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I'm beginning to think maybe the front office went off half cocked and now can't find a replacement coach? Beautiful.
Beginning to think? That was my reaction the day it happened.
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So now we have TWO potential candidates who have publicly withdraw their names? That speaks volumes. Of course it was the fan base and local media that caused them to do this. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I was thinking the same thing. If we know who we are going to hire then that person probably has people in mind for his staff.
If the decision has been made my money is on Munchak with Schwartz coming on as the defensive coordinator.
Then wouldn't you think we were going to a 4-3? Has Schwartz ever worked with a 3-4? (I don't know, I'm just asking)
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It boils down to a few things. How badly does this FO want the 3-4? It seems that they want it badly enough that they used their top 3 investments this past off season to make it work. (Bryant, Kruger, Mingo)
So after investing that much, you're left with three choices.
1. Abandon it and look like fools with an entire off season last year invested in a system you turn around and abandon.
2. Find a HC candidate that uses the 3-4.
3. Find a HC willing to let you dictate to him which D will be used.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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If Schwartz comes on as our defensive coordinator I think we will end up with a 4-3 defense (again). Although Schwartz did work under Belichick (3-4) in Cleveland and Marvin Lewis (multiple sets) in Baltimore.
What a huge step back it would be to have drafted and signed an off-season worth of 3-4 players to only switch back one season later. Not to mention converting Winn, Rubin, Taylor, etc. to different positions. I do not see how Kruger or Groves would fit in a 4-3.
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If Schwartz comes on as our defensive coordinator I think we will end up with a 4-3 defense (again). Although Schwartz did work under Belichick (3-4) in Cleveland and Marvin Lewis (multiple sets) in Baltimore.
What a huge step back it would be to have drafted and signed an off-season worth of 3-4 players to only switch back one season later. Not to mention converting Winn, Rubin, Taylor, etc. to different positions. I do not see how Kruger or Groves would fit in a 4-3.
This is just my opinion, but I think the Schwartz boat may have sailed off with McDaniels.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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What's Happened To Quinn?
I Like The Guy And Think He's The Fiery Kind Of Guy We need.
Last edited by 1oldMutt; 01/14/14 05:54 PM.
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Another 4-3 base kind of guy. Least that is what he runs in Seattle.
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If Schwartz comes on as our defensive coordinator I think we will end up with a 4-3 defense (again). Although Schwartz did work under Belichick (3-4) in Cleveland and Marvin Lewis (multiple sets) in Baltimore.
What a huge step back it would be to have drafted and signed an off-season worth of 3-4 players to only switch back one season later. Not to mention converting Winn, Rubin, Taylor, etc. to different positions. I do not see how Kruger or Groves would fit in a 4-3.
You mean the positions they played a little over a year ago?
Kruger will probably be a DE. Him and Sheard would be a nice fit for a wide 9. My biggest concern is Mingo and Bryant. Our core guys proved last year they can play in any scheme while we were all freaking out about it.
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Schwartz is Lombardi's buddy from when Schwartz was in Cleveland during Lombardi's first tenure.
If we already had a 4-3 defense set up I would gladly take Schwartz as our defensive coordinator
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It boils down to a few things. How badly does this FO want the 3-4? It seems that they want it badly enough that they used their top 3 investments this past off season to make it work. (Bryant, Kruger, Mingo)
And I think it would behoove the FO to do what they can to find that match where the 3-4 stays. Like you mentioned, their #1 FA signing and #1 draft pick are almost specific to the 3-4. Not too mention a guy you signed to a 2-yr deal in Groves. Then you are pleasantly surprised with Desmond Bryant's transition to the 3-4 although he can play in the 4-3. Same thing with Phil Taylor.
If in the end the team hires a coaching staff that includes a move to the 4-3, Haslam can easily think to himself that he's wasted money on his two most important acquisitions last year- the two outside pass rushers of Kruger and Mingo.
I'm guessing Haslem is not all that pleased with what is happening right now, and I will assume a scheme change after one year will only add to the pile.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Zimmer And Quinn Are The Last Two On my List.
I Dont Care What D They Run.
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Why can't Krueger play in the 4-3? If he bulks up 10 LBs he easily can. Also lets not act like his production in the 3-4 was out of this world that the switch will devastate us.
Barkevious Mingo on the other hand....
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My biggest concern is Mingo...
Mine too. He would have to bulk up to the point I think he'd lose his speed which is why he was drafted so high.
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Why can't Krueger play in the 4-3? If he bulks up 10 LBs he easily can. Also lets not act like his production in the 3-4 was out of this world that the switch will devastate us.
Barkevious Mingo on the other hand....
Even if your scenario is true, wouldn't that equate to wasting last years first round draft pick?
It seems to me, you either do that, find a HC that uses a 4-3, or find a HC that will let the FO dictate that he runs a 3-4.
Ending up throwing away last years first round draft pick would be yet another blemish on things IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Why can't Krueger play in the 4-3? If he bulks up 10 LBs he easily can. Also lets not act like his production in the 3-4 was out of this world that the switch will devastate us.
Barkevious Mingo on the other hand....
CAN he play in the 4-3? Sure, I guess. I'm not sure he'd be very good at it. And at this point, I'd guess he'd be an OLB and not a pass rushing DE. He'd be severely overpaid IMO (more than he already is) at this point being paid millions to not constantly rush the quarterback anymore.
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 01/14/14 06:11 PM.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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I think Mingo can play end in the 4-3. It would just be stupid to have wasted one year of development.
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Even if the 4-3 is a smaller, speed defense like Indianapolis used to run with Dwight Freeney and such, I do not see Mingo working out well in it without adding at LEAST 20 lbs of muscle - and he'd need to do that without losing any speed or quickness. At only 240lbs, he's small-ish for a LB, much less a DE.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Why can't Krueger play in the 4-3? If he bulks up 10 LBs he easily can. Also lets not act like his production in the 3-4 was out of this world that the switch will devastate us.
Barkevious Mingo on the other hand....
Even if your scenario is true, wouldn't that equate to wasting last years first round draft pick?
It seems to me, you either do that, find a HC that uses a 4-3, or find a HC that will let the FO dictate that he runs a 3-4.
Ending up throwing away last years first round draft pick would be yet another blemish on things IMO
You make Mingo either bulk up or switch to SAM LB. He needs to bulk up regardless of what happens this offseason.
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I think Mingo can play end in the 4-3. It would just be stupid to have wasted one year of development.
It's stupid to hire and fire a coach in 1 year, but it's what has to happen.
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Tony Grossi: Mr Banner, Is The New Coach Any Good?
Joe Banner: Hell No but He Runs The 34!!!
Gimme A Good Coach And We'll Work The Rest Out Later...
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It boils down to a few things. How badly does this FO want the 3-4? It seems that they want it badly enough that they used their top 3 investments this past off season to make it work. (Bryant, Kruger, Mingo)
All three of those guys played in a 4-3 before coming to Cleveland. Baltimore had a weird hybrid defense that looked more like a 4-3 than a 3-4.
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Well, for what it is worth, so will Tebow . . . 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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My biggest concern is Mingo...
Mine too. He would have to bulk up to the point I think he'd lose his speed which is why he was drafted so high.
MIngo would be an awesome 4-3 OLB - JMO
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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From what I've read about the amount of time he puts into planning and preparation, I think he's going to go into coaching. I don't know that he'll be able to just stop cold turkey.
I would think Peyton wants to be a coach.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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I just read about Jim Caldwell and now want nothing to do with Adam Gase. Has a team just never hired a head coach, I think that is the best option at this point.
Not sure of the connection. Why would reading about Caldwell make you want nothing to do with Gase?
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Caldwell got hired by the Colts originally because Peyton Manning was successful. He ended up being horrible. Gase has come to prominence with Manning as his QB.
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boy...the FO really screwed the pooch on this one.
they seem to be all in on gase...
so what if he says he doesn't want the job and stays at Denver?
the crap storm following would be....entertaining as hell!
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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It's a fair cautionary tale, for sure.
Occam's Razor.
What's more likely - the offense that just set NFL records is the result of a QB that has done that before more than once, and who has new, shiny weapons.... or the first year OC that had previously never been more than a QB or WR coach in the NFL. Who has more years as a scouting or offensive assistant (7) than coaching (6, including 2013).
He could well be lightning in a bottle..... but, it sure isn't the most logical immediate conclusion.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I agree with Purp that it is a good cautionary tail. But the two are in no way directly related.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Quote:
It boils down to a few things. How badly does this FO want the 3-4? It seems that they want it badly enough that they used their top 3 investments this past off season to make it work. (Bryant, Kruger, Mingo)
So after investing that much, you're left with three choices.
1. Abandon it and look like fools with an entire off season last year invested in a system you turn around and abandon.
2. Find a HC candidate that uses the 3-4.
3. Find a HC willing to let you dictate to him which D will be used.
I don't know, but I do know we have some players we can trade.
Guys, our D let us down a lot last year. It's not like we are busting up the Fearsome Foursome or the Steel Curtain if we make a switch.
My vote is lets just see what happens before we run around complaining about things that might not happen.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I'm looking forward to the GASE regime. I'll take young smart and NEW as long as he is dynamic and a future Super Star and he has that potential.
Lets get this done - Go Pats! Come on BB give us a hand here.
Hope this kid has his Young smart dream team ready!
Turn the players onto the new direction...they got it going. If they struggle on that then it might not be looking good.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
Quote:
It boils down to a few things. How badly does this FO want the 3-4? It seems that they want it badly enough that they used their top 3 investments this past off season to make it work. (Bryant, Kruger, Mingo)
All three of those guys played in a 4-3 before coming to Cleveland. Baltimore had a weird hybrid defense that looked more like a 4-3 than a 3-4.
And in reality, Schwartz, if he is the guy, runs what he calls a wide nine. I am not exactly sure how that translates to the players we have.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I just read about Jim Caldwell and now want nothing to do with Adam Gase.
I thought the same thing... when I read about Peytons injury and that the Colts were letting him go....
Didn't want nothing to do with him....
Was I wrong on assuming he would be injured after one good hit and that would be it for him..
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boy...the FO really screwed the pooch on this one.
they seem to be all in on gase...
so what if he says he doesn't want the job and stays at Denver?
the crap storm following would be....entertaining as hell!
For people like you it would.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
Quote:
It boils down to a few things. How badly does this FO want the 3-4? It seems that they want it badly enough that they used their top 3 investments this past off season to make it work. (Bryant, Kruger, Mingo)
So after investing that much, you're left with three choices.
1. Abandon it and look like fools with an entire off season last year invested in a system you turn around and abandon.
2. Find a HC candidate that uses the 3-4.
3. Find a HC willing to let you dictate to him which D will be used.
I don't know, but I do know we have some players we can trade.
Guys, our D let us down a lot last year. It's not like we are busting up the Fearsome Foursome or the Steel Curtain if we make a switch.
My vote is lets just see what happens before we run around complaining about things that might not happen.
Similar viewpoints were thrown about last year when we were talking about switching from the 4-3 to the 3-4 (after having just switched from the 3-4 only a couple of years prior).
At what point will we stop tearing it down and let something actually get built?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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At what point will we stop tearing it down and let something actually get built?
Hasn't been switched yet.....It's all assumptions and opinions at this point...It could stay a 3-4 and stay that way for several years... Again...jmo..
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Didn't see this posted: Detroit Lions to hire Jim Caldwell as head coach, report says ALLEN PARK, Mich. — The Detroit Lions wanted to replace Jim Schwartz with someone with experience as a head coach. The Lions landed one, though he appears to be Plan B. Jim Caldwell has been hired by Detroit, a person familiar with the situation told The Associated Press on Tuesday on condition of anonymity because the move had not been announced. ESPN first reported the hire. San Diego Chargers assistant and former Arizona Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt was seemingly Detroit's top choice, but he chose to take the head coaching job at Tennessee on Monday night. The Lions are giving Caldwell another chance to be an NFL head coach. He helped the Indianapolis Colts play in the Super Bowl after his debut season in 2009 and was fired two years later after a 2-14 season while Peyton Manning was injured, dropping his three-year mark to 26-22. Caldwell was hired by Baltimore two years ago to be their quarterbacks coach and was promoted to offensive coordinator late in the 2012 season. The Ravens went on to win the last Super Bowl. The Ravens, though, struggled on offense in 2013 and might've replaced Caldwell if he didn't get find another job. Baltimore ranked 29th on offense overall — 30th rushing and 18th passing — last season with Super Bowl-winning quarterback Joe Flacco and running back Ray Rice. Caldwell's body of work was enough to also make him a candidate to lead the Washington Redskins and Titans. Former Tennessee coach Mike Munchak and ex-Houston Texans coach Gary Kubiak were also considered by the Lions. Caldwell won his first 14 games with the Colts in 2009 before losing the final two games of the regular season while resting Manning and most of the other starters. The Colts lost to the New Orleans Saints in the Super Bowl. Indy was 10-6 the following season and won another AFC South title, then lost to the New York Jets in a wild-card game. With Manning out for all of Caldwell's third season, the Colts lost 14 games and Caldwell lost his job. In Baltimore, Caldwell replaced offensive coordinator Cam Cameron toward the end of the 2012 regular season and he seemed to give the offense a boost as it went on to win the Super Bowl against San Francisco. Helping the Lions win one playoff game would be a relative feat: Detroit has only one playoff victory — more than two decades ago — since winning the 1957 NFL title. Caldwell, who won two playoff games in his first season with the Colts, will be counted on to use his experience with quarterbacks to make Matthew Stafford better. Detroit drafted Stafford No. 1 overall in 2009 and after two injury-shortened seasons, he has been spectacular at times and shaky at others. When the Lions needed him most, he was at his worst last season. He had an NFL-high 14 turnovers from Week 11-16 as Detroit dropped five of six games, plummeting out of first place in the NFC North and wasting an opportunity to win a division title for the first time since 1993. Before Caldwell was hired by the Tony Dungy-led Colts in 2002 to be their quarterbacks coach, he had the same job for Dungy with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. He was fired as the head coach at Wake Forest in 2000 with a 26-63 record over eight seasons. Caldwell, who is from Beloit, Wis., played defensive back for Iowa and began his coaching career in 1977 as a graduate assistant with the Hawkeyes. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/01/detroit_lions_to_hire_jim_cald.html
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Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Quote:
Similar viewpoints were thrown about last year when we were talking about switching from the 4-3 to the 3-4 (after having just switched from the 3-4 only a couple of years prior).
At what point will we stop tearing it down and let something actually get built?
The $64,000 question. ???
I suppose when the main man feels he has the right guy in place.
I think for those who don't like Banner and Lombardi, this should be viewed as a good sign. Maybe my logic doesn't play for some, but I doubt Haslam would have dumped about 10 mil of his money on this move if he felt good about Chud from the beginning. I think Banner, and maybe Lombardi(not sure how active he was in the search last year) sold Haslam on him.....new owner.....you go with the guy/guys you hired.
This year, Haslam is going to go with the guy HE wants....if the others agree, great. If not, tough beans.
In my view, this firing put Banner for sure, and maybe Lombardi on notice. This owner isn't going to allow another Carmen Policey or Mike Holmgren to wallow around on a gold cart and feed off some past success for 3-4-5 years.
I understand not getting rid of them this year. That would have been dumb. The next to go....I guess it depends on who gives the best advice and seems to get along with Haslams choice as coach. The guy who can't goes, because whoever gets this coaching job isn't going anywhere anytime soon unless they really stink up the joint in a very obvious way.
Chuds downfall is he went with Weeden to start the season. Everybody he played after that looked and played better. I don't think anybody in the FO dictated, hinted, or anything else to give Weeden another shot at the job.
JMO
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Uh, yeah.... I was just referring to 3-4, 4-3, 3-4, 4-3, lol
At some point you have to accept the fact that you will not ever get ANYWHERE if you keep flipping everything every year or two. If you want to build a defense, pick a plan and STICK TO IT. If we're a 3-4 team, then you need to let HC candidates know what they'll be running. None of this letting them pick and choose every time we change a coach.
I know, you might think that's crazy.... well, Pittsburgh and the Rooney's don't think so. They had a very clear idea of what they were going to be and the new HC had to fit that mold, and the defense is a big part of that.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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