|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,194 Likes: 136
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,194 Likes: 136 |
Quote:
People think it's funny that some imbecile made the 'three stooges' remark and it's earned the moron some media time (some Channel 19 in Cleveland bozo), but the Browns should keep anyone from Channel 19 out of the room from now on. That's just not acting professionally.
I'd have to go back and either re-read the presser or listen to it, but I think he (the reporter from Channel 19) made it clear that he was asking that question and making statements that he was reading from fans that responded to the stations facebook page.
So he was just reading what fans said. I see nothing wrong with that.
Quote:
The questions about Pilot/Flying J are irrelevant.
Yes they are relevant. If it in anyway impacts the Browns, it's relevant. Haslam said that it was a distraction so therefore it impacted his ability to spend more time with the Browns. that's all it takes to make it relevant.
One of the things I noticed having WATCHED the presser is Haslams facial expressions. I thought they were very telling.
I was just beginning to trust this front office. I had no problem with the Coaching staff they hired. I liked them. I wasn't, like most, overwhelmed with the draft but it was pretty clear to me they were stocking up for the 2014 draft so that wasn't a problem for me either.
I was in shock when I saw that TRich was traded but then after reflection, I realized that TRich wasn't what most of us thought or hoped he could be.
When I saw Hoyer lead this team they way he did, I thought, Damn, these guys seem to know what the hell they are doing.
Then they fire Chud. I don't see the silver lining in that. And when I WATCH the presser, I see Haslam and Banner struggling to answer hard questions with a straight face then I hear of Turner making what I would term very strong statements (which I thought were spot on) and I'm sorry, I can't believe in these guys right now.
They can, and I hope they do, win my trust back. But it's not going to be easy.
First step,get me a HC I can believe in.
Second step, Get the team a QB that either can start or be groomed
Third step, Fill holes in the roster that make sense.
Fourth, get the hell out of the way and let the coaches do their freakin jobs.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 68,349 Likes: 1370
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 68,349 Likes: 1370 |
Quote:
gage, I understand where you are coming from. I really do. I have many of the same feelings. It's frustrating. It's deflating. I just don't like this mob mentality and the woe is me crap.
Do you see frustration as "woe is me crap"? The two couldn't be further apart. And it's called "how the majority sees it", not "mob mentality".
Quote:
Furthermore, if I am a guy looking to get a HC job, I am not sure I want to come to a city where the local media refers to the top brass as The Three Stooges and the fan base is as hateful as this one is.
You mean a fan base that is actually supporting that a HC should be given the time and talent to succeed rather than kicked out the door in less than a year? Yeah, I'm sure HC candidates are more worried about that than the hasty firing of Chud. That makes zero sense right there.
Quote:
This is the same media that slaughtered Belichick daily in the papers and on the radio and the same fan base that hung dummies that resembled BB in the stands. I think we should give these guys the same amount of time the previous regime got before we go crazy.
People see a pattern here to what has been going on for so long. I don't want these people fired, but to give them some free pass when as of now, it looks like an instant replay is something I think you are simply asking to much for.
Quote:
Oh........and this isn't to you, but I am not asking anyone to leave. I don't care. My point is that if you really hate the team this much, why stick around and make yourself miserable? It's not like being a kid who has abusive parents and you have to stay. You are free to quit rooting for the team. Why torture yourself?
If fans wanted to quit, they would.
It's their passion for this team, their desire to win and love for the Browns that bring this out. Not the other way around. This will be a fiasco until it isn't. Hopefully this FO will land "their guy" this time and he will be a winner. That's what everyone wants.
You've said yourself how much this move wasn't what you expected. People vent when they're upset. To call that whining, woe is me or anything else in that manner is so far from being honest and accurate, there's no measure for it.
It's what people who actually help foot the bill for things do. Expect as much accountability from those who preached about continuity, as they expected from the guy they fired.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
Quote:
Oh........and this isn't to you, but I am not asking anyone to leave. I don't care. My point is that if you really hate the team this much, why stick around and make yourself miserable? It's not like being a kid who has abusive parents and you have to stay. You are free to quit rooting for the team. Why torture yourself? You mean like you all did when Holmgren was here? 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
This is how I feel ...this has been my team since 1965..it always has been ..as long they are there ,they are my team.
That said I am sick of these crappy seasons and the mismanagement and poor results for the last 14 years.
Its been long enough for the FO to get it right.
Other teams do.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,259
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,259 |
Vers, My passion for football runs through Cleveland. Here in TX I've had several cowboys/texans fans suggest I just adopt a texas team to see some more wins, and I'm just not wired that way. When we lost the Browns in 95 I tried for a few weeks to follow the Packers but just stopped watching football entirely. I watched a few quarters of our return preseason game against Dallas. I was still pretty upset our team was taken though... so I didn't warm up to the team until the playoff game against Pittsburgh. From then I've watched just about every game and I will continue to do so, eagerly awaiting the return of quality football to the city. Cleveland isn't just the team I root for when I watch football, Cleveland IS football to me. I rarely watch other games and I rarely watch playoff football because it has no importance to the Browns except for say, draft position like this year. So when you say things like just stop watching or pick another team, that may be something you could do, I dunno. But for me it's Cleveland or nothing. I love them and just want the best for them 
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
I'd have to go back and either re-read the presser or listen to it, but I think he (the reporter from Channel 19) made it clear that he was asking that question and making statements that he was reading from fans that responded to the stations facebook page.
Oh, I know what he said. I have no doubt that it's actually true. He decided to take that and run with it. Just because some moronic Browns fan writes something stupid on their TV station's facebook page, he should be obligated to use it in a press conference? Seriously, you're suggesting that as a defense?
Quote:
So he was just reading what fans said. I see nothing wrong with that.
Thank goodness he didn't use some the moronic things that have been posted on this message board. I see a great deal wrong with it. It shows a huge lack of class by the reporter and that's to say nothing of the 'fan' that wrote it on their facebook page.
Quote:
Yes they are relevant. If it in anyway impacts the Browns, it's relevant. Haslam said that it was a distraction so therefore it impacted his ability to spend more time with the Browns. That's all it takes to make it relevant.
No it isn't, because he said it was behind them. There were follow-up questions about it. Furthermore, it had nothing to do with the firing of Chudzinski as the HC of the Browns. It can distract the owner totally. If it distracts Chudzinski or the players, then that's an added reason why he should have been fired. Any player that is distracted by it should be let go too.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 68,349 Likes: 1370
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 68,349 Likes: 1370 |
While I do see your point, I don't see it as any less moronic than preaching continuity, building for the long haul, then firing your HC after one season when he had to go through 3 QB's with no running game.
Sometimes you simply reap what you sew.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,098 Likes: 294
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,098 Likes: 294 |
j/c.... Defensive back Joe Haden and tight end Jordan Cameron felt the organization’s desire to win with Sunday’s firing of coach Rob Chudzinski. When Cleveland Browns owner Jimmy Haslam and chief executive officer Joe Banner relieved Rob Chudzinski of his coaching duties on Sunday night, to the players, it signified the organization’s desire to reverse its fortunes, win games and compete for championships in the short term. And the players believe the Browns have the talent in place to achieve that mission, starting with the 2014 season. “We’ve got to realize we’ve got a really good team and we have a really good group of talented, core players,” Pro Bowl cornerback Joe Haden said. “We have to be stepping up. We’ve got to start closing games at the end. We’ve got to start finishing, and that’s the biggest thing, knowing that we have the guys here. We’ve just got to start winning. It has to start somewhere. “Nobody’s playing around. The time is now. It’s not going to be a building process. They really want things to start snapping.” link
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
While I do see your point, I don't see it as any less moronic than preaching continuity, building for the long haul, then firing your HC after one season when he had to go through 3 QB's with no running game.
Oh, I don't dispute that. I just think that maybe the coaching staff misunderstood that when they said they wanted continuity, they didn't mean another 4-12 or 5-11 season. And they told the coaches to plan for the long haul. Apparently, they figured that continuing to lose was what they new owner and front office wanted.
You come to the dance with the players that you have. And you can blame the previous regime for placing the necklace that is Brandon Weeden around his neck. What would the fans here (and most everywhere else) have said if they had cut Weeden after a single season on the roster? They would have been criticized for that move. The same thing goes for Richardson. You saw how quickly they pulled the trigger on the trade that sent Richardson to Indy. Initially, they took a lot of heat for that move but it's proven to be quite a good trade for the Browns. Since being traded, Richardson has done next to nothing in Indy too.
Quote:
Sometimes you simply reap what you sew.
Sew? Do you mean the past tense of 'sow' or are you stitching something together? 
Sometimes you have to declare the harvest a bad one and reseed the field during the next planting season. To rip out the seams and restitch it so that it fits.
See what I did there? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,850 Likes: 108
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,850 Likes: 108 |
Haden hasn't been right very often this year. PB aside, the talk is better than the walk. This and Weedy and JC telling us exactly what was needed and such . . .humbug. Spare me the crap. All hat and no cattle. Failed miserably to get 'er done this year.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 68,349 Likes: 1370
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 68,349 Likes: 1370 |
Quote:
Oh, I don't dispute that. I just think that maybe the coaching staff misunderstood that when they said they wanted continuity, they didn't mean another 4-12 or 5-11 season. And they told the coaches to plan for the long haul. Apparently, they figured that continuing to lose was what they new owner and front office wanted.
I don't believe the coaching staff misunderstood anything. To me that would mean they tried to lose or weren't trying to win. I don't believe that to be the case at all.
What I see is we only had one QB that performed to the level at which we had a chance of winning. That was Hoyer. This coaching staff had him listed at the #3 QB, and actually saw his potential to the point they elevated him above Campbell and did win with a QB who could actually play average at the position.
Hoyer ia no Aaron Rogers or Drew Brees, but he was good enough to win with. To me, that's a very strong indication that if given some talent on O, Chud can win. Even at that we were a one dimensional O.
I believe many fans saw that as, "This is a very good sign. Once they give Chud same talent to work with, we can win with him as our HC". In the limited time they had Hoyer playing, they won.
Quote:
You come to the dance with the players that you have. And you can blame the previous regime for placing the necklace that is Brandon Weeden around his neck. What would the fans here (and most everywhere else) have said if they had cut Weeden after a single season on the roster? They would have been criticized for that move. The same thing goes for Richardson. You saw how quickly they pulled the trigger on the trade that sent Richardson to Indy. Initially, they took a lot of heat for that move but it's proven to be quite a good trade for the Browns. Since being traded, Richardson has done next to nothing in Indy too.
There's no doubt who to blame for the Weeden mistake. While that mistake certainly doesn't fall on the shoulders of this FO, neither does it fall on the shoulders of Chud.
I do disagree that this FO would have taken a lot of heat for letting Weeden go after one season. Well, maybe YTown.
While the fan base was hopeful that Weeden would somehow do better in Chud's system, I don't believe the confidence level in that happening were very high.
And you are right, you come to the dance with the players you have. But with no QB and no running game, you can't expect an amputee to really dance can you? At least not nearly to the level of others with two healthy legs.
Quote:
Quote:
Sometimes you simply reap what you sew.
Sew? Do you mean the past tense of 'sow' or are you stitching something together?
Sometimes you have to declare the harvest a bad one and reseed the field during the next planting season. To rip out the seams and restitch it so that it fits.
See what I did there?
Yes, I see what you did. You played something most call "The Grammar police".
But I'll go with your analogy. When a farmer has no rain with which to grow a successful harvest, he needs more rain or the next harvest won't be any better. You don't blame the poor harvest on the farmer because there was no rain.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Quote:
j/c....
Defensive back Joe Haden and tight end Jordan Cameron felt the organization’s desire to win with Sunday’s firing of coach Rob Chudzinski.
When Cleveland Browns owner Jimmy Haslam and chief executive officer Joe Banner relieved Rob Chudzinski of his coaching duties on Sunday night, to the players, it signified the organization’s desire to reverse its fortunes, win games and compete for championships in the short term.
And the players believe the Browns have the talent in place to achieve that mission, starting with the 2014 season.
“We’ve got to realize we’ve got a really good team and we have a really good group of talented, core players,” Pro Bowl cornerback Joe Haden said. “We have to be stepping up. We’ve got to start closing games at the end. We’ve got to start finishing, and that’s the biggest thing, knowing that we have the guys here. We’ve just got to start winning. It has to start somewhere.
“Nobody’s playing around. The time is now. It’s not going to be a building process. They really want things to start snapping.”
link
This one will be ignored. It doesn't fuel the fire of hate and indignation that so many are reveling in.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,440 Likes: 450
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,440 Likes: 450 |
Quote:
Quote:
j/c....
Defensive back Joe Haden and tight end Jordan Cameron felt the organization’s desire to win with Sunday’s firing of coach Rob Chudzinski.
When Cleveland Browns owner Jimmy Haslam and chief executive officer Joe Banner relieved Rob Chudzinski of his coaching duties on Sunday night, to the players, it signified the organization’s desire to reverse its fortunes, win games and compete for championships in the short term.
And the players believe the Browns have the talent in place to achieve that mission, starting with the 2014 season.
“We’ve got to realize we’ve got a really good team and we have a really good group of talented, core players,” Pro Bowl cornerback Joe Haden said. “We have to be stepping up. We’ve got to start closing games at the end. We’ve got to start finishing, and that’s the biggest thing, knowing that we have the guys here. We’ve just got to start winning. It has to start somewhere.
“Nobody’s playing around. The time is now. It’s not going to be a building process. They really want things to start snapping.”
link
This one will be ignored. It doesn't fuel the fire of hate and indignation that so many are reveling in.
Oh. So it took the firing of a 1 year head coach for haden and some of the players to realize they're in a league where you need to perform?
Just think how egged on the players will be when we fire the next coach. Maybe they'll realize it then?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Maybe it did, because they sure as hell have sucked every year that they have been here.
I'm glad you guys were happy w/4 and 12. It's time for some accountability. And if the FO can't show significant improvement in three years [same amount of time the previous regime got and did not even improve by one game], then they should go too.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563 |
The standard is set now, though.
They have to have immediate success or the whole group should be shown the door. They want to be a no excuse team, fine, but they better realize that goes for everyone now. No more 3-5 year plans to get back to the playoffs. They made it clear, 4-12 isn't good enough anymore.
They have to win, bare minimum, 7 games next year or their jobs are probably in jeopardy. That's the spot they have put themselves in.
you had a good run Hank.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
You DO realize that this an incredibly mis-leading headline from the official website aka The Stooges PR machinery.
If it gets ignored, then rightfully so, because this sneaky PR piece with it's misleading headline suggests some kind of "happiness" of said players about Chud getting fired....something they didnt even come close to saying. All they said is that they got the boot camp "watch out" memo in a Company line way. Haden even complimented Chud, but somehow that didn't pass your censorship, although you posted over half the article...hmm
And you go around threads accusing others of agenda....lol
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,311 Likes: 174
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,311 Likes: 174 |
Quote:
Quote:
j/c....
Defensive back Joe Haden and tight end Jordan Cameron felt the organization’s desire to win with Sunday’s firing of coach Rob Chudzinski.
When Cleveland Browns owner Jimmy Haslam and chief executive officer Joe Banner relieved Rob Chudzinski of his coaching duties on Sunday night, to the players, it signified the organization’s desire to reverse its fortunes, win games and compete for championships in the short term.
And the players believe the Browns have the talent in place to achieve that mission, starting with the 2014 season.
“We’ve got to realize we’ve got a really good team and we have a really good group of talented, core players,” Pro Bowl cornerback Joe Haden said. “We have to be stepping up. We’ve got to start closing games at the end. We’ve got to start finishing, and that’s the biggest thing, knowing that we have the guys here. We’ve just got to start winning. It has to start somewhere.
“Nobody’s playing around. The time is now. It’s not going to be a building process. They really want things to start snapping.”
link
This one will be ignored. It doesn't fuel the fire of hate and indignation that so many are reveling in.
Did you really expect the Cleveland Browns official website to post anything to the contrary?
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
I do have an agenda, Dj. In fact, I think almost everyone has an agenda. It's a wise thing to have an agenda. Agendas are used in business. They are used in education. They are used in meetings worldwide. Advertisers use them. Who the heck does not have an agenda? Here is my agenda. I am giving the FO three years---the same amount of time that your heroes got--to show improvement. The previous regime did NOT IMPROVE THE RECORD BY EVEN ONE GAME IN THREE YEARS. This regime better improve the record by more than that or I will turn on them. Speaking of agendas.........I have noticed that you have not commented on Norv. You have been saying that the game has passed him by and that he was ineffective as an OC. Suddenly, you have been strangely silent in the light of his recent comments and his impending dismissal. Wonder why that is, Mr. I Don't Have an Agenda?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Quote:
Did you really expect the Cleveland Browns official website to post anything to the contrary?
No, not any more than I think for you guys to post something rational.
Btw--------are you saying Haden didn't say it?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Because I don't care much for Turner or Horton or Chud, as I didn't care much for Shurmur.
My only real "Hero" I went to bat for was Heckert and he managed to draft 4 PBs in 3 recent drafts. I'd be ecstatic if the Stooges can draft one in three drafts
That's as much regime pissing match as I'll give you because you try to stir it that way again, because you've already embarrassed yourself with posting that article....and NO, Haden did not say he was happy with Chud getting fired nor did he come even remotely close to implying that a NEW HC would lead to more wins like the Headline does. If anything he was directing blame at the players. If you can't read through the PR BS that's being spewed there, then you're hopeless.
Since I think you've smarter than that, I Happen to think you're being an apologist for a bunch of liars. I mean why do you defend these scums when you didn't like the move?
Oh, and whatever happened to the "consensus"? Now it's the FO you want to give three full years, not the dreaded consensus that turned out to be another farce. How can you trust even one word coming out of their mouths and still back them? It makes you look like a hypocrite along with them. That's an honest question and not meant as an insult.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,280 Likes: 604
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,280 Likes: 604 |
I dunno, bud. I think you're really reaching here. You don't have to search too hard to find some pretty scathing commentary from Browns players immediately after the firing of Chud (all anonymous, I'll admit). Before the official firing, Joe Thomas spoke pretty strongly against getting rid of Chud (at least, as strong as you're likely to get when going on the record and putting your name next to it, as he did).
This article (that comes from the Browns website) doesn't really jive with everything else out there (for what it's worth). I don't really much care for any of the news coming out right now. It's just a big poopstorm, and the truth is in little pieces and scattered among all these different articles flying around. I really don't have any interest in trying to go out there and piece it together.
I do want to comment on you saying you'll give the FO 3 years to evaluate. This is something that you've been saying since "go", and saying you have said you applied to previous regimes (I haven't been posting here long enough, and don't post on any other boards). I think this is a good way to do it, and I commend you in sticking to it, despite prevailing winds changing on a weekly basis. That being said, will you still use this length of time to evaluate these guys when they, obviously, are evaluating others on a very VERY different timeline? I'd like to hear what you think, because my initial opinion is that it's wrong to hold the FO to one timeline while they're holding others to a different timeline.
I expect Banner, Lombardi, and whoever to be tossed out after next season if they don't noticeably improve the on-field performance of the Browns (given the amount of time they gave Chud).
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,626 Likes: 823
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,626 Likes: 823 |
You sound like a moron talking about the Stooges....you like that....I don't...I am a Browns fan and support my team. It's obvious to me you don't are aren't.
I will refrain from my moron talk when others refrain from stooge talk.
Stooge comments should be sent to the smack shack...because that is all that it is...smack talk.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 51,494 Likes: 728
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 51,494 Likes: 728 |
Quote:
You sound like a moron talking about the Stooges....you like that....I don't...I am a Browns fan and support my team. It's obvious to me you don't are aren't.
Stooge comments should be sent to the smack shack...because that is all that it is...smack talk.
peen, its one thing to support the browns. we ALL do, i think thats clear as day since we all post on a freakin' message board.
its another to support a FO, or any, that has constantly ruined our team every single year, this being no different.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
I'm reaching?
First of all, I did not post the article as Dj claimed. I simply replied to it.
My point was that ALL the negative articles are getting a lot of run on here. Guys are searching for them. Then, they completely ignore this article. You don't find that ironic?
Look, I really don't care about that article. And I really don't care about these stupid articles about how awful our FO is. It's been one year.
I will give them three years. Most of you won't. Simple as that.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,280 Likes: 604
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,280 Likes: 604 |
These string of articles are pretty much what I expected. I think they're getting tired already with the name calling, but this should've been expected.
Bad move = Bad articles
This difference this one move has made is huge, and the media backlash is consequently huge.
This all takes away from my real question. Vers, have you considered shortening the evaluation period on the FO, given that they are using short evaluation periods for their direct reports? Your answer, actually, isn't that important as I'm much more interested to hear the rationale for said answer.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,626 Likes: 823
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,626 Likes: 823 |
Quote:
Quote:
You sound like a moron talking about the Stooges....you like that....I don't...I am a Browns fan and support my team. It's obvious to me you don't are aren't.
Stooge comments should be sent to the smack shack...because that is all that it is...smack talk.
peen, its one thing to support the browns. we ALL do, i think thats clear as day since we all post on a freakin' message board.
its another to support a FO, or any, that has constantly ruined our team every single year, this being no different.
No, I don't think we all do. Many show up only in crisis.....that said, I don't think this FO is ruining anything.
We won 4 games. Tell me how that is good?
It's obvious to me the FO made a mistake, and are now trying to correct the mistake, but some don't want me to say that.....they are the same people who were saying we should stick with Couch 3-4-5 years in to that failed episode.
One and done....I am good with that....win or hit the road....really, that is the only way to a SuperBowl win.....right? That's what we want....right?
Anything less than a Super Bowl win is a failed season....at least in my book it is.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,440 Likes: 450
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,440 Likes: 450 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You sound like a moron talking about the Stooges....you like that....I don't...I am a Browns fan and support my team. It's obvious to me you don't are aren't.
Stooge comments should be sent to the smack shack...because that is all that it is...smack talk.
peen, its one thing to support the browns. we ALL do, i think thats clear as day since we all post on a freakin' message board.
its another to support a FO, or any, that has constantly ruined our team every single year, this being no different.
No, I don't think we all do. Many show up only in crisis.....that said, I don't think this FO is ruining anything.
We won 4 games. Tell me how that is good?
It's obvious to me the FO made a mistake, and are now trying to correct the mistake, but some don't want me to say that.....they are the same people who were saying we should stick with Couch 3-4-5 years in to that failed episode.
One and done....I am good with that....win or hit the road....really, that is the only way to a SuperBowl win.....right? That's what we want....right?
Anything less than a Super Bowl win is a failed season....at least in my book it is.
So, you WILL hold the next coach to the same fire, right? new coach gets 1 year, plus all the draft picks. If we don't make the playoffs, you'll be calling for his head, right?
If not........you need to back off your statements.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Quote:
Your answer, actually, isn't that important as I'm much more interested to hear the rationale for said answer.
LOL.............if there was ever a loaded question, this is it. Whatever, I don't care......I'll answer it.
I will give them 3 years. Same as H and H got. All the H and H homers were crying they only got three years. They wanted five.
Three years seems fair.
Look, I don't know what happened w/Chud. I don't think any of you do, either. My experience tells me that there is more to this story than what we are being told, just as there was w/Kokinas, or whatever his name is.
There very well could be reasons for his dismissal that the top brass isn't sharing out of respect for Chud. I no longer have inside information, but I know how things work. There is more to this story than we are privy to.
But again..............I am not trying to convince anyone to give them more time. I am simply stating my opinion, just as I did when I disagreed w/the masses about Junior, about Collins, about Butch, about Savage, about Romeo, about Holmgren. Many of the same people calling me clueless are the same people who called me clueless in each of those situations.
Heck, did you read the posts earlier this year? I was belittled for saying TRich was an ordinary back and that he lacked vision and instincts and that the rib thing was an excuse. I was slammed for saying Weeden would not drastically improve under Norv because he couldn't read coverages. These guys always act like I am making crap up, that I only post because of my agenda, that I don't know what I am talking about. They then get mad if I bring things up once they play out.
And I guarantee you guys one thing............if this team starts winning, believe me when I tell you, I am going to bring up all these hateful posts again.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,626 Likes: 823
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,626 Likes: 823 |
Not only that, I'll start to question Banner and Lombardi.
I think this move also put a shot over the bow of them. I don't think either Banner or Lombardi was behind this move....at least in a big way. I think it was Haslam....as in saying this is the guy you two advised me to hire....if we don't get the next one right, I'll find new advisors.
So for those of you who don't like Banner and Lombardi....they are offically on notice. At least that is how I see it. Face it....in a FO, the coach is the first to go, then the GM, and or the President.....just depends if the President can convince the owner the talent lacks and blame the GM or if the GM can convince the owner the President is at fault with bad adivce. Many times the owner starts fresh and cans them both.
Banner better get a good coach and Lombo better get at least 4-5 players who can have solid impact on this team for the next 4-5 years, or they are done.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,440 Likes: 450
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,440 Likes: 450 |
Quote:
Look, I don't know what happened w/Chud. I don't think any of you do, either. My experience tells me that there is more to this story than what we are being told, just as there was w/Kokinas, or whatever his name is.
There very well could be reasons for his dismissal that the top brass isn't sharing out of respect for Chud. I no longer have inside information, but I know how things work. There is more to this story than we are privy to.
But again..............I am not trying to convince anyone to give them more time. I am simply stating my opinion, just as I did when I disagreed w/the masses about Junior, about Collins, about Butch, about Savage, about Romeo, about Holmgren. Many of the same people calling me clueless are the same people who called me clueless in each of those situations.
Heck, did you read the posts earlier this year? I was belittled for saying TRich was an ordinary back and that he lacked vision and instincts and that the rib thing was an excuse. I was slammed for saying Weeden would not drastically improve under Norv because he couldn't read coverages. These guys always act like I am making crap up, that I only post because of my agenda, that I don't know what I am talking about. They then get mad if I bring things up once they play out.
And I guarantee you guys one thing............if this team starts winning, believe me when I tell you, I am going to bring up all these hateful posts again.
Wow. You disagreed with Jr., Collins, Butch, Savage, Romeo, Holmgren. wow, you've disagreed with just about everyone that's had anything to do with Browns football. That makes you............a know it all in hindsight. Kudo's.
It is so damn obvious you know more than anyone, it's beyond belief that you aren't running a team.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
Quote:
The standard is set now, though.
They have to have immediate success or the whole group should be shown the door. They want to be a no excuse team, fine, but they better realize that goes for everyone now. No more 3-5 year plans to get back to the playoffs. They made it clear, 4-12 isn't good enough anymore.
They have to win, bare minimum, 7 games next year or their jobs are probably in jeopardy. That's the spot they have put themselves in.
Not really... just don't collapse at the end of games against bad teams like Jax, don't mail in the second half of the season, don't finish 27th in points scored and 23rd in points allowed, don't be the worst team in the NFL on 3rd down, both on offense and defense, don't be one of the worst teams in the NFL in the red zone on offense and defense... This team could have been a 4 win team and Chud could have kept his job if it had looked different on the field.... that's JMHO... How do you look around the locker room and see 5 guys going to the pro-bowl and another one or two that were probably close and think.. we won FOUR games? We gave up 31 points in one quarter against the Bengals in a game we needed to win... we didn't show up for either game against a mediocre Steelers team (our alleged rival)... we let Jax go 80 yards to win the game in the final minutes (giving up 32 points to the worst offense in the NFL)... We gave up 24 second half points to the Lions and scored 0 when we had a 10 point lead.... Your choices are replacing a whole bunch of players or replacing the coaching staff.. if it took replacing the coaching staff for the players to get the message that this is just not freaking acceptable, then so be it
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 825 Likes: 27
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 825 Likes: 27 |
Quote:
Quote:
Look, I don't know what happened w/Chud. I don't think any of you do, either. My experience tells me that there is more to this story than what we are being told, just as there was w/Kokinas, or whatever his name is.
There very well could be reasons for his dismissal that the top brass isn't sharing out of respect for Chud. I no longer have inside information, but I know how things work. There is more to this story than we are privy to.
But again..............I am not trying to convince anyone to give them more time. I am simply stating my opinion, just as I did when I disagreed w/the masses about Junior, about Collins, about Butch, about Savage, about Romeo, about Holmgren. Many of the same people calling me clueless are the same people who called me clueless in each of those situations.
Heck, did you read the posts earlier this year? I was belittled for saying TRich was an ordinary back and that he lacked vision and instincts and that the rib thing was an excuse. I was slammed for saying Weeden would not drastically improve under Norv because he couldn't read coverages. These guys always act like I am making crap up, that I only post because of my agenda, that I don't know what I am talking about. They then get mad if I bring things up once they play out.
And I guarantee you guys one thing............if this team starts winning, believe me when I tell you, I am going to bring up all these hateful posts again.
Wow. You disagreed with Jr., Collins, Butch, Savage, Romeo, Holmgren. wow, you've disagreed with just about everyone that's had anything to do with Browns football. That makes you............a know it all in hindsight. Kudo's.
It is so damn obvious you know more than anyone, it's beyond belief that you aren't running a team.
Funny how he left off his boy Mangini, who set back this franchise more in one off season than any other regime, and that's saying something.
Last edited by OrangeCrush; 01/02/14 10:37 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044 |
Quote:
I will give them three years. Most of you won't. Simple as that.
I was not against giving this regime 3-5 years (before they fired Chud), but now they have shown me that they knee jerk very easily and are not willing to seea plan through.
the reason why the Browns have sucked the last 14 years and the Steelers haven't is because of ownership....do you really think the Rooney's would have canned their 1st year coach? Nope...that's not what they do....they actually give the guys they hire a chance to actually build and fix things.
I think Knoll had like 3 straight losing seasons...Yes Chuck Knoll went 1-13 his 1st yeat, 5-9 his 2nd year, and 6-8 his 3rd year....those 1st 3 seasons were horrid for Knoll....yet the Rooney's stayed the course.....
Bill Cowher had back to back losing season in 98 and 99...going 6-10 in 99....he also had a 6-10 season in 2003...did the Steelers fire Cowher? Of course not...
The Knoll example is glaring one...the Rooney's uderstand that is "more then the coach" and actually have the vision to see things through....Mike Tomlin could have went 3-13 in his 1st season and the Steelers still would not have fired him because they don't panic and knee jerk like we do.
I hate the Steelers, but they and the Rooney's are masters at creating a positive conductive environment that gives people the ability to spread their legs, not to be afraid of failure, not to be afraid to try new things, and actually succeed.....
The Browns? our last 3 coaches have not gotten more then 2 seasons, and Chud got one....that's why this team isn't any good....it can take 4-5 years and much of the roster replaced with new players to change a culture in football lockeroom....Look at the losing culture Knoll had to reverse in Pittsburgh...prior to his arrival that team was horrid...it took Knoll 3 years of changing the roster and instituting a program to clean up that mess.
regardless of your feelings on a coach, your not going to be successful unless you give a coach more then 2 years....4-5 should be the minimum....oh heres a novel idea Jimmy...instead of paying coaches to sit on the couch because you canned them, why not actually make them work out the length of their contracts....you know...so you actually force them to work for the money your handing out to them...
firing a coach and then paying him millions to sit home is the most moronic business move a person can make...that's a huge waste of money down the drain that will have to be recouped somehow in higher ticket prices, parking prices, food prices, etc...one way or another the fans pay for every coaching change...and that's just not fair or conductive at all.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,003 Likes: 370
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,003 Likes: 370 |
Quote:
And I guarantee you guys one thing............if this team starts winning, believe me when I tell you, I am going to bring up all these hateful posts again.
Yeah .... so?
I'm sure that if you're wrong, someone on the other side will bring up tour comments. So what? What difference will it really make.
Nothing like trying to intimidate another person, on a message board, into following you.
Sorry, but I don't see this group getting it done now. If they do, great ..... but I don't see them getting anyone worthwhile in here. I see us losing out is we wind up in competition for the services of a coach. I don't even see this happening because of the talent on the team, because this team has some very good talent, and had resources galore. However, the perception, right now, after we fired our 4th head coach in 6 years, is that this is an organization in chaos. if we want McDaniels, we have to negotiate with Chud's agent for his services, Think that his agent might not have a little insight into what truly happened? Who knows? We were "all set to hire" Kelly too.
Until this front office proves otherwise, they get to wear the red noses and white face paint,. and go by the names Bozo, Bingo, and Bonzo. That is my perception (when I am feeling generous) of them. You don't like that .... and that's fine. I would love to be wrong. Time will tell. If you want to blast me for questioning whether or not this group has any clue what they are doing as of right now, then fine. It won't be the 1st time. I can take a little message board shaming. (oh the horror!)
You agree with the stance this front office has taken. That's fine. It's your right. I disagree. Vehemently. I think that it makes them look bad. I think it makes them look like they are looking for a scapegoat. I also think that they couldn't hire the guy they wanted last year, because of who they are, and what the team is. Now that we have developed some players, maybe a coach they actually like will want to come here.
Now, I don't even care that they fired Chud. Well, I do ..... but that's their decision. They can do as they please. What I do have a problem with is the crap they tried to smear him with. Didn't develop players? Bull. He (and his staff) helped develop Gordon, Cameron, Haden, Skrine, and Gipson. All of those players performed at a much higher level than in the past. Haden went from being pretty decent, to actiually shutting down some of the bext in the game. Gordon became the best in the game, according to yards .... even missing 2 games. When you consider the QB situation, that's astonishing. They were able to create a running game to some extent, despite having no RBs. That's incredible. Unfortunately, the one position you cannot "create' is a QB. When we were down to Weeden and Campbell, we were done. We actually tied Pittsburgh in running the ball at 27th in the league. That sucks, but based on having McGahee, Obi, and God knows who else, (before Baker came on the scene, a player that Chud had before, and wanted here, by the way) it's incredible. We effectively used trick plays, and end arounds, and Wildcat formations to make a run game out of nothing. However, there are times when you just have to be able to line up and run the ball, and we could not develop anything like that until late in the season with Baker.
I look at these factors, and ask what coach could have succeeded here? I don't doubt that Chud made mistakes, but he was aggressive, even with less talent than most teams we played. He was also working to try and develop players. That doesn't mean that he gave them spots. The perfect example is McFadden. The front office (illegally, IMHO) stuck Owens on IR so that the team would have to play McFadden, even if he hadn't shown himself to be the 3rd best CB in practices. They desperately wanted to see him play. Owens, of course, protested, was then released, and signed on with another team. This is not how a professional team should operate. JMHP.
Anyway, I hope that you enjoy whatever you see with this time.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,280 Likes: 604
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,280 Likes: 604 |
Nope. Not a loaded question at all. At least that wasn't the intention. I said I was more interested in your rationale because a simple yes or no doesn't help me to learn/understand better. You do frequently mention that you prefer to talk football, but you neglect to include that it comes with biting people's heads off. Not all of us can be a football genius like you.
OK, that's enough of the drama. As the days go by, it gets easier to look at the move with less bias. It's convenient to see this move as proof that Banner is control freak, and Haslam is Jerry Jones 2.0 as that was the popular slam against them when they were on their way in. I am starting to come around, and the more I do, the more I agree with you that there was something big going down that we aren't privy to. My only doubt was that that was made pretty clear when it did happen with Kokinis. It could be that Chud really did have some love affair with Weeden, and wanted to keep working on him.
The best we can do is speculate, and I'd rather look ahead. I'm not too enamored with the idea of McDaniels. His body of work really doesn't woo me, but I've been wrong before. I'm really not enamored with the idea of Schwartz, but that's only because he's a grade AAA jumbo a-hole.
What would the impact be to our offensive personnel going to a McDaniels offense? We need to draft a QB and at least one RB, regardless. What happens to Campbell? Should we pencil in Hoyer as the starter? What oline schemes and personnel? Does McDaniels have a preference between defensive schemes? I believe New England technically runs a 3-4, but I believe they've leaned heavily towards having 4 down lineman lately (or was that because they lost Wilfork early in the season?).
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
Quote:
It could be that Chud really did have some love affair with Weeden, and wanted to keep working on him.
I thought it was widely accepted that one of the most important things the Browns needed to do in the 2013 season was to find out what they had in Weeden.
• He started early
• Went down with an injury
• Did not return when healthy but only once Hoyer went down
• Two games later he was benched in favor of Campbell due to being ineffective
• Came back to start only because Campbell was injured
• Once Campbell was healthy Campbell returned as the starter.
That doesn't sound to me like Chud had a "love affair" with Weeden.
What it sounds like is Chud gave him every chance to redeem himself only when he had no other choice. In fact, when asked how he felt about starting Weeden when both Hoyer and Campbell were injured he said, "He's all we got". Not much of an endorsement.
I think Chud did what the FO wanted him to do. To see what they had in Weeden. Once he knew, early on, Weeden became the last resort at QB starting with the KC game in which Campbell started.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
Truthfully it sounded like the FO was just dumb.
They wanted to cut Weeden, which is fine, but didn't sign someone to take over Weeden's spot. Had we cut Weeden what would we have done with our QB if JC goes down? Do we start Gray or Edwards at QB?
They wanted to cut Greg Little, which I don't agree with, but it's acceptable, but didn't bring in talent to replace him as a #2. Had we cut Little we would have had Josh Cooper as our #2 for our last game.
I heard they also wanted to cut Lavaman, which I would love, but I realize how dumb it is. I'm not sure what part of the season they wanted to cut him at, but it would have meant either Gilkey or Pinkston playing guard for the rest of the season. I'm not sure if Pinkston was even ready to go this season or if Gilkey should be playing in the NFL.
You won't find a bigger Weeden hater than me on this board and you won't find a bigger Greg Little fanatic on this board, but not cutting both was the right thing to do if you're trying to have a team to play with.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 26,839 Likes: 482
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 26,839 Likes: 482 |
Vers I believe my agenda was clear way back in Jan of last year when I posted this.
#1006043 - Fri Jan 18 2013 08:17 PM
Reply to this post Reply Reply to this post Quote
As bad as they are are buddy the hiring of Lombardi is 100 times worse. The fact that Haslam bought into this total crock of.... ummmmm... crap .. just amazes and shocks the hell out of me. I thought we had a smart owner who only needed to learn to get up to speed, now I see that we have an owner who does not have a fr.....eakin clue, and who listens to a worthless, good for nothing, little weasel like Banner.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,276
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,276 |
I am either brilliant or a crazy madden player but here are my thoughts on this.
A QB who is dynamic and inexperienced is better than a qb who sucks. I didn't say it often, but absolutely our best QB on the roster over the years was Josh Cribbs. Why is that you say? Because our other QBs were so terrible, that running some kind of spread with Cribbs at least had the opportunity to turn every play into a big play. Every QB we have started has been in the bottom five of the league every season since 2007. (outside of a few stretches where all of most of our QBs had some good games)
And yes. 50% of the WRs off any practice squad in the league would be better than Little. Because the vast majority of them wouldn't be leading the league in drops. A WRs job is to catch the ball consistently. I don't care about his athletic prowess if he can't catch. The exact same can be said about Bess.
I don't think Lava was on the scale of massive failure that Weeden and Little possess. It would have to be a guy more like Cousins first game. A few teams and their fans would be able to tell you what terrible guard play looks like. We didn't see that this season, we saw below average guard play.
I don't think you need to cut these guys. And to be fair Weeden was demoted. As was Little..for a week or two. I thought Campbell played well enough that replacing him with a UDFA wouldn't have worked. But I do think in the long history of QB ineptitude I would like to have had atleast one game where we had a guy like Gray or Cribbs come in and spice things up. Tebow would have worked in this capacity as well. That is how horrid our QB play has been.
Last edited by Kingcob; 01/03/14 07:55 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,871 Likes: 965
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,871 Likes: 965 |
Quote:
the Rooney's are masters at creating a positive conductive environment that gives people the ability to spread their legs, not to be afraid of failure, not to be afraid to try new things,
Maybe they should try the adult movie industry.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Report: Browns HC Rob
Chudzinski’s Future In Doubt
|
|
