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the Rooney's are masters at creating a positive conductive environment that gives people the ability to spread their legs, not to be afraid of failure, not to be afraid to try new things,
Maybe they should try the adult movie industry.
That's it.... close the thread. What could top this?
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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When Chud got fired I was more in disbelief than anything else. Unlike you, I didn't get upset. I think it is because I have become numb from all the resets. I am giving Banner and Haslam more time because the last thing I want is to be negative. To me the Chud fiasco is the second bad move (hiring Lombardi was the first) that Banner has made. If they can bring in the right guy this time than firing Chud will turn into a positive, a bold move like trading Richardson. If he gets this wrong I will be calling for his head.
#gmstrong
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When Chud got fired I was more in disbelief than anything else. Unlike you, I didn't get upset. I think it is because I have become numb from all the resets. I am giving Banner and Haslam more time because the last thing I want is to be negative. To me the Chud fiasco is the second bad move (hiring Lombardi was the first) that Banner has made. If they can bring in the right guy this time than firing Chud will turn into a positive, a bold move like trading Richardson. If he gets this wrong I will be calling for his head.
Well said P. That is my position.
My opinion doesn't count. They feel they made the wrong hire. Ok, I don't know what all happened to make them feel that way. There had to be some things in the background we don't know about. I am not talking major stuff or bad or illegal things, just little things that add up...maybe he just irritated people with little comments.
I do like the fact that since they feel that way, the FO made a swift move, but as you said, if they blow this hire as well, Haslam needs to find someone else to do the hiring.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Numb,, yeah, that's the feeling I have.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Numb,, yeah, that's the feeling I have.
Numb and ambivalent... first time since the Bud carson era... I really just do not give a rats butt right now.
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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Subordinate Management Allegedly Got Them In Trouble (Pilot). Maybe Jimmy Doesnt Hire Worth A Damn WhIch makes The Browns/Pilot Question More Relevant.
I Want Them To Know The Fan And Media Are Scrutinizing Their Performanc Especially After All The Talk Of They're Going To Do This Right.
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Subordinate Management Allegedly Got Them In Trouble (Pilot). Maybe Jimmy Doesnt Hire Worth A Damn WhIch makes The Browns/Pilot Question More Relevant.
I Want Them To Know The Fan And Media Are Scrutinizing Their Performanc Especially After All The Talk Of They're Going To Do This Right.
I don't think that Jimmy Haslam cares too much about what you think of him. If you don't like the direction of the team, buy it and make the decisions. Until then, he shouldn't even care what you have to say. The same applies to me and every other Browns fan.
He wants a winning franchise on the field because that will mean more money in his pocket. He'll probably make a decent amount off the Browns anyway, but he wants a good return.
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Subordinate Management Allegedly Got Them In Trouble (Pilot). Maybe Jimmy Doesnt Hire Worth A Damn WhIch makes The Browns/Pilot Question More Relevant.
I Want Them To Know The Fan And Media Are Scrutinizing Their Performanc Especially After All The Talk Of They're Going To Do This Right.
I don't think that Jimmy Haslam cares too much about what you think of him. If you don't like the direction of the team, buy it and make the decisions. Until then, he shouldn't even care what you have to say. The same applies to me and every other Browns fan.
He wants a winning franchise on the field because that will mean more money in his pocket. He'll probably make a decent amount off the Browns anyway, but he wants a good return.
I agree. Screw the fans and media opinion. It's not like he is running for re-election. No doubt they need to be fan and media friendly, but not driven by them.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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If you don't like the direction of the team, buy it and make the decisions.
Will do. Now about that billion dollar loan you were going to give me …
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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If you don't like the direction of the team, buy it and make the decisions.
Will do. Now about that billion dollar loan you were going to give me …
If I had the billion to spend on the team, I might have bought the team myself instead of letting Haslam run the show. 
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Quote:
Subordinate Management Allegedly Got Them In Trouble (Pilot). Maybe Jimmy Doesnt Hire Worth A Damn WhIch makes The Browns/Pilot Question More Relevant.
I Want Them To Know The Fan And Media Are Scrutinizing Their Performanc Especially After All The Talk Of They're Going To Do This Right.
There sure are a lot of drama queens on this board. You don't like the Browns under Jimmy...........fine. Leave. It's simple. Go root for 49ers.
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Quote:
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Subordinate Management Allegedly Got Them In Trouble (Pilot). Maybe Jimmy Doesnt Hire Worth A Damn WhIch makes The Browns/Pilot Question More Relevant.
I Want Them To Know The Fan And Media Are Scrutinizing Their Performanc Especially After All The Talk Of They're Going To Do This Right.
There sure are a lot of drama queens on this board. You don't like the Browns under Jimmy...........fine. Leave. It's simple. Go root for 49ers.
You're pretty damn fond of saying that, aren't you?
You've told pretty much everyone that didn't agree with firing Chud, OR that doesn't agree with you to root for someone else.
Are you haslam's son or something? Or are you just a wanna be know it all that can't handle someone disagreeing with you. I know it's one of the two......just not sure which.
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There sure are a lot of drama queens on this board. You don't like the Browns under Jimmy...........fine. Leave. It's simple. Go root for 49ers.
I get the sentiment. I really do.
On the other hand, I'll also say this:
1. Some of us have been waiting patiently... from one regime change to another.
2. Some of us have been waiting patiently... through endless re-starts, re-tools, re-ups and perennial promises that "This time will be different."
3. Some of us have been waiting patiently... for a FO that looks like it knows what it's doing.
4. Some of us have seen the mistakes made by past regimes- (...and this is key-) and are now seeing the same ones being made by the current regime.
5. Some of us are seeing a new incarnation of the 'Same Old Same Old' that has plagued this team for a decade and a half....
...and we're no longer willing to take the ride based upon face value.
As I type this, the Browns have a better core team than they have had at any time since The Return. By the same token, I just spent an entire weekend watching teams that are MILES ahead of where the Browns currently find themselves.
For me, it isn't about being a 'Drama Queen.' For 15 years, I've made a supreme effort to be anything but a 'Drama Queen.' Now, it's about results.
***********************
I've already been sold a PR package. I've already been sold the promise that "next year will be better." I've already been told to "be patient."
Vers.... I did my freakkin' job.
I've done all that The Browns have asked of me as a fan. I've done all that I could as a fan.
And I've been rewarded with.... this.
________________
As a fellow packmate, I ask you- no, I BEG of you: please give me a reason (or list of reasons) why I should continue to follow this team, based upon its current legacy. I need your help, because I'm almost depleted of the stuff it takes to be a fan of this team.
In another post, I admitted that I was ready to 'jump ship' after 50+ years of Browns fandom, and become a Packers fan. I also have fandom for the Seattle Seahawks, based upon a bet I placed with My Father back in 1976.
I ask you: Do you REALLY think that this team can be what it takes to keep me as a fan, going forward?
Trust me- I'm not trying to put this all on you, but you do seem to have more faith in this FO than I have... and I need to understand why.
If you can give me a great answer, I might be able to extend my fandom for this team.
Please, PLEEEZE give me a reason to trust these guys...
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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There is this odd correlation between having a lousy quarterback and being a lousy franchise. I wonder if correcting that problem for the Browns would make all the other FO faults look trivial in comparison...hmmm...  Just my two cents, there is no reason to be a fan who wants to watch a winning team if the team doesn't have a quarterback. That just goes entirely against NFL physics. Head Coaches come and go and are basically meaningless in terms of success. A great QB...now that can really turn things around in a hurry. My only concern is that they are considering going from a player's coach in Chud to a guy who apparently wasn't well liked by his players in McDaniels. I despise the tough guy crap Mangini was pulling and I'd hate to see a coach with a similar philosophy brought in. Outside of that area I would obviously like someone who is flexible, innovative, and talented for sure... but I honestly believe with a good qb that stuff just doesn't matter much.
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Head Coaches come and go and are basically meaningless in terms of success.
I don't know that I'd go so far as to call HCs meaningless. If that was the case, Indy would have a lot more than one Super Bowl win in the Manning era.
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Head Coaches come and go and are basically meaningless in terms of success.
I don't know that I'd go so far as to call HCs meaningless. If that was the case, Indy would have a lot more than one Super Bowl win in the Manning era.
Or you could say that had Indy have built a better D, they would have more rings.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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You make a lot of sense Clem. I don't see how buying the company line makes anyone a better fan. Or if you don't buy it. someone feels you should just go away.
Sometimes expecting more is a good thing. Funny how they think it's a good thing when switching coaches, but not when you're a fan.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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You make a lot of sense Clem. I don't see how buying the company line makes anyone a better fan. Or if you don't buy it. someone feels you should just go away.
Sometimes expecting more is a good thing. Funny how they think it's a good thing when switching coaches, but not when you're a fan.
Not to go all Dr. Spock on you or anything but being a fan is inherently illogical... buying the company line? If this was a "company" in the sense of most companies, it would have 0 fans. How many times will you go to the same restaurant, the same barber, the same car dealership, the same tax accountant if they totally suck? Most would leave and never return after the very first bad experience... some might get a second chance but after screwing up again, not many would go back for thirds... so when I see posts about guys who have been screwed over for 15 years, 20 years, 50 years, whatever the number is... it kind of cracks me up...
Why would you leave now? (and trust me, I've thought about it)... but then what am I going to do when that team starts to suck? The precedent will have been set.
So why won't I ever go root for another team? FEAR. Plain and simple.... an unabashed fear that the year after I denounce my fandom, will be the year the Browns turn the corner.... It would be like investing into a company year after year and watching their stock go down, then pulling all of your money out right before they discover the next big thing and the stock goes through the roof.... I'm not sure when the Browns will be good, but I plan to be here when it happens..... Not to mention, rooting for another team and calling them "my favorite team" would just never feel right... I would have become the one thing I dislike most in a "fan".. and that is somebody that switches teams.... the other thing I don't like is somebody with "a second favorite team"...
Perhaps one of the differences between me and some others on here, I have learned to not let it drag me down and ruin days or weeks at a time of my life.... I'm optimistic, I predict good things, I look forward to the draft, the coaching hire, the next game... if it doesn't work out... I'll survive. I'll be temporarily frustrated but I've learned to get over it much quicker and move on....
yebat' Putin
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I don't think that Jimmy Haslam cares too much about what you think of him. If you don't like the direction of the team, buy it and make the decisions. Until then, he shouldn't even care what you have to say. The same applies to me and every other Browns fan.
Oh I think he cares. I think he'd love to be thought of in the same way the Rooney family is thought of in Pittsburgh. Let's face it, they don't always make popular decisions, but for the most part, the result is mostly positive.
Jimmy knows that and probably wants that to be the case with him.
Now, does he care enough to listen to you or me or Mutt, probably not really. If the three of us stood before him and told him what he should do, I suspect he'd be a gentleman, listen, nod his head and then do what he and Banner think is the right thing to do.
He knows how to get us on his side, Just win and everything else is not nearly as important.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Oh I think he cares. I think he'd love to be thought of in the same way the Rooney family is thought of in Pittsburgh.
Hopefully it doesn't take him that long to find success. 
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Now, does he care enough to listen to you or me or Mutt, probably not really. If the three of us stood before him and told him what he should do, I suspect he'd be a gentleman, listen, nod his head and then do what he and Banner think is the right thing to do.
I'm confused by what you are saying.. are you saying he SHOULD listen? Are you saying the Rooney's got to where they are because they listened to the fans? Help me out here.
yebat' Putin
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Oh I think he cares. I think he'd love to be thought of in the same way the Rooney family is thought of in Pittsburgh.
Hopefully it doesn't take him that long to find success.
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Now, does he care enough to listen to you or me or Mutt, probably not really. If the three of us stood before him and told him what he should do, I suspect he'd be a gentleman, listen, nod his head and then do what he and Banner think is the right thing to do.
I'm confused by what you are saying.. are you saying he SHOULD listen? Are you saying the Rooney's got to where they are because they listened to the fans? Help me out here.
No, I believe he is saying that Haslam would politely pretend that what you are saying was adding value and it would be forgotten before the door closed behind you.
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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I get that.. just wondering if he thinks that is what the Rooney's did... trying to get my head around the comparison...
yebat' Putin
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Head Coaches come and go and are basically meaningless in terms of success.
I don't know that I'd go so far as to call HCs meaningless. If that was the case, Indy would have a lot more than one Super Bowl win in the Manning era.
And New Orleans would have made the playoffs last season without HC Sean Payton.
A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.
– Jackie Robinson
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I guess I could have phrased it the spoon fed marketing line passed out to the fan base. The fans get displeased from seeing the reset button hit over and over. I think that's understandable. Haslam stated in his initial press conference about marketing. He has done an outstanding job of that at Pilot flying J. All things being equal, it's not because the fuel there is superior to others. However, the fuel is probably equal to others. And I believe that's why the fan base gets disgruntled. The product doesn't match up with the marketing. While I'm concerned that they either judged Chud wrong when they hired him or fired him. One or the other. I don't see it as a be all end all and say they can't succeed. I think it's okay to voice displeasure while still hoping for the best. I don't see them as mutually exclusive.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Oh I think he cares. I think he'd love to be thought of in the same way the Rooney family is thought of in Pittsburgh.
Hopefully it doesn't take him that long to find success.
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Now, does he care enough to listen to you or me or Mutt, probably not really. If the three of us stood before him and told him what he should do, I suspect he'd be a gentleman, listen, nod his head and then do what he and Banner think is the right thing to do.
I'm confused by what you are saying.. are you saying he SHOULD listen? Are you saying the Rooney's got to where they are because they listened to the fans? Help me out here.
WOW, talk about over thinking something I wasn't speaking of the Rooneys AT ALL when I said he'd not listen to us. NO REFERENCE to the Rooneys at all.
What I'm saying is that he'd be a Gentleman and listen to us lowly folks, but then do what he wants to anyway.
And I'm not saying he SHOULD listen to what any of us say. As much as some on here (at times, me included) think we know more than they (the FO) knows, truth be told, we probably don't have all the facts before us in order to make many decisions Haslam and Banner have to make.
So, I'd like it if they listen and use what's good, discard what isn't.
Hope that helps.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
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Oh I think he cares. I think he'd love to be thought of in the same way the Rooney family is thought of in Pittsburgh.
Hopefully it doesn't take him that long to find success.
Quote:
Now, does he care enough to listen to you or me or Mutt, probably not really. If the three of us stood before him and told him what he should do, I suspect he'd be a gentleman, listen, nod his head and then do what he and Banner think is the right thing to do.
I'm confused by what you are saying.. are you saying he SHOULD listen? Are you saying the Rooney's got to where they are because they listened to the fans? Help me out here.
No, I believe he is saying that Haslam would politely pretend that what you are saying was adding value and it would be forgotten before the door closed behind you.
Yup,, I guess I was clear.. for some
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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For me, it isn't about being a 'Drama Queen.' For 15 years, I've made a supreme effort to be anything but a 'Drama Queen.' Now, it's about results.
***********************
I've already been sold a PR package. I've already been sold the promise that "next year will be better." I've already been told to "be patient."
Vers.... I did my freakkin' job.
I've done all that The Browns have asked of me as a fan. I've done all that I could as a fan.
And I've been rewarded with.... this.
I apologize for the Drama Queen comment, but you did read what the guy wrote, right? You don't think some of these guys are being overly dramatic?
My point is really if you are that miserable, you can just leave. I have said this before, but it's not like we are children born into an abusive household. We choose to root for a team. We choose to ignore a team. We choose to dislike a team.
The key is that we have a choice. If anyone is really that miserable, why stick around?
I almost left. I despised Holmgren. I thought he would never lead us to the promised land. I could never get behind a guy who wasn't here most of the time. Who vacations during an NFL season other than that big, fat fraud? I also couldn't stand Junior. All this talk about him in Brown's PJs.  The guy fired so many people that everyone lost count.
I still don't get this pure hate for a regime that has fired ONE guy. It's not adding up for me.
Well, actually it is.
I believe that most of the guys hating on this regime didn't like them coming in. I believe that most really did like the previous regime. I believe that most of the guys ragging on the current FO have been waiting for a reason to slam them. I told you this before........I didn't see this same reaction to the previous regime even though they committed one huge error after another. Sorry Clem....I ain't buying this "woe is me" routine from most posters.
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As a fellow packmate, I ask you- no, I BEG of you: please give me a reason (or list of reasons) why I should continue to follow this team, based upon its current legacy. I need your help, because I'm almost depleted of the stuff it takes to be a fan of this team.
In another post, I admitted that I was ready to 'jump ship' after 50+ years of Browns fandom, and become a Packers fan. I also have fandom for the Seattle Seahawks, based upon a bet I placed with My Father back in 1976.
I ask you: Do you REALLY think that this team can be what it takes to keep me as a fan, going forward?
Trust me- I'm not trying to put this all on you, but you do seem to have more faith in this FO than I have... and I need to understand why.
If you can give me a great answer, I might be able to extend my fandom for this team.
Please, PLEEEZE give me a reason to trust these guys...
I hope you are sincere. I think I pretty much answered this on another thread. I have always liked you, Clem............and you seem like a great, great guy..........so, I will take you at your word.
I won't tell you trust them. They are business men, just like all the business men that came before them. PT Barnum said something like: there is a butt [sic] for every seat in the house. Why would you ever trust anyone who is trying to sell you something? Do you trust the people who sell you a car? How about a mechanic? The guy who comes to fix your roof? It's business.
With that said, do you think they want to fail? Do you think it's only about money? I kinda thought that it was all about money for Junior and The Big Show. I trusted Heckert to give it his best. Not the other two. What kind of lunatic only gives interviews through emails. Did you trust his mental competence? LOL
I think Haslam is a winner. I think he has a strong desire to succeed at everything. I think people are overblowing this thing about how he lied to us. Did he, really? Did he say "I promise the fans of Cleveland that we will have continuity," or did he say something like I believe in continuity??? I do believe him when he says he wants to win. I see the fire burning in his eyes.
Banner. Well, he is a business guy and he doesn't care if he steps on people. I do think he wants to win, though. I also think he is extremely intelligent. I think he is shrewd. I think he is a tireless worker. Those are things we never had before.
Lombardi? I think he is smart. Very smart. However, I don't care for him. I hope he is pushed to the background and we bring in another guy or give Farmer more say.
I do think Haslam was pissed after the team's late-season collapse. I think he demands accountability. I would not be surprised to see Lombardi's role diminished. I guess we will know if it is or not when we see if McDaniels is hired or not. Make no mistake, McDaniels is Lombardi's guy.
Clem, I can't promise you anything. If you are really that miserable..........you should quit rooting for the team. You don't even have to find another team. Just enjoy the game of football. I hope you don't go, because I think you bring an intelligence and a wit to the board that others can't. I enjoy reading your narratives. But man, why suffer when you don't have to?
I can say that I am fairly certain that this current set-up is the best we have had since our return. That isn't saying much, but I do think that these guys are going to work a lot harder to succeed than the previous owner and regimes did.
That's all I can give you, Clem.
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Oh I think he cares. I think he'd love to be thought of in the same way the Rooney family is thought of in Pittsburgh. Let's face it, they don't always make popular decisions, but for the most part, the result is mostly positive.
Maybe you're right but I wouldn't wager anything on it. I'm quite sure that he doesn't care what any fans think. He knows, if he puts a quality product on the field, the fans will be there to support him. He doesn't care what the fans think of the decisions he makes. He's got more riding on the decisions than you or I think.
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Jimmy knows that and probably wants that to be the case with him.
You speak about it like he views you as a peer of his. You aren't. The Rooneys are, but you aren't. I'm sure he cares more about what the Rooneys think of him than what fans think of him.
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Now, does he care enough to listen to you or me or Mutt, probably not really. If the three of us stood before him and told him what he should do, I suspect he'd be a gentleman, listen, nod his head and then do what he and Banner think is the right thing to do.
He might listen to any of the fans politely and if he found any of our arguments compelling, he might actually consider them, especially if it is something that he hasn't heard before. But if he's heard a bunch of the crap on this message board being spewed at him, he'd probably ignore it altogether and walk away without giving anyone a second thought about what they had to say about the Browns.
If you spoke to something about how to improve the stadium experience and make it more enjoyable, he would probably tell you to contact Alec Scheiner or one of his underlings and that it would be considered.
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He knows how to get us on his side, Just win and everything else is not nearly as important.
That's true. Just win. That's what he wants to do and I dare say that he probably knows as much as (probably more) about the evaluations process as anyone posting messages here. Somehow, I don't think that he's anywhere near the mold of Randy Lerner. I suspect that he's more along the lines of Al Lerner than Randy.
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Okay Clem, w/my previous post out of the way..........please, consider this:
This FO set us up perfectly for the upcoming draft. We acquired a first round pick for a dud RB. We got a 3rd round pick for a 4th. We got a 4th for a 5th. We traded away no picks to move up in the draft. Name one other Brown's FO that was able to accomplish anything remotely close to that!
We did not overspend in free agency last year. We have the ability to keep our own free agents or replace them w/other quality free agents.
Did you really think they could have gotten a draft choice for Colt?
The Bess trade did not work out, but was it a good deal at the time or not? What did we really give up?
They scoured the free agent wire and found some decent players like Rainey and Baker. Chud cut Rainey, but he can play. Baker was better than TRich. Poyer looked pretty good. Better than Bademosi. No, those guys are not going to carry your team, but it is important to improve the bottom of your roster.
This will be a big year for them in terms of free agency and drafting. How about we see how they do before labeling them as The Three Stooges? I think it is total BS to label them as The Three Stooges because they fired a coach who clearly failed. No way was the talent on this year's team worse than Shurmur's team. Passive Pat won one more game than Chud. People are overreacting.
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you still haven't answered the question a lot of people are wondering.
if the next HC, goes 4-12, 5-11 next year, and they axe him too, should we still support them?
you keep saying you'll give this FO 3 years, but why, when they can barely give their hand picked coach 1?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Vers please tell me this. Will all the moves made for the future just what talent did we have this year that we didn't have the year before?
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Hoyer, Baker, Mingo, Campbell and Bess. I wont say growth in existing players because that would imply that 1) Heckert brought in talent or 2) The coaching staff improved the players that were already here and either one of those is not toeing the company line. 
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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you still haven't answered the question a lot of people are wondering.
if the next HC, goes 4-12, 5-11 next year, and they axe him too, should we still support them?
you keep saying you'll give this FO 3 years, but why, when they can barely give their hand picked coach 1?
Let's ask this another way. What if the new coach comes in and does 4-12, 5-11 or God forbid, worse than Chudzinski, will you be calling for the front office to continue on with them? Even if they get him a shiny new QB in the first round in the 2014 draft?
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you still haven't answered the question a lot of people are wondering.
if the next HC, goes 4-12, 5-11 next year, and they axe him too, should we still support them?
you keep saying you'll give this FO 3 years, but why, when they can barely give their hand picked coach 1?
Let's ask this another way. What if the new coach comes in and does 4-12, 5-11 or God forbid, worse than Chudzinski, will you be calling for the front office to continue on with them? Even if they get him a shiny new QB in the first round in the 2014 draft?
Fire them all and bring back Chud... hell we could be the Yankees of the NFL like Steinbrenner and Martin
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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you still haven't answered the question a lot of people are wondering.
if the next HC, goes 4-12, 5-11 next year, and they axe him too, should we still support them?
you keep saying you'll give this FO 3 years, but why, when they can barely give their hand picked coach 1?
Let's ask this another way. What if the new coach comes in and does 4-12, 5-11 or God forbid, worse than Chudzinski, will you be calling for the front office to continue on with them? Even if they get him a shiny new QB in the first round in the 2014 draft?
i would keep the coach. just like i would've kept chud.
remember, the fans didn't set this standard, anarch, the FO did.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Oh I think he cares. I think he'd love to be thought of in the same way the Rooney family is thought of in Pittsburgh. Let's face it, they don't always make popular decisions, but for the most part, the result is mostly positive.
Maybe you're right but I wouldn't wager anything on it. I'm quite sure that he doesn't care what any fans think. He knows, if he puts a quality product on the field, the fans will be there to support him. He doesn't care what the fans think of the decisions he makes. He's got more riding on the decisions than you or I think.
Are you saying that he doesn't want to be thought of in a positive light? I'd wager that he does indeed want to be thought of in a positive way. Who wouldn't. You would lose if you bet against that one.
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Jimmy knows that and probably wants that to be the case with him.
You speak about it like he views you as a peer of his. You aren't. The Rooneys are, but you aren't. I'm sure he cares more about what the Rooneys think of him than what fans think of him.
Thanks for clearing that up,, I was having visions of me being one of his peers  That was one of the lamest attempts at bashing me that I think I've ever seen. wow man, just wow. I guess you feel as if you put me in my place..
He may want the Rooneys to think well of him, in fact I'd bet on that. But as far as who he wants to feel good about him more, it's the fans that pay the bills, not the Rooneys.
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Now, does he care enough to listen to you or me or Mutt, probably not really. If the three of us stood before him and told him what he should do, I suspect he'd be a gentleman, listen, nod his head and then do what he and Banner think is the right thing to do.
He might listen to any of the fans politely and if he found any of our arguments compelling, he might actually consider them, especially if it is something that he hasn't heard before. But if he's heard a bunch of the crap on this message board being spewed at him, he'd probably ignore it altogether and walk away without giving anyone a second thought about what they had to say about the Browns.
If you spoke to something about how to improve the stadium experience and make it more enjoyable, he would probably tell you to contact Alec Scheiner or one of his underlings and that it would be considered.
Smart leaders always listen to other opinions. They don't have to agree or act upon them, but listening is a good thing. I'm sure Jimmy knows that. Next time I see him at a Peer Meeting, I'll ask and let you know what he says.
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He knows how to get us on his side, Just win and everything else is not nearly as important.
That's true. Just win. That's what he wants to do and I dare say that he probably knows as much as (probably more) about the evaluations process as anyone posting messages here. Somehow, I don't think that he's anywhere near the mold of Randy Lerner. I suspect that he's more along the lines of Al Lerner than Randy.
agreed
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Let's ask this another way. What if the new coach comes in and does 4-12, 5-11 or God forbid, worse than Chudzinski, will you be calling for the front office to continue on with them? Even if they get him a shiny new QB in the first round in the 2014 draft?
And I believe that's a lot of the issue here.
Nobody gave Chud a "shiny new QB". As far as the O goes, they didn't give him a shiny new anything.
Just speaking for me, that's the part that I find to be baffling. You hire a guy who has never been a HC. He's an offensive minded coach. Then you put your top investments on the D side with little to any upgrade on the O side of the ball.
Was this past season a failure? I believe most fans would say it was to one degree or another. The question is more of who was responsible. And I believe there was enough blame to go around. Chud wasn't given the weapons to work with and it was shown.
We'll never know what Chud could have done here had those same top three investments have been made on the O and we had stayed with the 4-3. We can all speculate, but nobody knows.
What one would have to believe given the evidence, is that Chud should have been able to accomplish much more than he did with the talent, or lack there of depending on your point of view, than he accomplished.
What I believe we very well may see, is this FO address the O this off season. If for example, they sign a couple of FA's and a first round draft pick on the O, I can see how that will play out on this message board.
The new HC may win a few more games with a lot more talent. The we'll be told just how right this FO is. Which would be laughable to see, but expected none the less.
I believe the results of a poor O and a team let down had a lot to do with the QB position, no running game, which has everything to do with the G's, and that was an obstacle that could not have been overcome. Even if we could have gotten a consistent passing game that would have helped us be able to run. But a three QB merry go round sure wasn't on the HC.
Hopefully, everyone including those in this FO will learn and grow over time. It appears they will get that opportunity. Some just wish Chud had been given that same opportunity with some infusion of talent on the O side of the ball before being judged by those who didn't give him that talent.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Fire them all and bring back Chud... hell we could be the Yankees of the NFL like Steinbrenner and Martin
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i would keep the coach. just like i would've kept chud.
remember, the fans didn't set this standard, anarch, the FO did.
Well, should we have kept Crennel? Mangini? Shurmur? It seems we keep reading the same page over and over again. I'd rather turn the page.
Initially, I really didn't like the move of firing Chudzinski. I was as shocked as everyone else. As I think about it, I'm becoming more and more alright with it.
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Are you saying that he doesn't want to be thought of in a positive light? I'd wager that he does indeed want to be thought of in a positive way. Who wouldn't. You would lose if you bet against that one.
I don't think he's losing any sleep over it. I think that he only wants to put an winning team and an exciting product on the field. If he does that, everything else will work it's way out.
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Thanks for clearing that up,, I was having visions of me being one of his peers That was one of the lamest attempts at bashing me that I think I've ever seen. wow man, just wow. I guess you feel as if you put me in my place.
That you took it as an attempt to of bashing you makes me laugh. I wasn't trying to bash you. Just stating my opinion about how much Haslam thinks about you or your opinion.
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He may want the Rooneys to think well of him, in fact I'd bet on that. But as far as who he wants to feel good about him more, it's the fans that pay the bills, not the Rooneys.
True, but the Rooney's can actually relate to being wealthy and NFL owners. You can't.
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Smart leaders always listen to other opinions. They don't have to agree or act upon them, but listening is a good thing. I'm sure Jimmy knows that. Next time I see him at a Peer Meeting, I'll ask and let you know what he says.
True, but smart leaders know WHO to listen to.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Report: Browns HC Rob
Chudzinski’s Future In Doubt
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