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Aside from upsetting the players and the fan base I don't think firing the coach has much of an impact.
Won't make an impact? We'll have to go through the process of changing schemes and acquiring players to FIT the new schemes....again..... What if the new HC is a 4-3 guy? Back to the 4-3 we go.... Bryant and Kruger quickly become the proverbial . on a bull.
I would be SHOCKED if we hire someone that wants to shift to a 4-3. That would make zero sense. But Bryant did play in a 4-3 in Oakland IIRC. He wasn't bad at it.
I'll tell you who would become obsolete is Mingo. I'm not sure he can be a 4-3DE at this level even though he did it at LSU.... To little, IMO
i think mingo MIGHT in the 4-3 as a DE. with 4 D-linemen, he might excel at having to mostly beat one guy, seeing as rubin and taylor normally command double teams.
They better hope Mingo can play SLB if they go to a 4-3, much like they realized they have to do with Dion Jordan in Miami (and like I said Jordan would have to do pre-draft.) No way is he playing DE in a 4-3 at 240 pounds.
I feel the same way. Did Desmond Bryant play DE in Oakland...?
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he played tackle for them
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For the record, here is the top of McShay's mock.
Houston: Teddy
St. Louis: Jake Matthews
Oakland: Bortles
Browns: Manziel
McDaniel and Manziel sounds like the match (good or not) I can see them going with. However, McDaniel has one strike against him in Denver and would he want to take this job which if/ when he failed could mostly likely be his last shot.
I don't see what they can offer a higher level candidate because you can bet the farm FULL CONTROL is NOT on the table!
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anyway, i just watched the presser again in its entirety
thoughts:
haslam's facial expressions were epic. i laughed the entire way through.
... lol, this alone is going to make me watch the presser once I get home and chillaxed...
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he played tackle for them
I honestly am starting to think we cut Rubin. If we switch to a 4-3 it makes sense. We'd have a massive log jam at DT. Rubin is making 8 mil too.
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Failure is a tough word, and I hope I didn't make that strong a statement....not saying I didn't come across that way just not what I intended. What I was trying to say is that there was some merit to what was being reported about this team regressing. We were 3-2 and then proceeded to lose 10 out of the next 11 games........including the likes of the Jags and Jets. I also felt that there was some merit to the comments that Vers made about guys quitting.
well that's the first piece of BS ... Vers used Gordon as an example of players quitting ... Gordon is a lazy POS that's been taking plays off since his first game back .. its been well documented on here by Vers long before everyone started saying the team quit on him ... and I for one ... DID NOT SEE THAT ...
I got a question for U ... u say this team quit ... well one of the biggest gripes about this teams performances is that they gave up leads in the 4th quarter ... well if the players quit on him ... WHY DID WE COME OUT OF THE GATE STRONG EVERY WEEK??? ... seriously .... did we get lucky every week to start games??? ... or did the players quit AFTER WE BUILT LEADS IN ALMOST EVERY GAME????? ... seems like an odd time to quit to me ... players usually don't quit WHEN THERE AHEAD .. THEY QUIT WHEN THERE BEHIND ...
now .. if u want to talk about adjustments ... I can't say a word about that without being a hypocrite cause the FACT IS we didn't do well there ... but bro .. I see NO FACTS TO SUPPORT our players quitting .. THE SEQUENCE OF THE GAMES JUST DOESN'T FIT THAT SCENARIO .... it makes NO SENSE BRO ...
IMO guys were playing just as hard in game 5 as they did in game 16 ... obviously theres a natural downward projection of someones play the further out of it U fall ... your just not going to get as up for a game when your 3 - 8 as u are if your even 5 - 6 ... its just HUMAN NATURE ... I don't buy into the team quit on him .... that's just BS IMO ...
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Look at the Jags bro, that team was 0-8 and left for dead, but they got better and finished 4-4......they never quit on their HC (to his credit). We are more talented than the Jags, but consistently found new and exciting ways to lose games.
your busy with your boys bro so u don't have time to do your homework ... so i'll help u out ... 
1st off how do we have way more talent than the Jags??? ... we may have at the start of the season but not at the end ...
We had T-Rich ... they had MJD ... we traded T-Rich (great trade BTW) .. they kept MJD ... when MJD went down they had the rookie Todman to put in ... who did we have??? ..... we had NOTHING until Baker showed up .... and he was an improvement but I don't see him being a feature back ANYWHERE anytime soon ...
so we lost our only running back for the last 14 games of the year .. they lost there RB for 1 game and had an adequate replacement for him ....
then theres the QB situations ... ours went from bad to way better to horrible ... way better had 2.5 games ... that's it ... there,QB situation actually IMPROVED because of the injury to Gabbert .. u wanna say that Chud messed up starting weeds .. go ahead .. I disagree cause we needed to see what we had in weeds and u can't do that with him on the bench ... but u know what .. i'll give u that ... lets put a check mark in the mistake box on that one for chud ... well they did the same thing in J-Ville ... they started gabbert even though hes as bad as Weeds cause they wanted to see what they had ... then Gabbert gets hurt and there forced to go to henne ... henne's not all pro by any stretch .. hes actually pretty bad ... but I'd take him over Weeds or Campbell in a heartbeat ..
so there injury at QB ACTUALY HELPED THEM ... where as our first injury helped us but the 2nd one DESTROYED US!!!
there QB play got better with the injury ... ours went to hell after the 2nd injury ..
they also went out and picked up Justin babin this year ... where as we picked up willis mcgahee ... *LOL* ...
at the beginning of the year .. I would agree we had way more talent ... at the end of they year ... naaaa ... we have had more but not by a lot ... and we certainly didn't have more at the QB position witch is HUGE ... and if u have a hole at QB a good running game is your best friend ... and we had NO RB either ...
this org. comparing Chud to other org's with 1st year coaches is TOTAL BS ... every org. is different and ALL SURONDING CIRCUMSTANCES were very different ..,, this is just our A-holes grasping at straws to keep folks from following the bouncing ball ...
and u say the jags didn't quit on there coach .... well u must not have watcdhed yesterdays game against the colts .. cause if u did u would be signing a different tune bro ... I have no clue weather they quit or not .. but they sure got there asses handed to them by a team that IMO is not very good most weeks ..
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the crap Ryan takes for the Jets, that guys get's the most out of that crap roster he has...kudos to him.
I agree on this one ... I am not a ryan fan at all ... but I said half way through the year he should coach of the year for the job hes doing there ... when they were saying he might be fired I was *LMAO* ... caue the Jets have another dysfunctional FO so I thought ... ya .. they might do it .. *L* ..
he did a great job THIS YEAR ... not sure how that equates to what Chud did ... entirely different situations ... veteran laden roster vs young roster ... all new systems and coaches in c-town ... not sure if the jets had any turnover on O but I know they didn't on D cause Ryan runs that show .. and the D is what led this team ...
so I guess u got me there ... *shrugs* ...
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We also held the lead in countless games in the 1st half only to get our butt handed to us in the 2nd half.........depth?? maybe, but it happened in the 1st few games to before the injuries mounted.
it had sumptin to do with depth .. no doubt ... the real culprit to me there is that we either sucked at adjustments or when they made there adjustments we didn't have the talent to combat them ... I have no clue on that one ..
like I said earlier ... if u want to crush them for adjustments ... they either just got out coached or they didn't have the talent to adjust when the other tames made there adjustments ...
but the fact we came out of the gate swinging tells me that NO ONE GAVE UP ... and U can't dispute we got up in most games and that's a weird trait for a team that's given up ...
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My problem with the firing is he was never a chance to correct his deficiencies and grow as a HC.........and most importantly if he is this bad that he needs fired after 1 year then why did the stooges hire him to begin with???.........where's the accountability for that crap.
DING DING DING .... this wreaks of Chud not agreeing with Lombardi and one had to go and of course weasel #2 (Banner) got rid of Chud ...
Thanks for your thoughts on O'Brien ... I know nuttin about the guy ... just wanted to know what u liked about him ... not gonna comment on here cause I don't want to get involved with the peanut gallery over O'Brien ...
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Failure is a tough word, and I hope I didn't make that strong a statement....not saying I didn't come across that way just not what I intended. What I was trying to say is that there was some merit to what was being reported about this team regressing. We were 3-2 and then proceeded to lose 10 out of the next 11 games........including the likes of the Jags and Jets. I also felt that there was some merit to the comments that Vers made about guys quitting.
well that's the first piece of BS ... Vers used Gordon as an example of players quitting ... Gordon is a lazy POS that's been taking plays off since his first game back .. its been well documented on here by Vers long before everyone started saying the team quit on him ... and I for one ... DID NOT SEE THAT ...
I got a question for U ... u say this team quit ... well one of the biggest gripes about this teams performances is that they gave up leads in the 4th quarter ... well if the players quit on him ... WHY DID WE COME OUT OF THE GATE STRONG EVERY WEEK??? ... seriously .... did we get lucky every week to start games??? ... or did the players quit AFTER WE BUILT LEADS IN ALMOST EVERY GAME????? ... seems like an odd time to quit to me ... players usually don't quit WHEN THERE AHEAD .. THEY QUIT WHEN THERE BEHIND ...
now .. if u want to talk about adjustments ... I can't say a word about that without being a hypocrite cause the FACT IS we didn't do well there ... but bro .. I see NO FACTS TO SUPPORT our players quitting .. THE SEQUENCE OF THE GAMES JUST DOESN'T FIT THAT SCENARIO .... it makes NO SENSE BRO ...
IMO guys were playing just as hard in game 5 as they did in game 16 ... obviously theres a natural downward projection of someones play the further out of it U fall ... your just not going to get as up for a game when your 3 - 8 as u are if your even 5 - 6 ... its just HUMAN NATURE ... I don't buy into the team quit on him .... that's just BS IMO ...
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Look at the Jags bro, that team was 0-8 and left for dead, but they got better and finished 4-4......they never quit on their HC (to his credit). We are more talented than the Jags, but consistently found new and exciting ways to lose games.
your busy with your boys bro so u don't have time to do your homework ... so i'll help u out ...
1st off how do we have way more talent than the Jags??? ... we may have at the start of the season but not at the end ...
We had T-Rich ... they had MJD ... we traded T-Rich (great trade BTW) .. they kept MJD ... when MJD went down they had the rookie Todman to put in ... who did we have??? ..... we had NOTHING until Baker showed up .... and he was an improvement but I don't see him being a feature back ANYWHERE anytime soon ...
so we lost our only running back for the last 14 games of the year .. they lost there RB for 1 game and had an adequate replacement for him ....
then theres the QB situations ... ours went from bad to way better to horrible ... way better had 2.5 games ... that's it ... there QB situation actually IMPROVED because of the injury to Gabbert .. u wanna say that Chud messed up starting weeds .. go ahead .. I disagree cause we needed to see what we had in weeds and u can't do that with him on the bench ... but u know what .. i'll give u that ... lets put a check mark in the mistake box on that one for chud ... well they did the same thing in J-Ville ... they started gabbert even though hes as bad as Weeds cause they wanted to see what they had ... then Gabbert gets hurt and there forced to go to henne ... henne's not all pro by any stretch .. hes actually pretty bad ... but I'd take him over Weeds or Campbell in a heartbeat ..
so there injury at QB ACTUALY HELPED THEM ... where as our first injury helped us but the 2nd one DESTROYED US!!!
there QB play got better with the injury ... ours went to hell after the 2nd injury ..
they also went out and picked up Justin babin this year ... where as we picked up willis mcgahee ... *LOL* ...
at the beginning of the year .. I would agree we had way more talent ... at the end of they year ... naaaa ... we have had more but not by a lot ... and we certainly didn't have more at the QB position witch is HUGE ... and if u have a hole at QB a good running game is your best friend ... and we had NO RB either ...
this org. comparing Chud to other org's with 1st year coaches is TOTAL BS ... every org. is different and ALL SURONDING CIRCUMSTANCES were very different ..,, this is just our A-holes grasping at straws to keep folks from following the bouncing ball ...
and u say the jags didn't quit on there coach .... well u must not have watcdhed yesterdays game against the colts .. cause if u did u would be signing a different tune bro ... I have no clue weather they quit or not .. but they sure got there asses handed to them by a team that IMO is not very good most weeks ..
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the crap Ryan takes for the Jets, that guys get's the most out of that crap roster he has...kudos to him.
I agree on this one ... I am not a ryan fan at all ... but I said half way through the year he should coach of the year for the job hes doing there ... when they were saying he might be fired I was *LMAO* ... caue the Jets have another dysfunctional FO so I thought ... ya .. they might do it .. *L* ..
he did a great job THIS YEAR ... not sure how that equates to what Chud did ... entirely different situations ... veteran laden roster vs young roster ... all new systems and coaches in c-town ... not sure if the jets had any turnover on O but I know they didn't on D cause Ryan runs that show .. and the D is what led this team ...
so I guess u got me there ... *shrugs* ...
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We also held the lead in countless games in the 1st half only to get our butt handed to us in the 2nd half.........depth?? maybe, but it happened in the 1st few games to before the injuries mounted.
it had sumptin to do with depth .. no doubt ... the real culprit to me there is that we either sucked at adjustments or when they made there adjustments we didn't have the talent to combat them ... I have no clue on that one ..
like I said earlier ... if u want to crush them for adjustments ... they either just got out coached or they didn't have the talent to adjust when the other tames made there adjustments ...
but the fact we came out of the gate swinging tells me that NO ONE GAVE UP ... and U can't dispute we got up in most games and that's a weird trait for a team that's given up ...
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My problem with the firing is he was never a chance to correct his deficiencies and grow as a HC.........and most importantly if he is this bad that he needs fired after 1 year then why did the stooges hire him to begin with???.........where's the accountability for that crap.
DING DING DING .... this wreaks of Chud not agreeing with Lombardi and one had to go and of course weasel #2 (Banner) got rid of Chud ...
Thanks for your thoughts on O'Brien ... I know nuttin about the guy ... just wanted to know what u liked about him ... not gonna comment on here cause I don't want to get involved with the peanut gallery over O'Brien ...
gordon being lazy? 1564 says otherwise.
man... i wonder what gordon can do with consistent QB play if y'all think 1564, most in the nfl, and a pro bowl is lazy.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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I wish I knew the value of moving up from 4th to either 1st or 2nd. I hope that teams realize that Washington made a mistake by giving up that much two years ago and that the price won't be that steep again.
I know nuttin about Bridgewater .... but your word is good enough for me ...
PROBLEM IS ...
Wash traded with a team that didn't need a QB ... Houston KNOWS THEY NEED A QB ....
add that to the fact U have said after Bridge theres a HUGE DROP OFF ....
so why would Houston trade with us at all unless we gave them a kings ranson .... and even then it is real hard to get a franchise qb so why would they trade the pick if Bridge is all that and they need one???? ...
IMO our only shot at Bridge is if they hire a defensive minded coach that doesn't value QB's as much as he does D and they decide to stockpile picks ... that's the only scenario I see .... either that or they hire an offensive minded guy who thinks theres a FA or someone on an NFL roster he can trade for and then trading with us becomes a no brainer if we make the right package ..
as the NFL stand today ... we have as much a shot at getting Bridge as Chud does of coaching here next year ... OK ... maybe slightly better than that ... 
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This is just to remind people about Mike Lombardi's track record.. this does NOT make me feel giddy.. When this FO started I was adamantly against ML. Banner made me fee a little uneasy.. then as the season went on, I developed into a wait and see.. giving way to a cautious optimism. This has changed. I am now worried abot Banner.. and Haslam is just another crook to me. I hope the Stooges prove me wrong. 
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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I don't think that we would cut any DL is we went back to the 4-3. (which would be idiotic)
If anything we would add numerous DL.
One other thing I have been thinking about. There was something said about developing players, and how Chud did not d a good job of this.
I look at this team and have to wonder what they were looking at.
Gordon went from a kid with potential to leading the NFL in receiving yards ...... after missing the 1st 2 games.
Cameron became a Pro Bowl TE. Again, a kid with potential last year became a Pro Bowl player this year.
Brian Hoyer played the best football he has ever played in his NFL career.
Joe Haden improved to shut down several top receivers this year, and also made the Pro Bowl.
Gipson has become an average NFL FS, with solid hands and an eye for the football.
Teams don't generally have more than a few players make huge leaps forward in any given year.Players improve, but they usually don't jump from decent to leading the NFL. Young players develop, but we had a few guys make just enormous strides.
Man, we had a WR and a TE have great years with Jason Campbell, Brandon Weeden, and Brian Hoyer throwing the ball. Just think on that for a while.
All we have talked about lately is the fact that in today's NFL you better have a QB, because if you don't, the odds are really stacked against you. If you don't have a QB, then you better have a great run game and a tremendous defense. We traded our starting RB early on. (which I agreed with, but it is a piece of the larger puzzle) No QB and no RB means that a team probably isn't going to win much.
Also, we traded away our 3rd and 4th round picks for picks next year. I agree with that long term, but man, you really limit your new head coach with moves like that.
I have to laugh when Banner said that he felt that they gave the coaches enough talent to win with. The Browns, with $40 million in cap space, and multiple draft picks next year ...... so I feel that, based on what Banner said ....... that this had better be a 10 win team next year. (minimum)
I was also stunned when Haslam said something along the lines of not really knowing about the next head coach until after 6 months.Really? 6 whole months? Wow, that must reassure any candidate who may have looked that the situation here and thought that Chud got a raw deal.
Oh well ...... back to the starting line again. Yea.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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HEY VERS .... THIS IS HOW U HANDLE SWISH ...... see my response below .... did u learn anything???? 
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Well Y-town .... the good news is we should be really comfie in the starting blocks since we pretty much live in them ... *L* ....
I said the same thing about 6 months also ... at first he said 1 year and I cringed at that one .... and thought ... WOW ... then he got mad (U could see him changing with every question he didn't like .... *L*) ... and he said 6 months and I had to replay it to make sure I heard it right ...
at the end of the day ... the last 4 or 5 mins were bigger BS than the first 40 mins or so ... cause when he got mad he got flustered and his responses became dumber and dumber ....
the worse part of the PC for me was when he said that he wasn't going to be in trouble for his crooked ass business practices ... that was DEPRESSING ...
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HEY VERS .... THIS IS HOW U HANDLE SWISH ...... see my response below ....
did u learn anything????
that that was the most immature response to a perfectly reasonable post? yep. sure did.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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I know nuttin about Bridgewater .... but your word is good enough for me ...
PROBLEM IS ...
Wash traded with a team that didn't need a QB ... Houston KNOWS THEY NEED A QB ....
add that to the fact U have said after Bridge theres a HUGE DROP OFF ....
so why would Houston trade with us at all unless we gave them a kings ranson .... and even then it is real hard to get a franchise qb so why would they trade the pick if Bridge is all that and they need one???? ...
Yeah, I know. But a man needs hope in order to persevere.
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jc
I find it odd that I went to the official chat site and posted a rant (no curse words) under the title "Fire Lombardi and Banner Too Haslam" and it was deleted within minutes... lol
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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jc
I find it odd that I went to the official chat site and posted a rant (no curse words) under the title "Fire Lombardi and Banner Too Haslam" and it was deleted within minutes... lol
i post there. thats because there is already a thread with them ranting.
they delete peoples post here too if its already being discussed.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Btw----just watched the presser. It galls me that the posters were celebrating the questions and the spot that Banner and Haslam were put in. I found some of those questions embarrassing. The Three Stooges comment was not funny, it was immature and irresponsible. And Super was saying they never admitted to being wrong. What? They did it over and over and over. One more thing I need to get off my chest. I keep reading these articles and hearing Silver talking about our players complaining. Earlier in the year, they were freaking out and complaining about the poor coaching, especially after the Jax game [oh, and sorry Diam.........Jax does not have more talent than us.] As the day progresses, I watch other players, such as Ponder in Minnesota, taking the blame for their coach getting fired. He said things that the players did not play well enough. And people still don't think we need a culture change? We got players blaming the coaches and then later blaming the FO for firing the coach.  Here's some free advice. How about you freaking play better and win some freaking games and quit blaming everyone else for your shortcomings.
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well at the end of the day you are correct.
regardless of the plays called, the players must go out and execute.
they did a poor job doing that most of the year.
the question becomes then vers. was it lack of execution? talent? more or less the other but both?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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I haven't heard many players really complaining about this firing. It's the same quotes over and over.
A few weeks ago, a poster sent me an Insider report that stated the players were blaming the coaches for the losing. They were complaining about all kinds of things that the coaches were doing.
It made me mad to read that at the time and it is making me mad to hear the players complain now.
My advice to the players. Play harder. Win some games. Stop complaining about things you can't control.
This team quit down the stretch. Quit!!! Some were blaming the coaching staff for the losses. Now others are blaming the FO.
Pffftttttttttttt..............the Browns need to change the culture. Not sure how they are going to do it, but we have to get rid of the cancers.
I got the same reports and felt the same way.
Now that it has set in.....I have no problem with this.....It means we aren't the same old Browns.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Thanks King, but being w/me is not a popular place. 
That depends on "where you are".
When someone mentioned that Chud should be fired just last week, you got a little miffed about it to say the least. I believe it was "Yeah, just fire them all!"
You thought the idea was in sane. Now?
While you say you don't like the move, you still uphold the people doing it and say people are using it as an excuse for people to bash the FO?
Just like the weather in Ohio, it always changes.
We have no QB, we have no running game and the D didn't really improve pressure on the QB.
Chud was the sacrificial lamb. The fall guy for the failure of everyone.
You've always claimed this coaching staff would be here for the long haul. These guys lied to all of us, you included. Some of us want to hold them accountable for that. Some of us don't trust people who lie to us.
You'll have to forgive us for that. Or not. But when people lie to you, that's not some excuse to question and mistrust them. That's a reason.
Excuse those of us who will wait for proof before we trust them now. I'm not really surprised by any of this. I really didn't trust them much from the beginning.
But for someone like yourself who did? This should be a slap in the face to you. Yet you're so intent on being right about this group, you won't own up to it.
You know as well as anyone that Chud had no help in the off season in terms of a QB or running game. Yet the FO holds him accountable for the results in his first season.
It's laughable and fully understandable why someone would tag them as The Three Stooges.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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It means we aren't the same old Browns.
No, we ARE the same old Browns until we start winning consistently. Until then, we're the same old losing franchise that constantly does unspeakably baffling things at strange times in the hopes that this time it'll be the magical fix and have us start winning.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Btw----just watched the presser.
It galls me that the posters were celebrating the questions and the spot that Banner and Haslam were put in. I found some of those questions embarrassing. The Three Stooges comment was not funny, it was immature and irresponsible.
And Super was saying they never admitted to being wrong. What? They did it over and over and over.
One more thing I need to get off my chest. I keep reading these articles and hearing Silver talking about our players complaining. Earlier in the year, they were freaking out and complaining about the poor coaching, especially after the Jax game [oh, and sorry Diam.........Jax does not have more talent than us.]
As the day progresses, I watch other players, such as Ponder in Minnesota, taking the blame for their coach getting fired. He said things that the players did not play well enough.
And people still don't think we need a culture change? We got players blaming the coaches and then later blaming the FO for firing the coach.
Here's some free advice. How about you freaking play better and win some freaking games and quit blaming everyone else for your shortcomings.
I agree Vers.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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When someone mentioned that Chud should be fired just last week, you got a little miffed about it to say the least. I believe it was "Yeah, just fire them all!"
You thought the idea was in sane. Now?
I have stated that I am upset w/the move. I have always believed in continuity. I'm just not going to get as dramatic about it as some of you.
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While you say you don't like the move, you still uphold the people doing it and say people are using it as an excuse for people to bash the FO?
That's right. So what?
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You've always claimed this coaching staff would be here for the long haul. These guys lied to all of us, you included. Some of us want to hold them accountable for that. Some of us don't trust people who lie to us.
Why didn't you same guys ever hold The Big Show accountable for his numerous lies? Why didn't you bash him for not even being in Cleveland for large portions of the year?
I frankly don't care if you guys do trust them. I can't control what you think. I am not going to sit here and play this melodramatic games that some of you are playing, though.
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But for someone like yourself who did? This should be a slap in the face to you. Yet you're so intent on being right about this group, you won't own up to it.
LMAO.............it isn't over. It's been a year. And you saying that I am so intent on being right is priceless. Absolutely priceless.
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I got a question for U ... u say this team quit ... well one of the biggest gripes about this teams performances is that they gave up leads in the 4th quarter ... well if the players quit on him ... WHY DID WE COME OUT OF THE GATE STRONG EVERY WEEK??? ... seriously .... did we get lucky every week to start games??? ... or did the players quit AFTER WE BUILT LEADS IN ALMOST EVERY GAME????? ... seems like an odd time to quit to me ... players usually don't quit WHEN THERE AHEAD .. THEY QUIT WHEN THERE BEHIND ...
I knew you were going to nail me on that one...lol...we've done this for to many years bro.....I know you like my wife...lol.
I wasn't referring to Gordon as I'm with you and think he's another prima-dona that could leave tomorrow and I wouldn't give a flying crap. I was referring more about guys like Bess (who just freaking quit completely), Ward, and at times Haden. These guys checked out weeks ago. The Jags??? Bro they had MJD, but he absolutely SUCKS at this point in his career and was every bit as bad as TRich. The Todman kid..........you really think he is a starter or significant contributor next year??? I don't. Oh and CH vs. Cambell is a push bro......both guys are journeyman who have done nothing to make one say they are the answer to squat. I think both of our lines are better than the Jags as far as talent, and as bad as I hate our secondary......loads better than the crap fest the Jags have.
You are right that the team didn't tank on Terry Robiskie type proportions...lol...but I believe whole heartedly that some of our more high profile guys checked out big time. You mentioned the talent between us and the Jags being equal by season end.........you think that's the case if Bess doesn't quit??....if Ward is still playing like a mad man??.....if Haden isn't taking plays off mentally??? I think those two go hand in hand. Some of these guys quit imo.........but I'll give you this one the team as a whole didn't quit.
On everything else we pretty much agree...........PM about BOB would love to know what you think. I love the guy's character and what he did for that crap hole there he inherited.............wish the Browns would give him a look, but I'm not hopeful
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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It really doesn't matter to me Vers. Actually it's funny as hell. Watching you talk out both sides of your mouth is priceless.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Always gotta make it personal, don't you Pit?
Say what you will. I don't have the energy to deal w/you right now.
I am glad you are happy at the turn of events, though. Good for you.
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I'm not happy. I was actually trying very hard to be positive about the new regime. As a Browns fan, I wanted to believe in what they told me. But as evidenced with this firing, they lied to the fan base.
Making excuses for that is fine if you wish. But attacking posters and those who don't buy into it is outlandish at best. That's the only thing I find amusing about the entire situation.
If you don't share the views of those who are upset that's fine. But pretending they have no cause to be upset or are looking for excuses is ludicrous.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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.I know you like my wife...lol.
I guess I am a old guy, but I couldn't admit that .
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Lol.....yeah I guess I should have worded that in a less easily misconstrued way.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Quote:
I'm not happy. I was actually trying very hard to be positive about the new regime. As a Browns fan, I wanted to believe in what they told me. But as evidenced with this firing, they lied to the fan base.
Making excuses for that is fine if you wish. But attacking posters and those who don't buy into it is outlandish at best. That's the only thing I find amusing about the entire situation.
If you don't share the views of those who are upset that's fine. But pretending they have no cause to be upset or are looking for excuses is ludicrous.
I think both Haslam and Banner were very clear they understood how fans would be upset, and they were as well.
They said they made a mistake. If you don't think they did, that's one thing......but correcting a mistake is the only action reasonable people do....right?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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they should make a reality show called "Real fans of cleveland"
any less than 10 seasons worth, with top ratings, is impossible.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Question for the forum, not just Peen. Other than the Trent trade, what good decision has the front office made so far?
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Question for the forum, not just Peen. Other than the Trent trade, what good decision has the front office made so far?
Was the Trent Richardson trade so brillant? Now that we held the coach accountable while giving him nothing to work with it looks more like a bad move. Did we have an adequate replacement or a plan in place?No
There have been 0 improvements made by this front office.
Actually they have made worse decisions than the previous 2 regimes!!!!
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Question for the forum, not just Peen. Other than the Trent trade, what good decision has the front office made so far?
the hiring of the coaching staff.
people think they are putting me on blast for criticizing some of the coaching decisions made during the season, but they don't see that i actually supported Chud, Norv, and Ray the entire time.
to me, that was a dream team of coaches. my overall issue is with them was they were trying to hard to compensate for what was ultimately a lack of talent, so they called plays that normally should even be considered in certain situations.
not trading gordon. you see these posters saying they wouldn't lose sleep over gordon?
1564 yards. you think we win 4 games without Gordon? he was literally the only offense we had. so if 1564 is considered "quitting" then good god i wanna see that guy actually try. he put up megatron numbers, but nah, can't be happy with that.
Desmond bryant and kruger. kruger's numbers leaves me wanting, but overall, those guys were solid. kruger is so smart too. i think it was the NE game or the Jets game, they kept trying to do those WR bubble screens, and he batted the ball down back to back.
desmond bryant? enough said, that man was a straight up monster, and when he went down, so did our overall defense.
quentin groves i believe was a very underrated signing. he was up there in sacks with the rest of the team until he had the season ending injury.
i think overall, they handled the QB situation the best they could. once weeden went down, they really never wanted to play him, except when they absolutely had to. sucked for everybody.
so they have a ton of positives, its just they blew the major one with fans: trust.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Quote:
Quote:
Question for the forum, not just Peen. Other than the Trent trade, what good decision has the front office made so far?
Was the Trent Richardson trade so brillant? Now that we held the coach accountable while giving him nothing to work with it looks more like a bad move. Did we have an adequate replacement or a plan in place?No
There have been 0 improvements made by this front office.
Actually they have made worse decisions than the previous 2 regimes!!!!
IDK, getting a first rounder for a RB that is averaging 3 ypg seems like a decent deal.
Finding Hoyer was a good move imo.
Still they pulled some bad ones out too... Bess comes to mind.
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Question for the forum, not just Peen. Other than the Trent trade, what good decision has the front office made so far?
Was the Trent Richardson trade so brillant? Now that we held the coach accountable while giving him nothing to work with it looks more like a bad move. Did we have an adequate replacement or a plan in place?No
There have been 0 improvements made by this front office.
Actually they have made worse decisions than the previous 2 regimes!!!!
IDK, getting a first rounder for a RB that is averaging 3 ypg seems like a decent deal.
Finding Hoyer was a good move imo.
Still they pulled some bad ones out too... Bess comes to mind.
Lets not forget the genius now picking the draft picks. Lombardi!!!! They will get nothing for him.
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I think both Haslam and Banner were very clear they understood how fans would be upset, and they were as well.
They said they made a mistake. If you don't think they did, that's one thing......but correcting a mistake is the only action reasonable people do....right?
I simply don't buy into how they could come to such a conclusion based on several factors. For one, they said this year would be an evaluation year.
As it turns out, the evaluation shows conclusively that we have no running game and no QB. I don't see how you can evaluate a HC that simply doesn't have an O that has the talent in the running game and passing game to score points.
They knew Chud was an OC and as such, I simply don't see how you can fire him or evaluate him so quickly considering the FO has not given him the weapons to succeed with.
If what they said was actually their belief, I think they were short sighted and that Chud took the blame in part, on things the FO itself didn't do. But that is how it's always worked in the NFL.
I mean, the FO isn't going to fire itself. I'm just not a big proponent of passing the buck to the next man down on the totem pole. And I believe this past years failure was as much on the FO not providing the weapons for Chud to succeed as anything else.
Which is why I thought this was premature. Had they given him time once they provided him with such weapons, I would feel differently. With a one year tenure with no O weapons, I don't believe anybody they hired would have stood a chance.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Alright, I'll play....
1.Trading TRich for a 1st was genius.....loved it
2. Signing Bryant
3. Signing Kruger who has been solid.
4. Bringing in Hoyer
5. Positioning in a pretty deep draft to have 10 picks.
They have done some things I don't agree with for sure, but all of these seem pretty solid to me.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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I agree with everything you posted Swish.
Except one tiny thing you keep getting wrong, Gordon's stat was 1646 yards.
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Quote:
Question for the forum, not just Peen. Other than the Trent trade, what good decision has the front office made so far?
They brought in Hoyer, Rainey, and Baker. There is three off the top of my head.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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