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I hope we rule him out all together before the SB.
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If the Bronco's make it to the SB... and we wait two more weeks for Gase and then he decides to pass on interviewing for the job..... 
If Browns hire a HC today, it makes it better than a couple weeks because....Why?
Really! What, are we missing on all the top assistant coaches? Teams are hiring Browns prior coaches.
This is the coach we hope will be in Cleveland for several years. Personally, I hope they make an exhausted attempt interviewing every last person. Since they are not competing with anyone, it makes no sense to hurry.
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If the Bronco's make it to the SB... and we wait two more weeks for Gase and then he decides to pass on interviewing for the job.....
Who will care? Of course, the mouthpieces on radio and TV will yuk it up, but it'll make no difference.
I actually think that the Browns have already decided against Gase, but since they're the only team without a HC, they'll wait. I think it's why they continue to interview potential candidates.
If a potential candidate decides to take some other job then they weren't the candidate they wanted anyway.
The Browns will get the candidate that they want and I really don't think they're going to be bullied or prodded into deciding earlier than they feel comfortable with making it. If it takes 2 weeks after the Super Bowl, they'll wait that long to make the decision. If they decide to make it after a single interview after the games on Sunday, that's when they'll make it.
Here's to hoping that they make the right choice.
The Browns hired Chudzinski (Jan 11, 2013) less than 2 weeks after firing Shurmur (Dec 31, 2012). Coincidentally, Shurmur was hired (Jan 13, 2011) 10 days after Mangini was fired (Jan 3, 2011). Mangini was hired (Jan 8, 2009) 10 days after Crennel was fired (Dec 29, 2008).
Personally, I want them to spend some time on this decision and to take as long as they need to. I want them 100% sure they want this person coaching their team, without any doubts whatsoever.
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that doesn't sound like the candidate they want,
that sounds like the candidate who didn't turn them down, THEN try to spin it saying this is the candidate they wanted all along.
isn't that the same thing that happened last year?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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I don't care if the candidate turned them down. I don't think they have any preconceived notions about who their ideal candidate is. They're simply interviewing coaches that have expressed an interest in the job and determining if they like that candidate or not.
To be sure, it's also a way for prospective candidates, whether they are hired or not, to interview the Browns organization. I'm sure that some will go through with interviews without any inclination that they will get hired, but they'll do it for no other reason than to familiarize themselves with what an NFL head coaching search is like. To find out what kind of questions they can expect to see if they interview for other teams at some other point in the future.
That's not to say that each team will ask the same questions or talk about the same things, but these candidates will have some additional knowledge about how it proceeds to help them in any such future interviews (if any) that they may have.
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i understand.
but right now, it doesn't seem like we are in the typical situation.
so if we wait til after the superbowl, and we STILL don't have a HC, what does that say? that we are being careful? or that nobody we targeted wants the job?
all the other teams didn't seem to have much of a problem finding the guy they wanted. even detroit, who had caldwell as the back up if whisenhut didn't take it.
i'm just concerned. i'm not gonna put too much worry about not finding a coach after the playoffs games sunday. but if we are still looking weeks after the superbowl, then there is a serious problem.
the longer we wait, the longer the HC has to put together his staff, talk to the players, get ready for the draft, go over the game film of last season, and talk about what players he wants to keep/get rid of/sign.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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- he instilled discipline (which he didn't, really)
Really you should stay out of any discussion of Mangini which basically is you hating that anyone states something in the realm of good about it. But man if you have any credibility you are losing it fast with ridiculous statements like that... I don't care if you like him or not no biggee but the fact you claim he didn't bring discipline to this team is an Ignorant statement...sorry it just is.
First of all - as I've said before, you should probably watch it with the insults. You can dish it out, but you can't take it.
You're very quick to belittle others and label them as ignorant, yet you cry like a little girl at any perceived slight.
Secondly...where was this discipline, so obvious that you'd have to be ignorant to say otherwise?
I think it is wise you let it go. Mangini regime ended years ago. All you want to do is create another hate topic. Why? Isn't Banner/Lombardi agenda enough?
Create another hate topic? What the hell are you talking about?
We're almost done here, anyway. All that's left is for someone to cite the drastic cut down in penalties as evidence of Mangini instilling discipline, and then I will post the stats showing this is a myth, at which point the argument will die off with something like 'Let's just drop it' or 'Agree to disagree'. 
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We've hired and fired TWO head coaches since Mangini left...who cares what he did or didn't do?
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We've hired and fired TWO head coaches since Mangini left...who cares what he did or didn't do?
Apparently a lot of people. Any time it's pointed out that he was a bum, someone comes along to defend him.
I really don't understand it.
My only point at the outset was that we dodged a bullet when McDaniels pulled his name from the running. We've picked from the Belichick tree too many times. It doesn't work.
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Report (although from Mary Kay) states Gase leaning toward staying with Denver, even if he gets an offer:
I never particularly cared for him anyway. I don't think they'll make him an offer, but they probably want to interview him. I really don't think they'll make him an offer.
From what I've read, he's not talking about it at all until the season for the Broncos is over.
No doubt that Gase isn't going to say anything until after the Broncos are out of the playoffs. That could be as soon as tomorrow.
But, until such time as an offer is reported to be made to him, I don't believe that an offer will be made.
So if he's not talking and the Browns aren't talking, how would MKC know anything?
There is one guy,, one that we know, one that we all pretty much like when he was here. I think they should speak with Brad Seeley..
Just for fun, check this out
http://www.cleveland.com/budshaw/index.ssf/2014/01/cleveland_browns_3.html#incart_river_default
Last edited by Damanshot; 01/18/14 08:22 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Seely is a fave of mine. Not sure as a HC, but he is a coach who gets it done IMO. Right now, we are so bold I can hardly stand it. Assumption mustbe that The Chosen One isn't merely a leftover and also has a stringer with some other guys attached to coach. But names are falling by the wayside. I see more bad outcomes than good potentially. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Normally I'd be rooting for Denver (can't believe I'm saying that after the late 80s!) and Seattle (sick of Kapernick), but I. Want those two out to hopefully end our search this week.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Report (although from Mary Kay) states Gase leaning toward staying with Denver, even if he gets an offer:
I never particularly cared for him anyway. I don't think they'll make him an offer, but they probably want to interview him. I really don't think they'll make him an offer.
From what I've read, he's not talking about it at all until the season for the Broncos is over.
No doubt that Gase isn't going to say anything until after the Broncos are out of the playoffs. That could be as soon as tomorrow.
But, until such time as an offer is reported to be made to him, I don't believe that an offer will be made.
So if he's not talking and the Browns aren't talking, how would MKC know anything?
There is one guy,, one that we know, one that we all pretty much like when he was here. I think they should speak with Brad Seeley..
Just for fun, check this out
http://www.cleveland.com/budshaw/index.ssf/2014/01/cleveland_browns_3.html#incart_river_default
I think that Brad Seeley would be a great head coach. Unfortunately, it won't be here. (well .... maybe ... depending upon how many times we changes head coaches in the next decade or so)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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We've hired and fired TWO head coaches since Mangini left...who cares what he did or didn't do?
It takes some a little longer than others to figure it out!
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We've hired and fired TWO head coaches since Mangini left...who cares what he did or didn't do?
It takes some a little longer than others to figure it out!
Right on schedule.
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i understand.
but right now, it doesn't seem like we are in the typical situation.
so if we wait til after the superbowl, and we STILL don't have a HC, what does that say? that we are being careful? or that nobody we targeted wants the job?
Let me ask it this way: Why should the Browns care what it says to the media, to the fans, or even to the candidates?
These jobs are an opportunity of a lifetime. They don't come often and few people get more than one shot at the brass ring. If you're a candidate and remove yourself from consideration, that speaks volumes more about you than anything it says about the Browns.
As for the fans and the media, they shouldn't matter one bit in making the decision at all.
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all the other teams didn't seem to have much of a problem finding the guy they wanted. even detroit, who had caldwell as the back up if whisenhut didn't take it.
Uh huh. Detroit stinks as bad - or worse - than the Browns. Say what you want about Stafford - in my estimation he's a failure. They had a HOF running back and arguably the best of all time, leave the NFL because he said the Lions weren't trying to win games.
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i'm just concerned. i'm not gonna put too much worry about not finding a coach after the playoffs games sunday. but if we are still looking weeks after the superbowl, then there is a serious problem.
Why? What happens in that time which should concern the head coach or the players?
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the longer we wait, the longer the HC has to put together his staff, talk to the players, get ready for the draft, go over the game film of last season, and talk about what players he wants to keep/get rid of/sign.
There's plenty of time to do all that. The only viable concern would be about assembling his staff. There could be candidates for those jobs that might take jobs elsewhere, but it shouldn't be too big of a concern.
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So if he's not talking and the Browns aren't talking, how would MKC know anything?
I'm not sure that she does know anything. If I were to hazard a guess, she's speculating like everyone else.
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There is one guy,, one that we know, one that we all pretty much like when he was here. I think they should speak with Brad Seeley.
I wouldn't be opposed to it, if for no other reason than to pick his brain.
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Just for fun, check this out
http://www.cleveland.com/budshaw/index.ssf/2014/01/cleveland_browns_3.html#incart_river_default
Not sure that I should put any more stock in Bud Shaw's comments (or Scott Fujita's) than Mary Kay's.
I don't think any of them has their own money on the line.
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Mike McCoy turned down many opportunities to even interview for a head coach position before interviewing for, and taking the Chargers job. He waited for the right opportunity.
I think that it's better to wait for the right opportunity than to ruin your career by taking a horrible situation.
This job is seen as toxic by some. Even in a profession where few opportunities exist, it makes more sense to some to wait for a situation that has everything you want as far as front office, ownership, and so on, then to jump into a bad situation. When a team has fired 4 head coaches in 7 years, no matter the reasons, and changes in ownership, that has to play into a prospective head coach's consideration of the job.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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~ Legend
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I don't know why people act like these jobs don't come around often. There's around 4 openings per year it seems.
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How many head coaching candidates have said the Brown's job is toxic? May I see their quotes, please?
All I know is that the majority of this board--and probably the local media---are going to hate whoever the Browns hire as the next head coach.
We will hear from posters that the Browns settled for so and so.
Or, we'll hear that so and so was the only guy who would take the job.
We will hear how the Browns picked w/someone w/not enough experience, or-----he is just another retread that has been fired for a reason.
The majority are not interested in playing fair. It's an all-out hate fest where logic and reason are not welcome participants.
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I think it's toxic.. I don't need a story to tell me. It's my opinion.
And yes, I think no matter who they choose, people aren't going to love it.
If you notice, there wasn't one candidate that anyone stood up for and had a crowd follow along. Nobody stood out. Not to me anyway.
So I'm bound to be disappointed no matter who they choose.
But I'm also open to changing my mind due to their actions.. NOT THEIR WORDS.
This front office and Owner have proven to me that they aren't to be trusted. I'm not telling you not to trust them, I'm saying I don't trust them.. you do as you wish.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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And there will be some singing their praises and talking them up and believing every little tidbit the FO says about them as if it were gospel.
They'll defend the guy (or gal - who knows?) til the cows come how because Banner & Lombardi say so.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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And there will be some singing their praises and talking them up and believing every little tidbit the FO says about them as if it were gospel.
They'll defend the guy (or gal - who knows?) til the cows come how because Banner & Lombardi say so.
LOL,, I doubt Lombardi says anything in public again 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Mike McCoy turned down many opportunities to even interview for a head coach position before interviewing for, and taking the Chargers job. He waited for the right opportunity.
Or maybe family factors helped him to decide. He interviewed in Chicago, Arizona, Philly, Buffalo & San Diego. Quite honestly, if I had those choices, I would probably have selected San Diego too.
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I think that it's better to wait for the right opportunity than to ruin your career by taking a horrible situation.
The 'right' opportunity may never come. You take the opportunities when they're facing you or you don't. Sometimes, as in McCoy's instance, you have multiple opportunities and have to select from one.
For instance, I had a couple of opportunities when I decided to move for work. I had offers for a job in two different places. Where I am is one of them, the other was in Albuquerque, New Mexico. If I were the only person to consider, I would have probably taken New Mexico. As it turned out, I chose to move further away and chose New York. I jokingly tell people that "I chose poorly."
I traded warmer weather and lots of sunshine for colder weather with clouds, rain and snow.
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This job is seen as toxic by some.
You might be right, but I suspect that that perception is driven by the media and not problems in the front office. Prospective candidates that have developed that perception aren't the ones that I want as the head coach of the Browns anyway.
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Even in a profession where few opportunities exist, it makes more sense to some to wait for a situation that has everything you want as far as front office, ownership, and so on, then to jump into a bad situation.
Again, the media driven perception reigns. It didn't keep Norv Turner from accepting a job as the OC. It didn't keep Ray Horton from accepting a job as the DC. The fact is, they got fired because they didn't get the job done. When they hired Chudzinski, a 4-12 or 5-11 season isn't what they envisioned.
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When a team has fired 4 head coaches in 7 years, no matter the reasons, and changes in ownership, that has to play into a prospective head coach's consideration of the job.
Undoubtedly it does. Bringing in a HC and firing him after one season will too. But, to me, it says that they aren't going to accept losing. They're willing to accept the criticism for making the mistake of hiring Chudzinski too eagerly, probably because he could bring in 'respected coaches' Turner & Horton with him. I suspect that they envisioned that Turner and Horton would help Chudzinski more than they did. This time, they're not going to be pressured into making any premature judgments and right now, they have all that pressure off them, no matter what is written or said about them in the media, uttered by the fans or anything else.
Yeah, I actually blame Turner and Horton more for Chudzinski's firing than the HC himself. If I were to guesstimate, I would say that Turner and/or Horton had more of a conflict with the front office than Chudzinski did but the front office couldn't fire the coordinators and bring in their own guys. It just isn't done that way. The HC brings in his assistants, not the front office.
Since we're speculating, let me propose this 'what if' for you to consider. Turner and Horton wanted out because of a conflict with the front office and tanked the season to perpetuate their departure (and Chudzinski's too) as quickly as possible?
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I don't know why people act like these jobs don't come around often. There's around 4 openings per year it seems.
Usually more than 4 of them, but there are more candidates than 4 vying for the jobs. Candidates from previous NFL head coaches, their coordinators and assistants, plus the ranks of college head coaches are vying for these jobs. The opportunity may present itself twice. It eventually did for Crennel but it took decades for him to get considered for a head coaching job and it was the lowly Browns that eventually offered him one.
This plays out throughout the NFL. How long did Bruce Arians have to wait for his shot? How about Tom Coughlin? John Fox? Pete Carroll? These guys built up resumes for decades for an opportunity.
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All Pro
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If I were to guesstimate, I would say that Turner and/or Horton had more of a conflict with the front office than Chudzinski did but the front office couldn't fire the coordinators and bring in their own guys
I've been wondering this same thing ever since this happened. I'm wondering if chud got canned because his loyalty was too great. I really think if he had gotten rid of one of these guys that he may still be here. would that have made any difference though? is he really HC material to begin with?
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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How many head coaching candidates have said the Brown's job is toxic? May I see their quotes, please?
All I know is that the majority of this board--and probably the local media---are going to hate whoever the Browns hire as the next head coach.
We will hear from posters that the Browns settled for so and so.
Or, we'll hear that so and so was the only guy who would take the job.
We will hear how the Browns picked w/someone w/not enough experience, or-----he is just another retread that has been fired for a reason.
The majority are not interested in playing fair. It's an all-out hate fest where logic and reason are not welcome participants.
Oh, I agree with this 100%. Get ready to take the arrows though. You know they're coming at you.
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I think it's toxic.. I don't need a story to tell me. It's my opinion.
And yes, I think no matter who they choose, people aren't going to love it.
If you notice, there wasn't one candidate that anyone stood up for and had a crowd follow along. Nobody stood out. Not to me anyway.
So I'm bound to be disappointed no matter who they choose.
But I'm also open to changing my mind due to their actions.. NOT THEIR WORDS.
This front office and Owner have proven to me that they aren't to be trusted. I'm not telling you not to trust them, I'm saying I don't trust them.. you do as you wish.
Fair enough. You don't trust them and you won't like anyone that they bring in. They could land YOUR #1 candidate (whoever that might be) and you'd be angry about it.
So, you think that Randy Lerner could be trusted? He simply didn't care about the team. You want Holmgren back in charge with Heckert & Shurmur tagging along? What paragons of virtue they turned out to be.
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I think it has more to do with that none of these coaches are inspiring in the least. Granted Chud had a short resume, but it was pretty successful. OC at Miami when they had the best offense ever of any college football team, OC of the Browns when we had a 10-6 season. Really laid the groundwork for the Panther's offense. Gase doesn't have the resume that Chud has, but is under the Saban tree which is interesting. And Quinn runs a 4-3 considering we just heavily invested in the 3-4 it's worrying that we would make a switch so quickly.
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I don't know why people act like these jobs don't come around often. There's around 4 openings per year it seems.
I believe Gase never gets this big an opportunity to call his shots. Him and Lamont basically have Haslam over a barrel. Lamont can really make Haslam/Banner look bad. This is why I believe Haslam/Banner have diligently kept the interview process going. When close, we will hear they narrow it to two or three candidates.
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And there will be some singing their praises and talking them up and believing every little tidbit the FO says about them as if it were gospel.
They'll defend the guy (or gal - who knows?) til the cows come how because Banner & Lombardi say so.
I really don't think that's the case, PPE. I think that there is going to be a lot of 'wait & see' attitude among the fanbase. But, I'll be willing to give the person (man or woman) that gets hired the benefit of the doubt. Will I give them more than one year before I rip into them? That remains to be seen. If they miss on this hiring, I think it's assured that both Banner & Lombardi would then be gone - and I'm not convinced that Lombardi has anything to do with the hiring of the head coach in any way.
The Browns ownership and front office haven't made a decision on who they're going to hire and nobody has accepted the job. Let's just see how things shake out.
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If I were to guesstimate, I would say that Turner and/or Horton had more of a conflict with the front office than Chudzinski did but the front office couldn't fire the coordinators and bring in their own guys
I've been wondering this same thing ever since this happened. I'm wondering if chud got canned because his loyalty was too great. I really think if he had gotten rid of one of these guys that he may still be here. would that have made any difference though? is he really HC material to begin with?
I really don't know, but everyone seems to be concentrating on Chudzinski not getting a second year. It may have been the only way to get rid of Turner and/or Horton. In the way that it's played out: Chudzinski's shock at being fired, the front office retaining the assistants and allowing them to seek employment elsewhere (so they don't payout their contracts), the comments made by all sides after Chudzinski's firing, etc. Wrap it all up like a detective and it spells a conflict between the front office and coordinators, not with Chudzinski.
If I were Chudzinski, I'd feel betrayed by my coordinators, not the team that gave me a shot at being their HC.
In DC, Shanahan wasn't undermined by his coordinators, he had a conflict with the owner directly. He was trying to get fired. If I were to hazard another guess, I'd say that he wasn't too thrilled by Snyder making the deal to get RG3 and handcuffing the team that he was hired to make perennial contenders. RG3 has turned out to be a headcase and he's hurting the team's development.
That wasn't the case in Cleveland. I feel badly for new Redskins HC Jay Gruden. He's set up for failure. He's still short-changed by the RG3 deal and without a first rounder (ironically, the 2nd overall selection - the same used to acquire RG3), and that will hamper the team in his first season. It'll be interesting to see what he's able to do. Unfortunately, Daniel Snyder isn't the type of owner that can admit a mistake.
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I think it has more to do with that none of these coaches are inspiring in the least.
Alright, I'll bite. What coach would you hire? Chudzinski has been fired, so keeping him isn't an option.
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Granted Chud had a short resume, but it was pretty successful. OC at Miami when they had the best offense ever of any college football team, OC of the Browns when we had a 10-6 season. Really laid the groundwork for the Panther's offense.
All of that may be true. As I've stated above, I actually think the problems were between the front office and at least one of the coordinators. Consider the situation if I am right. Could the front office fire the coordinators and leave the HC in place? How would you have taken that kind of event? How would it be viewed in the media outlets (print, the internet, TV and radio)? I propose that Chudzinski's firing may have been a necessary event to get rid of a problem at the coordinator position.
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Gase doesn't have the resume that Chud has, but is under the Saban tree which is interesting. And Quinn runs a 4-3 considering we just heavily invested in the 3-4 it's worrying that we would make a switch so quickly.
Gase comes highly spoken of by the front office and players alike in Denver, including Peyton Manning. It may all add up to nothing.
Quinn is an intriguing candidate.
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And there will be some singing their praises and talking them up and believing every little tidbit the FO says about them as if it were gospel.
They'll defend the guy (or gal - who knows?) til the cows come how because Banner & Lombardi say so.
I'd be thrilled with the Quinn hire. No guarantee it works out but him a Zimmer were my guys all along.
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~ Legend
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Malzahan would be my go to. But considering either we have no interest in him or he has no interest in us it's time to look beyond that. Pep Hamilton and Greg Roman are both young OC's that have been showing success. Pep Hamilton is Indy's OC, and they have looked pretty great. Before that he worked with Andrew Luck at Stanford and was OC there and was a WR and QB coach. Greg Roman is San Fran's OC, he's worked some magic with Alex Smith and Kaep. After that it's Quinn and Bowles, but their major problems are that they're not 3-4 DC's.
I don't believe there was a problem at the coordinator positions, so I'm not going to answer your question.
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j/c on this post, didn't feel like scrolling up the find the one I should be Re'ing.
I don't think Mangini is some great coach, but several people have stated "why are we taking about him? it was two coaches ago?".
To those people I remind you of what half the board thinks is extremely important, continuity. I think Eric was hired in 2011 for a 5 year tear down/ rebuild ( I true one ). 2014 would be year 4 for EM. His five year plan still has another year on it if my time frame is correct, but even if this year was the end, he would have one more season. ( this does not mean I think he would still be hear ).
I just saying it is a valid name to bring up since it seems like 1 of 10 posts talk about our lack of continuity to build a program. ( I do think Jimmy would have replaced when he bought the team).
On a side note, how many of you are puzzled at the offensive numbers Philly put up with Shurmer as OC?
I also read on PFT that Horton has been hired as Titans DC.
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
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If I were Chudzinski, I'd feel betrayed by my coordinators
did they really betray him though? I'm thinking they did exactly what they've done everywhere they've been. were they any different at all from their last jobs? I mean we all can use excuses like... injuries ... I don't have this... I need that... etc. but a winning coach will use what he's got and play their strengths. something our coaches didn't appear to be doing anywhere they've been.
a good HC needs to be able to recognize this from his coaches and adjust accordingly
Last edited by KNOXDAWG; 01/19/14 11:44 AM.
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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I'm not puzzled by Philly's offense. Chip Kelly knows what he's doing and Pat Shurmer is riding his coattails. IIRC Chip Kelly is the ones calling the plays, but either way Pat Shurmer's main problem was that his offense was based in the 80's.
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I would be thrilled if the FO gets an expierenced big name coach with a wining pedigree. The Browns need a Terry Francona like coach. They need to follow the Indians formula.
If the FO can pull something like that off then I will change my tune. I do not think that is what Banner and Lombardi want. They want complete control. They are looking for a puppet.
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On a side note, how many of you are puzzled at the offensive numbers Philly put up with Shurmer as OC?
LMAO. This comment made me giggle like a school girl. Do you really think Pat has much to do with Chip's offense? Chip makes the calls, it's Chip's system and I doubt much credit for Philly's system they run is on Shurmur's shoulder. Offensive coordinator, but more technically an "adviser" lol.
Just my two cents.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum HC search, pt 3
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