DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Report: Browns HC Rob Chudzinski’s Future In Doubt

Like a lot of stuff posted on here the last two days this is another example of someone misrepresenting facts to make an argument/case against the organization. What bugs me is there is a million things we could nail the FO on right now.....why make stuff up?? It isn't like they are making it hard for us to come up with legitimate reasons......serving them up on a plate for goodness sakes.

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'Hazmat 2013.'

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Haha that is the first time I've seen that, I like it.

Yes, Banner is expendable and is now on the clock. When the bell tolls, he better have produced.

Haslam is none too pleased with the turn of events this year, including Banner's decisions. He's a competitive, impatient man.

It will be interesting to see what happens at the end of next year if we have another double digit loss season.

Was referring to Pitt's post about Banner's desire to move the team....not you but answering where Pitt was going with that post.

There was a previous post about how not supporting the team financially could lead to the team moving as they did before.

While I'm certainly not trying to say that's the plan or intent of this FO, I don't see it as out of the realm of possibility.

I guess I'm just pretty much agreeing with the poster that indicated that if the team isn't supported, it is possible that it could be moved again.

That's the catch 22 that is the NFL. No matter how bad your team is, no matter how poorly they perform...... Pay up to keep them or else you might loose them. Not such a comforting thought.

In reality, as much as people say we as fans have a voice with the almighty dollar, we really don't.

Face it. Chud failed. He failed at tanking the season. He won too many games and had to go.

The PD Editorial View:

Haslam's diminished hiring and firing skills: Editorial cartoon | cleveland.com
http://www.cleveland.com/darcy/index.ssf...t_river_default


Larry, Curly and Moe will be holding a press conference at 12:30 to express how much it galls them to be compared to the same old Browns' management of Jimmy,Joe and Mike.

I've heard of Coaches losing the locker room. Jimmy Haslam may be the first owner to lose the locker room by firing his coach after less than a year on the job. Haslam's hissy fit firing left the team and the town shocked and annoyed.

According to Haslam and team CEO, Joe Banner, Chudzinski was fired because they believe the team did not look better as the season progressed. Then they should have fired the marketing director for giving them brown pants to wear instead of the orange 80's era pants.

First the New England refs moved the goal posts on Chud, taking a Browns win away and giving it to the Patriots. Then Haslam and Banner moved the goal posts on Chud, taking away his job and likely giving it to Patriots O.C. Josh McDaniels.

If the Banner Browns standard is that the coach must show improvement when given no QB or running back to play along side free agent and draft busts and only one offensive threat, who they considered trading, then Jimmy Haslam is going to go thru one and done coaches like he went thru bottled water at the news conference.

When the Banner Browns shrugged off the 2013 draft they sent a clear message to the team and the town that this year was going to be write off. They reinforced that message when they traded Trent Richardson without a viable replacement. They reinforced that message when they didn't sign a real fullback or a backup QB early, when injuries were piling up. They stacked the deck against Chud, then scapegoated him when the shoddy hand he was dealt payed off like Pilot Flying J scam rebates.

To use Jimmy's two favorite words... candidly, it's galling to hear Haslam say the new Coach will be given everything he needs to succeed, because Chud clearly wasn't. The most important need, besides a healthy QB not named Weeden, being time.

Despite the record and roster full of holes I would argue Chud's team did show improvement. When they had good QB play against the Ravens, Patriots and in other close games, the team looked vastly improved over last year. The stats and game tape show Gordon and Cameron had dramatically better years under Chud's and Turners coaching.

Remember Banner considered trade offers for Josh Gordon. Without him, what would Chuds record have been? Would those close games even be close? And Chud's the problem? Really Jimmy, Candidly? Maybe it's the first guy you hired not the first coach you fired.

Banner pointed to the performance of other first year Coaches. It should be noted that the Browns either passed on hiring those coaches,were rejected by them or didn't interview them at all. All of those Coaches had teams either with overall better talent and/or better QB's.

Banner urged fans to consider his and Jimmy Haslam's past track records. Ok, fair enough. Joe Banner was the money-cap guru for the Eagles during their long successful run that continues without him. Andy Reid was the football guru during the Eagles long successful run, not Banner.

Haslam was briefly a minority owner with the Steelers with no reported involvement with personnel or football decisions. Otherwise, in a different era, he may have fired Chuck Noll for winning one game his first year. That's the extent of Haslam's NFL football track record.

Haslam's management track record is running a truck stop empire, built by his father, that is the subject of an ongoing federal investigation for defrauding customers of millions of dollars.

As of October, 11 Pilot Flying J employees have agreed to cooperate with investigators. 7 have agreed to plead guilty, 4 have been given immunity deals. Prosecutors continue investigate and negotiate plea deals as they work their way up Pilot Flying J's corporate ladder to upper management executives who have retained criminal defense attorneys.

I wonder what those Federal prosecutors thought when they saw Jimmy Haslam at the presser, with a slight smile on his face declare that "We've"(Haslams?, Pilot?) done nothing wrong and imply that the situation is winding down and he expects a successful outcome. So did another Jimmy, named Dimora.

When asked if a year from now, he expects to still be sitting at a podium as the owner of the Browns, Haslam gave a carefully worded answer that the team would be a Haslam family asset for a long time to come. That's not the same as saying that he would still be the controlling owner of the team, firing coaches who don't beat the Jets and Jaguars.

So yes, Joe Banner, Jimmy's track record's being checked by both the fans and the feds. So far, he has shown success in hiring employees who turned out to be crooks who cop plea deals to scamming the same kind of folks who once filled Browns stadium on snowy Sundays.

As a Cleveland native, I've lived thru the highs and lows of the Browns for the past 50 years. Haslam and Banner vowed to return stability and respect to the organization. So far, they've succeeded in doing what I once thought was unthinkable, making me miss Art Modell and Randy Lerner. This city deserves better from the NFL.

This reminds me of when all those bright media types and fans hated on Belichick.

The good news is that the media and the majority of the fan base have been consistently wrong for decades.

A professional paper calling people The Three Stooges. Sometimes, I think Cleveland doesn't deserve a winner. What a bunch of losers.

You may wish to question the name calling, rightfully so, but now it has been plastered across their foreheads.

The content of the article points to why their logic was superficial at best, and more plausibly a contrived talking point used to avoid the real explanation.

So leave. It's real simple. You DO NOT HAVE TO BE A FAN!

God............how long are you guys going to cry about a guy who went 4 and 12?

as long as you continue to support the stooges?

Vers, I'm not upset because we fired a 4-12 coach. I'm upset because the only normalcy in Cleveland has been dysfunction. Losing constantly, changing alignments constantly, rebuilding every 2 years, finding ways to suck defeat from victory, alienating the fanbase in weird and perverse ways is all we have known since this franchise has returned.

I do agree with you 4-12 is not the mark of a winner. Firing a coach after one year however is not status quo in the NFL. The only time Cleveland deviates from the norm of losing is to boggle the mind of the fanbase and draw the laughs of the NFL at large. This year it's Chud's firing, last year it's drafting Weeden at 22, year before that was hiring Pat Shurmer, I can keep going back but you get the picture.

I'm still a fan, always will be. I really hope these guys get it right because simply put we have no other choice. Just understand that the emotion you're seeing right now is because we see this merry go round being reset yet again... hoping this time will be better.

So far the only deviations from the NFL norm this FO has taken have been:

Trading T Rich

Firing Chud.

Based on the massive success of the first move I am willing to give them the benefit of doubt on the second.

Hidden in these reports are two telling arguments that also fit this model:

The FO wanted to cut Little and Weeden. Allegedly Chud resisted the idea.

Who would argue that would not be an interesting idea? It would massively deviate from NFL norms and could have had a dramatic effect on this team this season. I would also have liked to see Bess cut.

Edit: They also attempted (Desperately) to sign Chip Kelly. Which at the time he was considered a very risky transition to the NFL game. He seems to be working out well for Philly.

I loved. I swear to you. Loved the Chud / Turner combination. I have openly stated numerous times I would give Chud 10 years regardless of his efficacy.

At the same time. I do not care about the coach. I care about the player quality. Specifically the quarterback.

I do not think Chud did a bad job. I also do not believe doing a bad job is the only reason you should fire someone. If they just plain didn't like the guy they can fire him if they want. If they prefer some other coach and felt they settled with Chud then they can fire him. All of these are perfectly acceptable reasons to me.

They own and run the team, not the fans, not the media, not what modern convention dictates, and they are completely free and justified in doing what they think is right.

Time will tell if they made the right call. My opinion is that it will not matter who the coach is if we have a quality QB. My only preference is that the coach treat the players as adults and be willing to sever ties with any player who sucks regardless of their place on the depth chart or draft position.

dont sleep on dion lewis,, kid got it

The media can say what it wants, I don't care. I was a Browns fan yesterday, am a Browns fan today, and will be a Browns fan tomorrow. That's the beginning and end of it for me.

Go Browns.

gage, I understand where you are coming from. I really do. I have many of the same feelings. It's frustrating. It's deflating. I just don't like this mob mentality and the woe is me crap.

Furthermore, if I am a guy looking to get a HC job, I am not sure I want to come to a city where the local media refers to the top brass as The Three Stooges and the fan base is as hateful as this one is.

This is the same media that slaughtered Belichick daily in the papers and on the radio and the same fan base that hung dummies that resembled BB in the stands. I think we should give these guys the same amount of time the previous regime got before we go crazy.

Oh........and this isn't to you, but I am not asking anyone to leave. I don't care. My point is that if you really hate the team this much, why stick around and make yourself miserable? It's not like being a kid who has abusive parents and you have to stay. You are free to quit rooting for the team. Why torture yourself?

jc

I post this article because I thought the part I highlighted was funny given recent events.




Cleveland Browns receive permission to interview Patriots' Josh McDaniels, Seahawks' Dan Quinn and Cardinals' Todd Bowles; Quinn reportedly set for Wednesday

Print Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group By Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group
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on December 31, 2013 at 7:06 PM, updated January 01, 2014 at 8:10 AM


CLEVELAND -- The Browns have received permission to interview Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, Seahawks defensive coordinator Dan Quinn and Cardinals defensive coordinator Todd Bowles, for their head coaching vacancy, league sources told cleveland.com.

McDaniels, a Canton, O. native, and Quinn are on playoff byes, and can be interviewed by Sunday, when the wildcard games are over.

Quinn set to meet with Browns officials Wednesday in Seattle, according to ESPN's Adam Schefter.

Bowles, the former Browns defensive backs coach, is not in the playoffs and can be interviewed at any time. The Vikings have also received permission to interview Quinn and Bowles, who satisfies the NFL's Rooney Rule, which stipulates a team must interview at least one minority candidate before making a hire.

One potential candidate is off the list for the Browns: former Penn State coach Bill O'Brien, who interviewed with the Browns last year, agreed to terms Tuesday night to come head coach of the Houston Texans.

As for McDaniels, Patriots coach Bill Belichick declined to comment Tuesday during a press conference on the possibility of his top offensive lieutenant leaving the Patriots to coach his hometown team.

"I'm not going to get into any of that,'' Belichick said. "There are procedures for that in the league."

But Patriots quarterback Tom Brady made it clear he wants McDaniels, the former Broncos head coach, to stay put.

"Josh is the best offensive coach I could ever imagine," Brady told WEEI-FM Tuesday. "He's so prepared; he's so confident in what he does. He figures out a way every week to get us in the best position as players to win. I have so much respect for him and what he does for me, what he does for our team. He's just a great coach."

With McDaniels as his position coach for seven seasons, Brady made five Pro Bowls, including this year's. Brady also won one of his three Super Bowls with McDaniels as his quarterbacks coach. McDaniels also won three Super Bowls in New England, but in other assistant roles.

Under McDaniels' tutelage, Brady earned NFL MVP honors in 2007 and broke the NFL record for touchdown passes in a season (50). He also led the league in both passing yards (4,806) and passer rating (117.2). Brady also set franchise marks in nearly every major passing category, while receiver Wes Welker set the franchise record for receptions in a season (112) and receiver Randy Moss broke the NFL record for touchdown receptions with 23. The Patriots offense also posted the franchise's highest average yards per rush in 22 seasons with 4.1 yards per carry and the team's 17 rushing touchdowns were the second highest total in the previous 20 years.

"He's got a lot of poise, got a lot of discipline,'' said Brady. "I hope he doesn't go anywhere. I mean, I'd love for him to coach me the rest of my life. But that's just the way it is. He's one of my best friends, and I love having him."

If the Browns hire McDaniels, they'll have to explain why they think he can be successful after his 5-17 slide over his final 22 games in Denver.

The Browns fired Chudzinski because he didn't show improvement down the stretch, losing 10 of his last 11 games.

Broncos owner Pat Bowlen said some of the same things about McDaniels when he fired him after a 3-9 start in 2010 as Jimmy Haslam and Joe Banner did about Chudzinski Monday.

At the time, McDaniels, had an 11-17 record in his one-plus seasons. He started off 6-0 in 2009, but finished 8-8 after a late-season skid. His second season was also marred by a videotaping scandal that ultimately led to his firing.

McDaniels was initially unaware that Broncos video coordinator Steve Scarnecchia taped a portion of the San Francisco 49ers' walkthrough Oct. 30, 2010 in London, but he failed to report the incident after learning of it later. McDaniels and the Broncos were fined $50,000, and McDaniels lost his job not long thereafter.

He also clashed with then quarterback Jay Cutler, tight end Tony Scheffler and defensive coordinator Mike Nolan.

"In the end, I was not satisfied with the results and the direction this team was headed,'' Bowlen said in a statement at the time. "The decision to make a change was extremely difficult but one that needed to be made for this organization and our fans.

"Everyone, myself included, is accountable for our disappointing season and is now responsible for restoring the culture of winning that has been established by this franchise," he said in a statement. "Our entire organization is completely focused on returning to the level of prosperity that our fans expect and deserve from the Denver Broncos."

Shortly after McDaniels was fired, Browns general manager Mike Lombardi, who was with NFL Network at the time, wrote for nfl.com that the Broncos didn't provide "enough time for the team to be fully developed, or enough time for McDaniels to grow into the job."

Lombardi has a longstanding relationship with McDaniels from Lombardi's close association with Belichick and the Patriots.

While McDaniels has been characterized as the Browns frontrunner, a source stressed that all of the candidates are viewed equally at this point.

Quinn presides over a Seahawks defense that allowed the fewest yards (273.6) and points this season 14.4. The Seahawks are tied for eighth in the NFL with 44 sacks. Quinn, who began his career primarily as a defensive line coach, has also coached with the 49ers, Dolphins, Jets and at the University of Florida. He's also being pursued by some of the other four teams that fired their coaches Monday.

Bowles was a rising star on the Butch Davis' staff here from 2001-2004, part of a staff that led the Browns to their only playoff appearance of the new era following a 9-7 record in 2002.

Bowles, who was coordinator in Philadelphia in 2012, took over for Ray Horton as coordinator in Arizona under new coach Bruce Arians this year and helped guide the team to a 11-5 mark. Bowles' defense finished sixth in the NFL.


http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/12/cleveland_browns_receive_permi_1.html

Well Vers, it's because they love this team that they are miserable. Honestly, with what we have been through with this team, who can fault anyone for the myriad of feelings and reactions to them. I disliked the last group and this new one has done very little to impress me. I can only hope they can change my mind about them at this point.

Whether they cut Chud too soon and didn't allow him to grow and develop, or they picked the wrong guy, this is still on them. I still don't understand how you can expect more wins from him with him being a first time head coach, the QB carousel, the lack of a running game, etc. If the players quit on him, I suppose that would be a big part of it, but I do think that is a difficult thing to judge, and people throw that around too much. I don't know, maybe they did quit.

Anyway, good riddance to another crap ass year from this team. I wish I could muster up the energy to care more, but that is long past for me.

Just to address your thought that the media and fan atmosphere could affect the Browns' ability to find their man ... I hate to be Captain Obvious or Captain Cliche, but there are only 32 of these jobs available and the pay is very good. Even Chud, bad as I feel for him personally, is walking away with a $10.5M ego massage. We will find a coach.

Ditto the free agents - if the money is green they will come here for it, national perceptions be damned.

Everyone needs to calm down.

Vers what you don't seam to realize is that many of us can't quit rooting for the team. It's in our heart, in our soul, it's a agape love that we have for the team.

Jules and GM: I hear you guys. I understand.

You two should both know me by now. Don't take any of that crap personal.


Dave: Good point.

I don't take it personal Vers. Just think of me as one of the guys in Grumpy old men lol

Shortly after McDaniels was fired, Browns general manager Mike Lombardi, who was with NFL Network at the time, wrote for nfl.com that the Broncos didn't provide "enough time for the team to be fully developed, or enough time for McDaniels to grow into the job."


Lmao and smh.

So, lets say Mcdaniels is the new coach, went 3-13. I'll put the bank on bet that he wont be fired because he didnt have time to develop, sigh.

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Everyone needs to calm down.

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I couldn't get any calmer...I actually need to get excited...having a hard time doing that...

Chud got fired... and he doesn't have to work due to the millions he will make.. So I guess his future looks pretty exciting... I bet he's calm...

Here's why I'm calm...When I was young and had a 4 wheeler...there was this crazy hill and when you hit the top you could fly high and far... and that was exciting as hell...

But after a while that hill wasn't so exciting anymore... because i always knew what to expect...And I always landed in the same spot... So what did I do ? I went searching for another hill....

I assume we know most of Chuds future at this point.....

The question now should be...Whats our future ? Hopefully something that will bring excitement and have it last for sometime... Guess it's time to go searching again...

I think you speak the truth.

That's a good explanation, gage, but I do understand Versatile's point and quite frankly, that of the front office.

Versatile isn't going to sweat the firing of a 4 wins, 12 losses, HC. Everyone seems to be thinking that this is unprecedented in some way. It isn't.

The front office explained to the public that the team regressed during the season. Maybe that isn't purely Chudzinski's fault, but he is the one that takes the blame. If Chudzinski isn't the one to take the blame, then who is? He's the one that's ultimately responsible for how the team performs on the field. Was it Horton that let him down by not getting the defense properly prepared? Was it Turner that let him down by not getting the offense to respond and score enough? Was it a lack of effort by the players?

The only fault that you could realistically place at the feet of Jimmy Haslam and Joe Banner is that they're responsible for hiring Chudzinski in the first place.

The team seemed to respond to Hoyer as the QB after Weeden was injured. Then, after Hoyer went down, the air went out of the team. It was up to the HC and coordinators to get the team to respond and they failed. In most of the games, the Browns would play well enough in the first half to have the lead and then would completely collapse both offensively and defensively in the second half of games. That's what I think they found unacceptable.

The team was in the position to win games and they let them slip away. They let up points just before halftime to allow opponents to change the momentum in their favor. They let games slip away late.

I think Haslem and Banner screwed the pooch by being so ill prepared for that press conference, as the lies and contradictions were blatant. If they would have just put out a 3 point statement that:

-they felt we regressed as the season progressed

-the team didn't perform to their talent level

-the team lacked motivation to play 60 minutes of football.....a change was deemed necessary.

This would have been much more palatable to the fans than the BS they spewed in that press conference. I think after letting this sink in, a lot of the fans would have come to the conclusion that they weren't going to accept poor performance and will act promptly....just as they did with the Trich trade. Their arrogance and BS bit them in the arse.