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Forgot about Baker....and Dion Lewis who I have always felt had a chance to be huge even before the Eagles drafted him. I hope he is healthy next year could be huge for us.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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I agree with everything you posted Swish.
Except one tiny thing you keep getting wrong, Gordon's stat was 1646 yards.
lol, damn! so this guy was close to a 1700 yard season...missing 2 games.
wow, cob, wow.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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j/c After invoking the 24hr rule and thinking about this, I can't come up with an answer. WTF did Chud do to get fired? Seriously, did anyone see anything that resembled incompetence warranting termination of a 1st year coach? I'm not buying the reasons given by our triumvirate of evil. Granted, that decision and sitting for the press conference took balls, but what on earth was the real reason behind this?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Well well welllll...good to see U and BW ..I can't get this site at work due to the freaking firewall that sees this site as a game site?
Kinda like the Browns.
This thing spiraled out of control,,IMO BECAUSE of little talent where it needed to be(QB/RB/WR/OLINE) , the coaches did not adjust , and Horton alluded to it somewhat.
Too many mishandles of the roster by some of the geniuses in the FO.
BTW your last comment was on..there was a clash between Chud and the FO..they wanted certain player(s) cut/released(no accountability is what I read)and Chud didn't cut them.
I read two were Weeden and Little.
Oh and I'm sure you are aware that they would not have done this had they not had a HC in mind..I've read some rumblings about it, but something should surface soon.
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Whatever has happened, and I'm not sure we'll ever know, it's worth 20 to 30 million for them to make this move. They will have a lot of coaches to pay off before all is said and done.
That's a lot of cash for nothing, even to rich people.
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I was backing you up. Swish wrote that.
so you and daman gonna respond?
since when does criticism and wanting somebody fired go hand and hand?
don't we do the same with players? nobody says they shouldn't start, just need to improve.
but it doesn't work that with with coaches?
YO, Look up a few posts and you'll see I DID respond to you..
What, is it that you think all I have to do all day is to respond to you? You just aren't that important in the big picture. Hell, not even in the little picture
maybe because you're saying crap that isn't true. my bad, i forgot, we make up stuff around here on this board.
You mean like you just did?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The kids are fine...just turned 8. My boy was the MVP of the city football league here....he can sling it for an 8 year old...lol. I haven't heard the thing about Bynum...pm me.
The Browns are the Browns still unfortunately. I just watched the press conference and a few things stood out to me....
1. Haslem and Banner have balls to go through that PC because they knew they were going to get killed...good sign because it don't think Lerner ever had any.
2. I don't agree with the decision at all, but I do respect the fact that they had the stones to fire a guy they thought was a mistake hire.....oh and contrary to what was reported they did admit to it several times they screwed up.
3. Those are 2 arrogant people..lol. They are honestly oblivious how anyone could question their ability to bring in a top HC to this dumpster fire. I admire the confidence, but think they are sadly mistaken. I hope I'm wrong, but imagine we will get stuck with another no name OC/DC.
4. Haslem was visibly pissed when asked about the Fed stuff...lol. He isn't selling this team at all.
5. Finally, I like the fact that "excellence" is the new standard, but I hope Banner and Lombardi are held to the same standard if the next guy is a dud....not holding my breath.
Overall, what choice do we have but to hope they get it right?? I'm with Diam in believing these guys could theoretically hire a good HC, draft some good players with all those picks, and back into a good thing in spite of there previous screw ups.....we shall see. I'm rooting for them to no doubt.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Seems my kids find the Browns to be a laughing stock as they like different teams who I won't name right now..
Anyway the BOYS GOT HAMMERED at the PC..some of it is warranted, because the results are the same ole thing..only two winning seasons in 14 years and only 1 playoff appearance..stew on that for a while.
Now they had to admit they got it wrong, but a lot were questioning when they brought Chud in..he was not the big splash they wanted.
Plus the team did not improve in their mind , but I'm going to say this.
They continued to let players go quickly before they could show in time whether they could contribute or not..it was a revolving door with the roster, the back end especially on offense.
Heard a snipet the if Lombardo had more control they would have been more active in FA.
They knew Saturday they were parting ways with Chud.
Now the presser was as battle ridden as I've seen it even though some of it seemed over the top but at least they know their actions can be and will be questioned and no one is taking their word of mouth..
Lombardi is the one letting stuff be leaked out(I'm sure everyone knows that)..but dude is on notice.
Heard Hasslehoff might add another piece to the FO , and if so it's because he was not able to be there full time..so he wants his eyes to be in there watching what the rest of the clan is doing.
Something else..the in-fighting begin after the Jag loss and that's their name continues to be mentioned in their mouth.
I am very concerned about how they proceed because as U know ,when U bring a new coach in , he wants his guys and his schemes to be used.
And then theres the draft..until they get me in there running that, we're doomed I tell U..dooooomed.. 
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I think the underlying reason is that if you would subject Banner, Lombardi and Haslam to the same critique as they offered for the firing of Chud, Banner and Lombardi would have been fired as well.
You can't fire the owner of course, but blaming the poor performance of this team on the coaching staff makes no sense at all. It does not pass the sniff test with the media, the players or the fans.
So yes, they got hammered, and they have to sit in the pile of crap that they have made for themselves.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
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Yep both of my boys think I'm nuts to be a Browns fan...lol.
Interesting tidbit about Jimmy bringing in eyes....that gives me hope he means what he says about accountability.....these guys better show progress this year or he will gut it IMO....and I don't want that no matter what my reservations are about Banner/Lombardi. Similar to my hesitations about Chud, I want these guys to be given a real opportunity to succeed.....that's my beef with Chud getting canned....he never got a shot to get better. I think Jimmy really wants a winner....I have no doubt about that. I do doubt whether he has any clue how to get there.........time will tell.
I can see the Jags loss being the one that gave them some pause....it did me as well. That team got better as the season went on and we did not.....no excuse for that even with the injuries. So Lombardi wanted to be more active in FA but Banner held him back????.... Hmmm would have figured to be the other way around
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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It all depends who they get..and I believe they will leak names to keep the one guy they want a secret..in fact they have 3 interviews coming up but the guy in Denver may not even after the Broncs are done .
So if they get another clone of the type that has been in and out of Berea, yeah the only gutting will be Banner/Lombardo.
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So you think the three coordinators leaked so far are cover??? I hope you are right on that one.
Good to talk to you again bro. I miss talking to guys like you, Diam, and Vers....could always tell me something I didn't know or help me look at something with a different set of eyes. I will try to be around more posting, but man between work, my kids, and my wife it's hard to post as much as we did 15 years ago..lol.....back then I was in my early 20s and now I'm pushing 40 with a mortgage and a SUV note.....lol.....but I will try to post more often.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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At this point, im still livid over the chud firing....I really think chud could have succeeded here...he had a much better odds of that then the guys we have had previously...
Last edited by Knight_Of_Brown; 12/31/13 12:06 AM.
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Question for the forum, not just Peen. Other than the Trent trade, what good decision has the front office made so far?
They brought in Hoyer, Rainey, and Baker. There is three off the top of my head.
Rainey and Baker are good....?
Oh dear.... I really underestimated how bad we are. Also how was Kruger good? He was signed to get sacks and he didn't. Now with Desmond Bryant we have to worry about his heart. Also, people need to cool it with the Hoyer love. Dude was awful against Minnesota.
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I have been biting my tongue till I cooled down a bit, but the current Browns players, former Browns players, and two agents I have talked to all think our front office is a joke. This is just pitiful for us loyal Browns fans 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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JC...
Just watched the presser. Here are my takeaways:
--The best part of the presser was Haslam's facial expressions. Seriously. If you mute the presser and just watch that you will be entertained for quite some time. It is must see TV. I am still laughing thinking of the different ones....the surprised face....the incredulous face....the red face...the smirk...the "you idiots" face....there are many more classics. I can just watch that over and over again.
--Haslam is very polished in a politician kind of way. I fear he's slick but absolutely dumb when it comes to football. Hell he just might be absolutely dumb in general.
--These guys still think they are the smartest guys in the room and everyone else is an idiot. Banner takes credit for Philly's success like he was the sole reason for it. He's almost as smooth as Haslam. He doesn't have as many faces though. Did I mention Haslam's many faces?
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Forgot about Baker....and Dion Lewis who I have always felt had a chance to be huge even before the Eagles drafted him. I hope he is healthy next year could be huge for us.
Baker was brought in because Norv Turner knew him in San Diego and wanted him brought in here.
I don't know how much the front office had to do with him, other than to contact him and do the paperwork.
Dion Lewis looked good in preseason, but so did Weeden in a couple of games. We have no way of knowing how he would have looked once the real season started. Maybe he would have been a spark for the offense, and maybe he still will be. Maybe he'll flop. We can opine, but right now we don't know for sure.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Also, people need to cool it with the Hoyer love. Dude was awful against Minnesota.
Got to disagree... what was it, our second highest point total of the season, 3rd or 4th most passing yards, same for rushing yards.. we got a win.. when you ask a guy in the first start of his NFL career to throw it 50 times, you are going to get a few picks.. but he made enough plays to win the game.... You could tell he has more football sense than anybody else we have trotted out there in a long time...
We have a really good TE, we have (had) an OC that loves to use the TE... Not surprising that Cameron had 4 of his 7 TDs this year in two games with Hoyer...
I'm not proclaiming him the savior, but the guy made more plays in a couple games than we've seen in a long time and he deserves another look.
yebat' Putin
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Hoyer was OK against the Vikings, but he also got away with a lot of mistakes. The Vikings dropped, IIRC, 3 or 4 passes that pretty much hit them right in the hands. The Vikings defense was flat out awful this year as well. We had another special teams play that led to the special teams TD pass by Lanning.
He was better against the Bengals, even though it was against backups in the secondary. he was more consistent with his throws.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Rishuz,
The reason why Banner has those looks is because back in Philly, he was terrible in the media and the owner Laurie kept him out of the press. Also, Banner was Laurie's money man, Banner was not the head talent, coach, team organizer, just the guy handling the money. SO all this talk coming from him is crap! Google Joe Banner and see what comes up.
He pissed off more players and eventually lost out to Andy Reid. So was not as involved in the player on field evaluation/usage as he was the one who negotiated the contracts.
Haslam thinks he is slick but he probably was not as involved in Pittsburgh as he THOUGHT he was
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I'm not happy. I was actually trying very hard to be positive about the new regime. As a Browns fan, I wanted to believe in what they told me. But as evidenced with this firing, they lied to the fan base.
Making excuses for that is fine if you wish. But attacking posters and those who don't buy into it is outlandish at best. That's the only thing I find amusing about the entire situation.
If you don't share the views of those who are upset that's fine. But pretending they have no cause to be upset or are looking for excuses is ludicrous.
I think both Haslam and Banner were very clear they understood how fans would be upset, and they were as well.
They said they made a mistake. If you don't think they did, that's one thing......but correcting a mistake is the only action reasonable people do....right?
I do not recall either of them verbally admitting a mistake. I do recall Banner saying "the FO had the needle pointed in the right direction." Listening/(watching) to their presser it is damn near verbatim to the PC after the Shurmur fire. Color me unimpressed with their actions but, they do hit on the key sales points in their press conferences.
Time will..…again, tell the story. I'm baffled that a business is able to sell a product that is so putrid year after year after year to folks. The Browns are the the ultimate success story….a quality product is not necessary to make money hand over fist on the vague promise of hope and dreams, and just rather appeal to the fans emotions.
Most of my comments should be j/c.. Peen (not directed at you)
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I'm an old guy too Peen, and it still very much frosts my sack. I can live with another coaching change, I've grown numb to those; but the cancer is at the helm IMO. There are a billion reasons why Haslam is staying but the other two rats need to be run into the sewers.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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j/c
This is my first post since the story broke. Whenever something like this hits, I like to take a step back and a deep breath. I did that again this time. And I am perfectly calm as I write this.
______________________________
It seems like the only thing the Browns are any good at is playing out some foolish soap opera every off season. New names at the top, same old story. The stench of the Holmgren era is barely out of my nostrils, and I'm starting to detect a 'stink' about these guys, too.
I wasn't thrilled when this brain trust was assembled in the first place. I made a vow to myself to be open-minded about them. Then, a coaching staff was assembled that made me think something positive might come. TRich trade: after my initial shock wore off, I could even get with that. I was starting to come around. Now, I simply don't know what to think. It's makin'' my head hurt.
You guys all know me by now. You know I hate this administrative crap above all other things. The constant turnover in personnel. Seeing vets 'age out' without ever getting a sniff at The Tournament. Breaking stories of behind closed-doors dysfunction. Mid-season trade rumors. Power plays, desperation drafts, cap hell issues, it just never, ever freakkin' ends. Dysfunction truly is the most consistent trait this organization has ever shown.
I don't have any faith at all that these current guys are going to be any better than what we've always seen. If I were subject to "X-Files" type paranoia, I might consider that 76 Groza sits atop some ancient burial site, and the reallly bad JuJu won't ever leave.
My wife is a big fan of Days Of Our Lives. That's what these guys have become for me. I've really lost a lot of my enthusiasm for this team over the years, and sometimes they make me feel like those sad addicts who no longer get any pleasure from their drug of choice... they just do it now to feel a sense of dull normality.
For some reason the Browns' offseason can never just be about calmly assessing and retooling, all oars pulling together. You know- professionalism? Nope. It's always Opie/Collins, Opie/Romeo, Butch's 3/4 of a season, Kokinis... always something that's not actually on the field on Sundays, yet always something almost tailor-made to keep the product crappy.
I'll be as honest as I can right now: I come here mainly because it's been a pretty welcoming place for me. I come to interact with you guys, and I feel as if I've found a community I can be a part of. That's pretty much the best thing I've gotten from the Browns since '99... and I'm convinced it's good because it runs independently of 76 Groza- or they'd mess us up, too. I now get more enjoyment from talking with real people about this fake Soap Opera of a football team than I do from the actual product that brought us all together. And that's a shame.
An entire-half century of fan loyalty is in danger of evaporating because of something as pathetic as ennui... and it's not my fault. I did my freakkin' job.
And you know what? It isn't even these particular guys who have done this to me... it's been all of them. From Clark/Policy right on up to 'Hazmat 2013.'
This fandom of mine for the Browns feels very different than the fandom I felt as a kid and young man. This one feels more like an abusive, one-sided relationship with a perennially self-destructive screw up of a mate. No joy. Just drama. And angst. And waiting. And promises of "I'll be better-" I hated seeing those kind of women portrayed in those '40's movies, and now I'm married to a team that acts just like them.
I'm about a half-step away from cuttin' this bitch loose. 2014 is her last f'in chance with me. I'm too old to keep getting played for a fool.
.02
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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 Very good points Clem, I always love reading your contributions. Sad it has to be on this note, just wanted you to know I feel frustrated and confused too 
#gmstrong
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Thanks, gage.
I wish you and I had happier crap to agree on. That would be something I could get used to...
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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.... they make me feel like those sad addicts who no longer get any pleasure from their drug of choice... they just do it now to feel a sense of dull normality.
That right there is one perfect analogy for a Browns fan. 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Great post! Some of the same thoughts I been having. Although not a fan for 50 years I have been a fan for about 36 years. I have found that over the last two years I have been drawn more to college football as i don't really have a favorite team. I find I am getting more enjoyment out not having to watch a bad team play a sub par game just because they are "my team". I am trying to remain interested but another 4-12 year next season may just about do it for me.
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j/c:
I wonder if we could make a poll in the K-9 Consensus Forum that asks how people feel about where this team will be in 2 or 3 years and then archive it? Is that possible?
Almost to man, every one of you think that this FO and ownership is guaranteed to fail. That's fine and you may be right. However, I have noticed how many posters now say they never liked The Big Show or that they never liked trading up for TRich or they thought the Weeden pick was horrible.
I certainly don't remember too many people ever feeling that way. In fact, I typically felt on an island when arguing w/other posters about those guys.
So, it would be nice to have some accountability for all of these hateful and spiteful comments.
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Clem, I couldn't have possibly said it better myself.
We're enabling this thing by our support. We go to the games, buy the licensed products, watch it on TV. We make this horror show possible because we are loyal fans of a team that ceased to exist many years ago. Haslam isn't going to pay much attention until the money starts drying up.
I can see a change in me. My wife offers to buy tickets to a game, I respond "don't bother". I'll turn on a game on TV for maybe a quarter if I'm not doing something else. The only jersey I still own is an old Jim Brown throwback that has not been worn in two years or so. Another season or two of this and I'll be cured.
I know the 2014 Browns are yet another dead on arrival team but somehow I cling to this irrational bit of hope. Yet another rebuild. Yet another "new look". A couple new QB's to toss into the chipper. Hey, when is draft day again?
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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j/c
My take on the press conference:
Banner: We didn't see improvement from the beginning of the season to the end, even though we brought in good talent, so we fired the coach.
And, Banner again: You can't judge us (the 3 stooges) on the talent we brought in because a lot of the players were injured, so we need to wait to judge us (the 3 stooges) until those players can play. It will take a year or 2.
Exactly my take away as well.
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Clem, I couldn't have possibly said it better myself.
We're enabling this thing by our support. We go to the games, buy the licensed products, watch it on TV. We make this horror show possible because we are loyal fans of a team that ceased to exist many years ago. Haslam isn't going to pay much attention until the money starts drying up.
I can see a change in me. My wife offers to buy tickets to a game, I respond "don't bother". I'll turn on a game on TV for maybe a quarter if I'm not doing something else. The only jersey I still own is an old Jim Brown throwback that has not been worn in two years or so. Another season or two of this and I'll be cured.
I know the 2014 Browns are yet another dead on arrival team but somehow I cling to this irrational bit of hope. Yet another rebuild. Yet another "new look". A couple new QB's to toss into the chipper. Hey, when is draft day again?
I hope the stadium is empty next season.
I have to wonder how many college kids are hoping they don't get drafted by the browns this year.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,946 Likes: 70 |
Quote:
I hope the stadium is empty next season.
It would certainly send a message...but the wrong one! The franchise moved once; it can be moved again.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,194 Likes: 136
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,194 Likes: 136 |
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I think the underlying reason is that if you would subject Banner, Lombardi and Haslam to the same critique as they offered for the firing of Chud, Banner and Lombardi would have been fired as well.
You can't fire the owner of course, but blaming the poor performance of this team on the coaching staff makes no sense at all. It does not pass the sniff test with the media, the players or the fans.
So yes, they got hammered, and they have to sit in the pile of crap that they have made for themselves.
And he only thing that can pull them out of the crapper is a winning season. Because they said it, Winning is all that matters. They said it by firing Chud.
So, when they hire a new HC and we don't win, then yeah, Banner and Lombardi should be fired. They set the ground rules. They set the Criteria by which everyone connected to the performance of the team should be judged.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
This past Sunday was the first time in years that I did not watch a single second of the game. I was DVR'ing it, checked the score, saw we were losing, and didn't even bother.
And I don't mind one bit.
My fear for this team isn't that it will be moved again. It's that people are getting to the point that we won't care if it gets moved again.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 68,346 Likes: 1370
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 68,346 Likes: 1370 |
Banner said he has already begun making calls to find a prospective NFL ownership group that would be interested in buying a franchise or setting up a franchise in another city. When asked if that could include the possible franchise in Los Angeles, Banner said he would be “open to L.A. I don’t want to single them out, but that’s something I think I can do – set up a franchise, help build a stadium, hire a coach, hire good people to build a a winning organization.” http://www.975thefanatic.com/teams/eagles/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10391060
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,946 Likes: 70
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,946 Likes: 70 |
Quote:
... Banner and Lombardi should be fired...
Banner looked so uneasy during the presser and, at times, had so much difficulty responding, that I was concerned for his health. I thought he was either going to breakdown or have a heart attack. I really could barely watch, I was so uncomfortable. It looked like the stress level is really getting to him...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,946 Likes: 70
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,946 Likes: 70 |
Quote:
Banner said he has already begun making calls to find a prospective NFL ownership group that would be interested in buying a franchise or setting up a franchise in another city.
When asked if that could include the possible franchise in Los Angeles, Banner said he would be “open to L.A. I don’t want to single them out, but that’s something I think I can do – set up a franchise, help build a stadium, hire a coach, hire good people to build a a winning organization.”
http://www.975thefanatic.com/teams/eagles/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10391060
Where are you going with that, Pitt? That article is 1-1/2 years old...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,775 Likes: 404
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,775 Likes: 404 |
Quote:
Quote:
... Banner and Lombardi should be fired...
Banner looked so uneasy during the presser and, at times, had so much difficulty responding, that I was concerned for his health. I thought he was either going to breakdown or have a heart attack. I really could barely watch, I was so uncomfortable. It looked like the stress level is really getting to him...
That's what happens when you think you are smarter than everyone else and come crashing back down to earth.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,946 Likes: 70
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,946 Likes: 70 |
Quote:
...and come crashing back down to earth.
You would have to believe that he knows that his job is now on the line...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Report: Browns HC Rob
Chudzinski’s Future In Doubt
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