .... but your word is good enough for me ...
PROBLEM IS ...
Wash traded with a team that didn't need a QB ... Houston KNOWS THEY NEED A QB ....
add that to the fact U have said after Bridge theres a HUGE DROP OFF ....
so why would Houston trade with us at all unless we gave them a kings ranson .... and even then it is real hard to get a franchise qb so why would they trade the pick if Bridge is all that and they need one???? ...
IMO our only shot at Bridge is if they hire a defensive minded coach that doesn't value QB's as much as he does D and they decide to stockpile picks ... that's the only scenario I see .... either that or they hire an offensive minded guy who thinks theres a FA or someone on an NFL roster he can trade for and then trading with us becomes a no brainer if we make the right package ..
as the NFL stand today ... we have as much a shot at getting Bridge as Chud does of coaching here next year ... OK ... maybe slightly better than that ...
This is just to remind people about Mike Lombardi's track record.. this does NOT make me feel giddy.. When this FO started I was adamantly against ML. Banner made me fee a little uneasy.. then as the season went on, I developed into a wait and see.. giving way to a cautious optimism.
This has changed. I am now worried abot Banner.. and Haslam is just another crook to me.
I don't think that we would cut any DL is we went back to the 4-3. (which would be idiotic)
If anything we would add numerous DL.
One other thing I have been thinking about. There was something said about developing players, and how Chud did not d a good job of this.
I look at this team and have to wonder what they were looking at.
Gordon went from a kid with potential to leading the NFL in receiving yards ...... after missing the 1st 2 games.
Cameron became a Pro Bowl TE. Again, a kid with potential last year became a Pro Bowl player this year.
Brian Hoyer played the best football he has ever played in his NFL career.
Joe Haden improved to shut down several top receivers this year, and also made the Pro Bowl.
Gipson has become an average NFL FS, with solid hands and an eye for the football.
Teams don't generally have more than a few players make huge leaps forward in any given year.Players improve, but they usually don't jump from decent to leading the NFL. Young players develop, but we had a few guys make just enormous strides.
Man, we had a WR and a TE have great years with Jason Campbell, Brandon Weeden, and Brian Hoyer throwing the ball. Just think on that for a while.
All we have talked about lately is the fact that in today's NFL you better have a QB, because if you don't, the odds are really stacked against you. If you don't have a QB, then you better have a great run game and a tremendous defense. We traded our starting RB early on. (which I agreed with, but it is a piece of the larger puzzle) No QB and no RB means that a team probably isn't going to win much.
Also, we traded away our 3rd and 4th round picks for picks next year. I agree with that long term, but man, you really limit your new head coach with moves like that.
I have to laugh when Banner said that he felt that they gave the coaches enough talent to win with. The Browns, with $40 million in cap space, and multiple draft picks next year ...... so I feel that, based on what Banner said ....... that this had better be a 10 win team next year. (minimum)
I was also stunned when Haslam said something along the lines of not really knowing about the next head coach until after 6 months.Really? 6 whole months? Wow, that must reassure any candidate who may have looked that the situation here and thought that Chud got a raw deal.
Oh well ...... back to the starting line again. Yea.
Well Y-town .... the good news is we should be really comfie in the starting blocks since we pretty much live in them ... *L* ....
I said the same thing about 6 months also ... at first he said 1 year and I cringed at that one .... and thought ... WOW ... then he got mad (U could see him changing with every question he didn't like .... *L*) ... and he said 6 months and I had to replay it to make sure I heard it right ...
at the end of the day ... the last 4 or 5 mins were bigger BS than the first 40 mins or so ... cause when he got mad he got flustered and his responses became dumber and dumber ....
the worse part of the PC for me was when he said that he wasn't going to be in trouble for his crooked ass business practices ... that was DEPRESSING ...
I know nuttin about Bridgewater .... but your word is good enough for me ...
PROBLEM IS ...
Wash traded with a team that didn't need a QB ... Houston KNOWS THEY NEED A QB ....
add that to the fact U have said after Bridge theres a HUGE DROP OFF ....
so why would Houston trade with us at all unless we gave them a kings ranson .... and even then it is real hard to get a franchise qb so why would they trade the pick if Bridge is all that and they need one???? ...
Yeah, I know. But a man needs hope in order to persevere.
I find it odd that I went to the official chat site and posted a rant (no curse words) under the title "Fire Lombardi and Banner Too Haslam" and it was deleted within minutes... lol
I find it odd that I went to the official chat site and posted a rant (no curse words) under the title "Fire Lombardi and Banner Too Haslam" and it was deleted within minutes... lol
i post there. thats because there is already a thread with them ranting.
they delete peoples post here too if its already being discussed.
It galls me that the posters were celebrating the questions and the spot that Banner and Haslam were put in. I found some of those questions embarrassing. The Three Stooges comment was not funny, it was immature and irresponsible.
And Super was saying they never admitted to being wrong. What? They did it over and over and over.
One more thing I need to get off my chest. I keep reading these articles and hearing Silver talking about our players complaining. Earlier in the year, they were freaking out and complaining about the poor coaching, especially after the Jax game [oh, and sorry Diam.........Jax does not have more talent than us.]
As the day progresses, I watch other players, such as Ponder in Minnesota, taking the blame for their coach getting fired. He said things that the players did not play well enough.
And people still don't think we need a culture change? We got players blaming the coaches and then later blaming the FO for firing the coach.
Here's some free advice. How about you freaking play better and win some freaking games and quit blaming everyone else for your shortcomings.
Quote: I haven't heard many players really complaining about this firing. It's the same quotes over and over.
A few weeks ago, a poster sent me an Insider report that stated the players were blaming the coaches for the losing. They were complaining about all kinds of things that the coaches were doing.
It made me mad to read that at the time and it is making me mad to hear the players complain now.
My advice to the players. Play harder. Win some games. Stop complaining about things you can't control.
This team quit down the stretch. Quit!!! Some were blaming the coaching staff for the losses. Now others are blaming the FO.
Pffftttttttttttt..............the Browns need to change the culture. Not sure how they are going to do it, but we have to get rid of the cancers.
I got the same reports and felt the same way.
Now that it has set in.....I have no problem with this.....It means we aren't the same old Browns.
Quote: Thanks King, but being w/me is not a popular place.
That depends on "where you are".
When someone mentioned that Chud should be fired just last week, you got a little miffed about it to say the least. I believe it was "Yeah, just fire them all!"
You thought the idea was in sane. Now?
While you say you don't like the move, you still uphold the people doing it and say people are using it as an excuse for people to bash the FO?
Just like the weather in Ohio, it always changes.
We have no QB, we have no running game and the D didn't really improve pressure on the QB.
Chud was the sacrificial lamb. The fall guy for the failure of everyone.
You've always claimed this coaching staff would be here for the long haul. These guys lied to all of us, you included. Some of us want to hold them accountable for that. Some of us don't trust people who lie to us.
You'll have to forgive us for that. Or not. But when people lie to you, that's not some excuse to question and mistrust them. That's a reason.
Excuse those of us who will wait for proof before we trust them now. I'm not really surprised by any of this. I really didn't trust them much from the beginning.
But for someone like yourself who did? This should be a slap in the face to you. Yet you're so intent on being right about this group, you won't own up to it.
You know as well as anyone that Chud had no help in the off season in terms of a QB or running game. Yet the FO holds him accountable for the results in his first season.
It's laughable and fully understandable why someone would tag them as The Three Stooges.
No, we ARE the same old Browns until we start winning consistently. Until then, we're the same old losing franchise that constantly does unspeakably baffling things at strange times in the hopes that this time it'll be the magical fix and have us start winning.
It galls me that the posters were celebrating the questions and the spot that Banner and Haslam were put in. I found some of those questions embarrassing. The Three Stooges comment was not funny, it was immature and irresponsible.
And Super was saying they never admitted to being wrong. What? They did it over and over and over.
One more thing I need to get off my chest. I keep reading these articles and hearing Silver talking about our players complaining. Earlier in the year, they were freaking out and complaining about the poor coaching, especially after the Jax game [oh, and sorry Diam.........Jax does not have more talent than us.]
As the day progresses, I watch other players, such as Ponder in Minnesota, taking the blame for their coach getting fired. He said things that the players did not play well enough.
And people still don't think we need a culture change? We got players blaming the coaches and then later blaming the FO for firing the coach.
Here's some free advice. How about you freaking play better and win some freaking games and quit blaming everyone else for your shortcomings.
When someone mentioned that Chud should be fired just last week, you got a little miffed about it to say the least. I believe it was "Yeah, just fire them all!"
You thought the idea was in sane. Now?
I have stated that I am upset w/the move. I have always believed in continuity. I'm just not going to get as dramatic about it as some of you.
Quote: While you say you don't like the move, you still uphold the people doing it and say people are using it as an excuse for people to bash the FO?
That's right. So what?
Quote:
You've always claimed this coaching staff would be here for the long haul. These guys lied to all of us, you included. Some of us want to hold them accountable for that. Some of us don't trust people who lie to us.
Why didn't you same guys ever hold The Big Show accountable for his numerous lies? Why didn't you bash him for not even being in Cleveland for large portions of the year?
I frankly don't care if you guys do trust them. I can't control what you think. I am not going to sit here and play this melodramatic games that some of you are playing, though.
Quote: But for someone like yourself who did? This should be a slap in the face to you. Yet you're so intent on being right about this group, you won't own up to it.
LMAO.............it isn't over. It's been a year. And you saying that I am so intent on being right is priceless. Absolutely priceless.
Quote: I got a question for U ... u say this team quit ... well one of the biggest gripes about this teams performances is that they gave up leads in the 4th quarter ... well if the players quit on him ... WHY DID WE COME OUT OF THE GATE STRONG EVERY WEEK??? ... seriously .... did we get lucky every week to start games??? ... or did the players quit AFTER WE BUILT LEADS IN ALMOST EVERY GAME????? ... seems like an odd time to quit to me ... players usually don't quit WHEN THERE AHEAD .. THEY QUIT WHEN THERE BEHIND ...
I knew you were going to nail me on that one...lol...we've done this for to many years bro.....I know you like my wife...lol.
I wasn't referring to Gordon as I'm with you and think he's another prima-dona that could leave tomorrow and I wouldn't give a flying crap. I was referring more about guys like Bess (who just freaking quit completely), Ward, and at times Haden. These guys checked out weeks ago. The Jags??? Bro they had MJD, but he absolutely SUCKS at this point in his career and was every bit as bad as TRich. The Todman kid..........you really think he is a starter or significant contributor next year??? I don't. Oh and CH vs. Cambell is a push bro......both guys are journeyman who have done nothing to make one say they are the answer to squat. I think both of our lines are better than the Jags as far as talent, and as bad as I hate our secondary......loads better than the crap fest the Jags have.
You are right that the team didn't tank on Terry Robiskie type proportions...lol...but I believe whole heartedly that some of our more high profile guys checked out big time. You mentioned the talent between us and the Jags being equal by season end.........you think that's the case if Bess doesn't quit??....if Ward is still playing like a mad man??.....if Haden isn't taking plays off mentally??? I think those two go hand in hand. Some of these guys quit imo.........but I'll give you this one the team as a whole didn't quit.
On everything else we pretty much agree...........PM about BOB would love to know what you think. I love the guy's character and what he did for that crap hole there he inherited.............wish the Browns would give him a look, but I'm not hopeful
I'm not happy. I was actually trying very hard to be positive about the new regime. As a Browns fan, I wanted to believe in what they told me. But as evidenced with this firing, they lied to the fan base.
Making excuses for that is fine if you wish. But attacking posters and those who don't buy into it is outlandish at best. That's the only thing I find amusing about the entire situation.
If you don't share the views of those who are upset that's fine. But pretending they have no cause to be upset or are looking for excuses is ludicrous.
Quote: I'm not happy. I was actually trying very hard to be positive about the new regime. As a Browns fan, I wanted to believe in what they told me. But as evidenced with this firing, they lied to the fan base.
Making excuses for that is fine if you wish. But attacking posters and those who don't buy into it is outlandish at best. That's the only thing I find amusing about the entire situation.
If you don't share the views of those who are upset that's fine. But pretending they have no cause to be upset or are looking for excuses is ludicrous.
I think both Haslam and Banner were very clear they understood how fans would be upset, and they were as well.
They said they made a mistake. If you don't think they did, that's one thing......but correcting a mistake is the only action reasonable people do....right?
Quote: Question for the forum, not just Peen. Other than the Trent trade, what good decision has the front office made so far?
Was the Trent Richardson trade so brillant? Now that we held the coach accountable while giving him nothing to work with it looks more like a bad move. Did we have an adequate replacement or a plan in place?No
There have been 0 improvements made by this front office.
Actually they have made worse decisions than the previous 2 regimes!!!!
Quote: Question for the forum, not just Peen. Other than the Trent trade, what good decision has the front office made so far?
the hiring of the coaching staff.
people think they are putting me on blast for criticizing some of the coaching decisions made during the season, but they don't see that i actually supported Chud, Norv, and Ray the entire time.
to me, that was a dream team of coaches. my overall issue is with them was they were trying to hard to compensate for what was ultimately a lack of talent, so they called plays that normally should even be considered in certain situations.
not trading gordon. you see these posters saying they wouldn't lose sleep over gordon?
1564 yards. you think we win 4 games without Gordon? he was literally the only offense we had. so if 1564 is considered "quitting" then good god i wanna see that guy actually try. he put up megatron numbers, but nah, can't be happy with that.
Desmond bryant and kruger. kruger's numbers leaves me wanting, but overall, those guys were solid. kruger is so smart too. i think it was the NE game or the Jets game, they kept trying to do those WR bubble screens, and he batted the ball down back to back.
desmond bryant? enough said, that man was a straight up monster, and when he went down, so did our overall defense.
quentin groves i believe was a very underrated signing. he was up there in sacks with the rest of the team until he had the season ending injury.
i think overall, they handled the QB situation the best they could. once weeden went down, they really never wanted to play him, except when they absolutely had to. sucked for everybody.
so they have a ton of positives, its just they blew the major one with fans: trust.
Quote: Question for the forum, not just Peen. Other than the Trent trade, what good decision has the front office made so far?
Was the Trent Richardson trade so brillant? Now that we held the coach accountable while giving him nothing to work with it looks more like a bad move. Did we have an adequate replacement or a plan in place?No
There have been 0 improvements made by this front office.
Actually they have made worse decisions than the previous 2 regimes!!!!
IDK, getting a first rounder for a RB that is averaging 3 ypg seems like a decent deal.
Finding Hoyer was a good move imo.
Still they pulled some bad ones out too... Bess comes to mind.
Quote: Question for the forum, not just Peen. Other than the Trent trade, what good decision has the front office made so far?
Was the Trent Richardson trade so brillant? Now that we held the coach accountable while giving him nothing to work with it looks more like a bad move. Did we have an adequate replacement or a plan in place?No
There have been 0 improvements made by this front office.
Actually they have made worse decisions than the previous 2 regimes!!!!
IDK, getting a first rounder for a RB that is averaging 3 ypg seems like a decent deal.
Finding Hoyer was a good move imo.
Still they pulled some bad ones out too... Bess comes to mind.
Lets not forget the genius now picking the draft picks. Lombardi!!!! They will get nothing for him.
I think both Haslam and Banner were very clear they understood how fans would be upset, and they were as well.
They said they made a mistake. If you don't think they did, that's one thing......but correcting a mistake is the only action reasonable people do....right?
I simply don't buy into how they could come to such a conclusion based on several factors. For one, they said this year would be an evaluation year.
As it turns out, the evaluation shows conclusively that we have no running game and no QB. I don't see how you can evaluate a HC that simply doesn't have an O that has the talent in the running game and passing game to score points.
They knew Chud was an OC and as such, I simply don't see how you can fire him or evaluate him so quickly considering the FO has not given him the weapons to succeed with.
If what they said was actually their belief, I think they were short sighted and that Chud took the blame in part, on things the FO itself didn't do. But that is how it's always worked in the NFL.
I mean, the FO isn't going to fire itself. I'm just not a big proponent of passing the buck to the next man down on the totem pole. And I believe this past years failure was as much on the FO not providing the weapons for Chud to succeed as anything else.
Which is why I thought this was premature. Had they given him time once they provided him with such weapons, I would feel differently. With a one year tenure with no O weapons, I don't believe anybody they hired would have stood a chance.
1.Trading TRich for a 1st was genius.....loved it 2. Signing Bryant 3. Signing Kruger who has been solid. 4. Bringing in Hoyer 5. Positioning in a pretty deep draft to have 10 picks.
They have done some things I don't agree with for sure, but all of these seem pretty solid to me.
Forgot about Baker....and Dion Lewis who I have always felt had a chance to be huge even before the Eagles drafted him. I hope he is healthy next year could be huge for us.
j/c After invoking the 24hr rule and thinking about this, I can't come up with an answer. WTF did Chud do to get fired? Seriously, did anyone see anything that resembled incompetence warranting termination of a 1st year coach? I'm not buying the reasons given by our triumvirate of evil. Granted, that decision and sitting for the press conference took balls, but what on earth was the real reason behind this?
Well well welllll...good to see U and BW ..I can't get this site at work due to the freaking firewall that sees this site as a game site? Kinda like the Browns. This thing spiraled out of control,,IMO BECAUSE of little talent where it needed to be(QB/RB/WR/OLINE) , the coaches did not adjust , and Horton alluded to it somewhat. Too many mishandles of the roster by some of the geniuses in the FO. BTW your last comment was on..there was a clash between Chud and the FO..they wanted certain player(s) cut/released(no accountability is what I read)and Chud didn't cut them. I read two were Weeden and Little.
Oh and I'm sure you are aware that they would not have done this had they not had a HC in mind..I've read some rumblings about it, but something should surface soon.
Whatever has happened, and I'm not sure we'll ever know, it's worth 20 to 30 million for them to make this move. They will have a lot of coaches to pay off before all is said and done.
That's a lot of cash for nothing, even to rich people.
Quote: I got a question for U ... u say this team quit ... well one of the biggest gripes about this teams performances is that they gave up leads in the 4th quarter ... well if the players quit on him ... WHY DID WE COME OUT OF THE GATE STRONG EVERY WEEK??? ... seriously .... did we get lucky every week to start games??? ... or did the players quit AFTER WE BUILT LEADS IN ALMOST EVERY GAME????? ... seems like an odd time to quit to me ... players usually don't quit WHEN THERE AHEAD .. THEY QUIT WHEN THERE BEHIND ...
I knew you were going to nail me on that one...lol...we've done this for to many years bro.....I know you like my wife...lol.
I wasn't referring to Gordon as I'm with you and think he's another prima-dona that could leave tomorrow and I wouldn't give a flying crap. I was referring more about guys like Bess (who just freaking quit completely), Ward, and at times Haden. These guys checked out weeks ago. The Jags??? Bro they had MJD, but he absolutely SUCKS at this point in his career and was every bit as bad as TRich. The Todman kid..........you really think he is a starter or significant contributor next year??? I don't. Oh and CH vs. Cambell is a push bro......both guys are journeyman who have done nothing to make one say they are the answer to squat. I think both of our lines are better than the Jags as far as talent, and as bad as I hate our secondary......loads better than the crap fest the Jags have.
You are right that the team didn't tank on Terry Robiskie type proportions...lol...but I believe whole heartedly that some of our more high profile guys checked out big time. You mentioned the talent between us and the Jags being equal by season end.........you think that's the case if Bess doesn't quit??....if Ward is still playing like a mad man??.....if Haden isn't taking plays off mentally??? I think those two go hand in hand. Some of these guys quit imo.........but I'll give you this one the team as a whole didn't quit.
On everything else we pretty much agree...........PM about BOB would love to know what you think. I love the guy's character and what he did for that crap hole there he inherited.............wish the Browns would give him a look, but I'm not hopeful
Diam likes yer wife? We have another alleged Andrew Byum in here? If U haven't heard that one it's a doozy.. How R those young ones of yours? I have a16 month daughter now..brings it to 4. BTW there was a huge discord about how the players were handled..there are some who are angered about the firing, others who are indifferent..Norv was irate from what I read. A lot of this falls on the guys there now, and some of it was Chud being inexoerienced as a HC Muh head is still swimming with all of this, because it's the same freaking thing every year..
since when does criticism and wanting somebody fired go hand and hand?
don't we do the same with players? nobody says they shouldn't start, just need to improve.
but it doesn't work that with with coaches?
YO, Look up a few posts and you'll see I DID respond to you..
What, is it that you think all I have to do all day is to respond to you? You just aren't that important in the big picture. Hell, not even in the little picture
maybe because you're saying crap that isn't true. my bad, i forgot, we make up stuff around here on this board.
The kids are fine...just turned 8. My boy was the MVP of the city football league here....he can sling it for an 8 year old...lol. I haven't heard the thing about Bynum...pm me.
The Browns are the Browns still unfortunately. I just watched the press conference and a few things stood out to me....
1. Haslem and Banner have balls to go through that PC because they knew they were going to get killed...good sign because it don't think Lerner ever had any.
2. I don't agree with the decision at all, but I do respect the fact that they had the stones to fire a guy they thought was a mistake hire.....oh and contrary to what was reported they did admit to it several times they screwed up.
3. Those are 2 arrogant people..lol. They are honestly oblivious how anyone could question their ability to bring in a top HC to this dumpster fire. I admire the confidence, but think they are sadly mistaken. I hope I'm wrong, but imagine we will get stuck with another no name OC/DC.
4. Haslem was visibly pissed when asked about the Fed stuff...lol. He isn't selling this team at all.
5. Finally, I like the fact that "excellence" is the new standard, but I hope Banner and Lombardi are held to the same standard if the next guy is a dud....not holding my breath.
Overall, what choice do we have but to hope they get it right?? I'm with Diam in believing these guys could theoretically hire a good HC, draft some good players with all those picks, and back into a good thing in spite of there previous screw ups.....we shall see. I'm rooting for them to no doubt.
Seems my kids find the Browns to be a laughing stock as they like different teams who I won't name right now.. Anyway the BOYS GOT HAMMERED at the PC..some of it is warranted, because the results are the same ole thing..only two winning seasons in 14 years and only 1 playoff appearance..stew on that for a while. Now they had to admit they got it wrong, but a lot were questioning when they brought Chud in..he was not the big splash they wanted. Plus the team did not improve in their mind , but I'm going to say this. They continued to let players go quickly before they could show in time whether they could contribute or not..it was a revolving door with the roster, the back end especially on offense. Heard a snipet the if Lombardo had more control they would have been more active in FA. They knew Saturday they were parting ways with Chud. Now the presser was as battle ridden as I've seen it even though some of it seemed over the top but at least they know their actions can be and will be questioned and no one is taking their word of mouth.. Lombardi is the one letting stuff be leaked out(I'm sure everyone knows that)..but dude is on notice. Heard Hasslehoff might add another piece to the FO , and if so it's because he was not able to be there full time..so he wants his eyes to be in there watching what the rest of the clan is doing. Something else..the in-fighting begin after the Jag loss and that's their name continues to be mentioned in their mouth. I am very concerned about how they proceed because as U know ,when U bring a new coach in , he wants his guys and his schemes to be used. And then theres the draft..until they get me in there running that, we're doomed I tell U..dooooomed..
I think the underlying reason is that if you would subject Banner, Lombardi and Haslam to the same critique as they offered for the firing of Chud, Banner and Lombardi would have been fired as well.
You can't fire the owner of course, but blaming the poor performance of this team on the coaching staff makes no sense at all. It does not pass the sniff test with the media, the players or the fans.
So yes, they got hammered, and they have to sit in the pile of crap that they have made for themselves.
Yep both of my boys think I'm nuts to be a Browns fan...lol.
Interesting tidbit about Jimmy bringing in eyes....that gives me hope he means what he says about accountability.....these guys better show progress this year or he will gut it IMO....and I don't want that no matter what my reservations are about Banner/Lombardi. Similar to my hesitations about Chud, I want these guys to be given a real opportunity to succeed.....that's my beef with Chud getting canned....he never got a shot to get better. I think Jimmy really wants a winner....I have no doubt about that. I do doubt whether he has any clue how to get there.........time will tell.
I can see the Jags loss being the one that gave them some pause....it did me as well. That team got better as the season went on and we did not.....no excuse for that even with the injuries. So Lombardi wanted to be more active in FA but Banner held him back????.... Hmmm would have figured to be the other way around
It all depends who they get..and I believe they will leak names to keep the one guy they want a secret..in fact they have 3 interviews coming up but the guy in Denver may not even after the Broncs are done . So if they get another clone of the type that has been in and out of Berea, yeah the only gutting will be Banner/Lombardo.
So you think the three coordinators leaked so far are cover??? I hope you are right on that one.
Good to talk to you again bro. I miss talking to guys like you, Diam, and Vers....could always tell me something I didn't know or help me look at something with a different set of eyes. I will try to be around more posting, but man between work, my kids, and my wife it's hard to post as much as we did 15 years ago..lol.....back then I was in my early 20s and now I'm pushing 40 with a mortgage and a SUV note.....lol.....but I will try to post more often.
At this point, im still livid over the chud firing....I really think chud could have succeeded here...he had a much better odds of that then the guys we have had previously...
Quote: Question for the forum, not just Peen. Other than the Trent trade, what good decision has the front office made so far?
They brought in Hoyer, Rainey, and Baker. There is three off the top of my head.
Rainey and Baker are good....?
Oh dear.... I really underestimated how bad we are. Also how was Kruger good? He was signed to get sacks and he didn't. Now with Desmond Bryant we have to worry about his heart. Also, people need to cool it with the Hoyer love. Dude was awful against Minnesota.
I have been biting my tongue till I cooled down a bit, but the current Browns players, former Browns players, and two agents I have talked to all think our front office is a joke. This is just pitiful for us loyal Browns fans
--The best part of the presser was Haslam's facial expressions. Seriously. If you mute the presser and just watch that you will be entertained for quite some time. It is must see TV. I am still laughing thinking of the different ones....the surprised face....the incredulous face....the red face...the smirk...the "you idiots" face....there are many more classics. I can just watch that over and over again.
--Haslam is very polished in a politician kind of way. I fear he's slick but absolutely dumb when it comes to football. Hell he just might be absolutely dumb in general.
--These guys still think they are the smartest guys in the room and everyone else is an idiot. Banner takes credit for Philly's success like he was the sole reason for it. He's almost as smooth as Haslam. He doesn't have as many faces though. Did I mention Haslam's many faces?
Quote: Forgot about Baker....and Dion Lewis who I have always felt had a chance to be huge even before the Eagles drafted him. I hope he is healthy next year could be huge for us.
Baker was brought in because Norv Turner knew him in San Diego and wanted him brought in here.
I don't know how much the front office had to do with him, other than to contact him and do the paperwork.
Dion Lewis looked good in preseason, but so did Weeden in a couple of games. We have no way of knowing how he would have looked once the real season started. Maybe he would have been a spark for the offense, and maybe he still will be. Maybe he'll flop. We can opine, but right now we don't know for sure.
Quote: Also, people need to cool it with the Hoyer love. Dude was awful against Minnesota.
Got to disagree... what was it, our second highest point total of the season, 3rd or 4th most passing yards, same for rushing yards.. we got a win.. when you ask a guy in the first start of his NFL career to throw it 50 times, you are going to get a few picks.. but he made enough plays to win the game.... You could tell he has more football sense than anybody else we have trotted out there in a long time...
We have a really good TE, we have (had) an OC that loves to use the TE... Not surprising that Cameron had 4 of his 7 TDs this year in two games with Hoyer...
I'm not proclaiming him the savior, but the guy made more plays in a couple games than we've seen in a long time and he deserves another look.
Hoyer was OK against the Vikings, but he also got away with a lot of mistakes. The Vikings dropped, IIRC, 3 or 4 passes that pretty much hit them right in the hands. The Vikings defense was flat out awful this year as well. We had another special teams play that led to the special teams TD pass by Lanning.
He was better against the Bengals, even though it was against backups in the secondary. he was more consistent with his throws.
Rishuz, The reason why Banner has those looks is because back in Philly, he was terrible in the media and the owner Laurie kept him out of the press. Also, Banner was Laurie's money man, Banner was not the head talent, coach, team organizer, just the guy handling the money. SO all this talk coming from him is crap! Google Joe Banner and see what comes up.
He pissed off more players and eventually lost out to Andy Reid. So was not as involved in the player on field evaluation/usage as he was the one who negotiated the contracts.
Haslam thinks he is slick but he probably was not as involved in Pittsburgh as he THOUGHT he was
Quote: I'm not happy. I was actually trying very hard to be positive about the new regime. As a Browns fan, I wanted to believe in what they told me. But as evidenced with this firing, they lied to the fan base.
Making excuses for that is fine if you wish. But attacking posters and those who don't buy into it is outlandish at best. That's the only thing I find amusing about the entire situation.
If you don't share the views of those who are upset that's fine. But pretending they have no cause to be upset or are looking for excuses is ludicrous.
I think both Haslam and Banner were very clear they understood how fans would be upset, and they were as well.
They said they made a mistake. If you don't think they did, that's one thing......but correcting a mistake is the only action reasonable people do....right?
I do not recall either of them verbally admitting a mistake. I do recall Banner saying "the FO had the needle pointed in the right direction." Listening/(watching) to their presser it is damn near verbatim to the PC after the Shurmur fire. Color me unimpressed with their actions but, they do hit on the key sales points in their press conferences.
Time will..…again, tell the story. I'm baffled that a business is able to sell a product that is so putrid year after year after year to folks. The Browns are the the ultimate success story….a quality product is not necessary to make money hand over fist on the vague promise of hope and dreams, and just rather appeal to the fans emotions.
Most of my comments should be j/c.. Peen (not directed at you)
I'm an old guy too Peen, and it still very much frosts my sack. I can live with another coaching change, I've grown numb to those; but the cancer is at the helm IMO. There are a billion reasons why Haslam is staying but the other two rats need to be run into the sewers.
This is my first post since the story broke. Whenever something like this hits, I like to take a step back and a deep breath. I did that again this time. And I am perfectly calm as I write this.
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It seems like the only thing the Browns are any good at is playing out some foolish soap opera every off season. New names at the top, same old story. The stench of the Holmgren era is barely out of my nostrils, and I'm starting to detect a 'stink' about these guys, too.
I wasn't thrilled when this brain trust was assembled in the first place. I made a vow to myself to be open-minded about them. Then, a coaching staff was assembled that made me think something positive might come. TRich trade: after my initial shock wore off, I could even get with that. I was starting to come around. Now, I simply don't know what to think. It's makin'' my head hurt.
You guys all know me by now. You know I hate this administrative crap above all other things. The constant turnover in personnel. Seeing vets 'age out' without ever getting a sniff at The Tournament. Breaking stories of behind closed-doors dysfunction. Mid-season trade rumors. Power plays, desperation drafts, cap hell issues, it just never, ever freakkin' ends. Dysfunction truly is the most consistent trait this organization has ever shown.
I don't have any faith at all that these current guys are going to be any better than what we've always seen. If I were subject to "X-Files" type paranoia, I might consider that 76 Groza sits atop some ancient burial site, and the reallly bad JuJu won't ever leave.
My wife is a big fan of Days Of Our Lives. That's what these guys have become for me. I've really lost a lot of my enthusiasm for this team over the years, and sometimes they make me feel like those sad addicts who no longer get any pleasure from their drug of choice... they just do it now to feel a sense of dull normality.
For some reason the Browns' offseason can never just be about calmly assessing and retooling, all oars pulling together. You know- professionalism? Nope. It's always Opie/Collins, Opie/Romeo, Butch's 3/4 of a season, Kokinis... always something that's not actually on the field on Sundays, yet always something almost tailor-made to keep the product crappy.
I'll be as honest as I can right now: I come here mainly because it's been a pretty welcoming place for me. I come to interact with you guys, and I feel as if I've found a community I can be a part of. That's pretty much the best thing I've gotten from the Browns since '99... and I'm convinced it's good because it runs independently of 76 Groza- or they'd mess us up, too. I now get more enjoyment from talking with real people about this fake Soap Opera of a football team than I do from the actual product that brought us all together. And that's a shame.
An entire-half century of fan loyalty is in danger of evaporating because of something as pathetic as ennui... and it's not my fault. I did my freakkin' job.
And you know what? It isn't even these particular guys who have done this to me... it's been all of them. From Clark/Policy right on up to 'Hazmat 2013.'
This fandom of mine for the Browns feels very different than the fandom I felt as a kid and young man. This one feels more like an abusive, one-sided relationship with a perennially self-destructive screw up of a mate. No joy. Just drama. And angst. And waiting. And promises of "I'll be better-" I hated seeing those kind of women portrayed in those '40's movies, and now I'm married to a team that acts just like them.
I'm about a half-step away from cuttin' this bitch loose. 2014 is her last f'in chance with me. I'm too old to keep getting played for a fool.
Very good points Clem, I always love reading your contributions. Sad it has to be on this note, just wanted you to know I feel frustrated and confused too
Quote: .... they make me feel like those sad addicts who no longer get any pleasure from their drug of choice... they just do it now to feel a sense of dull normality.
That right there is one perfect analogy for a Browns fan.
Great post! Some of the same thoughts I been having. Although not a fan for 50 years I have been a fan for about 36 years. I have found that over the last two years I have been drawn more to college football as i don't really have a favorite team. I find I am getting more enjoyment out not having to watch a bad team play a sub par game just because they are "my team". I am trying to remain interested but another 4-12 year next season may just about do it for me.
I wonder if we could make a poll in the K-9 Consensus Forum that asks how people feel about where this team will be in 2 or 3 years and then archive it? Is that possible?
Almost to man, every one of you think that this FO and ownership is guaranteed to fail. That's fine and you may be right. However, I have noticed how many posters now say they never liked The Big Show or that they never liked trading up for TRich or they thought the Weeden pick was horrible.
I certainly don't remember too many people ever feeling that way. In fact, I typically felt on an island when arguing w/other posters about those guys.
So, it would be nice to have some accountability for all of these hateful and spiteful comments.
Clem, I couldn't have possibly said it better myself.
We're enabling this thing by our support. We go to the games, buy the licensed products, watch it on TV. We make this horror show possible because we are loyal fans of a team that ceased to exist many years ago. Haslam isn't going to pay much attention until the money starts drying up.
I can see a change in me. My wife offers to buy tickets to a game, I respond "don't bother". I'll turn on a game on TV for maybe a quarter if I'm not doing something else. The only jersey I still own is an old Jim Brown throwback that has not been worn in two years or so. Another season or two of this and I'll be cured.
I know the 2014 Browns are yet another dead on arrival team but somehow I cling to this irrational bit of hope. Yet another rebuild. Yet another "new look". A couple new QB's to toss into the chipper. Hey, when is draft day again?
Banner: We didn't see improvement from the beginning of the season to the end, even though we brought in good talent, so we fired the coach.
And, Banner again: You can't judge us (the 3 stooges) on the talent we brought in because a lot of the players were injured, so we need to wait to judge us (the 3 stooges) until those players can play. It will take a year or 2.
Quote: Clem, I couldn't have possibly said it better myself.
We're enabling this thing by our support. We go to the games, buy the licensed products, watch it on TV. We make this horror show possible because we are loyal fans of a team that ceased to exist many years ago. Haslam isn't going to pay much attention until the money starts drying up.
I can see a change in me. My wife offers to buy tickets to a game, I respond "don't bother". I'll turn on a game on TV for maybe a quarter if I'm not doing something else. The only jersey I still own is an old Jim Brown throwback that has not been worn in two years or so. Another season or two of this and I'll be cured.
I know the 2014 Browns are yet another dead on arrival team but somehow I cling to this irrational bit of hope. Yet another rebuild. Yet another "new look". A couple new QB's to toss into the chipper. Hey, when is draft day again?
I hope the stadium is empty next season.
I have to wonder how many college kids are hoping they don't get drafted by the browns this year.
Quote: I think the underlying reason is that if you would subject Banner, Lombardi and Haslam to the same critique as they offered for the firing of Chud, Banner and Lombardi would have been fired as well.
You can't fire the owner of course, but blaming the poor performance of this team on the coaching staff makes no sense at all. It does not pass the sniff test with the media, the players or the fans.
So yes, they got hammered, and they have to sit in the pile of crap that they have made for themselves.
And he only thing that can pull them out of the crapper is a winning season. Because they said it, Winning is all that matters. They said it by firing Chud.
So, when they hire a new HC and we don't win, then yeah, Banner and Lombardi should be fired. They set the ground rules. They set the Criteria by which everyone connected to the performance of the team should be judged.
This past Sunday was the first time in years that I did not watch a single second of the game. I was DVR'ing it, checked the score, saw we were losing, and didn't even bother.
And I don't mind one bit.
My fear for this team isn't that it will be moved again. It's that people are getting to the point that we won't care if it gets moved again.
Banner said he has already begun making calls to find a prospective NFL ownership group that would be interested in buying a franchise or setting up a franchise in another city.
When asked if that could include the possible franchise in Los Angeles, Banner said he would be “open to L.A. I don’t want to single them out, but that’s something I think I can do – set up a franchise, help build a stadium, hire a coach, hire good people to build a a winning organization.”
Banner looked so uneasy during the presser and, at times, had so much difficulty responding, that I was concerned for his health. I thought he was either going to breakdown or have a heart attack. I really could barely watch, I was so uncomfortable. It looked like the stress level is really getting to him...
Quote: Banner said he has already begun making calls to find a prospective NFL ownership group that would be interested in buying a franchise or setting up a franchise in another city.
When asked if that could include the possible franchise in Los Angeles, Banner said he would be “open to L.A. I don’t want to single them out, but that’s something I think I can do – set up a franchise, help build a stadium, hire a coach, hire good people to build a a winning organization.”
Banner looked so uneasy during the presser and, at times, had so much difficulty responding, that I was concerned for his health. I thought he was either going to breakdown or have a heart attack. I really could barely watch, I was so uncomfortable. It looked like the stress level is really getting to him...
That's what happens when you think you are smarter than everyone else and come crashing back down to earth.
Quote: Banner said he has already begun making calls to find a prospective NFL ownership group that would be interested in buying a franchise or setting up a franchise in another city.
When asked if that could include the possible franchise in Los Angeles, Banner said he would be “open to L.A. I don’t want to single them out, but that’s something I think I can do – set up a franchise, help build a stadium, hire a coach, hire good people to build a a winning organization.”
I don't know why you would post this... it was from June of 2012. Are you suggesting that he and Haslam have the intention of moving the franchise to LA?
Like a lot of stuff posted on here the last two days this is another example of someone misrepresenting facts to make an argument/case against the organization. What bugs me is there is a million things we could nail the FO on right now.....why make stuff up?? It isn't like they are making it hard for us to come up with legitimate reasons......serving them up on a plate for goodness sakes.
Quote: Like a lot of stuff posted on here the last two days this is another example of someone misrepresenting facts to make an argument/case against the organization. What bugs me is there is a million things we could nail the FO on right now.....why make stuff up?? It isn't like they are making it hard for us to come up with legitimate reasons......serving them up on a plate for goodness sakes.
Care to explain what fact I misrepresented? I have no idea to what you are referring...
There was a previous post about how not supporting the team financially could lead to the team moving as they did before.
While I'm certainly not trying to say that's the plan or intent of this FO, I don't see it as out of the realm of possibility.
I guess I'm just pretty much agreeing with the poster that indicated that if the team isn't supported, it is possible that it could be moved again.
That's the catch 22 that is the NFL. No matter how bad your team is, no matter how poorly they perform...... Pay up to keep them or else you might loose them. Not such a comforting thought.
In reality, as much as people say we as fans have a voice with the almighty dollar, we really don't.
Quote: I guess I'm just pretty much agreeing with the poster that indicated that if the team isn't supported, it is possible that it could be moved again.
That's not only possible, but perhaps likely. I'm certain that there are other creative ways to express the dissatisfaction...
Quote: I guess I'm just pretty much agreeing with the poster that indicated that if the team isn't supported, it is possible that it could be moved again.
That's not only possible, but perhaps likely. I'm certain that there are other creative ways to express the dissatisfaction...
i think the lions fans did it best.
show up to every game with paper bags on their face. you know every game the cameras are gonna zoom in on that, especially nationally televised games. the message would spread even harder.
Quote: I guess I'm just pretty much agreeing with the poster that indicated that if the team isn't supported, it is possible that it could be moved again.
That's not only possible, but perhaps likely. I'm certain that there are other creative ways to express the dissatisfaction...
i think the lions fans did it best.
show up to every game with paper bags on their face. you know every game the cameras are gonna zoom in on that, especially nationally televised games. the message would spread even harder.
But, but, but..........that might hurt jimmies feelings, and then he'd move the team.
No, what we have to do is support a billionaire regardless. That way he'll feel good. We can't ask him questions, or demand his respect..........we need to put up or shut up.
But, we certainly can't take him to task on his word........he might get his wittle feelings hurt.......AFTER he takes the city of Cleveland and county of Cuyahoga to the cleaners.
Nope - here it is: I would only expect he and banner and lombardi to hold themselves to the same time schedule they gave Chud.
Banner himself said "hey, we brought in the talent"..........and then later he said "hey, much of the talent we brought in got hurt, so you can't judge me on that until they've played a few years."
Nope - here it is: I would only expect he and banner and lombardi to hold themselves to the same time schedule they gave Chud.
Banner himself said "hey, we brought in the talent"..........and then later he said "hey, much of the talent we brought in got hurt, so you can't judge me on that until they've played a few years."
I said this when Tom Heckert was let go last year: Get ready for a really bad stretch of football.
Because we were in such a good run of football...
Crap is gonna smell, no matter who is doing it.
Come on man, have a little insight as to what I'm saying. Sure, football has been bad around here for well over a decade. However, Tom Heckert drafted several guys who are going to the pro-bowl this year, and several others who are really good players. Some of the guys he drafted include: Joe Haden, TJ Ward, Jabaal Sheard, Phil Taylor, and Josh Gordon. - Name one GM we've had that has drafted that many good players in that small of a block of time. . Granted, Heckert wasn't perfect (Richardson, Weeden) but he had some success here. Now look at what we have now- Joe Banner and Mike Lombardi. - Look at their first draft - could go down as the worst in the history of the franchise. Again, Joe Banner and Mike Lombardi's first draft could go down as the worst in the history of the franchise. . . . And why are we supposed to believe that ensuing drafts under this management group are going to be any better? You may have some optimism and confidence, and some other people may feel the same way you do. However, I'm going back to my original assertion that this will be the worst stretch of football we have seen, and like you noted, coming from a Browns fan, that is one heck of an assertion. Unlike what we had with Heckert and Shurmer, where the play on the field was bad, now the play on the field will be bad, the drafts will be really bad, and the personnel decisions will be ridiculously bad. As you may have noticed, under Banner and Lombardi, the draft has started out awful, the play has been awful, and the personnel decisions have been awful and embarrassing. - Look at the mockery these guys made of the running back position this year. - Look at how they handled a first year head coach whom they claimed to have done extensive research on prior to his hiring. As Browns fans, we're used to bad. Now we are going to have to get used to really, really, bad. - It's already happening.
Good news is, I have been encouraging my daughter to root for either the Packers or 49ers - whichever she prefers. In the near future, I'll be buying her a hat and t-shirt for one of these respectful organizations. What I won't do is encourage her to root for the Browns.
Quote: So you think the three coordinators leaked so far are cover??? I hope you are right on that one.
Good to talk to you again bro. I miss talking to guys like you, Diam, and Vers....could always tell me something I didn't know or help me look at something with a different set of eyes. I will try to be around more posting, but man between work, my kids, and my wife it's hard to post as much as we did 15 years ago..lol.....back then I was in my early 20s and now I'm pushing 40 with a mortgage and a SUV note.....lol.....but I will try to post more often.
Yes it's hard for me to post in the evening,with 4 young ones and my wife works 2nd shift..and I have meetings to attend ..and like I said the work security allows me to view other sites but not this one and Draft Express(NBA). As it was let out the leaks about interviews will come out except the one ...they wanted to keep things secret until a new guy was hired. But it appears with Obrien going to Texas, there's McDaniels, Add Gus Malzahn (Auburn) very much a top candidate for CLE. Vandy's James Franklin ..and guess who spit that out? La Canfora..or the parrot... It's making my head spin..
Larry, Curly and Moe will be holding a press conference at 12:30 to express how much it galls them to be compared to the same old Browns' management of Jimmy,Joe and Mike.
I've heard of Coaches losing the locker room. Jimmy Haslam may be the first owner to lose the locker room by firing his coach after less than a year on the job. Haslam's hissy fit firing left the team and the town shocked and annoyed.
According to Haslam and team CEO, Joe Banner, Chudzinski was fired because they believe the team did not look better as the season progressed. Then they should have fired the marketing director for giving them brown pants to wear instead of the orange 80's era pants.
First the New England refs moved the goal posts on Chud, taking a Browns win away and giving it to the Patriots. Then Haslam and Banner moved the goal posts on Chud, taking away his job and likely giving it to Patriots O.C. Josh McDaniels.
If the Banner Browns standard is that the coach must show improvement when given no QB or running back to play along side free agent and draft busts and only one offensive threat, who they considered trading, then Jimmy Haslam is going to go thru one and done coaches like he went thru bottled water at the news conference.
When the Banner Browns shrugged off the 2013 draft they sent a clear message to the team and the town that this year was going to be write off. They reinforced that message when they traded Trent Richardson without a viable replacement. They reinforced that message when they didn't sign a real fullback or a backup QB early, when injuries were piling up. They stacked the deck against Chud, then scapegoated him when the shoddy hand he was dealt payed off like Pilot Flying J scam rebates.
To use Jimmy's two favorite words... candidly, it's galling to hear Haslam say the new Coach will be given everything he needs to succeed, because Chud clearly wasn't. The most important need, besides a healthy QB not named Weeden, being time.
Despite the record and roster full of holes I would argue Chud's team did show improvement. When they had good QB play against the Ravens, Patriots and in other close games, the team looked vastly improved over last year. The stats and game tape show Gordon and Cameron had dramatically better years under Chud's and Turners coaching.
Remember Banner considered trade offers for Josh Gordon. Without him, what would Chuds record have been? Would those close games even be close? And Chud's the problem? Really Jimmy, Candidly? Maybe it's the first guy you hired not the first coach you fired.
Banner pointed to the performance of other first year Coaches. It should be noted that the Browns either passed on hiring those coaches,were rejected by them or didn't interview them at all. All of those Coaches had teams either with overall better talent and/or better QB's.
Banner urged fans to consider his and Jimmy Haslam's past track records. Ok, fair enough. Joe Banner was the money-cap guru for the Eagles during their long successful run that continues without him. Andy Reid was the football guru during the Eagles long successful run, not Banner.
Haslam was briefly a minority owner with the Steelers with no reported involvement with personnel or football decisions. Otherwise, in a different era, he may have fired Chuck Noll for winning one game his first year. That's the extent of Haslam's NFL football track record.
Haslam's management track record is running a truck stop empire, built by his father, that is the subject of an ongoing federal investigation for defrauding customers of millions of dollars.
As of October, 11 Pilot Flying J employees have agreed to cooperate with investigators. 7 have agreed to plead guilty, 4 have been given immunity deals. Prosecutors continue investigate and negotiate plea deals as they work their way up Pilot Flying J's corporate ladder to upper management executives who have retained criminal defense attorneys.
I wonder what those Federal prosecutors thought when they saw Jimmy Haslam at the presser, with a slight smile on his face declare that "We've"(Haslams?, Pilot?) done nothing wrong and imply that the situation is winding down and he expects a successful outcome. So did another Jimmy, named Dimora.
When asked if a year from now, he expects to still be sitting at a podium as the owner of the Browns, Haslam gave a carefully worded answer that the team would be a Haslam family asset for a long time to come. That's not the same as saying that he would still be the controlling owner of the team, firing coaches who don't beat the Jets and Jaguars.
So yes, Joe Banner, Jimmy's track record's being checked by both the fans and the feds. So far, he has shown success in hiring employees who turned out to be crooks who cop plea deals to scamming the same kind of folks who once filled Browns stadium on snowy Sundays.
As a Cleveland native, I've lived thru the highs and lows of the Browns for the past 50 years. Haslam and Banner vowed to return stability and respect to the organization. So far, they've succeeded in doing what I once thought was unthinkable, making me miss Art Modell and Randy Lerner. This city deserves better from the NFL.
You may wish to question the name calling, rightfully so, but now it has been plastered across their foreheads.
The content of the article points to why their logic was superficial at best, and more plausibly a contrived talking point used to avoid the real explanation.
Vers, I'm not upset because we fired a 4-12 coach. I'm upset because the only normalcy in Cleveland has been dysfunction. Losing constantly, changing alignments constantly, rebuilding every 2 years, finding ways to suck defeat from victory, alienating the fanbase in weird and perverse ways is all we have known since this franchise has returned.
I do agree with you 4-12 is not the mark of a winner. Firing a coach after one year however is not status quo in the NFL. The only time Cleveland deviates from the norm of losing is to boggle the mind of the fanbase and draw the laughs of the NFL at large. This year it's Chud's firing, last year it's drafting Weeden at 22, year before that was hiring Pat Shurmer, I can keep going back but you get the picture.
I'm still a fan, always will be. I really hope these guys get it right because simply put we have no other choice. Just understand that the emotion you're seeing right now is because we see this merry go round being reset yet again... hoping this time will be better.
So far the only deviations from the NFL norm this FO has taken have been:
Trading T Rich
Firing Chud.
Based on the massive success of the first move I am willing to give them the benefit of doubt on the second.
Hidden in these reports are two telling arguments that also fit this model:
The FO wanted to cut Little and Weeden. Allegedly Chud resisted the idea.
Who would argue that would not be an interesting idea? It would massively deviate from NFL norms and could have had a dramatic effect on this team this season. I would also have liked to see Bess cut.
Edit: They also attempted (Desperately) to sign Chip Kelly. Which at the time he was considered a very risky transition to the NFL game. He seems to be working out well for Philly.
I loved. I swear to you. Loved the Chud / Turner combination. I have openly stated numerous times I would give Chud 10 years regardless of his efficacy.
At the same time. I do not care about the coach. I care about the player quality. Specifically the quarterback.
I do not think Chud did a bad job. I also do not believe doing a bad job is the only reason you should fire someone. If they just plain didn't like the guy they can fire him if they want. If they prefer some other coach and felt they settled with Chud then they can fire him. All of these are perfectly acceptable reasons to me.
They own and run the team, not the fans, not the media, not what modern convention dictates, and they are completely free and justified in doing what they think is right.
Time will tell if they made the right call. My opinion is that it will not matter who the coach is if we have a quality QB. My only preference is that the coach treat the players as adults and be willing to sever ties with any player who sucks regardless of their place on the depth chart or draft position.
Quote: So leave. It's real simple. You DO NOT HAVE TO BE A FAN!
God............how long are you guys going to cry about a guy who went 4 and 12?
We've heard your opinion. You've heard others opinions.......and your answer is "so leave"???????
Really? Is it only your opinion that matters? Fans aren't allowed to voice their opinion unless it toes the company line? Really?
To pull a page out of banner, haslem, and vers's playbook; Those boys get this year. If they don't have it right, I pity them. They'll be sleeping in the bed they made - yes, you also.
The media can say what it wants, I don't care. I was a Browns fan yesterday, am a Browns fan today, and will be a Browns fan tomorrow. That's the beginning and end of it for me.
gage, I understand where you are coming from. I really do. I have many of the same feelings. It's frustrating. It's deflating. I just don't like this mob mentality and the woe is me crap.
Furthermore, if I am a guy looking to get a HC job, I am not sure I want to come to a city where the local media refers to the top brass as The Three Stooges and the fan base is as hateful as this one is.
This is the same media that slaughtered Belichick daily in the papers and on the radio and the same fan base that hung dummies that resembled BB in the stands. I think we should give these guys the same amount of time the previous regime got before we go crazy.
Oh........and this isn't to you, but I am not asking anyone to leave. I don't care. My point is that if you really hate the team this much, why stick around and make yourself miserable? It's not like being a kid who has abusive parents and you have to stay. You are free to quit rooting for the team. Why torture yourself?
I post this article because I thought the part I highlighted was funny given recent events.
Cleveland Browns receive permission to interview Patriots' Josh McDaniels, Seahawks' Dan Quinn and Cardinals' Todd Bowles; Quinn reportedly set for Wednesday
Print Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group By Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group Follow on Twitter on December 31, 2013 at 7:06 PM, updated January 01, 2014 at 8:10 AM
CLEVELAND -- The Browns have received permission to interview Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, Seahawks defensive coordinator Dan Quinn and Cardinals defensive coordinator Todd Bowles, for their head coaching vacancy, league sources told cleveland.com.
McDaniels, a Canton, O. native, and Quinn are on playoff byes, and can be interviewed by Sunday, when the wildcard games are over.
Quinn set to meet with Browns officials Wednesday in Seattle, according to ESPN's Adam Schefter.
Bowles, the former Browns defensive backs coach, is not in the playoffs and can be interviewed at any time. The Vikings have also received permission to interview Quinn and Bowles, who satisfies the NFL's Rooney Rule, which stipulates a team must interview at least one minority candidate before making a hire.
One potential candidate is off the list for the Browns: former Penn State coach Bill O'Brien, who interviewed with the Browns last year, agreed to terms Tuesday night to come head coach of the Houston Texans.
As for McDaniels, Patriots coach Bill Belichick declined to comment Tuesday during a press conference on the possibility of his top offensive lieutenant leaving the Patriots to coach his hometown team.
"I'm not going to get into any of that,'' Belichick said. "There are procedures for that in the league."
But Patriots quarterback Tom Brady made it clear he wants McDaniels, the former Broncos head coach, to stay put.
"Josh is the best offensive coach I could ever imagine," Brady told WEEI-FM Tuesday. "He's so prepared; he's so confident in what he does. He figures out a way every week to get us in the best position as players to win. I have so much respect for him and what he does for me, what he does for our team. He's just a great coach."
With McDaniels as his position coach for seven seasons, Brady made five Pro Bowls, including this year's. Brady also won one of his three Super Bowls with McDaniels as his quarterbacks coach. McDaniels also won three Super Bowls in New England, but in other assistant roles.
Under McDaniels' tutelage, Brady earned NFL MVP honors in 2007 and broke the NFL record for touchdown passes in a season (50). He also led the league in both passing yards (4,806) and passer rating (117.2). Brady also set franchise marks in nearly every major passing category, while receiver Wes Welker set the franchise record for receptions in a season (112) and receiver Randy Moss broke the NFL record for touchdown receptions with 23. The Patriots offense also posted the franchise's highest average yards per rush in 22 seasons with 4.1 yards per carry and the team's 17 rushing touchdowns were the second highest total in the previous 20 years.
"He's got a lot of poise, got a lot of discipline,'' said Brady. "I hope he doesn't go anywhere. I mean, I'd love for him to coach me the rest of my life. But that's just the way it is. He's one of my best friends, and I love having him."
If the Browns hire McDaniels, they'll have to explain why they think he can be successful after his 5-17 slide over his final 22 games in Denver.
The Browns fired Chudzinski because he didn't show improvement down the stretch, losing 10 of his last 11 games.
Broncos owner Pat Bowlen said some of the same things about McDaniels when he fired him after a 3-9 start in 2010 as Jimmy Haslam and Joe Banner did about Chudzinski Monday.
At the time, McDaniels, had an 11-17 record in his one-plus seasons. He started off 6-0 in 2009, but finished 8-8 after a late-season skid. His second season was also marred by a videotaping scandal that ultimately led to his firing.
McDaniels was initially unaware that Broncos video coordinator Steve Scarnecchia taped a portion of the San Francisco 49ers' walkthrough Oct. 30, 2010 in London, but he failed to report the incident after learning of it later. McDaniels and the Broncos were fined $50,000, and McDaniels lost his job not long thereafter.
He also clashed with then quarterback Jay Cutler, tight end Tony Scheffler and defensive coordinator Mike Nolan.
"In the end, I was not satisfied with the results and the direction this team was headed,'' Bowlen said in a statement at the time. "The decision to make a change was extremely difficult but one that needed to be made for this organization and our fans.
"Everyone, myself included, is accountable for our disappointing season and is now responsible for restoring the culture of winning that has been established by this franchise," he said in a statement. "Our entire organization is completely focused on returning to the level of prosperity that our fans expect and deserve from the Denver Broncos."
Shortly after McDaniels was fired, Browns general manager Mike Lombardi, who was with NFL Network at the time, wrote for nfl.com that the Broncos didn't provide "enough time for the team to be fully developed, or enough time for McDaniels to grow into the job."
Lombardi has a longstanding relationship with McDaniels from Lombardi's close association with Belichick and the Patriots.
While McDaniels has been characterized as the Browns frontrunner, a source stressed that all of the candidates are viewed equally at this point.
Quinn presides over a Seahawks defense that allowed the fewest yards (273.6) and points this season 14.4. The Seahawks are tied for eighth in the NFL with 44 sacks. Quinn, who began his career primarily as a defensive line coach, has also coached with the 49ers, Dolphins, Jets and at the University of Florida. He's also being pursued by some of the other four teams that fired their coaches Monday.
Bowles was a rising star on the Butch Davis' staff here from 2001-2004, part of a staff that led the Browns to their only playoff appearance of the new era following a 9-7 record in 2002.
Bowles, who was coordinator in Philadelphia in 2012, took over for Ray Horton as coordinator in Arizona under new coach Bruce Arians this year and helped guide the team to a 11-5 mark. Bowles' defense finished sixth in the NFL.
Well Vers, it's because they love this team that they are miserable. Honestly, with what we have been through with this team, who can fault anyone for the myriad of feelings and reactions to them. I disliked the last group and this new one has done very little to impress me. I can only hope they can change my mind about them at this point.
Whether they cut Chud too soon and didn't allow him to grow and develop, or they picked the wrong guy, this is still on them. I still don't understand how you can expect more wins from him with him being a first time head coach, the QB carousel, the lack of a running game, etc. If the players quit on him, I suppose that would be a big part of it, but I do think that is a difficult thing to judge, and people throw that around too much. I don't know, maybe they did quit.
Anyway, good riddance to another crap ass year from this team. I wish I could muster up the energy to care more, but that is long past for me.
Just to address your thought that the media and fan atmosphere could affect the Browns' ability to find their man ... I hate to be Captain Obvious or Captain Cliche, but there are only 32 of these jobs available and the pay is very good. Even Chud, bad as I feel for him personally, is walking away with a $10.5M ego massage. We will find a coach.
Ditto the free agents - if the money is green they will come here for it, national perceptions be damned.
Vers what you don't seam to realize is that many of us can't quit rooting for the team. It's in our heart, in our soul, it's a agape love that we have for the team.
Shortly after McDaniels was fired, Browns general manager Mike Lombardi, who was with NFL Network at the time, wrote for nfl.com that the Broncos didn't provide "enough time for the team to be fully developed, or enough time for McDaniels to grow into the job."
Lmao and smh.
So, lets say Mcdaniels is the new coach, went 3-13. I'll put the bank on bet that he wont be fired because he didnt have time to develop, sigh.
I couldn't get any calmer...I actually need to get excited...having a hard time doing that...
Chud got fired... and he doesn't have to work due to the millions he will make.. So I guess his future looks pretty exciting... I bet he's calm...
Here's why I'm calm...When I was young and had a 4 wheeler...there was this crazy hill and when you hit the top you could fly high and far... and that was exciting as hell...
But after a while that hill wasn't so exciting anymore... because i always knew what to expect...And I always landed in the same spot... So what did I do ? I went searching for another hill....
I assume we know most of Chuds future at this point.....
The question now should be...Whats our future ? Hopefully something that will bring excitement and have it last for sometime... Guess it's time to go searching again...
That's a good explanation, gage, but I do understand Versatile's point and quite frankly, that of the front office.
Versatile isn't going to sweat the firing of a 4 wins, 12 losses, HC. Everyone seems to be thinking that this is unprecedented in some way. It isn't.
The front office explained to the public that the team regressed during the season. Maybe that isn't purely Chudzinski's fault, but he is the one that takes the blame. If Chudzinski isn't the one to take the blame, then who is? He's the one that's ultimately responsible for how the team performs on the field. Was it Horton that let him down by not getting the defense properly prepared? Was it Turner that let him down by not getting the offense to respond and score enough? Was it a lack of effort by the players?
The only fault that you could realistically place at the feet of Jimmy Haslam and Joe Banner is that they're responsible for hiring Chudzinski in the first place.
The team seemed to respond to Hoyer as the QB after Weeden was injured. Then, after Hoyer went down, the air went out of the team. It was up to the HC and coordinators to get the team to respond and they failed. In most of the games, the Browns would play well enough in the first half to have the lead and then would completely collapse both offensively and defensively in the second half of games. That's what I think they found unacceptable.
The team was in the position to win games and they let them slip away. They let up points just before halftime to allow opponents to change the momentum in their favor. They let games slip away late.
Quote: Whether they cut Chud too soon and didn't allow him to grow and develop, or they picked the wrong guy, this is still on them.
That's true. If it's the latter, then isn't acknowledging that and firing him the right move? Fans could still be legitimately upset that 'another year' was wasted with them hiring Chudzinski as the HC.
Quote: I still don't understand how you can expect more wins from him with him being a first time head coach, the QB carousel, the lack of a running game, etc.
I think they expected it because they brought in two highly respected coordinators to help him. It didn't happen that way. Wasn't Horton thought of by some to be a HC candidate himself? And Turner was a HC. They should have been able to help him more but didn't. Is that on them or on Chudzinski?
Quote: If the players quit on him, I suppose that would be a big part of it, but I do think that is a difficult thing to judge, and people throw that around too much. I don't know, maybe they did quit.
Well, it seems that from where Haslam sits (and he's got a pretty good seat), things weren't right with the team.
Quote: Anyway, good riddance to another crap ass year from this team. I wish I could muster up the energy to care more, but that is long past for me.
Looking forward to the draft already or is it too early?
I think Haslem and Banner screwed the pooch by being so ill prepared for that press conference, as the lies and contradictions were blatant. If they would have just put out a 3 point statement that:
-they felt we regressed as the season progressed
-the team didn't perform to their talent level
-the team lacked motivation to play 60 minutes of football.....a change was deemed necessary.
This would have been much more palatable to the fans than the BS they spewed in that press conference. I think after letting this sink in, a lot of the fans would have come to the conclusion that they weren't going to accept poor performance and will act promptly....just as they did with the Trich trade. Their arrogance and BS bit them in the arse.
Quote: I think Haslem and Banner screwed the pooch by being so ill prepared for that press conference, as the lies and contradictions were blatant. If they would have just put out a 3 point statement that:
-they felt we regressed as the season progressed
-the team didn't perform to their talent level
-the team lacked motivation to play 60 minutes of football.....a change was deemed necessary.
This would have been much more palatable to the fans than the BS they spewed in that press conference. I think after letting this sink in, a lot of the fans would have come to the conclusion that they weren't going to accept poor performance and will act promptly....just as they did with the Trich trade. Their arrogance and BS bit them in the arse.
People think it's funny that some imbecile made the 'three stooges' remark and it's earned the moron some media time (some Channel 19 in Cleveland bozo), but the Browns should keep anyone from Channel 19 out of the room from now on. That's just not acting professionally.
The questions about Pilot/Flying J are irrelevant. They shouldn't even be asked in the context of the firing of the head coach. Anyone asking such a question has just been waiting (for months?) to get Jimmy in front of a microphone to ask it and it didn't matter what the reason for the press conference was.
I listened to the press conference and I thought it was handled well by the Browns front office. Of course, I didn't watch it (I'm sure it's available, so I might take the opportunity), but just from listening, it didn't sound like a professional job by the assembled media.
People think it's funny that some imbecile made the 'three stooges' remark and it's earned the moron some media time (some Channel 19 in Cleveland bozo), but the Browns should keep anyone from Channel 19 out of the room from now on. That's just not acting professionally.
I'd have to go back and either re-read the presser or listen to it, but I think he (the reporter from Channel 19) made it clear that he was asking that question and making statements that he was reading from fans that responded to the stations facebook page.
So he was just reading what fans said. I see nothing wrong with that.
Quote: The questions about Pilot/Flying J are irrelevant.
Yes they are relevant. If it in anyway impacts the Browns, it's relevant. Haslam said that it was a distraction so therefore it impacted his ability to spend more time with the Browns. that's all it takes to make it relevant.
One of the things I noticed having WATCHED the presser is Haslams facial expressions. I thought they were very telling.
I was just beginning to trust this front office. I had no problem with the Coaching staff they hired. I liked them. I wasn't, like most, overwhelmed with the draft but it was pretty clear to me they were stocking up for the 2014 draft so that wasn't a problem for me either.
I was in shock when I saw that TRich was traded but then after reflection, I realized that TRich wasn't what most of us thought or hoped he could be.
When I saw Hoyer lead this team they way he did, I thought, Damn, these guys seem to know what the hell they are doing.
Then they fire Chud. I don't see the silver lining in that. And when I WATCH the presser, I see Haslam and Banner struggling to answer hard questions with a straight face then I hear of Turner making what I would term very strong statements (which I thought were spot on) and I'm sorry, I can't believe in these guys right now.
They can, and I hope they do, win my trust back. But it's not going to be easy.
First step,get me a HC I can believe in. Second step, Get the team a QB that either can start or be groomed Third step, Fill holes in the roster that make sense. Fourth, get the hell out of the way and let the coaches do their freakin jobs.
Quote: gage, I understand where you are coming from. I really do. I have many of the same feelings. It's frustrating. It's deflating. I just don't like this mob mentality and the woe is me crap.
Do you see frustration as "woe is me crap"? The two couldn't be further apart. And it's called "how the majority sees it", not "mob mentality".
Quote: Furthermore, if I am a guy looking to get a HC job, I am not sure I want to come to a city where the local media refers to the top brass as The Three Stooges and the fan base is as hateful as this one is.
You mean a fan base that is actually supporting that a HC should be given the time and talent to succeed rather than kicked out the door in less than a year? Yeah, I'm sure HC candidates are more worried about that than the hasty firing of Chud. That makes zero sense right there.
Quote: This is the same media that slaughtered Belichick daily in the papers and on the radio and the same fan base that hung dummies that resembled BB in the stands. I think we should give these guys the same amount of time the previous regime got before we go crazy.
People see a pattern here to what has been going on for so long. I don't want these people fired, but to give them some free pass when as of now, it looks like an instant replay is something I think you are simply asking to much for.
Quote: Oh........and this isn't to you, but I am not asking anyone to leave. I don't care. My point is that if you really hate the team this much, why stick around and make yourself miserable? It's not like being a kid who has abusive parents and you have to stay. You are free to quit rooting for the team. Why torture yourself?
If fans wanted to quit, they would.
It's their passion for this team, their desire to win and love for the Browns that bring this out. Not the other way around. This will be a fiasco until it isn't. Hopefully this FO will land "their guy" this time and he will be a winner. That's what everyone wants.
You've said yourself how much this move wasn't what you expected. People vent when they're upset. To call that whining, woe is me or anything else in that manner is so far from being honest and accurate, there's no measure for it.
It's what people who actually help foot the bill for things do. Expect as much accountability from those who preached about continuity, as they expected from the guy they fired.
Quote: Oh........and this isn't to you, but I am not asking anyone to leave. I don't care. My point is that if you really hate the team this much, why stick around and make yourself miserable? It's not like being a kid who has abusive parents and you have to stay. You are free to quit rooting for the team. Why torture yourself?
This is how I feel ...this has been my team since 1965..it always has been ..as long they are there ,they are my team. That said I am sick of these crappy seasons and the mismanagement and poor results for the last 14 years. Its been long enough for the FO to get it right. Other teams do.
Vers, My passion for football runs through Cleveland. Here in TX I've had several cowboys/texans fans suggest I just adopt a texas team to see some more wins, and I'm just not wired that way. When we lost the Browns in 95 I tried for a few weeks to follow the Packers but just stopped watching football entirely. I watched a few quarters of our return preseason game against Dallas. I was still pretty upset our team was taken though... so I didn't warm up to the team until the playoff game against Pittsburgh. From then I've watched just about every game and I will continue to do so, eagerly awaiting the return of quality football to the city.
Cleveland isn't just the team I root for when I watch football, Cleveland IS football to me. I rarely watch other games and I rarely watch playoff football because it has no importance to the Browns except for say, draft position like this year. So when you say things like just stop watching or pick another team, that may be something you could do, I dunno. But for me it's Cleveland or nothing. I love them and just want the best for them
Quote: I'd have to go back and either re-read the presser or listen to it, but I think he (the reporter from Channel 19) made it clear that he was asking that question and making statements that he was reading from fans that responded to the stations facebook page.
Oh, I know what he said. I have no doubt that it's actually true. He decided to take that and run with it. Just because some moronic Browns fan writes something stupid on their TV station's facebook page, he should be obligated to use it in a press conference? Seriously, you're suggesting that as a defense?
Quote: So he was just reading what fans said. I see nothing wrong with that.
Thank goodness he didn't use some the moronic things that have been posted on this message board. I see a great deal wrong with it. It shows a huge lack of class by the reporter and that's to say nothing of the 'fan' that wrote it on their facebook page.
Quote: Yes they are relevant. If it in anyway impacts the Browns, it's relevant. Haslam said that it was a distraction so therefore it impacted his ability to spend more time with the Browns. That's all it takes to make it relevant.
No it isn't, because he said it was behind them. There were follow-up questions about it. Furthermore, it had nothing to do with the firing of Chudzinski as the HC of the Browns. It can distract the owner totally. If it distracts Chudzinski or the players, then that's an added reason why he should have been fired. Any player that is distracted by it should be let go too.
While I do see your point, I don't see it as any less moronic than preaching continuity, building for the long haul, then firing your HC after one season when he had to go through 3 QB's with no running game.
Defensive back Joe Haden and tight end Jordan Cameron felt the organization’s desire to win with Sunday’s firing of coach Rob Chudzinski.
When Cleveland Browns owner Jimmy Haslam and chief executive officer Joe Banner relieved Rob Chudzinski of his coaching duties on Sunday night, to the players, it signified the organization’s desire to reverse its fortunes, win games and compete for championships in the short term.
And the players believe the Browns have the talent in place to achieve that mission, starting with the 2014 season.
“We’ve got to realize we’ve got a really good team and we have a really good group of talented, core players,” Pro Bowl cornerback Joe Haden said. “We have to be stepping up. We’ve got to start closing games at the end. We’ve got to start finishing, and that’s the biggest thing, knowing that we have the guys here. We’ve just got to start winning. It has to start somewhere.
“Nobody’s playing around. The time is now. It’s not going to be a building process. They really want things to start snapping.”
Quote: While I do see your point, I don't see it as any less moronic than preaching continuity, building for the long haul, then firing your HC after one season when he had to go through 3 QB's with no running game.
Oh, I don't dispute that. I just think that maybe the coaching staff misunderstood that when they said they wanted continuity, they didn't mean another 4-12 or 5-11 season. And they told the coaches to plan for the long haul. Apparently, they figured that continuing to lose was what they new owner and front office wanted.
You come to the dance with the players that you have. And you can blame the previous regime for placing the necklace that is Brandon Weeden around his neck. What would the fans here (and most everywhere else) have said if they had cut Weeden after a single season on the roster? They would have been criticized for that move. The same thing goes for Richardson. You saw how quickly they pulled the trigger on the trade that sent Richardson to Indy. Initially, they took a lot of heat for that move but it's proven to be quite a good trade for the Browns. Since being traded, Richardson has done next to nothing in Indy too.
Quote: Sometimes you simply reap what you sew.
Sew? Do you mean the past tense of 'sow' or are you stitching something together?
Sometimes you have to declare the harvest a bad one and reseed the field during the next planting season. To rip out the seams and restitch it so that it fits.
Haden hasn't been right very often this year. PB aside, the talk is better than the walk. This and Weedy and JC telling us exactly what was needed and such . . .humbug. Spare me the crap. All hat and no cattle. Failed miserably to get 'er done this year.
Quote: Oh, I don't dispute that. I just think that maybe the coaching staff misunderstood that when they said they wanted continuity, they didn't mean another 4-12 or 5-11 season. And they told the coaches to plan for the long haul. Apparently, they figured that continuing to lose was what they new owner and front office wanted.
I don't believe the coaching staff misunderstood anything. To me that would mean they tried to lose or weren't trying to win. I don't believe that to be the case at all.
What I see is we only had one QB that performed to the level at which we had a chance of winning. That was Hoyer. This coaching staff had him listed at the #3 QB, and actually saw his potential to the point they elevated him above Campbell and did win with a QB who could actually play average at the position.
Hoyer ia no Aaron Rogers or Drew Brees, but he was good enough to win with. To me, that's a very strong indication that if given some talent on O, Chud can win. Even at that we were a one dimensional O.
I believe many fans saw that as, "This is a very good sign. Once they give Chud same talent to work with, we can win with him as our HC". In the limited time they had Hoyer playing, they won.
Quote: You come to the dance with the players that you have. And you can blame the previous regime for placing the necklace that is Brandon Weeden around his neck. What would the fans here (and most everywhere else) have said if they had cut Weeden after a single season on the roster? They would have been criticized for that move. The same thing goes for Richardson. You saw how quickly they pulled the trigger on the trade that sent Richardson to Indy. Initially, they took a lot of heat for that move but it's proven to be quite a good trade for the Browns. Since being traded, Richardson has done next to nothing in Indy too.
There's no doubt who to blame for the Weeden mistake. While that mistake certainly doesn't fall on the shoulders of this FO, neither does it fall on the shoulders of Chud.
I do disagree that this FO would have taken a lot of heat for letting Weeden go after one season. Well, maybe YTown.
While the fan base was hopeful that Weeden would somehow do better in Chud's system, I don't believe the confidence level in that happening were very high.
And you are right, you come to the dance with the players you have. But with no QB and no running game, you can't expect an amputee to really dance can you? At least not nearly to the level of others with two healthy legs.
Quote:
Quote: Sometimes you simply reap what you sew.
Sew? Do you mean the past tense of 'sow' or are you stitching something together?
Sometimes you have to declare the harvest a bad one and reseed the field during the next planting season. To rip out the seams and restitch it so that it fits.
See what I did there?
Yes, I see what you did. You played something most call "The Grammar police".
But I'll go with your analogy. When a farmer has no rain with which to grow a successful harvest, he needs more rain or the next harvest won't be any better. You don't blame the poor harvest on the farmer because there was no rain.
Defensive back Joe Haden and tight end Jordan Cameron felt the organization’s desire to win with Sunday’s firing of coach Rob Chudzinski.
When Cleveland Browns owner Jimmy Haslam and chief executive officer Joe Banner relieved Rob Chudzinski of his coaching duties on Sunday night, to the players, it signified the organization’s desire to reverse its fortunes, win games and compete for championships in the short term.
And the players believe the Browns have the talent in place to achieve that mission, starting with the 2014 season.
“We’ve got to realize we’ve got a really good team and we have a really good group of talented, core players,” Pro Bowl cornerback Joe Haden said. “We have to be stepping up. We’ve got to start closing games at the end. We’ve got to start finishing, and that’s the biggest thing, knowing that we have the guys here. We’ve just got to start winning. It has to start somewhere.
“Nobody’s playing around. The time is now. It’s not going to be a building process. They really want things to start snapping.”
Defensive back Joe Haden and tight end Jordan Cameron felt the organization’s desire to win with Sunday’s firing of coach Rob Chudzinski.
When Cleveland Browns owner Jimmy Haslam and chief executive officer Joe Banner relieved Rob Chudzinski of his coaching duties on Sunday night, to the players, it signified the organization’s desire to reverse its fortunes, win games and compete for championships in the short term.
And the players believe the Browns have the talent in place to achieve that mission, starting with the 2014 season.
“We’ve got to realize we’ve got a really good team and we have a really good group of talented, core players,” Pro Bowl cornerback Joe Haden said. “We have to be stepping up. We’ve got to start closing games at the end. We’ve got to start finishing, and that’s the biggest thing, knowing that we have the guys here. We’ve just got to start winning. It has to start somewhere.
“Nobody’s playing around. The time is now. It’s not going to be a building process. They really want things to start snapping.”
Maybe it did, because they sure as hell have sucked every year that they have been here.
I'm glad you guys were happy w/4 and 12. It's time for some accountability. And if the FO can't show significant improvement in three years [same amount of time the previous regime got and did not even improve by one game], then they should go too.
They have to have immediate success or the whole group should be shown the door. They want to be a no excuse team, fine, but they better realize that goes for everyone now. No more 3-5 year plans to get back to the playoffs. They made it clear, 4-12 isn't good enough anymore.
They have to win, bare minimum, 7 games next year or their jobs are probably in jeopardy. That's the spot they have put themselves in.
You DO realize that this an incredibly mis-leading headline from the official website aka The Stooges PR machinery.
If it gets ignored, then rightfully so, because this sneaky PR piece with it's misleading headline suggests some kind of "happiness" of said players about Chud getting fired....something they didnt even come close to saying. All they said is that they got the boot camp "watch out" memo in a Company line way. Haden even complimented Chud, but somehow that didn't pass your censorship, although you posted over half the article...hmm
And you go around threads accusing others of agenda....lol
Defensive back Joe Haden and tight end Jordan Cameron felt the organization’s desire to win with Sunday’s firing of coach Rob Chudzinski.
When Cleveland Browns owner Jimmy Haslam and chief executive officer Joe Banner relieved Rob Chudzinski of his coaching duties on Sunday night, to the players, it signified the organization’s desire to reverse its fortunes, win games and compete for championships in the short term.
And the players believe the Browns have the talent in place to achieve that mission, starting with the 2014 season.
“We’ve got to realize we’ve got a really good team and we have a really good group of talented, core players,” Pro Bowl cornerback Joe Haden said. “We have to be stepping up. We’ve got to start closing games at the end. We’ve got to start finishing, and that’s the biggest thing, knowing that we have the guys here. We’ve just got to start winning. It has to start somewhere.
“Nobody’s playing around. The time is now. It’s not going to be a building process. They really want things to start snapping.”
I do have an agenda, Dj. In fact, I think almost everyone has an agenda. It's a wise thing to have an agenda. Agendas are used in business. They are used in education. They are used in meetings worldwide. Advertisers use them. Who the heck does not have an agenda?
Here is my agenda.
I am giving the FO three years---the same amount of time that your heroes got--to show improvement. The previous regime did NOT IMPROVE THE RECORD BY EVEN ONE GAME IN THREE YEARS.
This regime better improve the record by more than that or I will turn on them.
Speaking of agendas.........I have noticed that you have not commented on Norv. You have been saying that the game has passed him by and that he was ineffective as an OC. Suddenly, you have been strangely silent in the light of his recent comments and his impending dismissal. Wonder why that is, Mr. I Don't Have an Agenda?
Because I don't care much for Turner or Horton or Chud, as I didn't care much for Shurmur.
My only real "Hero" I went to bat for was Heckert and he managed to draft 4 PBs in 3 recent drafts. I'd be ecstatic if the Stooges can draft one in three drafts
That's as much regime pissing match as I'll give you because you try to stir it that way again, because you've already embarrassed yourself with posting that article....and NO, Haden did not say he was happy with Chud getting fired nor did he come even remotely close to implying that a NEW HC would lead to more wins like the Headline does. If anything he was directing blame at the players. If you can't read through the PR BS that's being spewed there, then you're hopeless. Since I think you've smarter than that, I Happen to think you're being an apologist for a bunch of liars. I mean why do you defend these scums when you didn't like the move?
Oh, and whatever happened to the "consensus"? Now it's the FO you want to give three full years, not the dreaded consensus that turned out to be another farce. How can you trust even one word coming out of their mouths and still back them? It makes you look like a hypocrite along with them. That's an honest question and not meant as an insult.
I dunno, bud. I think you're really reaching here. You don't have to search too hard to find some pretty scathing commentary from Browns players immediately after the firing of Chud (all anonymous, I'll admit). Before the official firing, Joe Thomas spoke pretty strongly against getting rid of Chud (at least, as strong as you're likely to get when going on the record and putting your name next to it, as he did).
This article (that comes from the Browns website) doesn't really jive with everything else out there (for what it's worth). I don't really much care for any of the news coming out right now. It's just a big poopstorm, and the truth is in little pieces and scattered among all these different articles flying around. I really don't have any interest in trying to go out there and piece it together.
I do want to comment on you saying you'll give the FO 3 years to evaluate. This is something that you've been saying since "go", and saying you have said you applied to previous regimes (I haven't been posting here long enough, and don't post on any other boards). I think this is a good way to do it, and I commend you in sticking to it, despite prevailing winds changing on a weekly basis. That being said, will you still use this length of time to evaluate these guys when they, obviously, are evaluating others on a very VERY different timeline? I'd like to hear what you think, because my initial opinion is that it's wrong to hold the FO to one timeline while they're holding others to a different timeline.
I expect Banner, Lombardi, and whoever to be tossed out after next season if they don't noticeably improve the on-field performance of the Browns (given the amount of time they gave Chud).
You sound like a moron talking about the Stooges....you like that....I don't...I am a Browns fan and support my team. It's obvious to me you don't are aren't.
I will refrain from my moron talk when others refrain from stooge talk.
Stooge comments should be sent to the smack shack...because that is all that it is...smack talk.
Quote: You sound like a moron talking about the Stooges....you like that....I don't...I am a Browns fan and support my team. It's obvious to me you don't are aren't.
Stooge comments should be sent to the smack shack...because that is all that it is...smack talk.
peen, its one thing to support the browns. we ALL do, i think thats clear as day since we all post on a freakin' message board.
its another to support a FO, or any, that has constantly ruined our team every single year, this being no different.
First of all, I did not post the article as Dj claimed. I simply replied to it.
My point was that ALL the negative articles are getting a lot of run on here. Guys are searching for them. Then, they completely ignore this article. You don't find that ironic?
Look, I really don't care about that article. And I really don't care about these stupid articles about how awful our FO is. It's been one year.
I will give them three years. Most of you won't. Simple as that.
These string of articles are pretty much what I expected. I think they're getting tired already with the name calling, but this should've been expected.
Bad move = Bad articles
This difference this one move has made is huge, and the media backlash is consequently huge.
This all takes away from my real question. Vers, have you considered shortening the evaluation period on the FO, given that they are using short evaluation periods for their direct reports? Your answer, actually, isn't that important as I'm much more interested to hear the rationale for said answer.
Quote: You sound like a moron talking about the Stooges....you like that....I don't...I am a Browns fan and support my team. It's obvious to me you don't are aren't.
Stooge comments should be sent to the smack shack...because that is all that it is...smack talk.
peen, its one thing to support the browns. we ALL do, i think thats clear as day since we all post on a freakin' message board.
its another to support a FO, or any, that has constantly ruined our team every single year, this being no different.
No, I don't think we all do. Many show up only in crisis.....that said, I don't think this FO is ruining anything.
We won 4 games. Tell me how that is good?
It's obvious to me the FO made a mistake, and are now trying to correct the mistake, but some don't want me to say that.....they are the same people who were saying we should stick with Couch 3-4-5 years in to that failed episode.
One and done....I am good with that....win or hit the road....really, that is the only way to a SuperBowl win.....right? That's what we want....right?
Anything less than a Super Bowl win is a failed season....at least in my book it is.
Quote: You sound like a moron talking about the Stooges....you like that....I don't...I am a Browns fan and support my team. It's obvious to me you don't are aren't.
Stooge comments should be sent to the smack shack...because that is all that it is...smack talk.
peen, its one thing to support the browns. we ALL do, i think thats clear as day since we all post on a freakin' message board.
its another to support a FO, or any, that has constantly ruined our team every single year, this being no different.
No, I don't think we all do. Many show up only in crisis.....that said, I don't think this FO is ruining anything.
We won 4 games. Tell me how that is good?
It's obvious to me the FO made a mistake, and are now trying to correct the mistake, but some don't want me to say that.....they are the same people who were saying we should stick with Couch 3-4-5 years in to that failed episode.
One and done....I am good with that....win or hit the road....really, that is the only way to a SuperBowl win.....right? That's what we want....right?
Anything less than a Super Bowl win is a failed season....at least in my book it is.
So, you WILL hold the next coach to the same fire, right? new coach gets 1 year, plus all the draft picks. If we don't make the playoffs, you'll be calling for his head, right?
If not........you need to back off your statements.
Quote: Your answer, actually, isn't that important as I'm much more interested to hear the rationale for said answer.
LOL.............if there was ever a loaded question, this is it. Whatever, I don't care......I'll answer it.
I will give them 3 years. Same as H and H got. All the H and H homers were crying they only got three years. They wanted five.
Three years seems fair.
Look, I don't know what happened w/Chud. I don't think any of you do, either. My experience tells me that there is more to this story than what we are being told, just as there was w/Kokinas, or whatever his name is.
There very well could be reasons for his dismissal that the top brass isn't sharing out of respect for Chud. I no longer have inside information, but I know how things work. There is more to this story than we are privy to.
But again..............I am not trying to convince anyone to give them more time. I am simply stating my opinion, just as I did when I disagreed w/the masses about Junior, about Collins, about Butch, about Savage, about Romeo, about Holmgren. Many of the same people calling me clueless are the same people who called me clueless in each of those situations.
Heck, did you read the posts earlier this year? I was belittled for saying TRich was an ordinary back and that he lacked vision and instincts and that the rib thing was an excuse. I was slammed for saying Weeden would not drastically improve under Norv because he couldn't read coverages. These guys always act like I am making crap up, that I only post because of my agenda, that I don't know what I am talking about. They then get mad if I bring things up once they play out.
And I guarantee you guys one thing............if this team starts winning, believe me when I tell you, I am going to bring up all these hateful posts again.
Not only that, I'll start to question Banner and Lombardi.
I think this move also put a shot over the bow of them. I don't think either Banner or Lombardi was behind this move....at least in a big way. I think it was Haslam....as in saying this is the guy you two advised me to hire....if we don't get the next one right, I'll find new advisors.
So for those of you who don't like Banner and Lombardi....they are offically on notice. At least that is how I see it. Face it....in a FO, the coach is the first to go, then the GM, and or the President.....just depends if the President can convince the owner the talent lacks and blame the GM or if the GM can convince the owner the President is at fault with bad adivce. Many times the owner starts fresh and cans them both.
Banner better get a good coach and Lombo better get at least 4-5 players who can have solid impact on this team for the next 4-5 years, or they are done.
Look, I don't know what happened w/Chud. I don't think any of you do, either. My experience tells me that there is more to this story than what we are being told, just as there was w/Kokinas, or whatever his name is.
There very well could be reasons for his dismissal that the top brass isn't sharing out of respect for Chud. I no longer have inside information, but I know how things work. There is more to this story than we are privy to.
But again..............I am not trying to convince anyone to give them more time. I am simply stating my opinion, just as I did when I disagreed w/the masses about Junior, about Collins, about Butch, about Savage, about Romeo, about Holmgren. Many of the same people calling me clueless are the same people who called me clueless in each of those situations.
Heck, did you read the posts earlier this year? I was belittled for saying TRich was an ordinary back and that he lacked vision and instincts and that the rib thing was an excuse. I was slammed for saying Weeden would not drastically improve under Norv because he couldn't read coverages. These guys always act like I am making crap up, that I only post because of my agenda, that I don't know what I am talking about. They then get mad if I bring things up once they play out.
And I guarantee you guys one thing............if this team starts winning, believe me when I tell you, I am going to bring up all these hateful posts again.
Wow. You disagreed with Jr., Collins, Butch, Savage, Romeo, Holmgren. wow, you've disagreed with just about everyone that's had anything to do with Browns football. That makes you............a know it all in hindsight. Kudo's.
It is so damn obvious you know more than anyone, it's beyond belief that you aren't running a team.
They have to have immediate success or the whole group should be shown the door. They want to be a no excuse team, fine, but they better realize that goes for everyone now. No more 3-5 year plans to get back to the playoffs. They made it clear, 4-12 isn't good enough anymore.
They have to win, bare minimum, 7 games next year or their jobs are probably in jeopardy. That's the spot they have put themselves in.
Not really... just don't collapse at the end of games against bad teams like Jax, don't mail in the second half of the season, don't finish 27th in points scored and 23rd in points allowed, don't be the worst team in the NFL on 3rd down, both on offense and defense, don't be one of the worst teams in the NFL in the red zone on offense and defense... This team could have been a 4 win team and Chud could have kept his job if it had looked different on the field.... that's JMHO... How do you look around the locker room and see 5 guys going to the pro-bowl and another one or two that were probably close and think.. we won FOUR games? We gave up 31 points in one quarter against the Bengals in a game we needed to win... we didn't show up for either game against a mediocre Steelers team (our alleged rival)... we let Jax go 80 yards to win the game in the final minutes (giving up 32 points to the worst offense in the NFL)... We gave up 24 second half points to the Lions and scored 0 when we had a 10 point lead.... Your choices are replacing a whole bunch of players or replacing the coaching staff.. if it took replacing the coaching staff for the players to get the message that this is just not freaking acceptable, then so be it
Look, I don't know what happened w/Chud. I don't think any of you do, either. My experience tells me that there is more to this story than what we are being told, just as there was w/Kokinas, or whatever his name is.
There very well could be reasons for his dismissal that the top brass isn't sharing out of respect for Chud. I no longer have inside information, but I know how things work. There is more to this story than we are privy to.
But again..............I am not trying to convince anyone to give them more time. I am simply stating my opinion, just as I did when I disagreed w/the masses about Junior, about Collins, about Butch, about Savage, about Romeo, about Holmgren. Many of the same people calling me clueless are the same people who called me clueless in each of those situations.
Heck, did you read the posts earlier this year? I was belittled for saying TRich was an ordinary back and that he lacked vision and instincts and that the rib thing was an excuse. I was slammed for saying Weeden would not drastically improve under Norv because he couldn't read coverages. These guys always act like I am making crap up, that I only post because of my agenda, that I don't know what I am talking about. They then get mad if I bring things up once they play out.
And I guarantee you guys one thing............if this team starts winning, believe me when I tell you, I am going to bring up all these hateful posts again.
Wow. You disagreed with Jr., Collins, Butch, Savage, Romeo, Holmgren. wow, you've disagreed with just about everyone that's had anything to do with Browns football. That makes you............a know it all in hindsight. Kudo's.
It is so damn obvious you know more than anyone, it's beyond belief that you aren't running a team.
Funny how he left off his boy Mangini, who set back this franchise more in one off season than any other regime, and that's saying something.
Quote: I will give them three years. Most of you won't. Simple as that.
I was not against giving this regime 3-5 years (before they fired Chud), but now they have shown me that they knee jerk very easily and are not willing to seea plan through.
the reason why the Browns have sucked the last 14 years and the Steelers haven't is because of ownership....do you really think the Rooney's would have canned their 1st year coach? Nope...that's not what they do....they actually give the guys they hire a chance to actually build and fix things.
I think Knoll had like 3 straight losing seasons...Yes Chuck Knoll went 1-13 his 1st yeat, 5-9 his 2nd year, and 6-8 his 3rd year....those 1st 3 seasons were horrid for Knoll....yet the Rooney's stayed the course.....
Bill Cowher had back to back losing season in 98 and 99...going 6-10 in 99....he also had a 6-10 season in 2003...did the Steelers fire Cowher? Of course not...
The Knoll example is glaring one...the Rooney's uderstand that is "more then the coach" and actually have the vision to see things through....Mike Tomlin could have went 3-13 in his 1st season and the Steelers still would not have fired him because they don't panic and knee jerk like we do.
I hate the Steelers, but they and the Rooney's are masters at creating a positive conductive environment that gives people the ability to spread their legs, not to be afraid of failure, not to be afraid to try new things, and actually succeed.....
The Browns? our last 3 coaches have not gotten more then 2 seasons, and Chud got one....that's why this team isn't any good....it can take 4-5 years and much of the roster replaced with new players to change a culture in football lockeroom....Look at the losing culture Knoll had to reverse in Pittsburgh...prior to his arrival that team was horrid...it took Knoll 3 years of changing the roster and instituting a program to clean up that mess.
regardless of your feelings on a coach, your not going to be successful unless you give a coach more then 2 years....4-5 should be the minimum....oh heres a novel idea Jimmy...instead of paying coaches to sit on the couch because you canned them, why not actually make them work out the length of their contracts....you know...so you actually force them to work for the money your handing out to them...
firing a coach and then paying him millions to sit home is the most moronic business move a person can make...that's a huge waste of money down the drain that will have to be recouped somehow in higher ticket prices, parking prices, food prices, etc...one way or another the fans pay for every coaching change...and that's just not fair or conductive at all.
Quote: And I guarantee you guys one thing............if this team starts winning, believe me when I tell you, I am going to bring up all these hateful posts again.
Yeah .... so?
I'm sure that if you're wrong, someone on the other side will bring up tour comments. So what? What difference will it really make.
Nothing like trying to intimidate another person, on a message board, into following you.
Sorry, but I don't see this group getting it done now. If they do, great ..... but I don't see them getting anyone worthwhile in here. I see us losing out is we wind up in competition for the services of a coach. I don't even see this happening because of the talent on the team, because this team has some very good talent, and had resources galore. However, the perception, right now, after we fired our 4th head coach in 6 years, is that this is an organization in chaos. if we want McDaniels, we have to negotiate with Chud's agent for his services, Think that his agent might not have a little insight into what truly happened? Who knows? We were "all set to hire" Kelly too.
Until this front office proves otherwise, they get to wear the red noses and white face paint,. and go by the names Bozo, Bingo, and Bonzo. That is my perception (when I am feeling generous) of them. You don't like that .... and that's fine. I would love to be wrong. Time will tell. If you want to blast me for questioning whether or not this group has any clue what they are doing as of right now, then fine. It won't be the 1st time. I can take a little message board shaming. (oh the horror!)
You agree with the stance this front office has taken. That's fine. It's your right. I disagree. Vehemently. I think that it makes them look bad. I think it makes them look like they are looking for a scapegoat. I also think that they couldn't hire the guy they wanted last year, because of who they are, and what the team is. Now that we have developed some players, maybe a coach they actually like will want to come here.
Now, I don't even care that they fired Chud. Well, I do ..... but that's their decision. They can do as they please. What I do have a problem with is the crap they tried to smear him with. Didn't develop players? Bull. He (and his staff) helped develop Gordon, Cameron, Haden, Skrine, and Gipson. All of those players performed at a much higher level than in the past. Haden went from being pretty decent, to actiually shutting down some of the bext in the game. Gordon became the best in the game, according to yards .... even missing 2 games. When you consider the QB situation, that's astonishing. They were able to create a running game to some extent, despite having no RBs. That's incredible. Unfortunately, the one position you cannot "create' is a QB. When we were down to Weeden and Campbell, we were done. We actually tied Pittsburgh in running the ball at 27th in the league. That sucks, but based on having McGahee, Obi, and God knows who else, (before Baker came on the scene, a player that Chud had before, and wanted here, by the way) it's incredible. We effectively used trick plays, and end arounds, and Wildcat formations to make a run game out of nothing. However, there are times when you just have to be able to line up and run the ball, and we could not develop anything like that until late in the season with Baker.
I look at these factors, and ask what coach could have succeeded here? I don't doubt that Chud made mistakes, but he was aggressive, even with less talent than most teams we played. He was also working to try and develop players. That doesn't mean that he gave them spots. The perfect example is McFadden. The front office (illegally, IMHO) stuck Owens on IR so that the team would have to play McFadden, even if he hadn't shown himself to be the 3rd best CB in practices. They desperately wanted to see him play. Owens, of course, protested, was then released, and signed on with another team. This is not how a professional team should operate. JMHP.
Anyway, I hope that you enjoy whatever you see with this time.
Nope. Not a loaded question at all. At least that wasn't the intention. I said I was more interested in your rationale because a simple yes or no doesn't help me to learn/understand better. You do frequently mention that you prefer to talk football, but you neglect to include that it comes with biting people's heads off. Not all of us can be a football genius like you.
OK, that's enough of the drama. As the days go by, it gets easier to look at the move with less bias. It's convenient to see this move as proof that Banner is control freak, and Haslam is Jerry Jones 2.0 as that was the popular slam against them when they were on their way in. I am starting to come around, and the more I do, the more I agree with you that there was something big going down that we aren't privy to. My only doubt was that that was made pretty clear when it did happen with Kokinis. It could be that Chud really did have some love affair with Weeden, and wanted to keep working on him.
The best we can do is speculate, and I'd rather look ahead. I'm not too enamored with the idea of McDaniels. His body of work really doesn't woo me, but I've been wrong before. I'm really not enamored with the idea of Schwartz, but that's only because he's a grade AAA jumbo a-hole.
What would the impact be to our offensive personnel going to a McDaniels offense? We need to draft a QB and at least one RB, regardless. What happens to Campbell? Should we pencil in Hoyer as the starter? What oline schemes and personnel? Does McDaniels have a preference between defensive schemes? I believe New England technically runs a 3-4, but I believe they've leaned heavily towards having 4 down lineman lately (or was that because they lost Wilfork early in the season?).
Quote: It could be that Chud really did have some love affair with Weeden, and wanted to keep working on him.
I thought it was widely accepted that one of the most important things the Browns needed to do in the 2013 season was to find out what they had in Weeden.
• He started early • Went down with an injury • Did not return when healthy but only once Hoyer went down • Two games later he was benched in favor of Campbell due to being ineffective • Came back to start only because Campbell was injured • Once Campbell was healthy Campbell returned as the starter.
That doesn't sound to me like Chud had a "love affair" with Weeden.
What it sounds like is Chud gave him every chance to redeem himself only when he had no other choice. In fact, when asked how he felt about starting Weeden when both Hoyer and Campbell were injured he said, "He's all we got". Not much of an endorsement.
I think Chud did what the FO wanted him to do. To see what they had in Weeden. Once he knew, early on, Weeden became the last resort at QB starting with the KC game in which Campbell started.
They wanted to cut Weeden, which is fine, but didn't sign someone to take over Weeden's spot. Had we cut Weeden what would we have done with our QB if JC goes down? Do we start Gray or Edwards at QB?
They wanted to cut Greg Little, which I don't agree with, but it's acceptable, but didn't bring in talent to replace him as a #2. Had we cut Little we would have had Josh Cooper as our #2 for our last game.
I heard they also wanted to cut Lavaman, which I would love, but I realize how dumb it is. I'm not sure what part of the season they wanted to cut him at, but it would have meant either Gilkey or Pinkston playing guard for the rest of the season. I'm not sure if Pinkston was even ready to go this season or if Gilkey should be playing in the NFL.
You won't find a bigger Weeden hater than me on this board and you won't find a bigger Greg Little fanatic on this board, but not cutting both was the right thing to do if you're trying to have a team to play with.
Vers I believe my agenda was clear way back in Jan of last year when I posted this.
#1006043 - Fri Jan 18 2013 08:17 PM Reply to this post Reply Reply to this post Quote
As bad as they are are buddy the hiring of Lombardi is 100 times worse. The fact that Haslam bought into this total crock of.... ummmmm... crap .. just amazes and shocks the hell out of me. I thought we had a smart owner who only needed to learn to get up to speed, now I see that we have an owner who does not have a fr.....eakin clue, and who listens to a worthless, good for nothing, little weasel like Banner.
I am either brilliant or a crazy madden player but here are my thoughts on this.
A QB who is dynamic and inexperienced is better than a qb who sucks. I didn't say it often, but absolutely our best QB on the roster over the years was Josh Cribbs. Why is that you say? Because our other QBs were so terrible, that running some kind of spread with Cribbs at least had the opportunity to turn every play into a big play. Every QB we have started has been in the bottom five of the league every season since 2007. (outside of a few stretches where all of most of our QBs had some good games)
And yes. 50% of the WRs off any practice squad in the league would be better than Little. Because the vast majority of them wouldn't be leading the league in drops. A WRs job is to catch the ball consistently. I don't care about his athletic prowess if he can't catch. The exact same can be said about Bess.
I don't think Lava was on the scale of massive failure that Weeden and Little possess. It would have to be a guy more like Cousins first game. A few teams and their fans would be able to tell you what terrible guard play looks like. We didn't see that this season, we saw below average guard play.
I don't think you need to cut these guys. And to be fair Weeden was demoted. As was Little..for a week or two. I thought Campbell played well enough that replacing him with a UDFA wouldn't have worked. But I do think in the long history of QB ineptitude I would like to have had atleast one game where we had a guy like Gray or Cribbs come in and spice things up. Tebow would have worked in this capacity as well. That is how horrid our QB play has been.
Quote: the Rooney's are masters at creating a positive conductive environment that gives people the ability to spread their legs, not to be afraid of failure, not to be afraid to try new things,
Quote: the Rooney's are masters at creating a positive conductive environment that gives people the ability to spread their legs, not to be afraid of failure, not to be afraid to try new things,
Maybe they should try the adult movie industry.
That's it.... close the thread. What could top this?
When Chud got fired I was more in disbelief than anything else. Unlike you, I didn't get upset. I think it is because I have become numb from all the resets. I am giving Banner and Haslam more time because the last thing I want is to be negative. To me the Chud fiasco is the second bad move (hiring Lombardi was the first) that Banner has made. If they can bring in the right guy this time than firing Chud will turn into a positive, a bold move like trading Richardson. If he gets this wrong I will be calling for his head.
Quote: When Chud got fired I was more in disbelief than anything else. Unlike you, I didn't get upset. I think it is because I have become numb from all the resets. I am giving Banner and Haslam more time because the last thing I want is to be negative. To me the Chud fiasco is the second bad move (hiring Lombardi was the first) that Banner has made. If they can bring in the right guy this time than firing Chud will turn into a positive, a bold move like trading Richardson. If he gets this wrong I will be calling for his head.
Well said P. That is my position.
My opinion doesn't count. They feel they made the wrong hire. Ok, I don't know what all happened to make them feel that way. There had to be some things in the background we don't know about. I am not talking major stuff or bad or illegal things, just little things that add up...maybe he just irritated people with little comments.
I do like the fact that since they feel that way, the FO made a swift move, but as you said, if they blow this hire as well, Haslam needs to find someone else to do the hiring.
Subordinate Management Allegedly Got Them In Trouble (Pilot). Maybe Jimmy Doesnt Hire Worth A Damn WhIch makes The Browns/Pilot Question More Relevant.
I Want Them To Know The Fan And Media Are Scrutinizing Their Performanc Especially After All The Talk Of They're Going To Do This Right.
Quote: Subordinate Management Allegedly Got Them In Trouble (Pilot). Maybe Jimmy Doesnt Hire Worth A Damn WhIch makes The Browns/Pilot Question More Relevant.
I Want Them To Know The Fan And Media Are Scrutinizing Their Performanc Especially After All The Talk Of They're Going To Do This Right.
I don't think that Jimmy Haslam cares too much about what you think of him. If you don't like the direction of the team, buy it and make the decisions. Until then, he shouldn't even care what you have to say. The same applies to me and every other Browns fan.
He wants a winning franchise on the field because that will mean more money in his pocket. He'll probably make a decent amount off the Browns anyway, but he wants a good return.
Quote: Subordinate Management Allegedly Got Them In Trouble (Pilot). Maybe Jimmy Doesnt Hire Worth A Damn WhIch makes The Browns/Pilot Question More Relevant.
I Want Them To Know The Fan And Media Are Scrutinizing Their Performanc Especially After All The Talk Of They're Going To Do This Right.
I don't think that Jimmy Haslam cares too much about what you think of him. If you don't like the direction of the team, buy it and make the decisions. Until then, he shouldn't even care what you have to say. The same applies to me and every other Browns fan.
He wants a winning franchise on the field because that will mean more money in his pocket. He'll probably make a decent amount off the Browns anyway, but he wants a good return.
I agree. Screw the fans and media opinion. It's not like he is running for re-election. No doubt they need to be fan and media friendly, but not driven by them.
Quote: Subordinate Management Allegedly Got Them In Trouble (Pilot). Maybe Jimmy Doesnt Hire Worth A Damn WhIch makes The Browns/Pilot Question More Relevant.
I Want Them To Know The Fan And Media Are Scrutinizing Their Performanc Especially After All The Talk Of They're Going To Do This Right.
There sure are a lot of drama queens on this board. You don't like the Browns under Jimmy...........fine. Leave. It's simple. Go root for 49ers.
Quote: Subordinate Management Allegedly Got Them In Trouble (Pilot). Maybe Jimmy Doesnt Hire Worth A Damn WhIch makes The Browns/Pilot Question More Relevant.
I Want Them To Know The Fan And Media Are Scrutinizing Their Performanc Especially After All The Talk Of They're Going To Do This Right.
There sure are a lot of drama queens on this board. You don't like the Browns under Jimmy...........fine. Leave. It's simple. Go root for 49ers.
You're pretty damn fond of saying that, aren't you?
You've told pretty much everyone that didn't agree with firing Chud, OR that doesn't agree with you to root for someone else.
Are you haslam's son or something? Or are you just a wanna be know it all that can't handle someone disagreeing with you. I know it's one of the two......just not sure which.
Quote: There sure are a lot of drama queens on this board. You don't like the Browns under Jimmy...........fine. Leave. It's simple. Go root for 49ers.
I get the sentiment. I really do.
On the other hand, I'll also say this:
1. Some of us have been waiting patiently... from one regime change to another. 2. Some of us have been waiting patiently... through endless re-starts, re-tools, re-ups and perennial promises that "This time will be different." 3. Some of us have been waiting patiently... for a FO that looks like it knows what it's doing. 4. Some of us have seen the mistakes made by past regimes- (...and this is key-) and are now seeing the same ones being made by the current regime. 5. Some of us are seeing a new incarnation of the 'Same Old Same Old' that has plagued this team for a decade and a half....
...and we're no longer willing to take the ride based upon face value.
As I type this, the Browns have a better core team than they have had at any time since The Return. By the same token, I just spent an entire weekend watching teams that are MILES ahead of where the Browns currently find themselves.
For me, it isn't about being a 'Drama Queen.' For 15 years, I've made a supreme effort to be anything but a 'Drama Queen.' Now, it's about results.
***********************
I've already been sold a PR package. I've already been sold the promise that "next year will be better." I've already been told to "be patient."
Vers.... I did my freakkin' job.
I've done all that The Browns have asked of me as a fan. I've done all that I could as a fan.
And I've been rewarded with.... this.
________________
As a fellow packmate, I ask you- no, I BEG of you: please give me a reason (or list of reasons) why I should continue to follow this team, based upon its current legacy. I need your help, because I'm almost depleted of the stuff it takes to be a fan of this team.
In another post, I admitted that I was ready to 'jump ship' after 50+ years of Browns fandom, and become a Packers fan. I also have fandom for the Seattle Seahawks, based upon a bet I placed with My Father back in 1976.
I ask you: Do you REALLY think that this team can be what it takes to keep me as a fan, going forward?
Trust me- I'm not trying to put this all on you, but you do seem to have more faith in this FO than I have... and I need to understand why.
If you can give me a great answer, I might be able to extend my fandom for this team.
Please, PLEEEZE give me a reason to trust these guys...
There is this odd correlation between having a lousy quarterback and being a lousy franchise.
I wonder if correcting that problem for the Browns would make all the other FO faults look trivial in comparison...hmmm...
Just my two cents, there is no reason to be a fan who wants to watch a winning team if the team doesn't have a quarterback. That just goes entirely against NFL physics. Head Coaches come and go and are basically meaningless in terms of success. A great QB...now that can really turn things around in a hurry.
My only concern is that they are considering going from a player's coach in Chud to a guy who apparently wasn't well liked by his players in McDaniels. I despise the tough guy crap Mangini was pulling and I'd hate to see a coach with a similar philosophy brought in. Outside of that area I would obviously like someone who is flexible, innovative, and talented for sure... but I honestly believe with a good qb that stuff just doesn't matter much.
Quote: Head Coaches come and go and are basically meaningless in terms of success.
I don't know that I'd go so far as to call HCs meaningless. If that was the case, Indy would have a lot more than one Super Bowl win in the Manning era.
Quote: Head Coaches come and go and are basically meaningless in terms of success.
I don't know that I'd go so far as to call HCs meaningless. If that was the case, Indy would have a lot more than one Super Bowl win in the Manning era.
Or you could say that had Indy have built a better D, they would have more rings.
You make a lot of sense Clem. I don't see how buying the company line makes anyone a better fan. Or if you don't buy it. someone feels you should just go away.
Sometimes expecting more is a good thing. Funny how they think it's a good thing when switching coaches, but not when you're a fan.
Quote: You make a lot of sense Clem. I don't see how buying the company line makes anyone a better fan. Or if you don't buy it. someone feels you should just go away.
Sometimes expecting more is a good thing. Funny how they think it's a good thing when switching coaches, but not when you're a fan.
Not to go all Dr. Spock on you or anything but being a fan is inherently illogical... buying the company line? If this was a "company" in the sense of most companies, it would have 0 fans. How many times will you go to the same restaurant, the same barber, the same car dealership, the same tax accountant if they totally suck? Most would leave and never return after the very first bad experience... some might get a second chance but after screwing up again, not many would go back for thirds... so when I see posts about guys who have been screwed over for 15 years, 20 years, 50 years, whatever the number is... it kind of cracks me up...
Why would you leave now? (and trust me, I've thought about it)... but then what am I going to do when that team starts to suck? The precedent will have been set.
So why won't I ever go root for another team? FEAR. Plain and simple.... an unabashed fear that the year after I denounce my fandom, will be the year the Browns turn the corner.... It would be like investing into a company year after year and watching their stock go down, then pulling all of your money out right before they discover the next big thing and the stock goes through the roof.... I'm not sure when the Browns will be good, but I plan to be here when it happens..... Not to mention, rooting for another team and calling them "my favorite team" would just never feel right... I would have become the one thing I dislike most in a "fan".. and that is somebody that switches teams.... the other thing I don't like is somebody with "a second favorite team"...
Perhaps one of the differences between me and some others on here, I have learned to not let it drag me down and ruin days or weeks at a time of my life.... I'm optimistic, I predict good things, I look forward to the draft, the coaching hire, the next game... if it doesn't work out... I'll survive. I'll be temporarily frustrated but I've learned to get over it much quicker and move on....
Quote: I don't think that Jimmy Haslam cares too much about what you think of him. If you don't like the direction of the team, buy it and make the decisions. Until then, he shouldn't even care what you have to say. The same applies to me and every other Browns fan.
Oh I think he cares. I think he'd love to be thought of in the same way the Rooney family is thought of in Pittsburgh. Let's face it, they don't always make popular decisions, but for the most part, the result is mostly positive.
Jimmy knows that and probably wants that to be the case with him.
Now, does he care enough to listen to you or me or Mutt, probably not really. If the three of us stood before him and told him what he should do, I suspect he'd be a gentleman, listen, nod his head and then do what he and Banner think is the right thing to do.
He knows how to get us on his side, Just win and everything else is not nearly as important.
Quote: Oh I think he cares. I think he'd love to be thought of in the same way the Rooney family is thought of in Pittsburgh.
Hopefully it doesn't take him that long to find success.
Quote: Now, does he care enough to listen to you or me or Mutt, probably not really. If the three of us stood before him and told him what he should do, I suspect he'd be a gentleman, listen, nod his head and then do what he and Banner think is the right thing to do.
I'm confused by what you are saying.. are you saying he SHOULD listen? Are you saying the Rooney's got to where they are because they listened to the fans? Help me out here.
Quote: Oh I think he cares. I think he'd love to be thought of in the same way the Rooney family is thought of in Pittsburgh.
Hopefully it doesn't take him that long to find success.
Quote: Now, does he care enough to listen to you or me or Mutt, probably not really. If the three of us stood before him and told him what he should do, I suspect he'd be a gentleman, listen, nod his head and then do what he and Banner think is the right thing to do.
I'm confused by what you are saying.. are you saying he SHOULD listen? Are you saying the Rooney's got to where they are because they listened to the fans? Help me out here.
No, I believe he is saying that Haslam would politely pretend that what you are saying was adding value and it would be forgotten before the door closed behind you.
Quote: Head Coaches come and go and are basically meaningless in terms of success.
I don't know that I'd go so far as to call HCs meaningless. If that was the case, Indy would have a lot more than one Super Bowl win in the Manning era.
And New Orleans would have made the playoffs last season without HC Sean Payton.
I guess I could have phrased it the spoon fed marketing line passed out to the fan base.
The fans get displeased from seeing the reset button hit over and over. I think that's understandable.
Haslam stated in his initial press conference about marketing. He has done an outstanding job of that at Pilot flying J. All things being equal, it's not because the fuel there is superior to others. However, the fuel is probably equal to others.
And I believe that's why the fan base gets disgruntled. The product doesn't match up with the marketing. While I'm concerned that they either judged Chud wrong when they hired him or fired him. One or the other. I don't see it as a be all end all and say they can't succeed.
I think it's okay to voice displeasure while still hoping for the best. I don't see them as mutually exclusive.
Quote: Oh I think he cares. I think he'd love to be thought of in the same way the Rooney family is thought of in Pittsburgh.
Hopefully it doesn't take him that long to find success.
Quote: Now, does he care enough to listen to you or me or Mutt, probably not really. If the three of us stood before him and told him what he should do, I suspect he'd be a gentleman, listen, nod his head and then do what he and Banner think is the right thing to do.
I'm confused by what you are saying.. are you saying he SHOULD listen? Are you saying the Rooney's got to where they are because they listened to the fans? Help me out here.
WOW, talk about over thinking something I wasn't speaking of the Rooneys AT ALL when I said he'd not listen to us. NO REFERENCE to the Rooneys at all.
What I'm saying is that he'd be a Gentleman and listen to us lowly folks, but then do what he wants to anyway.
And I'm not saying he SHOULD listen to what any of us say. As much as some on here (at times, me included) think we know more than they (the FO) knows, truth be told, we probably don't have all the facts before us in order to make many decisions Haslam and Banner have to make.
So, I'd like it if they listen and use what's good, discard what isn't.
Quote: Oh I think he cares. I think he'd love to be thought of in the same way the Rooney family is thought of in Pittsburgh.
Hopefully it doesn't take him that long to find success.
Quote: Now, does he care enough to listen to you or me or Mutt, probably not really. If the three of us stood before him and told him what he should do, I suspect he'd be a gentleman, listen, nod his head and then do what he and Banner think is the right thing to do.
I'm confused by what you are saying.. are you saying he SHOULD listen? Are you saying the Rooney's got to where they are because they listened to the fans? Help me out here.
No, I believe he is saying that Haslam would politely pretend that what you are saying was adding value and it would be forgotten before the door closed behind you.
Quote: For me, it isn't about being a 'Drama Queen.' For 15 years, I've made a supreme effort to be anything but a 'Drama Queen.' Now, it's about results.
***********************
I've already been sold a PR package. I've already been sold the promise that "next year will be better." I've already been told to "be patient."
Vers.... I did my freakkin' job.
I've done all that The Browns have asked of me as a fan. I've done all that I could as a fan.
And I've been rewarded with.... this.
I apologize for the Drama Queen comment, but you did read what the guy wrote, right? You don't think some of these guys are being overly dramatic?
My point is really if you are that miserable, you can just leave. I have said this before, but it's not like we are children born into an abusive household. We choose to root for a team. We choose to ignore a team. We choose to dislike a team.
The key is that we have a choice. If anyone is really that miserable, why stick around?
I almost left. I despised Holmgren. I thought he would never lead us to the promised land. I could never get behind a guy who wasn't here most of the time. Who vacations during an NFL season other than that big, fat fraud? I also couldn't stand Junior. All this talk about him in Brown's PJs. The guy fired so many people that everyone lost count.
I still don't get this pure hate for a regime that has fired ONE guy. It's not adding up for me.
Well, actually it is.
I believe that most of the guys hating on this regime didn't like them coming in. I believe that most really did like the previous regime. I believe that most of the guys ragging on the current FO have been waiting for a reason to slam them. I told you this before........I didn't see this same reaction to the previous regime even though they committed one huge error after another. Sorry Clem....I ain't buying this "woe is me" routine from most posters.
Quote:
As a fellow packmate, I ask you- no, I BEG of you: please give me a reason (or list of reasons) why I should continue to follow this team, based upon its current legacy. I need your help, because I'm almost depleted of the stuff it takes to be a fan of this team.
In another post, I admitted that I was ready to 'jump ship' after 50+ years of Browns fandom, and become a Packers fan. I also have fandom for the Seattle Seahawks, based upon a bet I placed with My Father back in 1976.
I ask you: Do you REALLY think that this team can be what it takes to keep me as a fan, going forward?
Trust me- I'm not trying to put this all on you, but you do seem to have more faith in this FO than I have... and I need to understand why.
If you can give me a great answer, I might be able to extend my fandom for this team.
Please, PLEEEZE give me a reason to trust these guys...
I hope you are sincere. I think I pretty much answered this on another thread. I have always liked you, Clem............and you seem like a great, great guy..........so, I will take you at your word.
I won't tell you trust them. They are business men, just like all the business men that came before them. PT Barnum said something like: there is a butt [sic] for every seat in the house. Why would you ever trust anyone who is trying to sell you something? Do you trust the people who sell you a car? How about a mechanic? The guy who comes to fix your roof? It's business.
With that said, do you think they want to fail? Do you think it's only about money? I kinda thought that it was all about money for Junior and The Big Show. I trusted Heckert to give it his best. Not the other two. What kind of lunatic only gives interviews through emails. Did you trust his mental competence? LOL
I think Haslam is a winner. I think he has a strong desire to succeed at everything. I think people are overblowing this thing about how he lied to us. Did he, really? Did he say "I promise the fans of Cleveland that we will have continuity," or did he say something like I believe in continuity??? I do believe him when he says he wants to win. I see the fire burning in his eyes.
Banner. Well, he is a business guy and he doesn't care if he steps on people. I do think he wants to win, though. I also think he is extremely intelligent. I think he is shrewd. I think he is a tireless worker. Those are things we never had before.
Lombardi? I think he is smart. Very smart. However, I don't care for him. I hope he is pushed to the background and we bring in another guy or give Farmer more say.
I do think Haslam was pissed after the team's late-season collapse. I think he demands accountability. I would not be surprised to see Lombardi's role diminished. I guess we will know if it is or not when we see if McDaniels is hired or not. Make no mistake, McDaniels is Lombardi's guy.
Clem, I can't promise you anything. If you are really that miserable..........you should quit rooting for the team. You don't even have to find another team. Just enjoy the game of football. I hope you don't go, because I think you bring an intelligence and a wit to the board that others can't. I enjoy reading your narratives. But man, why suffer when you don't have to?
I can say that I am fairly certain that this current set-up is the best we have had since our return. That isn't saying much, but I do think that these guys are going to work a lot harder to succeed than the previous owner and regimes did.
Quote: Oh I think he cares. I think he'd love to be thought of in the same way the Rooney family is thought of in Pittsburgh. Let's face it, they don't always make popular decisions, but for the most part, the result is mostly positive.
Maybe you're right but I wouldn't wager anything on it. I'm quite sure that he doesn't care what any fans think. He knows, if he puts a quality product on the field, the fans will be there to support him. He doesn't care what the fans think of the decisions he makes. He's got more riding on the decisions than you or I think.
Quote: Jimmy knows that and probably wants that to be the case with him.
You speak about it like he views you as a peer of his. You aren't. The Rooneys are, but you aren't. I'm sure he cares more about what the Rooneys think of him than what fans think of him.
Quote: Now, does he care enough to listen to you or me or Mutt, probably not really. If the three of us stood before him and told him what he should do, I suspect he'd be a gentleman, listen, nod his head and then do what he and Banner think is the right thing to do.
He might listen to any of the fans politely and if he found any of our arguments compelling, he might actually consider them, especially if it is something that he hasn't heard before. But if he's heard a bunch of the crap on this message board being spewed at him, he'd probably ignore it altogether and walk away without giving anyone a second thought about what they had to say about the Browns.
If you spoke to something about how to improve the stadium experience and make it more enjoyable, he would probably tell you to contact Alec Scheiner or one of his underlings and that it would be considered.
Quote: He knows how to get us on his side, Just win and everything else is not nearly as important.
That's true. Just win. That's what he wants to do and I dare say that he probably knows as much as (probably more) about the evaluations process as anyone posting messages here. Somehow, I don't think that he's anywhere near the mold of Randy Lerner. I suspect that he's more along the lines of Al Lerner than Randy.
Okay Clem, w/my previous post out of the way..........please, consider this:
This FO set us up perfectly for the upcoming draft. We acquired a first round pick for a dud RB. We got a 3rd round pick for a 4th. We got a 4th for a 5th. We traded away no picks to move up in the draft. Name one other Brown's FO that was able to accomplish anything remotely close to that!
We did not overspend in free agency last year. We have the ability to keep our own free agents or replace them w/other quality free agents.
Did you really think they could have gotten a draft choice for Colt?
The Bess trade did not work out, but was it a good deal at the time or not? What did we really give up?
They scoured the free agent wire and found some decent players like Rainey and Baker. Chud cut Rainey, but he can play. Baker was better than TRich. Poyer looked pretty good. Better than Bademosi. No, those guys are not going to carry your team, but it is important to improve the bottom of your roster.
This will be a big year for them in terms of free agency and drafting. How about we see how they do before labeling them as The Three Stooges? I think it is total BS to label them as The Three Stooges because they fired a coach who clearly failed. No way was the talent on this year's team worse than Shurmur's team. Passive Pat won one more game than Chud. People are overreacting.
I wont say growth in existing players because that would imply that 1) Heckert brought in talent or 2) The coaching staff improved the players that were already here and either one of those is not toeing the company line.
Quote: you still haven't answered the question a lot of people are wondering.
if the next HC, goes 4-12, 5-11 next year, and they axe him too, should we still support them?
you keep saying you'll give this FO 3 years, but why, when they can barely give their hand picked coach 1?
Let's ask this another way. What if the new coach comes in and does 4-12, 5-11 or God forbid, worse than Chudzinski, will you be calling for the front office to continue on with them? Even if they get him a shiny new QB in the first round in the 2014 draft?
Quote: you still haven't answered the question a lot of people are wondering.
if the next HC, goes 4-12, 5-11 next year, and they axe him too, should we still support them?
you keep saying you'll give this FO 3 years, but why, when they can barely give their hand picked coach 1?
Let's ask this another way. What if the new coach comes in and does 4-12, 5-11 or God forbid, worse than Chudzinski, will you be calling for the front office to continue on with them? Even if they get him a shiny new QB in the first round in the 2014 draft?
Fire them all and bring back Chud... hell we could be the Yankees of the NFL like Steinbrenner and Martin
Quote: you still haven't answered the question a lot of people are wondering.
if the next HC, goes 4-12, 5-11 next year, and they axe him too, should we still support them?
you keep saying you'll give this FO 3 years, but why, when they can barely give their hand picked coach 1?
Let's ask this another way. What if the new coach comes in and does 4-12, 5-11 or God forbid, worse than Chudzinski, will you be calling for the front office to continue on with them? Even if they get him a shiny new QB in the first round in the 2014 draft?
i would keep the coach. just like i would've kept chud.
remember, the fans didn't set this standard, anarch, the FO did.
Oh I think he cares. I think he'd love to be thought of in the same way the Rooney family is thought of in Pittsburgh. Let's face it, they don't always make popular decisions, but for the most part, the result is mostly positive.
Maybe you're right but I wouldn't wager anything on it. I'm quite sure that he doesn't care what any fans think. He knows, if he puts a quality product on the field, the fans will be there to support him. He doesn't care what the fans think of the decisions he makes. He's got more riding on the decisions than you or I think.
Are you saying that he doesn't want to be thought of in a positive light? I'd wager that he does indeed want to be thought of in a positive way. Who wouldn't. You would lose if you bet against that one.
Quote: Quote: Jimmy knows that and probably wants that to be the case with him.
You speak about it like he views you as a peer of his. You aren't. The Rooneys are, but you aren't. I'm sure he cares more about what the Rooneys think of him than what fans think of him.
Thanks for clearing that up,, I was having visions of me being one of his peers That was one of the lamest attempts at bashing me that I think I've ever seen. wow man, just wow. I guess you feel as if you put me in my place..
He may want the Rooneys to think well of him, in fact I'd bet on that. But as far as who he wants to feel good about him more, it's the fans that pay the bills, not the Rooneys.
Quote:
Quote: Now, does he care enough to listen to you or me or Mutt, probably not really. If the three of us stood before him and told him what he should do, I suspect he'd be a gentleman, listen, nod his head and then do what he and Banner think is the right thing to do.
He might listen to any of the fans politely and if he found any of our arguments compelling, he might actually consider them, especially if it is something that he hasn't heard before. But if he's heard a bunch of the crap on this message board being spewed at him, he'd probably ignore it altogether and walk away without giving anyone a second thought about what they had to say about the Browns.
If you spoke to something about how to improve the stadium experience and make it more enjoyable, he would probably tell you to contact Alec Scheiner or one of his underlings and that it would be considered.
Smart leaders always listen to other opinions. They don't have to agree or act upon them, but listening is a good thing. I'm sure Jimmy knows that. Next time I see him at a Peer Meeting, I'll ask and let you know what he says.
Quote: Quote: He knows how to get us on his side, Just win and everything else is not nearly as important.
That's true. Just win. That's what he wants to do and I dare say that he probably knows as much as (probably more) about the evaluations process as anyone posting messages here. Somehow, I don't think that he's anywhere near the mold of Randy Lerner. I suspect that he's more along the lines of Al Lerner than Randy.
Quote: Let's ask this another way. What if the new coach comes in and does 4-12, 5-11 or God forbid, worse than Chudzinski, will you be calling for the front office to continue on with them? Even if they get him a shiny new QB in the first round in the 2014 draft?
And I believe that's a lot of the issue here.
Nobody gave Chud a "shiny new QB". As far as the O goes, they didn't give him a shiny new anything.
Just speaking for me, that's the part that I find to be baffling. You hire a guy who has never been a HC. He's an offensive minded coach. Then you put your top investments on the D side with little to any upgrade on the O side of the ball.
Was this past season a failure? I believe most fans would say it was to one degree or another. The question is more of who was responsible. And I believe there was enough blame to go around. Chud wasn't given the weapons to work with and it was shown.
We'll never know what Chud could have done here had those same top three investments have been made on the O and we had stayed with the 4-3. We can all speculate, but nobody knows.
What one would have to believe given the evidence, is that Chud should have been able to accomplish much more than he did with the talent, or lack there of depending on your point of view, than he accomplished.
What I believe we very well may see, is this FO address the O this off season. If for example, they sign a couple of FA's and a first round draft pick on the O, I can see how that will play out on this message board.
The new HC may win a few more games with a lot more talent. The we'll be told just how right this FO is. Which would be laughable to see, but expected none the less.
I believe the results of a poor O and a team let down had a lot to do with the QB position, no running game, which has everything to do with the G's, and that was an obstacle that could not have been overcome. Even if we could have gotten a consistent passing game that would have helped us be able to run. But a three QB merry go round sure wasn't on the HC.
Hopefully, everyone including those in this FO will learn and grow over time. It appears they will get that opportunity. Some just wish Chud had been given that same opportunity with some infusion of talent on the O side of the ball before being judged by those who didn't give him that talent.
Quote: i would keep the coach. just like i would've kept chud.
remember, the fans didn't set this standard, anarch, the FO did.
Well, should we have kept Crennel? Mangini? Shurmur? It seems we keep reading the same page over and over again. I'd rather turn the page.
Initially, I really didn't like the move of firing Chudzinski. I was as shocked as everyone else. As I think about it, I'm becoming more and more alright with it.
Quote: Are you saying that he doesn't want to be thought of in a positive light? I'd wager that he does indeed want to be thought of in a positive way. Who wouldn't. You would lose if you bet against that one.
I don't think he's losing any sleep over it. I think that he only wants to put an winning team and an exciting product on the field. If he does that, everything else will work it's way out.
Quote: Thanks for clearing that up,, I was having visions of me being one of his peers That was one of the lamest attempts at bashing me that I think I've ever seen. wow man, just wow. I guess you feel as if you put me in my place.
That you took it as an attempt to of bashing you makes me laugh. I wasn't trying to bash you. Just stating my opinion about how much Haslam thinks about you or your opinion.
Quote: He may want the Rooneys to think well of him, in fact I'd bet on that. But as far as who he wants to feel good about him more, it's the fans that pay the bills, not the Rooneys.
True, but the Rooney's can actually relate to being wealthy and NFL owners. You can't.
Quote: Smart leaders always listen to other opinions. They don't have to agree or act upon them, but listening is a good thing. I'm sure Jimmy knows that. Next time I see him at a Peer Meeting, I'll ask and let you know what he says.
But on a serious note, I am becoming more alright with it too. Too many games where we broke down and choked in some various fashion(s) and too many "should-have" won games. Did I think Chud was a bust? No. But do I think more progress and improvement could have occurred? Yes. We have more pro bowlers than wins. We have more All-Pro players than wins. At many games, we looked completely unprepared. The Cinci game after the bye-week is a very prime example.
Chud should have never played Weeden, at all and spare me the "we didn't know what we had in him" as you had film of all last season, a full off-season and etc. He should have benched Greg Little. He should have denoted Bess to the lowest spectrum of the roster and promoted Tyms/Cooper/anyone to replace these struggling WRs (or at least Little.) Reminds me of Romeo Crennel, just too nice and too much of a player coach to do the "right thing" or the "necessary thing".
I hate to use Rex Ryan as an example, but this dude has love from his players and he lays down the whip when needed. Playing like crap in NY? You'll get benched. Media asked you a question, it is told as-is. No "oh we have a lot of faith in so-n-so and trust him to bounce back". Well, when you keep saying a guy is going to bounce back and doesn't and you're the boss pretty much, you for sure aren't helping yourself by any standards.
Clearly the front office didn't see leadership and heck, if that sort of thing wasn't there in the first year - there is minimal to no evidence to suggest it would change the next year.
All JMO, but I can almost bet Chud won't be getting any phone calls about coaching vacancies... and maybe that holds true for the his complete duration of being in the NFL.
Quote: i would keep the coach. just like i would've kept chud.
remember, the fans didn't set this standard, anarch, the FO did.
Well, should we have kept Crennel? Mangini? Shurmur? It seems we keep reading the same page over and over again. I'd rather turn the page.
Initially, I really didn't like the move of firing Chudzinski. I was as shocked as everyone else. As I think about it, I'm becoming more and more alright with it.
I'm not a fan of the firing, although I'm sure some of that has to do with the disappointment of thinking that with JH we were done with this firing coaches crap. I thought he was going to come in. Pick his guy, and that would be it. He'd get 4 years to turn this thing around.
I can see both sides. Chud only got a year, and had some of the worst QB play we've ever seen. It has to at least somewhat bother you that he could have been a good coach with a real QB.
On the flip side, how many games did we blow this year? Guys not making plays in crunch time. Haden getting beat against Jax, Bess dropping a punt and a 4th down pass in KC, Weeden not being able to make big plays in the 4th quarter of Miami, Baltimore, Detroit, etc...
The team did not get better as the season progressed. Individually, we just didn't see it.
The total team meltdowns were probably the capper. The Cincinnati game, the Bears game, and most especially, the Patriots game. Yeah, I can see that side too.
I agree with everything you said except for the Weeden thing. I too am slowly coming around, but, like most, it depends on who we get.
If Weeden wasn't supposed to be starting, then we should've made a real move to get someone else. Jason Campbell and Brian Hoyer says that you want to roll with Weeden and see what happens, but have a backup plan. Remember, we're talking about "the consensus" here. If they wanted to not play Weeden, they should've got someone that was obviously better (and don't say Hoyer, because hindsight is 20/20).
Quote: I agree with everything you said except for the Weeden thing. I too am slowly coming around, but, like most, it depends on who we get.
If Weeden wasn't supposed to be starting, then we should've made a real move to get someone else. Jason Campbell and Brian Hoyer says that you want to roll with Weeden and see what happens, but have a backup plan. Remember, we're talking about "the consensus" here. If they wanted to not play Weeden, they should've got someone that was obviously better (and don't say Hoyer, because hindsight is 20/20).
Yeah, but good QB's don't just go up in free agency.
You could have traded for Alex Smith, but that's about it, and I'm not sure Alex Smith would have been good here. He's been good in KC because of their good run game. We don't have one to speak of.
From what the beat reporters say, and we have to go by that, because we don't get to see it, they all say Weeden looks unbelievable in practice. When it's for real, and a pass rush exists, he goes into his shell. He's not an NFL QB and I think they found that out when they stuck Hoyer in there, and Hoyer looked competent.
We had one touchdown through 2 games, and it was in the two minute drill before halftime against Miami. Baltimore and Miami were playoff contending teams, but in a down year for the AFC. You have to do better than that. Those 2 games are on Weeden. I can't fault Chud for those.
I have to fault Chud for the Cincinnati game, the Bears game, and the New England fiasco (even if the Refs gave New England the winning TD). I'm not saying this is directly his fault, because players play the game, but when that stuff happens multiple times, the head coach is going to get the finger pointed at him.
I think even more than a coach, this team needs to look in the mirror. They need to stop talking about turning this around, and how they are tired of losing, and just go out and do it. They want to talk the talk, but they don't want to walk it. They're the furthest thing from being mentally tough. I have a feeling those guys have left the field multiples thinking they hadn't given it everything they could have. That's not on the coach. It's not his job to motivate you. This isn't high school football, you're being paid.
Quote: Just speaking for me, that's the part that I find to be baffling. You hire a guy who has never been a HC. He's an offensive minded coach. Then you put your top investments on the D side with little to any upgrade on the O side of the ball.
That's part of what gets me about his firing. But I just thought of something. Kelly appears to have been the target for Banner and Haslam, they don't get him and he goes to Philly and ends the season with a wildcard berth. But he started out with the same record as us.
Then his QB goes down and in steps Nick Foles and bam, wins just started to add up.
The same thing kinda happened here with Hoyer. You have to ask yourself, if Hoyer doesn't go down and he keeps playing like he did in those games he started, are we in the playoffs like Philly?
I know, lots of ifs and buts.. But I just wondered about that.
In either case, I don't know if we would have made the playoffs, but I think we'd have done better than 4 wins.. just a guess of course.
Quote: Are you saying that he doesn't want to be thought of in a positive light? I'd wager that he does indeed want to be thought of in a positive way. Who wouldn't. You would lose if you bet against that one.
I don't think he's losing any sleep over it. I think that he only wants to put an winning team and an exciting product on the field. If he does that, everything else will work it's way out.
Quote: Thanks for clearing that up,, I was having visions of me being one of his peers That was one of the lamest attempts at bashing me that I think I've ever seen. wow man, just wow. I guess you feel as if you put me in my place.
That you took it as an attempt to of bashing you makes me laugh. I wasn't trying to bash you. Just stating my opinion about how much Haslam thinks about you or your opinion.
Quote: He may want the Rooneys to think well of him, in fact I'd bet on that. But as far as who he wants to feel good about him more, it's the fans that pay the bills, not the Rooneys.
True, but the Rooney's can actually relate to being wealthy and NFL owners. You can't.
Quote: Smart leaders always listen to other opinions. They don't have to agree or act upon them, but listening is a good thing. I'm sure Jimmy knows that. Next time I see him at a Peer Meeting, I'll ask and let you know what he says.
True, but smart leaders know WHO to listen to.
Oh Brother, talking to you is like talking to a brick wall
Agreed Daman. I think we are at the very least a 7-8 win team with Hoyer at QB.
I I think this team made a big mistake firing Chud after only 1 year. Those blaming Chud for this year's recard and so called "lack of improvement" are just as clueless as this Front Office has shown so far.
Chud did the best anyone could do with what he had....playing 3 different QB's, it was just a mess....Bill Walsh couldn't win more then 4-5 games last year with our situation, especially at QB.
The defensive breaks downs late are more on the players then anything else...Horton had solid plans in all those games, you look at the film and nearly every 4th quarter collapse we had was due to players being out of position and not being in their correct zone, poor tackling, and taking poor angles...that's on the players plain and simple...a coach can lay out a solid game plan, and coach it to the players, but its up to the players to get it done, and they didn't....but lets just fire the coach because...well why not?! (this rant isn't directed at your Daman)
Speaking of improvements.....lets see here
did Chud and Turner not improve Josh Gordon? leading him to leading the league in receiving?
How about Jordan Cameron...no one outside of Cleveland even knew who this kid was until this year thanks to Chud and Turner....
Did I mention Chud and Turner improved Gordon and Camereon all while having to use 3 different QB?
How about Joe Haden? He finally gets national recognition thanks to Chud and Horton
there was a lot of improvements on this team from last year to this year....we had a really bright future moving forward with Chud and staff....had this FO not knee jerked and allowed Chud and Norv to get a QB and actually fix the running game (all doable in an offseason mind you) this team would be headed to playoffs next year.
Sadly, in typical Cleveland fashion the FO knee jerks and pulls the rugs out from under something special...your never going to grow a tree if you keep digging up the seeds every other month and replanting them....
I really hope this FO picks someone and actually gives them 4-5 years to actually do something...im so tired of starting over every year just for the sake of starting over...its getting old....
I trusted this front office early on, but now so far, they have shown me they are no different then the previous regimes...the ball is in their court now...its up to them to regain the fans trusts by actually sticking with whomever they hire for a change and allowing the seeds they plant to actually grow and come to harvest.
Quote: In either case, I don't know if we would have made the playoffs, but I think we'd have done better than 4 wins.. just a guess of course.
That's kind of my guess as well. I'm not sure if we get to the playoffs but we would have looked better, won more games... best of all we would have a better feeling for what we had in Hoyer going into next season.
My point was simply that 1+1 doesn't equal 2 in this situation. You have "the consensus" making the decision to roll with the QBs that we did, but, surprise surprise, all of them get injured and/or stink up the joint. Lack of improvement at the QB position, but what was the expectation? Lack of improvement at the RB position, but what was expected there after they got rid of TRich and replaced him with the guys we had? Say what you want about TRich, but he was a threat, and miles ahead of the other guys we trotted out there, with a possible exception of Baker. And you could go on and on like this for many other positions on the team.
If you take all the information at face value, it just doesn't add up. The mental toughness of the team argument is valid, but I don't think it justifies firing a rookie HC in his first year.
I think this all points to something bigger that was going on behind the scenes. Maybe not as salacious as whatever happened to Kokinis, but something along those lines. Vers and a couple other posters mentioned this as a possibility, and I think it's the only thing that makes sense.
My point was simply that 1+1 doesn't equal 2 in this situation. You have "the consensus" making the decision to roll with the QBs that we did, but, surprise surprise, all of them get injured and/or stink up the joint. Lack of improvement at the QB position, but what was the expectation? Lack of improvement at the RB position, but what was expected there after they got rid of TRich and replaced him with the guys we had? Say what you want about TRich, but he was a threat, and miles ahead of the other guys we trotted out there, with a possible exception of Baker. And you could go on and on like this for many other positions on the team.
If you take all the information at face value, it just doesn't add up. The mental toughness of the team argument is valid, but I don't think it justifies firing a rookie HC in his first year.
I think this all points to something bigger that was going on behind the scenes. Maybe not as salacious as whatever happened to Kokinis, but something along those lines. Vers and a couple other posters mentioned this as a possibility, and I think it's the only thing that makes sense.
I don't really know if there is anything that justifies firing a coach in his first year.
I just feel like I'm more upset not because I like Chud (which I do, I believe in his schemes), but because I thought we were finally past firing coaches early.
I will always come back to this organization needing a big boost at QB. It buys everybody time. From the owner on down.
We'll probably keep firing coaches every couple years if we don't get someone good at QB. That's not to say we don't have other needs, because we have many, but QB will solve some of them, on top of getting this team out of the gutter.
Quote: If Weeden wasn't supposed to be starting, then we should've made a real move to get someone else. Jason Campbell and Brian Hoyer says that you want to roll with Weeden and see what happens, but have a backup plan. Remember, we're talking about "the consensus" here. If they wanted to not play Weeden, they should've got someone that was obviously better (and don't say Hoyer, because hindsight is 20/20).
Kind of hard to retort this. But, just b/c a class-signing like Alex Smith or some vet QB other than Campbell didn't occur, doesn't mean it's "ride it out with whoever" then. We have to take into effect the full offseason. I find it extremely hard to fathom that Weeden outplayed Hoyer at the start of camp. I mean in all honestly, I just can't see it as being true. Find it hard he outplayed Jason even and we're talking about coaches who live, judge and see this stuff daily, especially Norv.
It was like a mind was made to play Brandon and there was nothing, other than a few flipper INTs, to change that. I doubt Banner/Haslam forced Chud to play Brandon on a trail-and-see bases.
But to side along with what you said, who knows how Weeden would have responded in Norv's system which is night-n-day different from Pat's. It does seem they made the signings as cushion/backup. So it's hard to say someone was 100% right, or 100% wrong by playing Brandon. I am sure if Chud had magical glasses to see into the future, Brandon would have been third string QB since minute one. But even at this case, Weeden was still extended a far too generous opportunity. IMO, he didn't do enough last year to warrant any type of "yeah we are going to roll with him for sure" thought patterns. Which was the case cause he was granted first team reps from day one with Chud.
It's like push-n-pull argument. noone really right or wrong on the topic at hand
Quote: That's part of what gets me about his firing. But I just thought of something. Kelly appears to have been the target for Banner and Haslam, they don't get him and he goes to Philly and ends the season with a wildcard berth. But he started out with the same record as us.
Then his QB goes down and in steps Nick Foles and bam, wins just started to add up.
The same thing kinda happened here with Hoyer. You have to ask yourself, if Hoyer doesn't go down and he keeps playing like he did in those games he started, are we in the playoffs like Philly?
Yes the emergence of Foles who ended up with the best regular season QBR rating in the league was certainly a shot in the arm for Kelly. When you combine that with having Shady McCoy as both a rushing and passing weapon, it sealed the deal.
Quote: In either case, I don't know if we would have made the playoffs, but I think we'd have done better than 4 wins.. just a guess of course.
I believe if Hoyer had stayed healthy and played to that same level, we would have won more games. And people can disagree, the team seemed more energized when he was playing QB.
We still wouldn't have been as complete of an O as Philly is with McCoy. He adds another demension to the O in Philly we simply didn't have with or without Hoyer continuing to produce.
Kelly knew Philly had the weapons he needed far more than the Browns did .Sure, Foles was a question mark but Vick was a much better fit to run his O than Weeden or Campbell. I really don't believe for a second that Kelly would have faired much if any better than Chud did here.
I do believe since Kelly was their first choice, they would likely have been a little more patient with him though. At least one would hope.
Quote: Kelly knew Philly had the weapons he needed far more than the Browns did .Sure, Foles was a question mark but Vick was a much better fit to run his O than Weeden or Campbell. I really don't believe for a second that Kelly would have faired much if any better than Chud did here.
I think we see things pretty much the same way.
Of course, when we were trying to hire Kelly, our QB's were Weeden, McCoy and someone else who's name escapes me at the moment.
It's so hard to tell, maybe Kelly would have found a way to make TRich a better back. Doubtful, but possible. Him with Hoyer, who knows?
I just can't get past the raw deal that Chud got.
I've always (and you all know this) been a glass half full kinda guy. I've always kept a positive attitude about the upcoming season.
Honestly, I think for the very first time, I can't find a silver lining. It's killing me. I love silver linings LOL
It took a moment to reflect, But I understood Hoyer jumping over Campbell. We saw the proof.
It took more reflection to understand the TRich trade, but now it looks like genius.
But this firing of Chud and basically his staff after they committed to building a long term and stable team, boy that just chaps my butt.
They (the FO and ownership) is going to have a tough time convincing me of anything going forward.
I was more shocked than outraged. I thought it was stupid and knee jerk reaction from an organizational point of view, but not necessarily unwarranted. I posted soon after the firing that I thought Horton's D was unimpressive and crumbled the second half of the season, and that Norv's O was uninspired and ineffective. All of that falls under the purview of the HC and should have been addressed during game planning.
Granted the FO bears much of the responsibility for the failings of the team this year with their many manipulations of the roster, their refusal or inability to find a RB, their only average off season, their unwillingness to consider more qualified coaching candidates, and their willingness to settle for their third or forth choice when they did hire a coach.
Taking all of that into account, we're here now and we have no choice but to move on, and can only hope that they hire the right coach, put together a successful draft, find a franchise QB, have a successful FA period, and get their collective $#!% together. Not much to ask for, is it?
Quote: I was more shocked than outraged. I thought it was stupid and knee jerk reaction from an organizational point of view,
That was my reaction.. pretty much like my reaction to the trading of Trent... Once the shock wore off and you really started thinking about it... it wasn't as silly as it first seemed.
Quote: Kelly knew Philly had the weapons he needed far more than the Browns did
Here's a little read from Kelly...
The maiden NFL voyage of Chip Kelly was a success.
Kelly might be reticent to say as much so soon after the Philadelphia Eagles were bounced out of the first round of the NFL playoffs. But the Eagles went from 4-12 to 10-6, proof the coach's principles could translate on the next level.
On Monday, Kelly acknowledged he wasn't sure his approach would work when he took the Eagles job last January.
"I wasn't confident," Kelly said, via ESPN.com. "I had a system and a plan that we were going to go in, but I didn't know what the outcome was going to be until it was all finished. But I think we played sound fundamental football, and I think that's what we preach on a daily basis to our players.
"I think it's still a game of 11-on-11, and I think a lot of things we do schematically match up 11-on-11 and it's a fundamental game and I think that's what our coaches teach."
Keep an eye on the Eagles this offseason. Kelly said his offense is built around the personnel, and he has a full offseason to cultivate a roster that best fits what he likes to do. Nick Foles is The Man in Philadelphia, but don't be surprised if Kelly makes significant changes around his franchise quarterback.
Philly's offense might have a much different look by the next time we see it.
I agree with what he said. In saying that, I also feel it's fair to say he chose the team that best fit what he wanted to run going into it.
While it isn't exactly what he ran at Oregon, it's eerily similar. I certainly don't blame the man. If I have a choice, I'm going to take the job I feel gives me the best chance to succeed, with a team of talent best suited to run the system I believe will be best.
If his only choice would have been a HC in Cleveland, he would have had to drastically have changed that system given what he had to work with here to have had any chance to succeed.
For all we know, it could be a lack of commitment to get him the talent he wanted in last years draft and FA signing period that swayed his decision. We'll never know.
I'm glad you took the time to respond. This was a good post to read... as was your follow-up. Both do a great job of explaining why you view this bunch as you do. These are the kinds of posts I look forward to reading. They make me think outside of where my mind lives. It's what keeps me coming back to this place.
I'm also glad I asked in the public forum, and not in a PM... because I got to read DC's thoughts on sticking around, too. They added a nice balance to what you were saying.
Together, those posts are giving me a reason to look again at our situation and the folks who will navigate it. I'm not 'won over' by any means... but I am a bit happier with my choice of committing through the 2014 season- and hopefully with as open a mind as I can muster.
For the record, I really haven't been on a hate campaign regarding these guys. To be honest, I only knew of them what was written in the background stories and op-eds that accompanied their entrance into Browns World. Jimmy Haslam was off my radar until he bought the team from Randy. Banner was some guy from Philly, and Lombardi was this talking head on TV that had a spotty pro record and 5 years out of The Game.
So... I was skeptical- mainly because I was seeing 3 Major Dudes who were all trying on their respective hats for the first time. "Rookie Time" I thought... and was not optimistic about what they might do.
Like I said in an earlier post- I liked some of what I saw, early on. I thought ChudNorvRay was a combo that might make some things happen, given enough time and resources. I was cool with the choice to go D last offseason. I was OK with the 'evaluation year' concept, and even embraced it as the smartest way to go. Even after the games played out as they did, I wanted to see what ChudNorvRay could do with another offseason and improved weapons.
Then... the bombshell.
"Mr Consistency" (A.K.A.: Clemdawg) was nut-punched. Again. In the same way he'd been punk'd so many, many (sigh- many) times before.
I won't lie to you, I felt totally betrayed when I heard the news. And it's not because I was some Chud fanboy or Walrus homer... it was because I could see yet another total reset.... after we'd been promised the opposite.
One. More. Time.
_______________________
I'm still here. I made the commitment to 2014, and I'm sticking to it. It's just how I was raised. Make a promise/keep a promise.
I'm not so miserable that I can't give another year to this team. Hell, I've given them my support for more than a half-century... what's one more year?
I hope this current administration understands that there is more at stake than just hitting on a few picks. I hope they understand that fans like me will hang on for 'yet another year,' if they can make sense of the decisions they see... but won't 'hang on' forever.
Browns fans have been the 'Golden Goose' for businessmen since Art Modell bought ownership rights in 1961. That goose in in real danger of flying the coop if this current group doesn't clock a bunch of great decisions, and nail down a winning formula. On this board alone, there's me and a host of folks who are losing faith. One poster recently admitted that he's encouraging his kids to support other teams.
I like what you wrote. It's all common sense, and bodes well for this team- on paper. I hope it translates to a productive offseason and a better product on the field. That said, they're way behind the rest of the division in terms of prep, because the don't even have a coaching staff yet... and that's on them. Lots to do between now and TC. I really hope they're up to the task.
This is a completely ridiculous thing I believe but I'll say it anyways.
I really hope they hire a coach who is in shape. I hate watching the highest level of professional athletics coached by fat slobs. Granted Banner and Lombardi are the opposite of photogenic so that would need some work, but they never touch the field. When it comes to properly relating to a bunch of highly tuned athletes I have to think being even marginally in command of your physical body has some value.
This is a completely ridiculous thing I believe but I'll say it anyways.
I really hope they hire a coach who is in shape. I hate watching the highest level of professional athletics coached by fat slobs. Granted Banner and Lombardi are the opposite of photogenic so that would need some work, but they never touch the field. When it comes to properly relating to a bunch of highly tuned athletes I have to think being even marginally in command of your physical body has some value.
This is a completely ridiculous thing I believe but I'll say it anyways.
I really hope they hire a coach who is in shape. I hate watching the highest level of professional athletics coached by fat slobs. Granted Banner and Lombardi are the opposite of photogenic so that would need some work, but they never touch the field. When it comes to properly relating to a bunch of highly tuned athletes I have to think being even marginally in command of your physical body has some value.
So that's a no on Mark Mangino?
Iowa State just snatched him up and you just don't leave Ames for the NFL.
This is a completely ridiculous thing I believe but I'll say it anyways.
I really hope they hire a coach who is in shape. I hate watching the highest level of professional athletics coached by fat slobs. Granted Banner and Lombardi are the opposite of photogenic so that would need some work, but they never touch the field. When it comes to properly relating to a bunch of highly tuned athletes I have to think being even marginally in command of your physical body has some value.
So that's a no on Mark Mangino?
Holy crap. That guy looks like Mark Dantonio ate Eric Mangini....and then had Holmgren for dessert.
Quote: While it isn't exactly what he ran at Oregon, it's eerily similar. I certainly don't blame the man. If I have a choice, I'm going to take the job I feel gives me the best chance to succeed, with a team of talent best suited to run the system I believe will be best.
I agree and I don't begrudge him choosing Philly.. in fact I was sort of glad he did because I didn't want the Browns to be his experimental playground...... With that said, I think he got completely lucky when 3rd round pick Nick Foles stepped in for an injured Vick and played almost flawlessly... no way did he see that coming any more than we saw Brian Hoyer coming... heck at the beginning of the season, when they hired Kelly, the conversation was about trading Foles because he was going to be a fish out of water running the system Kelly wanted to run..
So I will give him credit for getting them to the playoffs, but I think he got quite lucky... when a 3rd round pick comes in for his second season after starting just 6 games (very pedestrian numbers by the way) and posts a 120 QBR and only throws 2 INTs in 320 attempts... yea, there is some luck in walking into that.
Normally that statement would be true,but these are not normal times.He just left the garden city of Youngstown and the effervescent personality of Coach Wolford for Ames.So lets not close the book on Mangino just yet.
Clem, I feel your pain and I know you aren't one of the guys being hateful. You are simply disappointed. Extremely disappointed.
I was, too. I am getting over it, much like DC is. It's kinda like the TRich trade. The initial shock was very depressing, but once you really start to think about it, it's not all that bad.
Please don't misinterpret that to mean I believe that translates into success. They screwed up. They either fired the guy too early or they hired the wrong guy. They made a mistake. I am leaning towards they hired the wrong guy and they didn't compound the problem by keeping him around.
I'm glad you are sticking it out. I was serious earlier when I said that I absolutely enjoy reading your posts. I love guys who spin a different perspective on things. I love your wit. I love your command of the English language and the level-headed nature of your posts.
Man, we are a loyal bunch. I hope this team wins just to finally give this loyal fan base some joy. I think this is what Banner and some of the other guys in the FO who came here last year were talking about. Winning is great, but winning in Cleveland would be unbelievable. They know they would be heroes forever. Can you imagine if a regime finally provided us w/a winner? It is my wish that guys like you get to see that dream come true.
We have a chance here. If we secure a bright coach and snag a franchise qb this year---and we are in position to just that---we can be well on our way to being a successful franchise. This off season is so huge.
I've been thinking a lot about this. Teddy is my favorite qb in this draft, but I am beginning to believe that Johnny Manziel might be our best bet. This team needs a culture change. The players have accepted losing. The games didn't matter enough for them last year. This has to change. And Johnny Football has that innate and unique ability to change the environment. It is a gift and not many have it. This guy does have it. Pair him w/a motivational coach who is an innovator........and you have just trapped magic in a bottle.
It's right there for us. Now, all they have to do is get it done.
Quote: I won't lie to you, I felt totally betrayed when I heard the news. And it's not because I was some Chud fanboy or Walrus homer... it was because I could see yet another total reset.... after we'd been promised the opposite.
One. More. Time.
Clem, that's just how I feel/felt. It really had nothing to do with me being a huge Chud fan by any means. I took as more of an indictment on the FO and their decision making capabilities.
To me it was…"Same old Browns" after I had such high initial hope when Haslem introduced himself as the new owner. He seemed like a guy full of energy and promise compared to what we had all experienced during the Lerner reign. Now, it seems to me we're watching the same movie again. Hope they prove me wrong, I'm not overly confident however.
Especially when you read everything that's been written not only this board, but by the local media...and to a much lesser extent (cuz they don't care about us) the major media.
If they make a mistake this time...and things don't look to improve...and relatively quickly...we may see some really strong apathy from this fanbase. For the first time since maybe ever...you may see this team experience blackouts, and/or the threat of blackouts.
I myself was very excited to go to games next year. I made it to two this year, and was excited to try to get to 2 or 3 next year...but, that's taken a big back seat...I'm to a point where I'm not spending that time and money to go see something not worth my time. Yea tailgating is fun, but the money spent to go inside and watch the game...taking up that whole Sunday...to drive home tired feeling like I just need sleep, and to struggle through the next couple days because I woke up at 430a to get there by 730-8 to make breakfast and have drinks before the game...and then go inside and watch probably a poor result...Then not get home til 7-8p and that's it for my day...then wake up exhausted the next two days...
Na...
If they don't get it right this time. This fanbase is going to disappear from the stadium on Sundays very quickly.
Quote: So you believe the Rooney's advice would be to fire the HC after one season?
No, but remember that when Chudzinski was hired, he was 'highly talked about' by sources within the league.
Considering that he was a minority owner in the Stoolers before purchasing the Browns, Haslam probably actually asked Putzburgh ownership and front office personnel about their thoughts about Chudzinski.
Quote: As I think about it, I'm becoming more and more alright with it.
Because you have no other choice.
Not really. I could bitch and moan about it. I was rather ambivalent about it. I really didn't care one way or the other since the first moment that I heard/read about it.
Quote: Would be nice to have someone come in here and give this team an Identity....
Which begs to question.
Can a coach without talent bring in an "identity"?
Given we had no run game and went through three QB's, I guess the question is, how would any HC have established an identity for this team?
Much like I discussed that Kelly had the players, and some luck with Foles to run his system, now they have an identity. Shady at RB and Foles at QB played a huge part in that.
Now if you give a HC the players to help him execute his system, then an identity can be established. But IMO, you can't have one without the other.
You can't have an identity without good QB play, and that includes having a guy smart enough not to get hurt.
We can't even keep a guy up for 16 games.
I thought when Harbaugh took over SF he gave that team a much tougher, grittier identity, he also got Alex Smith to play to his potential, which isn't Brady or Manning or anything, but obviously good enough to go far in the playoffs.
Quote: You can't have an identity without good QB play, and that includes having a guy smart enough not to get hurt.
Which is why I believe that those that have tried to indicate that a HC can change the culture would be incorrect.
I believe that having a QB who can slide and has the smarts to know when to use that ability is a positive. But with dirty hits and freak plays, I don't believe there's a sure fire way you can be certain that a QB won't be hurt.
Quote: I thought when Harbaugh took over SF he gave that team a much tougher, grittier identity, he also got Alex Smith to play to his potential, which isn't Brady or Manning or anything, but obviously good enough to go far in the playoffs.
Which is what I believe we saw with Chud when Hoyer started. Not saying Hoyer would be playing that way for the long term, but while he was playing to a decent level, I believe the team played with a lot more fire and intensity.
I just believe we saw the team playing more intense. Which I believe was something that could have been built upon. We'll never know what Chud could have done had he been given the weapons to work with.
I did like the glimpse I saw with Hoyer at QB though and it makes me wonder if Hoyer had remained healthy and productive, how much differently the outcome would have been.
We will never know, we had such a small sample of Hoyer. 2 games isn't enough. Jason Campbell looked really good in his first 2 starts too...
Every QB gets hurt, other than Favre, who always came off as a dumbass but was incredibly smart about his body on the field. The good ones avoid is more than the rest. Brady just had the one year where the guy rolled into him, Manning had just that one year with the lingering neck issue...
Brees had his one issue in SD, and Rodgers had just a few games this year.
I'm going to lock this thread, anyone can feel free to start a new one. When we decided to go with unlimited pages we were not aware of how this would effect people accessing the board on phones, etc. It's not working for those folks at all.
We will now be locking threads at 10 pages, and as always, posters can start a new thread if there is still interest in discussing the topic.
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noone really right or wrong on the topic at hand