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damnit LB you just ruined my eyes with that blue font.
I didn't even bother reading it because it was so hard on the eyes. I made it through the 1st sentence of the 1st paragraph and thought to myself, "screw it, this hurts".
Really guys? Maybe it's cause I'm a programmer and stare at code on four monitors daily - but I fixed it for your old people's eyes. Haha. =p
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The balance also includes the fact that the front office hamstrung the team and coach by trading away a couple of mid round draft choices, who may have made and impact, and their first round draft choice running back from a year ago... leaving the team without adequate depth to challenge in the latter quarters of games... and yes we all know about the QB play.
Right now we have perception, and the reality will only be revealed over time. We can make a case for or against Chud, but to not make a similar case for or against the front office is silliness.
What you call taking a lot of balls can also be characterized as being a spoiled billionaire brat, or a yes man.
There are two side to every argument, Reality is not always absolute in one direction or another.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
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The part you quoted in the beginning of your response was from someone else, which I in turn quoted.
At this point to me, it's more about the combination of hiring and firing Chud in less than one calendar year.
It brings into question for me, their ability to find the right people to coach the team. That of course is based on a small sample size of their first hire. If they totally screwed the pooch in the hiring of the previous coaching staff, that isn't a good sign.
If they acted pre-maturely in firing him, that isn't a good sign. So to me, no matter which side of the coin you look at, I don't see anything positive in that. The only thing I've really seen anyone state to try to absolve the issue is something like this..... "Well, at least they saw their mistake and are trying to correct it."
That's all fine and well, but what does that say in their evaluation and hiring of a competent coaching staff?
I'm not saying they can't do it. I'm just saying I do believe that it's unfair for some to judge those who question the FO on this issue based on what we've seen so far.
Aside from what has been posted, I am a very loyal Browns fan and only want the best for my team. Always have and always will. But after 14 years of seeing what we've seen combined with the "one and done" of the previous coaching staff, I don't feel it's unreasonable for many to be skeptical.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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based off of history, they are one in the same.
how many firings did Lerner and Co. do?
now, we have new ownership, and we've already fired 2 HC.
did anything really change?
Yes. A great deal has changed.
1. The owner actually cares about the team. He bought it and didn't inherit it.
2. The president (Banner) is the one that's actually been in an NFL front office and had success at it.
3. Lombardi has better experience with the game than anyone else in the room, including Banner. He could take over for Banner with his knowledge of contracts and the salary cap. I hope he imparts a good deal into Ray Farmer and promote him from within.
4. I don't think that bringing in Chudzinski was the problem. In my view, bringing in Norv Turner & Ray Horton were the problems. My guess is that it was Norv Turner that was the problem, but it could have been Ray Horton also. If Chudzinski hadn't brought them in, he might still have a job.
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Don't waste your time w/them. Their minds are made up and it's not about debate.......it's about them "proving" themselves right.
I don't think anyone is trying to prove me wrong just to prove themselves 'right'. From what I read of the responses to me, I don't get that perception at all. No harm in people displaying their opinions and using questions and etc to debate.
But twisting words seems to be commonplace around here.
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Your comments on Chud require a presumption as well... that Haslam is a competent owner... and to a lesser extent that Banner and Lombardi are competent as well, and are more than yes men. None of the presumptions have been demonstrated, if fact, the balance tends to lean in the direction that Browns ownership is incompetent.
Go root for the Chargers.
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Your comments on Chud require a presumption as well... that Haslam is a competent owner... and to a lesser extent that Banner and Lombardi are competent as well, and are more than yes men. None of the presumptions have been demonstrated, if fact, the balance tends to lean in the direction that Browns ownership is incompetent.
Go root for the Chargers.
how bout you stop telling people who to root for?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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Your comments on Chud require a presumption as well... that Haslam is a competent owner... and to a lesser extent that Banner and Lombardi are competent as well, and are more than yes men. None of the presumptions have been demonstrated, if fact, the balance tends to lean in the direction that Browns ownership is incompetent.
Go root for the Chargers.
how bout you stop telling people who to root for?
Okay. Bye.
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Your comments on Chud require a presumption as well... that Haslam is a competent owner... and to a lesser extent that Banner and Lombardi are competent as well, and are more than yes men. None of the presumptions have been demonstrated, if fact, the balance tends to lean in the direction that Browns ownership is incompetent.
Go root for the Chargers.
lol... you can do better than that.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
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Go root for the Chargers.
lol... you can do better than that.
I think that you at least got the reference. Swish is 100% clueless.
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jc:
Wow. So much for evolution.
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I don't get this whole impression "Chud busted his butt here" and "Chud did this and Chud did that" as if you guys were walking right next to him, in the meetings, on the field with him, went home with home after a day at work to and spend time with him and watching him working and knew exactly what was going on. You guys have no clue what you're saying, you're assuming. Assuming can make you look either really good, or really bad and in any case - if you don't know something 100% then why are you guys joining the perception of the media who can write bull*hit and publish bull*hit?
Chud busted his ass while he was here and did everything in his power to improve the Browns. He was not given a chance to see it through.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I wouldn't say he didn't do his job.
But he didnt do a very good one.
Regardless of what players he had. He clearly as the HC did not have them prepared as well as they could have been. Because even with the crap QB situation. We still shoukd of won more games than we did.
He was the guy that started Weeden. He was the guy that went back to Weeden.
The Cincy game was lost do to coaching. The NE and Chi games aswell. Detroit made halftime adjustments to us and we never recovered.
That's all on the coaches.
Saying he could of done more is a nice thought. Because it can't be disproven.
But he's gone now. So I don't really care anymore about what he could have done with more. Won't change anything.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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But he's gone now. So I don't really care anymore about what he could have done with more. Won't change anything.
As angry, frustrated, cheated, embarrassed and confused as I felt over the firing after only one season with little help and maybe even decisions to the detriment toward success originated from the FO, the above quote is squarely and exactly where I stand with it.
We still have our team and we have a coaching staff. Moving forward from here is the only logical approach.
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Point blank - Chud got a raw deal for the simple fact there was not one action by the FO in regards to personnel that did not spell we aren't playing for the long term. Because of the youth movement and not a bevy of Veteran 2nd tier FA, we only got two Groves n Owens and both went on the IR we were tooled in most 2nd half as teams took advantage of our weakness and there is nothing you can do Coach wise to counter act it. You got to use the talent you got.
Now can we start all over and do great...sure we can at the most we fell only a year behind as long as we do not lose the players. We are going to go into this season and should do much better than last - mostly due to some additions we will make especially at the QB. Chud is now history...bum deal in my eyes sure thing. Are we screwed now because of it? No but we took a chance cause if these guys cannot get it done all confidence in the FO will be lost.
jmho
Oh n Swish you had strike on against you coming to a Sports message board with a moniker of Swish...not a common word with Macho attitudes...lol 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Chud busted his ass while he was here and did everything in his power to improve the Browns. He was not given a chance to see it through.
I'm sorry, but playing struggling and failing players game after game, after game is not "... doing everything in his power to improve the Browns". He wasn't given a second chance maybe cause he didn't "earn" that second chance. I honestly figured when Weeden got better, he was going to bench Hoyer for Brandon again. When I reflect on the season, that is how I view Chud's decision making in terms of personnel. Thankfully I was wrong and he was wise enough to keep Weeden on the bench until injuries put him back in the starting role, but still... it's sad I even had to question it.
I refuse to hold the hand and sympathize for someone who is just flat out... a softy. No leadership or accountability with that type of mindset. Not what this team needs with it being full of young players. Not what any team needs IMO. You got people like Bess and Little who constantly screw up, but nothing happens in terms of consequences. How does that teach them to better themselves? What does that say to the people who are busting their butts on the lower roster, waiting for their opportunities but kept getting overlooked while watching these people that are supposedly "better" than them as they're higher on roster, constantly fail at doing their job? What, "you can suck with me, not do your job, and I'll still start you and play you anyway?????????????"
Face it, team is better is better off without Chud. I am over him and more I think about the 4-12 season (five all pro, six pro bowls, leading WR that even missed two games, etc etc etc) - I see that "four" wins in the columns and laugh. What team has more all-pro players than wins? The name people give Chud, "Chud the dud" - is very, very fitting through my eyes.
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What team has more all-pro players than wins?
The Chiefs 2 seasons ago. Two wins, six probowlers. You know, the year before they got decent QB play.
Hmmm funny how that works.
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Point blank - Chud got a raw deal for the simple fact there was not one action by the FO in regards to personnel that did not spell we aren't playing for the long term. Because of the youth movement and not a bevy of Veteran 2nd tier FA, we only got two Groves n Owens and both went on the IR we were tooled in most 2nd half as teams took advantage of our weakness and there is nothing you can do Coach wise to counter act it. You got to use the talent you got.
Now can we start all over and do great...sure we can at the most we fell only a year behind as long as we do not lose the players. We are going to go into this season and should do much better than last - mostly due to some additions we will make especially at the QB. Chud is now history...bum deal in my eyes sure thing. Are we screwed now because of it? No but we took a chance cause if these guys cannot get it done all confidence in the FO will be lost.
jmho
Oh n Swish you had strike on against you coming to a Sports message board with a moniker of Swish...not a common word with Macho attitudes...lol
lol i guess, but hey, i don't stroke nobody's ego's. i say what i say and i don't apologize for it. if they get mad, all well.
anyway, my thing is this FO thought they went through a PR nightmare now, if Pettine goes 4-12,5-11, or 3-13, can you imagine the crap storm thats gonna follow, especially from the national media?
lets be honest here, as much as we call them bozo's, they end up being right a hell of a lot more about our team than we do. thats not a reflection of us, thats a reflection of the FO.
i have confidence in Pettine and this staff, but i don't have that with the FO.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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lets be honest here, as much as we call them bozo's, they end up being right a hell of a lot more about our team than we do. thats not a reflection of us, thats a reflection of the FO.
I'm not so sure I agree with that. I'm pretty sure if you just followed Kiper's big board and went after the obvious coaches, you could field a 4 win team. In fact you almost have to try to suck to do worse than that on a consistent basis...
However, that is not really the issue... it's not their job to outperform me, it's their job to outperform other FOs around the league.. and at that they have consistently failed.
yebat' Putin
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well, lets hope they get it right.
Eo says it all the time, winning is cure all.
i would actually like to walk down the street with my jersey on and not get snickers, or talk about my team and not hear "i take the browns to the superbowl all the time".
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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What does that say to the people who are busting their butts on the lower roster, waiting for their opportunities but kept getting overlooked while watching these people that are supposedly "better" than them as they're higher on roster, constantly fail at doing their job? What, "you can suck with me, not do your job, and I'll still start you and play you anyway?????????????"
Just who on the roster didn't get a chance to produce this year?
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Tori Gurley, Josh Cooper, Tyms, McFadden, Poyer and Posey (all the corners could have battled for the struggling Chris Owens, some before he released (like Leon) and some after - just to name a few.
Example, just one game that Cooper played, it would seemed he had more production than what, 75% of the games Greg played last season? This is what I'm talking about. Greg was babied when likely any other teams wouldn't have benched him, they would've released him. Even with his off-field issues, nothing effected the playing time he was granted. This falls on Chud.
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Cooper showed out didn't he?
man...i still can't figure out why this guy has been buried on the bench or on the PS so much.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Steelers bring back Joey Porter as a defensive assistant coach Link
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Greg Little has never had any real off the field issues (He got suspended by the NCAA for taking some money from an Agent, but who really hasn't done that.) I wasn't nearly as impressed with Cooper as everyone else is. He caught a lot of check down passes, big whoop.
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He caught a lot of check down passes, big whoop.
Key word, caught...
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Honestly, I'd have bet money, a lot of money, he'd go right back to his TV role... am I the only kind of shocked here if the reports are true about him going to NE? 
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jc
Reports: Michael Lombardi to join Patriots front office
It seems like all of the fired, former Belichick guys wind up back under his protective wings for a while.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Belichick also recommended Schiano to us... so, I'm just going to go with the idea that he has finally completely lost his mind.
OR, there is no truth to this story and Lombardi just floated it on his own, lol.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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No surprise. Lombardi has done a whole season's worth of scouting for this upcoming draft and free agency. Belichick is smart and adding more information to his evaluations is the right thing to do.
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Belichick also recommended Schiano to us... so, I'm just going to go with the idea that he has finally completely lost his mind.
OR, there is no truth to this story and Lombardi just floated it on his own, lol.
I don't think there's any denying BB's genius, but his coaching staff hasn't exactly lit up the NFL when they leave.
Just because a guy is a genius doesn't mean you hang on his every word.
Personally, my speculation is that he hires a lot of yes men and takes care of his own.
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jc
Reports: Michael Lombardi to join Patriots front office
That organization was running way too smoothly. Must've needed an injection of poison. 
Let's see how long he lasts. Let the countdown begin.
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Lombardi has done a whole season's worth of scouting for this upcoming draft and free agency.
From his couch? 
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Belichick also recommended Schiano to us... so, I'm just going to go with the idea that he has finally completely lost his mind.
OR, there is no truth to this story and Lombardi just floated it on his own, lol.
I don't think there's any denying BB's genius, but his coaching staff hasn't exactly lit up the NFL when they leave.
Just because a guy is a genius doesn't mean you hang on his every word.
Personally, my speculation is that he hires a lot of yes men and takes care of his own.
It is also a very fine line between genius and insanity ... and which side of that line you are on wavers with perspective 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Gurley could,t get off the line of scrimmage, and when he did he couldn't beat anybody when they tried to cover him. Cooper once again got a chance at the end of the year, and he produced again  Tyms never deserved a chance. McFadden looked like crap whenever he was in there. Poyer and Posey got their shots at the end of the year and they showed some potential. Now as for little. He blocked well, he got open a lot, The kid has potential HOWEVER unless he learns to catch he won't be in the NFL long. If he ever learns how to catch the ball he will be a very good number 2 or 3 WR
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Little drives me crazy for one reason.
He works so damn hard. He stays after practices. He works on skills. He blocks like an OL. He fights hard for his teammates. He works his ass off.
He does everything you want, except catch the ball consistently. I bet it drives him crazy too. If he can only get to the point of being a moderately capable receiver, he'll be a very useful player for us. I hope he gets there. He works so hard, he deserves to make it with this team.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Little drives me crazy for one reason.
He works so damn hard. He stays after practices. He works on skills. He blocks like an OL. He fights hard for his teammates. He works his ass off.
He does everything you want, except catch the ball consistently. I bet it drives him crazy too. If he can only get to the point of being a moderately capable receiver, he'll be a very useful player for us. I hope he gets there. He works so hard, he deserves to make it with this team.
Exactly how I feel,, I know the skill and effort are all there, it's like he can't put it all together. Anyone wonder if it's like ADD or something like that?
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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