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So you believe the Rooney's advice would be to fire the HC after one season?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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As I think about it, I'm becoming more and more alright with it.
Because you have no other choice. 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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lol But on a serious note, I am becoming more alright with it too. Too many games where we broke down and choked in some various fashion(s) and too many "should-have" won games. Did I think Chud was a bust? No. But do I think more progress and improvement could have occurred? Yes. We have more pro bowlers than wins. We have more All-Pro players than wins. At many games, we looked completely unprepared. The Cinci game after the bye-week is a very prime example. Chud should have never played Weeden, at all and spare me the "we didn't know what we had in him" as you had film of all last season, a full off-season and etc. He should have benched Greg Little. He should have denoted Bess to the lowest spectrum of the roster and promoted Tyms/Cooper/anyone to replace these struggling WRs (or at least Little.) Reminds me of Romeo Crennel, just too nice and too much of a player coach to do the "right thing" or the "necessary thing". I hate to use Rex Ryan as an example, but this dude has love from his players and he lays down the whip when needed. Playing like crap in NY? You'll get benched. Media asked you a question, it is told as-is. No "oh we have a lot of faith in so-n-so and trust him to bounce back". Well, when you keep saying a guy is going to bounce back and doesn't and you're the boss pretty much, you for sure aren't helping yourself by any standards. Clearly the front office didn't see leadership and heck, if that sort of thing wasn't there in the first year - there is minimal to no evidence to suggest it would change the next year. All JMO, but I can almost bet Chud won't be getting any phone calls about coaching vacancies... and maybe that holds true for the his complete duration of being in the NFL.
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i would keep the coach. just like i would've kept chud.
remember, the fans didn't set this standard, anarch, the FO did.
Well, should we have kept Crennel? Mangini? Shurmur? It seems we keep reading the same page over and over again. I'd rather turn the page.
Initially, I really didn't like the move of firing Chudzinski. I was as shocked as everyone else. As I think about it, I'm becoming more and more alright with it.
I'm not a fan of the firing, although I'm sure some of that has to do with the disappointment of thinking that with JH we were done with this firing coaches crap. I thought he was going to come in. Pick his guy, and that would be it. He'd get 4 years to turn this thing around.
I can see both sides. Chud only got a year, and had some of the worst QB play we've ever seen. It has to at least somewhat bother you that he could have been a good coach with a real QB.
On the flip side, how many games did we blow this year? Guys not making plays in crunch time. Haden getting beat against Jax, Bess dropping a punt and a 4th down pass in KC, Weeden not being able to make big plays in the 4th quarter of Miami, Baltimore, Detroit, etc...
The team did not get better as the season progressed. Individually, we just didn't see it.
The total team meltdowns were probably the capper. The Cincinnati game, the Bears game, and most especially, the Patriots game. Yeah, I can see that side too.
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I agree with everything you said except for the Weeden thing. I too am slowly coming around, but, like most, it depends on who we get.
If Weeden wasn't supposed to be starting, then we should've made a real move to get someone else. Jason Campbell and Brian Hoyer says that you want to roll with Weeden and see what happens, but have a backup plan. Remember, we're talking about "the consensus" here. If they wanted to not play Weeden, they should've got someone that was obviously better (and don't say Hoyer, because hindsight is 20/20).
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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I agree with everything you said except for the Weeden thing. I too am slowly coming around, but, like most, it depends on who we get.
If Weeden wasn't supposed to be starting, then we should've made a real move to get someone else. Jason Campbell and Brian Hoyer says that you want to roll with Weeden and see what happens, but have a backup plan. Remember, we're talking about "the consensus" here. If they wanted to not play Weeden, they should've got someone that was obviously better (and don't say Hoyer, because hindsight is 20/20).
Yeah, but good QB's don't just go up in free agency.
You could have traded for Alex Smith, but that's about it, and I'm not sure Alex Smith would have been good here. He's been good in KC because of their good run game. We don't have one to speak of.
From what the beat reporters say, and we have to go by that, because we don't get to see it, they all say Weeden looks unbelievable in practice. When it's for real, and a pass rush exists, he goes into his shell. He's not an NFL QB and I think they found that out when they stuck Hoyer in there, and Hoyer looked competent.
We had one touchdown through 2 games, and it was in the two minute drill before halftime against Miami. Baltimore and Miami were playoff contending teams, but in a down year for the AFC. You have to do better than that. Those 2 games are on Weeden. I can't fault Chud for those.
I have to fault Chud for the Cincinnati game, the Bears game, and the New England fiasco (even if the Refs gave New England the winning TD). I'm not saying this is directly his fault, because players play the game, but when that stuff happens multiple times, the head coach is going to get the finger pointed at him.
I think even more than a coach, this team needs to look in the mirror. They need to stop talking about turning this around, and how they are tired of losing, and just go out and do it. They want to talk the talk, but they don't want to walk it. They're the furthest thing from being mentally tough. I have a feeling those guys have left the field multiples thinking they hadn't given it everything they could have. That's not on the coach. It's not his job to motivate you. This isn't high school football, you're being paid.
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Just speaking for me, that's the part that I find to be baffling. You hire a guy who has never been a HC. He's an offensive minded coach. Then you put your top investments on the D side with little to any upgrade on the O side of the ball.
That's part of what gets me about his firing. But I just thought of something. Kelly appears to have been the target for Banner and Haslam, they don't get him and he goes to Philly and ends the season with a wildcard berth. But he started out with the same record as us.
Then his QB goes down and in steps Nick Foles and bam, wins just started to add up.
The same thing kinda happened here with Hoyer. You have to ask yourself, if Hoyer doesn't go down and he keeps playing like he did in those games he started, are we in the playoffs like Philly?
I know, lots of ifs and buts.. But I just wondered about that.
In either case, I don't know if we would have made the playoffs, but I think we'd have done better than 4 wins.. just a guess of course.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Are you saying that he doesn't want to be thought of in a positive light? I'd wager that he does indeed want to be thought of in a positive way. Who wouldn't. You would lose if you bet against that one.
I don't think he's losing any sleep over it. I think that he only wants to put an winning team and an exciting product on the field. If he does that, everything else will work it's way out.
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Thanks for clearing that up,, I was having visions of me being one of his peers  That was one of the lamest attempts at bashing me that I think I've ever seen. wow man, just wow. I guess you feel as if you put me in my place.
That you took it as an attempt to of bashing you makes me laugh. I wasn't trying to bash you. Just stating my opinion about how much Haslam thinks about you or your opinion.
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He may want the Rooneys to think well of him, in fact I'd bet on that. But as far as who he wants to feel good about him more, it's the fans that pay the bills, not the Rooneys.
True, but the Rooney's can actually relate to being wealthy and NFL owners. You can't.
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Smart leaders always listen to other opinions. They don't have to agree or act upon them, but listening is a good thing. I'm sure Jimmy knows that. Next time I see him at a Peer Meeting, I'll ask and let you know what he says.
True, but smart leaders know WHO to listen to.
Oh Brother, talking to you is like talking to a brick wall
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Agreed Daman. I think we are at the very least a 7-8 win team with Hoyer at QB.
I I think this team made a big mistake firing Chud after only 1 year. Those blaming Chud for this year's recard and so called "lack of improvement" are just as clueless as this Front Office has shown so far.
Chud did the best anyone could do with what he had....playing 3 different QB's, it was just a mess....Bill Walsh couldn't win more then 4-5 games last year with our situation, especially at QB.
The defensive breaks downs late are more on the players then anything else...Horton had solid plans in all those games, you look at the film and nearly every 4th quarter collapse we had was due to players being out of position and not being in their correct zone, poor tackling, and taking poor angles...that's on the players plain and simple...a coach can lay out a solid game plan, and coach it to the players, but its up to the players to get it done, and they didn't....but lets just fire the coach because...well why not?! (this rant isn't directed at your Daman)
Speaking of improvements.....lets see here
did Chud and Turner not improve Josh Gordon? leading him to leading the league in receiving?
How about Jordan Cameron...no one outside of Cleveland even knew who this kid was until this year thanks to Chud and Turner....
Did I mention Chud and Turner improved Gordon and Camereon all while having to use 3 different QB?
How about Joe Haden? He finally gets national recognition thanks to Chud and Horton
there was a lot of improvements on this team from last year to this year....we had a really bright future moving forward with Chud and staff....had this FO not knee jerked and allowed Chud and Norv to get a QB and actually fix the running game (all doable in an offseason mind you) this team would be headed to playoffs next year.
Sadly, in typical Cleveland fashion the FO knee jerks and pulls the rugs out from under something special...your never going to grow a tree if you keep digging up the seeds every other month and replanting them....
I really hope this FO picks someone and actually gives them 4-5 years to actually do something...im so tired of starting over every year just for the sake of starting over...its getting old....
I trusted this front office early on, but now so far, they have shown me they are no different then the previous regimes...the ball is in their court now...its up to them to regain the fans trusts by actually sticking with whomever they hire for a change and allowing the seeds they plant to actually grow and come to harvest.
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In either case, I don't know if we would have made the playoffs, but I think we'd have done better than 4 wins.. just a guess of course.
That's kind of my guess as well. I'm not sure if we get to the playoffs but we would have looked better, won more games... best of all we would have a better feeling for what we had in Hoyer going into next season.
yebat' Putin
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I agree with everything you said.
My point was simply that 1+1 doesn't equal 2 in this situation. You have "the consensus" making the decision to roll with the QBs that we did, but, surprise surprise, all of them get injured and/or stink up the joint. Lack of improvement at the QB position, but what was the expectation? Lack of improvement at the RB position, but what was expected there after they got rid of TRich and replaced him with the guys we had? Say what you want about TRich, but he was a threat, and miles ahead of the other guys we trotted out there, with a possible exception of Baker. And you could go on and on like this for many other positions on the team.
If you take all the information at face value, it just doesn't add up. The mental toughness of the team argument is valid, but I don't think it justifies firing a rookie HC in his first year.
I think this all points to something bigger that was going on behind the scenes. Maybe not as salacious as whatever happened to Kokinis, but something along those lines. Vers and a couple other posters mentioned this as a possibility, and I think it's the only thing that makes sense.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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I agree with everything you said.
My point was simply that 1+1 doesn't equal 2 in this situation. You have "the consensus" making the decision to roll with the QBs that we did, but, surprise surprise, all of them get injured and/or stink up the joint. Lack of improvement at the QB position, but what was the expectation? Lack of improvement at the RB position, but what was expected there after they got rid of TRich and replaced him with the guys we had? Say what you want about TRich, but he was a threat, and miles ahead of the other guys we trotted out there, with a possible exception of Baker. And you could go on and on like this for many other positions on the team.
If you take all the information at face value, it just doesn't add up. The mental toughness of the team argument is valid, but I don't think it justifies firing a rookie HC in his first year.
I think this all points to something bigger that was going on behind the scenes. Maybe not as salacious as whatever happened to Kokinis, but something along those lines. Vers and a couple other posters mentioned this as a possibility, and I think it's the only thing that makes sense.
I don't really know if there is anything that justifies firing a coach in his first year.
I just feel like I'm more upset not because I like Chud (which I do, I believe in his schemes), but because I thought we were finally past firing coaches early.
I will always come back to this organization needing a big boost at QB. It buys everybody time. From the owner on down.
We'll probably keep firing coaches every couple years if we don't get someone good at QB. That's not to say we don't have other needs, because we have many, but QB will solve some of them, on top of getting this team out of the gutter.
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If Weeden wasn't supposed to be starting, then we should've made a real move to get someone else. Jason Campbell and Brian Hoyer says that you want to roll with Weeden and see what happens, but have a backup plan. Remember, we're talking about "the consensus" here. If they wanted to not play Weeden, they should've got someone that was obviously better (and don't say Hoyer, because hindsight is 20/20).
Kind of hard to retort this. But, just b/c a class-signing like Alex Smith or some vet QB other than Campbell didn't occur, doesn't mean it's "ride it out with whoever" then. We have to take into effect the full offseason. I find it extremely hard to fathom that Weeden outplayed Hoyer at the start of camp. I mean in all honestly, I just can't see it as being true. Find it hard he outplayed Jason even and we're talking about coaches who live, judge and see this stuff daily, especially Norv.
It was like a mind was made to play Brandon and there was nothing, other than a few flipper INTs, to change that. I doubt Banner/Haslam forced Chud to play Brandon on a trail-and-see bases.
But to side along with what you said, who knows how Weeden would have responded in Norv's system which is night-n-day different from Pat's. It does seem they made the signings as cushion/backup. So it's hard to say someone was 100% right, or 100% wrong by playing Brandon. I am sure if Chud had magical glasses to see into the future, Brandon would have been third string QB since minute one. But even at this case, Weeden was still extended a far too generous opportunity. IMO, he didn't do enough last year to warrant any type of "yeah we are going to roll with him for sure" thought patterns. Which was the case cause he was granted first team reps from day one with Chud.
It's like push-n-pull argument.  noone really right or wrong on the topic at hand
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That's part of what gets me about his firing. But I just thought of something. Kelly appears to have been the target for Banner and Haslam, they don't get him and he goes to Philly and ends the season with a wildcard berth. But he started out with the same record as us.
Then his QB goes down and in steps Nick Foles and bam, wins just started to add up.
The same thing kinda happened here with Hoyer. You have to ask yourself, if Hoyer doesn't go down and he keeps playing like he did in those games he started, are we in the playoffs like Philly?
Yes the emergence of Foles who ended up with the best regular season QBR rating in the league was certainly a shot in the arm for Kelly. When you combine that with having Shady McCoy as both a rushing and passing weapon, it sealed the deal.
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In either case, I don't know if we would have made the playoffs, but I think we'd have done better than 4 wins.. just a guess of course.
I believe if Hoyer had stayed healthy and played to that same level, we would have won more games. And people can disagree, the team seemed more energized when he was playing QB.
We still wouldn't have been as complete of an O as Philly is with McCoy. He adds another demension to the O in Philly we simply didn't have with or without Hoyer continuing to produce.
Kelly knew Philly had the weapons he needed far more than the Browns did .Sure, Foles was a question mark but Vick was a much better fit to run his O than Weeden or Campbell. I really don't believe for a second that Kelly would have faired much if any better than Chud did here.
I do believe since Kelly was their first choice, they would likely have been a little more patient with him though. At least one would hope.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Kelly knew Philly had the weapons he needed far more than the Browns did .Sure, Foles was a question mark but Vick was a much better fit to run his O than Weeden or Campbell. I really don't believe for a second that Kelly would have faired much if any better than Chud did here.
I think we see things pretty much the same way.
Of course, when we were trying to hire Kelly, our QB's were Weeden, McCoy and someone else who's name escapes me at the moment.
It's so hard to tell, maybe Kelly would have found a way to make TRich a better back. Doubtful, but possible. Him with Hoyer, who knows?
I just can't get past the raw deal that Chud got.
I've always (and you all know this) been a glass half full kinda guy. I've always kept a positive attitude about the upcoming season.
Honestly, I think for the very first time, I can't find a silver lining. It's killing me. I love silver linings LOL
It took a moment to reflect, But I understood Hoyer jumping over Campbell. We saw the proof.
It took more reflection to understand the TRich trade, but now it looks like genius.
But this firing of Chud and basically his staff after they committed to building a long term and stable team, boy that just chaps my butt.
They (the FO and ownership) is going to have a tough time convincing me of anything going forward.
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Of course, when we were trying to hire Kelly, our QB's were Wßeden, McCoy and someone else who's name escapes me at the moment.
Thad lewis would be who escaped your memory... you know " go root for Buffalo " is where he ended up
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I was more shocked than outraged. I thought it was stupid and knee jerk reaction from an organizational point of view, but not necessarily unwarranted. I posted soon after the firing that I thought Horton's D was unimpressive and crumbled the second half of the season, and that Norv's O was uninspired and ineffective. All of that falls under the purview of the HC and should have been addressed during game planning.
Granted the FO bears much of the responsibility for the failings of the team this year with their many manipulations of the roster, their refusal or inability to find a RB, their only average off season, their unwillingness to consider more qualified coaching candidates, and their willingness to settle for their third or forth choice when they did hire a coach.
Taking all of that into account, we're here now and we have no choice but to move on, and can only hope that they hire the right coach, put together a successful draft, find a franchise QB, have a successful FA period, and get their collective $#!% together. Not much to ask for, is it?
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I was more shocked than outraged. I thought it was stupid and knee jerk reaction from an organizational point of view,
That was my reaction.. pretty much like my reaction to the trading of Trent... Once the shock wore off and you really started thinking about it... it wasn't as silly as it first seemed.
yebat' Putin
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Kelly knew Philly had the weapons he needed far more than the Browns did
Here's a little read from Kelly...
The maiden NFL voyage of Chip Kelly was a success.
Kelly might be reticent to say as much so soon after the Philadelphia Eagles were bounced out of the first round of the NFL playoffs. But the Eagles went from 4-12 to 10-6, proof the coach's principles could translate on the next level.
On Monday, Kelly acknowledged he wasn't sure his approach would work when he took the Eagles job last January.
"I wasn't confident," Kelly said, via ESPN.com. "I had a system and a plan that we were going to go in, but I didn't know what the outcome was going to be until it was all finished. But I think we played sound fundamental football, and I think that's what we preach on a daily basis to our players.
"I think it's still a game of 11-on-11, and I think a lot of things we do schematically match up 11-on-11 and it's a fundamental game and I think that's what our coaches teach."
Keep an eye on the Eagles this offseason. Kelly said his offense is built around the personnel, and he has a full offseason to cultivate a roster that best fits what he likes to do. Nick Foles is The Man in Philadelphia, but don't be surprised if Kelly makes significant changes around his franchise quarterback.
Philly's offense might have a much different look by the next time we see it.
link
I just wonder what system Chud was trying to inspire and just how much of a plan he had... And his ability to teach it to the rest of the team
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I agree with what he said. In saying that, I also feel it's fair to say he chose the team that best fit what he wanted to run going into it.
While it isn't exactly what he ran at Oregon, it's eerily similar. I certainly don't blame the man. If I have a choice, I'm going to take the job I feel gives me the best chance to succeed, with a team of talent best suited to run the system I believe will be best.
If his only choice would have been a HC in Cleveland, he would have had to drastically have changed that system given what he had to work with here to have had any chance to succeed.
For all we know, it could be a lack of commitment to get him the talent he wanted in last years draft and FA signing period that swayed his decision. We'll never know.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I'm glad you took the time to respond. This was a good post to read... as was your follow-up. Both do a great job of explaining why you view this bunch as you do. These are the kinds of posts I look forward to reading. They make me think outside of where my mind lives. It's what keeps me coming back to this place. I'm also glad I asked in the public forum, and not in a PM... because I got to read DC's thoughts on sticking around, too. They added a nice balance to what you were saying. Together, those posts are giving me a reason to look again at our situation and the folks who will navigate it. I'm not 'won over' by any means... but I am a bit happier with my choice of committing through the 2014 season- and hopefully with as open a mind as I can muster. For the record, I really haven't been on a hate campaign regarding these guys. To be honest, I only knew of them what was written in the background stories and op-eds that accompanied their entrance into Browns World. Jimmy Haslam was off my radar until he bought the team from Randy. Banner was some guy from Philly, and Lombardi was this talking head on TV that had a spotty pro record and 5 years out of The Game. So... I was skeptical- mainly because I was seeing 3 Major Dudes who were all trying on their respective hats for the first time. "Rookie Time" I thought... and was not optimistic about what they might do. Like I said in an earlier post- I liked some of what I saw, early on. I thought ChudNorvRay was a combo that might make some things happen, given enough time and resources. I was cool with the choice to go D last offseason. I was OK with the 'evaluation year' concept, and even embraced it as the smartest way to go. Even after the games played out as they did, I wanted to see what ChudNorvRay could do with another offseason and improved weapons. Then... the bombshell. "Mr Consistency" (A.K.A.: Clemdawg) was nut-punched. Again. In the same way he'd been punk'd so many, many (sigh- many) times before. I won't lie to you, I felt totally betrayed when I heard the news. And it's not because I was some Chud fanboy or Walrus homer... it was because I could see yet another total reset.... after we'd been promised the opposite. One. More. Time. _______________________ I'm still here. I made the commitment to 2014, and I'm sticking to it. It's just how I was raised. Make a promise/keep a promise. I'm not so miserable that I can't give another year to this team. Hell, I've given them my support for more than a half-century... what's one more year?  I hope this current administration understands that there is more at stake than just hitting on a few picks. I hope they understand that fans like me will hang on for 'yet another year,' if they can make sense of the decisions they see... but won't 'hang on' forever. Browns fans have been the 'Golden Goose' for businessmen since Art Modell bought ownership rights in 1961. That goose in in real danger of flying the coop if this current group doesn't clock a bunch of great decisions, and nail down a winning formula. On this board alone, there's me and a host of folks who are losing faith. One poster recently admitted that he's encouraging his kids to support other teams. I like what you wrote. It's all common sense, and bodes well for this team- on paper. I hope it translates to a productive offseason and a better product on the field. That said, they're way behind the rest of the division in terms of prep, because the don't even have a coaching staff yet... and that's on them. Lots to do between now and TC. I really hope they're up to the task. .02
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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J/C
This is a completely ridiculous thing I believe but I'll say it anyways.
I really hope they hire a coach who is in shape. I hate watching the highest level of professional athletics coached by fat slobs. Granted Banner and Lombardi are the opposite of photogenic so that would need some work, but they never touch the field. When it comes to properly relating to a bunch of highly tuned athletes I have to think being even marginally in command of your physical body has some value.
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Would be nice to have someone come in here and give this team an Identity....
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Legend
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Quote:
J/C
This is a completely ridiculous thing I believe but I'll say it anyways.
I really hope they hire a coach who is in shape. I hate watching the highest level of professional athletics coached by fat slobs. Granted Banner and Lombardi are the opposite of photogenic so that would need some work, but they never touch the field. When it comes to properly relating to a bunch of highly tuned athletes I have to think being even marginally in command of your physical body has some value.
So that's a no on Mark Mangino?
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
J/C
This is a completely ridiculous thing I believe but I'll say it anyways.
I really hope they hire a coach who is in shape. I hate watching the highest level of professional athletics coached by fat slobs. Granted Banner and Lombardi are the opposite of photogenic so that would need some work, but they never touch the field. When it comes to properly relating to a bunch of highly tuned athletes I have to think being even marginally in command of your physical body has some value.
So that's a no on Mark Mangino?
Iowa State just snatched him up and you just don't leave Ames for the NFL.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
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J/C
This is a completely ridiculous thing I believe but I'll say it anyways.
I really hope they hire a coach who is in shape. I hate watching the highest level of professional athletics coached by fat slobs. Granted Banner and Lombardi are the opposite of photogenic so that would need some work, but they never touch the field. When it comes to properly relating to a bunch of highly tuned athletes I have to think being even marginally in command of your physical body has some value.
So that's a no on Mark Mangino?
Holy crap. That guy looks like Mark Dantonio ate Eric Mangini....and then had Holmgren for dessert.
Last edited by Kingcob; 01/07/14 06:28 PM.
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Legend
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While it isn't exactly what he ran at Oregon, it's eerily similar. I certainly don't blame the man. If I have a choice, I'm going to take the job I feel gives me the best chance to succeed, with a team of talent best suited to run the system I believe will be best.
I agree and I don't begrudge him choosing Philly.. in fact I was sort of glad he did because I didn't want the Browns to be his experimental playground...... With that said, I think he got completely lucky when 3rd round pick Nick Foles stepped in for an injured Vick and played almost flawlessly... no way did he see that coming any more than we saw Brian Hoyer coming... heck at the beginning of the season, when they hired Kelly, the conversation was about trading Foles because he was going to be a fish out of water running the system Kelly wanted to run..
So I will give him credit for getting them to the playoffs, but I think he got quite lucky... when a 3rd round pick comes in for his second season after starting just 6 games (very pedestrian numbers by the way) and posts a 120 QBR and only throws 2 INTs in 320 attempts... yea, there is some luck in walking into that.
yebat' Putin
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guys guys guys.
lets try to be optimistic this season coming up.
we have 5 pro bowlers, and 1 alternate.
my homerism is back at 100 percent after my wife just cooked quesadillas. lets do this.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Normally that statement would be true,but these are not normal times.He just left the garden city of Youngstown and the effervescent personality of Coach Wolford for Ames.So lets not close the book on Mangino just yet.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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#gmstrong
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Clem, I feel your pain and I know you aren't one of the guys being hateful. You are simply disappointed. Extremely disappointed.
I was, too. I am getting over it, much like DC is. It's kinda like the TRich trade. The initial shock was very depressing, but once you really start to think about it, it's not all that bad.
Please don't misinterpret that to mean I believe that translates into success. They screwed up. They either fired the guy too early or they hired the wrong guy. They made a mistake. I am leaning towards they hired the wrong guy and they didn't compound the problem by keeping him around.
I'm glad you are sticking it out. I was serious earlier when I said that I absolutely enjoy reading your posts. I love guys who spin a different perspective on things. I love your wit. I love your command of the English language and the level-headed nature of your posts.
Man, we are a loyal bunch. I hope this team wins just to finally give this loyal fan base some joy. I think this is what Banner and some of the other guys in the FO who came here last year were talking about. Winning is great, but winning in Cleveland would be unbelievable. They know they would be heroes forever. Can you imagine if a regime finally provided us w/a winner? It is my wish that guys like you get to see that dream come true.
We have a chance here. If we secure a bright coach and snag a franchise qb this year---and we are in position to just that---we can be well on our way to being a successful franchise. This off season is so huge.
I've been thinking a lot about this. Teddy is my favorite qb in this draft, but I am beginning to believe that Johnny Manziel might be our best bet. This team needs a culture change. The players have accepted losing. The games didn't matter enough for them last year. This has to change. And Johnny Football has that innate and unique ability to change the environment. It is a gift and not many have it. This guy does have it. Pair him w/a motivational coach who is an innovator........and you have just trapped magic in a bottle.
It's right there for us. Now, all they have to do is get it done.
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I won't lie to you, I felt totally betrayed when I heard the news. And it's not because I was some Chud fanboy or Walrus homer... it was because I could see yet another total reset.... after we'd been promised the opposite.
One. More. Time.
Clem, that's just how I feel/felt. It really had nothing to do with me being a huge Chud fan by any means. I took as more of an indictment on the FO and their decision making capabilities.
To me it was…"Same old Browns" after I had such high initial hope when Haslem introduced himself as the new owner. He seemed like a guy full of energy and promise compared to what we had all experienced during the Lerner reign. Now, it seems to me we're watching the same movie again. Hope they prove me wrong, I'm not overly confident however.
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This could be a tipping point for this franchise.
Especially when you read everything that's been written not only this board, but by the local media...and to a much lesser extent (cuz they don't care about us) the major media.
If they make a mistake this time...and things don't look to improve...and relatively quickly...we may see some really strong apathy from this fanbase. For the first time since maybe ever...you may see this team experience blackouts, and/or the threat of blackouts.
I myself was very excited to go to games next year. I made it to two this year, and was excited to try to get to 2 or 3 next year...but, that's taken a big back seat...I'm to a point where I'm not spending that time and money to go see something not worth my time. Yea tailgating is fun, but the money spent to go inside and watch the game...taking up that whole Sunday...to drive home tired feeling like I just need sleep, and to struggle through the next couple days because I woke up at 430a to get there by 730-8 to make breakfast and have drinks before the game...and then go inside and watch probably a poor result...Then not get home til 7-8p and that's it for my day...then wake up exhausted the next two days...
Na...
If they don't get it right this time. This fanbase is going to disappear from the stadium on Sundays very quickly.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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So you believe the Rooney's advice would be to fire the HC after one season?
No, but remember that when Chudzinski was hired, he was 'highly talked about' by sources within the league.
Considering that he was a minority owner in the Stoolers before purchasing the Browns, Haslam probably actually asked Putzburgh ownership and front office personnel about their thoughts about Chudzinski.
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As I think about it, I'm becoming more and more alright with it.
Because you have no other choice.
Not really. I could bitch and moan about it. I was rather ambivalent about it. I really didn't care one way or the other since the first moment that I heard/read about it.
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Of course, when we were trying to hire Kelly, our QB's were Weeden, McCoy and someone else who's name escapes me at the moment.
Thad lewis would be who escaped your memory... you know " go root for Buffalo " is where he ended up
Ahh yes,, Thad Lewis... thanks
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I think Thad played as well as Hoyer did. With less to work with in Buffalo.
Wish we had kept him.
Hindsight obviously..
But I was a fan of his play in the Pitt game last last year...
Oh well...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Legend
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Would be nice to have someone come in here and give this team an Identity....
Which begs to question.
Can a coach without talent bring in an "identity"?
Given we had no run game and went through three QB's, I guess the question is, how would any HC have established an identity for this team?
Much like I discussed that Kelly had the players, and some luck with Foles to run his system, now they have an identity. Shady at RB and Foles at QB played a huge part in that.
Now if you give a HC the players to help him execute his system, then an identity can be established. But IMO, you can't have one without the other.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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You can't have an identity without good QB play, and that includes having a guy smart enough not to get hurt.
We can't even keep a guy up for 16 games.
I thought when Harbaugh took over SF he gave that team a much tougher, grittier identity, he also got Alex Smith to play to his potential, which isn't Brady or Manning or anything, but obviously good enough to go far in the playoffs.
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Legend
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You can't have an identity without good QB play, and that includes having a guy smart enough not to get hurt.
Which is why I believe that those that have tried to indicate that a HC can change the culture would be incorrect.
I believe that having a QB who can slide and has the smarts to know when to use that ability is a positive. But with dirty hits and freak plays, I don't believe there's a sure fire way you can be certain that a QB won't be hurt.
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I thought when Harbaugh took over SF he gave that team a much tougher, grittier identity, he also got Alex Smith to play to his potential, which isn't Brady or Manning or anything, but obviously good enough to go far in the playoffs.
Which is what I believe we saw with Chud when Hoyer started. Not saying Hoyer would be playing that way for the long term, but while he was playing to a decent level, I believe the team played with a lot more fire and intensity.
I just believe we saw the team playing more intense. Which I believe was something that could have been built upon. We'll never know what Chud could have done had he been given the weapons to work with.
I did like the glimpse I saw with Hoyer at QB though and it makes me wonder if Hoyer had remained healthy and productive, how much differently the outcome would have been.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Report: Browns HC Rob
Chudzinski’s Future In Doubt
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