|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447
Dawg Talker
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447 |
That's his plus. He's a smart numbers guy. A glorified accountant. And a damn good one at that. Never should have been a head honcho though.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
I researched Farmer's bio.
He NEVER scouted College ranks. "Only" was a pro personnel scout and later Director of Pro Personnel for the Chiefs from 2006 to 2012. Their records in those seasons were: 9-7, 4-12, 2-14, 4-12, 10-6, 7-9, 2-14 or 38-74 overall.
Somewhat disappointed in that: You don't need to be a scout to be a good GM, but I hope he listens to scouts more than GM's who were scouts themselves.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 51,489 Likes: 723
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 51,489 Likes: 723 |
i dunno DJ
you making it seem like he was coaching those teams. come on man.
especially look at that 2-14 season. how many pro bowlers did they have? yea...he helped pick those players.
it just seems you expect him to coach on the field too, even after you have said RAC wasn't that good of a coach.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Quote:
I'm thrilled. I don't think Jimmy liked TL at all. Banner tied ML to himself as to sink or swim and he sank.
This:
Quote:
This almost screams of a knee-jerk reaction.
How you came to that is beyond me.
Beyond you? Hmmmm.........
If they were so terrible, why didn't he fire them when he fired Chud? It's knee jerk.
And who the hell is ML?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
I know who ML is (Mike Lombardi) but who is TL?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
LOL.............heck, I'm all confused.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,188 Likes: 209
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,188 Likes: 209 |
Quote:
Wow.
I'm now more excited than nervous for the draft.
I have the exact same sentiments
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,848 Likes: 951
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,848 Likes: 951 |
Quote:
jc…
Think this decision was reached by consensus?
 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
especially look at that 2-14 season. how many pro bowlers did they have? yea...he helped pick those players.
Wrong, as he wasn't running the drafts and that's where the PB's came from.
In 2012 he signed CB Routt to a terrible three year deal that paid him 11mil (!!) that season alone. Routt was so bad, they cut him after that season. He's probably still bathing in those 11mil he got, lol. For that money you could have gotten TWO much better starting caliber CBs last FA. He also signed Brady Quinn as a backup QB, who ended up losing lots of games for them and those horrible moves contributed to him getting fired. That and doing next to nothing, not getting any good players in teh two FAs before that....
I'm happy as anyone to get rid of LomBanner, but Farmer has a pretty crappy resumee himself on a different job to boot.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,477 Likes: 162
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,477 Likes: 162 |
Nrtu
I'm sad t the timing of this so close to the draft.... But when is a good time to fire your CEO and gm?
I like the fact that if Hallam thinks its not working that he will go out and try to change... But t the same time I worry that he has either picked guys that obviously didn't work, is getting bad advice on guys that didn't work out, or is settling for guys who haven't worked out or a combination of all three
I like farmer and like the way the organization is set up now...as long as jimmy is not making player decisions I'm cool.... Here's hoping this is the right combination of personel so we don't have to do this again next year
<><
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,573 Likes: 815
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,573 Likes: 815 |
Quote:
What the heck is going on over there? Just when you thought things can't get more whacked? So did Banner or Lambardi fire Chud? If so, I am irate! Is Pettine a Farmer guy? Holy Moly!!
No man.....Haslam is now running the ship.
He went with who the NFL handed him....he was a new owner.....and he went wiht the marshmellow Chud, who again was handed to him....this year.....I am doing what I want and this is my pick.
Go Jimmy.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,462 Likes: 12
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,462 Likes: 12 |
Quote:
i dunno DJ
you making it seem like he was coaching those teams. come on man.
especially look at that 2-14 season. how many pro bowlers did they have? yea...he helped pick those players.
it just seems you expect him to coach on the field too, even after you have said RAC wasn't that good of a coach.
If you mean that the guy on the phone in Radio City helped in the picks,then yes he helped.
Other than that he was on Pro Player side,scouting then Director.
It's your Ray of hope,stick with it.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 51,489 Likes: 723
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 51,489 Likes: 723 |
so Ray was a scout?
Edit: i got it now, thanks.
my bad DJ.
Last edited by Swish; 02/11/14 08:42 PM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 Likes: 83
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 Likes: 83 |
Just a general reply.
Six on one hand, half a dozen on the other.
The only thing I find surprising today is that any long time Dawgtalker would be surprised.
Oh well, good luck, I don't think they will have much success as long as Baltimore and Pittsburgh, (and now Cincinnati) are in their division. ( At least not in one season, which is the new standard.)
I kind of wish Haslem could have found a way, when he first bought the team, to keep, Heckert, and whomever they were. Well at least to have kept Heckert.
It feels like 1999 and a half. Which is better than any time since 2006. Why did they dismantle that 2007 team so fast again?
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Why did they dismantle that 2007 team so fast again?
Because 2007 is a vacuum. It wasn't any good any other year.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,748 Likes: 396
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,748 Likes: 396 |
Quote:
Quote:
What the heck is going on over there? Just when you thought things can't get more whacked? So did Banner or Lambardi fire Chud? If so, I am irate! Is Pettine a Farmer guy? Holy Moly!!
No man.....Haslam is now running the ship.
He went with who the NFL handed him....he was a new owner.....and he went wiht the marshmellow Chud, who again was handed to him....this year.....I am doing what I want and this is my pick.
Go Jimmy.
Giddy up. I'm with you. I think Jimmy will be the best thing to happen to this franchise in a long time.
I've read a number of things that led to Banner and Lombardi's ousting and none of it is surprising if you are the type to connect the dots over the last several months.
I think people should be happy today...not that two people lost their jobs...but that I think Haslam is serious about getting the right people in place and creating an environment and winning culture that people want to be a part of.
Not sure about Farmer, but if he somehow can figure out how to land Bridgewater, I'll be a happy camper.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,323 Likes: 249
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,323 Likes: 249 |
Quote:
Quote:
What the heck is going on over there? Just when you thought things can't get more whacked? So did Banner or Lambardi fire Chud? If so, I am irate! Is Pettine a Farmer guy? Holy Moly!!
No man.....Haslam is now running the ship.
He went with who the NFL handed him....he was a new owner.....and he went wiht the marshmellow Chud, who again was handed to him....this year.....I am doing what I want and this is my pick.
Go Jimmy.
I can't disagree with you at all.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,316
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,316 |
I haven't posted in quite a while as I usually save my time for talking about the real Browns season...the offseason and the draft.
All I can say is what a clusterfudge
I don't know how a franchise could be run any worse over a 15 year timeframe and this is not to say it is a bad move but a WTF were you thinking when you made the hires 12 months ago
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1 |
I don't know which article it was. But it said something along the lines of "Haslem has hired 3 people and fired all three of them"
Which I disagree with.
Haslem didn't "hire" Banner, he was basically given him by the NFL for the work he did on the deal for Jimmy to buy the place. Then Banner brought in Lombardi. And they (IMO) sold Banner a bill of goods on the HC they could bring in, and ended up "settling" for Chud.
And then Jimmy realized it was all a mess. He didn't like the way it was and changed it.
He got rid of Chud, and then brought in Pettine, He got rid of Banner and Lombardi, and I think that's why Farmer didnt go to Miami.
There is a logical setup to our FO now. Not one guy (Banner) doing everything. Its a HC and a GM working together, and along with a President that all report to Haslem. No he's not ganna make decisions. But I feel he will have imput. And should.
The setup is great. Now we find out if they are the right people. And make the right decisions
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,627 Likes: 590
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,627 Likes: 590 |
Quote:
I don't know which article it was. But it said something along the lines of "Haslem has hired 3 people and fired all three of them"
Which I disagree with.
Haslem didn't "hire" Banner, he was basically given him by the NFL for the work he did on the deal for Jimmy to buy the place. Then Banner brought in Lombardi. And they (IMO) sold Banner a bill of goods on the HC they could bring in, and ended up "settling" for Chud.
And then Jimmy realized it was all a mess. He didn't like the way it was and changed it.
He got rid of Chud, and then brought in Pettine, He got rid of Banner and Lombardi, and I think that's why Farmer didnt go to Miami.
There is a logical setup to our FO now. Not one guy (Banner) doing everything. Its a HC and a GM working together, and along with a President that all report to Haslem. No he's not ganna make decisions. But I feel he will have imput. And should.
The setup is great. Now we find out if they are the right people. And make the right decisions
I agree to some extent. However - I have ZERO problem with Haslam as a new owner hiring 3 people - realizing they are not running his team they way he wants - and firing them. To me that's him looking in the mirror and owning his mistakes and airing his laundry in public. He's taken his lumps, taken action, wants to do it right ASAP without any regard to how the media will play it. Kudos to him.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,412 Likes: 446
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,412 Likes: 446 |
Quote:
That's his plus. He's a smart numbers guy. A glorified accountant. And a damn good one at that. Never should have been a head honcho though.
That's true of most "numbers" guys. There has to be someone in charge other than a numbers guy.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,627 Likes: 590
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,627 Likes: 590 |
Quote:
Quote:
I'm thrilled. I don't think Jimmy liked TL at all. Banner tied ML to himself as to sink or swim and he sank.
This:
Quote:
This almost screams of a knee-jerk reaction.
How you came to that is beyond me.
Beyond you? Hmmmm.........
If they were so terrible, why didn't he fire them when he fired Chud? It's knee jerk.
And who the hell is ML?
So explain to me how it's kneee jerk to wait and watch how things play out....
Chud was Banner's choice right? You were right behind Chud being let go right? So he wasn't the right guy for the job..... 2013 draft was anemic on impact players or starters - that's on Banner right? Failing to get any of the "top" HC prospects to come to Cleveland (and possibly hearing through Peyton Manning that the reason was Banner) is on Banner right .... so why is it knee jerk to look at his FO and say its not working how I want and I am going to change it..... to me that's called making good sense.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
I wasn't behind him firing Chud. I stated I was disappointed in the move. I said they either hired the wrong guy or fired him too quickly.
My argument was against all the "woe is me" crowd who kept crying about being lied to. I also said that Chud's record wasn't that great.
Right now.......I guess what is running through my head the most is that there are so many people who were screaming bloody murder about Haslam being a liar, the importance of continuity, us being a laughingstock for firing a HC after one year are now ignoring those same arguments and are celebrating a very similar move.
Hypocritical nonsense.
And your argument for not being a knee jerk move is ridiculous.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 305 Likes: 1
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 305 Likes: 1 |
Nah, this wasn't a knee jerk reaction. Good move by Haslam... feel much better (don't read that as feeling great... just not as bad lol).
I think Haslam had been taking stock of what was going on in Berea and didn't like how it was going. I think that culminated with this last HC hiring process. I think Haslam was not impressed at all with how that went... how could he be? I really think that was the last straw and so he made the move. Good for him. I like the structure in place now.
Now, this is the only muligan Haslam gets. There can't be any further significant upheaval and if there is then I'll retrack all this and conclude Haslam is a mess. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt though because I really like Farmer and the coaching staff in place now seem pretty good. Just don't blow it up again lol.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,627 Likes: 590
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,627 Likes: 590 |
Quote:
I wasn't behind him firing Chud. I stated I was disappointed in the move. I said they either hired the wrong guy or fired him too quickly.
My argument was against all the "woe is me" crowd who kept crying about being lied to. I also said that Chud's record wasn't that great.
Right now.......I guess what is running through my head the most is that there are so many people who were screaming bloody murder about Haslam being a liar, the importance of continuity, us being a laughingstock for firing a HC after one year are now ignoring those same arguments and are celebrating a very similar move.
Hypocritical nonsense.
And your argument for not being a knee jerk move is ridiculous.
I think there were probably many many factors that went into Haslams decision and without knowledge of any of them - and only speculation to go on - its impossible to put a winning argument forward one way or another.
My simple scenario is this - Even if you have stated you want continuity (based on previous constant turnover and turmoil) as the owner of the Browns if you look and see that the leadership of the team from Banner down is 100% not what you wanted or envisioned after one year and you are convinced the people in place will NOT turn the franchise around ----- and knowing that any change will get you vilified by nearly all the media and at least half your fan base .... what would you do?
Now add to that an impending potential indictment that could temporarily prevent you from making the decision you want to make once those proceedings start ... .what do you do?
I wanted Chud to be given the opportunity to succeed - which he wasnt. But I like the direction of the new regime more than I could have under the old regime.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,767
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,767 |
If I've got an inkling of a feeling that something will never be right I'm not waiting three to five years to prove it to myself.
These two seemed to be lightening rods for controversial issues from the start. If I'm the owner I'm ridding myself of the problems. The media can say what they wish (they will anyway) Jimmy made a good move today.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
That's fine. I hope it works out.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,528 Likes: 6
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,528 Likes: 6 |
Firing Lombardi may be the only smart thing Haslam has accomplished since he bought the Browns. I didnt have an issue with Banner other than him hiring Lombardi. Anyway Lerner didnt want to run the browns so he did need a team president. Haslam wants to run the Browns so there is no need for a team president.
Banner is a backstabber and he has irked a lot of people with the playing stuff through the media. leaking that chud would be fired before the last game, was just classless. Him telling Chud who to play, is no good.
I cracked up when i read LaCanfora saying he wasnt ripping on Haslam because he was losing a source lol. Leak got plugged. Browns are better for it. Lets hope Haslam has it right this time cause with all this chaos and we may be starting a rookie Qb, whats gonna happen if we win 2 games? lol
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 181 Likes: 4
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 181 Likes: 4 |
Quote:
Pretty sure it was a JH majority of one. Must have been a lot of blockage or frustration. Banner may have overreached? Must have been a lot building for awhile or one big blowup. I want to know more. 
I think Haslam took the NFL's advise on start up. Watched, dealt with the Pilot thing, and gave Banner/Lombardi enough rope to hang themselves. I was thinking something was up when reading draft stuff, and the only name I saw was Farmers. When he turned away from Miami and Shanahan suddenly said ok, I think Pettine, Farmer and Shany had been assured the egomaniacs would be gone. Thanks Jimmy. Just my .02
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Just listened to Farmer's PC. So, we are back to the GM choosing the 53 man roster. Great. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030 |
My issue is the same as it was with Chud....knee jerk. As we had discussed after Chud's canning, Haslem made that call not Banner or Lombardi after the poor way we finished the season. I had no real love for Chud, and wasn't upset he was gone, but was not happy with the knee jerk reaction. I think he made the same call on Banner/Lombardi. He heard negative things in the media and some league types he trusted and made a hasty decision. I'm not unhappy either is gone, and Farmer is at least well thought of throughout the league it appears (though we've seen that before). My issue is the pattern we are seeing here with Haslem.
He is either a rookie owner who realized he screwed up setting up his ENTIRE staff and fired them quickly......or is an utter idiot in the Jones mode. Time will tell us I supposed.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,323 Likes: 249
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,323 Likes: 249 |
Quote:
Just listened to Farmer's PC.
What did he say in regards to the QB position?
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,462 Likes: 12
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,462 Likes: 12 |
I haven't the faith that Haslam has the wherewithal to pull himself out of the mess that he created.
The only glimmer of hope in this bad Abbott and Costello routine of a franchise is the hiring of Kuharach.A gentleman and a football scholar.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447 |
Quote:
Quote:
Just listened to Farmer's PC.
What did he say in regards to the QB position?
In a vid I saw of him he talked extensively about how the ability to react to information(reading D's, adjustments, etx) is the most important factor in a QB. While everyone want's one of the top6-8 QB's who can win a game on their own your lucky if you do and if you build your team the right way there's no reason you can't be just as successful with an intelligent game manager.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 181 Likes: 4
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 181 Likes: 4 |
Quote:
Just listened to Farmer's PC.
So, we are back to the GM choosing the 53 man roster. Great.
Was it Lombardi and Banner in charge of the roster ? It may be better now. Guess all we can do is wait and see. Again
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,856
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,856 |
Quote:
Just listened to Farmer's PC.
So, we are back to the GM choosing the 53 man roster. Great.
beats the heck out of having a president do it, or a consensus of Banner and Lombardi.
I'll take Farmer over either of those scenarios
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,856
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,856 |
Quote:
I haven't the faith that Haslam has the wherewithal to pull himself out of the mess that he created.
The only glimmer of hope in this bad Abbott and Costello routine of a franchise is the hiring of Kuharach.A gentleman and a football scholar.
I have more faith today than I did yesterday
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 26,822 Likes: 460
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 26,822 Likes: 460 |
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,188 Likes: 209
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,188 Likes: 209 |
Saw that video. Liked what he had to say.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 901
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 901 |
JC
HOLYCOW!!! I just got off work (Alaska time) and couldn't talk to anyone about this. I am super happy. I hoped Banner and Lombardi would work out.......but in my heart of hearts I didn't think they would. I am glad that football people are in charge for the most part (Haslem excepted) where I like to see them.
I agree with many that I'm way more optimistic today than I was yesterday.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Joe Banner to Step Down; Mike
Lombardi Fired; Ray Farmer
Promoted to GM
|
|
