my reply to Jester from the part 2 thread:
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I believe Knapp runs a WCO and a zone blocking scheme.
Here's his stints as OC and some basic stats:
2001-2003 San Fran
+ 2001: Scored 409 points (25.6/g), 3rd of 31 in the NFL (QB Jeff Garcia)
+ 2002: Scored 367 points (22.9/g), 13th of 32 in the NFL (QB Jeff Garcia)
+ 2003: Scored 384 points (24.0/g), 9th of 32 in the NFL. (QB Jeff Garcia)
2004-2006 Atlanta
+ 2004: Scored 340 points (21.2/g), 16th of 32 in the NFL. (QB Mike Vick)
+ 2005: Scored 351 points (21.9/g), 14th of 32 in the NFL. (QB Mike Vick)
+ 2006: Scored 292 points (18.2/g), 25th of 32 in the NFL. (QB Mike Vick)
2007-2008 Oakland
+ 2007: Scored 283 points (17.7/g), 23rd of 32 in the NFL. (QBs McCown, Culpepper)
+ 2008: Scored 263 points (16.4/g), 29th of 32 in the NFL. (QB Jamarcus Russell)
2009 Seattle
+ 2009: Scored 280 points (17.5/g), 25th of 32 in the NFL. (QB Hasselbeck)
2012 Oakland
+ 2012: Scored 290 points (18.1/g), 26th of 32 in the NFL. (QB Carson Palmer)
All numbers courtesy of http://www.pro-football-reference.com
Interestingly, both Bridgewater and Manziel would probably excel best in the WCO. Fales is probably a good fit a little later in the draft (2nd round?). maybe McCarron in 3rd?
My reply to a post on the previous thread:
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Munchak, 53, was fired by the Titans after refusing to make sweeping changes in his coaching staff -- including firing both of his coordinators. The Titans even offered Munchak a contract extension, but he refused. He went 22-26 in his three seasons as head coach, including 7-9 in 2013. The Titans have failed to make the playoffs since 2008, and haven't won a playoff game since 2003.
They lost five straight at home this season and eight of 10 overall at one point. Losing starting quarterback Jake Locker to a foot injury didn't help, but quarterback issues often don't spare the ax, as Chudzinski discovered.
“I can’t fire someone when I don’t believe they should be fired,'' Munchak told the Tennessean the day after he was fired. "Firing someone is awful. Too many people were going to be affected. "I didn’t do anything to look like I was a great, loyal guy who went above and beyond the call of duty by not firing coaches. I did what you should do and what I thought was right. For me to maintain a job and a lot of guys lose jobs on a plan I didn’t think was right, I couldn’t do that.”
“I’ll make tough decisions, but not if they’re not right.”
Munchak, a Hall of Fame guard from the Oilers/Titans, had spent 31 years with the organization as a coach and player, including 14 seasons as offensive line coach before replacing Jeff Fisher as head coach. He had only one winning season, a 9-7 campaign in 2011. He also interviewed for the Texans offensive line job and the Penn State head job before it went to Vanderbilt's James Franklin.
“I know a lot of people might not have been happy if I was back,'' he said. "But I had a plan, and I believed it was going to work. I wanted to be here. I have been here for over 30 years. These jobs are hard to come by. I know the chance of me being a head coach again in the NFL aren’t that great. Most guys get one shot at it. But I wanted to do it with the right people, and do it the right way.
“The way they wanted to adjust the staff vs. me wasn’t going to work. So we disagreed on it.”
Man, Munchak just earned a ton of respect from me. What a great example of integrity. He is a man of great character.
That act reminds me so much of what Marty did w/Model back in the day.
On the other hand, and to offer up a side for debate .......
Instead of possibly firing a few coaches, now his whole staff will almost certainly be out of work. Further, maybe the coach sometimes is too close to the situation to see the bigger picture, Perhaps the front office saw something the coach did not see, or refused to see. There is something to be said for standing on principle, however, sometimes you also have to accept that you don't always have the final word. He exercised his right to refuse to do as his boss required, and paid the price. Whether he was right, and/or whether his actions were heroic can be debated.
J/C…
Vers… you mentioned in the previous thread to consider that Manning recommended Gase to Haslam. As previously noted, this was mentioned in the Denver Post as a possible connection. However, Manning does not strike me as a guy that would have anything negative to say about a current or former coach. It's bad business. I'm not implying Gase hasn't warranted his praise, but I'd take it with a grain of salt.
It's no different than in the real world, when a potential employer asks the question about your previous or current boss. It's always better to say something positive than bash the guy. Otherwise, it can be as a perceived negative on you. Manning knows the game…say all the right things, all the time. The NFL can be as political as anything else.
Heck, both Dungy and Manning praised Caldwell, and Dungy went so far as to recommend Caldwell for the position to the Lions. My point is, while glowing endorsements are wonderful, it isn't a precursor to future success.
Article on Caldwell
Nobody commented on your post from the previous thread.
The one about McDaniels being back in the mix.
Not sure he ever was really out.
Ugh. I would vomit if McDaniels is selected to be our head coach.
I am really feeling worse and worse about this process. Hopefully that means that we get a guy who turns into a real superstar coach. I could deal with being really, really wrong if it means that the team becomes really, really good.
At this point, though, I am really worried.
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Nobody commented on your post from the previous thread.
The one about McDaniels being back in the mix.
Not sure he ever was really out.
Shell Shocked? 
I'm getting worried myself.I Think Munchak may get the job by default,as some of the choices,won't even interview for the job.
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Heck, both Dungy and Manning praised Caldwell, and Dungy went so far as to recommend Caldwell for the position to the Lions. My point is, while glowing endorsements are wonderful, it isn't a precursor to future success.
Yep. Almost every head coaching candidate winds up with ringing endorsements from former so workers and players. Romeo got them here and in KC, and he was a flop in both spots.
At this point, I'm just really numb to the whole 'process.'
Will a new coaching hire truly make that much of a difference in the Browns'?
I'll make it easy for you: the answer is "No."
____________________
The myriad problems with this team can all be traced to a single reason: lack of continuity.
Without continuity, a team will never work out the fine points that make a winning franchise. Oh, they can put together a team that can win the lone SB game, but it's something else to build a team that can expect to compete in The Tournament year after year.
Building something like that requires vision, trust- and the fortitude to see it through the hard years.
Modern-day Browns have been soft, in that regard.
We haven't stuck with ANY program for more than 2-3 years since The Return, and this current bunch have only shown us that their 'trigger finger' is itchier than all the rest.
What have they done so far to make me believe that they are not just a continuation of the same whackazz 'suck-sess model' we've been following since '99?
I'll make it easy for you: nothing... yet.
___________________
New coach? New OC/DC?
Big Deal.
NONE of it will matter until this team actually commits to something.... and that can't be determined until another 2-3 years go by.
Another 2-3 years.
IMHO, this will be a wasted draft, no matter who's coming out... because the Browns' infrastructure is so broken. How can a draft board be set, if we don't yet know who will coach these players? Who the OC & DC will be? What systems they'll want to run? Who do we have that can fit those systems?
Coaching choice is almost immaterial for 2014. What's most important is this: do these guys even know what thy are doing?
I'm not certain that they do... but I'm certain that 'My Browns Patience' is at an all-time low.
They'd better not frakk this offseason up, or I'm done.
Why the hell aren't we talking to Greg Roman? Guess that makes too much sense.
If it comes down to Gase or McDaniels I'd take McDaniels. At least he has experience. It's not like Banner will let him anywhere near the draft anyway. The roster is his domain. Roster blunders were McD's big problem. That and he couldn't get along with a DC for an entire season
Still, Gase has been an OC for ONE season on a team where Peyton pretty much runs the show.... He may end up being an excellent HC. But his inexperience scares the hell out of me.
GREG ROMAN. Offer him a BIG deal and pray he is stupid enough to take it....
Then pick TWO quarterbacks in the first round. One of them has to be the man.
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At least he has experience.
Ugh I hate that premise.
Let's say that you have to have an operation. There are 2 doctors available to do it for you. One doctor only has 6 months experience, but so far so good. The other doctor has 5 years experience, but half of his patients die in surgery. Which doctor do you want to work on you? 
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If it comes down to Gase or McDaniels I'd take McDaniels. At least he has experience.
That is my initial take as well. Gase may be an excellent offensive tactician, but can he strategize? Is he a leader, a motivator? He has such a limited resume...
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If it comes down to Gase or McDaniels I'd take McDaniels. At least he has experience.
That is my initial take as well. Gase may be an excellent offensive tactician, but can he strategize? Is he a leader, a motivator? He has such a limited resume...
Hell lets just hire Schwartz AND Gase and put them in as HC1 and HC1A, then we can fire both odf them and be the only franchise to fire 4 HC in two years.
As somebody else put it I am just numb ( or is it dumb) to anything they do right now. I haven't a clue what direction they are going and will just sit back and let the buffalo chips fall where they may.
Not sure it matters anyway, I will give them some credit though... if they are trying to tank 2014 they are certainly going about it the right way and getting ahead of the curve. 
Ah well when they drop a Modell at mid field this next year... Haslam will clean house anyway and the new FO will want their own coach so we can start over again... yippeeeeeeeeeeeeee 
all JMHO.... so the facts police wont demand proof. 
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IMHO, this will be a wasted draft, no matter who's coming out... because the Browns' infrastructure is so broken. How can a draft board be set, if we don't yet know who will coach these players? Who the OC & DC will be? What systems they'll want to run? Who do we have that can fit those systems?
Coaching choice is almost immaterial for 2014. What's most important is this: do these guys even know what thy are doing?
exactly- this is the real problem. We built for the future by accumulating all of these picks. Now we have a new staff (well, soon anyways). What system will the new guys run. They will not know our current roster. Our scouts were looking for guys for the previous system, now they are in a free fall scrambling to assess guys for a new unknown system. What a disaster. And what about Mingo, he doesn't translate well out of the 3-4, so did we just waste another first round pick if a switch to the 4-3 is made? So now we bank on Banner and Lombardi's knowledge of the current players (yikes) and hope they can project these guys to what another coach wants to do (disaster). This entire situation just pisses me off.
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Will a new coaching hire truly make that much of a difference in the Browns'?
I'll make it easy for you: the answer is "No."
I disagree, the right choice could make all the difference in the world.
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Without continuity, a team will never work out the fine points that make a winning franchise. Oh, they can put together a team that can win the lone SB game, but it's something else to build a team that can expect to compete in The Tournament year after year.
Building something like that requires vision, trust- and the fortitude to see it through the hard years.
Name one. Name a team that has stuck with the same FO, the same coaching staff, the same program for a prolonged period of time while they sucked and ended up building something like that.
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IMHO, this will be a wasted draft, no matter who's coming out... because the Browns' infrastructure is so broken. How can a draft board be set, if we don't yet know who will coach these players? Who the OC & DC will be? What systems they'll want to run? Who do we have that can fit those systems?
The scouting department has been dissecting draft eligible players all year, the draft is still 4 months away, players are currently being scouted, evaluations are still being done... boards are still being put together.... the combine is still over a month away, we will have a staff in place by then... then 2 1/2 months after the combine to analyze, refine, and prioritize based on the new staff... I'm not saying this draft is a guaranteed success, but if it's a failure, it won't have anything to do with this coaching search..
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What's most important is this: do these guys even know what thy are doing?
Any time you have a new collection of people working together, isn't this always the most important question?
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IMHO, this will be a wasted draft, no matter who's coming out... because the Browns' infrastructure is so broken. How can a draft board be set, if we don't yet know who will coach these players? Who the OC & DC will be? What systems they'll want to run? Who do we have that can fit those systems?
The scouting department has been dissecting draft eligible players all year, the draft is still 4 months away, players are currently being scouted, evaluations are still being done... boards are still being put together.... the combine is still over a month away, we will have a staff in place by then... then 2 1/2 months after the combine to analyze, refine, and prioritize based on the new staff... I'm not saying this draft is a guaranteed success, but if it's a failure, it won't have anything to do with this coaching search..
Yeah I agree with DC. Still to early to be a real problem. They only have to find enough guys they like for their system to pick 10, and that's if they don't trade up at all.
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Without continuity, a team will never work out the fine points that make a winning franchise. Oh, they can put together a team that can win the lone SB game, but it's something else to build a team that can expect to compete in The Tournament year after year.
Building something like that requires vision, trust- and the fortitude to see it through the hard years.
First of all, I know DC was quoting Clem here. As for the quote, there's no question about it. There's also no question that quite a few other teams/franchises haven't been able to do it. We talk about the Packers, Steelers and the Patriots as being models for this, and they are. Even the 49ers with all their Super Bowl wins have gone through ownership and coaching changes over the years. But that still leaves how many organizations that haven't done it? Quite a few.
Right now, I'll give Haslam credit for trying to get it right. Hopefully he can.
What about Gary Kubiak as OC? He was an average at best HC but a darn good Offensive Coordinator.
j/c:
Browns owner Jimmy Haslam updates fans on coaching search in letter Browns owner Jimmy Haslam released a letter this morning to update fans on the team's search for its seventh full-time head coach since 1999. It was sent to season-ticket holders. The letter can be read below. Fans,
I thought it was important to take a little bit of time to update you on our head-coach search. We have had the opportunity to speak to a number of outstanding candidates. We have purposefully been very methodical in our approach. We believe it is very important to stay disciplined to this process and to interview all of the candidates on our list. We are strongly committed to finding the right person to coach the Cleveland Browns.
We understood from the beginning that if we wanted to speak to all of the coaches on our list that we may need to wait until they have completed their participation in the playoffs. We are prepared to wait as long as necessary because this is a very important decision. Everyone in our organization is committed to finding the right leader for our team.
We believe the head coach of the Cleveland Browns to be a very attractive position. We have one of the youngest teams in the League, a roster that includes five Pro Bowlers. In addition, we have more salary-cap room than all but one NFL team. We also have three of the top 35 picks in the upcoming draft and five of the top 83 selections.
We are very much looking forward to adding a strong coach to our football team. On behalf of the Cleveland Browns, I cannot thank you enough for your valuable support and passion that you show for our team.
We look forward to communicating with you again after the search process is complete. Thank you again for your phenomenal support and loyalty.
http://www.ohio.com/blogs/cleveland-brow...ksEnabled=false
for the later round guys, if we do end up in some type of WCO:
Fales
Price
Murray
Those are the guys who I both like and strengths fit into the WCO. All seem to be more backup than starter material (hence the later round status).
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At least he has experience.
Ugh I hate that premise.
Let's say that you have to have an operation. There are 2 doctors available to do it for you. One doctor only has 6 months experience, but so far so good. The other doctor has 5 years experience, but half of his patients die in surgery. Which doctor do you want to work on you?
So you don't want an a coach that has no HC experience, and you don't want coaches who have had experience.....who do you want??? Bill Cower isn't coming here and I'm fairly certain Harbaugh isn't leaving the niners anytime soon. There are only two options....1) take a chance on a young guy like Gase or Quinn and hope he is special....2) take a chance on a guy who didn't succeed at his first stop like JM or MM. Both have worked well in the past and both have failed miserably.
Guys who have been successful in the NFL either are still with their teams or have next to zero percent interest in returning to that grinding lifestyle. You have to pick one of the above options 99% of the time.
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j/c:
Browns owner Jimmy Haslam updates fans on coaching search in letter
Browns owner Jimmy Haslam released a letter this morning to update fans on the team's search for its seventh full-time head coach since 1999. It was sent to season-ticket holders. The letter can be read below.
Fans,
I thought it was important to take a little bit of time to update you on our head-coach search. We have had the opportunity to speak to a number of outstanding candidates. We have purposefully been very methodical in our approach. We believe it is very important to stay disciplined to this process and to interview all of the candidates on our list. We are strongly committed to finding the right person to coach the Cleveland Browns.
We understood from the beginning that if we wanted to speak to all of the coaches on our list that we may need to wait until they have completed their participation in the playoffs. We are prepared to wait as long as necessary because this is a very important decision. Everyone in our organization is committed to finding the right leader for our team.
We believe the head coach of the Cleveland Browns to be a very attractive position. We have one of the youngest teams in the League, a roster that includes five Pro Bowlers. In addition, we have more salary-cap room than all but one NFL team. We also have three of the top 35 picks in the upcoming draft and five of the top 83 selections.
We are very much looking forward to adding a strong coach to our football team. On behalf of the Cleveland Browns, I cannot thank you enough for your valuable support and passion that you show for our team.
We look forward to communicating with you again after the search process is complete. Thank you again for your phenomenal support and loyalty.
http://www.ohio.com/blogs/cleveland-brow...ksEnabled=false
In spite of everything, I just can't help but really want him to succeed. Not just because I love the Browns, (again, in spite of everything,) but because I really believe he believes. I hope he gets it right 
but finding a winning head coach is very much like finding a QB; it's a crap shoot. For that reason, a guy like Gase is very scary but also very intriguing. I also really hope he can find it in his heart to interview Greg Roman. If they're really going to be methodical and not just play lip service to that notion ala Holmgren, then they can't leave him out of the mix.
Wish we could get Tony Dungy to start up a mercy mission here.
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At least he has experience.
Ugh I hate that premise.
Let's say that you have to have an operation. There are 2 doctors available to do it for you. One doctor only has 6 months experience, but so far so good. The other doctor has 5 years experience, but half of his patients die in surgery. Which doctor do you want to work on you?
So you don't want an a coach that has no HC experience, and you don't want coaches who have had experience.....who do you want??? Bill Cower isn't coming here and I'm fairly certain Harbaugh isn't leaving the niners anytime soon. There are only two options....1) take a chance on a young guy like Gase or Quinn and hope he is special....2) take a chance on a guy who didn't succeed at his first stop like JM or MM. Both have worked well in the past and both have failed miserably.
Guys who have been successful in the NFL either are still with their teams or have next to zero percent interest in returning to that grinding lifestyle. You have to pick one of the above options 99% of the time.
I want a coach with experience, but not necessarily head coaching experience. I want a coach with a wide resume, one of accomplishment over an extended period of time. I want a coach who, if he has failed elsewhere, has re-established himself on a successful path once more.
The surgeon analogy is a good one. I want a surgeon with some degree of experience to work on me. I don't want the old guy with shaky hands, and who may be stuck in the past as far as his methods of doing things. I don't want the cocky surgeon who has made huge mistakes, and who has never bothered to look at why they happened. I don't want the failed surgeon, who has lost a bunch of patients.
If I go with a younger surgeon, then I want a guy who has successfully completed his internships, and who has applied himself and done well in his assignments. If I go with an older surgeon who has failed in the past, then I want for him to have taken the time to determine why it happened, and to have established himself as a successful surgeon again.
What I don't want is the surgeon without enough experience, the older guy who has let the profession pass him by and is stuck in the past, or the guy who failed and never determined for himself why that happened.
Obviously it's not an easy selection, since we are hiring our 5th head coach in 7 years. However, I do think that there are certain criteria the team can look for that give a candidate a better chance of succeeding than other candidates.
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I want a coach with experience, but not necessarily head coaching experience. I want a coach with a wide resume, one of accomplishment over an extended period of time. I want a coach who, if he has failed elsewhere, has re-established himself on a successful path once more.
I get that, but why the hate for McDaniels then? He has established himself again after the Donks job......rumored to be Bill's replacement. If that is what you want then he should be high on your list but you hate the guy...lol.
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If I go with a younger surgeon, then I want a guy who has successfully completed his internships, and who has applied himself and done well in his assignments. If I go with an older surgeon who has failed in the past, then I want for him to have taken the time to determine why it happened, and to have established himself as a successful surgeon again.
Then you should be high on Quinn. The guy has College and NFL experience and has been successful wherever he has gone.....but correct me if I'm wrong you don't like him either.
I get that people are upset by the major cluster that just happened, but expectations also have to be realistic about the new HC hire. As you mentioned, it's a crap shoot really, and IMO whomever we select at QB is a much bigger selection than whom we select at HC....and will probably determine if we deem this guy to be a genius or another goof.
j/c...
My initial wish was Gruden cause I thought he would bring something new and be able to polarize the players quickly.
then as we found out he was not looking to come back to coaching.
My next wish was Wisenhunt cause he had some success was from the Steeler tree that Haslam refers to and was the best 2nd Run at HC candidate.
Now we head into the 3rd option.
I like Gase a lot...he is new, fresh and innovative. I see a potential of Super Star HC in him like none of the other candidates.
Also he has a respected reputation with players that go beyond the norm. The type of guy players would run through a brick wall for.
So I'm gung ho for that result now its not such a risk as some might think...I sure as heck hope he gets an acceptable record his first year out but even so I think Haslam is committing to this Long Term hire. Where as I think he distanced himself with the previous choice of Chud...and Banner/Lombardi feared Haslam to defend Chud when the time came.
I would not mind growing with a HC like Gase and let power grow with him including his choice of GM in the future cough: farmer : cough
But I will back Lombardi 100% if he has a good draft n FA process as being THE GUY for GM...until then he is on thin ice in my mind (trying to figure out Haslam)
JMHO
I don't know if crap shoot is the right phrase for that, I just think it's more about the players than the media wants you to think.
Coaching is important in the NFL, probably more important than any other sport, but you can only do so much from the sideline.
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Zimmer to the Vikings.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000...ings-next-coach
Zimmer out of the AFC North and we have no competition for whichever co-ordinator we want to hire from the remaining playoff teams. Win/Win.
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I want a coach with experience, but not necessarily head coaching experience. I want a coach with a wide resume, one of accomplishment over an extended period of time. I want a coach who, if he has failed elsewhere, has re-established himself on a successful path once more.
I want a coach who wins games... here.
I hate to be overly simplistic but if you go back and look at the list of highly successful coaches in the league recently, there isn't really much in common in their resumes except they have all coached football, in some capacity, somewhere...
There are just too many ups and downs and too many variables to know, with any degree of certainty, who is going to be a good NFL HC...
Would you hire a guy with this resume?
After being a position coach in college for a while he was hired as a QB coach of a team and in his first year the offense was 5th in the NFL, in his second year they regressed to 30th and then he was fired (along with the HC)....
then he went on to be a QB coach somewhere else and in his first season you had the 17th ranked offense in the NFL.. so you got promoted to OC. As OC your team made it to the super bowl in your first year but it was largely regarded as a product of your 5th ranked defense and NOT your 14th ranked offense... then the next year the offense actually improved a little but overall the team won 5 fewer games.... the following year the team started very slowly on offense with him calling the plays, then after about week 4, was stripped of his play calling duties and then the team went on to go 10-6 and make the playoffs... This guy was about to be fired when.....
he was hired away by somebody else to be QB coach/Asst. HC for 3 years and during those 3 years his offense never finished ranked higher than 13th in the NFL and the year after he left that job the offense immediately went on to finish 5th...
So would you hire Sean Payton or not? Most people, based on those stats that have been thrown around for every potential coach we've discussed would say... no way in hell. The guy was stripped of his playcalling responsibility and then the team got a lot better? That would be a dagger for most people...
Great post, DC!
jc.
I just hope this is all part of "getting the guy they wanted", and not turning into, "needed someone to fill the roll" so that we end up rebooting to "try to get the guy we wanted" again next year.
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jc.
I just hope this is all part of "getting the guy they wanted", and not turning into, "needed someone to fill the roll" so that we end up rebooting to "try to get the guy we wanted" again next year.
That sure is how it smells...
Which smell is that?
Guy we wanted or Fill in Guy?
I think it all points to guy we wanted. As was mentioned by several journalist not involved with the Browns usually when a guy like McDaniels or Browles take their name off our list it means they know that we have a first choice somewhere else.
All of course are assuming its Gase for several reasons but we could be surprised by the DC of Seahawks.
Pretty sure its Gase but then I was pretty sure it was McD when I thought Lombardi was doing the picking. This is Haslam's baby now...I think he did the firing on his own and doing this hire on his own!
All I know is he better be good at this - in his position its cause he is good at this or he inherited everything...I think he has done a lot with his business...including going back to it to get it out of the federal mess they were in.
JMHO - if we go with McD...or Munchuck I think its a OH well we have to have somebody type of thing.
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for the later round guys, if we do end up in some type of WCO:
Fales
Price
Murray
Those are the guys who I both like and strengths fit into the WCO. All seem to be more backup than starter material (hence the later round status).
I like Fales and Mettenberger a lot. I'm not sure that either one will be there when the Browns decide to select a QB. They may both be gone in Round 2, maybe early Round 3. If either one is there, I consider taking them in either Round 2 or early in Round 3.
Murray may also be gone. Although, if he's there in Round 4, I might consider taking him as well, even if I've taken Mettenberger or Fales earlier.
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Ugh. I would vomit if McDaniels is selected to be our head coach.
I know you loved Mangini. He and McDaniels seem like similar guys to me. What do you see as the difference?
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Ugh. I would vomit if McDaniels is selected to be our head coach.
I know you loved Mangini. He and McDaniels seem like similar guys to me. What do you see as the difference?
They're both jackasses who thought they were a lot smarter than they were.
Can't say I was unhappy when McDaniels withdrew his name.
Well not sure if jackass is a real football argument...lol 
The only negative I had on McD is that he is considered a disciplinarian???
With the firing I thought we needed a HC who could Polarize the players quickly into the new system.
JMHO
There have been reports that McDaniels has been working on his people skills since he got fired from the Broncos job. That would be helpful. Mangini was a straight up dictator (Google search: Nate Jackson Eric Mangini).
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Instead of possibly firing a few coaches, now his whole staff will almost certainly be out of work.
I get the feeling he's more interested in his integrity.
Anyway, he felt he was right so he stood his ground.
He had a couple of key parts but was missing a lot. So maybe the FO needed to look in the mirror. Kinda like what the FO needed to do here.
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There have been reports that McDaniels has been working on his people skills since he got fired from the Broncos job. That would be helpful. Mangini was a straight up dictator (Google search: Nate Jackson Eric Mangini).
I'm actually currently reading Nate Jackson's book. I rarely read sports books because I typically find them to be dull and boring, but this book has been a very interesting read. Gives an honest, first hand account into life as an NFL player or in Nate's case, a man trying to survive in the league.
I'm good with McDaniels, Munchuck, Quinn, or Gase to be honest. I think any of the above could be successful in the right situation. I love what Mike did with the Titans considering the QB issues he had. That team never quit on him in any season. Although I don't think it will happen, he is probably my favorite. With the other guys you have to hope that either they learned from past mistakes (JM) or you are finding the young up and comer (Quinn/Gase).
I have no stats to prove it, but I would venture to say that the failure rate for 1st time HCs are much higher than those whom have had an opportunity previously and learned from past mistakes. I look at playoff teams remaining, and 3 out of the 4 HCs are on their 2nd/3rd job.........only Harbaugh was a one time NFL guy, but he was a HC in college. Coordinators with no HC experience scare me, but that doesn't preclude some of them from being very very successful.....I just think the odds are much slimmer.
My wishlist in order would be.......
MM
JM
Gase
Quinn
Which means we will end up with Gase/Quinn...lol. Here's for hoping we are finding that lightening in the bottle with one of them!
Belichick was a jackass too until he started winning now he's a quirky genius.
The media still hints/talks about his sleeveless, cut hoodies he wears.
I wonder why that fashion trend just never caught/catches on?
He's picked up his game - he wore hefty bags when he was here.
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Belichick was a jackass too until he started winning now he's a quirky genius.
Oddly enough,he didn't win until he found a QB. What does that say. The real test is wil he win if Brady retires. He had a good year with a back up a few years ago so it's possible.
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Belichick was a jackass too until he started winning now he's a quirky genius.
Oddly enough,he didn't win until he found a QB. What does that say. The real test is wil he win if Brady retires. He had a good year with a back up a few years ago so it's possible.
He's not going to the AFC championship every year, but he can win with marginal QB play...
The best coaches in the league can do it. The job John Fox did with Tebow a few years ago.. I know the division was weak and they got in at 8-8, but the guy got them to .500 with Tim Tebow, and won a playoff game...
Jim Harbaugh, same deal. Alex Smith is probably a slightly above average QB, but he got a ton of out him in that first year... Another good coach, Andy Reid got him to play well. It's not a coincidence that Alex Smith was dog crap until those 2 came along.
I said in another topic that people undersell the value of good players when you talk good coaching, but the very best coaches in this league get the most out of their guys, especially at the QB spot...
I think some guys you can see a mile away, and others it takes time.. Harbaugh we all knew... What sucks is that I think we all see his successor at Stanford is going to be a great coach someday, and he seems pretty loyal toward his alma mater.
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He had a good year with a back up a few years ago so it's possible.
didn't even make the playoffs that year 
(yes, I realize they went 11-5 and it was a good year)
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The best coaches in the league can do it. The job John Fox did with Tebow a few years ago.. I know the division was weak and they got in at 8-8, but the guy got them to .500 with Tim Tebow, and won a playoff game...
and you have to know that went a long way to convincing Peyton to sign there
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He had a good year with a back up a few years ago so it's possible.
didn't even make the playoffs that year
(yes, I realize they went 11-5 and it was a good year)
Isn't that what I said?
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The best coaches in the league can do it. The job John Fox did with Tebow a few years ago.. I know the division was weak and they got in at 8-8, but the guy got them to .500 with Tim Tebow, and won a playoff game...
and you have to know that went a long way to convincing Peyton to sign there
Peyton of all people knows how crappy of a QB Tim Tebow is. I bet he threw up a few times watching some of his game tape.
He probably figured if Tebow can go 8-8, that he can win 12-13 games if he wants to. Wherever Peyton would have gone, he'd be good. He would have made US good. He definitely went to the best possible situation though.
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[Manning] definitely went to the best possible situation though.
I disagree. The 49ers were in on him as well. Manning combined with Harbaugh would have been quite ridiculous.
manning in SF, with a defense?
it would've been a slaughter all the way to the SB.
Add to it his Home Games wouldn't have been in Colorado...
I think Elway was the key.
I'd rather play 6 games against KC, SD and Oakland than against Seattle, Arizona and St. Louis.
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Now we head into the 3rd option.
I like Gase a lot...he is new, fresh and innovative. I see a potential of Super Star HC in him like none of the other candidates.
Also he has a respected reputation with players that go beyond the norm. The type of guy players would run through a brick wall for.
Gase has been an OC for ONE season on a team with Peyton Manning running the offense. Never been a head coach at any level. If we hire Gase it's for one reason. So Banner can keep total control over everything. But hey, why not? We don't need a Head Coach that knows the job. We want a guy that has never been the lead dog.... That ALWAYS works out well.
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I wonder why that fashion trend just never caught/catches on?
Didn't Banner wear a hoodie at the last presser? 
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I'd rather play 6 games against KC, SD and Oakland than against Seattle, Arizona and St. Louis.
would you have 2 years ago though?
I think the Manning argument can go two ways...
"I don't want this guy, he's Manning's OC, he basically does nothing!"
or
"Well, Peyton Manning must trust this guy to come up up with a gameplan and call plays, so theres something there..."
JUST BECAUSE Manning is your QB, doesn't mean as an OC you do nothing all week and hang out drinking Gatorade during the games... The guy puts in work..
And I would like to point out, what you do as an OC/DC almost has no bearing on how you will perform as a HC. It's a completely different job...
That's why I HATE when a HC wants to call his own plays, it just shows his lack of interest in the ENTIRE team...
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JUST BECAUSE Manning is your QB, doesn't mean as an OC you do nothing all week and hang out drinking Gatorade during the games.
Absolutely.
But, when you have Manning as your QB and you are a nobody from nowhere with no track record, EVERYONE needs to be skeptical of just how much credit you deserve for the ridiculous level of success that offense is having.... especially when, by accounts, it is the offense Manning ran with the Colts.
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And I would like to point out, what you do as an OC/DC almost has no bearing on how you will perform as a HC. It's a completely different job...
I agree. The HC still is involved heavily, but he isn't calling every defensive and offensive snap. He'll be talking with his coordinators, but he isn't making every call.
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I'm good with McDaniels, Munchuck, Quinn, or Gase to be honest. I think any of the above could be successful in the right situation. I love what Mike did with the Titans considering the QB issues he had. That team never quit on him in any season. Although I don't think it will happen, he is probably my favorite. With the other guys you have to hope that either they learned from past mistakes (JM) or you are finding the young up and comer (Quinn/Gase).
I have no stats to prove it, but I would venture to say that the failure rate for 1st time HCs are much higher than those whom have had an opportunity previously and learned from past mistakes. I look at playoff teams remaining, and 3 out of the 4 HCs are on their 2nd/3rd job.........only Harbaugh was a one time NFL guy, but he was a HC in college. Coordinators with no HC experience scare me, but that doesn't preclude some of them from being very very successful.....I just think the odds are much slimmer.
My wishlist in order would be.......
MM
JM
Gase
Quinn
Which means we will end up with Gase/Quinn...lol. Here's for hoping we are finding that lightening in the bottle with one of them!
To put this in perspective, 7 teams had retreads last year, and 4 of them made the playoffs. Out of the remaining 25 teams who had hired first time HCs 8 made the playoffs and 17 did not. I know this isn't an accurate sample size to draw a real conclusion, but I did find it interesting regardless......and it went along with what I was saying about rookie HCs so that doesn't hurt either.
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I think the Manning argument can go two ways...
"I don't want this guy, he's Manning's OC, he basically does nothing!"
or
"Well, Peyton Manning must trust this guy to come up up with a gameplan and call plays, so theres something there..."
JUST BECAUSE Manning is your QB, doesn't mean as an OC you do nothing all week and hang out drinking Gatorade during the games... The guy puts in work..
And I would like to point out, what you do as an OC/DC almost has no bearing on how you will perform as a HC. It's a completely different job...
That's why I HATE when a HC wants to call his own plays, it just shows his lack of interest in the ENTIRE team...
I have no way of knowing how things will work out if he's hired.
What I do know? The play calling isn't set in stone by Gase. Peyton always has the choice, after reading the D, to audible.
In the end, it's Peyton's reads that determine the call of the play. Same as it was in Indy.
Ragarding Haslam's letter to the fans......
We KNOW you want to get it right. We KNOW you are doing the very best. We also know every past owner and FO has felt the exact same way.
We hope you do get it right........ this time.
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We KNOW you want to get it right. We KNOW you are doing the very best. We also know every past owner and FO has felt the exact same way.
I don't KNOW that Randy Lerner WANTED to do it right..
I FEEL like he got stuck with the team, hired people he was told were smart, and let them bother with it so he could watch soccer...
I look at it this way....
If you plan to sell the team in ten years ( which is what was reported to be in his dad's will ), you want to make money. If your team is a winner, you make more money when you sell it.
If you plan to keep it, you want to win.
Either way, if you're in the football business in any way, shape or form, you want to win. It's just good business.
Wanting to fail, ( unless you're the Colts tanking one year for Luck ), isn't a way to help grow your investment.
What could possibly go wrong? We are, afetrall, methodically sticking boldly to a plan which dare not be shared. Our selection process is making us more toxic.
JC
Some positive press on the coaching search
Don Banks - Si- MMQB Patience Is a Virtue in the Head Coach Hunt
It's rare that the Browns get credit for taking the smart approach, but they're doing it right when it comes to finding Rob Chudzinski's replacement. The NFL's coaching carousel spins fast. Too fast. And now it's time for the league to make changes to help the hiring teams that can't help themselves
By
Don Banks
· More from Don·
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(Tony Dejak/AP :: Ed Zurga/AP)(Tony Dejak/AP :: Ed Zurga/AP)
I don’t even care if it’s an intentional display of patience on their part, or in reality a byproduct of not being able to give the job away, I’m still convinced the sometimes clueless Cleveland Browns are taking the right approach when it comes to conducting their latest head coaching search. By taking their time.
Yep, I just typed the words “right approach” and “Browns coaching search” in the same sentence. It stunned me, too.
As quaint as it might sound in the instant-gratification world in which we live, the Browns deserve kudos for actually showing some restraint in the pursuit of their next coach. Because the speed dating that passes for the NFL head coaching interview and hiring process these days is growing more frenzied all the time.
It has been only 17 days since Cleveland surprisingly lowered the boom on first-year head coach Rob Chudzinkski, but that clearly is an eternity in today’s NFL. For a team that couldn’t even wait until the league’s so-called “Black Monday” to make the move—announcing Chudzinski’s firing just hours after its regular-season finale on Dec. 29 after the news started leaking out—the Browns are proceeding considerably more deliberately in the hiring phase of the proceedings.
Browns owner Jimmy Haslam on Wednesday even felt compelled to issue a letter to his team’s panicked fans, offering an explanation for the perceived hold-up in the search, which has included a few candidates removing their name from consideration. After all, six of the NFL’s seven head-coaching openings have already been filled, with only the Browns still interviewing candidates. You snooze, you lose, right?
The Browns, Haslam wrote, intend to “stay disciplined to this process and to interview all of the candidates on our list.” They are being “very methodical” in their approach, and “are prepared to wait as long as necessary because this is a very important decision.”
Well, roger that. Maybe if the Browns had taken a little bit more time to make their coaching decision last year, they wouldn’t have felt it necessary to can Chudzinski one year into a four-year contract. Live and learn, I guess.
“We understood from the beginning that if we wanted to speak to all of the coaches on our list that we may need to wait until they have completed their participation in the playoffs. We are prepared to wait as long as necessary because this is a very important decision. Everyone in our organization is committed to finding the right leader for our team.” —Jimmy Haslam
As novel an idea as it passes for, Cleveland wants to interview all of the candidates on its list, and that means quite possibly waiting until after the Super Bowl to do so, when a bevy of assistant coaches from Denver, Seattle, San Francisco and New England (pretty, please Josh McDaniels?) will become available.
Quite the concept. But why isn’t it more common? Why is it in the NFL that most teams will spends months preparing for the draft, and weeks and weeks diving into free agency research and preparation, but then feel the need to invest only a handful of days into a critically important head coaching search? Isn’t picking your next coach at least as important as picking your next crop of players?
But that’s the current system the patient Browns are bucking to a certain degree, with the NFL’s rules on the interview windows for head coaching candidates during the postseason making a sprint out of some teams’ searches. Hiring a head coach has become a furious game of musical chairs, and teams desperately don’t want to get caught without one of the most sought-after chairs once the last notes are played. Houston got the game going this year, firing Gary Kubiak with three weeks to go in the season, and getting the desired head start on the rest of the field with the hiring of Penn State coach Bill O’Brien by Jan. 2.
That’s the way the hiring-season game is played now, but that can’t possibly be the best solution. While there will no doubt be issues to overcome no matter when the interview window falls, the most equitable thing to do is to make teams wait until after the Super Bowl is played to interview and hire a new head coach. Revolutionary, I know, but it would remove some of the biggest problems that exist in the current NFL system, even if it didn’t serve to dramatically slow the pace of the hirings once the window opens.
For one, assistants coaches on teams that make deep playoff runs or go to the Super Bowl won’t be disadvantaged any more. Those are usually some of the most attractive candidates on the market, as they are again this year with Broncos offensive coordinator Adam Gase, Seattle defensive coordinator Dan Quinn, and 49ers offensive coordinator Greg Roman. Yet many times those still-in-season candidates never get the chance to land a job because teams are too anxious to find their new coach and fill out a new coaching staff, and are thus unwilling to wait for the completion of the five-week postseason.
Last year at this time, San Francisco’s Roman was considered a strong candidate for the opening in Jacksonville, where new Jaguars general manager David Caldwell was shopping for a coach. But when Seattle lost in the divisional round, and coveted Seahawks defensive coordinator Gus Bradley came free, he wound up getting the Jaguars before Roman even had the opportunity to interview. Why? Because the 49ers were Super Bowl-bound. And the same scenario has probably played out this year, with Washington (Jay Gruden), Tennessee (Ken Whisenhunt), Detroit (Jim Caldwell) and Minnesota (Mike Zimmer) all making their coaching hires in the past six days. Three of those four coaches were on teams that just finished playoff runs in the past two weekends.
Taking more time to sort through the interview and hiring process would perhaps help teams avoid the pitfalls the Browns think they encountered last year, when their pursuit of Chip Kelly failed, and they responded by quickly landing Chudzinski. The urgency to hire someone, and not be seen as having been spurned by your top candidates, is a real and powerful motivator that can prompt clubs to short-change the decision-making process and all of its long-term ramifications.
COACHING CAROUSEL
Ken Whisenhunt is the right man for the Titans' job. Here's why Peter King thinks so.
Andrew Brandt explores why the firing process is so painful, as well as the inexact science of hiring coaches.
Meanwhile, Don Banks says the Titans' decision to fire Mike Munchak should serve as a reminder that coaches are people too, and not just fodder for headlines.
Gone too would be the onerous practice of making head-coaching candidates on playoff teams schedule interviews in clumps, just a day or two before they work the most important game of their club’s season. The divided attention span issue is a thorny one for playoff teams to contend with, but needlessly so, since it could be eliminated.
No more need for an offensive coordinator like Whisenhunt to interview with three teams and prepare a game plan for San Diego’s divisional-round playoff game at Denver, all within the span of a few days. And no more team officials like Vikings general manager Rick Spielman flying to Charlotte last weekend to interview the 49ers’ Roman and his fellow San Francisco assistant, defensive line coach Jim Tomsula, at a hotel less than 24 hours before the 49ers’ road playoff game at Carolina.
Is anyone capable of doing their best possible work under those circumstances? It’s not ideal for the coaching candidates, the teams they currently work for, or for team officials who are forced to jet around the country and jam some pretty crucial job interviews into tiny windows of time.
And if every team searching for a head coach has the potential of the same hiring season start date, then everyone has the same pool to build an assistant coaching staff from, and doesn’t have to make premature or hasty decisions based purely on pressure to compete for the best assistants. There would still be mad competition on that front, but there would at least be a leveling of that particular playing field.
A post-Super Bowl start to head coach hiring season would get push-back from those who think it’d be the end of the world to not have a fully operational coaching staff in place and scouting at next week’s Senior Bowl workouts in Alabama. But a team’s personnel and scouting staff doesn’t get completely wiped out in a coaching change and that assignment could be handled. With the lighter offseason programs in today’s NFL, you don’t desperately need a head coach in early to mid-January any way, and you’d still have months to make up for any draft prep that might be missed by conducting a February coaching search. After all, the draft this year has been moved to the second weekend of May, so there’s still all the time in the world for a new coaching staff to set its board.
I’ve never thought of them this way before, but the Browns might be the smart ones here. They’re taking their time to find a head coach. At least this time. They’re determined to find the right guy. Even if he’s not available right now.
I'll take all of that pseudo-praise with a block of rock salt. We played the waiting game when we hired Crennel, too.
Taking your time doesn't guarantee results, it just implies that you're being careful enough to look at all of the options.
Browns add Mike Pettine to list of head-coaching interviews Add Bills defensive coordinator Mike Pettine to the list of candidates to be the next head coach of the Cleveland Browns.
Pettine will interview on Thursday, Jay Glazer of FOX Sports reports.
The 47-year-old Pettine is a well-regarded defensive coach who has been mentioned as a potential head-coaching candidate in the past, but this is the first time he’s been identified as a candidate for the Cleveland vacancy. Pettine just completed his first season as the defensive coordinator in Buffalo after four years as the defensive coordinator of the Jets. He’s previously spent time as a linebackers and defensive line coach with the Ravens.
The Browns, who fired coach Rob Chudzinski at the end of the season, say they’ll take as long as necessary to identify the right coach. Pettine’s interview is the next step in that process.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...ing-interviews/
I'd Go And Get Quinn. Just A Feeling Though.Just Looks Like A Coach.
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I'll take all of that pseudo-praise with a block of rock salt. We played the waiting game when we hired Crennel, too.
Taking your time doesn't guarantee results, it just implies that you're being careful enough to look at all of the options.
You might be right. As ironic as it may sound, Crennel has had the longest tenure (4 full years to Butch Davis' 3-plus before he quit on the team) for the Browns since Belichick and had guided the team to it's most wins (24) to Butch Davis' (23) since the return.
Maybe waiting won't hurt the development of the team. Maybe the future for the Browns is better than you might think.
JC
Manning is one of the best offensive minds in football. I've never seen anyone fault an assistant for who their HC is and I'd consider that Peyton is smarter than most offensive minded HC's.
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Browns add Mike Pettine to list of head-coaching interviews...
If Pettine was to get the job, he could always hire Dick Jauron and Chan Gailey as co-ordinators... 
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Now we head into the 3rd option.
I like Gase a lot...he is new, fresh and innovative. I see a potential of Super Star HC in him like none of the other candidates.
Also he has a respected reputation with players that go beyond the norm. The type of guy players would run through a brick wall for.
Gase has been an OC for ONE season on a team with Peyton Manning running the offense. Never been a head coach at any level. If we hire Gase it's for one reason. So Banner can keep total control over everything. But hey, why not? We don't need a Head Coach that knows the job. We want a guy that has never been the lead dog.... That ALWAYS works out well.
You do know that I didn't say any of that right?
Waiting a few more weeks isn't going to hurt anything anymore than hiring a guy 6 days ago would help.
We waited till after the Super Bowl to hire Romeo and look how well that turned out. . .
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We waited till after the Super Bowl to hire Romeo and look how well that turned out. . .
And?? Is there a point in your comment? We hired Pat Schurmer pretty quickly. How did that turn out?
The key is talking to all the people you want to talk to.....if you can't talk to them when you hope to, you pass on them or wait.
I like that we are waiting. That doesn't mean we will get the right guy....just the way it goes....but it does mean you didn't pass on somebody because you were impatient.
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We waited till after the Super Bowl to hire Romeo and look how well that turned out. . .
This FO is no friend of mine these days, but I don't see an issue with WHEN a guy is hired.
I'd probably look at it a bit skeptically if we waited until after the SB and then hired someone a that was available from the start, someone that wasn't in the Playoff Hunt and could have been hired right away.
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Waiting a few more weeks isn't going to hurt anything anymore than hiring a guy 6 days ago would help.
Exactly. We probably wouldn't even need to have one signed before the Combine if we didn't want to. I don't think Chudzinski was at the Combine for the Browns last year, was he? Maybe someone else can recall for certain.
We need to make sure that we get the right coaching candidate. I'd be surprised if anyone looks at the HC that recently got hired and think to themselves 'Would I prefer any of them over any other candidates that are now available?'
Remember, the search will go on and now we have no competition. Since there are NFL rules that teams cannot keep coordinators from making an upward move, all the DCs and OCs that would consider the job are now possible candidates. Every single one of them (except Bowles and McDaniels, of course). I wouldn't consider them viable candidates anymore anyway. I would never consider them serious candidates to be coaches in the NFL at any time in the future either.
They may prove me wrong by getting some gig somewhere, but I think they read too many stories or listened to too many media reports and tanked their careers because of it.
If it were me, and a candidate withdrew their name from consideration, I would have a hard time considering them for the job. Not because they decided not to take the job, but because they decided it before officially being asked for the opportunity to hire them. It says the same thing to me as when Brandon Weeden, thinking that Chip Kelly would be the Browns HC said that he couldn't run that offense.
It might have been a factor in Chip Kelly deciding not to take the gig. He might have thought to himself, "I'll be saddled with a QB that already doesn't have the confidence in himself to even try to do what I will tell him to do." I don't know, just contemplating it.
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I'd probably look at it a bit skeptically if we waited until after the SB and then hired someone a that was available from the start, someone that wasn't in the Playoff Hunt and could have been hired right away.
Why? And who are you speculating that could have been? I have no problem with them waiting.
The only concern that I have is that as these newly hired head coaches start to fill out their coaching staffs, we might lose out on some candidates that we could have gotten in those roles ourselves. I won't lose too much sleep over it though. The proper hiring as the HC would take less-than-ideal coordinators and turn them in to decent if not ideal coordinators.
j/c
First, remember what Haslam stated at his last presser, something to this affect, we will not make public our actions during this interviewing process. Everything posted by the media is most likely coming from an agent. Take for granted what media posts.
Second, I hope Browns don't hire a coach until every opportunity available is made. Nobody is standing in their way. If it takes until after the super bowl, I am fine with it. Coaches hired so far were nothing earth shattering got to have types.
Third, as for OC and DC remember Munchak and Schwartz are available.
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Third, as for OC and DC remember Munchak and Schwartz are available.
But I would look at asking Munchak to become the OL coach.
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I'd probably look at it a bit skeptically if we waited until after the SB and then hired someone a that was available from the start, someone that wasn't in the Playoff Hunt and could have been hired right away.
Why? And who are you speculating that could have been? I have no problem with them waiting.
The only concern that I have is that as these newly hired head coaches start to fill out their coaching staffs, we might lose out on some candidates that we could have gotten in those roles ourselves. I won't lose too much sleep over it though. The proper hiring as the HC would take less-than-ideal coordinators and turn them in to decent if not ideal coordinators.
Well that's pretty simple, not sure why you are asking. If we wait until after the SB and then hire someone that was available from the start of the search could indicate that we ended up with our second choice (perhaps for the second year in a row).
Like I said, I'd be skeptical.
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Well that's pretty simple, not sure why you are asking. If we wait until after the SB and then hire someone that was available from the start of the search could indicate that we ended up with our second choice (perhaps for the second year in a row).
Like I said, I'd be skeptical.
I'm asking because it seemed like you had a person (or two) in mind when you made the statement.
But, even if your right and they hire someone that was available sooner or from the onset, why should that matter? Haslam has come out and said that they would interview every candidate on their list before making a decision. Names might also be added to the list as they become available.
As I stated before, all OCs and DCs on all other teams are now available if they want to be considered. There are no other possible competitors at this time and the NFL has rules saying that teams cannot hinder coordinators from seeking a vertical move up the career ladder.
J/C. I wouldn't have a problem at all if they waited this long and then hired someone they interviewed at the beginning. All that would tell me is that they truly wanted to interview everyone on the list and make an educated hire.
j/c:
I just love how some of you put a negative spin on everything.
Phonies...........is the word that comes to mind.
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j/c:
I just love how some of you put a negative spin on everything.
Phonies...........is the word that comes to mind.
I think you're looking for pessimistic, Holden. 
I don't like us letting go of Horton, but I guess it was going to happen with the new coach anyway.
Haslam's waiting plan might actually work. Now that all other teams have filled their coaching positions. There should be someone out their that gets desperate enough to even work with Banner and Lombardi.
Yes, but are they desperate enough to work in a town that has a hateful media and fan base. You know, the same media and fan base that has been wrong over and over and over again.
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Third, as for OC and DC remember Munchak and Schwartz are available.
But I would look at asking Munchak to become the OL coach.
Totally agree! Being a HC stepping down to a OL...I wonder! Maybe Munchak brings Bruce Mathews in as his OL coach!
Anyway I totally disagree how the media is portraying the Browns are doing themselves a disservice waiting.
With Schwartz, he can play both 3-4 and 4-3 having Sheard. Wide nine defensive scheme I think would be ideal...Mingo and Sheard one side...Bryant and Kruger on the other.
Mike Pettine isn't some scrub. He was the guy who turned Buffalo's defense into one of the better ones in the game. Main reason they led the NFL in sacks and they were top 5 in INTs. Rex Ryan talked about him being a HC someday.
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We waited till after the Super Bowl to hire Romeo and look how well that turned out. . .
A lot of arguments can be made that he was the best of all the bad we had.
Longest tenure
Most wins in a season
Actually got something out of braylon, derek, winslow, etc.
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We waited till after the Super Bowl to hire Romeo and look how well that turned out. . .
A lot of arguments can be made that he was the best of all the bad we had.
Tallest midget.
I was joking by the way. I am a fan of waiting as long as possible as long as we get the right guy.
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We waited till after the Super Bowl to hire Romeo and look how well that turned out. . .
A lot of arguments can be made that he was the best of all the bad we had.
Tallest midget.
I was joking by the way. I am a fan of waiting as long as possible as long as we get the right guy.
I know.
And yes, he'd still be on his toes at the urinal.
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Yes, but are they desperate enough to work in a town that has a hateful media and fan base. You know, the same media and fan base that has been wrong over and over and over again.
Just how has the fan base been wrong that constantly firing coaches does not help us get better?
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Yes, but are they desperate enough to work in a town that has a hateful media and fan base. You know, the same media and fan base that has been wrong over and over and over again.
Just how has the fan base been wrong that constantly firing coaches does not help us get better?
Yeah, I'm not sure how the fan base and media have been so wrong over and over about these failed head coaches when we've only had two successful seasons seasons in the past 14 years? Even if you have said "We suck." since we came back you'd be 85% accurate.
Some interesting comments from Sam Rutigliano on the coaching search and our front office.
http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2014/01/13...just-like-chud/
I wonder just how connected Sam is these days.
A similar report leaked a week or so ago, and was shot down as incorrect.
Who knows? Usually a coach's contract has a gag order when he is let go, yet paid his full salary. I have no idea if that applies to other coaches though, or just the media.
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J/C. I wouldn't have a problem at all if they waited this long and then hired someone they interviewed at the beginning. All that would tell me is that they truly wanted to interview everyone on the list and make an educated hire.
Exactly. It's very possible that they waited until after the Super Bowl in order to interview one of the assistants that worked in it and then after the interview thought that he was not the right guy.
Waiting until after the Super Bowl only means they did their due diligence, no indication of not getting their guy and settling for someone else.
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We waited till after the Super Bowl to hire Romeo and look how well that turned out. . .
LOL...That made me chuckle
j/c
I wonder if the opposite of Sam's claim is true.
If Haslam is leading the search and has final say on the hire, Banner & Lombardi will be hard-pressed to 'dump' on the new guy or try and do something different than what was promised to said new guy.
If the new guy is "Haslam's guy" he'll have as much - or more - juice than Banner & Lombardi.
Maybe Haslam really is a genius with this type of stuff...the best way to curb two egomaniacs - working with a third guy - is to make sure that the third guy has the ear and support of everyone's boss...I hope so.
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I'm asking because it seemed like you had a person (or two) in mind when you made the statement.
Not sure how you arrived at that but OK,, However, had I had someone in mind, I'd have written the name.
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If we wait until after the SB and then hire someone that was available from the start of the search could indicate that we ended up with our second choice (perhaps for the second year in a row).
Like I said, I'd be skeptical.
But if after-the-sb-guy comes in and bombs the interview, you don't hire him anyway in order to avoid taking a PR hit. It's not like they're going to make anyone happy anyway, no matter what they do right now.
And I highly doubt Chud was their second choice, more like 4th or 5th, but I get your point.
I have no problem with them taking their time on this. I'll be patient as they hire their coach. I'll be patient as they work through the draft. I'll be patient as the QB situation plays out during camp.
My patience ends opening day. Rookie QB be damned.
I think Gase is who they want, with a fallback plan (if Gase bombs the interview or refuses the job) of hiring Munchak or Schwartz.
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J/C. I wouldn't have a problem at all if they waited this long and then hired someone they interviewed at the beginning. All that would tell me is that they truly wanted to interview everyone on the list and make an educated hire.
Exactly. It's very possible that they waited until after the Super Bowl in order to interview one of the assistants that worked in it and then after the interview thought that he was not the right guy.
Waiting until after the Super Bowl only means they did their due diligence, no indication of not getting their guy and settling for someone else.
My only fear with waiting isn't about getting the right guy, it's about the amount of time that guy has to assemble his staff of coordinators and position coaches.. all of the coaches that have been hired are gobbling up the best available staff while we haven't hired the coach yet... that is what scares me.
Don't misunderstand me Flap, I have no issue with waiting until after the SB to hire a Coach.. No problem at all.
I don't know if Chud was the backup or not. It sure appeared they were hot after Kelly. When they didn't get them, they seemed to act like jilted lovers.. But again, that's just a perception I had at the time. I could be totally wrong.
I'm skeptical of everything these guys do now. And that's really an unfamiliar place for me to be. I'm usually trying to find ways to understand and be accepting of FO moves. I guess that comes from being a "glass half full" kinda guy. But these guys have made me to a double take.
Oh well, I don't run the team (and that's a good thing) so I've got two choices, accept and move on or start following a different team.
I think the jilted lovers analogy fits perfectly. We know they were after Kelly, and reportedly were hot on Marrone and O'Brien before Chud was even mentioned. It seemed like a panic move to me from the get go. That's kind of why the quick fire didn't totally surprise me.
For the record, I think your being skeptical is completely fair. I am too. Some folks are just refusing to even consider that the FO isn't just throwing darts at the wall.
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I think Gase is who they want, with a fallback plan (if Gase bombs the interview or refuses the job) of hiring Munchak or Schwartz.
I think so too.
j/c...Vers you lose me on the media thing - hey you lose anywhere you are going to be criticized. Fans that is really the puzzlement...we are praised over n over and its always been a positive that every coach that comes here and leaves here admire the fan base.
Other notes.
1. I think records being a evaluation tool goes so far. Especially for Asst. Coaches
Organizational skills, leadership regarding getting the most out of the players and football intelligence...whether they are an OC HC or positional asst. it is on these characters that they should be evaluated on. sometimes w/l record is so miss leading except with a 2nd chance head coach.
But that is what the interview process is...to find out what they learned and how will they approach this new task with the knowledge they have accumulated.
2. I guess the only advantage of a quick hire is the hiring of the staff...but if its waiting for the correct HC you can always look long term and over the next year or two get the correct staff in place. So I think getting the right HC is obviously more important.
3. Right now...all roads lead to Gase and we will only be as good as our QB so that is probably a very key factor. DC...there are many good DCs very smart ones.
JMHO
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If Haslam is leading the search
Not directing this at you specifically, but why are so many folks thinking that Haslam is directing the search? I've seen a number of people say things like this, but from what I can tell it all stems from nothing more than people hoping this is the case, and not actually backed up by anything.
As for Chud talking to candidates.... I don't know that it was "shot down". There was one article posted refuting it, but that is hardly the same as "shot down". It's just a case of one person's word vs. another's.
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If Haslam is leading the search
Not directing this at you specifically, but why are so many folks thinking that Haslam is directing the search? I've seen a number of people say things like this, but from what I can tell it all stems from nothing more than people hoping this is the case, and not actually backed up by anything.
As for Chud talking to candidates.... I don't know that it was "shot down". There was one article posted refuting it, but that is hardly the same as "shot down". It's just a case of one person's word vs. another's.
I think the article was from MKC and it read "Per an NFL Source" which means she could of talked to Banner and was pure damage control. MKC has done that in the past like she did with Chip Kelley.
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If Haslam is leading the search
Not directing this at you specifically, but why are so many folks thinking that Haslam is directing the search? I've seen a number of people say things like this, but from what I can tell it all stems from nothing more than people hoping this is the case, and not actually backed up by anything.
As for Chud talking to candidates.... I don't know that it was "shot down". There was one article posted refuting it, but that is hardly the same as "shot down". It's just a case of one person's word vs. another's.
I think it's assumed by the media that Chud was more on Banner than anyone else, and after that didn't go well, Jimmy has taken a more active role.
Of course we have no idea. It sounds reasonable, but I'm sure he had his input on Chud being brought in too. I mean that was his very first coach hire as owner...
J/C.
Random thought: I just can't help but wonder what the reaction would have been around here if Shurmur would have been fired after 1 year. I don't for one minute think it would have been nearly as crazy as it's been because it was Chud.
I'm not sure why everyone is so sure that we are waiting on Gase? we asked to interview Quinn and I wouldn't see why they wouldn't interview Bevell as well.
Yes, the media is doing everything they can to point us at Gase and it seems logical that we are waiting on the co-ordinators of the playoff teams. But, I don't get why the Seahawk guys have been so summarily dismissed.
I don't even see a big deal in the new coach hiring their staff.
Most of these guys are networked in with friends all over the league. I believe they already have a pretty good idea who they want to hire.
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My only fear with waiting isn't about getting the right guy, it's about the amount of time that guy has to assemble his staff of coordinators and position coaches.. all of the coaches that have been hired are gobbling up the best available staff while we haven't hired the coach yet... that is what scares me.
I agree.
Although I too think well have also read in the past every HC candidate has a network of staff who wish to work with them...n vice versa.
But the problem with the late hires. If a lateral movement it must be with the blessings of the team who holds their contract and if they have no contract and are out there will they turn down coaching jobs waiting for ONE Coach to finish their Playoff run while the other 7 or 8 job offerings get taken up by other candidates?
As for the question on why people think this is on Haslam now.
Well not official but it seems the fire is on Haslam...that Banner/Lombardi was thinking long term and not urgent until Haslam put his foot down. Possibly they threw Chud under the bus.
As for Chud talking down the job to potential candidates.
1. It doesn't sound like something Chud would do...why burn the bridge when that could come up in future job considerations.
2. He's still under contract and is getting paid again this could come to court as a breech to the guaranteed portion of their contract.
3. Possibly candidates might have approached Chud to find out what happened before or after they interviewed...getting a brief or detailed report??? But most of that would be confidential I would presume which to me this all smells of "RUMOR"
Maybe they read it on WIKIPEDIA...lol
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3. Right now...all roads lead to Gase and we will only be as good as our QB so that is probably a very key factor. DC...there are many good DCs very smart ones.
IF we go with Gase, then logic would tell us that we are definitely ALL-IN on a top QB this year. I think this because the logic in the argument that Gase is somehow riding the Manning success express means that he needs a QB with comparable football knowledge or field generalship. Obviously you can't compare a rookie ANYBODY to Manning, but if I had to draw comparisons it would be Johnny Football that gets the nod.
However it is exactly the fact that I think we need to feel this way about Gase, that makes me think he is not in anyway our target.
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3. Right now...all roads lead to Gase and we will only be as good as our QB so that is probably a very key factor. DC...there are many good DCs very smart ones.
IF we go with Gase, then logic would tell us that we are definitely ALL-IN on a top QB this year. I think this because the logic in the argument that Gase is somehow riding the Manning success express means that he needs a QB with comparable football knowledge or field generalship. Obviously you can't compare a rookie ANYBODY to Manning, but if I had to draw comparisons it would be Johnny Football that gets the nod.
However it is exactly the fact that I think we need to feel this way about Gase, that makes me think he is not in anyway our target.
I think any coach is going to want a top QB this year, especially since the last guy only got a year with mostly Weeden/Campbell.
True.
I think our target is probably Dan Quinn. I think Seattles D is the best performing single unit on any NFL team this year. If I'm Haslam, that's my guy.
The problem then becomes WHO runs the O?
He took over a top defense from Gus Bradley(#4 yards against, #1 scoring), and the team added more talent than they had last year. He has the 2nd easiest job of all of the candidates, in my opinion (Gase has Manning, he doesn't need an OC). I'm not sure why this guy is a candidate outside of he's the shiny new toy.
general reply...
I think we should hire a bunch of these guys and have a competition
works for qb's right? lol
I'll watch, but i just can't care anymore. I'm with Clem...we will be nothing until we have some continuity...
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IF we go with Gase, then logic would tell us that we are definitely ALL-IN on a top QB this year. I think this because the logic in the argument that Gase is somehow riding the Manning success express means that he needs a QB with comparable football knowledge or field generalship.
I don't see one of those in this draft.. Anyone else see one?
a field general? Teddy is the closest...and he isn't close at all.
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J/C.
Random thought: I just can't help but wonder what the reaction would have been around here if Shurmur would have been fired after 1 year. I don't for one minute think it would have been nearly as crazy as it's been because it was Chud.
I would have been just as livid as I am now. Firing a coach after just 11 months is stupid.
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J/C.
Random thought: I just can't help but wonder what the reaction would have been around here if Shurmur would have been fired after 1 year. I don't for one minute think it would have been nearly as crazy as it's been because it was Chud.
I would have been just as livid as I am now. Firing a coach after just 11 months is stupid.
Chud, in the eyes of management, being the wrong coach. You are stating it be wiser to keep for two or three years in hopes things change?
To me, this is a no win situation. Could they have done a better job in the beginning? I don't know. Fans already assembling gallows while FO is doing more searches this go around. Can you imaging if Browns' FO were in this state last year? How does one know they get it right the second time? It is no different anywhere else. You read a resume, interview, hire, and hope!
Every company is looking to hire a up-and-coming executive.
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a field general? Teddy is the closest...and he isn't close at all.
And it doesn't look as if we have a chance of getting him.. So, therefore, no Manning in this draft.
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Yes, but are they desperate enough to work in a town that has a hateful media and fan base. You know, the same media and fan base that has been wrong over and over and over again.
That would be my main concern.
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a field general? Teddy is the closest...and he isn't close at all.
He's also 21 and has plenty of time to grow into one.
Browns to interview Rich Bisaccia for head coach position.
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Browns to interview Rich Bisaccia for head coach position.
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YEEESSSSSSS!!
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Browns to interview Rich Bisaccia for head coach position.
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YEEESSSSSSS!!
Stone turned.
If we're interviewing ST coaches can we pick up Brad Seely?
lol you see the tweets after it? gold.
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If we're interviewing ST coaches can we pick up Brad Seely?
Only if SF looses to Seattle this weekend!
Yeah, I did. Pretty funny.
I'm become numb to this whole process. I could care less who we hire anymore...as long as they win.
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Yeah, I did. Pretty funny.
I'm become numb to this whole process. I could care less who we hire anymore...as long as they win.
Agree! Who is to say who is right! Media is in a feeding frenzy with negative reporting. Fans are all up in arms Browns didn't hire a fired coach. It's simply crazy.
Why not some up and coming new guy? Flip a coin whether this guy works or not. If they get it wrong, what the heck we are already under .500 last several years.
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Browns to interview Rich Bisaccia for head coach position.
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Are these guys just bored or something? Who the heck... 
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Browns to interview Rich Bisaccia for head coach position.
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Are these guys just bored or something? Who the heck...
Hey, he looks like Jay Glazer, what more could you want?
Ok, I'm not defending the interview process in general or this guy specifically.. I just think it's funny that because folks here have never heard of him and because he hasn't commanded a top 10 offense or defense and because he isn't the next hot HC candidate we assume its a silly choice for HC... When in fact, every time we've tried the conventional way, it's failed miserably........
Think outside the box Jimmy. I like it.
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Browns to interview Rich Bisaccia for head coach position.
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I have a friend that is an Equipment Manager for the Stanford football team, at this point, wondering if we'll see his name come across the board as an interviewee.
Banner and Lombardi will interview everyone until they can find the right puppet.
They just have to nod their head in agreement just right for them.
i'll be a puppet for 9 million contract, and do one year and get axed. but i'm just a fan so...i'll probably make more after doing interviews and writing a book
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Ok, I'm not defending the interview process in general or this guy specifically.. I just think it's funny that because folks here have never heard of him and because he hasn't commanded a top 10 offense or defense and because he isn't the next hot HC candidate we assume its a silly choice for HC... When in fact, every time we've tried the conventional way, it's failed miserably........
Think outside the box Jimmy. I like it.
Actually I don't mind it. ST coaches is a place to showcase some real coaching. You have a lot of young men, new to the league who probably don't know how to play the positions, and you have a lot of turn over there. I just think Seely would be a good coach and he has the magical Lombardi ties.
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Browns to interview Rich Bisaccia for head coach position.
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YEEESSSSSSS!!
I have a novel thought, they might actually be interviewing him for another position but under the guise of being interviewed for the HC position. Even so, he as an asst. HC, so it's not like it's a huge leap to go from ST coordinator to HC.
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Banner and Lombardi will interview everyone until they can find the right puppet.
They just have to nod their head in agreement just right for them.
I don't think either one of them is really driving this bus. Haslam is at the helm on this one with Banner in the passenger seat. Lombardi isn't even in the vehicle.
Belichick has said that ST coaches are the best coaches. They have to pull guys together from everywhere and have them function as a unit. Best organizational skills.
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Belichick has said that ST coaches are the best coaches. They have to pull guys together from everywhere and have them function as a unit. Best organizational skills.
Harbaugh and Cower were special team coaches. That's just right off the head, I'm sure there's plenty more.
yeah they may have been, but they didn't go from ST to HC...thats just a silly decision to even consider him for HC...this whole search is just ridiculous and I have lost complete faith in this FO. Something tells me that the guy they wanted and they thought they could get flat out refused or they interviewed him and he didn't blow them away like they thought. So now they are trying to get cute and are grasping at straws under the guise of "doing due dilligence"
Actually, Harbaugh went from ST coach to DB coach to HC.......was never a coordinator of any kind. Cower began his career as a ST coach, but was a DC at the time of the Steelers hire.
I know squat about Rich, but the fact that he hasn't been a OC/DC is not a big deal to me. I don't see how he is any less qualified than any other non-HC experience candidate that we have interviewed. The guys with no prior experience have a rather high failure rate anyway so I don't think there is a pre-defined career path that they have to take to get a HC job.
Due to the odds of success/failure, I'm really hoping for Munch, but we are probably going to role the dice with one of the young up and comers.
J/C…
Looks like Mike Pettine may be getting a 2nd interview…..according to his daughter. It appears she may have closed her twitter account after she leaked the news. Dad might not have been happy leaking that info.
Interesting if true. Definitely would not have seen this one coming if hired.
Second Interview for Mike Pettine?
Image from his link:
"... its the browns.. but Hey".
"It's the browns but still pretty cool".... yep... attractive job...
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"It's the browns but still pretty cool".... yep... attractive job...
She must be reading our forums. How else would she know how bad we are?
j/c
You guys & gals are funny, Just bust a nut... either way!!!
I like all the crazy stuff being reported & the reaction from all of you
How about this crazy thought... All have seen HC turn into H/C G/M right???
How about our G/M turns into G/M H/C...???!!!
Now that is BOLD!!!
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Actually, Harbaugh went from ST coach to DB coach to HC.......was never a coordinator of any kind. Cower began his career as a ST coach, but was a DC at the time of the Steelers hire.
I know squat about Rich, but the fact that he hasn't been a OC/DC is not a big deal to me. I don't see how he is any less qualified than any other non-HC experience candidate that we have interviewed. The guys with no prior experience have a rather high failure rate anyway so I don't think there is a pre-defined career path that they have to take to get a HC job.
Due to the odds of success/failure, I'm really hoping for Munch, but we are probably going to role the dice with one of the young up and comers.
Harbaugh was never a ST coach, he was a QB coach with Raiders, then became HC of University of San Diego, then Stanford, then an NFL HC...alot more experience than that scrub from Dallas...i wouldn't want a single coach on Dallas staff
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Actually, Harbaugh went from ST coach to DB coach to HC.......was never a coordinator of any kind. Cower began his career as a ST coach, but was a DC at the time of the Steelers hire.
I know squat about Rich, but the fact that he hasn't been a OC/DC is not a big deal to me. I don't see how he is any less qualified than any other non-HC experience candidate that we have interviewed. The guys with no prior experience have a rather high failure rate anyway so I don't think there is a pre-defined career path that they have to take to get a HC job.
Due to the odds of success/failure, I'm really hoping for Munch, but we are probably going to role the dice with one of the young up and comers.
Harbaugh was never a ST coach, he was a QB coach with Raiders, then became HC of University of San Diego, then Stanford, then an NFL HC...alot more experience than that scrub from Dallas...i wouldn't want a single coach on Dallas staff
No, not that Harbaugh, the other one.
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general reply...
I think we should hire a bunch of these guys and have a competition
how about a reality show?
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general reply...
I think we should hire a bunch of these guys and have a competition
how about a reality show?
Reality shows are played out. How about a hyper realistic movie. We'll call it, "Draft Day".
Then there's Ross Harbaugh.
He's from Toledo, was a lifelong Browns fan- and teaches cello at "The U."
PUT HIM ON THE LIST!
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Then there's Ross Harbaugh.
He's from Toledo, was a lifelong Browns fan- and teaches cello at "The U."
PUT HIM ON THE LIST!
He was a lifelong Browns fan? Are you suggesting we hire a zombie? Because on behalf of Banner and Lombardi, we absolutely love that idea.
IS a lifelong Browns fan....
Good catch there.
LMAO!
______________________
"Coach- what was your motivation to start Weeden over Peyton today?"
"Braaaaaains...."
radioactive!
Anyone on here get an interview yet?
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If we're interviewing ST coaches can we pick up Brad Seely?
If you're ok with a 58 year old head coach when the season starts.
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If we're interviewing ST coaches can we pick up Brad Seely?
If you're ok with a 58 year old head coach when the season starts.
I would have no problem with that. Not that difficult to coach into your mid to late 60s and if you get 8-10 years out of a coach, that's amazing in the NFL today... heck in Cleveland if you get 3, it's amazing...
for what its worth...a little birdie has told me that we got a big time name ready to spring on everyone (probably after the last interviews?)...keep in mind its just a birdie but I thought it was still interesting.
Big time? Cowher - somebody who Haslam probably knows? Gruden who would love to turn the Browns around.?
Billick?
or just little bird poop
Clem, I'm on it, I'll track him down and get him into contact with our FO.
Interesting indeed. I just can't get on the "these guys are the dumbest people ever to run a franchise and have no plan to speak of" wagon yet. Well Haslam and Banner anyway, I have zero use for Lombardi. Idk, maybe i'm just naive, maybe not. We'll see soon enough.
You bringing up Billick got me thinking a bit. Everyone was so quick to connect McD to Lombardi's hip due to past working history, wouldn't the same connection be there for the NFLN guys? Other TV former coaches? Like, say, Mariucci, or as you said Billick, etal.
I haven't been able to shake the feeling that something was going on in the dark. Although I thought it was that either McD or Malzahn wasn't as dead as we were led to believe.
As I said in another thread. I'll be patient for the coaching search, draft, and camps. My patience ends on opening day.
Cowher?Gruden?Billick?
How about someone who has been coaching in the last 5 years?
I don't get the fascination with guys who are retired.
Yeah...I really hated the recent fire. But Haslam doesn't appear to me as a slacker. He seems to be a go getter ergo why "HE" had to go back to the business and get them out of trouble. Football like with many of us is a passion of his. I do think his firing of Chud had several things involved.
1. He was along with the ride in the choice selection of HC last season - probably he wanted Chip Kelly and when that went down he left if up to his football guy Banner.
2. He was never in love with the selection of Chud - he's the type of guy if it was his choice (love the choice) he would be more patient with him.
3. When its not his design and it struggles he will roll up his sleeves and take over to fix it. What I think just happened.
Justified or not when he rolls up his sleeves he gets positive results this is probably throughout his life especially in business.
So he isn't concerned this time about the structure...Owner...Banner as Pres. and Lombardi as GM. He's a go getter and I think he said - I ain't waiting for you guys to get this right - I'm going to get it done and you better like it n work with it or else sayonara...
Again this could be just an inside scoop of somebody privy of knowing that Haslam has made some personal calls to so n so - for all we know it could just some friendly advice...or its really to wow us with his answer to our HC to prominence!
j/c
Cleveland Browns coaching update: Adam Gase, Gus Malzahn, Dan Quinn and Josh McDaniels
Here are the some things I've heard about the Browns coaching search:
1. Gase might want to wait
The feeling in league circles is that Bob LaMonte, the agent for Broncos offensive coordinator Adam Gase, might want to wait a year before placing his 35-year-old client in a head coaching position. It's not that he doesn't think Gase is ready for the top job -- although I've had a few folks tell me they think he needs one more year as a coordinator. It's that LaMonte is fairly certain that Gase will have multiple head coaching offers next season, with several attractive options. He'll also have some leverage if Gase receives multiple offers. This year, it's down to only the Browns, and several of LaMonte's clients have recently been fired by the Browns, including Broncos director of pro personnel Tom Heckert and Eagles offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur. LaMonte also knows that the current front office is impatient and doesn't have time for a young coach to grow into the job. That doesn't mean the Browns won't be able to land Gase if they decide he's their man. It's just one of the things they'll have to contend with at the negotiating table.
2. Auburn's Gus Malzahn isn't expected to become a candidate
The Browns are probably intrigued by college football's "it'' coach Malzahn, but he's not expected to surface in this search. He's happy at Auburn and has no plans to leave. That's too bad for the Browns, because Malzahn has all the makings of an excellent head coach, including an innovative offensive mind and fantastic leadership skills.
3. The Browns still like Seattle defensive coordinator Dan Quinn
Word around the league is that the Browns were impressed with Quinn, 43, right from the start and still have him on their radar. He'll play the 49ers this weekend in the NFC Championship Game, and can be available as soon as Sunday night. If he advances, the Browns can conduct a second interview with him in the week before the Super Bowl. Quinn's defense ranks No. 1 in the NFL in several key categories, including total defense and points allowed. I get the sense he could get back in the mix if things don't work out with Gase.
4. Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels isn't expected to resurface in this search
A couple of national reports, including one by NFL Network's Albert Breer, have speculated that the Browns reach out to McDaniels again when the Patriots are eliminated from the playoffs and try to lure him here. McDaniels took himself out of the running, saying he loves in job in New England and wanted to stay put. A source told cleveland.com he pulled out when told he wasn't the frontrunner. Whatever the case, I'm told he won't be involved again this year. I've also been told by two league insiders that McDaniels was the Browns initial top target, while at least one has said that Gase was their man from the start. Perhaps they were tied for first.
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1. Gase might want to wait
The feeling in league circles is that Bob LaMonte, the agent for Broncos offensive coordinator Adam Gase, might want to wait a year before placing his 35-year-old client in a head coaching position. It's not that he doesn't think Gase is ready for the top job -- although I've had a few folks tell me they think he needs one more year as a coordinator. It's that LaMonte is fairly certain that Gase will have multiple head coaching offers next season, with several attractive options. He'll also have some leverage if Gase receives multiple offers. This year, it's down to only the Browns, and several of LaMonte's clients have recently been fired by the Browns, including Broncos director of pro personnel Tom Heckert and Eagles offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur. LaMonte also knows that the current front office is impatient and doesn't have time for a young coach to grow into the job. That doesn't mean the Browns won't be able to land Gase if they decide he's their man. It's just one of the things they'll have to contend with at the negotiating table.
Hah, I forgot about that!
So, Gase not only has his agent to listen to, but he has Heckert whom he can talk to directly about the guys running our show. Given that, I would be absolutely SHOCKED if he ended up coming year... especially when you look at the likelihood of having many more and better places to land next offseason.
I read that as how LaMonte plans to use circumstances as leverage in contract negotiations rather than just allow the Browns to have all the leverage (since there is but one job left).
I'm just going on the birdie...not my personal preference.
Gruden is the only one who excites me and that is because two years ago it was reported that he had been working on a new Fusion Offense of the College Spread/Pistol with NFL flavors to it as in not to get the QB killed!
Also I know his passion and his passion to bring the Browns to become once again relevant in the NFL...the others one I just included cause I would Consider them BIG NAME POWER GUYS to be hired as per the Birdie???
Outside of them do you know of any?
I read it that way, but also read it that LaMonte and Heckert both would know the inside scoop on dealing with Banner and whether or not going to work for him would be a good career move.
When you take the longer view and think about what his options will be like next season, it really doesn't look like a good idea for him to come here. Not at all.
I would think the Agent would be more for the contract not the decision of who to want to be a HC for??? As an agent the best deal is what makes his client the best $$$ and if the job is guaranteed $$$$ then he is doing his client a disservice by telling him to wait a year. What if he tears an Achilles tendon or ACL...lol
But if he does tell him not to consider the Browns job then he is doing that on behalf of his personal agenda not Gase. You never put of an achieved goal for the MAYBE's of tomorrow.
Shanahan is looking for a job
(no, not wanting him, but if we are talking big name power guys, then he has to be included)
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But if he does tell him not to consider the Browns job then he is doing that on behalf of his personal agenda not Gase. You never put of an achieved goal for the MAYBE's of tomorrow.
Not necessarily.... actually, not at all. It's in his client's best interest for him to get his client the biggest and best contract that he can, in a situation that sets him up for success.
It is an incredibly easy argument to make that that situation is NOT in Cleveland, and not when there are no other job openings with teams to bid against us for his services. He and his client have better leverage next year, and the situations available to him will undoubtedly be better next year as well.
Off that list, my order...
1. Malzahn
2. Quinn
3. Gase
8. McDaniels
I like Malzahn because he's fresh and innovative and would bring more life than the others.. plus he has HC experience at a big time program
I like Quinn because I still want to focus on defense and whoever we bring in is going to have to find good coordinators... I know he has talent in Seattle but those guys just fly around the field.. what they are doing transcends just having talent.... He will need offensive help.
I like Gase but it's hard to know how much is him and how much is Manning..... and the article is right, he may have his pick of 3 or 4 jobs next year.... or Manning could get hurt in week 2 and they could go 5-11 with Brock Osweiler and his name will drop out of everybody's search... who knows.
I still can't get behind the McDaniels thing.. just seems like he rubbed a lot of people the wrong way in Denver... we have a confidence problem in the locker room, I'm just guessing but there is some discontent with losing, a lot of frustration.. bringing in an abrasive personality (without Belichick to lead and keep him under control and without Brady to make him look like a genius) seems like a recipe for disaster to me.. could be totally wrong, but that's my take on it.
it's a valid point to consider, but there is also the other side.
there is no guarantee that he will be considered the hot-shot OC destined to be a HC after next year. Peyton could get injured and the Denver offense could struggle without him which would validate concerns that their offense was all him (whether it was true or not) and put Gase on the back-burner for another year. If it was a career-ending injury (which is not all that far-fetched considering his age/history), then he'd need to find another good situation to properly get his hype up again.
It also depends on what he thinks about the QB's coming out. If he has seen them and trusts that they are good, then he might be more willing to take the chance at turning around the Browns. If he's been hearing bad things or doesn't trust we'll be able to land the guy he likes, then he's less likely to come aboard.
Very valid possibilities, but I would say that you can't be worried about whether or not your current QB will get injured (or retire if they win the SB). You have to look at the situation as it is, and make your decisions based upon that.
On the flip side, he's in a perfect situation where he is at.
The way I see it, he's a first year OC and riding high. He probably is simply ecstatic to be in the position he's in, and probably doesn't feel any immediate need to prove himself as a HC. I'd bet that he's currently just enjoying the ride of being the OC for a team that is likely headed to the SB. I'd also bet that he probably doesn't currently have some burning desire to be the guy that turns around a losing franchise..... that sort of egotism seems to comes from guys that have already "been there, done that" as a HC.
Forgot about Shanahan...uggh I never was a big fan of his especially the 2nd time around.
Purple...There is no indication that Haslam is cheap with the Money as far as getting the best contract. I don't think he is going to let a low ball negotiation hold back from hiring the guy he thinks is right for the job...and its guaranteed...he did his duty for his client. I just think this is media people and us dawgs thinking too much into this as in AHA Gase is tied to Lamont there is friction there with the Browns hierarchy.
I don't think that is over-thinking things at all.... these are all legit things that anybody would look at and listen to when going for any job.
If you were thinking of interviewing for a job at a company and happened to know and work closely with two people familiar with that company, are you saying that it is over-thinking it to say that you would talk to them about what it is like to work for those people??? Sorry man, but that's just crazy talk. They are talking; book it.
As for the depth of Haslam's wallet - saying that as a blanket statement is ignoring the reality of things. Haslam isn't going to just offer up the world as if the money doesn't matter to him. He's still going to not spend more than he has to - that's the way negotiations go, and if there are no other open Head Coach jobs, Gase's agent doesn't have as much leverage to walk away from a HC job offer.
I get that you want to gloss over and ignore the reality of all of this as if everything is sunshine and roses, but that just isn't the case.
It isn't all doom and gloom, either.... it's just reality, and right now it is not in our favor in regards to Gase coming here. It just really isn't his best option.
Its hard to relate to this with real life correlations...cause there are only 32 possible jobs in the World. And its a tough chance to get one...all we were hearing last year was that surely Horton would be gone - well I think he got ONE Interview that was it??? You can ask them questions and absorb what is relevant to you but the final decision will be achieving a dream goal! I don't think anyone passes up the opportunity...as a first time HC. Hoping next year his opportunity will be better based on the advice of two people not in love with the Owner/FO. You take in the relevant info and make your decision.
JMHO
It's still a job. The process is the same. The decision is, empirically, the same - if it isn't a good fit or a better situation that what you are in now, you don't do it unless the money is simply just too good to say no.
And, just posting this because I thought it was funny:
Purp,
That just made my whole weekend!!!
jc
So gase may wait for next year becaue more attractive positiions will be open then? Really Where?
How in the hell can it be confirmed a better position will be available next year unless they are saying ANY position would be better than Cleveland and if that is their line of thought then screw him... let him wait and good luck to him.
What if Manning retires and Denver's O goes into tthe crapper then who is gonna come knocking? If it's me I strike when the iron is hot and not wait for a maybe shot next year.
My guess is that he will wait until their season is over, and he'll talk with Manning. If Manning doesn't retire, I would bet that he isn't leaving there until next season at the earliest. If Manning retires, then he will try to cash in while the iron is hot - assuming that we even offer him the gig.
This was his first season doing anything at the coordinator level in the NFL, he's still laying the groundwork for his career. Heck, it's pretty unheard of as it is that a 1st year coordinator is even getting talked to about being a HC.
Still like Quinn.
on the other hand, my brother in law is a Bills season ticket holder and just loves their guy who we interviewed.
Says his men will knock down walls for him.
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it's pretty unheard of as it is that a 1st year coordinator is even getting talked to about being a HC.
that's what happens when NFL teams start firing 7 coaches per year. You have to keep unearthing new candidates (or recycling old ones).
Sounds like LaMonte may be holding a little grudge...
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Sounds like LaMonte may be holding a little grudge...
He's made his commissions so I doubt he's holding grudge per se, and he would make a nice commission on any deal between Gase & the Browns. It's more likely that he's just tired of dealing with the sheer ineptitude that is so pervasive within this organization, and feels Gase has a shot at a job next year with a number of quality programs. If the Browns want Gase, they'll need to bend over to get him, which is why Quinn may be the more likely candidate. And that may not be a bad thing. I am still holding out hope that they at least interview Greg Roman to see what he brings to the party.
ehh,, maybe.
I think it comes back to who wants this job? We haven't heard from candidates or the Browns except for Haslams letter so we don't really have any way of knowing.
Time will tell I guess.
JC
You all know we are being snookered right?
In my best conspiracy theorist agenda:
JM is still the man and has been from day one.
Haslam hears the flak from the fans that this is the same backdoor crap we got with the Lombardi hire and no real search was ever done for that rising star / great coach as promised.
In reposne to this a wink / wink nod/ nod agreement is reached with JM to announce he is pulling his name from consideration.
Now we start "interviewing" evey name we can think of,not to find a HC mind you but to appease the masss and trick them into thinking... hey these guys really are looking at many options as possible.
After the superbowl WE go back to JM and convince him to take the gig because WE determined he was the right man for the job when stacked up against all thoe candidates we talked to.
there that should get some folks pissd at me...
nobody would be pissed at you, because it wouldn't even be surprising if it happened.
well we did bring him in for a 2nd interview...we must have been impressed to do so. I can see him being our fall back guy (Bill's DC)
texas...could be a McD deal all the way...which Obviously would be a Lombardi choice. When he dropped out which in NFL speak means he wasn't the first choice that spelled out that Lombardi was not pulling much weight - good thing ? or bad thing? But if its a McD coming to the rescue then possibly this was all constructed by Lombardi so it looked like it wasn't a done deal like all (I know I was) were saying...lol
where's Mac?
For all any of us know, you could be spot on
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where's Mac?
out trying to recruit a HC....
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After the superbowl WE go back to JM and convince him to take the gig because WE determined he was the right man for the job when stacked up against all thoe candidates we talked to.
If he comes in.. and blows it bad.... do the fans get pissed because we fire him after one season or get pissed because we give him 2 more years...
He seems like a guy that people may not love much . So would it matter that much ?
Doesn't matter who they bring in as long as he wins... And he must be able to take the team to the play-offs...
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If he comes in.. and blows it bad.... do the fans get pissed because we fire him after one season or get pissed because we give him 2 more years...
We're Cleveland, people will be pissed about it regardless of how it would unfolds lol.
NRTU, just posting this about Rex Ryan's contract extension in NY.
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/...tract-extensionSo, the incentive-laden contract wouldn't work, huh?
And no, I had nothing to do with the contract or the details. Just pointing out that my idea wasn't as crazy as some might think. Again, I'm ahead of the curve.
*pats self on back*
Deisle, I feel like there's no WAY they fire a coach after just one season ever again.
jc
Maybe counter-productive as I also posted in the "other teams tracker" thread, but since we interviewed him for HC . . .
Report: Mike Munchak to meet with Steelers about offensive line job
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Again, I'm ahead of the curve.
Be careful about curves...they keep curving until you are right back where you started.
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On the other hand, my brother in law is a Bills season ticket holder and just loves their guy who we interviewed.
Says his men will knock down walls for him.
I'm liking Pettine a lot more than other candidates, especially Gase. Gase is soooo inexperienced; does he even know how to run a TC?
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Deisle, I feel like there's no WAY they fire a coach after just one season ever again.
Although very unlikely cause it would make them look bad, or as some would say, worse... but I wouldn't rule anything out here in Browns Town!
Especially seeing our next coach is 99% likely to have no head coaching experience at all.
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I'm liking Pettine a lot more than other candidates, especially Gase. Gase is soooo inexperienced; does he even know how to run a TC?
He's been an NFL coach in some capacity for 11 years.. I'm sure he's learned some things...
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I'm liking Pettine a lot more than other candidates, especially Gase. Gase is soooo inexperienced; does he even know how to run a TC?
He's been an NFL coach in some capacity for 11 years.. I'm sure he's learned some things...
no, he's only been in actual coaching duties since 2007. His work prior to that was in a staff assistant role - some assisting offensive coaches, once (for two years) as a scouting assistant. In these roles, "assistant" can be read as "gopher", "guy who collects footballs and gear", and/or "guy who cues up practice films".
Seven years, including this one, as a coach.
The good thing about Seattles defense is that it's so weird that we actually have the personel to run it. Phil, Ahtyba and Desmond will be on the field as 3 down linemen. Watch Red Bryant of Seattle, Desmond could defintely fill in his role. Jabaal and Paul could play LEO, because it's basically like a 3-4 OLB. Except, they'd rush the passer more than they drop back in coverage. We'd use Mingo the way Seattle uses Bruce Irving at the SAM spot.
I find myself liking Dan Quinn more and more I read about him and when I've watched Seattle.
Gus Bradley was safe and relied upon the talent in Seattle. Quinn maximizes the talent there with creative looks and he trusts the secondary to hold up in more man-to-man situations. He's also very good at working with the DL individually.
Gus Bradley always did soft zone coverages against 3rd & 5 or longer. Quinn doesn't have the defense giving the opposition easy yardage. He makes them earn every bit for the most part. That team's weaknesses last year have been eliminated, ie: TE's down the middle, screen passes, 3rd down play calling, etc.
I'm on the bandwagon. A common theme I've noticed from guys the FO they've talked to. They want sacks and turnovers above all else.
If I wanted to emulate a team , it would be Seattle from top to bottom
No doubt. They even have a killer stadium!
yea, have you noticed how close the first row of seats seem to the field? and the way the stadium rises?
how can it NOT be loud? that must be awesome home games for the hawks, knowing the fans truly do make a difference on D.
j/c:
I have no idea who we are going to hire.
I don't really believe the story about Gase's agent for two reasons:
--There are only 32 jobs in the NFL. We were all worried about losing Horton this year because he was a hot commodity. How did that turn out? We have seen the same thing in the past. Guys like Russ Grimm, Rob Ryan, Zimmer, etc were all set to be hired, but never were. It would be a risky gamble to wait for more bidderes.
--Secondly, I don't think the Brown's gig is that bad. We have a ton of cap room. We have some young talent. We are sitting pretty in the draft.......much better than anyone else. Furthermore, I think the new coach has some security, because we aren't going to be firing the next HC really quick after this past media relations nightmare.
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jc
Maybe counter-productive as I also posted in the "other teams tracker" thread, but since we interviewed him for HC . . .
Report: Mike Munchak to meet with Steelers about offensive line job
According to Bill Polian, he's the last guy that's a worthy head coaching candidate (he mentioned on Thursday's PTI). While Polian isn't the smartest guy in the world, I value his opinion.
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I read that as how LaMonte plans to use circumstances as leverage in contract negotiations rather than just allow the Browns to have all the leverage (since there is but one job left).
That is what agents are hired to do, get their client the best contract possible....not the best job. It's the coach who decides which job is for him. Agents don't care about the job....only the contract and the leverage they can apply. It's how thay make their money.
Nothing wrong with that. They aren't hired to make the decisions. They are hired to put their client in the best possible position as far as the terms of the contract are concerned.
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Deisle, I feel like there's no WAY they fire a coach after just one season ever again.
They won't because of what it means for them..but it puts them up against the wall..because if the new guy sucks...and would deserve to be let go, they have a excuse.
It's one reason why they're going through a lot of names even though they have one target in mind..they have to find the right one.
If we hire Quinn, Jadaveon Clowney becomes a real possibility. The uncovered DE in the 4-3 under needs to be a monster. He has to dominate his 1 on 1 matchups in all pass rushing situations while also being the primary contain on outside runs. The SAM in that defense suits Mingo. You need to be athletic enough to stick with TEs. This scheme would benefit him because he'd be 1 on 1 with guys. Just spitballing what the defense would look like:
Clowney / Sheard
Taylor / Hughes
Rubin / Winn
Bryant (yes, he would work in this scheme because he's be asked to do similar things as a 3/4 DE) / Kruger
SAM: Mingo
MIKE: DQ
WILL: Robertson
I hate the contract that we gave Kruger, but I want the best defensive players we have out on the field. Don't just plug Kruger somewhere if he doesn't have the athleticism to do it. That's what bad teams do and get exploited for.
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Again, I'm ahead of the curve.
Be careful about curves...they keep curving until you are right back where you started.
When I started, I was already ahead of the curve.
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Don't just plug Kruger somewhere if he doesn't have the athleticism to do it. That's what bad teams do and get exploited for.
That would never happen to us.
One guy i was hoping we would atleast bring in for a look was Vic Fangio dc of the niners. I am blown away with how disciplined yet aggressive that team is playing especially the backers. I really havent been following the hc search tomuch so not sure if he is on their list or not but Fangio was a guy many around here wanted the browns to hire when Butch was canned.
Report (although from Mary Kay) states Gase leaning toward staying with Denver, even if he gets an offer:
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/01/denver_oc_adam_gase_leaning_to.html Quote:
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Broncos offensive coordinator Adam Gase is leaning toward remaining in Denver and not taking the Browns head coaching job if it's offered, a league source told cleveland.com.
Gase, who's expected to interview with the Browns after he's eliminated from the playoffs, loves his job in Denver and relishes the idea of spending a second season as Peyton Manning's offensive coordinator.
The Broncos will face the Patriots in the AFC Championship Sunday afternoon in Denver, and the Browns can interview him as early as Sunday night or Monday if the Broncos are eliminated. If he advances to the Super Bowl, the Browns will have to determine if they want to wait until Feb. 3 to interview.
The Browns like multiple candidates they've already interviewed, including Seattle defensive coordinator Dan Quinn and Bills defensive coordinator Mike Pettine. They're also interviewing Cowboys special teams coordinator Rich Bisaccia Saturday, according to Fox Sports' Jay Glazer. Bisaccia comes highly recommended from former Super Bowl-winning coach Jon Gruden, who's a friend of Browns owner Jimmy Haslam.
Browns offensive coordinator Norv Turner, who's close to taking the Vikings coordinator job, also hired Bisaccia as special teams coach in 2011 in San Diego and gave him the added duties of assistant head coach in 2012.
Word in league circles is that agent Bob LaMonte has been telling folks that Gase, 35, might need another season as coordinator before taking a head job. What's more, he thinks Gase will have multiple opportunities next year, especially after one more season with Manning, who's playing the best ball of his career under Gase.
Question is, will the Browns still conduct the interview if they get the sense that Gase is having reservations? At least one league source questions if the interview will actually even take place.
The Browns are not heading into the interview with the idea that Gase is their top target, a source said. They have plenty of things to consider too, including the fact that Gase is young and has been a coordinator for only one year. He'd have to beat out some of the top candidates they've already interviewed to receive an offer. Quinn and Pettine have been apparently gaining steam in recent days.
So Gase is certainly not a slam-dunk from either side at this point.
If the Browns do interview Gase, they're confident they can sell him on the merits of the job. The Browns have the No. 4 and No. 26s pick in the first round and three picks in he first 35. They also have five selections in the top 83, and five Pro Bowlers providing they re-sign potential free agents T.J. Ward and Alex Mack.
The Browns also have Brian Hoyer coming back from his torn ACL and will have a chance to land one of the top two or three quarterbacks in the draft, including Texas A&M's Johnny Manziel, Central Florida's Blake Bortles and Louisville's Teddy Bridgewater.
But with Manning expected to play again next season, Gase could enhance his status as one of the rising stars in the game. Manning set career-highs this year in TD passes (55) and yards (5,477) and has praised Gase.
"I still think (Manning') young and playing well," Broncos executive vice president of football operations John Elway told reporters on Thursday, via USA Today Sports. "Having been a football player before, when you leave this game, you want to leave it on your last leg (and) try not to leave anything on the table. And so anybody that's a competitor — that's the way they want to leave the game. I was just fortunate to be on two great football teams and be able to win two world championships when my last leg broke."
Elway also loves Gase and has encouraged him to stay.
"I wish I could've played for him, yeah. He's so bright," Elway said.
We "possibly" could be missing out on others as other teams start to gobble up coordinator and etc positions, for nothing. Something to think about. It makes sense for Gase too as we'd be the only team conducting an interview with him. Next year, he could have a shot of more openeings. If he was looking to move into a HC position - I think he was a bit stupid to delay the interviews.
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I find myself liking Dan Quinn more and more I read about him and when I've watched Seattle.
This is where I am at. I have no interest in Gase and am happy to hear reports he's leaning toward staying in Denver.
Plus, this is personal preference and not a requirement for success...but I want a guy in the mold of Harbaugh on the sidelines....a guy with some fire.
Also, if they are looking for any last minute candidates, I'd be talking to Fangio and Tomsula from SF.
Never wanted Gase, Pettine doesn't really thrill me so Quinn does seem to be the best outta the bunch, what bunch is left. Seattle's defense was playing with great attitude and passion and was/is a tight unit. Plus he just looks like a guy I wouldn't want to get an ear full from lol.
Quinn! Quinn! Quinn! Quinn!
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Well not sure if jackass is a real football argument...lol
Just a quick way to describe having an overinflated ego. Those two thought they were walking on water, when they were actually drowning.
Mangini did more to cripple this franchise than any regime we've had since '99. He was a clown who desperately wanted to be Bill Belichick. I'm consistently baffled by how so many posters romanticize the guy.
When I hear McDaniel's name, I think of two things - running around like a jackass (sorry, it's the best description available) after beating the Patriots, and trading up to take Tebow in the first round.
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Mangini did more to cripple this franchise than any regime we've had since '99. He was a clown who desperately wanted to be Bill Belichick. I'm consistently baffled by how so many posters romanticize the guy.
Really? You are that board and need to reinstate this debate. You haven't had enough!
Holmgren not replacing Mangini first year was the real mistake. Blowing it up Holmgren's second year set the franchise back. He wasted two years. It took Holmgren and Schurmur two seasons to duplicate Mangini's first year record. To top it off, Holmgren thought Weeden was a franchise QB over RG iii. How some posters romanticize Holmgren is the real puzzle.
Mangini did more to cripple this franchise than any regime we've had since '99 
sorry no discussion for you...in my football nazi voice...lol
That was a ludicrous statement.
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To top it off, Holmgren thought Weeden was a franchise QB over RG iii. How some posters romanticize Holmgren is the real puzzle.
in fairness, that is not true, they tried to trade up for RGIII. Washington was willing to give up more. You don't try to trade up for RGIII if you think Weeden was thought of over him.
That said, I agree with your defense of Mangini over the Holmgren fiasco. I still say Eric was the only one so far to install a TRUE 5 year plan, He made the brave HARD choices to cut out cancer players and build from scratch with team guys. yes we went backward first, but I believe that was partially expected. Eric got blasted for trading back and not taking Sanchez, the Sanchez evaluation looks pretty good now. Eric's biggest mistake was asking for too much power biting off more than he could chew. He should have just been the HC, not HC/GM.
I think if he had been given the five year build, we would be in pretty nice shape today. dissaplined, playoff contender, respectable.
JMHO
Anytime Mangini comes up, there's a small handful of people who pop up with the same two defenses:
- he instilled discipline (which he didn't, really)
- Look at Holmgren and Heckert! They were bad, too!
I'm not looking to reinstate any debate, as there really isn't one as far as I'm concerned, nor should there be. The guy was an abysmal failure, and those failures were his own doing.
Also...why do people still view not getting RG3 as a grave error? We dodged a bullet on that one.
I think the guy is a good coach/coordinator. He might even be a decent HC given the situation.
This present stench (since 99) is more about this organization than HC abilities of most of the men who have been chewed up by this organization.
- he instilled discipline (which he didn't, really)
Really you should stay out of any discussion of Mangini which basically is you hating that anyone states something in the realm of good about it. But man if you have any credibility you are losing it fast with ridiculous statements like that... I don't care if you like him or not no biggee but the fact you claim he didn't bring discipline to this team is an Ignorant statement...sorry it just is.
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Report (although from Mary Kay) states Gase leaning toward staying with Denver, even if he gets an offer:
I never particularly cared for him anyway. I don't think they'll make him an offer, but they probably want to interview him. I really don't think they'll make him an offer.
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Quinn! Quinn! Quinn! Quinn!
Yes! Sign him for five years and give him five staying the course you've set for the organization!
... they have a course...right?
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- he instilled discipline (which he didn't, really)
Really you should stay out of any discussion of Mangini which basically is you hating that anyone states something in the realm of good about it. But man if you have any credibility you are losing it fast with ridiculous statements like that... I don't care if you like him or not no biggee but the fact you claim he didn't bring discipline to this team is an Ignorant statement...sorry it just is.
First of all - as I've said before, you should probably watch it with the insults. You can dish it out, but you can't take it.
You're very quick to belittle others and label them as ignorant, yet you cry like a little girl at any perceived slight.
Secondly...where was this discipline, so obvious that you'd have to be ignorant to say otherwise?
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Report (although from Mary Kay) states Gase leaning toward staying with Denver, even if he gets an offer:
I never particularly cared for him anyway. I don't think they'll make him an offer, but they probably want to interview him. I really don't think they'll make him an offer.
From what I've read, he's not talking about it at all until the season for the Broncos is over.
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Report (although from Mary Kay) states Gase leaning toward staying with Denver, even if he gets an offer:
I never particularly cared for him anyway. I don't think they'll make him an offer, but they probably want to interview him. I really don't think they'll make him an offer.
From what I've read, he's not talking about it at all until the season for the Broncos is over.
No doubt that Gase isn't going to say anything until after the Broncos are out of the playoffs. That could be as soon as tomorrow.
But, until such time as an offer is reported to be made to him, I don't believe that an offer will be made.
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- he instilled discipline (which he didn't, really)
Really you should stay out of any discussion of Mangini which basically is you hating that anyone states something in the realm of good about it. But man if you have any credibility you are losing it fast with ridiculous statements like that... I don't care if you like him or not no biggee but the fact you claim he didn't bring discipline to this team is an Ignorant statement...sorry it just is.
First of all - as I've said before, you should probably watch it with the insults. You can dish it out, but you can't take it.
You're very quick to belittle others and label them as ignorant, yet you cry like a little girl at any perceived slight.
Secondly...where was this discipline, so obvious that you'd have to be ignorant to say otherwise?
I think it is wise you let it go. Mangini regime ended years ago. All you want to do is create another hate topic. Why? Isn't Banner/Lombardi agenda enough?
If the Bronco's make it to the SB... and we wait two more weeks for Gase and then he decides to pass on interviewing for the job.....
I hope we rule him out all together before the SB.
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If the Bronco's make it to the SB... and we wait two more weeks for Gase and then he decides to pass on interviewing for the job.....
If Browns hire a HC today, it makes it better than a couple weeks because....Why?
Really! What, are we missing on all the top assistant coaches? Teams are hiring Browns prior coaches.
This is the coach we hope will be in Cleveland for several years. Personally, I hope they make an exhausted attempt interviewing every last person. Since they are not competing with anyone, it makes no sense to hurry.
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If the Bronco's make it to the SB... and we wait two more weeks for Gase and then he decides to pass on interviewing for the job.....
Who will care? Of course, the mouthpieces on radio and TV will yuk it up, but it'll make no difference.
I actually think that the Browns have already decided against Gase, but since they're the only team without a HC, they'll wait. I think it's why they continue to interview potential candidates.
If a potential candidate decides to take some other job then they weren't the candidate they wanted anyway.
The Browns will get the candidate that they want and I really don't think they're going to be bullied or prodded into deciding earlier than they feel comfortable with making it. If it takes 2 weeks after the Super Bowl, they'll wait that long to make the decision. If they decide to make it after a single interview after the games on Sunday, that's when they'll make it.
Here's to hoping that they make the right choice.
The Browns hired Chudzinski (Jan 11, 2013) less than 2 weeks after firing Shurmur (Dec 31, 2012). Coincidentally, Shurmur was hired (Jan 13, 2011) 10 days after Mangini was fired (Jan 3, 2011). Mangini was hired (Jan 8, 2009) 10 days after Crennel was fired (Dec 29, 2008).
Personally, I want them to spend some time on this decision and to take as long as they need to. I want them 100% sure they want this person coaching their team, without any doubts whatsoever.
that doesn't sound like the candidate they want,
that sounds like the candidate who didn't turn them down, THEN try to spin it saying this is the candidate they wanted all along.
isn't that the same thing that happened last year?
I don't care if the candidate turned them down. I don't think they have any preconceived notions about who their ideal candidate is. They're simply interviewing coaches that have expressed an interest in the job and determining if they like that candidate or not.
To be sure, it's also a way for prospective candidates, whether they are hired or not, to interview the Browns organization. I'm sure that some will go through with interviews without any inclination that they will get hired, but they'll do it for no other reason than to familiarize themselves with what an NFL head coaching search is like. To find out what kind of questions they can expect to see if they interview for other teams at some other point in the future.
That's not to say that each team will ask the same questions or talk about the same things, but these candidates will have some additional knowledge about how it proceeds to help them in any such future interviews (if any) that they may have.
i understand.
but right now, it doesn't seem like we are in the typical situation.
so if we wait til after the superbowl, and we STILL don't have a HC, what does that say? that we are being careful? or that nobody we targeted wants the job?
all the other teams didn't seem to have much of a problem finding the guy they wanted. even detroit, who had caldwell as the back up if whisenhut didn't take it.
i'm just concerned. i'm not gonna put too much worry about not finding a coach after the playoffs games sunday. but if we are still looking weeks after the superbowl, then there is a serious problem.
the longer we wait, the longer the HC has to put together his staff, talk to the players, get ready for the draft, go over the game film of last season, and talk about what players he wants to keep/get rid of/sign.
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- he instilled discipline (which he didn't, really)
Really you should stay out of any discussion of Mangini which basically is you hating that anyone states something in the realm of good about it. But man if you have any credibility you are losing it fast with ridiculous statements like that... I don't care if you like him or not no biggee but the fact you claim he didn't bring discipline to this team is an Ignorant statement...sorry it just is.
First of all - as I've said before, you should probably watch it with the insults. You can dish it out, but you can't take it.
You're very quick to belittle others and label them as ignorant, yet you cry like a little girl at any perceived slight.
Secondly...where was this discipline, so obvious that you'd have to be ignorant to say otherwise?
I think it is wise you let it go. Mangini regime ended years ago. All you want to do is create another hate topic. Why? Isn't Banner/Lombardi agenda enough?
Create another hate topic? What the hell are you talking about?
We're almost done here, anyway. All that's left is for someone to cite the drastic cut down in penalties as evidence of Mangini instilling discipline, and then I will post the stats showing this is a myth, at which point the argument will die off with something like 'Let's just drop it' or 'Agree to disagree'.
We've hired and fired TWO head coaches since Mangini left...who cares what he did or didn't do?
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We've hired and fired TWO head coaches since Mangini left...who cares what he did or didn't do?
Apparently a lot of people. Any time it's pointed out that he was a bum, someone comes along to defend him.
I really don't understand it.
My only point at the outset was that we dodged a bullet when McDaniels pulled his name from the running. We've picked from the Belichick tree too many times. It doesn't work.
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Report (although from Mary Kay) states Gase leaning toward staying with Denver, even if he gets an offer:
I never particularly cared for him anyway. I don't think they'll make him an offer, but they probably want to interview him. I really don't think they'll make him an offer.
From what I've read, he's not talking about it at all until the season for the Broncos is over.
No doubt that Gase isn't going to say anything until after the Broncos are out of the playoffs. That could be as soon as tomorrow.
But, until such time as an offer is reported to be made to him, I don't believe that an offer will be made.
So if he's not talking and the Browns aren't talking, how would MKC know anything?
There is one guy,, one that we know, one that we all pretty much like when he was here. I think they should speak with Brad Seeley..
Just for fun, check this out
http://www.cleveland.com/budshaw/index.ssf/2014/01/cleveland_browns_3.html#incart_river_default
Seely is a fave of mine. Not sure as a HC, but he is a coach who gets it done IMO. Right now, we are so bold I can hardly stand it. Assumption mustbe that The Chosen One isn't merely a leftover and also has a stringer with some other guys attached to coach. But names are falling by the wayside. I see more bad outcomes than good potentially.
Normally I'd be rooting for Denver (can't believe I'm saying that after the late 80s!) and Seattle (sick of Kapernick), but I. Want those two out to hopefully end our search this week.
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Report (although from Mary Kay) states Gase leaning toward staying with Denver, even if he gets an offer:
I never particularly cared for him anyway. I don't think they'll make him an offer, but they probably want to interview him. I really don't think they'll make him an offer.
From what I've read, he's not talking about it at all until the season for the Broncos is over.
No doubt that Gase isn't going to say anything until after the Broncos are out of the playoffs. That could be as soon as tomorrow.
But, until such time as an offer is reported to be made to him, I don't believe that an offer will be made.
So if he's not talking and the Browns aren't talking, how would MKC know anything?
There is one guy,, one that we know, one that we all pretty much like when he was here. I think they should speak with Brad Seeley..
Just for fun, check this out
http://www.cleveland.com/budshaw/index.ssf/2014/01/cleveland_browns_3.html#incart_river_default
I think that Brad Seeley would be a great head coach. Unfortunately, it won't be here. (well .... maybe ... depending upon how many times we changes head coaches in the next decade or so)
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We've hired and fired TWO head coaches since Mangini left...who cares what he did or didn't do?
It takes some a little longer than others to figure it out!
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We've hired and fired TWO head coaches since Mangini left...who cares what he did or didn't do?
It takes some a little longer than others to figure it out!
Right on schedule.
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i understand.
but right now, it doesn't seem like we are in the typical situation.
so if we wait til after the superbowl, and we STILL don't have a HC, what does that say? that we are being careful? or that nobody we targeted wants the job?
Let me ask it this way: Why should the Browns care what it says to the media, to the fans, or even to the candidates?
These jobs are an opportunity of a lifetime. They don't come often and few people get more than one shot at the brass ring. If you're a candidate and remove yourself from consideration, that speaks volumes more about you than anything it says about the Browns.
As for the fans and the media, they shouldn't matter one bit in making the decision at all.
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all the other teams didn't seem to have much of a problem finding the guy they wanted. even detroit, who had caldwell as the back up if whisenhut didn't take it.
Uh huh. Detroit stinks as bad - or worse - than the Browns. Say what you want about Stafford - in my estimation he's a failure. They had a HOF running back and arguably the best of all time, leave the NFL because he said the Lions weren't trying to win games.
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i'm just concerned. i'm not gonna put too much worry about not finding a coach after the playoffs games sunday. but if we are still looking weeks after the superbowl, then there is a serious problem.
Why? What happens in that time which should concern the head coach or the players?
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the longer we wait, the longer the HC has to put together his staff, talk to the players, get ready for the draft, go over the game film of last season, and talk about what players he wants to keep/get rid of/sign.
There's plenty of time to do all that. The only viable concern would be about assembling his staff. There could be candidates for those jobs that might take jobs elsewhere, but it shouldn't be too big of a concern.
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So if he's not talking and the Browns aren't talking, how would MKC know anything?
I'm not sure that she does know anything. If I were to hazard a guess, she's speculating like everyone else.
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There is one guy,, one that we know, one that we all pretty much like when he was here. I think they should speak with Brad Seeley.
I wouldn't be opposed to it, if for no other reason than to pick his brain.
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Just for fun, check this out
http://www.cleveland.com/budshaw/index.ssf/2014/01/cleveland_browns_3.html#incart_river_default
Not sure that I should put any more stock in Bud Shaw's comments (or Scott Fujita's) than Mary Kay's.
I don't think any of them has their own money on the line.
Mike McCoy turned down many opportunities to even interview for a head coach position before interviewing for, and taking the Chargers job. He waited for the right opportunity.
I think that it's better to wait for the right opportunity than to ruin your career by taking a horrible situation.
This job is seen as toxic by some. Even in a profession where few opportunities exist, it makes more sense to some to wait for a situation that has everything you want as far as front office, ownership, and so on, then to jump into a bad situation. When a team has fired 4 head coaches in 7 years, no matter the reasons, and changes in ownership, that has to play into a prospective head coach's consideration of the job.
I don't know why people act like these jobs don't come around often. There's around 4 openings per year it seems.
How many head coaching candidates have said the Brown's job is toxic? May I see their quotes, please?
All I know is that the majority of this board--and probably the local media---are going to hate whoever the Browns hire as the next head coach.
We will hear from posters that the Browns settled for so and so.
Or, we'll hear that so and so was the only guy who would take the job.
We will hear how the Browns picked w/someone w/not enough experience, or-----he is just another retread that has been fired for a reason.
The majority are not interested in playing fair. It's an all-out hate fest where logic and reason are not welcome participants.
I think it's toxic.. I don't need a story to tell me. It's my opinion.
And yes, I think no matter who they choose, people aren't going to love it.
If you notice, there wasn't one candidate that anyone stood up for and had a crowd follow along. Nobody stood out. Not to me anyway.
So I'm bound to be disappointed no matter who they choose.
But I'm also open to changing my mind due to their actions.. NOT THEIR WORDS.
This front office and Owner have proven to me that they aren't to be trusted. I'm not telling you not to trust them, I'm saying I don't trust them.. you do as you wish.
And there will be some singing their praises and talking them up and believing every little tidbit the FO says about them as if it were gospel.
They'll defend the guy (or gal - who knows?) til the cows come how because Banner & Lombardi say so.
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And there will be some singing their praises and talking them up and believing every little tidbit the FO says about them as if it were gospel.
They'll defend the guy (or gal - who knows?) til the cows come how because Banner & Lombardi say so.
LOL,, I doubt Lombardi says anything in public again
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Mike McCoy turned down many opportunities to even interview for a head coach position before interviewing for, and taking the Chargers job. He waited for the right opportunity.
Or maybe family factors helped him to decide. He interviewed in Chicago, Arizona, Philly, Buffalo & San Diego. Quite honestly, if I had those choices, I would probably have selected San Diego too.
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I think that it's better to wait for the right opportunity than to ruin your career by taking a horrible situation.
The 'right' opportunity may never come. You take the opportunities when they're facing you or you don't. Sometimes, as in McCoy's instance, you have multiple opportunities and have to select from one.
For instance, I had a couple of opportunities when I decided to move for work. I had offers for a job in two different places. Where I am is one of them, the other was in Albuquerque, New Mexico. If I were the only person to consider, I would have probably taken New Mexico. As it turned out, I chose to move further away and chose New York. I jokingly tell people that "I chose poorly."
I traded warmer weather and lots of sunshine for colder weather with clouds, rain and snow.
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This job is seen as toxic by some.
You might be right, but I suspect that that perception is driven by the media and not problems in the front office. Prospective candidates that have developed that perception aren't the ones that I want as the head coach of the Browns anyway.
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Even in a profession where few opportunities exist, it makes more sense to some to wait for a situation that has everything you want as far as front office, ownership, and so on, then to jump into a bad situation.
Again, the media driven perception reigns. It didn't keep Norv Turner from accepting a job as the OC. It didn't keep Ray Horton from accepting a job as the DC. The fact is, they got fired because they didn't get the job done. When they hired Chudzinski, a 4-12 or 5-11 season isn't what they envisioned.
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When a team has fired 4 head coaches in 7 years, no matter the reasons, and changes in ownership, that has to play into a prospective head coach's consideration of the job.
Undoubtedly it does. Bringing in a HC and firing him after one season will too. But, to me, it says that they aren't going to accept losing. They're willing to accept the criticism for making the mistake of hiring Chudzinski too eagerly, probably because he could bring in 'respected coaches' Turner & Horton with him. I suspect that they envisioned that Turner and Horton would help Chudzinski more than they did. This time, they're not going to be pressured into making any premature judgments and right now, they have all that pressure off them, no matter what is written or said about them in the media, uttered by the fans or anything else.
Yeah, I actually blame Turner and Horton more for Chudzinski's firing than the HC himself. If I were to guesstimate, I would say that Turner and/or Horton had more of a conflict with the front office than Chudzinski did but the front office couldn't fire the coordinators and bring in their own guys. It just isn't done that way. The HC brings in his assistants, not the front office.
Since we're speculating, let me propose this 'what if' for you to consider. Turner and Horton wanted out because of a conflict with the front office and tanked the season to perpetuate their departure (and Chudzinski's too) as quickly as possible?
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I don't know why people act like these jobs don't come around often. There's around 4 openings per year it seems.
Usually more than 4 of them, but there are more candidates than 4 vying for the jobs. Candidates from previous NFL head coaches, their coordinators and assistants, plus the ranks of college head coaches are vying for these jobs. The opportunity may present itself twice. It eventually did for Crennel but it took decades for him to get considered for a head coaching job and it was the lowly Browns that eventually offered him one.
This plays out throughout the NFL. How long did Bruce Arians have to wait for his shot? How about Tom Coughlin? John Fox? Pete Carroll? These guys built up resumes for decades for an opportunity.
If I were to guesstimate, I would say that Turner and/or Horton had more of a conflict with the front office than Chudzinski did but the front office couldn't fire the coordinators and bring in their own guys
I've been wondering this same thing ever since this happened. I'm wondering if chud got canned because his loyalty was too great. I really think if he had gotten rid of one of these guys that he may still be here. would that have made any difference though? is he really HC material to begin with?
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How many head coaching candidates have said the Brown's job is toxic? May I see their quotes, please?
All I know is that the majority of this board--and probably the local media---are going to hate whoever the Browns hire as the next head coach.
We will hear from posters that the Browns settled for so and so.
Or, we'll hear that so and so was the only guy who would take the job.
We will hear how the Browns picked w/someone w/not enough experience, or-----he is just another retread that has been fired for a reason.
The majority are not interested in playing fair. It's an all-out hate fest where logic and reason are not welcome participants.
Oh, I agree with this 100%. Get ready to take the arrows though. You know they're coming at you.
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I think it's toxic.. I don't need a story to tell me. It's my opinion.
And yes, I think no matter who they choose, people aren't going to love it.
If you notice, there wasn't one candidate that anyone stood up for and had a crowd follow along. Nobody stood out. Not to me anyway.
So I'm bound to be disappointed no matter who they choose.
But I'm also open to changing my mind due to their actions.. NOT THEIR WORDS.
This front office and Owner have proven to me that they aren't to be trusted. I'm not telling you not to trust them, I'm saying I don't trust them.. you do as you wish.
Fair enough. You don't trust them and you won't like anyone that they bring in. They could land YOUR #1 candidate (whoever that might be) and you'd be angry about it.
So, you think that Randy Lerner could be trusted? He simply didn't care about the team. You want Holmgren back in charge with Heckert & Shurmur tagging along? What paragons of virtue they turned out to be.
I think it has more to do with that none of these coaches are inspiring in the least. Granted Chud had a short resume, but it was pretty successful. OC at Miami when they had the best offense ever of any college football team, OC of the Browns when we had a 10-6 season. Really laid the groundwork for the Panther's offense. Gase doesn't have the resume that Chud has, but is under the Saban tree which is interesting. And Quinn runs a 4-3 considering we just heavily invested in the 3-4 it's worrying that we would make a switch so quickly.
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I don't know why people act like these jobs don't come around often. There's around 4 openings per year it seems.
I believe Gase never gets this big an opportunity to call his shots. Him and Lamont basically have Haslam over a barrel. Lamont can really make Haslam/Banner look bad. This is why I believe Haslam/Banner have diligently kept the interview process going. When close, we will hear they narrow it to two or three candidates.
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And there will be some singing their praises and talking them up and believing every little tidbit the FO says about them as if it were gospel.
They'll defend the guy (or gal - who knows?) til the cows come how because Banner & Lombardi say so.
I really don't think that's the case, PPE. I think that there is going to be a lot of 'wait & see' attitude among the fanbase. But, I'll be willing to give the person (man or woman) that gets hired the benefit of the doubt. Will I give them more than one year before I rip into them? That remains to be seen. If they miss on this hiring, I think it's assured that both Banner & Lombardi would then be gone - and I'm not convinced that Lombardi has anything to do with the hiring of the head coach in any way.
The Browns ownership and front office haven't made a decision on who they're going to hire and nobody has accepted the job. Let's just see how things shake out.
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If I were to guesstimate, I would say that Turner and/or Horton had more of a conflict with the front office than Chudzinski did but the front office couldn't fire the coordinators and bring in their own guys
I've been wondering this same thing ever since this happened. I'm wondering if chud got canned because his loyalty was too great. I really think if he had gotten rid of one of these guys that he may still be here. would that have made any difference though? is he really HC material to begin with?
I really don't know, but everyone seems to be concentrating on Chudzinski not getting a second year. It may have been the only way to get rid of Turner and/or Horton. In the way that it's played out: Chudzinski's shock at being fired, the front office retaining the assistants and allowing them to seek employment elsewhere (so they don't payout their contracts), the comments made by all sides after Chudzinski's firing, etc. Wrap it all up like a detective and it spells a conflict between the front office and coordinators, not with Chudzinski.
If I were Chudzinski, I'd feel betrayed by my coordinators, not the team that gave me a shot at being their HC.
In DC, Shanahan wasn't undermined by his coordinators, he had a conflict with the owner directly. He was trying to get fired. If I were to hazard another guess, I'd say that he wasn't too thrilled by Snyder making the deal to get RG3 and handcuffing the team that he was hired to make perennial contenders. RG3 has turned out to be a headcase and he's hurting the team's development.
That wasn't the case in Cleveland. I feel badly for new Redskins HC Jay Gruden. He's set up for failure. He's still short-changed by the RG3 deal and without a first rounder (ironically, the 2nd overall selection - the same used to acquire RG3), and that will hamper the team in his first season. It'll be interesting to see what he's able to do. Unfortunately, Daniel Snyder isn't the type of owner that can admit a mistake.
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I think it has more to do with that none of these coaches are inspiring in the least.
Alright, I'll bite. What coach would you hire? Chudzinski has been fired, so keeping him isn't an option.
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Granted Chud had a short resume, but it was pretty successful. OC at Miami when they had the best offense ever of any college football team, OC of the Browns when we had a 10-6 season. Really laid the groundwork for the Panther's offense.
All of that may be true. As I've stated above, I actually think the problems were between the front office and at least one of the coordinators. Consider the situation if I am right. Could the front office fire the coordinators and leave the HC in place? How would you have taken that kind of event? How would it be viewed in the media outlets (print, the internet, TV and radio)? I propose that Chudzinski's firing may have been a necessary event to get rid of a problem at the coordinator position.
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Gase doesn't have the resume that Chud has, but is under the Saban tree which is interesting. And Quinn runs a 4-3 considering we just heavily invested in the 3-4 it's worrying that we would make a switch so quickly.
Gase comes highly spoken of by the front office and players alike in Denver, including Peyton Manning. It may all add up to nothing.
Quinn is an intriguing candidate.
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And there will be some singing their praises and talking them up and believing every little tidbit the FO says about them as if it were gospel.
They'll defend the guy (or gal - who knows?) til the cows come how because Banner & Lombardi say so.
I'd be thrilled with the Quinn hire. No guarantee it works out but him a Zimmer were my guys all along.
Malzahan would be my go to. But considering either we have no interest in him or he has no interest in us it's time to look beyond that. Pep Hamilton and Greg Roman are both young OC's that have been showing success. Pep Hamilton is Indy's OC, and they have looked pretty great. Before that he worked with Andrew Luck at Stanford and was OC there and was a WR and QB coach. Greg Roman is San Fran's OC, he's worked some magic with Alex Smith and Kaep. After that it's Quinn and Bowles, but their major problems are that they're not 3-4 DC's.
I don't believe there was a problem at the coordinator positions, so I'm not going to answer your question.
j/c on this post, didn't feel like scrolling up the find the one I should be Re'ing.
I don't think Mangini is some great coach, but several people have stated "why are we taking about him? it was two coaches ago?".
To those people I remind you of what half the board thinks is extremely important, continuity. I think Eric was hired in 2011 for a 5 year tear down/ rebuild ( I true one ). 2014 would be year 4 for EM. His five year plan still has another year on it if my time frame is correct, but even if this year was the end, he would have one more season. ( this does not mean I think he would still be hear ).
I just saying it is a valid name to bring up since it seems like 1 of 10 posts talk about our lack of continuity to build a program. ( I do think Jimmy would have replaced when he bought the team).
On a side note, how many of you are puzzled at the offensive numbers Philly put up with Shurmer as OC?
I also read on PFT that Horton has been hired as Titans DC.
If I were Chudzinski, I'd feel betrayed by my coordinators
did they really betray him though? I'm thinking they did exactly what they've done everywhere they've been. were they any different at all from their last jobs? I mean we all can use excuses like... injuries ... I don't have this... I need that... etc. but a winning coach will use what he's got and play their strengths. something our coaches didn't appear to be doing anywhere they've been.
a good HC needs to be able to recognize this from his coaches and adjust accordingly
I'm not puzzled by Philly's offense. Chip Kelly knows what he's doing and Pat Shurmer is riding his coattails. IIRC Chip Kelly is the ones calling the plays, but either way Pat Shurmer's main problem was that his offense was based in the 80's.
I would be thrilled if the FO gets an expierenced big name coach with a wining pedigree. The Browns need a Terry Francona like coach. They need to follow the Indians formula.
If the FO can pull something like that off then I will change my tune. I do not think that is what Banner and Lombardi want. They want complete control. They are looking for a puppet.
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On a side note, how many of you are puzzled at the offensive numbers Philly put up with Shurmer as OC?
LMAO. This comment made me giggle like a school girl. Do you really think Pat has much to do with Chip's offense? Chip makes the calls, it's Chip's system and I doubt much credit for Philly's system they run is on Shurmur's shoulder. Offensive coordinator, but more technically an "adviser" lol.
Just my two cents.
Report: Browns want second interview with Dan QuinnPosted by Josh Alper on January 19, 2014, 10:39 AM EST
The Browns are the only NFL team without a head coach and it seems that their timetable for changing that is going to have a lot to do with the availability of assistants in Sunday’s conference championship games.
Their interest in Broncos offensive coordinator Adam Gase has been known for a while, but Gase opted not to take any interviews until after Denver’s season came to an end. Reports now indicate that Gase is leaning toward not interviewing at all, which may lead the Browns back to a coach they’ve already interviewed.
Ian Rapoport of NFL Network reports that the Browns are interested in a second interview with Seahawks defensive coordinator Dan Quinn, who interviewed with Cleveland during Seattle’s bye week in the playoffs. Per Rapoport, there’s mutual interest and that Kyle Shanahan, Gary Kubiak and Mike Mularkey are potential offensive coordinators if Quinn does wind up with the job in Cleveland.
Several candidates interviewed by the Browns have either taken other jobs or withdrawn their names from consideration. Those that haven’t include Bills defensive coordinator Mike Pettine, former Titans head coach Mike Munchak and Cowboys special teams coach Rich Bisaccia.
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I think it's toxic.. I don't need a story to tell me. It's my opinion.
And yes, I think no matter who they choose, people aren't going to love it.
If you notice, there wasn't one candidate that anyone stood up for and had a crowd follow along. Nobody stood out. Not to me anyway.
So I'm bound to be disappointed no matter who they choose.
But I'm also open to changing my mind due to their actions.. NOT THEIR WORDS.
This front office and Owner have proven to me that they aren't to be trusted. I'm not telling you not to trust them, I'm saying I don't trust them.. you do as you wish.
Fair enough. You don't trust them and you won't like anyone that they bring in. They could land YOUR #1 candidate (whoever that might be) and you'd be angry about it.
So, you think that Randy Lerner could be trusted? He simply didn't care about the team. You want Holmgren back in charge with Heckert & Shurmur tagging along? What paragons of virtue they turned out to be.
By now you must know that I just LOVE it when the Internet Brave put words in my mouth..
Did you read the part that NOBODY STOOD OUT TO ME? Guess not, because had you, you may not have made such an idiotic assumption. I don't have a favorite.
Did I EVER say that Randy Lerner could be trusted? Show me where I said that. Another idiotic statement..
In your attempts to belittle me, you've made statements and assumptions that are not true or remotely accurate. except maybe in your mind. Impressive. You think your a mind reader., Perhaps you should take your act on the road.
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Quinn! Quinn! Quinn! Quinn!
Win with Quinn!
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Quinn! Quinn! Quinn! Quinn!
Win with Quinn!
Wait. I think I've heard that before...
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But, to me, it says that they aren't going to accept losing.
By constantly firing coaches, that tells me they are willing to accept losing. Either that or they are too clueless to see that constantly changing coaches in the past didn't work. We're never going to win if we fire a coach after every season.
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Per Rapoport, there’s mutual interest and that Kyle Shanahan, Gary Kubiak and Mike Mularkey are potential offensive coordinators if Quinn does wind up with the job in Cleveland.
Kubiak as a possible OC? I'm more than OK with that!
Quinn has been someone that has intrigued me as of late. Plus, having someone like Kubiak as OC with HC experience will allow Quinn to basically hand the reigns to him offensively for the most part.
Still the defensive scheme concerns me a tad but as someone alluded to earlier, Quinn seems to have some creative schemes and unorthodox looks that does offer both the 3-4 and 4-3.
He may be the one were targeted....and if so, Go 49ers!
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Quinn! Quinn! Quinn! Quinn!
Win with Quinn!
Wait. I think I've heard that before...
Doctor, I think I'm having flashbacks! I see the number 10... and interceptions... oh god, it's all happening again!
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Per Rapoport, there’s mutual interest and that Kyle Shanahan, Gary Kubiak and Mike Mularkey are potential offensive coordinators if Quinn does wind up with the job in Cleveland.
Kubiak as a possible OC? I'm more than OK with that!
Quinn has been someone that has intrigued me as of late. Plus, having someone like Kubiak as OC with HC experience will allow Quinn to basically hand the reigns to him offensively for the most part.
Still the defensive scheme concerns me a tad but as someone alluded to earlier, Quinn seems to have some creative schemes and unorthodox looks that does offer both the 3-4 and 4-3.
He may be the one were targeted....and if so, Go 49ers!
So back to a 4-3 and a cookie cutter WCO? I really didn't think we could do worse than this.
More from Rappoport via Twitter: "On #Browns: OC Adam Gase feels he's in a great situation & would need a perfect opportunity to leave Denver. May not even interview in Cle.".
Browns should just walk away from this guy. Up his.
Not sure Kubiak can be disregarded, he has had a history of excellent offenses. Dude had success with Jake Plummer.
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Browns should just walk away from this guy. Up his.
Exactly. 100% exactly.
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How many head coaching candidates have said the Brown's job is toxic? May I see their quotes, please?
Opinion, plus conjecture in several articles by national writers. Like it or not, some of thse guys are pretty well connected. I don't know that anyone specifically tied such a quote to a specific candidate, and they won't. They aren't going to burn a source who will be looking for a job in the future in the same pool of sharks.
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All I know is that the majority of this board--and probably the local media---are going to hate whoever the Browns hire as the next head coach.
I am going to hope that the guy takes us to 10 Super Bowls. I want to win.. I would love to be wrong .... I would relish being wrong ...... if this front office somehow starts winning championships. My expectations for them have diminished over time though. We'll see who we hire. I will be disappointed if we wind up with a Pat Shurmur type ,,,,,,, inexperienced and not a leader.
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We will hear from posters that the Browns settled for so and so.
Or, we'll hear that so and so was the only guy who would take the job.
It is true that we really don't know which side called the courtship off, except in the cases of Tucker and McDaniels.
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We will hear how the Browns picked w/someone w/not enough experience, or-----he is just another retread that has been fired for a reason.
My criteria, as always, is that I want a great leader. I want a guy who can manage experienced coordinators and assistants, who can manage players, and who can let go of enough of the day to day so he can manage the big picture. I want a coach who sets the agenda, allows his coordinators to do their jobs, and then follows up to make sure. I don't want a head coach who has to be a coordinator, and who is the head coach, essentially, of one side of the ball.
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The majority are not interested in playing fair. It's an all-out hate fest where logic and reason are not welcome participants.
Oh please. Many posters, myself included, are ticked off over the way Chud was treated. A hate fest where logic is not allowed? Please. Many posters, and most fans disagree with your position regarding the way Chud was treated by the Browns, and what it says about their ability to manage a head coach and coaching staff. Some think that it speaks poorly to their ability to find, recruit, hire, support, and develop a great head coach. Some think that it was a panic move, made out of emotion rather than rational thought. Most think that there were internal problems in the front office with the head coach. Whatever the case, this front office hired Chud, and they fired him less than a year later. They have done nothing to inspire my confidence that they can do all parts of their job concerning a head coach ...... find, recruit, hire, support, and develop.
You disagree. You think that they made the right move. You think that some moves you agreed with a year ago were actually wrong in retrospect. (like hiring Turner) That's your right. I think that the mistake this front office made was made after the season, but rather prior to it.
There are no martyrs on the message board. No one is going to be nailed to a cross for having an opinion. You aggressively state and defend your opinion, and yes, you sometimes go over the line. Others who disagree with you do the same sometimes. No one is so innocent that they should go looking for specks in the eye's of their fellow posters.
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More from Rappoport via Twitter: "On #Browns: OC Adam Gase feels he's in a great situation & would need a perfect opportunity to leave Denver. May not even interview in Cle.".
Browns should just walk away from this guy. Up his.
Bring on Quinn and lets be done with this.
Agreed. He's much more experienced than Gase and looks like some decent coordinators will sign on.
All these guys who are close to making the big jump up to HC have a staff in mind. He may bring along a coach or two.
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More from Rappoport via Twitter: "On #Browns: OC Adam Gase feels he's in a great situation & would need a perfect opportunity to leave Denver. May not even interview in Cle.".
Browns should just walk away from this guy. Up his.
Josh Mcdaniels 2.0
He's gonna ride that Manning gravy train to the finish line.
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How many head coaching candidates have said the Brown's job is toxic? May I see their quotes, please?
Opinion, plus conjecture in several articles by national writers. Like it or not, some of thse guys are pretty well connected. I don't know that anyone specifically tied such a quote to a specific candidate, and they won't. They aren't going to burn a source who will be looking for a job in the future in the same pool of sharks.
I am assuming there are zero quotes from coaches saying our FO is toxic, right?
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My criteria, as always, is that I want a great leader.
So, why are you so upset about Chud? The guy won less games that Passive Pat and he had more talent on his team than Pat did. He "led" the team to 10 losses in its last 11 games. They played uninspired football for most of the second half of the season. That isn't leadership.
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A hate fest where logic is not allowed? Please.
I give you Exhibit A:
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"Jimmy, can you assure the fans .... that you don't have the 3 Stooges running this operation?"
Sounds logical and reasonable to me. 
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You think that some moves you agreed with a year ago were actually wrong in retrospect. (like hiring Turner) That's your right.
I did like the hires. I am not even saying it was good to fire them. I wish we would have given the coaching staff another year. I have never said otherwise. I have objected to guys like DJ and Swish bashing the coaching staff over and over and now they are all of a sudden defending that very same coaching staff. I am also objecting to the so many of you guys pointing to one move and making such a rock-solid conclusion that the new guys are stooges, buffoons, liars, con men, ignorant, egotistical morons who can't win because of their huge egos, etc.
Sorry YTown..........I ain't buying it.
I get the Manning thing..........but, has anyone even considered that Manning had his best statistical year ever? Have any of you even considered what Denver's offense accomplished this year in terms of comparing their offenses to all the great offenses in the history of the NFL?
Any consideration at all? Not even a little bit?
Look at the additions they made. Vazquez has probably been the best interior offensive linemen in the NFL this year. Then you have Julius Thomas having a Jordan Cameron type of breakout year. Plus adding Wes Welker helps.
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I get the Manning thing..........but, has anyone even considered that Manning had his best statistical year ever? Have any of you even considered what Denver's offense accomplished this year in terms of comparing their offenses to all the great offenses in the history of the NFL?
Any consideration at all? Not even a little bit?
I would guess that Mannings OC in Indy was thought very highly of when Manning played there. That didn't really pan out when Manning didn't play, did it? Now, I'm sure you'll say "they tanked the season so they could get Luck."
Regardless........it's interesting reading your posts. People are either with you, or you attack them. I find it highly humorous ........your posts when people disagree with you.
You have shown yourself to many other posters that take you to task over your 2 facedness. You speak out of both sides of your mouth, and you are extremely negative and belittling to others, yet cry when others call you out.
It's funny. But, someone said you have me on ignore........so be it. As someone else pointed out, you throw punches, but have a glass chin.
Carry on.
I am not attacking you, but I really want to know if you really believe Gase should not get any credit at all for their record setting season?
I am saying that when a team breaks that many records in one season, and they do it w/a qb who has played around 15 years and played on other great teams...............you may want to consider that the OC is pretty bright, especially when Manning and Elway have both claimed the same thing.
You don't get that, at all?
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If I were Chudzinski, I'd feel betrayed by my coordinators
did they really betray him though? I'm thinking they did exactly what they've done everywhere they've been. were they any different at all from their last jobs? I mean we all can use excuses like... injuries ... I don't have this... I need that... etc. but a winning coach will use what he's got and play their strengths. something our coaches didn't appear to be doing anywhere they've been.
a good HC needs to be able to recognize this from his coaches and adjust accordingly
Well, I think that Chudzinski was going to have to rely on the coordinators too much, if there is such a thing, to bail him out. He didn't have the head coaching experience that Norv Turner does. He also counted on Horton to give him an opportunity to win games but Horton went into collapse mode late in games. Was it intentional, I don't know, but I really think there was something going on between the coordinators (not Chudzinski) and the front office and the coordinator's chose to not fully do their best job, whether it was consciously done or not.
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I am not attacking you, but I really want to know if you really believe Gase should not get any credit at all for their record setting season?
I am saying that when a team breaks that many records in one season, and they do it w/a qb who has played around 15 years and played on other great teams...............you may want to consider that the OC is pretty bright, especially when Manning and Elway have both claimed the same thing.
You don't get that, at all?
No, I don't.
Let's say Gase comes here. What does he have to work with? The probably greatest qb of all time? No.
I wouldn't be surprised if Manning isn't schooling Gase week in and week out. That may be a benefit for Gase............but could he be a "genius" with Weeden, Hoyer, or Campbell? Please.
Not trying to be offensive at all............but, we might want to be careful in saying that there was this big divide between Chud and his coordinators. I haven't seen any proof of that.
I have defended the FO, but it's a real stretch to blame the poor performance of the team on a rift between Chud and the coordinators.
I am not saying that we have the same talent.
I am saying that there have been a lot of great offensive teams that did not accomplish what Denver did under Gase.
I get the Manning thing.........but, Manning has played in the league a long, long time and he had his best year.............this year. So did Moreno and many others.
Guys, it's one thing to not want the guy as our HC, but it is another to simply dismiss his accomplishments by saying he had Manning. and that anyone could have done the same thing.
It doesn't add up.
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I am not attacking you, but I really want to know if you really believe Gase should not get any credit at all for their record setting season?
I am saying that when a team breaks that many records in one season, and they do it w/a qb who has played around 15 years and played on other great teams...............you may want to consider that the OC is pretty bright, especially when Manning and Elway have both claimed the same thing.
You don't get that, at all?
Maybe he did? I'm not inside that lockeroom. I don't know the dynamics in that relationship. However, Josh Mcdaniels proved that it doesn't translate to being a HC. Heck remember Brian Billick? He had success because of the Ravens incredible defense.
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By now you must know that I just LOVE it when the Internet Brave put words in my mouth.
I didn't put any words in your mouth. You're getting testy though. Why?
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Did you read the part that NOBODY STOOD OUT TO ME? Guess not, because had you, you may not have made such an idiotic assumption. I don't have a favorite.
Yes, I saw it. That doesn't mean that you would come up with the potential candidates and which one that you disliked the least or felt was better (if even marginally so) than the others. Presumably, if you were making the choice, you would actually make a choice and not throw a dart at a dartboard or put the names on pieces of paper and pull them out of a hat.
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Did I EVER say that Randy Lerner could be trusted? Show me where I said that. Another idiotic statement.
By inference, you stated that you didn't trust this ownership. That would seem to indicate that by singling them out for your vitriol, that by default you would trust the previous ownership and/or front office more than the current ones. Since you didn't state otherwise, I'll take it that's what you meant.
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In your attempts to belittle me, you've made statements and assumptions that are not true or remotely accurate. except maybe in your mind. Impressive. You think your a mind reader., Perhaps you should take your act on the road.
Maybe you should communicate your views more precisely.
So, since you're all defensive about it and got your panties in a wad, I'll ask you straight up.
Would you prefer Randy Lerner as the owner or Jimmy Haslam? Which do you trust more?
Would you prefer Mike Holmgren & Tom Heckert or Joe Banner & Michael Lombardi? Which do you trust more?
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I am not saying that we have the same talent.
I am saying that there have been a lot of great offensive teams that did not accomplish what Denver did under Gase.
I get the Manning thing.........but, Manning has played in the league a long, long time and he had his best year.............this year. So did Moreno and many others.
Guys, it's one thing to not want the guy as our HC, but it is another to simply dismiss his accomplishments by saying he had Manning. and that anyone could have done the same thing.
It doesn't add up.
You keep acting like this is the same squad in terms of talent from last year when they're not. They added a guy who might now be the best guard in the NFL. They added the best slot WR in the NFL and they have a TE playing like one of the best in the NFL. They also have talent at runningback.
Or, he could just realize.that with only one head coach opening he has no other contract leverage than to say he might stay. No biggie to me with this statement. Whether he is actually first.preference or just one of the candidates on the list, he definitely has the appearance of the preferred candidate, and his agent would not be doing his job if he weren't trying to angle the best possible offer for his client.
Sorry, quoted wrong post on phone.
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But, to me, it says that they aren't going to accept losing.
By constantly firing coaches, that tells me they are willing to accept losing. Either that or they are too clueless to see that constantly changing coaches in the past didn't work. We're never going to win if we fire a coach after every season.
Hiring the wrong head coach (and I don't necessarily think that Chudzinski deserved firing) and sticking with them for longer than necessary isn't a good idea.
The Browns had 4 wins, 12 losses at the end of the season. That's the same. If you felt that 4 or 5 wins and 11 or 12 losses per year are acceptable, then I can see how you might be upset. Losing 7 straight games should be unacceptable to every Browns fan and it shouldn't matter what the coach's name is.
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Look at the additions they made. Vazquez has probably been the best interior offensive linemen in the NFL this year. Then you have Julius Thomas having a Jordan Cameron type of breakout year. Plus adding Wes Welker helps.
But Manning played with both Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison in all of their primes. That said, I believe Peyton's having a record season because he's throwing it more than ever. Would someone mind to fact check that? And if it is true would anyone mind finding his yards per attempt in this seasons and other seasons?
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Would you prefer Randy Lerner as the owner or Jimmy Haslam? Which do you trust more?
Would you prefer Mike Holmgren & Tom Heckert or Joe Banner & Michael Lombardi? Which do you trust more?
My opinion, nothing else: Lerner-Holmgren-Heckert. And it ain't even close!
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Look at the additions they made. Vazquez has probably been the best interior offensive linemen in the NFL this year. Then you have Julius Thomas having a Jordan Cameron type of breakout year. Plus adding Wes Welker helps.
But Manning played with both Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison in all of their primes. That said, I believe Peyton's having a record season because he's throwing it more than ever. Would someone mind to fact check that? And if it is true would anyone mind finding his yards per attempt in this seasons and other seasons?
nvm found it here: http://www.nfl.com/player/peytonmanning/2501863/careerstats
He has thrown it the most this year, but this season is also the 2nd most efficient year in terms of yrds/attempt (In 2004 he had 9.2 yards per attempt).
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Would you prefer Randy Lerner as the owner or Jimmy Haslam? Which do you trust more?
Would you prefer Mike Holmgren & Tom Heckert or Joe Banner & Michael Lombardi? Which do you trust more?
My opinion, nothing else: Lerner-Holmgren-Heckert. And it ain't even close!
You cannot be serious...absolutely cannot be...
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Not trying to be offensive at all............but, we might want to be careful in saying that there was this big divide between Chud and his coordinators. I haven't seen any proof of that.
I'm not saying that there was a divide between Chudzinski and Turner or between him and Horton. I suggest that there was a divide between the front office and Turner or the front office and Horton... or between the front office and both Turner & Horton.
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I have defended the FO, but it's a real stretch to blame the poor performance of the team on a rift between Chud and the coordinators.
Again, I'm not suggesting that. I do really think that the coordinators had a real problem with the front office and there wasn't any way that the front office could have gotten rid of them without first firing Chudzinski. There was no real way for them to fire the coordinators and leave Chudzinski in place as the HC. Chudzinski would have quit if they had fired his coordinators and it would have looked even more horrible (from a prospective HC standpoint) for them to do so.
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Would you prefer Randy Lerner as the owner or Jimmy Haslam? Which do you trust more?
Would you prefer Mike Holmgren & Tom Heckert or Joe Banner & Michael Lombardi? Which do you trust more?
My opinion, nothing else: Lerner-Holmgren-Heckert. And it ain't even close!
Very well, we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm only going to say that because I know what we had with Lerner-Holmgren-Heckert and I don't want that. I'm not sure what we have with Haslam-Banner-Lombardi, although all of them were better qualified for the respective jobs than the previous ownership/regime.
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I do really think that the coordinators had a real problem with the front office...
You may very well be right. There must be more to the story than what we know. Perhaps Chud sided with his co-ordinators' suggestions/viewpoints and this went in an opposite direction from what the FO wanted....
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... all of them were better qualified for the respective jobs than the previous ownership/regime.
You're right in that we'll have to agree to disagree...
watch it with the insults. You can dish it out, but you can't take it.
Actually a pretty funny statement...Ignorant is not knowing pure and simple it might sound as an insult to u...I actually use that word on subject matter that I am not in the KNOW and state that I'm ignorant. But you come out with some off the wall debates as in stating things like facts that just aren't close. Dish what out...can't take what. Please tool me in a football argument - I BEG OF YOU...That is my problem with you its not a matter of give and take of logical opinion. Where I can enjoy the discussion cause at least its football educated. Like I sort of enjoy from Toad, Django, Pit, Vers who I disagree with on more than one occasion but its based on football and logic. No insults. Ignorant is just that. If you state he did not bring discipline. When we had training camp where if WRs dropped the ball they ran a lap, fumbled the ball ran a lap, OL jump off sides ran a lap. And all those infractions went down during the season. Then you come along and say he didn't bring any discipline??? What am I suppose to do. Let it slide and so this message board can lose its reputation. Please I beg of you MAKE A CORRECT POINT once in a while.
Back to the topic...I have no dislike for any of the teams. I really admire and respect Manning n Brady. I like the two young entertaining QBs of the other game. If I dislike anything for some reason I dislike Pete Carrol. But we got two interviews to go before making our decision so In lieu of that . Go Pats. and Go 49ers!
I am not sure why Kubiak isn't getting interviews to be a head coach. He was 61-64 overall as the Texans head coach including this past season when he was fired after going 2-11.
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Please tool me in a football argument - I BEG OF YOU...
OK...
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If you state he did not bring discipline. When we had training camp where if WRs dropped the ball they ran a lap, fumbled the ball ran a lap, OL jump off sides ran a lap. And all those infractions went down during the season. Then you come along and say he didn't bring any discipline???
FUMBLES:
2008, under Crennel: 17 fumbles, 6 fumbles lost
2009, under Mangini: 21 fumbles, 13 fumbles lost
DROPPED PASSES:
2008, under Crennel: 36 dropped passes, 7.4% drop percentage
2009, under Mangini: 39 dropped passes, 8.9% drop percentage
OFFSIDES PENALTIES:
2008, under Crennel: 12
2009, under Mangini: 3
TOTAL PENALTY YARDS:
2008, under Crennel: 669 yards
2009, under Mangini: 678 yards
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What am I suppose to do. Let it slide and so this message board can lose its reputation. Please I beg of you MAKE A CORRECT POINT once in a while.
Here's a free piece of advice -
If you're going to be condescending towards someone, take a minute or two to check your facts.
Otherwise, you might end up looking like a BOZO.
But charging players $1000 for a bottle of water instills discipline!
Back to the topic of this thread.
Gase looks to be all of 15 years old!
Why leave Denver when there's a good chance he could put a couple of SB rings on his hand?
He'd be wise to stay and most likely watch his stock rise.
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But charging players $1000 for a bottle of water instills discipline!
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Back to the topic of this thread.
Gase looks to be all of 15 years old!
Why leave Denver when there's a good chance he could put a couple of SB rings on his hand?
He'd be wise to stay and most likely watch his stock rise.
I wouldn't go anywhere if I were him.
I'd take some interviews, and then leverage the interest into a raise.
I definitely wouldn't go to Cleveland. You usually get one crack at a HC gig, two if you're lucky.
Bad timing for us with him.
Probably not a hard decision for him considering his current position and our current state.
We need a thick skinned, blue collar like work ethic guy in here.
He doesn't look the part.
Still like Dan Quinn. If it's not him I'll be looking for the Bills guy.
Cleveland Browns might conduct 2nd interviews with Mike Pettine, Dan Quinn
on January 19, 2014 at 2:06 PM, updated January 19, 2014 at 2:38 PM
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Browns might conduct second interviews with defensive coordinators Mike Pettine of the Bills and Dan Quinn of Seahawks depending on how their search plays out over the few days, a league source told Northeast Ohio Media Group.
The Browns plan to interview Broncos offensive coordinator Adam Gase after Denver is eliminated from the playoffs, but as of Saturday, Gase was leaning toward remaining with the Broncos, a source told NEOMG.
If the Broncos lose Sunday to the Patriots in the AFC Championship Game, the Browns could swoop in as early as Sunday night or Monday and try to make Gase, 35, an offer he can't refuse.
If things go well with Gase, second interviews with Quinn and Pettine might not be necessary.
But a source also said that Gase is not necessarily the Browns' top target heading into the conference championship games, and that he'll have to top the interviews of multiple candidates that have dazzled the Browns, presumably Quinn and Pettine.
Pettine can be interviewed at any time because he's out of the playoffs, and Quinn can talk again once he's eliminated -- or next week if the Seahawks advance to the Super Bowl Feb. 2 at MetLife Stadium in New Jersey. The Seahawks will face the 49ers in the NFC Championship Game on Sunday, and teams are permitted a second interview with a Super Bowl coach.
ESPN's Chris Mortensen reported that the Browns would also be willing to wait for a second meeting with Patriots coordinator Josh McDaniels if he agrees to it, but a source told NEOMG that McDaniels currently has no plans to jump back into the mix. McDaniels pulled his name out of the running, saying he wanted to remain in New England, and a source told NEOMG that he opted out when told he wasn't the frontrunner.
Quinn, 43, presides over the NFL's top-ranked defense (273.6 yards per game), and one that's also first in the NFL with only 14.4 points allowed per game. The Seahawks were tied for eighth in the NFL during the regular season with 44 sacks and led the league with 39 takeaways. He began his career primarily as a defensive line coach, and has worked for the 49ers, Dolphins, Jets and at the University of Florida.
Quinn's mentors include Steve Mariucci, former Browns coach Eric Mangini and his current head coach, Pete Carroll.
“Dan is a terrific football coach, he’s got tremendous background in the game, he’s got great character about the game, he’s a great communicator, he’s tough, he knows what he wants,'' Carroll told reporters. "Look how well he transitioned to take this thing over so quickly and like I said, ‘Seamlessly.’ Getting along with people, working with people, and also managing the talent, all of that. He’s really well-equipped...
"[The playoffs are] first and foremost and all of our guys understand, but also I’ll help our guys any way that I can to fulfill the dreams that they have for themselves and proudly go about that. So we’ll deal with this normally also.”
Pettine, 47, is coming off his first season as the Bills’ defensive coordinator, but spent four seasons as Jets coordinator before that. His Bills' defense, a 3-4 hybrid scheme, ranked 10th overall and 20th in scoring. It also finished second in interceptions and sacks. His Jets defenses finished in the top-10 in all four seasons from 2009-12, including a No. 1 ranking in 2009. Pettine was also a Ravens assistant from 2002-08, meaning he knows what it takes to win in the AFC North.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/01/cleveland_browns_mike_pettine.html
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The Browns might conduct second interviews with defensive coordinators Mike Pettine of the Bills and Dan Quinn of Seahawks depending on how their search plays out over the few days, a league source told Northeast Ohio Media Group.
I might take a nap. How is this news?
I thought the article gave nice background on Pettine. And while not news, it seems like we have narrowed our search to 3 guys - Quinn, Pettine and Gase. I am really going to be rooting for the Seahawks tonight (because the team I root for always loses). That way we might get some closure on the HC search. I am sure tired of this treadmill. Now that the Broncos have won, if Seattle loses then I think we reach an agreement with Quinn or Pettine rather quickly - JMO.
Well the Bronco's won, so it will be two more weeks before we can interview Gase.
How hilarious would it be if we wait and he then turns us down for an interview?
I still don't get why Greg Roman's name is never mentioned.... He should be at the top of our wish list.
We will now also see if McDaniels is going to put his name back into the mix. I say no.
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Now that the Broncos have won, if Seattle loses then I think we reach an agreement with Quinn or Pettine rather quickly - JMO.
If we never even interview Gase then the letter that Haslam wrote is a farce.
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We will now also see if McDaniels is going to put his name back into the mix. I say no.
Nah. He's no doubt a great coordinator but I hope we don't give him his 2nd shot at HC.
Hey, if your not a head coach then your not a head coach. Some guys top out in certain spots. No shame.
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The Browns might conduct second interviews with defensive coordinators Mike Pettine of the Bills and Dan Quinn of Seahawks ...
I might take a nap. How is this news?
No kidding. My first thought after reading that headline: "and then again they might not."
I am not that high on Roman. I just don't see the fire that I think our team needs. It might be there butnI don't see it.
I think he will. McDaniels was the coach Banner and Lombardi wanted the night Chud was fired. Taking his name out of the hat was just a convienence for him during the Pats playoffs and for this FO because of the backlash.
My prediction is McDaniels will be hired by the end of this week.
If the Browns could get Manziel and a few decent running backs Roman would be a good choice. He could use Manziel in many of the same ways he uses Kapernick running the ball.
jc
What about del Rio? Totally forgot about him, but he has experience, got to the POs and is now a good DC. Am I forgetting smthg significant or why isn't he even considered for interviews?
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If you state he did not bring discipline. When we had training camp where if WRs dropped the ball they ran a lap, fumbled the ball ran a lap, OL jump off sides ran a lap. And all those infractions went down during the season. Then you come along and say he didn't bring any discipline???
FUMBLES:
2008, under Crennel: 17 fumbles, 6 fumbles lost
2009, under Mangini: 21 fumbles, 13 fumbles lost
DROPPED PASSES:
2008, under Crennel: 36 dropped passes, 7.4% drop percentage
2009, under Mangini: 39 dropped passes, 8.9% drop percentage
OFFSIDES PENALTIES:
2008, under Crennel: 12
2009, under Mangini: 3
TOTAL PENALTY YARDS:
2008, under Crennel: 669 yards
2009, under Mangini: 678 yards
Here's a free piece of advice -
If you're going to be condescending towards someone, take a minute or two to check your facts.
Otherwise, you might end up looking like a BOZO.
FLAG...Illegal use of stats! Come on # of fumbles and penalties per coaches...Really! How many times does Crennel and Mangini carry the ball! Reaching!
The search didn't include guys whom they thought were more football savvy than themselves!
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But, to me, it says that they aren't going to accept losing.
By constantly firing coaches, that tells me they are willing to accept losing. Either that or they are too clueless to see that constantly changing coaches in the past didn't work. We're never going to win if we fire a coach after every season.
Hiring the wrong head coach (and I don't necessarily think that Chudzinski deserved firing) and sticking with them for longer than necessary isn't a good idea.
The Browns had 4 wins, 12 losses at the end of the season. That's the same. If you felt that 4 or 5 wins and 11 or 12 losses per year are acceptable, then I can see how you might be upset. Losing 7 straight games should be unacceptable to every Browns fan and it shouldn't matter what the coach's name is.
Feel free to point out examples of how the Browns constantly changing coaches has made us better. New ownership, same problems as the last owner.
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We will now also see if McDaniels is going to put his name back into the mix. I say no.
I don't think that the Browns would be interested if he did.
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Now that the Broncos have won, if Seattle loses then I think we reach an agreement with Quinn or Pettine rather quickly - JMO.
If we never even interview Gase then the letter that Haslam wrote is a farce.
Why? Gase may never have been on the interview list. I don't think that the Browns have said they're planning to interview him. It's been nothing but speculation on the part of the media.
Unless they're doing some persuading with a guy like Stoops or some other bigger name I'm guessing it's Quinn or Pettine with it being Quinns to accept or decline since they're waiting for him to finish up. I suppose Gase may be in there but he'd be crazy to leave.
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Unless they're doing some persuading with a guy like Stoops or some other bigger name I'm guessing it's Quinn or Pettine with it being Quinns to accept or decline since they're waiting for him to finish up. I suppose Gase may be in there but he'd be crazy to leave.
I don't know that Gase will even get a chance to interview. He may not be their target anyway.
As I understand the rules about the hiring of coaches, the Browns do not need permission to speak to these coordinators or coaches after the playoffs. Obviously, coaches can always decline interview requests themselves, but their teams cannot keep them from 'upward mobility'. If a team wishes to interview a coach from another team that hasn't made the playoffs, they can interview them as soon as the season ends, as long as they have an opening to fill that is considered a vertical move. Going from OC or DC to HC is such a move. Going from WR coach to OC is also such a move.
The rules are slightly different for teams in the playoffs, because of the 'extended season'. As soon as a team in the playoffs lose, their coaches and coordinators are able, without permission, to speak to any other team about a vertical move.
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Now that the Broncos have won, if Seattle loses then I think we reach an agreement with Quinn or Pettine rather quickly - JMO.
If we never even interview Gase then the letter that Haslam wrote is a farce.
Why? Gase may never have been on the interview list. I don't think that the Browns have said they're planning to interview him. It's been nothing but speculation on the part of the media.
The Browns sent a formal interview request to Denver to interview Gase.
Wr coach to OC is considered a lateral move. Assistant coach to assistant coach. As far as I understand it.
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Wr coach to OC is considered a lateral move. Assistant coach to assistant coach. As far as I understand it.
It's more like assistant coach to assistant coach. It's hardly a lateral move.
Maybe not a lateral move to the coach but a lateral move as far as NFL interviewing/hiring goes.
I believe coaches going forward to the SB can interview next week if they so choose.
I don't expect Gase to and kind of doubt Quinn will.
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If you state he did not bring discipline. When we had training camp where if WRs dropped the ball they ran a lap, fumbled the ball ran a lap, OL jump off sides ran a lap. And all those infractions went down during the season. Then you come along and say he didn't bring any discipline???
FUMBLES:
2008, under Crennel: 17 fumbles, 6 fumbles lost
2009, under Mangini: 21 fumbles, 13 fumbles lost
DROPPED PASSES:
2008, under Crennel: 36 dropped passes, 7.4% drop percentage
2009, under Mangini: 39 dropped passes, 8.9% drop percentage
OFFSIDES PENALTIES:
2008, under Crennel: 12
2009, under Mangini: 3
TOTAL PENALTY YARDS:
2008, under Crennel: 669 yards
2009, under Mangini: 678 yards
Here's a free piece of advice -
If you're going to be condescending towards someone, take a minute or two to check your facts.
Otherwise, you might end up looking like a BOZO.
FLAG...Illegal use of stats! Come on # of fumbles and penalties per coaches...Really! How many times does Crennel and Mangini carry the ball! Reaching!
I would love an explanation of how this is a reach.
I pointed out that the idea of Mangini instilling discipline was a myth perpetuated by those still deluded by the idea of Mangini.
EO countered by claiming that Mangini lowered fumbles, drops and penalties. He painted a picture of evidence so strong that to claim otherwise was a sign of ignorance.
Mangini did not do any of these things.
Again, please explain to me how refuting EO's claims, directly, and with hard evidence, is reaching.
Or just escape into the shell of "Mangini is ancient history" after your defense is poked with so many holes that it sinks.
Reach?
How many times does Mangini or Crennel run or play a down?
Yea...reaching! Come on you are better than that. I've read your stuff. You really want to stand behind that last post?
We may be waiting a few more weeks for our coaching answers...
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The Browns sent a formal interview request to Denver to interview Gase.
Yeah. Okay then. I guess I missed that one. I know it was talked about and that Gase said that he wouldn't interview until after Denver's season was over.
If the Browns sent a request, it doesn't necessarily mean that he will be the one that they want.
If he withdraws, it would still be irrelevant.
It's about time to interview Greg Roman.
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It's about time to interview Greg Roman.
QFT. 2 weeks to review the bad Quinn decision.
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The search didn't include guys whom they thought were more football savvy than themselves!
Not many names on that list then....
Mangini-Discipline? *cough*Shaun Rogers*cough*
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Reach?
How many times does Mangini or Crennel run or play a down?
Yea...reaching! Come on you are better than that. I've read your stuff. You really want to stand behind that last post?
I'm inclined to ask you the same question.
2008, under Crennel: a fumble once every 24 rushes
2009, under Mangini :a fumble once every 23 rushes
Do you really want to play this game? I'm more than willing to do so, but, spoiler alert: you won't come out on the winning end.
It's one thing to go to bat for Mangini and lose....it's another to act like I'm reaching or ignorant.
I'll ask again before we go down this road: do you really want to? Have you checked your facts, or are you going off our your gut intuition? Are you confident in your opinion, or are you just reciting it and hoping it's not challenged?
Not that I really care about such a stupid debate, but you do know that fumbles aren't exclusive to rushing plays, yes?
I don't infer, I say it or I don't...
Agree with you on Jack Del Rio. He's only 50, with 8 years HC experience. He's worked for Ditka, Billick, and Fox. Career record is just under .500 - with Jacksonville. He should be considered, imo.
I have a feeling Mike Pettine is the guy. The more I find out about him, the more I like him. I think he can become our Bill Cower. Intense guy.
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I don't infer, I say it or I don't...
You know the meaning of 'infer', right?
In case you don't, here's your word of the day: infer
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I have a feeling Mike Pettine is the guy. The more I find out about him, the more I like him.
I like your line of thinking, 'Peen. My concern is that if he is indeed our guy, we could have had him signed, sealed, and delivered by now. I can't believe we are waiting this long if he is our guy. Possibly this means that either Gase or Quinn are our true targets...
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It's about time to interview Greg Roman.
QFT. 2 weeks to review the bad Quinn decision.
What don't you like about Quinn?
Sorry that I don't go back & look. Another thread 80% bogged down with pointless bickering.
I've read two different-sourced comments that his players really play hard for him. Fiery guy, just what we need here. DC, runs a 3-4 or a variant. I like him a lot.
His name rhymes with "sweatin'". not with, well, "peen". The "e" is silent.
He's been called back for a second interview, apparently his daughter tweeted something about possibly moving to Cleveland, and didn't seem real happy about it.
Now that we are faced with two weeks for Gase, with a chance to talk with him this week, I think the decision process will speed up a bit. Although, I'm wondering what the odds are Peyton wins the SB, decided to retire on a high note, and Gase suddenly becomes available. I like that Pettine has had a top 10 D everywhere he's been.
[quote Another thread 80% bogged down with pointless bickering.
Do you really want to go there... what kind of bickering was done when H&H were here?
You thnk we didnt bicker when they went 4 -12 5 -11 every year and now you wnat to bicker about bickering without giving these new guys a chance..
Unbelievebale.
JK... sorry could not resist... actually i agree with you 100% 
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Now that we are faced with two weeks for Gase, with a chance to talk with him this week, I think the decision process will speed up a bit. Although, I'm wondering what the odds are Peyton wins the SB, decided to retire on a high note, and Gase suddenly becomes available. I like that Pettine has had a top 10 D everywhere he's been.
If Gase's decison rest on what Manning does, then IMO he his not ready to be a HC, it makes it seem like he wuld not be all in. If he needs a security blanket then best we walk away and search elsewhere.
For the record I wouod prefer Quinn or Pettine (sp). I want a D minded coach.
Browns methodical coaching search may take another two weeks The Morning Kickoff …
The waiting game: Now what do the Browns do?
Their presumed top two choices for head coach are going to the Super Bowl. Denver offensive coordinator Adam Gase is 1A. Seattle defensive coordinator Dan Quinn is 1B.
By rule, both can be interviewed during the coming Super Bowl bye week if their teams give permission – but the job can’t be offered.
Gase, playing hard to get, has previously declined to interview until the Broncos are done playing. It’s a commendable position, but, really, it’s time for Gase to quit the games and decide if he wants to be considered or not. It’s either yes or no. Make a decision. Fourth-and-2. You going for it or punting?
Quinn already has interviewed once and probably will consent to a second interview.
Quinn has a few advantages over Gase.
1. When a team fires a coach so abruptly as the Browns did, it usually seeks to replace him with a polar opposite personality. Rob Chudzinski was an offensive coach. Quinn is from the defensive side. Chudzinski was not a dominant personality. Quinn can be a dominant personality. Gase is a wallflower, as was Chudzinski (publicly) and Pat Shurmur.
2. In two coaching searches, Jimmy Haslam has been turned down more times than a beggar on a downtown street corner. Gase’s attitude has got to be a turnoff. Quinn has been much more accommodating and pleasing.
The Browns now have to decide whether to wait two weeks for both candidates to finish their business with their present teams or to turn to Buffalo defensive coordinator Mike Pettine, who appears to be a facsimile of Quinn. Or to Dallas special teams coach Rich Bisaccia, who has some SEC ties and twice interviewed for positions at Haslam’s beloved University of Tennessee.
Or maybe the Browns expand this “methodical” search to San Francisco offensive coordinator Greg Roman or San Francisco special teams guru Brad Seely (more qualified than Bisaccia).
Or maybe the Browns expand the search to the college ranks and find somebody to agree with them that Johnny Manziel can stay healthy and win in the AFC North and complete a pass in 10 degrees temperatures and 20 mph winds in December.
The problem for the Browns is that the Senior Bowl workouts in Mobile, AL, are this week. Besides being a pre-combine preview of draft-eligible college talent, the Senior Bowl is a renowned coaches convention, where out-of-work coaches converge to “network” for new jobs.
I don’t want to overplay the “assembling a coaching staff” angle, but the last two coaching hires in 2013 were made on Jan. 17 (Gus Bradley by Jacksonville and Bruce Arians by Arizona). So the Browns already are past that date.
Things we learned from the championship games
* Josh McDaniels is no offensive genius: Let’s hope McDaniels doesn’t have a change of heart and calls the Browns about revisiting their interest in him as head coach. He is so unqualified to take over a team again, it’s discouraging the Browns even considered him seriously.
McDaniels is only 37, so he has time on his side to rebuild a reputation that was tarnished as coach of the Denver Broncos for 28 games in 2009 and 2010. If the Patriots envision McDaniels as Bill Belichick’s successor, McDaniels ought to sign up for that right now. And good luck after Tom Brady retires.
When comparing McDaniels to Denver’ Gase, the similarities are that they are young and have the good fortune of caddying for future Hall of Fame quarterbacks. But there is a major difference in their resumes.
Gase has worked for a variety of head coaches: Nick Saban, Steve Mariucci, Dick Jauron, Rod Marinelli, Mike Singletary, McDaniels, and John Fox. Those varied mentors help to broaden Gase’s experience.
McDaniels is typecast as a Belichick lackey -- 11 years under him. His only other experience was one dreadful 2-14 season under St. Louis Rams coach Steve Spagnuolo.
If McDaniels truly wanted to expand his career, he would seek another position under a new head coach to prove he can prosper without Belichick. Otherwise, stay with the Patriots.
* Denver will win the Super Bowl: Take the Seahawks away from Seattle and they are a good, not great, team. Peyton Manning can win anywhere.
Russell Wilson? I don’t think so. He’s a fantastic little quarterback, but he doesn’t have the receivers to compete with Manning’s arsenal.
There will be a lot of talk about Seattle’s top-ranked defense going against Denver’s top-ranked offense. Seattle cornerback Richard Sherman will do a lot of the talking. In the end, offense will prevail. My early take is that Denver will win by two scores.\
http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=27671
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I don't infer, I say it or I don't...
You know the meaning of 'infer', right?
In case you don't, here's your word of the day: infer
Yes, I know the meaning of Infer..
j/c:
--I was very impressed by Denver's game plan yesterday. They had NE off balance all day long. I think that Gase is very, very bright. The negative is that he it appears that he is giving us the cold shoulder. That bothers me, but again, it could be that the media is off-target again.
--I thought McDaniels had a good game plan. I have never seen Brady miss so many easy throws. Was he sick?
--Quinn is a guy I like. He has experience in several different settings and I like that he is a tougher guy. I truly believe that our team is mentally soft after having played for Passive Pat and the laid-back Chud. You could see it late in games and especially late in the season. We were soft.
--Pettine seems to be a lot like Quinn and his defensive record is pretty impressive.
--I don't like Roman. His offenses under-achieve in SF. That team is loaded, yet they still lay eggs, just like yesterday.
--A couple of guys mentioned Del Rio. I was thinking about him, too. He had some success in Jax when his team had talent. He did a good job this year while Fox was out. He is a good defensive coach. Strong personality.
--The tough thing w/coordinators is that while they might be very good coordinators, they might not be HC material. Very hard to tell.
Well, this is a perfect setup, IF indeed Gase and Quinn are our main targets. They virtually "play" against each other in THE championship game, so if we want a good, CC caliber coach, I'd give it to the one "winning" this matchup (and no, it's not necessarily about the final score or outcome, just DC vs OC battle).
May the best Coordinator win….and become the next Browns HC. I really don't mind any of the two or even Pettine. It's not about WHO we hire that will make or break it for me, but the HOW we proceed from there.
--To your first and last points....I have an employee that works for me who I beat out to get my current job. She is my best employee and the person I lean on the most with difficult assignments. She always comes through with a good product. .......AND I will say this ....if she actually had to lead our team, it would go to hell quickly ....she's a good COORDINATOR....she's no HC. I hope Gase completely bombs the interview. I want no part of his passive personality. Actually I hope he doesn't interview at all. And the fact that he can't do two things at once ....interview and coach ...is a huge red flag to me ....he's either indecisive or a wuss or both. I don't care how smart he is or how great his game plans are ....smart people aren't necessarily leaders. And if I were Haslam, I'd be a bit put off by Gase as well. You either want to be here or you don't. Take a hike if you can't seem to figure that out.
--As to your point about Roman, I think he's a bit handcuffed with Kaep. Kaep got exposed this year a bit. He doesn't appear to be able to read coverages. I told my SF buddy yesterday that if I was designing a D to play against Kaep, you keep him in the pocket and make him pass. He's only effective when he's running. When SEA was able to mitigate his running a bit we saw some poor throws that ulitmately turned the game and won it for SEA.
Otherwise, you might end up looking like a BOZO. just don't accuse me of calling you names...btw I never use that term towards posters...just journalist.
Sorry to make you work hard - nice stats. So some statistics didn't match up I see. On the fumbles I am assuming we ran a bit more - considering we won game/s with single digit passing attempts??? Off sides it showed up. Aggressiveness possibly it showed up in that flag total. Stat wise you got me.
All I got is the football players and the visual. Mangini did bring discipline. And it had nothing to do with charging for a bottle of water. Btw - nobody hates to run more than the big fatties lol probably why they adjusted the most on that stats. But see what happens when you discuss utilizing what you know best - stats, better than nothing. Now you made it hard to say it aint so. Damn stats...lol
I wish football was about stats...btw I recommend you look up some Strat-O-Matic football leagues I was shocked when an old friend from FLA asked me to join him in a League recently as in wow they are still around. Not an insult its an old game that I think you would enjoy.
Back to the thread - for some reason I think the guys we are waiting on are.
Seattle DC still forget his name. He played a 4-3 but very attack and utilized many LBs and I saw 7 DBs out there at one time.
The other believe it or not is on Denver but not OC Gase. I think we are waiting for DC Del Rio...he would be a 2nd chance HC with a break from his Jags firing. I liked his defense as well. All we heard was how Brady's line blocked for him in the past playoff game. I so some excellent schemes and the few times Del Rio blitzed they worked/executed. I think he has that well rounded ability to be a good HC. Don't know if we would be a 3-4 or 4-3 but I'm pretty sure it would be attack.
When I state Attack D I'm not talking about all out blitzes and stuff. To simplify lets break Ds down in two categories. Attack n Read & React.
Its how they execute their philosophy regarding the LOS. Attack will penetrate the Gaps in a disciplined manner. Read n react will neutralize the OL and stand pat looking to react to one gap or the other pending on the development of the play.
Btw you can penetrate and have two gap responsibility - most read n react (3-4) the DL has two gap responsibility. But talents like Bryant - JJ Watt (texans) showed why it might be a positive to ATTACK with them rather than Read n React.
Either way both Defensive Schemes I saw attacked the gaps.
I didn't even think Del Rio until I saw how well the D was coached and the players reacted to him and he to them. He never had talent in Jacksonville and it was a drepressing place - NO HOME FANS to speak of.
JMHO not many stats...lol
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I think we are waiting for DC Del Rio...
A really well balanced post, eo. I never considered Del Rio, but you could very well be right. With his previous HC experience, I believe I would prefer him than Gase...
A Del Rio hiring would the last straw for me ..
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I believe coaches going forward to the SB can interview next week if they so choose.
I don't expect Gase to and kind of doubt Quinn will.
They can have second interviews during the off week, not first interviews. So we can talk to Quinn again, we can't touch Gase until after the SB.
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I have a feeling Mike Pettine is the guy. The more I find out about him, the more I like him.
I like your line of thinking, 'Peen. My concern is that if he is indeed our guy, we could have had him signed, sealed, and delivered by now. I can't believe we are waiting this long if he is our guy. Possibly this means that either Gase or Quinn are our true targets...
That doesn't mean we don't want to talk to the others.
I guess what I am saying is he is the guy I want. His dad is a legendary HS coach in Penn, so the kid grew up with football. Was a all state QB in HS, safety in college..... Intense guy....47 years old ( the right age IMO).
I like what I am reading about this guy.
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A Del Rio hiring would the last straw for me ..
That's the second time you've posted that so I'll ask again, why? As I posted before, I think he might do well given another chance. He's certainly fiery, had the Jags competing most years and could turn out to be the kind of coach who excels in his second HC job. So why are you so against the possibility?
Browns | Two could be OC options if Dan Quinn hired Former Washington Redskins offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan and former Houston Texans head coach Gary Kubiak could be offensive coordinator candidates if the Cleveland Browns hire Seattle Seahawks defensive coordinator Dan Quinn as their new head coach.
Source: NFL Network - Ian Rapoport
both of these guys work for Super Bowl teams. I don't see why either of them would give that up to go to the disaster that is the Cleveland Browns.
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both of these guys work for Super Bowl teams. I don't see why either of them would give that up to go to the disaster that is the Cleveland Browns.
More money, more power...
These guys all think they're the greatest thing ever. They think they can be that guy to change things. There's nothing wrong with that.
Some of these guys end up doing it too. Look at the mess Sean Payton walked into...
You can kind of see it changing in St. Louis. The Rams haven't made the next step, but you can already see a different attitude about the way that team plays.
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both of these guys work for Super Bowl teams. I don't see why either of them would give that up to go to the disaster that is the Cleveland Browns.
More money, more power...
These guys all think they're the greatest thing ever. They think they can be that guy to change things. There's nothing wrong with that.
Some of these guys end up doing it too. Look at the mess Sean Payton walked into...
You can kind of see it changing in St. Louis. The Rams haven't made the next step, but you can already see a different attitude about the way that team plays.
I agree ... but conditionally.
A great head coach can do a lot, but only if he has the proper support and/or authority.
If the story about Chud wanting a real FB for his offense, only to be overruled by the front office is true, then this is a huge strike against the team. Is a FB a game changer? Probably not. However, if the front office is willing to overrule their head coach on such a minor part of the team, how will they treat him on larger decisions? All of these seemingly minor things create a bigger picture of the team and how it is run. Will the next head coach be forced to accept square players for round holes? Will the opinion of the front office be more important than that of the coaches when it comes to players, and playing time?
The personnel department should be there to build the team according to the agenda set by the coach and his staff. Drafting players that don't fit, doesn't work. Everyone needs to be on the same page, and the front office needs to accept the head coach's image of what the team should look like more than the opposite.
In the end, a head coach candidate is interviewing the team as much as the opposite takes place. If he doesn't feel that he can succeed in the environment present on the team, then he will likely pass.
JC
Any (well 99%) of the jobs that open yearly are for teams that have some type of issues, be in rooster, cap, schemes, players, fans, owners or FO.
If they didnt they probably would not be looking for a coach... if any perpsective coach is shied away from Cleveland because the FO fired a coach what some perceive as too early or is afraid of the media or the fans ( LOL as if Cleveland fans and media are worse that say Phill's or NY's) then IMO he probably does not have the cajones for the HC job anyway, here or anywhere else and frankly I do not want him.
This alledged waiting for the perfect landing spot is a fairy tale... there are few of these jobs and fewer yet come open every year if you aint got the stones and confidence in your ability to grab for one of these jobs. then stay a coordinator, stay in the background and remove your name form consideration.
I want a guy who has the confidence, the fire, the ability and the smarts to get us going in the right dircetion, if Lombardi or Grossi or the guy in the dawgpound sacre you... pffft stay away.... JMHO... wait a minuite some of the guys in the dawgpound scare me... put you get the drift.
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It's about time to interview Greg Roman.
QFT. 2 weeks to review the bad Quinn decision.
What don't you like about Quinn?
Sorry that I don't go back & look. Another thread 80% bogged down with pointless bickering.
I find his offensive coordinators to be Daboll bad at best.
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--To your first and last points....I have an employee that works for me who I beat out to get my current job. She is my best employee and the person I lean on the most with difficult assignments. She always comes through with a good product. .......AND I will say this ....if she actually had to lead our team, it would go to hell quickly ....she's a good COORDINATOR....she's no HC. I hope Gase completely bombs the interview. I want no part of his passive personality. Actually I hope he doesn't interview at all. And the fact that he can't do two things at once ....interview and coach ...is a huge red flag to me ....he's either indecisive or a wuss or both. I don't care how smart he is or how great his game plans are ....smart people aren't necessarily leaders. And if I were Haslam, I'd be a bit put off by Gase as well. You either want to be here or you don't. Take a hike if you can't seem to figure that out.
This is my thought on Gase as well. He might be a great coordinator, but he doesn't appear to me anyway, ready to be a leader of a team.
Right now, I'm hoping we either land Pettine or Quinn. The more I read and see from those guys, the more I like them to be the leader of the Browns.
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Yes, I know the meaning of Infer..
Well, then you know that you did infer.
Please feel free to start a part 4