Joe Banner to Step Down; Mike Lombardi Fired; Ray Farmer Promoted to GM

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What a complete cluster. I am amazed at the total ineptness that this portrays. Just when I think they can't surprise me, they go and do it once again.

It's either Ineptness or brilliant. Time will tell. I don't know many that were pleased with the Lombardi or Banner hire last year . I wasn't. But I warmed to them as the year went on after seeing some of the moves they made..

For me, they tanked with the firing of Chud and his staff. So man, I don't know what happened but wow, this was just out of nowhere. Didn't see this coming. I thought they'd be the scapegoats next season if we failed next year.

Wow. Whats going on? Is Jim Haslem and Dan Gilbert playing a game? Who to fire next? Lmao.

This is unexpected.

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Agreed, I still am of the feeling this is a good thing and we have youthful leadership in place with Farmer, Pettine and Scheiner.... I got no problem with Haslam finally putting HIS stamp on HIS team... about time in my book

What? He had that chance the first time around, and he apparently got EVERY major personnel decision wrong. So wrong that they only lasted ONE season. Who in the hell trusts this guy now? I was willing to give him a chance. I'm done. He is in way over his head from what I see.

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For me, they tanked with the firing of Chud and his staff. So man, I don't know what happened but wow, this was just out of nowhere. Didn't see this coming. I thought they'd be the scapegoats next season if we failed next year.

Ding... Ding... we have a winner!!!..

Old Jimmy slick did not like how that entire espisode went down. Jimmy thought he was getting some great coach that Banner/Lombardi told him they would get but they ended up with another asst coach wanna be!!

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I was just thinking the other day how nice it would be if we had Farmer as GM instead of Dumbardi.

So which draft pick are you thinking

Then gimme lottery numbers...

Not sure yet, still doing research.

The lottery numbers are 1 to 49.

Okay, I'm a bit surprised at the overall tone here.

I understand that we need continuity and am a proponent. However, I did not like the Lombardi hire and have not liked his moves to this point. So, I would only hope the talent evaluation goes up from here.

Banner I was more iffy on. I didn't like him sitting on cap money last offseason with glaring holes, but our business moves more or less seemed to work out okay. My guess is that the vision he sold Haslam on last offseason fell on its face and Haslam had all of this planned out since December.

Also, Ward & Mack not being signed despite that money and now having big years and going to cost much more $$$ to retain likely played a small part as well.

Anyways, Farmer and Scheiner were considered great hires when we got them. Let's hope that our young faces in Farmer/Scheiner/Pettine are just what this team needed.

Well......

CongratS, farmer?

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Wow. Whats going on? Is Jim Haslem and Dan Gilbert playing a game? Who to fire next? Lmao.

Ha ha ha....I LOL'd.

Mike Brown just turned off his phone.

The Indians are Cleveland's most stable franchise, and might have the best owner.

Jason Cole reporting the Banner and Lombardi not being able to deliver on the coaching search sunk them. Apparently, Banner and Lombardi couldn't deliver their guy to Haslam for the HC position. Is there some truth in McDaniels turning us down? It will be very interesting to hear what comes out after the fact.

I for one, like the Scheiner, Farmer and Pettine team.

Jason Cole

This is an interesting thought that is being discussed on WKNR right now.

When Chud was fired, Banner and Lombardi were unable to produce any of the candidates that they told Haslam they could be replace Chud... The announcer is saying t hat may have sealed their fate.

Not sure if that's true or if it's just what is being bantered around. I doubt we ever know that for sure but it's an interesting take just the same

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But I just bought my new Three Stooges T-shirt . . . .

Poopy.

Hey now it's acollectors item.

I have one too, i told my son watch as soon as we buy any jersey or shirt that player is gone... banner is on borrowed time... if I only knew.

Daman, I just posted the link to the story you discussed above your post.

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Jason Cole reporting the Banner and Lombardi not being able to deliver on the coaching search sunk them. Apparently, Banner and Lombardi couldn't deliver their guy to Haslam for the HC position. Is there some truth in McDaniels turning us down? It will be very interesting to hear what comes out after the fact.

I for one, like the Scheiner, Farmer and Pettine team.

Jason Cole

LOL I just typed the same thing.....funny

From the Canton Repository's Steve Doerschuk:

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What happened. We hear Lombardi kept pushing for McDaniels to be HC, creating rift with Banner. Haslam lost appetite for rifts.

Link

I think we just typed it at the same time.

Here's a report that Lombardi was going to be out if Adam Gase had been hired. Take it for what it's worth.

Ian Rapoport

For hilarities sake I hope he fires Pettine and hires Quinn.

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I am sure a lot of this has to do with the thinking on the QB position.

Sam, Sam, Sam, Sam, Sam, Sam, ....

The timing suggests it may have had more to do with their thinking on Sam. Maybe they fell for the "The media will love us if we pick Sam with our first pick" line. Maybe Rich Eisen and John Feinstein had convinced them that if we have Sam play quarterback all would be forgiven on the Chud deal.

I guess I may get a three to four minute break from being constantly told how bad everybody is who doesn't believe exactly everything you are being told to believe on the Sam company line. I'm not sure what I would believe if I didn't have sports journalists telling me what and how to think.

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For hilarities sake I hope he fires Pettine and hires Quinn.

lol

Plain and simple it was reported from many people that the word from interviewies for the HC job were saying the entire Front office team seemed to be not on the same page and very dysfunctional.

Jimmy probably didn't like how the search went down and the feedback he was getting from league sources. So he cleaned house.

Lombardi pushing for McDaniels....justification for being fired right there.

Folks make your own mind up about these next few tweets as they are from an unverified account, but this guy has been spot on and ahead of all the news reports when it comes to Browns inside info. Thought this was very interesting on the reasoning behind the Banner ousting…again draw your own conclusions.

Haslam Meeting w/ Manning

Manning To Haslam

Wow. At least we know Haslam isn't afraid to stir up a bit of dust. And for some odd reason I'm OK with this. I predict it'll be much easier to re-sign Mack now. My take on Farmer is that he's a bit of a bad-ass. And I mean that in the best possible way. He's a football man, not a business man.

What we need is an open bar for a couple hours before the press conference. That would make it terribly exciting.

JC

Ok everybody line up... whoever liked the just disposed of FO will need to be on the I hate the new FO side of the aisle and vice versa.

The dissatisfied now become the hopeful, the once hopeful now the down and out.

This is gonna be a gas ....

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I predict it'll be much easier to re-sign Mack now.

Just said the same thing to a Co-Worker. Re-Sign Mack, Franchise Ward. To move forward we cannot lose/need to replace two key positions.

Holy Schenikes! Good for you Haslem!

1. I think we now see why Farmer didn't take the gig in Miami. I'm betting Haslam had words with him about his future here, which is why he was quoted as saying "I'm excited about the future, yada, yada, yada".

2. Lombardi is GONE!! To use a famous quote: Ding, dong, the witch is dead!

3. Banner is gone -- Icing on the cake. Never trusted the guy, nor his abilities as a football guy. Perhaps he is the great bean counter he is reported as being, but that doesn't make for good football decisions or good talent evaluations.

Ray Farmer, come on down!! You're the next contestant on "Who's Leading the Browns??!?".

Best wishes to you Ray. At least you have the chops and credentials to lead this thing - now we get to see if you can.

jc

PFT & NFL Network seem to think we should be concerned that Farmer wasn't in on the Pettine interview/hire. Think it could easily mean him wanting his OWN coach next year.

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Folks make your own mind up about these next few tweets as they are from an unverified account, but this guy has been spot on and ahead of all the news reports when it comes to Browns inside info. Thought this was very interesting on the reasoning behind the Banner ousting…again draw your own conclusions.

Haslam Meeting w/ Manning

Manning To Haslam

I've come to the conclusion that CONCEDE has legit sources with the team. He's almost always spot on or close enough. There have been a few theories to who he is or at least connected to...

Follow him and Keith Britton (92.3 producer) before you follow Grossi/MKC or any other Browns reporter. Those two are far ahead with getting information.

I'm sure everyone has their guess to how this played out.

My theory is that Joe Banner was hooked up with Jimmy by the NFL and I don't know what the requirements are by that, but maybe he just never really liked the guy to begin with?

Ray Farmer gets rave reviews around the league, starts flirting with Miami, and then all of a sudden says he's staying with the Browns in an assistant role?

My guess is Jimmy told him this job is yours if you just stay put and keep quiet. It is interesting that he was down at the Senior Bowl before his Miami interview though.

JH goes to Banner and says he's getting rid of Lombardi, and JB says he wants out.

Do we even need another person to fill JB's spot. Can we just let Farmer handle personnel, and Sheiner the business side of it, and just let JH overlook it. Why go top heavy? All Joe Banner did was drive away potential coaching candidates over the last 2 years. And Richardson. I'll give him that.

It's never good to fire front office people but it seems like this may have played out as well as it could.

I just wonder how it works with our scouts now. I mean they were just hired right? Do they get shown the door?

I love it! Now we have a hopeful future. Remember, Farmer turned down an opportunity to be Miami's GM, a decent up and coming team. It may seem bleak on the surface, but this is a blessing.

JC:

Can't wait to read Jason LaConfora's next article.

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jc

PFT & NFL Network seem to think we should be concerned that Farmer wasn't in on the Pettine interview/hire. Think it could easily mean him wanting his OWN coach next year.

I think Pettine was a Haslam hire plain and simple.... as a result he stays as long as JH wants him. JMHO

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The purpose of these moves is to unify our team with one, unequivocal goal: Provide our fans with the winning organization they have long deserved.”

I think this statement by Haslam says it all. Sounds to me like Lombardi and Banner did not work very well together. And reading just some of the reports, their "concensus" was lacking. I like the move. Farmer is a great move for GM, and with Scheiner as President, I feel the FO will be more capable.

I also get a feeling that the upcoming draft and FA period was becoming a problem within the ranks. Banner is an egomaniac, and for all purposes, Lombardi seemed to be a missing person. Too many hands in the fire.

We have a good young coaching staff, and I feel that they need more say in process of bringing in players they need. I get the feeling that Haslam was getting tired of the dysfunction, and pulled the trigger. Some will blast him for doing it so soon, but with what happened with the firing of Chud, and the comments Norv made, I believe Haslam felt these guys were controlling things too much in areas that the staff should have had more input.

I'm sure Haslam saw what we saw last year. The questions about not picking up a QB when Hoyer went down, The not replacing Richardson, and the failure to land the coaches they wanted.

The timing is perfect as I see it. Get these two out before they screw up what we be a pivotal draft and FA period for this team. I think these guys were overstepping their bounds as far as trying to control what players the coaches wanted and who played. I really feel now, that Lombardi was just a pawn for Banner. Banner came across as if he needed no one but himself to run this team.

Many are bashing Haslam, but I don't think he is the boob many make him out to be. Banner needed to stay on the business side, and leave football operations to the GM and the coaches. I think Scheiner is a gem, and knows his part in the deal. I also think now that Farmer is the GM, and is being reported as getting along with Pettine, will make football decisions getting made quicker, and with the proper people calling the shots.

Screw the "consensus', let Farmer run the football operations and Scheiner handle the other side. Pettine has got to have more say than Chud got. Haslam, IMO, nipped this in the bud, before it steam rolled into more dysfunction.

j/c

I am troubled by the fact that Banner will be around through May. "You're fired! Pack your bags....very slowly!" Will he be responsible for the Mack and Ward contracts?

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The purpose of these moves is to unify our team with one, unequivocal goal: Provide our fans with the winning organization they have long deserved.”

I think this statement by Haslam says it all. Sounds to me like Lombardi and Banner did not work very well together. And reading just some of the reports, their "concensus" was lacking. I like the move. Farmer is a great move for GM, and with Scheiner as President, I feel the FO will be more capable.

I also get a feeling that the upcoming draft and FA period was becoming a problem within the ranks. Banner is an egomaniac, and for all purposes, Lombardi seemed to be a missing person. Too many hands in the fire.

We have a good young coaching staff, and I feel that they need more say in process of bringing in players they need. I get the feeling that Haslam was getting tired of the dysfunction, and pulled the trigger. Some will blast him for doing it so soon, but with what happened with the firing of Chud, and the comments Norv made, I believe Haslam felt these guys were controlling things too much in areas that the staff should have had more input.

I'm sure Haslam saw what we saw last year. The questions about not picking up a QB when Hoyer went down, The not replacing Richardson, and the failure to land the coaches they wanted.

The timing is perfect as I see it. Get these two out before they screw up what we be a pivotal draft and FA period for this team. I think these guys were overstepping their bounds as far as trying to control what players the coaches wanted and who played. I really feel now, that Lombardi was just a pawn for Banner. Banner came across as if he needed no one but himself to run this team.

Many are bashing Haslam, but I don't think he is the boob many make him out to be. Banner needed to stay on the business side, and leave football operations to the GM and the coaches. I think Scheiner is a gem, and knows his part in the deal. I also think now that Farmer is the GM, and is being reported as getting along with Pettine, will make football decisions getting made quicker, and with the proper people calling the shots.

Screw the "consensus', let Farmer run the football operations and Scheiner handle the other side. Pettine has got to have more say than Chud got. Haslam, IMO, nipped this in the bud, before it steam rolled into more dysfunction.

QFT !

Very well put.

I cant stop smiling.....I am more pumped now than I have been for a long time.

J/C
I think Haslem needs to shave his head and request all the players do as well. The whole organization will look like some serious tough guys. Bald owner, bald GM, bald HC...... I could be on to something here

Wow what a mess.

Not that I am going to miss Lombardi and Banner but just tired of the constant change. It is pretty clear Jimmy is out of his element as an owner, when he can get one of the major front positions filled with someone he can trust.

Might as well just get rid of pettine now since he and Farmer aren't going to be on the same page. It might spare us from having to go through this again next year.

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I think we just typed it at the same time.

Here's a report that Lombardi was going to be out if Adam Gase had been hired. Take it for what it's worth.

Ian Rapoport

Yeah, it looks like it ,....

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j/c

I am troubled by the fact that Banner will be around through May. "You're fired! Pack your bags....very slowly!" Will he be responsible for the Mack and Ward contracts?

valid concerns... but he is a toothless leader now... I assume he can have input but not final say ..imo

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jc

PFT & NFL Network seem to think we should be concerned that Farmer wasn't in on the Pettine interview/hire. Think it could easily mean him wanting his OWN coach next year.

I think Pettine was a Haslam hire plain and simple.... as a result he stays as long as JH wants him. JMHO

Regardless of all of that, we'll cross that bridge when we get there. For the here and now, it's his gig - if he does well, he'll get to keep the job, if he doesn't, then this scenario could play out. I'd say that Pettine is in the driver's seat.

That said, if I were him, I'd be having a conversation with Farmer about what the expectations are and by what metrics success will be measured.

WOW!!

My first reaction is: I'm glad. Never felt comfortable about Banner or Lombardi. Had serious doubts about their ability to evaluate talent.

In addition, I felt Banner's reputation within the inner circle of NFL players and executives was suspect.

When the the whole Chud thing went down it was clear that the air within Berea was foul.

Professional mistrust is toxic to an organization. When Chud got axed and the search began for a new coach it was clear that something was amiss. It appeared that the guys that they wanted bailed.

Haslam had to get word from people within the league that the perception of Banner and Lombardi was not good. That ultimately it would have a negative effect on signing free agents and the draft.

Haslam has his own baggage but I give him credit for making this move now.

Ray Farmer in my opinion will be a good GM. He has come up through the ranks and earned this chance.

Now I have more faith in free agency and the draft.

Go Browns.

And there's probably some things that need to be finalized that you don't want to try to just hand off to someone else. The financial side of things likely needs some transition time.

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I also think now that Farmer is the GM, and is being reported as getting along with Pettine, will make football decisions getting made quicker, and with the proper people calling the shots.

This is definitely shocking news but I think this is a big reason. Banner and Lombardi were maybe clashing with Pettine already over draft picks, our FA's or something and Haslam got fed up. Especially the part about Farmer and Pettine being on the same page. JMO

Anyhow Good luck Ray Farmer!

jc

Source: Haslam wanted to give the reins to Farmer

Posted by Mike Florio on February 11, 2014, 11:16 AM EST

On Tuesday morning, teams were going about their ordinary offseason business, engaging in meetings regarding the draft and free agency.

And then came the news that Browns owner Jimmy Haslam had fired CEO Joe Banner and G.M. Mike Lombardi. In at least one NFL city, the shock brought the meetings to a halt.

It’s largely unprecedented for any NFL team to engage in so much turnover in such a short time, and the abrupt nature of the decision to dump Banner and Lombardi is sparking all sorts of speculation about what happened.

Per a league source, here’s what happened. Owner Jimmy Haslam decided that Lombardi had to go. Haslam also decided that assistant G.M. Ray Farmer deserved to have full control over the football operation, unfettered by Banner’s authority over the football side of the organization.

So with Alec Scheiner running the business side of the organization and Farmer now in charge of the football operation, there was no need for Banner to stay.

The signs of a short-fused Haslam emerged a year ago, when Haslam decided to return to his “first love” at Pilot Flying J and bounced the man Haslam had hired from PepsiCo to run the company while Haslam was focusing completely on the Browns. It was Haslam, we’re told, who decided to fire coach Rob Chudzinski after one year. And now Haslam has fired Lombardi and Banner.

So, over the last 18 months, Haslam has made four key hires in his two primary businesses. And he has fired all four of them. Does that say more about the men who were hired, or about the men who hired them?

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Wow what a mess.

Not that I am going to miss Lombardi and Banner but just tired of the constant change. It is pretty clear Jimmy is out of his element as an owner, when he can get one of the major front positions filled with someone he can trust.

Might as well just get rid of pettine now since he and Farmer aren't going to be on the same page. It might spare us from having to go through this again next year.

I disagree.. I se this as haslam making this his element and putting his stamp on it.... he saw the dysfunction, the inability to get a HC, the hiring / firing, the national perception, the GM in absentia and he saw a bright up and comer in Farmer and a Great business man in Scheiner... no need to look further, pull the trigger and make it right. Give us direction, give us leadership and not tell us we will be great becaiuse I was great in Phillie.

Farmer and Pettine... Pettine was a JH hire IMO and he will stay.... I think Farmer unlike a past GM is smart enough to put a plan in and has the balls to play it out.

I'm surprised at the negative comments.

These guys have been a DISASTER! they turned in one of the worst drafts we could imagined, they completely screwed the HC fire/hire up and they reduced the Browns organization's image to a radiactive mess.

The straw that broke the bullet proof vest for Lombanner? When some media hack sat there and called the billionaire owner a stooge. I bet you that was the first time anyone had ever said anything like that to the arrogant Haslam. And THAT was when Haslam started o look critically at the job Lombanner did.

And anyone with a critical eye could see that they absoulutely SUCKED last year.

Never mind the draft, but the in season moves were horrible. And they blamed the whole thing on Chud.

This is a good thing and I finally feel that we are on the right track.

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jc

Source: Haslam wanted to give the reins to Farmer

Posted by Mike Florio on February 11, 2014, 11:16 AM EST

On Tuesday morning, teams were going about their ordinary offseason business, engaging in meetings regarding the draft and free agency.

And then came the news that Browns owner Jimmy Haslam had fired CEO Joe Banner and G.M. Mike Lombardi. In at least one NFL city, the shock brought the meetings to a halt.

It’s largely unprecedented for any NFL team to engage in so much turnover in such a short time, and the abrupt nature of the decision to dump Banner and Lombardi is sparking all sorts of speculation about what happened.

Per a league source, here’s what happened. Owner Jimmy Haslam decided that Lombardi had to go. Haslam also decided that assistant G.M. Ray Farmer deserved to have full control over the football operation, unfettered by Banner’s authority over the football side of the organization.

So with Alec Scheiner running the business side of the organization and Farmer now in charge of the football operation, there was no need for Banner to stay.

The signs of a short-fused Haslam emerged a year ago, when Haslam decided to return to his “first love” at Pilot Flying J and bounced the man Haslam had hired from PepsiCo to run the company while Haslam was focusing completely on the Browns. It was Haslam, we’re told, who decided to fire coach Rob Chudzinski after one year. And now Haslam has fired Lombardi and Banner.

So, over the last 18 months, Haslam has made four key hires in his two primary businesses. And he has fired all four of them. Does that say more about the men who were hired, or about the men who hired them?

Very Very optimistic about this.

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j/c

I am troubled by the fact that Banner will be around through May. "You're fired! Pack your bags....very slowly!" Will he be responsible for the Mack and Ward contracts?

valid concerns... but he is a toothless leader now... I assume he can have input but not final say ..imo

I would have to think the same. Nobody ever makes this type of shift without the power transfer being immediate (hence, Farmer promoted). Banner may remain, but my guess is that it is as much a contractual issue as anything else.

bring Chud back as the OC

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So who is Farmer?

Ba - Da Da - Rum - Pa, Bum - Bum - Bum.

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bring Chud back as the OC

He's a Colt. Assistant head coach.

Haslam isn't going to throw Lombardi or Banner under the bus. He used them for a year to figure out where he stood. Now he doesn't think he needs them any more.

He's making it very clear as far as who's in charge. I strongly suspect he didn't get that loving from the previous front office personnel. You pay all that money for a team you expect to be in charge. He is now.

It was only a matter of time. Glad it only took this long.

For how chaotic it is to go firing everyone I am finding this firing pretty relieving.

Fun thing to ponder for the future. Will Haslam's Tennessee ties help us land Manning as an OC in the future? That would make me happy

Ya, things were getting a little boring around Browns Town so nothing like some firings to stir up the ole' laughing pot!

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For how chaotic it is to go firing everyone I am finding this firing pretty relieving.

Fun thing to ponder for the future. Will Haslam's Tennessee ties help us land Manning as an OC in the future? That would make me happy

There is clearly more to this than we are being told or will ever be told.. Speculation is running rampant, but in the end, if we win, all is forgotten..

Man I love watching jimmy when he gets asked a question he doesn't like. Love watching him live all po'd

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For how chaotic it is to go firing everyone I am finding this firing pretty relieving.

Fun thing to ponder for the future. Will Haslam's Tennessee ties help us land Manning as an OC in the future? That would make me happy

There is clearly more to this than we are being told or will ever be told.. Speculation is running rampant, but in the end, if we win, all is forgotten..

All forgotten?!

If this works, he'll be a god.

First reaction: WOW!!

Second reaction: Wish I be there to watch Vers' head explode when he hears this. Let the spinning begin.......

Surprising and yet not so surprising

My entire beef with the firing of Chud was Huh...the FO did not do a thing in personnel to the effect that we were going all out to WIN NOW...why hold Chud accountable. I always thought the firing was a Haslam thing cause the FO added just as much to the status of us playing for the long term than win now.

1. We are keeping Banner till may to get most of the Bean counter duties done.
2. We will not be the laughing stock for the simple reason Farmer is considered one of the Brightest up n comers for GM out there. He has been here for the entire tenure of this new FO and now is the HEAD that will work hand in hand with PETTINE the HC...that is what you need. HC n GM working together and quite frankly I think Farmer is way more talented than Lombardi.

My personal fear was us losing Farmer as I thought he was the obvious to take over for Lombardi who I thought was on thin ICE.

3. We need the Bean counter and I think we got him here already.

This is Haslam's baby - he listened to the NFL probably telling him to get somebody to do it right and follow their lead. And now Haslam got mad as he stormed out of the Jets owner booth - angry he took it out on Chud and staff but there was residual effect so that all were on thin ice. Then came the search for the NEW HC...Lombardi was locked in with McDaniel we all knew that...Haslam was the lead with the Gase interest. The sparks flew I'm sure.

But too many Chefs will ruin the soup. I'm glad we have CONTINUITY in Farmer...we got our new HC. Farmer was the one sent to follow TEXAS A&M QB Farmer was the one asked to evaluate most of the other QBs. Farmer was asked to go to the Senior Bowl. To the Combine. I got more of a vibe that Farmer and Pettine can work together. Part of the failures of last season was Chud and Lombardi not working together.

Once Hoyer went down and we would need to get some success from Running the ball what did we get? Chud reportedly asked for a FB not a tough request you can get quality off the streets for that position. Lombardi refused the request and that is not how a GM and the HC works together!

Hey if Haslam is going to take over responsibility...go ahead and take it over completely. Banner I guess is going cause he new Lombardi was his puppet to pull strings. So once he was gone his GAME was gone to control all of the football as if he was the OWNER...remember he came here with the Wish to be THE OWNER without paying the Billion Dollars. He cannot burn his bridges so he is staying on to be the bean counter for FAgency of this year. Draft? Farmer was doing a darn good job and that won't change.

I don't see this as a step back - I was afraid we would lose Farmer he is the key to bring us to Relevancy. Working with Pettine. There isn't the complete turnover and transition with the FO as far as the Personnel or even the business end. We are in good hands.

I thought more so than not this was going to happen next season as we wanted to keep Farmer here and for him not to go to Miami there had to be a

deal set up as in Stick around kid your turn will come to become a namesake in making the Browns!

jmho

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Man I love watching jimmy when he gets asked a question he doesn't like. Love watching him live all po'd

Guys like him are all sorts of fun to be around when they're that way. Unless you have to work for them. Then you go out of your way to never, ever, under any circumstance PO the boss. They get mad, and then they get even.

To be fair to Haslam, it's his money after all. He's got a bundle wrapped up in this team and it never looked to me like Banner and Lombardi had that sense of urgency to them. Sure they wanted a winner so they could look smart. But they didn't want a winner because they were afraid Jimmy would have their heads on a silver platter if they didn't produce. Guys like Haslam can't work with people like that.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-cen...04-5485f481af31

Link to Farmer press conference.

Mary Kay Cabot just asked the first QB question.

If I remember correctly, an overwhelming majority of people on this board were unhappy that Lombardi and Banner were brought on board to begin with. I was not in favor of that move, either. As for consistency...yeah...looks mighty bad. But in reality, it's cleaning up a big mistake that was made to begin with. imho

It is obvious now that Haslam fired Chud.

Farmer and Scheiner are highly regarded young minds around the league. I feel more comfortable with them in charge then the previous people.

Listening to Farmer, damn, he's NO NONSENSE..

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Owner Jimmy Haslam decided that Lombardi had to go. Haslam also decided that assistant G.M. Ray Farmer deserved to have full control over the football operation, unfettered by Banner’s authority over the football side of the organization.

Game, set, match.

Lombardi should have never been hired in the first place. Hopefully he will now add this failure to his resume and disappear from football permanently.

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Owner Jimmy Haslam decided that Lombardi had to go. Haslam also decided that assistant G.M. Ray Farmer deserved to have full control over the football operation, unfettered by Banner’s authority over the football side of the organization.

Lombardi should have never been hired in the first place. Hopefully he will now add this failure to his resume and disappear from football permanently.

And Banner should have never had control over the roster.

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If I remember correctly, an overwhelming majority of people on this board were unhappy that Lombardi and Banner were brought on board to begin with. I was not in favor of that move, either. As for consistency...yeah...looks mighty bad. But in reality, it's cleaning up a big mistake that was made to begin with. imho

This is true. I personally didn't know A LOT about Banner, but I was disgusted with the Lombardi hire. That was doomsday in the making.

This really reflects on how Haslam runs a business and his decision making abilities. To me, it seems hard to get any type of "chemistry" in a Cleveland Browns building. Seems like he got on board and was nervous and didn't bother to expend the needed energy to fulfill the positions with the right people? I don't know, but wow these firings are huge. We really are one fubar'ed organization. Mike Pettine has GOT to be sweating balls right now wondering what he got himself into...

Don't worry Mike, you'll still get PAID even after you're fired. You'll be like, the seventh coach getting paid to not do anything for/to/about this organization. Dead Space in terms of money.

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Owner Jimmy Haslam decided that Lombardi had to go. Haslam also decided that assistant G.M. Ray Farmer deserved to have full control over the football operation, unfettered by Banner’s authority over the football side of the organization.

Lombardi should have never been hired in the first place. Hopefully he will now add this failure to his resume and disappear from football permanently.

And Banner should have never had control over the roster.

Yes and yes!

Farmer majorly sidestepped a question asking if Banner was a football guy.

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Owner Jimmy Haslam decided that Lombardi had to go. Haslam also decided that assistant G.M. Ray Farmer deserved to have full control over the football operation, unfettered by Banner’s authority over the football side of the organization.

Lombardi should have never been hired in the first place. Hopefully he will now add this failure to his resume and disappear from football permanently.

And Banner should have never had control over the roster.

And now we may actually have the pieces in place to get it right. I'm high on Farmer and Pettine and look forward to a unified organization that is dedicated to the success of the Cleveland Browns instead of the power mongering of the Banner-Lombardi show.

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It is obvious now that Haslam fired Chud.

Farmer and Scheiner are highly regarded young minds around the league. I feel more comfortable with them in charge then the previous people.

I agree with this as well.

I think Jimmy wanted to promote Farmer next year and when he found out he was leaving... he convinced Farmer to say and whacked two moles out of this organization.

jc

No listening to presser, but PFT highlighted certain points. Haslam said Banner won't be replaced by another CEO. He also said the notion that the Browns are dysfunctional was concocted by the local media.

PFT

Interesting, my first thought was the opposite, that maybe he wasn't 100% happy about the firing and the fall-out perception it brought. Then, Banner and Lombardi presumably not getting their 1st choice (or possibly 2nd, 3rd...) was the final straw.

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Owner Jimmy Haslam decided that Lombardi had to go. Haslam also decided that assistant G.M. Ray Farmer deserved to have full control over the football operation, unfettered by Banner’s authority over the football side of the organization.

Game, set, match.

Lombardi should have never been hired in the first place. Hopefully he will now add this failure to his resume and disappear from football permanently.

No he willbe back on NFL network, telling anyine that will listen how every decision made by the browns is wrong... just like he did last time he left this organization.

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Listening to Farmer, damn, he's NO NONSENSE..

I love that this guy worked in KC with the rebuild project they did... '06'-'12 they really did a good job loading up on good young players. KC is going to be competitive for years...

I think if you polled people who know who Ray Farmer is and asked them Farmer or Lombardi, at least 90% would favor Farmer.

I know you guys will correct me when I'm wrong on this.

It would appear to me that Mike Pettine just got handed a gigantic bucket of control over his roster. And it would appear that Farmer is OK with that. It would look like the days of a coach being handed a roster of players and told to make it fit his scheme are drawing to a close. What could possibly go wrong that hasn't already?

Haslam stated that Pettine was "his" choice. And shortly after Pettine is hired all of a sudden Farmer quits listening to job offers from outside. My best bet is Lombardi knew he was gone as soon as Pettine was hired. You know at some point s!meone had to ask Pettine "What's it going to take to get you to come to Cleveland?" And Banner had to know what was coming. I'm going to have to go back and look at the news accounts of the Pettine hire and lay it's chronology over some other stuff.

Now I want to see how they handle Mack. That'll tell the tale. I'd also be interested to hear what Joe Thomas has to say.

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What the heck is going on over there? Just when you thought things can't get more whacked? So did Banner or Lambardi fire Chud? If so, I am irate! Is Pettine a Farmer guy? Holy Moly!!

Wow! I'm shocked by this, but I think it really does mean that Haslam is taking control of the situation there. I don't know what went on, but Chudzinski's firing was certainly Haslam's doing.

Many called for the front office to go and said that if they didn't get it right this year there would be no doubt about it. Well, it didn't take that long!

This is stunning! Just wow!

I'm not sure what prompted it but this couldn't have been something football related. This must have been something that was structural, such as insubordination.

I didn't see this coming. Not in the least. I hope this isn't Haslam becoming a Jerry Jones or Al Davis type of situation in Berea.

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Now I want to see how they handle Mack. That'll tell the tale. I'd also be interested to hear what Joe Thomas has to say.

Don't think it matters how they handle Mack, cause I think Mack has zero intentions of continuing his NFL career as a Brown. I bet a lot of players who are here, just don't want to be here. Feel bad for them. If Josh Gordon or one young talent goes to the media and says he'll request a trade, wow. Yet another steep pitch for the Browns to endure.

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Nice to see reports of Banner "stepping down" and also "blindsided" and "devestated."

I can't tell if this is a stable enough situation going into the draft or just more crappy inconsistency. It kind of feels good. But that's just my "gut" talking.

Are other teams just an owner, GM, & scouts?

That's a good question. These are the guys that brought in the current crop of scouts. If there is anything to be good about that is that Farmer has been involved with them from the start. They've been reporting to him anyway.

wow....I mean WOW....Didn't see this coming...course I really wasn't looking that hard either.....LOL

anyway....As happy as I am to see Lombardi go....I despised the fact he came here....we do have to remember that without him we would not have Hoyer...And Hoyer at least gives us a little hope.

Banner....I have no emotions in either direction. He did some good things he did some not so good things...and as a previous post with a story said...he basically became unneeded since Farmer will handle the football side and Scheiner the business side...

Well I will tell you one thing....with Haslam's quick firing finger...he sure does create a pressure cooker. but the one who handle that pressure cooker....LOOK OUT...because that will be the special person we are looking for and GREAT things will be ahead of us. I can only hope Pettine is that guy...

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Don't think it matters how they handle Mack, cause I think Mack has zero intentions of continuing his NFL career as a Brown. I bet a lot of players who are here, just don't want to be here. Feel bad for them. If Josh Gordon or one young talent goes to the media and says he'll request a trade, wow. Yet another steep pitch for the Browns to endure.

I'd assume the coaching change might affect some players - but I doubt most players give a damn who their GM is (unless they think they were recently screwed over on a contract) - they probably just don't interact with them that much.

I am just trying to put this all together in my head.

Haslam and Banner were a package deal for some reason. Most say the league suggested Haslam hire Banner (or something along those lines).

Once Banner was on board we knew that Holmgren, Heckert, and Shurmur were on their way out.

Banner, a lot like Holmgren's Shurmur hire, had a farcical GM search that ended with him hiring Lombardi. Banner had control over the roster but insisted it was a consensus.

After a disappointing season of regression Haslam was dissatisfied with the way things were playing out. Chud was fired by Haslam.

Haslam was the main man in the head coaching search. He eventually hired Pettine. Banner and Lombardi were in on the interviews but not the driving force. Per reports, Lombardi wanting McDaniels caused a "rift" between him and Banner.

Haslam, tired of "rifts," wanted Lombardi gone and wanted to promote Farmer to GM giving him control of the roster. (This is the only rift we know of, I am guessing the other rift was between Chud and someone in the front office). Because Banner had control of the roster he no longer had the power in wanted in the organization and he was asked to step down.

The current power structure goes like this; Haslam > Farmer/Scheiner > Pettine. From everything that has been said we have a pretty good group of people now in charge of the organization. Farmer, Scheiner, and Pettine are all highly regarded people. The only wildcard is Haslam who could have a quick trigger or could know when things aren't headed the right way or both.

Probably more than any other move - Mack resigning depends on how he feels about the ZBS - given that Shanahan is the new OC.

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Now I want to see how they handle Mack. That'll tell the tale. I'd also be interested to hear what Joe Thomas has to say.

Don't think it matters how they handle Mack, cause I think Mack has zero intentions of continuing his NFL career as a Brown. I bet a lot of players who are here, just don't want to be here. Feel bad for them. If Josh Gordon or one young talent goes to the media and says he'll request a trade, wow. Yet another steep pitch for the Browns to endure.

Or they could say... alright... Haslam is getting this thing under control and we have people in charge we can trust... maybe just maybe, they will view it as a good thing, just like a lot of us already do.

I just dont see someone asking for a trade because of Banner and Lombardi leaving

Course that goes against the woe is me syndrome.... that some have on here.

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I am just trying to put this all together in my head.

Haslam and Banner were a package deal for some reason. Most say the league suggested Haslam hire Banner (or something along those lines).

Once Banner was on board we knew that Holmgren, Heckert, and Shurmur were on their way out.

Banner, a lot like Holmgren's Shurmur hire, had a farcical GM search that ended with him hiring Lombardi. Banner had control over the roster but insisted it was a consensus.

After a disappointing season of regression Haslam was dissatisfied with the way things were playing out. Chud was fired by Haslam.

Haslam was the main man in the head coaching search. He eventually hired Pettine. Banner and Lombardi were in on the interviews but not the driving force. Per reports, Lombardi wanting McDaniels caused a "rift" between him and Banner.

Haslam, tired of "rifts," wanted Lombardi gone and wanted to promote Farmer to GM giving him control of the roster. (This is the only rift we know of, I am guessing the other rift was between Chud and someone in the front office). Because Banner had control of the roster he no longer had the power in wanted in the organization and he was asked to step down.

The current power structure goes like this; Haslam > Farmer/Scheiner > Pettine. From everything that has been said we have a pretty good group of people now in charge of the organization. Farmer, Scheiner, and Pettine are all highly regarded people. The only wildcard is Haslam who could have a quick trigger or could know when things aren't headed the right way or both.

What does it mean for the current staff that was brought in? What's it mean for Brian Hoyer, that was liked by Lombardi? Does Farmer also like Hoyer?

Maybe Haslam learned that they were trying to make a trade to New England for Ryan Mallett and he didn't like the idea.

Let's face it, it's his money that pays the bills.

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What does it mean for the current staff that was brought in? What's it mean for Brian Hoyer, that was liked by Lombardi? Does Farmer also like Hoyer?

It seems as though Pettine was a Haslam hire and not a Banner/Lombardi hire. Farmer had to know and accept that when he was hired as the new GM.

As for Hoyer, he will be evaluated just like the rest of the players currently. As he should be.

I feel better.

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Maybe Haslam learned that they were trying to make a trade to New England for Ryan Mallett and he didn't like the idea.

There is no reason to think that. It seems pretty obvious that Haslam just didn't like the direction the organization was going under the leadership of Banner and Lombardi. End of story.

Also, if anybody still believes that Mary Kay Cabot is anything but a fluff trumpet for the organization:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/02/ray_farmer_passed_up_the_dolph.html

There were twitter posters and reddit users who had already figured out the rising tension and were reporting on it, and MKC (a supposedly professional journalist) came out with this.

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I know you guys will correct me when I'm wrong on this.

It would appear to me that Mike Pettine just got handed a gigantic bucket of control over his roster. And it would appear that Farmer is OK with that. It would look like the days of a coach being handed a roster of players and told to make it fit his scheme are drawing to a close. What could possibly go wrong that hasn't already?

Haslam stated that Pettine was "his" choice. And shortly after Pettine is hired all of a sudden Farmer quits listening to job offers from outside. My best bet is Lombardi knew he was gone as soon as Pettine was hired. You know at some point someone had to ask Pettine "What's it going to take to get you to come to Cleveland?" And Banner had to know what was coming. I'm going to have to go back and look at the news accounts of the Pettine hire and lay it's chronology over some other stuff.

Now I want to see how they handle Mack. That'll tell the tale. I'd also be interested to hear what Joe Thomas has to say.

I don't know that there's much to correct here

I would simply say that while Farmer will have control over the 53, I assume, believe and am hopeful that they (FO & coaching) will actually work together collaboratively to build a winning team instead of just playing lip service to the notion while playing a corporate version of king of the hill.

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Also, if anybody still believes that Mary Kay Cabot is anything but a fluff trumpet for the organization:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/02/ray_farmer_passed_up_the_dolph.html

There were twitter posters and reddit users who had already figured out the rising tension and were reporting on it, and MKC (a supposedly professional journalist) came out with this.

What the hell is she going to write about now that she no longer has Lombardi & Banner feeding her disinformation?

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I am just trying to put this all together in my head.

Haslam and Banner were a package deal for some reason. Most say the league suggested Haslam hire Banner (or something along those lines).

Once Banner was on board we knew that Holmgren, Heckert, and Shurmur were on their way out.

Banner, a lot like Holmgren's Shurmur hire, had a farcical GM search that ended with him hiring Lombardi. Banner had control over the roster but insisted it was a consensus.

After a disappointing season of regression Haslam was dissatisfied with the way things were playing out. Chud was fired by Haslam.

Haslam was the main man in the head coaching search. He eventually hired Pettine. Banner and Lombardi were in on the interviews but not the driving force. Per reports, Lombardi wanting McDaniels caused a "rift" between him and Banner.

Haslam, tired of "rifts," wanted Lombardi gone and wanted to promote Farmer to GM giving him control of the roster. (This is the only rift we know of, I am guessing the other rift was between Chud and someone in the front office). Because Banner had control of the roster he no longer had the power in wanted in the organization and he was asked to step down.

The current power structure goes like this; Haslam > Farmer/Scheiner > Pettine. From everything that has been said we have a pretty good group of people now in charge of the organization. Farmer, Scheiner, and Pettine are all highly regarded people. The only wildcard is Haslam who could have a quick trigger or could know when things aren't headed the right way or both.

Unless Haslam came out and said that the Chud firing was his doing (and by that, I mean, he came into the room, slammed his fist down on the table and said, "This dude's gotta go". Initiated and completed by Haslam), I think that the Chud firing was Banner (ie "the consensus"). Other than that, what you said above is 100% correct.
... and to add to that, I'll take a guess and say that Haslam finally saw these guys (Banner and Lombardi) for what we feared them to be. He decided both had to go, and the way to do that would be to axe Lombardi, and Banner would get the message and exit with what little grace was left.

After watching the press conference with Farmer, I feel this was not a knee jerk reaction. I believe Haslam was tired of the negative press and the internal disagreements and secided now was the time to fix it.

The FO has changed, but key people are still in place. Farmer has been working the draft with the scouts, so no change there. Farmer also has had contact with Pettine, so no change there. Scheiner is still in his same capacity, no change there. In my eyes Haslam removed the circus acts. Let Scheiner run the PR and business side, let Farmer run the football side, and let Pettine run the team. Simpler structure with competent people in charge. No power struggles, and head man keeping a close eye on all of it.

I love it.

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And there's probably some things that need to be finalized that you don't want to try to just hand off to someone else. The financial side of things likely needs some transition time.

Sums it up 100% for me.

People suggesting this move makes the Browns situation worse are 100% wrong in my opinion - if you think you made a mistake, own it, do something about it. Seems that's what Haslam has done.

If the new HC process was part of the process/reason - makes perfect sense. You gotta be accountable - and if Banner promised/suggested a replacement for Chud would be one of a select group of 2 or 3 desirable candidates and they all said 'thanks but no thanks' then it makes perfect sense that Banner gets canned.

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In my eyes Haslam removed the circus acts. Let Scheiner run the PR and business side, let Farmer run the football side, and let Pettine run the team. Simpler structure with competent people in charge. No power struggles, and head man keeping a close eye on all of it.

Perfect.

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I think that the Chud firing was Banner (ie "the consensus").

You could be right, but there are multiple reports saying that Haslam was the one who wanted Chud gone.

in before somebody says this is the fans fault they got fired...

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in before somebody says this is the fans fault they got fired...

ok I take responsibilty

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If I remember correctly, an overwhelming majority of people on this board were unhappy that Lombardi and Banner were brought on board to begin with. I was not in favor of that move, either. As for consistency...yeah...looks mighty bad. But in reality, it's cleaning up a big mistake that was made to begin with. imho

From my perspective, I didn't like either hire. Banner because he may have been a lead dog over in Philly but I couldn't find anything that said he made any player aquisition decisions. It mostly fell on Heckert and Reid from what I could tell. Yet he continued to push how much involvement he had. I thought he was blowing smoke.

Regarding Lombardi, I didn't want him based solely on his history as a GM.. Not glorious in the least. I hoped that maybe the time away may have helped him but apparently not.

Having said that, I started to warm to them as the season went on. I thought (not at first but eventually) that the TRich trade was great.

I was happy with Krueger and Bryant FA signings. I liked the coaching staff they assembled. In general, they were slowing winning me over.

Then Chud gets canned and I thought, what in the hell are these guys thinking. I was back to wanting them gone.

I got my wish I guess..

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I was just thinking the other day how nice it would be if we had Farmer as GM instead of Dumbardi.

These are the two I didn't trust. These are the two I wanted gone!

It seems the owner ended up agreeing with me. I'm glad they're gone and I'm glad Farmer is the new GM. Maybe things will finally start looking up around here.

Now it's time to change my signature.

This is your crowning achievement; bask in the glory!

JC.

Two words.

HAPPY DAY!

My opinion (since I know you guys were all waiting, eagerly, for my opinion...

First, nothing surprises me anymore. I think it says a lot when my team (and I say that like MY TEAM) goes and does something like this, and my phone is blowing up with articles and friends' texts, and my reaction is "meh". This franchise really is a joke, and I say that in a non-emotional, factual way.

I was never going to be mistaken as a fan of Banner and Lombardi, but I wanted to wait and see what they could do. I certainly won't shed a tear over them getting kicked to the curb, but I can't help but shake my head over this. Now that he's no longer a Brown, I'll go back to saying Lombardi is a joke, but Banner might have been different. I wasn't a fan of his apparent ego-mania, but I think he did enough good things here to hope for him to grow into a football role (Richardson, Kruger, Bryant, Hoyer were all good FA moves, in my book, and the all-powerful Banner was in charge of that).

More importantly, I'm worried about Haslam. I mean, he's the last "stooge" standing at this point. What if he's the source of all this turmoil? The part from the PFT article about how he hired some guy from PepsiCo to run Pilot for him, just to boot him a short time later when he decided to come back really caught my eye. Whatever the reason behind that situation, it reflects very poorly on Haslam.

I'm worried that we have a bigger problem with Haslam than we ever did with Banner and Lombardi.

I had a nightmare on Friday that the Browns fired Pettine and the staff because Banner and Lombardi decided they didn't like him. They followed that up by firing the next coach and appointing Shannahan as the head coach. I was so pissed off in my nightmare that Jimmy just let these two idiots continue to run the organization while everyone around the country laughed at us.

I am pretty happy right now.

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j/c..

Looks like Haslam really took Marla Ridenour's advice to heart in canning Lombardi and promoting Farmer. lol

Banner is transitioning out of his position by May.

Banner to leave in May

It really isn't surprising. When Farmer rejected the Miami GM job, I knew he knew something we didn't. There is no reason not to take that job other than he thinks his situation here was better than in Miami. Which is proving to be true.

j/c…

Looking back in hindsight on the Kyle Shanahan reports that his interview went bad and he turned off certain folks in the organization about his alleged comments on the Chud situation. Then we see reports surface that the interview went well and he is being hired. Makes me wonder if Lombardi or Banner leaked to a source Shanahan wasn't the guy and Haslam finally had enough of those two, sided with Pettine and hired Shanahan.

Just speculation on my part and seems to fit the timeline.

I think the Browns are in a much better position to be successful today than they were 24 hours ago. Good for Haslam.

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j/c..

Looks like Haslam really took Marla Ridenour's advice to heart in canning Lombardi and promoting Farmer. lol

Banner is transitioning out of his position by May.

Banner to leave in May

It really isn't surprising. When Farmer rejected the Miami GM job, I knew he knew something we didn't. There is no reason not to take that job other than he thinks his situation here was better than in Miami. Which is proving to be true.

Not that I buy what they are saying, but both Haslam and Farmer denied that it was the reason that Farmer turned down Miami,'

When asked, he just said that Miami wasn't the right fit for him,

He denied he knew this change was coming.

Again, FWIW

i guess it depends.

if pettine and Farmer slam dunk this season and beyond, then Haslam did an awesome job handling the situation in the end.

if not....well.

i just think Haslam will stop being so hands on once our HC and GM show they can handle what they need to handle.

I watched most of Farmer's press conference and I must say that I really like the guy. He may make some mistakes but i get the feeling from him that he truly wants to make the Browns better, where as with Banner and Lombardi I always got the feeling they were more interested in making themselves look good.

Statement from Joe Banner:

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It is bittersweet leaving the Browns organization. I have thoroughly enjoyed working with Jimmy Haslam and helping him set the infrastructure for this franchise. I am proud of the talented individuals we brought in to help lead this team and feel that the Cleveland Browns are in good hands moving forward.

Nate Ulrich

Did you catch this part of JH presser:
Guy ask about the image of Browns after Chud & then this? couldn't really hear it.

JH: "last week at the OWNERs meeting" blah blah blah great place to work.

So maybe he asked around & decided "Curley & Moe must go"
I hadn't heard of meetings on NFL network, and was watching replays off & on
anyway I like the moves
But Jimmy I ain't seen nothing yet

j/c

Will Burge, whom seems to always have an inside info on the Browns before it's reported more widely, is reporting coaches not wanting to work under Banner is one of the contributing factors to his outing.

Will Burge

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My opinion (since I know you guys were all waiting, eagerly, for my opinion...

First, nothing surprises me anymore. I think it says a lot when my team (and I say that like MY TEAM) goes and does something like this, and my phone is blowing up with articles and friends' texts, and my reaction is "meh". This franchise really is a joke, and I say that in a non-emotional, factual way.

I was never going to be mistaken as a fan of Banner and Lombardi, but I wanted to wait and see what they could do. I certainly won't shed a tear over them getting kicked to the curb, but I can't help but shake my head over this. Now that he's no longer a Brown, I'll go back to saying Lombardi is a joke, but Banner might have been different. I wasn't a fan of his apparent ego-mania, but I think he did enough good things here to hope for him to grow into a football role (Richardson, Kruger, Bryant, Hoyer were all good FA moves, in my book, and the all-powerful Banner was in charge of that).

More importantly, I'm worried about Haslam. I mean, he's the last "stooge" standing at this point. What if he's the source of all this turmoil? The part from the PFT article about how he hired some guy from PepsiCo to run Pilot for him, just to boot him a short time later when he decided to come back really caught my eye. Whatever the reason behind that situation, it reflects very poorly on Haslam.

I'm worried that we have a bigger problem with Haslam than we ever did with Banner and Lombardi.

I do not know for sure if Haslam is the final "stooge" yet or not.
I thought so when he knee jerked and fired Chud.
But now I am wondering if he kind of regrets the quick trigger?
None of us were in the inner circle that day.
Who's to say the Banner and Lombardi were not the first people in Haslams ear about who they suggested is at fault?

Lombardi wanted his guy the year before. And had a fall guy in Chud.
Banner was butting heads with Chud about personel all season.
Haslam listened to them and fired Chud.

Then came Norv. Who was like..." Mr.Haslam, What gives?"
I think that is the point when Haslam's wheels started to turn.

"Maybe I reacted too quickly?"

Farmer was on his way out the door.
He fixed that, at it seems about the same time he was texting back and forth with Manning. Coincidence?
Maybe Haslam went about things his way with nobody in his ear? Or maybe just "other people" in his ear.
And we are now at a new place.

Maybe that is what happened?

Seems he learned something in Pittsburgh.
Same power structure now.
Maybe the continuity part will come in now.
I sure hope so.

Wow, an amazing day in Brownstown. Happy happy, joy joy....

Banner was an arrogant bean counter who thought he knew football. That's why he left Philadelphia. He didn't have total control and he wanted that.

Congratulations to our new GM Ray Farmer. The upcoming draft and FA period is CRITICAL for this team to have any chance to compete. DON'T flub it up!

I really believe we are in better shape today than we were yesterday. With Banners ego out of the equation, the odds of having a good draft are greatly increased. Good riddance to bad rubbish. Mike Lombardi can go back to NFL Network and Banner can crawl back under his rock....

but I wanted to wait and see what they could do.

A very reasonable thought process except for the fact that Lombardi just doesn't have a good history with his drafts and that is sort of being kind. I mean we had no choice so the hope was he won't mess this up.

This just might be the most important FA and draft period in our recent history.
It might be good to miss the OOOPS and then fire because we waited to see what he could do. Now Farmer has a different perspective in all of this. He has been in football while Lombardi was on TV he is fresh and he is the kind of guy I want to see what he can do...not Lombardi as that was pretty scary. Actually for me personally the only solace I had was the fact that Lombardi was depending on Farmer a lot...I was like pffew when I heard Farmer was evaluating the QBs first hand, Farmer would be at the combine and Senior Bowl. He was the one I had trust in. So in that way I am happy.

jmho

It's all gonna play out like the movie!!! But farmer doesn't look like Kevin Costner. I didn't know he was black when I turned on presser. I was like why is mike brown up there. Gonna be just like the movie besides that little tidbit!!!!

From Cleveland Browns.com; Ray Farmer on scouting QBs.

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j/c

Will Burge, whom seems to always have an inside info on the Browns before it's reported more widely, is reporting coaches not wanting to work under Banner is one of the contributing factors to his outing.

Will Burge

And I believe that. I don't believe that Banner was popular with players or potential hires. I believe that's part of the reason why we kept missing out on so many coaching candidates.

I'm just glad the circus is behind us. Now if this same process repeats itself in the next couple of years it would become an issue with Haslam. But I agree with these moves.

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From Cleveland Browns.com; Ray Farmer on scouting QBs.

We actually have a true talent evaluator looking at and making the call on FA & draft prospects, not just some guy who could remember a bunch of stats.

IMHO this may eventually prove to be one of the smartest moves JH has made since he bought the team.

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j/c..

Looks like Haslam really took Marla Ridenour's advice to heart in canning Lombardi and promoting Farmer. lol

Banner is transitioning out of his position by May.

Banner to leave in May

It really isn't surprising. When Farmer rejected the Miami GM job, I knew he knew something we didn't. There is no reason not to take that job other than he thinks his situation here was better than in Miami. Which is proving to be true.

Yeah, I thought something was fishy when he walked away from the Miami job. you don't just turn your back on a full GM spot so you can be part of "history" in the factory of sadness. Browns make history every year. BAD history. Now it seems clear Jimmy gave him the old wink wink nudge nudge that he would be running the show very quickly.

Happily, I think Ray Farmer is a FAR better choice at GM than the Banner/Lombardi tag team. Banner isn't a football guy. He never played, never coached, never ran the draft room until last year. He was a team executive in Philadelphia NOT the talent guy. We now have a real true GM. He may succeed, he may fail. But the chances of a quality draft this year just went up GREATLY. He will judge talent and draft accordingly. No more "money-ball" Sabermetric BS.

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WOW!!

My first reaction is: I'm glad. Never felt comfortable about Banner or Lombardi. Had serious doubts about their ability to evaluate talent.

In addition, I felt Banner's reputation within the inner circle of NFL players and executives was suspect.

When the the whole Chud thing went down it was clear that the air within Berea was foul.

Professional mistrust is toxic to an organization. When Chud got axed and the search began for a new coach it was clear that something was amiss. It appeared that the guys that they wanted bailed.

Haslam had to get word from people within the league that the perception of Banner and Lombardi was not good. That ultimately it would have a negative effect on signing free agents and the draft.

Haslam has his own baggage but I give him credit for making this move now.

Ray Farmer in my opinion will be a good GM. He has come up through the ranks and earned this chance.

Now I have more faith in free agency and the draft.

Go Browns.

Very well put bonefish I agree

jc..

I think the positive side of this is we no longer have a FO that thinks they are great, we have a FO that has a reason/desire to prove they are great.

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I am all on board with this.

I am not going to kick a guy(s) when he is down, but I feel that Santa Claus has come twice this winter season...

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Yeah, I thought something was fishy when he walked away from the Miami job. you don't just turn your back on a full GM spot so you can be part of "history" in the factory of sadness.

The Dolphins GM job was awful. Their owner was clueless and rubbing people the wrong way. They got turned down by multiple people. I am sure that is the biggest reason why Farmer turned the job down.

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No more "money-ball" Sabermetric BS.

So you have no clue what you are talking about? Alec Scheiner, the President of the Cleveland Browns, is one of the most prominent people in the NFL who uses analytics.

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From Cleveland Browns.com; Ray Farmer on scouting QBs.

We actually have a true talent evaluator looking at and making the call on FA & draft prospects, not just some guy who could remember a bunch of stats. IMHO this may eventually prove to be one of the smartest move JH has made since he bought the team.

Thanks for the post. Interesting interview for sure. I'm a very happy camper we have Ray Farmer as our GM now.

Ray Farmer is now the face of the Browns organization. Lombardi was called the GM but the reality is Banner was running the show with Lombardi as his minion/yes man. Now we have a real GM with real GM duties. I couldn't be happier. As long as Haslam leaves him alone to do his job we should be in good shape for a while. Hopefully Farmer and Pettine can work TOGETHER to build a quality football team.

I've got two thoughts on this.
1.Don't go near Jimmy when he has a hangover,wow.
2.All you guys touting Farmer,what do you know about him? That's right,nothing.He was Pro Player in KC,that title has little to nothing to do with the draft.
So,come draft day,we will again be led by rookies.You know,people that have never done it before.But because he isn't Lombardi or Banner,he must be good.

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So you have no clue what you are talking about? Alec Scheiner, the President of the Cleveland Browns, is one of the most prominent people in the NFL who uses analytics.

Great. If he wants to use analytic analysis on the business side.... that's fine. Unless he's running the draft, it's not going to affect our selection process though. I love science and mathematics. Useful tools to be sure. NOT the end all be all process for drafting NFL players however.... I'll take a good solid scouting staff and a football guy as GM any day.

You said that wrong. He isn't Banner or Lombardi so he may be likable.

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So,come draft day,we will again be led by rookies.You know,people that have never done it before.But because he isn't Lombardi or Banner,he must be good.

Banner was a rookie last year. Ray Farmer has a lot more experience on the football side than Banner does.

Must be good? No. We don't know that as yet. Must be better than Banner/Lombardi? Not hard to imagine....

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So,come draft day,we will again be led by rookies.You know,people that have never done it before.But because he isn't Lombardi or Banner,he must be good.

Banner was a rookie last year. Ray Farmer has a lot more experience on the football side than Banner does.

Must be good? No. We don't know that as yet. Must be better than Banner/Lombardi? Not hard to imagine....

Farmer is a football guy. Banner never was. Banner was a cap guy. We all questioned the hire of him (thanks Goodell!).

Nobody is saying Farmer is going to recreate the Cowboys dynasty, I think they are all just happy because today we have a more qualified guy running the personnel side of this team. As far as drafting goes, if he lets his scouts do their jobs, and makes good decisions based on their info, they will be fine.

Farmer was getting good reviews throughout the league, from reports of other organizations loving him to the media also being very high on him. This guy was going to get a job somewhere. I think he values the fact that we have picks at 4 and 24, probably with permission to trade up, as a chance to make an impact immediately. We also have a pretty decent roster for a team that just had a front office turnover. This isn't the 2009 Browns he's inheriting...

I know the media likes to make the Browns look like complete dog crap, but I truly believe the talent is there for this team to be pretty good. Outside of one position albeit.

Just clicking

Again, I'm going to screw up the wording a bit, but when asked if Banner was a "football guy" Farmer hemmed and hawed a bit too much.

It almost sounded as if he wanted to tell us the truth but he didn't want to bash banner either.

His actions and facial expressions when attempting to answer that question tells me that he didn't think that Banner was a football guy.

You're right.I should have said he doesn't look like a weasel,nor have a sneering face custom made for radio,so he must be good.

I heard last week this was coming, Lombardi for being an unnamed source on every leak since he joined the organization, especially leaking chud being fired during a freaking game. Banner for hiring Lombardi and also from many of the phone calls haslam had with the bigger named perspective coaching applicants. They wanted no part of Banner and Lombardi.

Then there was the attempted trading of Gordon. This from your guru talent evaluators.

forgot to add even though i heard it, i certainly didnt believe it.

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CLEV hiring former Chiefs VP of Player Personnel Bill Kuharich to assist new Browns GM Ray Farmer, per sources. They worked together in KC.

Adam Schefter, Twitter

Kuharich Link #1

Kuharich Link #2

Wow!
I am truely speechless.This is a major hire.
A great human being with an unmatched resume.
So much for having rookies running the draft.

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Wow!
I am truely speechless.This is a major hire.
A great human being with an unmatched resume.
So much for having rookies running the draft.

Yeah, having a hard time believing it myself... indeed a major hire!

Just so everyone knows. I am next in line!

j/c

The best part of this is that the "#26 pick for Mallet" rumors should end

j/c

Generally accepted that Banner was smart with the money. Who is our cap specialist going to be...anyone?

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Who is our cap specialist going to be...anyone?

Alec Scheiner.

As I said one month ago

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If the Browns let Farmer go they are 10 times dumber than they appeared when they let Chud go. What happens now will determine weather I calm down and give the front office a chance or just say the hell with it and bash them at every turn.

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Bro you should no by now I don't go along with the crowd I post my own thoughts and feelings based on my own thoughts and information. Not anybody else's. Farmers track record with teams he was involved with is was better than Lombardi's that's what I posted and that's what i mean. I never said he was the next Ozzie I only think the record speaks for itself and we have a chance to improve with him involved in the draft while I feel we have little chance with Lombardi involved. So please feel free to point out just what BS I posted bro.

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Who is our cap specialist going to be...anyone?

Alec Scheiner.

Yup.

My thought?
Dysfunction over. Jimmy stepped up and took his team today.
I know many are skeptical and with good reason but mark this date down as I'm betting it ends here.
Sure it's going to take a little time and patience on all fronts but
This day marks the real return of the Browns.

Not sure how I feel about this. I need more time to process the information. A few quick thoughts:

--I hope we still want to draft a QB at #4 or even higher. No idea what Farmer thinks of the situation. The old guys were going to draft one.

--I can't say I am upset about losing either Banner or Lombardi. I supported them because I was willing to give them a chance, but they had not yet proven themselves. I did think that Banner had the resolve to be successful, but I am not upset about losing him.

--I am worried that this is really late in the process to make this move. Seems like a knee-jerk reactionary type of move.

--Farmer is said to be bright, but hasn't done it before.

--Firing a HC after a terrible season is one thing, but firing the guys who were at the top of the FO this close to the draft sounds pretty crazy.

--I'm hoping the new guys will get it done. I am starting to wonder about Haslam, though.

--I need more time to think this through, but I find it hysterical that all the people who were crying about how "Haslam lied to me," and "we need continuity," and "we are the laughing stock of the NFL" are now celebrating the firing of two more guys.

Hypocrisy at its finest. Well done.

Wow, from zero to over 200 posts in under 5 1/2 hours.. that has to be a record of some sort.

I can't say I'm sad... this does kind of blow my other post stating that I just hope we have an uneventful offseason out of of the water.

I guess I respect Jimmy for stepping in as he thinks he needs to, he's the owner so he's not going any where, I just hope he understands that this was his mulligan. Hiring an entire team, then a coaching staff, then firing the whole lot of them in less than 2 years is his mulligan and I can live with it....

We will never know what was behind these decisions but speculating on it is going to be fun..

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are now celebrating the firing of two more guys.

*Turns down the music an sits down my 18 pack of beer* I couldn't hear you with all the celebrating here bro.

LOL...........I am glad you are happy.

This is going to turn out to be a real turning point for the Browns Organization. Banner and Lombardi were control freaks and were becoming and anchor holding the ship back. Haslam made the best move of his tenure as owner flushing these 2 from the organization.

Ray Farmer will be a great compliment to the new coach Pettine. Just reading about them they both seem like tough strong minded people and I think that will start to become a trend in this organization. Tough people like to surrond themselves with other tough people.

I have not been this excited about the Browns in a long time.

Welcome to the Mike Pettine and Ray horton era. Enjoy the ride!!!

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are now celebrating the firing of two more guys.

*Turns down the music an sits down my 18 pack of beer* I couldn't hear you with all the celebrating here bro.

Weird - isn't it? We have one guy that celebrates firing a coach after 1 season where he got not help from the front office......in fact, we were told the team was working on building for the future....but we fire the coach because of the results............and now said poster is leary about firing the gm and ceo because "they didn't get a chance........."

Actually, it's ironic.

Regardless - Haslam is making the calls. And, based on this recent history - he'd better be making the right calls, or else he'll fire himself next.

On a side note - rich people do often times have a skewed understanding of their importance. Jimmy is fitting into that mold quite well with all the firings..........this ain't pilot Jimmy. No one knew what you did at pilot, no one cared until you were found to be screwing customers on rebates. You could fire someone because they didn't meet your expectations, and everyone in the company thought "great vision Jimmy. Good move."

No, Jimmy, this is the nfl. Your every move will be scrutinized. I think this last move was good.......we'll find out.

So, I go to the NFL website and start clicking.

The first button I hit has the NFL morning crew sitting around to tell us how and what to think about this.

They begin the segment with showing every interception Hoyer, then Weeden, then Campbell seemingly threw all season. The only break was to show a sack of Campbell.

They are all giving us their "expert" opinions while showing the most embarrassing Brown's plays they could find. All really bad, not one good.

That is how they presented it.

Those of you who understand how TV, Advertising, and programs like NLP work on the subconscious, can realize that these guys aren't our friends. Those of you who contend that Goodell set us up with Banner, etc... may actually be on to something.

What I find hysterical is that some people think their constant judgments mean anything to anyone.

Had to put you on iggy... First one ever on this board but constant derogatory & judgmental B.S. overshadows any legitimate contribution.

Most of us here have always said that ANY respect the Browns get will have to be earned. Not by an OK season or two or three over 500 seasons but literally beating the tar out of opponents and forcing the media and or league to bite their tongues. They hate us. We are fodder for their crappy shows and comical articles on us. I don't think Pettine is a guy who likes being the Butt of jokes and after Jimmy got lumped in as the third Stooge his pride took a hit. (Not undeserved) A business owner
and more so a Southern man isn't going to take that stuff too long. I'm sure when called the third Stooge Jimmy was locked, loaded and waiting.

He admitted the NFL ownership learning curve was a tough one and I believe today he applied some of what he'd learned.

Lol

I know one thing, I immediately go to the "published by" or "written by" section and if the name has Jason La Canfora, I instantly know to close the web page and continue on about my business. As for TV - equally as bloated and misinformed. Adam Shefter is the only person I really buy into sometimes when they report something via internet/tv.

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Welcome to the Mike Pettine and Ray horton era. Enjoy the ride!!!

ummmm

I thank the football gods that Haslam finally realized that putting a salary cap guy in charge of the football side of his team was a huge mistake on his part. Especially a salary cap guy with Joe Banner's reputation.

The Browns had become so toxic that the best coaches and best players didn't want to work in Cleveland with Banner in charge. Mack and TJ Ward needed to resigned and chances were good that Banner's history in Philly was about to repeat here...IOW, Banner had not changed a bit.

I'm glad both Banner and Lombardi are gone..neither were qualified to hold the positions they held.

jc

I am kind of bummed out about Banner leaving. I know he's not always the most popular/likable guy but he was a smart guy who did things to set up the Browns for the future. A few that pop off my head:

- The Browns have an extra pick in the 1st, 3rd, and 4th rounds. To get those picks, the Browns gave up an overhyped, injury prone RB, a 4th round pick, and a 5th round pick. I think he was aggressive in finding those types of offers and bold in saying that the Browns would build towards sustained success and then, wait for it, actually backing that up with actions. Bonus points for getting anything for a couple players who likely had no future with this team.

- It was nice to hear him talking about game theory and such. I forgot where but he went into some detail about some controversial 4th down decisions around the league which he defended (as have I, numerous times.) I wonder if any of that rubbed off on Chud, who was outstanding in that regard, or maybe if it was even part of the interview process. If that sort of stuff isn't included, it should be. It is important.

- He was known as a cap guru in Philly and that was helpful for that team's sustained success. The team was never in cap trouble and could go and had the money to splurge on free agents from time to time. A lot of talented teams did not necessarily have that luxury. Managing the cap will be even more important in the present with the new, more owner friendly CBA. You could make a case that you have already seen that manifested in relatively lackluster free agency periods.

He did other things well of course. I'm not in the building; I don't know how he is to work with or any of that sort of stuff. Hopefully the long-term and strategy considerations aren't lost on the franchise.

Hey mac, welcome back! So it took a major event such as this to get your fingers working again? Missed your posts...at least some of them.

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CLEV hiring former Chiefs VP of Player Personnel Bill Kuharich to assist new Browns GM Ray Farmer, per sources. They worked together in KC.

Adam Schefter, Twitter

Kuharich Link #1

Kuharich Link #2

Is hiring this guy a good thing. I mean the Chiefs weren't anything special. Did this guy have a hand in bringing in the talent that Reid knew how to use? Hearing that would excite me.

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I thank the football gods that Haslam finally realized that putting a salary cap guy in charge of the football side of his team was a huge mistake on his part. Especially a salary cap guy with Joe Banner's reputation.

The Browns had become so toxic that the best coaches and best players didn't want to work in Cleveland with Banner in charge. Mack and TJ Ward needed to resigned and chances were good that Banner's history in Philly was about to repeat here...IOW, Banner had not changed a bit.

I'm glad both Banner and Lombardi are gone..neither were qualified to hold the positions they held.

Welcome back, mac.

As far as Banner, I tend to agree that he had too much control. He seems to rub a lot of people the wrong way. That doesn't change what I wrote above because he did really well in those regards.

I never wanted Lombardi here, but originally thought Banner might be good for operations. Together, I think they became toxic as a pair. I'm just glad that part of it is behind us and I'm really glad the draft picks and FA hires will be executed by Farmer, not those two.

WOOOOOOOOOOOHOOO BANNER IS GONE!!!

LIKE I SAID IN another thread...banner is a business man who fancies himself a football guru......he left philly because they wouldnt give him control over football operations...no need to when reid and heckerrt were doing a great job. His ego and arrogance couldnt handle it. So he came here with his vendetta to prove the eagles made a huge mistake, and once again it backfired in his face. I havent liked much of what haslam has done but i am very glad he finally seen banner for what he was.

BB32...thank you...today is a historic event and I wouldn't want to miss it ...my fingers have been working just fine...just not here.

thank you sir..

Banner didn't have any experience running the football side of any football team. What made it even worse, Banner did not come from a football background..he and his father ran a clothing chain before Banner was hired to help his buddy, Jeff Lurie, who bought the Eagles and hired Banner to help on the business side of the Eagles.

Banner was not qualified...neither was Lombardi...

I don't get it. These guys went into 2013 without spending a lot of cap money, trading draft picks for the future, admitting that they couldn't fill all the holes in one offseason, fire the coach who couldn't win with less talent (I think we all can admit the Browns had less talent) and not give that coach a chance to succeed after seeing what he had to work with and then build off of it. Then fire the guys that fired him after they were responsible of collecting info on future FAs and draft picks.

Does Lombardi know enough of what his scouts and assistants want in this upcoming draft? Would he have info to sell to other teams? You know Belicheck would give him a call to get any info he can as to what talent they are looking at.

cal...many do not know of Banner's history in Philly. I could see the train wreck coming and it was about to get much worse, had Banner and Lombardi been allowed to run the upcoming draft.

I like the guy we now have...he comes from a football background, as a players and his experience in management is on the football side. I did hear something about a management guy from KC coming into to work under Farmer...that should help.

Maybe the love-fest with Johnny Football and the rumor we would trade into the #1 spot was the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back.

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WOOOOOOOOOOOHOOO BANNER IS GONE!!!

LIKE I SAID IN another thread...banner is a business man who fancies himself a football guru......he left philly because they wouldnt give him control over football operations...no need to when reid and heckerrt were doing a great job. His ego and arrogance couldnt handle it. So he came here with his vendetta to prove the eagles made a huge mistake, and once again it backfired in his face. I havent liked much of what haslam has done but i am very glad he finally seen banner for what he was.

slick...you pretty much nailed it...

Banner was basicly fired in Philly after losing a power struggle with Andy Reid. In early 2012, Jeff Lurie, the Eagles owner took away all of Banner's power, made him an assistant to the owner.

Pretty sure it was a JH majority of one. Must have been a lot of blockage or frustration. Banner may have overreached? Must have been a lot building for awhile or one big blowup. I want to know more.

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Surprising and yet not so surprising

My entire beef with the firing of Chud was Huh...the FO did not do a thing in personnel to the effect that we were going all out to WIN NOW...why hold Chud accountable. I always thought the firing was a Haslam thing cause the FO added just as much to the status of us playing for the long term than win now.

1. We are keeping Banner till may to get most of the Bean counter duties done.
2. We will not be the laughing stock for the simple reason Farmer is considered one of the Brightest up n comers for GM out there. He has been here for the entire tenure of this new FO and now is the HEAD that will work hand in hand with PETTINE the HC...that is what you need. HC n GM working together and quite frankly I think Farmer is way more talented than Lombardi.

My personal fear was us losing Farmer as I thought he was the obvious to take over for Lombardi who I thought was on thin ICE.

3. We need the Bean counter and I think we got him here already.

This is Haslam's baby - he listened to the NFL probably telling him to get somebody to do it right and follow their lead. And now Haslam got mad as he stormed out of the Jets owner booth - angry he took it out on Chud and staff but there was residual effect so that all were on thin ice. Then came the search for the NEW HC...Lombardi was locked in with McDaniel we all knew that...Haslam was the lead with the Gase interest. The sparks flew I'm sure.

But too many Chefs will ruin the soup. I'm glad we have CONTINUITY in Farmer...we got our new HC. Farmer was the one sent to follow TEXAS A&M QB Farmer was the one asked to evaluate most of the other QBs. Farmer was asked to go to the Senior Bowl. To the Combine. I got more of a vibe that Farmer and Pettine can work together. Part of the failures of last season was Chud and Lombardi not working together.

Once Hoyer went down and we would need to get some success from Running the ball what did we get? Chud reportedly asked for a FB not a tough request you can get quality off the streets for that position. Lombardi refused the request and that is not how a GM and the HC works together!

Hey if Haslam is going to take over responsibility...go ahead and take it over completely. Banner I guess is going cause he new Lombardi was his puppet to pull strings. So once he was gone his GAME was gone to control all of the football as if he was the OWNER...remember he came here with the Wish to be THE OWNER without paying the Billion Dollars. He cannot burn his bridges so he is staying on to be the bean counter for FAgency of this year. Draft? Farmer was doing a darn good job and that won't change.

I don't see this as a step back - I was afraid we would lose Farmer he is the key to bring us to Relevancy. Working with Pettine. There isn't the complete turnover and transition with the FO as far as the Personnel or even the business end. We are in good hands.

I thought more so than not this was going to happen next season as we wanted to keep Farmer here and for him not to go to Miami there had to be a deal set up as in Stick around kid your turn will come to become a namesake in making the Browns!

jmho

preach on brother eotab!!!!! you are right on about banner being a control freak and wanting to control everything as if he was the owner

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WOOOOOOOOOOOHOOO BANNER IS GONE!!!

LIKE I SAID IN another thread...banner is a business man who fancies himself a football guru......he left philly because they wouldnt give him control over football operations...no need to when reid and heckerrt were doing a great job. His ego and arrogance couldnt handle it. So he came here with his vendetta to prove the eagles made a huge mistake, and once again it backfired in his face. I havent liked much of what haslam has done but i am very glad he finally seen banner for what he was.

slick...you pretty much nailed it...

Banner was basicly fired in Philly after losing a power struggle with Andy Reid. In early 2012, Jeff Lurie, the Eagles owner took away all of Banner's power, made him an assistant to the owner.

Thank you mac, now please go tell vers that because he basically told me i was a fool for thinking that. Glad to see i am not the only "fool" around here.

Well, birds do flock together.

I was going to let it go, but you brought my name up. Your facts are off. Might want to check them again.

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Well, birds do flock together.

I was going to let it go, but you brought my name up. Your facts are off. Might want to check them again.

why dont you do it for me....

and i like how you said "you were going to let it go" LOLOLOLOL as if you are a boss seeing one of your employees do something they shouldn't but decide to let them slide this time. Let me be the first to thank you vers for contemplating letting me off the hook! lol wouldnt want to anger the all knowing football guru that you are. Hell...thats why you make millions running a NFL team .........right? bwaaaaaaaaaahahahahahah

Anarchy, I think I remembered during Pettine's hiring loop that he was very impressed with Hoyer's potential and upside was major 9words to that effect. Cannot remember which Browns article I saw it in though. Gotta dig.

Nice.

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Maybe the love-fest with Johnny Football and the rumor we would trade into the #1 spot was the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back.

cal...I honestly believe it was the firing of Chud that did Banner in.

Word I heard was Banner and Lombardi assured Haslam they could get either Josh McDanials or Adam Gase as the next HC. When both turned the job down, Haslam had to again endure the process of being turned down by other prospects...same thing that happened last year.

I'm assuming Haslam started asking around why the Browns were not a desirable place for the best coaching prospects to work and some other owners and players opened up to Haslam about how the Browns were being perceived with Banner and Lombardi in charge.

jc

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-cen...14-ef18991e59b5

anybody who didn't watch it, thats the ray farmer presser.

man, so we got a HC and a GM that look like they wanna rip peoples heads off all the time.

fine with me. that dude has this command presence to him. both of those guys.

Like that a lot! The Pettine Zoo. Good stuff that. Made me smile.

I hope we still want to draft a QB at #4 or even higher. No idea what Farmer thinks of the situation. The old guys were going to draft one.

and.....

I am worried that this is really late in the process to make this move.

reading this made me think about our draft situation now. where are most teams with their draft boards right now? do they pretty much have their whole board penciled in to be tweaked as the combines and pro days are going on? if that's the case how much of our draft board will change now? I mean farmer and our scouts are still here so would anything change at all? this is really all I am concerned about with this whole mess right now.

Thanks!

I don't think he looks like he wants to rip someone's head off, but that might be the suit talking.

I don't know the exact answer, Knox.

I do know that their boards are liquid. They change all the way up until draft day.

I really am not that upset about losing Banner and Lombardi, but I wish Haslam would have fired those two at the same time he fired Chud. Not sure I like the timing of these moves.

This screams!!!!! The fleecing of this NFL Franchise will end today! Game on!

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I hope we still want to draft a QB at #4 or even higher. No idea what Farmer thinks of the situation. The old guys were going to draft one.

and.....

I am worried that this is really late in the process to make this move.

reading this made me think about our draft situation now. where are most teams with their draft boards right now? do they pretty much have their whole board penciled in to be tweaked as the combines and pro days are going on? if that's the case how much of our draft board will change now? I mean farmer and our scouts are still here so would anything change at all? this is really all I am concerned about with this whole mess right now.

Honestly, I'm not concerned about the readiness for the draft - so long as we keep the actual scouts on through the end of the draft season (I can't imagine us dropping scouts now).

There is plenty of time to go through all the tape, all the interviews, and all the pro-dates of the 1st and 2nd round picks. I'm sure the Browns had a board for the 4th pick done by the end of the college season. Hell, most of us have a pretty good board (and by the day of the draft, those boards tend to be pretty accurate +/- 5 to 10 picks).

The value of scouting departments, and an established group - is finding a few steals in the 5th/6th/7th rounds. I trust farmer for that more than lombardi/banner -- and I trust he will listen to the scouts more.

I do know that their boards are liquid

which is what I meant by penciled in. starting the whole board from scratch is what I'm worried about.

I don't have a lot of time but I will give U guys some reasons for what happened...
.
Haslam and Banner Disagreed and had words on the coaching search and ultimately Mike Pettine.

Banner and to a degree Lombardi tried to power play the assistant coaching hires -- which did not occur. Pettine hired who he wanted and I am told he was very steadfast in his desires, which led to a little tension in the FO.

The process of discussing and ultimately interviewing candidates, including 'how' candidates were perceived and interviewed set Haslam's course.

These moves were not in the works prior to the Browns HC search, despite Haslam's disappointment with the state of the organization.

J/C ...... for whatever it's worth .......

Supposedly we interviewed the coach of Wisconsin in "secret" (so as not to disrupt recruiting for the school) and according to a report I heard on the radio, that coach flat out said that there were too many people in the way for him to take the job. Supposedly that was just one more confirmation of what Haslam had heard from other potential candidates, and started his thought process towards streamlining the front office.

I have no idea who the guys on the radio were .... so take it for whatever it's worth.

One other note .... or stray thought ......

It is amazing that banner hired Lombardi because the 2 of them worked so well together in the past, yet there are reports of friction and differences on who each man wanted to hire as head coach. Major differences. I'm sure that played into Haslam's decision as well.

ray said in the presser they already have draft boards ready, with tweaking up to the draft.

I trust farmer for that more than lombardi/banner

I was hearing that before this all happened. I sure hope so.

Quote:

jc

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-cen...14-ef18991e59b5

anybody who didn't watch it, thats the ray farmer presser.

man, so we got a HC and a GM that look like they wanna rip peoples heads off all the time.

fine with me. that dude has this command presence to him. both of those guys.

swish...we now have some young, tough guys in charge of the franchise who come from a background in football. I include Pettine as I believe he will have more input now that Banner and Lombardi are no longer here.

You win football games with tough people who can physically match the competition, especially in the AFC North. I expect our draft to reflect the mentality of those now in charge.

j/c

Chudzinski
Horton
Turner

now,
Banner
Lombardi

Karma plays no favorites.

ray said in the presser they already have draft boards ready, with tweaking up to the draft.

that's GREAT. that just answered my question. thanks

Article from Jason LaCanfora on the Banner/Lombardi firings:

Quote:

That's the scorecard in Cleveland on Tuesday after Jimmy Haslam, whose trigger finger as a novice owner already rivals vintage Al Davis, once again went around firing some of the most important people in his organization, parting with general manager Mike Lombardi and CEO Joe Banner (Banner won't officially be gone for several months, but he was stripped of all power).

Haslam, Lombardi and Banner had been dubbed "The Three Stooges," by the Cleveland media for an awkward and meandering coaching search, one that ended up with Bills defensive coordinator Mike Pettine, a man they could have hired within days of the surprising firing of coach Rob Chudzinski after only one season, yet required almost the entire month of January to eventually hire (settle for?) him.

But make no mistake, in this pantheon, the Stooge still standing always reigns supreme, and he's the man who ultimately has final say over everything, the man who signs the checks. It's all on Haslam, and this mess he has created -- an organization that he refuses to acknowledge looks as backward as anything we've seen in the NFL for quite some time -- is all his own making.

For all of the Browns' struggles, no one saw today’s developments coming; not the men he let go and not anyone around the league. Certainly not now, so soon after hiring a new coach and less than a week before the combine.

Thus, the sharp focus of criticism is solely on Haslam, and the pointed questions came fast and furious when he met the media Tuesday afternoon. This is a supremely successful businessman -- although one whose company (Pilot Flying J) is under federal investigation, with Haslam himself part of the criminal probe -- but who was fully vetted by the league office (If Browns fans want to throw stones, you could chuck a couple in the direction of 345 Park Ave., as Haslam deflected all inquiries into his federal investigation). And it was Haslam who chose Banner, a longtime exec with the Eagles, as the man to put his new organization in place.

This was a man who, upon buying the team from Randy Lerner, decided he was going to wipe out the previous regime put in place by former team president Mike Holmgren -- entirely his prerogative and certainly the norm when a team changes hands -- and begin putting his own staff in place early in the 2012 season, led by Banner. He gave Banner final say over all football matters, and above all else, Tuesday's firings point to the fact that Haslam wants no intermediary between him and his top employees. So a structure led by Banner that he said had become "cumbersome," is now streamlined: Haslam is the boss, period. Except, well, he always has been.

So now, Pettine, Ray Farmer, who was elevated to general manager, and team president Alec Scheiner, who has become a rock star in Haslam's eyes and a very strong figure in that organization, report directly to Haslam. The owner referred to that as the organizational chart "that I’m used to," which seemed to me to be a reference to the Steelers, the franchise where he was formerly a minority owner, and where the coach and GM both report directly to the Rooneys. But that's where the comparisons stop.

In fact, I need to do a complete mea culpa here. When Haslam assumed control of the Browns, I could not have said more positive things about him, projecting a turnaround for the franchise based on what I had heard about their new owners. He seemed like the perfect fit for the long-troubled Browns, a man with a passion for football who had run a successful family business, who had already seen the inner workings of a superior franchise right within the AFC North, and who had the stamp of approval from the Rooney family and the Manning family -- talk about football royalty. I thought it was a can't miss ... only through two seasons it has turned out that Haslam can't hit.

I assumed, as did many who knew him in Pittsburgh, that Haslam would abide by the principles that make the Steelers a model franchise and the ultimate family business in pro sports: pragmatism, cohesion, consistency, incremental team building and avoiding knee-jerk responses. Shame on me. It's been just the opposite.

Now, in two seasons, Haslam has essentially blown out two entire regimes, hit the reset button a few times while making virtually no gains, and defied conventional football wisdom repeatedly. He asserts that "it was a normal time" to wipe out his front office, and he cited repeatedly that his buddies around the league in owner's suites keep telling him he has a "great franchise" that anyone would want to work for. If it wasn't for that meddling Cleveland media and the false "perceptions" about his team they keep spreading, everyone else would get it to, Haslam protests. Oh, boo-hoo. Sounds like a trite episode of Scooby Doo or something. I kept waiting for a local columnist to pull off a mask and rush the microphone or something during the at-times awkward press conference.

Here’s the reality: People across the league are stunned, again, at Haslam's total reversal. They were stunned when the Browns ended up with Chudzinski in the first place (had Haslam not given full say of the organization to Banner he may have been able to land Chip Kelly in 2013, but, again, that was his decision, his call). Then, when they fired Chudzinski after only one year, going 4-12 while enduring a rash of quarterback injuries (and letting esteemed coordinators Norv Turner and Ray Horton go as well), jaws dropped again. If you are hiring a young coach, you give him more than a year. That move isn't made without Haslam being on board.

And then, after a circuitous coaching search in which several candidates did not want to talk to the Browns (something Haslam denied, seemingly halfheartedly, on Tuesday), he ended up with Pettine (though some, like Banner, would have been content to wait for Seattle defensive coordinator Dan Quinn to get a second interview). Haslam has become the biggest pro-Pettine guy out there -- "I was really committed to Mike Pettine," he said when probed about Quinn on Tuesday.

Well, he'd better be, because if this latest rethink doesn't work, they're going to run him out of Cleveland, Simpsons-style, with someone dressed like Groundskeeper Willie leading the charge with a pitchfork.

While Haslam won't admit it, clearly he started thinking about changing his front office during that search, when he couldn't get an audience with guys like (Broncos assistant) Adam Gase and (Auburn coach) Guz Malzahn, and many believe he started to attribute some of that to the front-office structure he had in place. According to sources, about a week before Pettine was hired, Haslam reached out to confidants in the league, people like the Rooneys, talking about possibly going with a clean slate in coaching and the front office. He ultimately thought better of it. Haslam maintains, however, "I wouldn't have done one thing different with the [coaching] search," once again asking his fans and the media to suspend disbelief.

Haslam also said Farmer's promotion had nothing to do with the exec recently turning down an offer to be Miami's general manager -- something of a trend as several others declined that dubious position. But the timing of Tuesday's moves has people in other organizations believing that the sentiment to boost Farmer's role may in fact have come out of the discussions for him to stay in Cleveland over Miami. The timing of whacking your two top football operations guys just before everyone leaves for for the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis strikes people as beyond bizarre.

If Farmer was the guy to run your organization, you could have made these changes the same day you fired Chudzinski at the end of the season. Go for your clean slate then. Or, if at some point in, say, the third week of your coaching search, you get the sense Banner and/or Lombardi are holding you back, well, go promote Farmer then and let him have a role in actually hiring the new coach. Only, well, as much as Haslam can talk now about the "research" Farmer did during the coaching search, it was the owner and Banner and Scheiner and Lombardi interviewing the candidates and doing the real work. Now there are only two of those men standing.

And one thing all of us can agree upon -- even Haslam -- is the fact that this 2014 Browns draft is absolutely vital for the organization. They have to kill it (Farmer's background is primarily on the pro side, though his focus had shifted some to college with the Browns and he was at the Senior Bowl for them). They need a quarterback and pretty much a totally new offense outside of a center, a left tackle, one receiver and a tight end. And now, after Haslam's haste in sacking those around him, there is no time to spare. This team has set an expectation of immediate, substantial improvement.

Except, well, Lombardi was the guy who was leading the charge in the draft, spending much of the season on the road, focused on every aspect of the quarterback position, he and Banner charting a plan where they dealt several 2013 picks to load up for 2014, a deeper draft at many key positions for them. They also landed a first-round pick for suspect running back Trent Richardson along the way, as savvy a trade as you'll find in quite some time. Had quarterback Brian Hoyer (someone Lombardi has long championed) not suffered an injury, in what was a down year in the AFC, who is to say the Browns, once at 4-5 and in the AFC North hunt, would not have been playing meaningful football in December instead of finishing with seven straight defeats.

Several of their free-agent moves haven't panned out -- pass rusher Paul Kruger for $20 million guaranteed, for one -- but given the vortex of losing Cleveland has been since coming back in the league, you're going to have to overspend to get talent on the open market. The bottom line is Lombardi was barely on the job for a year, which is precious little time for any general manager to make a mark or to truly evaluate him. So Tuesday's verdicts appear like what has become the signature, defining axiom for Haslam's brief reign: Fire now, and ask questions later.

(Let me make a personal disclaimer here as well: I worked with Mike for three years at the NFL Network, and he was someone I came to consider a friend as well as a co-worker. I cannot quantify how much I learned about football from him during that time, and I value his football IQ very highly. However, in his year on the job in Cleveland, we spoke, maybe a half dozen times total, and rarely if ever about his team. He pretty much had zero media presence, in a public or private capacity, literally from the time he took the job until now. He was not a source for me -- or darn near anyone else as best I can tell -- as he essentially went underground and focused on scouting, and at one point at least four months passed between even a casual conversation with him during the season.)

So my opinion on the state of the Browns, or what has become of them under Haslam, isn’t related to me losing a source, or to defend Lombardi or Banner. They made plenty of mistakes there. Firing Chudzinski after one year didn't make sense to me, and you can debate the merits of their hiring if you like. But the timing of this stuff is odd, period. And bottom line is, Haslam green-lighted all of it in the first place, endorsed it publicly and with his wallet, and any dissection of this club needs to start with him, and, from here on out, end with him as well. I don't care who the GM is, especially one who does not have final say in football operations. A year isn't enough time to form a judgment, and I'd have a hard time believing Lombardi's strained relationship with the Cleveland media from his former tenure there as part of Bill Belichick’s staff didn't have something to do with Haslam letting him go so quickly).

For his part, Haslam vows he's done firing key figures for a while, and claims he only plans to "tinker with the organization" this offseason, while also making it clear he plans to bunker down more at the team headquarters in Berea, Ohio, now as well. Only time will tell how long he actually can resist the urge for more sweeping change, and in the meantime, despite already paying so much money to people long gone or just now departing, he'd do well to continue investing in the infrastructure of his organization, giving Farmer the resources to bolster some staff now, and more after the draft.

Because given his track record to this point, if the Browns endure another typical season in 2014, how could anyone not ponder the job security of the very men Haslam has just empowered these past few weeks come next January, if not sooner?

Link

Quote:

j/c

Chudzinski
Horton
Turner

now,
Banner
Lombardi

Karma plays no favorites.

A week before the 2013 season started nobody would have saw that coming. Nobody. Heck, nobody would have bet a $1 on it either.

Quote:

Supposedly we interviewed the coach of Wisconsin in "secret" (so as not to disrupt recruiting for the school) and according to a report I heard on the radio, that coach flat out said that there were too many people in the way for him to take the job. Supposedly that was just one more confirmation of what Haslam had heard from other potential candidates, and started his thought process towards streamlining the front office.

yt...I heard that the Wisc. coach turned the Browns job down...I didn't know that he openly criticized the front office.

If he proves to be the one that finally opened Haslam's eyes, I will send him a thank you card.

sounds like somebody is pissed his homeboy got fired.

Quote:

sounds like somebody is pissed his homeboy got fired.

+1

While some/most of what was writen was deserved, he really poured it on hard. Heck he even directly called Haslam a Stooge in paragraph 3.

Quote:

Quote:

Supposedly we interviewed the coach of Wisconsin in "secret" (so as not to disrupt recruiting for the school) and according to a report I heard on the radio, that coach flat out said that there were too many people in the way for him to take the job. Supposedly that was just one more confirmation of what Haslam had heard from other potential candidates, and started his thought process towards streamlining the front office.

yt...I heard that the Wisc. coach turned the Browns job down...I didn't know that he openly criticized the front office.

If he proves to be the one that finally opened Haslam's eyes, I will send him a thank you card.

I think that he criticized the structure more than anything ....... feeling that the coach was too far down the food chain. That was the impression I got.

Quote:

Article from Jason LaCanfora on the Banner/Lombardi firings:

Jason LaCanfora...more than once the Browns "front office" used him as their hatchet man...remember his article against Tom Heckert?

So now LaCanfora is going to write some propaganda to help out his old buds...Lombardi and Banner...attempting to paint Haslam as the bad guy in this.

But the truth is, Banner and Lombardi did themselves in by the way they conducted their business for Haslam. Hiring beancounter to run his football team and allowing him to hire a TV guy as GM was Haslam's fault...and Haslam admitted to making mistakes...he has to live with that.

But Lombardi and Banner's friends in the media can spin this anyway they want and it won't change a thing.

If Lombardi and Banner are so good, they should be added to someone's front office within a week. So let's watch and see how quickly Lombardi and Banner get picked up.

Quote:

I do know that their boards are liquid

which is what I meant by penciled in. starting the whole board from scratch is what I'm worried about.

Farmer is the one that was at the Senior Bowl, and he has been out on many other scouting trips.... if I had to bet any amount, I would wager that things won't even skip a beat. In fact, I would expect skipped beats to smooth out as Lombardi leaves.

Quote:

sounds like somebody is pissed his homeboy got fired.

heheh, somebody is worried that Lombardi will come after his old job at NFL Network and put LaCanfora out of work.

For those who never saw it the video of Ray talking QB's at the Senior Bowl with Dustin Fox is gold. I've been wishing Lombardi was gone since he started but seeing that vid made me hope Ray didn't hightail it to Miami. He just has a clarity in his thoughts. He really knows and is confident in how he conducts his business.

Ray

Quote:

No more "money-ball" Sabermetric BS.

Farmer Interview

In this interview Farmer talks briefly about how he uses analytics.

jc

The Good:

- Two of the Stooges are gone and I have a little (not much though) more hope for this upcoming offseason simply because they're gone.
- No more "lightning rod" leak tweets and little man's power games by LomBanner.

The Bad:

- The third Stooge is still there....to stay. I still hope the NFL steps in as soon as the FBI sacks him. Otoh, at least he realized (a little late) the "blame game" should not have ended with Chud.
- So much for "consensus". Probably the biggest structure fail I've ever witnessed within the Browns and that's really saying something. At least previous regimes were more coherently stupid, lol. But this "consensus" was basically a pissing match galore and in retrospect should be remembered as a "dis-sensus". It was the epitome of all that was wrong with those guys: Talking a big game without the know-how and people skills to execute it

The Unknown:

- Farmer. I was and am more skeptic about him than most on here. I wasn't a big fan of the KC offseasons while he was in their FO and he was a NFL personnel man iirc. Did he EVER scout College players? There's a significant difference
- Scheiner: role? Will he play "football guy" too now and throw his unqualified weight around Banner/Holmgren/Collins style? I hope not...

Overall, I feel somewhat relieved that I don't have to endure another offseason with guys running the show I had littel to no trust in. Only way is up, I guess. Otoh, I'm not automatically ecstatic about the new guys in charge.

In a nutshell: The feeling to be doomed to failure has been exchanged with lots of uncertainty. That's an "upgrade" I guess...at least there's hope of some kind of football competency being reinstated in our FO.

Quote:

but I find it hysterical that all the people who were crying about how "Haslam lied to me," and "we need continuity," and "we are the laughing stock of the NFL" are now celebrating the firing of two more guys.

We are the laughing stock of the NFL. One of the many reasons these bozo's got fired. And hiring Banner and Lombardi then firing them so quickly will further the perception that Haslam is inept and part of the laughing stock brigade....
The only way this organization will break that perception is by winning. By this being the correct decision(hiring Farmer). By allowing the new GM and HC a chance to build a team......

Yeah, like that will happen.

Good riddance! These guys were a joke as soon as they set foot in Cleveland.

Lombardi is an idiot who thought of himself as a genius, kissed Belichick's butt, and ran his mouth to those in the media, most notably Jason LaCanfora, who is trying to back him up again.There's a reason he was out of the NFL for so long. Let's see if his idol Bill gives him a job...I'm betting no.

Banner is a bean-counter who should have never been in charge of the football-side of an NFL organization. Anyone who thinks Banner helped Philly build that franchise into a contended is fooling themselves; that was Reid's operation, period.

Banner also had a reputation around the league for being difficult to work with, stemming from his fall-out with Reid. Reid has been coaching in the league as long as anyone, so I'm guessing his word has weight with a lot of coaches around then NFL. This lead to the debacle of the last two coaching searches. YOU DON'T WANT A GUY WITH THIS BAD OF A REPUTATION RUNNING YOUR FRANCHISE! I'm still not sure why the league hooked Haslam up with this stooge...something smells fishy.

I'm just glad Jimmy got rid of these now instead of waiting; I couldn't see us building any sort of winning atmosphere with these guys at the helm. I'm still not sure about Pettine as a head coach, but hopefully Jimmy saw something special in him. I can live with this group (president, GM, and coach); now give them 5 years to get this thing right!

Quote:

Quote:

No more "money-ball" Sabermetric BS.

Farmer Interview

In this interview Farmer talks briefly about how he uses analytics.

I cant get any of the videos to play...anyone have any ideas?

Quote:

Farmer. I was and am more skeptic about him than most on here. I wasn't a big fan of the KC offseasons while he was in their FO and he was a NFL personnel man iirc. Did he EVER scout College players?

I believe he was a college scout for the Falcons before working for the Chiefs.

Does Randy still own part of the team?

Most people seem thrilled about this, but I don't know.

Hopefully, it works out.

Quote:

Does Randy still own part of the team?

I believe Randy owns 30%...

Quote:

Most people seem thrilled about this, but I don't know.

People are thrilled because they hated Lombardi and they hated Banner for reasons that I am not sure of (other than hiring Lombardi).

I liked Lombardi because I listen to the BS Report with Bill Simmons and Lombardi was a frequent guest and he came across as very likeable.

I know why they are thrilled. I just don't buy their reasoning. It's not logical. It's fueled by dislike and opinion.

Again, I feel the timing of this is wrong. I feel that Farmer really hasn't proven anything yet. I worry that our draft strategy might change and we won't draft a qb at four. I think this actually gives some credibility to Haslam being whacked.

Then again..........I don't know the entire story. Maybe both those guys were buffoons and we will be better off w/out them. However, my logic tells me that if they were such buffoons, wouldn't Haslam have noticed it earlier and simply cleaned house when he fired Chud?

This almost screams of a knee-jerk reaction. I'll support the new guys, but I will freak if we don't draft a qb at four. Right now...........color me skeptical.

Quote:

Most people seem thrilled about this, but I don't know.

Hopefully, it works out.

I don't think anyone "hated them as people".

It just seemed so obvious to many that Lombardi had a terrible record at drafting as an NFL GM everywhere he went. So much so, that nobody had offered him a job in the NFL for years. And I found it all pretty funny how some defended Lombardi while calling those in the media bozos and such. According to what they called media people, Lombardi was a bozo right before he got here!

I read article after article about Banner and saw zero evidence that he had any powers other than cap management and contract negotiations in Philly.

So it was more them being hired at their positions that I hated. I didn't see what I saw as the above combination to be any kind of recipe for success.

So I see a huge difference in hating someone, and hating the fact they were hired to a certain position. While it's true that Farmer doesn't have a resume' to look back on as an NFL GM, it's also true that he doesn't have a huge resume' of failure as an NFL GM to look back on.

The way you put it, I'm not feeling much different from you.

I'm really skeptical about this latest move. If I had to choose between whether this latest round of firings is good or bad, I would have to say that it's good for the long-term. Given their whole body of work with the Browns (not a whole lot), I'd say they did more harm than good. They also did some good things, which did give me some hope for the future.

That said, all this turnover in such a short time is not good. We can hypothesize about "addition by subtraction", but how are we supposed to be excited/onboard with the latest group of guys? They were hired by Haslam as well (Farmer was brought in by Banner). It's easy to envision us being in a similar situation next year, and if so, do we fire everyone again?

I said so earlier, but I'll say it again. I definitely won't shed a tear for Banner and Lombardi leaving, but I'm not so sure all of the problems have been addressed.

Also, I'm not sure why you're issuing your ultimatum about QB by pick 4. There is a very real possibility that QBs will go 1, 2, 3. This makes taking a QB impossible (at least it should be). Also, if 1 or 2 QBs go off the board before 4, we still might not take the 3rd guy, and I think I'd be ok with that. If we can't get our guy, then we should't force a QB at the 4 pick.

I'm thrilled. I don't think Jimmy liked TL at all. Banner tied ML to himself as to sink or swim and he sank.

This:

Quote:

This almost screams of a knee-jerk reaction.

How you came to that is beyond me. I think this thing has been building up over quite some time. The only reason TL was here was because of banner. I don't think Jimmy wanted him at all. But, Banner insisted it was all good. Then all the uproar of the coaching search and all the comments by the one's who withdrew their names. I think Jimmy realized that Joe/Tom wanted this Team to be their own personal plaything. Banner wanted all the Power and I'm glad Jimmy cut him off at the knee's, and took Tom with him. Now I think we have Real Football People in place, that want nothing but the best for our Browns.

I love Ray Farmer as a guy. I like everything he has said to date. I have nothing but positives in my book. I see reason for skepticism but I like what I see in him so I have no reason not to support it.

Haslam is in place unless he sells or is relieved. I see no reason for me to care or discuss what he does. That's just me.

I never cared for Lombardi. I didn't feel he had the resume to deserve the job or the skills to do it successfully. I don't like him as a man either but I try to leave that out of my opinion on someone especially before. I absolutely think Farmer is more qualified.

Banner was a great numbers man but he did seem a little power hungry. I wish he had just been Pres instead of CEO. Maybe he would've been had the whole Haslam scandal not taken place. Supposedly he was in agreement to step down. I really can't say what to believe. I kinda wish he could still act as Pres and handle the cap for us. If he truly did step down in agreement I'd like to believe were in good hands with Alek.

i guess i never understood the love that people had for banner.

posters wanna mention cap, but that is absolutely it. so what? he managed the cap on a winning organization.

14 years, andy reid had 3 losing seasons. thats it. his first season was 5-11, the year after that 11-5, and the bandwagon began.

here's the stats on W-L

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/ReidAn0.htm

so imo, when you have a HC who is great at coaching players, and all you do is manage the cap, its easy for that team to plug and find guys to fill the spots when everybody already is winning.

but building a team from the ground up is completely different. and in that, he has ZERO experience.

and lombardi? man come on....

That's his plus. He's a smart numbers guy. A glorified accountant. And a damn good one at that. Never should have been a head honcho though.

I researched Farmer's bio.

He NEVER scouted College ranks. "Only" was a pro personnel scout and later Director of Pro Personnel for the Chiefs from 2006 to 2012. Their records in those seasons were: 9-7, 4-12, 2-14, 4-12, 10-6, 7-9, 2-14 or 38-74 overall.

Somewhat disappointed in that: You don't need to be a scout to be a good GM, but I hope he listens to scouts more than GM's who were scouts themselves.

i dunno DJ

you making it seem like he was coaching those teams. come on man.

especially look at that 2-14 season. how many pro bowlers did they have? yea...he helped pick those players.

it just seems you expect him to coach on the field too, even after you have said RAC wasn't that good of a coach.

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I'm thrilled. I don't think Jimmy liked TL at all. Banner tied ML to himself as to sink or swim and he sank.

This:

Quote:
This almost screams of a knee-jerk reaction.

How you came to that is beyond me.

Beyond you? Hmmmm.........

If they were so terrible, why didn't he fire them when he fired Chud? It's knee jerk.

And who the hell is ML?

I know who ML is (Mike Lombardi) but who is TL?

LOL.............heck, I'm all confused.

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Wow.
I'm now more excited than nervous for the draft.

I have the exact same sentiments

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jc…

Think this decision was reached by consensus?

Quote:

especially look at that 2-14 season. how many pro bowlers did they have? yea...he helped pick those players.

Wrong, as he wasn't running the drafts and that's where the PB's came from.

In 2012 he signed CB Routt to a terrible three year deal that paid him 11mil (!!) that season alone. Routt was so bad, they cut him after that season. He's probably still bathing in those 11mil he got, lol. For that money you could have gotten TWO much better starting caliber CBs last FA. He also signed Brady Quinn as a backup QB, who ended up losing lots of games for them and those horrible moves contributed to him getting fired. That and doing next to nothing, not getting any good players in teh two FAs before that....

I'm happy as anyone to get rid of LomBanner, but Farmer has a pretty crappy resumee himself on a different job to boot.

Nrtu

I'm sad t the timing of this so close to the draft.... But when is a good time to fire your CEO and gm?

I like the fact that if Hallam thinks its not working that he will go out and try to change... But t the same time I worry that he has either picked guys that obviously didn't work, is getting bad advice on guys that didn't work out, or is settling for guys who haven't worked out or a combination of all three

I like farmer and like the way the organization is set up now...as long as jimmy is not making player decisions I'm cool.... Here's hoping this is the right combination of personel so we don't have to do this again next year

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What the heck is going on over there? Just when you thought things can't get more whacked? So did Banner or Lambardi fire Chud? If so, I am irate! Is Pettine a Farmer guy? Holy Moly!!

No man.....Haslam is now running the ship.

He went with who the NFL handed him....he was a new owner.....and he went wiht the marshmellow Chud, who again was handed to him....this year.....I am doing what I want and this is my pick.

Go Jimmy.

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i dunno DJ

you making it seem like he was coaching those teams. come on man.

especially look at that 2-14 season. how many pro bowlers did they have? yea...he helped pick those players.

it just seems you expect him to coach on the field too, even after you have said RAC wasn't that good of a coach.

If you mean that the guy on the phone in Radio City helped in the picks,then yes he helped.
Other than that he was on Pro Player side,scouting then Director.
It's your Ray of hope,stick with it.

so Ray was a scout?

Edit: i got it now, thanks.

my bad DJ.

Just a general reply.

Six on one hand, half a dozen on the other.
The only thing I find surprising today is that any long time Dawgtalker would be surprised.

Oh well, good luck, I don't think they will have much success as long as Baltimore and Pittsburgh, (and now Cincinnati) are in their division. ( At least not in one season, which is the new standard.)

I kind of wish Haslem could have found a way, when he first bought the team, to keep, Heckert, and whomever they were. Well at least to have kept Heckert.

It feels like 1999 and a half. Which is better than any time since 2006. Why did they dismantle that 2007 team so fast again?

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Why did they dismantle that 2007 team so fast again?

Because 2007 is a vacuum. It wasn't any good any other year.

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What the heck is going on over there? Just when you thought things can't get more whacked? So did Banner or Lambardi fire Chud? If so, I am irate! Is Pettine a Farmer guy? Holy Moly!!

No man.....Haslam is now running the ship.

He went with who the NFL handed him....he was a new owner.....and he went wiht the marshmellow Chud, who again was handed to him....this year.....I am doing what I want and this is my pick.

Go Jimmy.

Giddy up. I'm with you. I think Jimmy will be the best thing to happen to this franchise in a long time.

I've read a number of things that led to Banner and Lombardi's ousting and none of it is surprising if you are the type to connect the dots over the last several months.

I think people should be happy today...not that two people lost their jobs...but that I think Haslam is serious about getting the right people in place and creating an environment and winning culture that people want to be a part of.

Not sure about Farmer, but if he somehow can figure out how to land Bridgewater, I'll be a happy camper.

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What the heck is going on over there? Just when you thought things can't get more whacked? So did Banner or Lambardi fire Chud? If so, I am irate! Is Pettine a Farmer guy? Holy Moly!!

No man.....Haslam is now running the ship.

He went with who the NFL handed him....he was a new owner.....and he went wiht the marshmellow Chud, who again was handed to him....this year.....I am doing what I want and this is my pick.

Go Jimmy.

I can't disagree with you at all.

I haven't posted in quite a while as I usually save my time for talking about the real Browns season...the offseason and the draft.

All I can say is what a clusterfudge

I don't know how a franchise could be run any worse over a 15 year timeframe and this is not to say it is a bad move but a WTF were you thinking when you made the hires 12 months ago

I don't know which article it was. But it said something along the lines of "Haslem has hired 3 people and fired all three of them"

Which I disagree with.

Haslem didn't "hire" Banner, he was basically given him by the NFL for the work he did on the deal for Jimmy to buy the place. Then Banner brought in Lombardi. And they (IMO) sold Banner a bill of goods on the HC they could bring in, and ended up "settling" for Chud.

And then Jimmy realized it was all a mess. He didn't like the way it was and changed it.

He got rid of Chud, and then brought in Pettine, He got rid of Banner and Lombardi, and I think that's why Farmer didnt go to Miami.

There is a logical setup to our FO now. Not one guy (Banner) doing everything. Its a HC and a GM working together, and along with a President that all report to Haslem. No he's not ganna make decisions. But I feel he will have imput. And should.

The setup is great. Now we find out if they are the right people. And make the right decisions

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I don't know which article it was. But it said something along the lines of "Haslem has hired 3 people and fired all three of them"

Which I disagree with.

Haslem didn't "hire" Banner, he was basically given him by the NFL for the work he did on the deal for Jimmy to buy the place. Then Banner brought in Lombardi. And they (IMO) sold Banner a bill of goods on the HC they could bring in, and ended up "settling" for Chud.

And then Jimmy realized it was all a mess. He didn't like the way it was and changed it.

He got rid of Chud, and then brought in Pettine, He got rid of Banner and Lombardi, and I think that's why Farmer didnt go to Miami.

There is a logical setup to our FO now. Not one guy (Banner) doing everything. Its a HC and a GM working together, and along with a President that all report to Haslem. No he's not ganna make decisions. But I feel he will have imput. And should.

The setup is great. Now we find out if they are the right people. And make the right decisions

I agree to some extent. However - I have ZERO problem with Haslam as a new owner hiring 3 people - realizing they are not running his team they way he wants - and firing them. To me that's him looking in the mirror and owning his mistakes and airing his laundry in public. He's taken his lumps, taken action, wants to do it right ASAP without any regard to how the media will play it. Kudos to him.

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That's his plus. He's a smart numbers guy. A glorified accountant. And a damn good one at that. Never should have been a head honcho though.

That's true of most "numbers" guys. There has to be someone in charge other than a numbers guy.

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I'm thrilled. I don't think Jimmy liked TL at all. Banner tied ML to himself as to sink or swim and he sank.

This:

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This almost screams of a knee-jerk reaction.

How you came to that is beyond me.

Beyond you? Hmmmm.........

If they were so terrible, why didn't he fire them when he fired Chud? It's knee jerk.

And who the hell is ML?

So explain to me how it's kneee jerk to wait and watch how things play out....

Chud was Banner's choice right? You were right behind Chud being let go right? So he wasn't the right guy for the job..... 2013 draft was anemic on impact players or starters - that's on Banner right? Failing to get any of the "top" HC prospects to come to Cleveland (and possibly hearing through Peyton Manning that the reason was Banner) is on Banner right .... so why is it knee jerk to look at his FO and say its not working how I want and I am going to change it..... to me that's called making good sense.

I wasn't behind him firing Chud. I stated I was disappointed in the move. I said they either hired the wrong guy or fired him too quickly.

My argument was against all the "woe is me" crowd who kept crying about being lied to. I also said that Chud's record wasn't that great.

Right now.......I guess what is running through my head the most is that there are so many people who were screaming bloody murder about Haslam being a liar, the importance of continuity, us being a laughingstock for firing a HC after one year are now ignoring those same arguments and are celebrating a very similar move.

Hypocritical nonsense.

And your argument for not being a knee jerk move is ridiculous.

Nah, this wasn't a knee jerk reaction. Good move by Haslam... feel much better (don't read that as feeling great... just not as bad lol).

I think Haslam had been taking stock of what was going on in Berea and didn't like how it was going. I think that culminated with this last HC hiring process. I think Haslam was not impressed at all with how that went... how could he be? I really think that was the last straw and so he made the move. Good for him. I like the structure in place now.

Now, this is the only muligan Haslam gets. There can't be any further significant upheaval and if there is then I'll retrack all this and conclude Haslam is a mess. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt though because I really like Farmer and the coaching staff in place now seem pretty good. Just don't blow it up again lol.

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I wasn't behind him firing Chud. I stated I was disappointed in the move. I said they either hired the wrong guy or fired him too quickly.

My argument was against all the "woe is me" crowd who kept crying about being lied to. I also said that Chud's record wasn't that great.

Right now.......I guess what is running through my head the most is that there are so many people who were screaming bloody murder about Haslam being a liar, the importance of continuity, us being a laughingstock for firing a HC after one year are now ignoring those same arguments and are celebrating a very similar move.

Hypocritical nonsense.

And your argument for not being a knee jerk move is ridiculous.

I think there were probably many many factors that went into Haslams decision and without knowledge of any of them - and only speculation to go on - its impossible to put a winning argument forward one way or another.

My simple scenario is this - Even if you have stated you want continuity (based on previous constant turnover and turmoil) as the owner of the Browns if you look and see that the leadership of the team from Banner down is 100% not what you wanted or envisioned after one year and you are convinced the people in place will NOT turn the franchise around ----- and knowing that any change will get you vilified by nearly all the media and at least half your fan base .... what would you do?

Now add to that an impending potential indictment that could temporarily prevent you from making the decision you want to make once those proceedings start ... .what do you do?

I wanted Chud to be given the opportunity to succeed - which he wasnt. But I like the direction of the new regime more than I could have under the old regime.

If I've got an inkling of a feeling that something will never be right I'm not waiting three to five years to prove it to myself.

These two seemed to be lightening rods for controversial issues from the start. If I'm the owner I'm ridding myself of the problems. The media can say what they wish (they will anyway) Jimmy made a good move today.

That's fine. I hope it works out.

Firing Lombardi may be the only smart thing Haslam has accomplished since he bought the Browns. I didnt have an issue with Banner other than him hiring Lombardi. Anyway Lerner didnt want to run the browns so he did need a team president. Haslam wants to run the Browns so there is no need for a team president.

Banner is a backstabber and he has irked a lot of people with the playing stuff through the media. leaking that chud would be fired before the last game, was just classless. Him telling Chud who to play, is no good.

I cracked up when i read LaCanfora saying he wasnt ripping on Haslam because he was losing a source lol. Leak got plugged. Browns are better for it. Lets hope Haslam has it right this time cause with all this chaos and we may be starting a rookie Qb, whats gonna happen if we win 2 games? lol

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Pretty sure it was a JH majority of one. Must have been a lot of blockage or frustration. Banner may have overreached? Must have been a lot building for awhile or one big blowup. I want to know more.

I think Haslam took the NFL's advise on start up. Watched, dealt with the Pilot thing, and gave Banner/Lombardi enough rope to hang themselves. I was thinking something was up when reading draft stuff, and the only name I saw was Farmers. When he turned away from Miami and Shanahan suddenly said ok, I think Pettine, Farmer and Shany had been assured the egomaniacs would be gone. Thanks Jimmy. Just my .02

Just listened to Farmer's PC.

So, we are back to the GM choosing the 53 man roster. Great.

My issue is the same as it was with Chud....knee jerk. As we had discussed after Chud's canning, Haslem made that call not Banner or Lombardi after the poor way we finished the season. I had no real love for Chud, and wasn't upset he was gone, but was not happy with the knee jerk reaction. I think he made the same call on Banner/Lombardi. He heard negative things in the media and some league types he trusted and made a hasty decision. I'm not unhappy either is gone, and Farmer is at least well thought of throughout the league it appears (though we've seen that before). My issue is the pattern we are seeing here with Haslem.

He is either a rookie owner who realized he screwed up setting up his ENTIRE staff and fired them quickly......or is an utter idiot in the Jones mode. Time will tell us I supposed.

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Just listened to Farmer's PC.

What did he say in regards to the QB position?

I haven't the faith that Haslam has the wherewithal to pull himself out of the mess that he created.
The only glimmer of hope in this bad Abbott and Costello routine of a franchise is the hiring of Kuharach.A gentleman and a football scholar.

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Just listened to Farmer's PC.

What did he say in regards to the QB position?

In a vid I saw of him he talked extensively about how the ability to react to information(reading D's, adjustments, etx) is the most important factor in a QB. While everyone want's one of the top6-8 QB's who can win a game on their own your lucky if you do and if you build your team the right way there's no reason you can't be just as successful with an intelligent game manager.

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Just listened to Farmer's PC.

So, we are back to the GM choosing the 53 man roster. Great.

Was it Lombardi and Banner in charge of the roster ? It may be better now. Guess all we can do is wait and see. Again

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Just listened to Farmer's PC.

So, we are back to the GM choosing the 53 man roster. Great.

beats the heck out of having a president do it, or a consensus of Banner and Lombardi.

I'll take Farmer over either of those scenarios

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I haven't the faith that Haslam has the wherewithal to pull himself out of the mess that he created.
The only glimmer of hope in this bad Abbott and Costello routine of a franchise is the hiring of Kuharach.A gentleman and a football scholar.

I have more faith today than I did yesterday

Amen bro. AMEN

Saw that video. Liked what he had to say.

JC

HOLYCOW!!! I just got off work (Alaska time) and couldn't talk to anyone about this. I am super happy. I hoped Banner and Lombardi would work out.......but in my heart of hearts I didn't think they would. I am glad that football people are in charge for the most part (Haslem excepted) where I like to see them.

I agree with many that I'm way more optimistic today than I was yesterday.

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Just listened to Farmer's PC.

What did he say in regards to the QB position?

Another poster posted it a few pages back, but here is an interview with Farmer at the Senior Bowl (I believe) discussing how he evaluates QBs. Very good interview.

Ray Farmer: Scouting QBs

Thanks.

Ray just gets it. That is one of the things I get about the guy

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Just listened to Farmer's PC.

So, we are back to the GM choosing the 53 man roster. Great.

Woe is Vers?

The best part of Farmer's presser.

"A general managers role is to ensure the success of his head coach."

Lombardi never got the memo.
And Banner had a severe case of "Bruce Almighty".

I'm not going to read thru this whole thread but I have read a bunch of stuff today and listened to Haslam's presser and a few other's and I'll just say that of all the things that could have gone down with this team in the last few weeks and months this might be the best thing to happen of all of them. I've been a whole sale pessimist since the firing of Chud and I'm not under the illusion that things are going to be all rosey now but the organization makes ALOT more sense to me now.

I said a few weeks ago when Pett was hired that it just didn't matter who coached because the way the FO was put together was built for failure. The wrong people in the wrong positions, over lapping duties and corporate structure that was bound to alienate it's own parties. I can smell a bad corporate structure a mile away. I don't invest in companies that don't have upper mgmt sorted out and good people in place with well defined roles. Nothing below a dysfunctional upper mgmt will work properly.

Anyway, count me among the cautiously optimistic. I think Haslam, though more than a bit hair triggered and impulsive (red flags both) made the right move. The order of things is pretty out of whack and it may all fall on it's face again due to the order of events but I honestly feel things have a better chance of working out today than they did yesterday. We'll see.

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Just listened to Farmer's PC.

So, we are back to the GM choosing the 53 man roster. Great.

Yeah, it was much better with Banner doing it....

I don't know if Ray Farmer will succeed. But I do know our chances at having a quality draft have improved greatly. Farmer is a football guy. He played the game. He's paid his dues on the football side of the front office. Unlike Banner who had little to do with the football side in Philadelphia. Ray Farmer is like a tiny ray of HOPE to those of us that know this upcoming draft and free agency period is vitally important to the future of this franchise.
Were you really confident Banner would choose wisely in May? That he could choose a franchise QB? That he could change the fate of the franchise in one draft? I sure as hell wasn't. I think Farmer will work together with Pettine to build a team. It's up to them to be successful at that endeavor.

What a day... I am not sure if it is a good day or not, but let's speculate...

I think that the wheels began to fall off when it was leaked that Chud was gone before the last game. That is a sign that the organization was not disciplined. Haslam may had made the call, but it should have never been out there before black Monday.

Haslam will probably never watch the 3 stooges. That conference will not be forgotten anytime soon.

It is pretty clear that Banner or Lombardi misjudged the interest in the Browns HC job. Ultimately they select a coach that they could have selected in a day or two.

I have to wonder what happened during the coaching interviews, and how Banner and/or Lombardi were posturing. Coaching candidates may have had some interesting things to say about the risk of the job at hand. My guess is that they wound up looking a bit foolish.

I also think that Haslam may have reached out to those outside the organization, and heard another earful about how firing Chud was a stupid thing to do. Yeah Haslam made the call, but Banner and Lombardi should have protected their owner better.

In the end, Haslam has a conversation with Farmer about the Miami gig, realizes that the better person is Farmer, and makes the move.

I like what I hear from Farmer. We won't know fore a year or two, but I have a better feeling today.

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No more "money-ball" Sabermetric BS.

Farmer Interview

In this interview Farmer talks briefly about how he uses analytics.

Yeah, I missed it the first time. I didn't miss it this time.

Damn.

That was one impressive interview. When I listen to someone talk, I hear the words just like anybody else. BUT- I also listen for content, as well. By that I mean:

1. Is there a certain heft- a gravitas to their words?
2. Do they speak with the kind of authority that comes from true knowledge of the craft?

His delivery alone tells me that he has an incisive mind which is very organized and supremely focused. His answers were serious, well-spoken and extremely direct. It's the exact set of traits one would want for an individual in his position.

The GM must be a 'lens of clarity' if the operation is to succeed. He must be able to understand the needs of the coaching staff, be able to clearly direct the scouting staff, and coalesce everyone's needs/efforts toward one focused goal. He can't just be 'draft smart' or 'management smart'. He can't just be 'people smart,' either. He must be fairly good at all 3 to be a success. This guy strikes me as a clear-speaking communicator with a sharp brain. I'm looking forward to seeing if he really could be 'the next Ozzie.' (Yeah... I remember the 'Miami articles'...)

Maybe it's the Browns fanboy in me talking, but I'm starting to get a pretty good vibe about this guy. Others have mentioned his 'no nonsense' air, and I agree. But for me, there's something beyond that, as well. During the interview, he handled that correspondent's lameazz questions with coherence and command, but never stopped studying the field. He didn't treat the interview like it was a distraction, and he never let it distract him from what he was there to do. ALL BIDNISS. Boom.

Pettine strikes me similarly. No hype- but extremely solid and professional.
______________________

It's early, but I think I'm starting to see a pattern of similarity here with the kinds of guys in power positions: young, serious, accomplished lunch-pail dudes who are poised to prove themselves.

IMHO, the best thing Haslam could do right now is back out of the spotlight and let these guys work it out for a couple years.

J/C

After hearing this news this afternoon, I just laughed...this organization is a joke, I should have expected something like this.

You will never know if you have the right or wrong guy unless you give them a chance....what a waste....im not saying I liked either of these two clowns, but I was willing to give them a chance.

oh well bring on the next bums....Haslam is a joke...he called Chud "such a bright mind in the NFL and he was my guy" and fired him 8 months later.

Farmer and Pettine, if I were you, I would keep that resume handy....because so far, an endorsement from Haslam has been the kiss of death EVERY person Haslam has endorsed has been fired shortly later.....good luck with that.....

Sometimes, the Browns make me think im watching comedy central...theres no way this can be real...they can't be serious!....but they are....LOL!

Honestly though, with this comedy show, if this team only wins like 4-5 games, it may be the biggest crap storm this team has ever seen, it may even cause a flat out revolt and the fans may very well turn completely against Haslam....

Randy Lerner may have made some bad choices, but at least he gave his choices a fair chance...i'll give him that much.....Jimmy is running this thing like he would run a truck stop and that just don't work.

One may rightfully ask just how many levels of incompetence we were truly in possession of. With that in mind, how troublesome is this fact:

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Ray Farmer is the new GM, promoted from assistant GM. Alec Scheiner becomes a true president, in charge of business operations with no CEO over him.

They, along with coach Mike Pettine, will report directly to Haslam.

So...there's that.

Cutting out the middle-men...

I like the structure now. Owner > GM > HC.

Before I always saw it as Owner > Blurry Picture of Exactly Who's Doing What > HC

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My issue is the same as it was with Chud....knee jerk. As we had discussed after Chud's canning, Haslem made that call not Banner or Lombardi after the poor way we finished the season. I had no real love for Chud, and wasn't upset he was gone, but was not happy with the knee jerk reaction. I think he made the same call on Banner/Lombardi. He heard negative things in the media and some league types he trusted and made a hasty decision. I'm not unhappy either is gone, and Farmer is at least well thought of throughout the league it appears (though we've seen that before). My issue is the pattern we are seeing here with Haslem.

He is either a rookie owner who realized he screwed up setting up his ENTIRE staff and fired them quickly......or is an utter idiot in the Jones mode. Time will tell us I supposed.

Rookie owner who has been embarrassed by the perception of his team, plus the agendas by Banner and Lombardi.
Remember what I told U about the coaching search as to him getting involved? Around that time I heard about there might be a shakeup in the FO..I didn' t mention it because I didn't know if it were true..turns out it was.
Haslam while interviewing had a chance to view his people. H e didn't like it.

Yeah I saw that too... The organization change from vertical (chain of command) to flat (all report to one) in a second.

Now Haslam is right smack in the middle of his investment.

https://twitter.com/adamschefter

CLEV hiring former Chiefs VP of Player Personnel Bill Kuharich to assist new Browns GM Ray Farmer, per sources. They worked together in KC.

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I like the structure now. Owner > GM > HC.

Before I always saw it as Owner > Blurry Picture of Exactly Who's Doing What > HC

I think it said that Pettine and Farmer report to Haslam..

this what one candidate allegedly said:

Source spoke to 2013 coaching candidate who called his interview "dysfunctional." Said men in charge couldn't even agree on questions.

https://twitter.com/treed1919

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Something interesting I remember thinking right after Pettine was hired as the head coach: During one of the videos where Pettine was going around the Browns facility introducing himself to various staff, there was a few seconds where he said hi to Lombardi and it was a very brief, almost cold exchange like they had never even spoken before. It came off as very odd at the time.

Actually I made a post about just that when that video came out on the Brown's official forum ... http://brownschat.clevelandbrowns.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4731011/m/303108835?r=296109835#296109835

What I think happened is simple. Haslam has talked numerous times with all these guys. It don't take long to tell Farmer is the real deal. He is a football guy through and through. Pettine is a hardcore football guy. You can see where and what Halsem wants. Banner and Lombardi are NOT football guys, I don't care what you say.

I see real identity forming now that wasn't there before. don't know if Pettine is the right coach for us BUT as Haslem said he is the best we could get. Notice... not the one we wanted most, but the one we could get. Still I think their personalities match.

Either way, I like how things have shaken up. I'd rather have Farmer than Lombardi and banner anyday and they kept a money man for the business side so it means our GM and Coaches will have no distractions and no excuses.

j/c

This simply does not not look good. I guess many forgot how well the Crennel and Savage show went. Now we have the Pettine and Farmer act. Does anyone see how this works?

Banner and Lombardi came with a lot of heavy baggage. As a fan, I was so hoping it would work. When are us fans going to actually see a football team built? If Farmer and Pettine can't bring any hope, I see no reason Browns players will resign.

With this new hire, I see nothing promising for the next two years. I will be shocked if Farmer can resign Ward and Mack. Weeden, not that it means much, is asking out. FA is a couple of weeks. Who thinks Browns land any quality help?

There were many wanting Jr. to sell the team. There was a strong argument against and stated be careful what you wished for. I believe this franchise has hit rock bottom again. How soon will we hear the word "patience?"

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I will be shocked if Farmer can resign Ward and Mack.

One will be back. I don't know which one, but one will. (Thank you franchise tag!)

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FA is a couple of weeks. Who thinks Browns land any quality help?

Money talks. Especially in football. Also, it has been said that players are turned off by Banner.

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How soon will we hear the word "patience?"

If you listen to Farmer's interviews it seems as though he is saying the exact opposite.

There are some interesting nuggets in here that I bolded. I will believe the Peyton Manning stuff when I see it.

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CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Jimmy Haslam's blockbuster announcement Tuesday that Browns CEO Joe Banner and GM Mike Lombardi are gone only came as half of a shock to me.

• Browns Fan Central: Listen to live audio, read our live blog and chat in the comments live about the team shakeup

The writing was on the wall for Mike Lombardi's departure as long ago as Dec. 30 when the Browns conducted their press conference to address the firing of Rob Chudzinski.

That day, Browns owner Jimmy Haslam was asked why Lombardi was not part of the press conference or other big Browns moments.

“I’ve never really thought about it, to be honest,'' Haslam responded.

It was telling, that it never really occurred to Haslam that Lombardi wasn't there. Then, on the day coach Mike Pettine was hired, Farmer turned down a second interview with the Miami Dolphins for their GM job, and Haslam pumped him up after the Pettine presser, calling Farmer a rising star in the NFL. I bounced my hunch that Lombardi was gone off two NFL GMs that day, and neither had heard the whispers yet.

I also asked Farmer and Banner during Super Bowl week if Farmer was promised the GM job here, and both said no.

But it all added up to one thing: Lombardi was persona non grata with the team and not long for Cleveland.

The Banner departure, on the other hand, came as a complete shock to me -- but it shouldn't have. Here's why: The day Pettine was hired, Banner said the toughest decision of the entire coaching search was passing up a chance to interview Seahawks defensive coordinator Dan Quinn a second time. He praised Quinn and predicted he'll be an excellent head coach someday. It was clear that Banner wanted to wait for Quinn, and that Haslam pulled the trigger on hiring Pettine.

I asked Haslam about that on Tuesday, and he said, "I was really committed to coach Pettine.''

Some other thoughts rattling around my brain in the aftermath of this huge overhaul:

• The Peyton Manning Factor: Haslam currently has no CEO in the front office. My guess is that he'll offer that job to Broncos quarterback Peyton Manning someday. He loves Manning, they're great friends, and he's watched what John Elway has done in running the Broncos. Manning will play at least one more season to break Brett Favre's record for TD passes, but might be lured into a CEO role after that. The day Haslam agreed to purchase the Browns, I asked him if he'd bring Manning aboard, and he praised Manning, saying among other things, "he's very smart.''

• What does this mean for quarterback Brian Hoyer? Lombardi has long loved Hoyer and brought him to Cleveland. The new staff seems to love him too, but what if the Browns draft a quarterback with their No. 4 overall pick? If Hoyer wants a chance to start now that he's proven he can win, Texans coach Bill O'Brien, who coached Hoyer in New England, would probably at least be intrigued. Would the Browns part with him? Maybe not. But if they're looking for a good backup for their rookie, they can try to trade for Redskins backup Kirk Cousins, whom offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan really likes.

• Banner saved Haslam: Haslam had no idea what he was doing when he first purchased the Browns, and couldn't have gotten up and running without Banner. Banner hired tremendous people, including president Alec Scheiner, and helped secure financing for the stadium improvements. He also helped secure naming right for FirstEnergy Stadium and completely redesigned the Browns facility in Berea. But Banner took a huge risk in bringing Mike Lombardi in as his general manager, and it indirectly led to his own departure.

Lombardi was never accepted by the local media, and when it came to the coaching search, some candidates were leery of him. Others were wary of Banner and some had issues with both. Whether the concerns of the candidates were real or perceived, it's a fact that some shied away from the Browns because of the two -- and Haslam knew it.

• Would Rob Chudzinski have been fired if this shakeup had happened before the end of the season? Some insiders have told me that Haslam really liked Chudzinski ("Chud was Haslam's guy,'' said one source) and probably would have given him at least another year. "Those are hard decisions,'' Haslam said Tuesday. "I think we made the right decisions, we’re really excited about coach Pettine.'' Too bad Chudzinski had to lose his dream job in the midst of this upheaval.

• Who are some of the candidates that didn't want to come? I've been told that O'Brien and Ken Whisenhunt didn't want to coach here because of either Banner, Lombardi or both. O'Brien didn't even interview for the job this year. Wisconsin coach Gary Anderson also took himself out of the running.

• A sea change? One NFL GM told me today "I will do business with the Browns again -- and I'm not the only one that feels this way.'' I don't think a lot of teams felt this way, but at least a few did.

Link

there were rumors manning told haslem, the franchise will never reach it's potential with banner there. From what I've read on twitter that guy was hated by the people in the front office. I think Banner was toast, when he couldn't deliver on a high profile coach, and couldn't function with Lombardi running the show.

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Money talks. Especially in football. Also, it has been said that players are turned off by Banner.

Not if the owner is paying three generations of fired FO and coaches. For quality players, they sometimes want to play for teams with expectations of playoffs. By the way, and I could be mistaken, weren't you one of the people posting Browns paid to much for Kruger and Desmond Bryant? If not, there were certainly fans who protested the hire. I guess it will be justified this year because the have the second highest cap.

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If you listen to Farmer's interviews it seems as though he is saying the exact opposite.

How many times dose a new hire state "patience" at his first presser? Well, other than Holmgren!

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I've got two thoughts on this.
1.Don't go near Jimmy when he has a hangover,wow.
2.All you guys touting Farmer,what do you know about him? That's right,nothing.He was Pro Player in KC,that title has little to nothing to do with the draft.
So,come draft day,we will again be led by rookies.You know,people that have never done it before.But because he isn't Lombardi or Banner,he must be good.

I don't think that's really it at all.

There are those that certainly had it in for this front office that will be happy with Banner & Lombardi gone. I'm not ambivalent about them really, but I didn't like the merciless bashing of them. I thought that it showed a lack of class. It was there from the first day that Banner was brought in and Lombardi was hired.

Will we know what they were going to do in the draft? Not anymore. However, Farmer isn't bad at all. I like him. He's light on the resume but all personnel guys start somewhere. He was our Asst. GM. It isn't like he was totally out of the loop on things and didn't know anything. I think it's obvious that he did. Miami wouldn't have asked for the opportunity to speak to him if he hadn't.

I'm surprised by the move but I'm not upset by it. It's just my viewpoint, but I think Farmer was a good choice. And I like that they promoted him from within the organization too.

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For quality players, they sometimes want to play for teams with expectations of playoffs.

Sometimes. But most times they just want money.

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By the way, and I could be mistaken, weren't you one of the people posting Browns paid to much for Kruger and Desmond Bryant?

You are mistaken. I like both signings.

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If not, there were certainly fans who protested the hire.

There will always be some fan that protests a signing.

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How many times dose a new hire state "patience" at his first presser?

I might be mistaken, but I didn't here it once today.

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How many times dose a new hire state "patience" at his first presser?

I might be mistaken, but I didn't here it once today.

Exactly my point. Do we hear it when FA signings fall short of expectations. Maybe during the draft when excuses fly Farmer didn't have time. Funny all the negatives remain the same year after year.

Oh well, there is always opening day. Hopefully we still have the same owner. Jimmy still has a date with the Feds in court.

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this ain't pilot Jimmy. No one knew what you did at pilot, no one cared until you were found to be screwing customers on rebates. You could fire someone because they didn't meet your expectations, and everyone in the company thought "great vision Jimmy. Good move."

Actually that's not all that close to how corporate America works.. I've been involved in many firings at various levels and typically you get a reaction very much like this board among the remaining employees... some will view it as a good move, some will view it that he was a fall guy and it was really that person's boss who deserved it, there is often speculation over whether the company line is true (not making enough money, making bad decisions, etc.) It's very rare that you get a consensus that it was either a good or a bad move... unless the person did something illegal or totally unethical... even then some will defend them.

Of course upper management is going to tell the big boss it was a good move, that's the way corporate america works.. but when they get away from the big boss, they will have their own opinions. and Jimmy's a smart guy, I'm sure he knows these things...

All that said, I'm sure he also realizes he's new to the football thing and is learning as he goes...

The following is a very informative article from a very respected national writer in Peter King. He talked directly to Jimmy Haslam, so one can assume that much of the information in the article can be attributed to Haslam. King takes shots at Haslam and the Browns because from the outside looking in this all looks pretty bad.

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In Haslam’s 17-month tenure, the team has employed 56 coaches.

To call the Browns a circus would be an insult to circuses.

“Well,’’ Haslam told The MMQB by phone, “there’s no training manual for being an NFL owner. There’s a steep learning curve to do it the right way, and I admit we didn’t get it right at first. But I am determined to do it right, and to get the right people in place.

“In my business career, most of the mistakes I’ve made come from not moving quickly enough when you know there’s a tough decision to be made. The easy thing to do here would be to stay doing what you’re doing, even when you feel like you need to change course.’’

The latest Browns’ shakeup handed the GM job to a man, Ray Farmer, who wasn’t a part of the four-man team interviewing potential head coaches. Farmer also becomes the de facto head of football operations, since Banner won’t be replaced. In the most incredible news of the day, it was announced Farmer had been signed to a four-year contract. If you believe Farmer will be the Browns’ GM for four years, you’ll also believe Haslam’s going to name the downtown stadium after Art Modell.

So let me explain this story the best I can. When Haslam was confirmed as owner in midseason 2012, he came from Pittsburgh, where the most valuable lesson he learned in his time as a Steeler majority owner was continuity. I chided him about that Tuesday in light of the revolving door in his own building, and he said, “You’re right. You’re right. That’s fair. I do know from previous experience how important continuity is. Right now, we have to make this change and suffer the pain.”

Haslam was paired with former Eagles president Banner, who wore out his welcome in Philadelphia after a long tenure with owner Jeffrey Lurie and coach Andy Reid. The headstrong Banner was looking to run a franchise on his own, and Haslam decided to take him on as day-to-day steward. Haslam disputes the commonly held view that his partnership with Banner was an arranged marriage, because he said he interviewed him and chose him; Banner, he said, was forced on him by no one.

But it was a shotgun marriage from the start, because Banner and Haslam needed each other. Sometimes that works, and sometime it doesn’t. One did this season, famously, with GM John Schneider and coach Pete Carroll in Seattle. This one, not so much. Banner convinced Haslam to hire Lombardi, disliked by many in Cleveland from his former tenure as GM with the Browns, and Lombardi came on board from his analyst’s role with NFL Network. Immediately Lombardi was a misfit. Except for special, one-off occasions, Lombardi was prevented from talking to the media, extremely odd for such a high-profile job in such a football-hungry town. On draft weekend, the front office looked stupid when someone granted Grantland’s Chuck Klosterman special access to cover the Cleveland draft room, then had it rescinded at the last minute. Wrote Klosterman: “The Browns live in a state of perpetual war, endlessly convincing themselves that every scrap of information they possess is some kind of game-changing superweapon that will alter lives and transmogrify the culture. They behave like members of a corporate cult.’’

Banner spent $5 million of Haslam’s money to totally revamp the second floor of the Browns’ training facility and offices—and to try to change the club’s philosophy. The Browns’ coaching, front-office, scouting, sales, PR and broadcast departments are all in an open campus. When a big sale was made, a bell was rung, and the sales team all clapped. The club had a live radio show in a $65,000 soundproof studio in the middle of it all. Banner toured me around the place last summer and said, “It’s the energy of feeling like something’s always happening, every day.”

Then they began playing football, and nothing really changed. For the sixth straight season, the Browns lost at least 11 games. As the year went on, Banner thought coach Rob Chudzinski got promoted one time too many and was overmatched as a head coach. Word leaked at 3 p.m. on the last day of the season, during the last game, that Chudzinski could be fired after his first year, and five hours later, as the Browns returned to Cleveland from Pittsburgh, it happened. Team leader D’Qwell Jackson’s reaction: “We fired Chud? Are you kidding me?’’

Another coaching search. Three guys they liked—coordinators Josh McDaniels, Adam Gase and Dan Quinn—all pulled out with their teams still in play. None would say the truth: The job was toxic, and they all had good coaching jobs with solid teams. Lombardi, friends with McDaniels, went hard after the Patriots offensive coordinator again when New England lost in the AFC title game, but McDaniels stayed a Patriot.

Bill Belichick and Urban Meyer were strong in recommendations for fired Tampa Bay coach Greg Schiano—Belichick called twice—and here’s where I hear there was a major rift in the organization. Banner wanted nothing to do with Schiano. Haslam was intrigued with him after the over-the-top recommendation from Belichick. The group flew to Tampa to interview Schiano, and one source said Banner was cold to Schiano, not participating much in the interview. Banner likely thought Schiano would be a disastrous hire, given all the negatives in recent Cleveland history. He was probably right, but the owner was open to it, and when the owner’s open to it, the man running football operations should at least consider it.

So now two guys even the most ardent of Browns backers barely knew a month ago—then-Buffalo defensive coordinator Mike Pettine and Farmer—constitute the Cleveland football braintrust. For now, Farmer is in charge of cutting the roster and handing Pettine the final 53-man team. Pettine will be in charge of all game-day personnel decisions and deployment. For two guys who have never worked together, that bears watching.

Farmer is well-liked and respected as a personnel man. Until joining the Browns last year, he had worked in Kansas City as Scott Pioli’s assistant. He turned down Miami’s GM job recently, reportedly because he was offered only a two-year contract. Asked Tuesday about Miami at the news conference, Farmer went third-person, saying the Miami job “wasn’t right for Ray Farmer.” But Farmer’s friends say he’s not an ego guy.

Farmer earned Haslam’s respect with a strong interview in Cleveland after the Chiefs staff got blown up. “Smart, no ego, relates well to players,’’ said Haslam. Farmer got Haslam’s ear by standing with him at practice during the season and explaining personnel and scouting—and then by asking his counsel when he was considering taking the Miami GM job last month. The more Haslam thought about Farmer, the more he thought he was a valuable man he didn’t want to lose. Haslam started seriously considering making the changes last week.

A Browns free-agency meeting scheduled for 9 a.m. Tuesday was abruptly cancelled. It was Tuesday morning that Haslam delivered the news, which I’m told blew away both Banner and Lombardi. The owner told the staff in a 10 a.m. meeting, then told a news conference in the afternoon he was finished with major changes. After that, he and his staff—led by Farmer and Pettine, with club president Alec Scheiner and general counsel Sashi Brown—had their first organizational meeting, a session of about two hours.

“Ray was terrific in the meeting,’’ Haslam said. “He was as strong an individual as anyone in the room this afternoon.”

He’d better be. Haslam and Farmer now have to worry about calming the roiling waters around the team. It’s like there’s a moat around the Browns’ training center in suburban Berea, and alligators are swimming in it. In the past six weeks, the team has fired the entire coaching staff and the two biggest football people running the show. The coach is new, the coordinators are new, the offense (with a bruised Kyle Shanahan coming off an ugly year in Washington) is new. The Browns don’t have a quarterback of the future. They do have three draft picks in the top 35—Nos. 4, 26 and 35—with the prospect of trading two of those choices (or No. 4 plus next year’s first-rounder) to obtain the quarterback of their dreams. Unless, of course, that man is Texas A&M’s Johnny Manziel, coveted by Cleveland, and he goes to a team unwilling to trade down before the Browns have a chance to pick him.

Surprisingly, because of the local enmity for Banner and Lombardi, Haslam didn’t seem to be getting roasted Tuesday night in Cleveland, and I think the fans are probably right: Haslam reached the point where he thought Banner and Lombardi were impediments to success. When that happens, they’ve got to go.

But the other side, obviously, is how many times can you pull the cleaning-house rabbit out of the hat? Browns fans are numb to the mayhem by now. It’s hard to imagine why the fans would have hope for a team in perpetual transition, but it’s Cleveland, and it’s football, and there are three draft picks in the top 35 to fantasize over. Farmer, as a rookie GM, has a huge draft on his hands in just three months.

Assuming Farmer is still the general manager in three months.

Peter King, MMQB

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Most people seem thrilled about this, but I don't know.

Hopefully, it works out.

This is no teardown. This was planned by Haslam. Haslam has balls bigger than the Grand Canyon. No wonder he's sitting on a Gold Mine in Pilot.

This is PERFECT.

He saw what was happening and did something about it. In a HUGE way. You go Jimmy!

This right here is going to help make this a smooth transition.

From PFT:

The Browns might not be hiring a new CEO, but they are bringing in some help for first-time General Manager Ray Farmer.

According to Adam Schefter of ESPN, the Browns are bringing in former Chiefs personnel man Bill Kuharich.

Kuharich was Farmer’s boss with the Chiefs.

Prior to ascending to vice president of player personnel with the Chiefs during a 10-year stay there, he was G.M. of the Saints, where he worked for 14 seasons.

Adding a personnel man with his experience will be a big help for Farmer, as he tries to rebuild the Browns.

Our Scouts are all still here and pending a possible tweak or 2 in the future, they will stay here with Farmer. Farmer's been here throughout this year. This is EXACTLY why he refused the Fins GM job and stayed here.

This is as Black and White as it can get. Haslam saw what was going on and said "Enough of this Consensus BS".

Job well done Haslam.

I AM STOKED for this draft and FA period now.

Gordon WILL NOT be traded and our future QB is on his way in May!!! YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!

Peter King added to the story that appears above....

Why The Browns Blew Up The Franchise … Again

By
Peter King

During a search for a new head coach, owner Jimmy Haslam lost faith in the leadership of CEO Joe Banner and GM Mike Lombardi, so he fired them. Now the Browns—losers of at least 11 games for six straight seasons—start all over

The Cleveland Browns interviewed Ken Whisenhunt for their head-coaching job in each of the past two Januaries, first after he was fired as Arizona’s head coach, and last month when he was employed as San Diego’s offensive coordinator. When Whisenhunt entered the room this year for the interview, he was one of the hottest commodities on the head-coaching market, and the Browns were very interested in him.

Whisenhunt said, “Why didn’t you guys hire me last year?’’

The Browns’ CEO who was in both interviews, Joe Banner, told Whisenhunt he didn’t think the staff he was putting together at the time was “a championship coaching staff.”

Whisenhunt, one NFL source said, was peeved that a man who had never coached and who’d been involved in football mainly on the business side would sit in judgment of his potential coaches.

“Who are you to tell me what makes up a championship coaching staff?” Whisenhunt said, with an edge in his voice.

That scene, another source told The MMQB, illustrated a big reason why owner Jimmy Haslam made the bombshell announcement he made Tuesday, firing Banner and general manager Mike Lombardi after their first full seasons on the job. Haslam became dubious about Banner’s football acumen and during the coach-search process following the firing of rookie coach Rob Chudzinski saw what a potential roadblock to success Banner would be. Add in Banner’s brusque and sometimes confrontational style that rubbed many around the NFL the wrong way, and you’ve got a good read on why Haslam stunned the NFL with the late-morning announcement.

As Haslam rushed to a meeting Tuesday evening, he wouldn’t be specific on the Whisenhunt story. About Banner, Haslam said “there was no one crowning blow’’ that made him dismiss the man he picked to run the organization 16 months ago. Haslam also knows he will be ridiculed—deservedly so—for looking like George Steinbrenner in his prime for the way he’s whacked coaches and front-office staff seemingly willy-nilly since he took over as owner on Oct. 16, 2012. Under Haslam, who came in preaching patient team-building, the Browns have fired two coaches (Pat Shurmur, Chudzinski), two general manages (Tom Heckert, Lombardi), a CEO (Banner) and a president (Mike Holmgren). They fired Chudzinski when he got off the team bus from Pittsburgh after the last game of the 2013 season. They have started four quarterbacks, and seem prepared to move heaven and earth to draft a new quarterback savior in the first round of the May 8 draft.

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Gordon WILL NOT be traded and our future QB is on his way in May!!! YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!

Whoa, easy there.

I have soured on Manziel after watching the film, the kid is not a Top 5 talent...he is a poor man's RG3 at best case scenario and...well at worst case scenario...lets just not go there with Johnny Football.

The only 2 QB worth a Top 5 selection is Bridgewater and Bortles, and both of those guys will be gone before we pick....Houston needs a QB, they won't trade, and Jacksonville is not trading either because they are in the same boat as us.

St. Louis will stay put because either A: they move Bradfford, or B: they want Clowney...in either scenario is very unlikely the Rams are going to budge....they are really are our only trading partner and it would costs probably two firsts and two seconds just to get them to even consider losing out on Clowney (who will be a Pro Bowl DE), or Bradfford's replacement.

this is another year of us being on the outside looking in...if this org is dumb enough to draft Manziel....oh boy.....the Steelers,. Ravens, and Bengals will chew that kid up like a piece of bubble gum and spit him out....Manziel has terrible pocket presence, a barely average arm, most of the runs and nonsense he has done at A&M running around behind the LOS would be sacks for losses in the NFL.

However, with our luck we take Manziel and it goes down in another long list of Cleveland Busts we trash down the drain in 2-3 years....we would be better off taking OL or the Top corner on the board if neither Bortles or Bridgewater are available and take our chances later in the draft...Manziel is a lot of hype...think Brady Quinn...if we can't get Bortles or Bridgewater, we would be better off waiting until next year for a QB or trying to trade for another teams young up and comer vs reaching on a guy like Manziel that will just set us back even more.

Maybe the Browns could work out a deal for Bradfford...rumors are the Rams would be interested in moving him if the right offer came along...I would take Bradford in a heart beat.

Why would St Louis lose Clowney if they trade with us?

If Houston and JVille are taking QB's and we take a QB woildnt that leave Clowney?

I think Bortles ( my choice) will be there at 4 and so will Bridgewater or JM.

Regardless, I do not want to trade up anyway, if JM is availabe at 4 and we do not deem him a worthy choice, I bet others would ( ie minnesota) and pay us for it.

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Whisenhunt said, “Why didn’t you guys hire me last year?’’

The Browns’ CEO who was in both interviews, Joe Banner, told Whisenhunt he didn’t think the staff he was putting together at the time was “a championship coaching staff.”

Rich

Finally someone called them out on their stupid "blue chio/championship" rhetoric...and how stupid is the answer anyway. Here you are, sitting with a guy you didn't hire a year ago, but want him now and instead of showing some humility, regretting not hiring him back then, you diss him (the SB coach) again with your braindead empty rhetoric and pretty much want to tell him what other coaches he should hire. That's stupid on any level I can think of. Looks like Whisenhunt only used the Browns interview to up his price/urge someone else to hire him and flip them a well deserved bird in the process. Well played, lol...and if it also helped getting rid of the clowns by opening Haslam's eyes: thanks coach!

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Whisenhunt said, “Why didn’t you guys hire me last year?’’

The Browns’ CEO who was in both interviews, Joe Banner, told Whisenhunt he didn’t think the staff he was putting together at the time was “a championship coaching staff.”

Whisenhunt, one NFL source said, was peeved that a man who had never coached and who’d been involved in football mainly on the business side would sit in judgment of his potential coaches.

“Who are you to tell me what makes up a championship coaching staff?” Whisenhunt said, with an edge in his voice.

WOW...I would have loved to be in on the interview with Whisenhunt and hear him challenge Banner.

I can imagine how embarrassed Haslam was at that moment...but, if that is what it took to finally convince Haslam that Banner had to go, I'm glad it happened.

Haslam was a fool for hiring Banner to run the football side of the Browns...it was Haslam's first and worst mistake as an new NFL owner.

Haslam is going to be criticized by many who don't have a clue as to why this had to be done if the franchise is going to begin building a winner in Cleveland.

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. Looks like Whisenhunt only used the Browns interview to up his price/urge someone else to hire him and flip them a well deserved bird in the process. Well played, lol...and if it also helped getting rid of the clowns: thanks coach!

it's a win / win.

I feel better about this today than i did yesterday.

Maybe it's just the fan in me and the wanna suceede so bad... but I am stoked

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Just listened to Farmer's PC.

So, we are back to the GM choosing the 53 man roster. Great.

Yeah, it was much better with Banner doing it....

You are the second person to say that. I don't want to make a big deal about this, but when people read the same thing multiple times, they tend to believe it.

Banner was not responsible for choosing the final 53 man roster.

ddbub: I respect the heck out of you, but I think you are wrong for saying that is the proper set-up and here is why:

When a GM has total control of choosing the roster, he picks his guys. Guys who were already here, lower round picks, and street free agents have less of a chance than they would if the coach was in charge of the roster.

GMs are paid to acquire talent. If the GMs high draft picks, expensive free agents, and guys who came in a flashy trade are being outproduced by a no name, then it appears you are not a very good talent evaluator. And owners are not real patient w/guys who don't evaluate talent well. And our owner..........LOL.........well, his track record speaks for itself.

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Haslam is going to be criticized by many who don't have a clue as to why this had to be done if the franchise is going to begin building a winner in Cleveland.

Plus all the Lombardi friends in the media that will have his back and tell us what a football genius he is... after all look at all the teams that tried to hire him over the past 7 - 10 years to help them run their organizations.

Then when he is in front of the camera again, he willl bash everything cleveland, just like he did last time he left here.

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Banner was not responsible for choosing the final 53 man roster.

so do you think Chud was in charge of seting the 53 man roster or Lombardi or was iit the "consensus" they oftimes alluded too?

Somewhere in the world, Jim Nantz is pissed.

That is a very interesting article by King.

If he is accurate, wonder how much job security Pettine has considering Schiano is still out there?

Some were questioning why I said this was another knee jerk move. Well, take a look at the article and read the part about Haslam started considering making these changes last week.

Oh well.............it's done now. One can only hope for the best. I do have to say that I am less confident than I was a couple of days ago, but what I think doesn't matter. Haslam paid the money to buy the team and he can do w/it what he wants.

I think the consensus thing was more in regards to evaluating talent, whether it be guys currently on their roster, free agents, or guys in the draft. I think they all discussed all of those things.

It's pretty evident that Banner had final say on making moves, such as trades and the like and that Chud had final say over who is cut and who plays. I think part of the problem between the FO and Chud was that Banner/Lombardi didn't really agree w/how Chud was keeping/cutting and who played and who sat.

I am not saying they were right. I'm not saying they were wrong.

What I am saying is that I think the GM should acquire the players w/input from the coaching staff.

I think the coaching staff should choose who is on the roster w/some input from the GM and the coaching staff should have total control over who plays.

We saw first hand what could happen if the GM has total control over the roster when Phil Savage was here. It wasn't pretty.

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Whisenhunt said, “Why didn’t you guys hire me last year?’’

The Browns’ CEO who was in both interviews, Joe Banner, told Whisenhunt he didn’t think the staff he was putting together at the time was “a championship coaching staff.”

Whisenhunt, one NFL source said, was peeved that a man who had never coached and who’d been involved in football mainly on the business side would sit in judgment of his potential coaches.

“Who are you to tell me what makes up a championship coaching staff?” Whisenhunt said, with an edge in his voice.

WOW...I would have loved to be in on the interview with Whisenhunt and hear him challenge Banner.

I can imagine how embarrassed Haslam was at that moment...but, if that is what it took to finally convince Haslam that Banner had to go, I'm glad it happened.

Haslam was a fool for hiring Banner to run the football side of the Browns...it was Haslam's first and worst mistake as an new NFL owner.

Haslam is going to be criticized by many who don't have a clue as to why this had to be done if the franchise is going to begin building a winner in Cleveland.

When I first heard that Whisenhunt was "re-interviewing" I wondered "WHY"?

After reading that I now know why, and imo it wasn't to be the HC of The Cleveland Browns.

Classic.

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cal...many do not know of Banner's history in Philly. I could see the train wreck coming and it was about to get much worse, had Banner and Lombardi been allowed to run the upcoming draft.

I like the guy we now have...he comes from a football background, as a players and his experience in management is on the football side. I did hear something about a management guy from KC coming into to work under Farmer...that should help.

Mac, a lot of us knew. You aren't the only one that felt that way about Banner when hired. Lots of us were uncomfortable with him and didn't think he had a clear history of making player decisions. Meaning who to draft, who to retain etc,.

He was a money guy and a business guy in Philly. And while that's important, it's not what you want in a Football Executive.

But I have to admit, some of the moves they made since the beginning of camp were decent. In fact I was warming to them until the firing of Chud, they I started questioning everything.. The deal for TRich looks to be the deal of the century. Bringing in Hoyer,, wow, who knew he'd be decent in the little we saw him.'

Maybe the biggest move was a NON move.. They didn't trade Gordon.

But this latest debacle with Chud (which of course might have been haslam for all we know) just was the tipping point for me.

I'm shocked, surprised and happy that Haslam made these moves yesterday.. I wasn't expecting that to happen