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The team won't go through the season without a QB. I don't see them drafting a QB just to draft a QB because the pundits and fans are clamoring for them to do it.
I agree with this.
I disagree with those who seem to think that "all three QB's are worthy of the #4 pick".
I believe all of the QB's in this draft class will be evaluated and we will have a target. I don't buy into the notion that it's an "insert name here" type of thing. Not with such a high and valuable pick.
I believe if someone worthy in their estimation is there at #4, they will use it however. I believe the only way they can convince the fans "we won't be drafting in the top 10 every year" is to win enough games to not be drafting there, not by trading out of it.
But I'm not excluding that they may trade down out of #4 if they don't feel a player worthy of the selection is there.
There may even be a candidate that they would feel is worthy of drafting at #4 but which doesn't fit the system or scheme that they're trying to implement. In such a situation, I don't think you draft a square peg to fit in a round hole just because the talent level is believed to be there.
Could you draft them and try to get them to adjust to the system or scheme you're going to implement? Sure. Or you could try to find a trade partner, acquire more selections in the deal and move on from there.
I get the part of your statement that only winning can solve the problem of not drafting in the Top 10 every year. It's true, but even so, they may start the example after a losing season where the team is drafting in the Top 5 yet again.
You would think, as many times as the Browns have drafted in the Top 5 and Top 10, they'd have top flight players at nearly every position.
As ironic as it may sound, the Browns have actually had more success (yeah, I know, different regimes and what-not) by trading back. We got Mack in 2009 and Phil Taylor in 2011 when our first draft pick was out of the Top 10. In both cases, it was out of the Top 20. They are both really good players.
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ive known several players and or wives that where members of this board, what makes us think there isnt people in the FO here? Im sure Grossi, and MKC could also have accounts here. Its not like we are in some top secret website that is only accesable to fans only.
Bring on FA and the draft because this name calling and pissing contest are getting old.
#brownsgoodkarma
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as a fan, if Teddy is there at #4 and we don't take him or trade down, i'm going to flip.
That is the QB I believe is the best in this class. But what do I know?
Hey, if the FO feels he's the "ONE" and he's there, I sure hope they take him.
Are you confident that they think that he is the 'one' and do you think he'll be there?
I think that he will be there and I don't think that they believe that he is 'the one'.
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like I've said bud ive been right I've been wrong....I'm just sick of all the pissing contest going on. I dont why we all can't come here discuss out Browns without trying to prove how awesome we are. So in a way I agree with what you are saying, I guess I'm just sick of all the fighting that happens here if you don't follow the mob. I stopped posting for the longest time due to always getting jumped if I went against the grain. Seems like its still going on...at the end of the day we are all Browns fans and should respect one another like the big family we are.
#brownsgoodkarma
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and we're in agreement bro. but look what happened, i posted a opinion, and people damn near had a stroke.
or you got the other guy telling him to go root for the chargers cause the poster had an opinion that he didn't agree with.
i'm good with debating opinions, but this bigger stick competition really gets on my nerves. and my personality is i have to fight that crap, so while i understand that i could be part of the problem by feeding them, i can't help it.
but it'll stop when people stop measuring *** all the time.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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I don't see Banner doing it. He traded away two picks in last year's draft (one to Indy and one to Putzburgh) because they didn't see the value in the players available. I don't see him suddenly changing his philosophy this year.
I simply don't see it happening. I more apt to think that they'll wait until later in the first round or later into the draft to draft a QB. Just my guess.
I disagree. I think he made moves in last year's draft and traded TRich to better position himself to take a QB high in this draft.
Fine. I'll take him at his word. Last year, they didn't like the players available at the selections and traded them away for future picks.
How could they figure on trading Richardson? I don't believe that at all. I think their evaluation of Richardson was such that he was expendable at the price offered to them by Indy. When the opportunity presented itself, they jumped at the chance. I'm glad they did. I want someone like that, an opportunist, running the show in Cleveland.
Also, how can you say that they made the moves with the intention to move up to get a QB? With the way things have come to pass, it's very likely that they can get the QB that they want at #4.
They couldn't know how the players would be rated. They couldn't know if there would be a single QB rated highly or a half dozen. It may be the conventional view of pundits and fans, but I don't think it's the view of NFL front office decision-makers.
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i think my first reply was directed more towards everyone more than it was exclusive to just you, so for that I apologize. but stirring this thread back on course there is no way I would offer Washington anything other than a 4th rounder because I dont think he has done anything to improve his value. 1-2 as a starter isnt a ringing endorsment to up his worth imo.
I dont see him as an upgrade over Hoyer, so I see no reason to bring him in. I'd go Bridgewater at 4 if he is there, and still draft Murray in the 4th or 5th round as a developmental player. We dont need a veteran QB, because we have one already in Hoyer. Besides the veteran mentor is/has been overrated. How many of our Mentors have made a difference? I'd take young hungry talent over an aged player looking for a paycheck anyday of the week.
#brownsgoodkarma
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I agree that they valued a 1st over Richardson.
And I think the whole getting another 1st to move up for a QB was an instant reaction, but isn't necessarily what the entire thought process was.
But it's not nothing, you get the extra first because you MIGHT be able to use it to move up if needed, but if not, then you have another first to build with..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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You just need to understand that being a scout for the Browns isn't the life goal for all as it is for you. Even if it was when they were a child it's not hard to turn your back on it. I'm not about to write you a book for my life story but have a little decency.
Opinions are fine. It's a board. But when someone categorizes a big portion of my life as null in void just because I post on a damn board you bet I'll say something. I'm far too passionate to let ignorant views like that go and I really don't care how you feel about it. If you assume you make an ass of yourself.
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and you're still going on about it. i simply called out the people who think they are better than the other posters. i already said this. I NEVER said i wanted to be a scout. ever.
so if i struck a nerve. all well. but its not going to change my opinion, cause at the end of the day. we are fans on a message board.
i wouldn't give more than a 4th for Cousins. thats what they drafted him for, and he hasn't show much to prove he's worth more than that. IMO.
Last edited by Swish; 02/09/14 08:45 PM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Is it a factor that we sought out the trade? We called Indy. No one had any offers on the table. Who knows what value TRich offered until we received it. To me that says our FO was seeking to stockpile picks.
It wasn't the Browns that were actively shopping Richardson. Reports are that they initiated the call to Indy. But, Irsay made it known that they were looking to buy before the Browns made the call to Indy.
Forget the headline below, read the article. It opens with it.
Trent Richardson trade reportedly initiated by Browns
By Chris Wesseling
Around the League Writer
Published: Sept. 19, 2013 at 05:11 p.m.
Updated: Sept. 19, 2013 at 07:09 p.m.
Owner Jim Irsay's legendarily chaotic tweeting paid off for the Indianapolis Colts this week. When Irsay sent out word that his general manager was itching to wheel-and-deal for a running back, it didn't take long for the Cleveland Browns to come calling with an intriguing offer.
Indy were johns looking for a prostitute and the Browns showed them a hooker that they liked.
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ive known several players and or wives that where members of this board, what makes us think there isnt people in the FO here? Im sure Grossi, and MKC could also have accounts here. Its not like we are in some top secret website that is only accesable to fans only.
Bring on FA and the draft because this name calling and pissing contest are getting old.
I'm sure that there are radio personalities that troll these boards. They may not even post here but I've seen the discussions floating about here that either I started or someone else did that mysteriously show up as topics on the radio.
I dare say that PPE should get royalties from it. It is his site and they're stealing from him.
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Is it a factor that we sought out the trade? We called Indy. No one had any offers on the table. Who knows what value TRich offered until we received it. To me that says our FO was seeking to stockpile picks.
It wasn't the Browns that were actively shopping Richardson. Reports are that they initiated the call to Indy. But, Irsay made it known that they were looking to buy before the Browns made the call to Indy.
Forget the headline below, read the article. It opens with it.
Trent Richardson trade reportedly initiated by Browns
By Chris Wesseling
Around the League Writer
Published: Sept. 19, 2013 at 05:11 p.m.
Updated: Sept. 19, 2013 at 07:09 p.m.
Owner Jim Irsay's legendarily chaotic tweeting paid off for the Indianapolis Colts this week. When Irsay sent out word that his general manager was itching to wheel-and-deal for a running back, it didn't take long for the Cleveland Browns to come calling with an intriguing offer.
Indy were johns looking for a prostitute and the Browns showed them a hooker that they liked.
Ah so we did make the initial call as I thought, but it was due to the whole twitter thing. I never heard that was a factor. Thanks man.
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I agree that they valued a 1st over Richardson.
And I think the whole getting another 1st to move up for a QB was an instant reaction, but isn't necessarily what the entire thought process was.
But it's not nothing, you get the extra first because you MIGHT be able to use it to move up if needed, but if not, then you have another first to build with..
Well, I'll concede that point. They have the extra first rounder if they feel the need to move up to get a QB. I don't think they would need to do that and they have the extra first rounder to include.
My take, they liked getting the extra first rounder, no matter where it fell because with the other picks that they have (the Putzburgh 3rd and Indy 4th), they could use those to move that second first round selection further up the first round.
How far could the Browns move that selection up from #26 with that extra 3rd and extra 4th selections? If they're going to use them, that's what I would expect them to do, more than to move up from #4 and give up their second first rounder plus more to do it. I just don't see it happening.
I could, however, see them packing that 2nd first rounder with other picks to move it up the board if they really targeted someone that they felt wouldn't be there. I really don't see that happening either, but I still think it's more likely than moving up from #4. Maybe with the previous regime, that nonsense could be believed. Not with Banner & Co. making the decisions.
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Ah so we did make the initial call as I thought, but it was due to the whole twitter thing. I never heard that was a factor. Thanks man.
Well, Irsay is quite unique in that he openly gets on Twitter and expresses himself. Someone in the Browns organization must have been following him and told Banner. 
But, if I can help, that's what I'll try and do. I thought we were all here to try and help each other understand things better.
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If you value the Trade Value Chart at all..
They could move 26 up to about 15-17
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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If you value the Trade Value Chart at all..
They could move 26 up to about 15-17
I don't really, but okay. Move up from #26 to #15, #16 or #17.
Just a thought to stick in the minds of people. Let's see if the radio gurus pick it up tomorrow.
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If you value the Trade Value Chart at all..
They could move 26 up to about 15-17
If we don't like the 3rd and 4th round we could possibly package for 2nd's as well. My personal hope. I'd love to use the 2 extra picks to get another top 60 pick. Maybe even some future picks. Lombardi is a shadow of the king of future picks.
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Nice, you hijacked yet another thread w/you BS. 
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if thats true. looks like im catching up to your # of threads that you do the same thing, only a few more years and i'll be right up there with you.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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I hijack threads?
Look man, you disrespect me on every thread. You call me a liar. You say I am uniformed. You obviously have zero respect for me.
How about this. Ignore me. And I will gladly ignore you.
Deal?
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thats your third or fourth time posting that, yet you manage to respond directly to me at some point.
if you're gonna ignore me, ignore me already. jeez.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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From what I've seen on the Indy boards they go both ways too...
Reports that other GMs were upset because they would of given up "more than a 1st" are out there too..
From what I remember, the other GMs said that they would have traded their RB for a 1st round pick .... not that they would have given up a 1st for Trent.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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This is why I now see this wherever Swish has posted.
*** You are ignoring this user ***
It isn't worth the mental effort to read his garbage anymore.
If it was just the typical 'tear down the Browns' tripe, I'd deal with it but that isn't what he/she/it posts.
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I don't like seeing the "*** You are ignoring this user *** " within my reading. So I simply scroll past the nonsense posted by that member as well as the posts that obviously respond to whatever ridiculous statement he's made.
I do a lot of scrolling these days.
#gmstrong
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Is it a factor that we sought out the trade? We called Indy. No one had any offers on the table. Who knows what value TRich offered until we received it. To me that says our FO was seeking to stockpile picks.
It wasn't the Browns that were actively shopping Richardson. Reports are that they initiated the call to Indy. But, Irsay made it known that they were looking to buy before the Browns made the call to Indy.
Forget the headline below, read the article. It opens with it.
Trent Richardson trade reportedly initiated by Browns
By Chris Wesseling
Around the League Writer
Published: Sept. 19, 2013 at 05:11 p.m.
Updated: Sept. 19, 2013 at 07:09 p.m.
Owner Jim Irsay's legendarily chaotic tweeting paid off for the Indianapolis Colts this week. When Irsay sent out word that his general manager was itching to wheel-and-deal for a running back, it didn't take long for the Cleveland Browns to come calling with an intriguing offer.
Indy were johns looking for a prostitute and the Browns showed them a hooker that they liked.
Ah so we did make the initial call as I thought, but it was due to the whole twitter thing. I never heard that was a factor. Thanks man.
Nothing surprises me anymore.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I don't like seeing the "*** You are ignoring this user *** " within my reading. So I simply scroll past the nonsense posted by that member as well as the posts that obviously respond to whatever ridiculous statement he's made.
I do a lot of scrolling these days.
I'm not so much like that. I do a bit of scrolling, but I don't mind seeing the '*** You are ignoring this user ***' message. Sometimes, I look to see whose name it is and smile, wondering what it is they said and then chuckling at myself for just continuing with the next messages. I'm glad that I'm not wasting time on them.
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I was really surprised that the Kirk Cousins thread was now on page 5.. then I opened it and found out nobody is talking about Kirk Cousins any more.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
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I don't like seeing the "*** You are ignoring this user *** " within my reading. So I simply scroll past the nonsense posted by that member as well as the posts that obviously respond to whatever ridiculous statement he's made.
I do a lot of scrolling these days.
I'm not so much like that. I do a bit of scrolling, but I don't mind seeing the '*** You are ignoring this user ***' message. Sometimes, I look to see whose name it is and smile, wondering what it is they said and then chuckling at myself for just continuing with the next messages. I'm glad that I'm not wasting time on them.
As I always say, if you feel the need to constantly point out that you're ignoring someone, then you're doing the opposite of ignoring them; you're seeking attention from them.
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I was really surprised that the Kirk Cousins thread was now on page 5.. then I opened it and found out nobody is talking about Kirk Cousins any more.
If the trivial bickering and constant "i'm right you're wrong, even when we're both really wrong" would stop - this place may become a ghost town and noone wouldn't have anything to type
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*** You are ignoring this user ***
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What did you say? I'm ignoring you...
j/k
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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*** You are ignoring this user ***
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There may even be a candidate that they would feel is worthy of drafting at #4 but which doesn't fit the system or scheme that they're trying to implement. In such a situation, I don't think you draft a square peg to fit in a round hole just because the talent level is believed to be there.
Could you draft them and try to get them to adjust to the system or scheme you're going to implement? Sure. Or you could try to find a trade partner, acquire more selections in the deal and move on from there.
I believe we agree there. I do believe that in such a case, a player who simply doesn't fit... ie... a 4-3 DL in a 3-4 scheme, you wouldn't have him as high on your own big board. I believe the square peg in a round hole theory is spot on.
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I get the part of your statement that only winning can solve the problem of not drafting in the Top 10 every year. It's true, but even so, they may start the example after a losing season where the team is drafting in the Top 5 yet again.
You would think, as many times as the Browns have drafted in the Top 5 and Top 10, they'd have top flight players at nearly every position.
I believe the consistent changes in the FO, coaching and schemes are part of the problem combined with overall poor drafting.
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As ironic as it may sound, the Browns have actually had more success (yeah, I know, different regimes and what-not) by trading back. We got Mack in 2009 and Phil Taylor in 2011 when our first draft pick was out of the Top 10. In both cases, it was out of the Top 20. They are both really good players.
I really don't have a problem trading back if they feel there are no players worthy of the selection considering the parameters we discussed. I do know however they will lose a lot of the current fan base if they don't solve the answer at the QB position in short order.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I was really surprised that the Kirk Cousins thread was now on page 5.. then I opened it and found out nobody is talking about Kirk Cousins any more.
Well, there is only so much to say about him before it gets derailed.
Now, about Kirk Cousins, I wouldn't give much for him at all.
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I believe we agree there. I do believe that in such a case, a player who simply doesn't fit... ie... a 4-3 DL in a 3-4 scheme, you wouldn't have him as high on your own big board. I believe the square peg in a round hole theory is spot on.
I would have thought that was obvious to everyone, but it apparently isn't. Sometimes the square peg has rounded corners though.  I guess that might explain it from time to time.
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I believe the consistent changes in the FO, coaching and schemes are part of the problem combined with overall poor drafting.
Well, if the front office was worth a damn, they'd have hired coaches that weren't horrible that showed how incompetent they were in executing their chosen scheme with poor drafting (giving up selections for players you could get if you stood pat).
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I really don't have a problem trading back if they feel there are no players worthy of the selection considering the parameters we discussed. I do know however they will lose a lot of the current fan base if they don't solve the answer at the QB position in short order.
You might be right but I'm not sure they care about what the folks at Dawgtalkers.net or at ClevelandBrowns.com message boards are saying. They probably care even less what the folks are saying on the radio, TV sets or the written media are writing. They'll simply do their jobs and they'll let the likes of the talking heads do their jobs. They'll let the guy in the manufacturing plant do their jobs and not give them advice on how to make the widgets they make.
We all know people that are good at their jobs and others that totally suck and we all wonder how they continue to keep their jobs. When they're fired or let go, we usually say things like 'I saw it coming.' or something like that.
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I was really surprised that the Kirk Cousins thread was now on page 5.. then I opened it and found out nobody is talking about Kirk Cousins any more.
To take this in yet another direction … I think this thread was started because we hired Shanny to be our OC which raises the question: Will we trade for a player that Shanny has coached and likes. We need a Qb and Cousins could be available so 1+1+1=2. So who else might fit that bill? Would we consider trading for Roy Helu? Would anybody want to? For say a 5th rounder? Would the Redskins give him up for a 5th, or would it take more?
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447
Dawg Talker
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OP
Dawg Talker
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I'm not sure I'd give a 5th. Purely because, while I think he has talent, he has had extensive injury risk since joining the league. I suppose if we didn't land a FA RB to committee with a rook I would give up a 5th. Basically if we don't get Toby Gerhart then yes but not more than a 5th. Nothing more, preferably less. 
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Cousins might be in play now.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Cousins might be in play now.
What's your thought process here, Vers? Trying to understand...
Last edited by bbrowns32; 02/11/14 05:32 PM.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kirk Cousins
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