DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum FO changes. Part 2

From Vers:

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What I am saying is that I think the GM should acquire the players w/input from the coaching staff.

I think the coaching staff should choose who is on the roster w/some input from the GM and the coaching staff should have total control over who plays.

We saw first hand what could happen if the GM has total control over the roster when Phil Savage was here. It wasn't pretty.

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So, you're basically saying the "consensus" thing didn't work, since they were not happy with the decisions the HC THEY hired made. It was a dis-sensus from day one....and to me it was pretty obvious that LomBanner had a hand in roster decisions as NO HC wants to drag around 10 or so players on the 53 who should be developed on the PS instead. That was a dead giveaway for me that those decisions worked both ways. Then there's the reported FB "fight", with Chud wanting a REAL FB and the FO keeping Obi and the 3 backup/developmental H-Backs in Smith, Milton and Gray.

It can work and fail both ways with the 53 decision. Simply depends on how good the guys are on their job. I prefer the GM to make the 53, simply because he is the no1 talent evaluator, NOT the coach. You say the downside of this is a GM "forcing" his guys on the coach? Well, we've seen the opposite too with your buddy Mangini, who kept aging ST guy after another leaving talentless roster with no depth and developmental talent. So, if you let a coach decide, those tend to do what's best for them short term and they tend to be overly loyal to guys they start to like and relate to on a daily basis. They can be loyal to a fault too. I actually the risk on the HC side is more bigger because of the lack of distance....overall, there's up and downside to both structures. That's reality.

Speaking of buddies....here's what your latest Napoleon mancrush said a year ago:

"We are not asking for a free pass this year or any year. They (fans) should expect the team to be better. They should expect it to be obvious that things are different. I'm happy being held to that standard, and I'm happy having everybody held to that standard." - Joe Banner

Farmer said in his interview that while Jimmy told him he would have control over the 53, that he would work closely with the coaches and scouts taking their input and factoring in his own assessment before making any decisions. It sounded to me like the coaches and scouts would have plenty of input, and more importantly, their input would carry actual weight. I get the impression Farmer is more interested in getting it right than in being right.

That'd be a good start, but talk is cheap. He has no experience as a College scout and his Pro Personnel track record with the Chiefs was pretty bad, so my hopes aren't exactly sky high when it comes to competency, as he's basically another apprentice running the show now. But hopefully, he's as humble as he sounds and listens to the guys around him. We will see, but he has a tough road ahead of him with some tough decisions to make in the upcoming months. He's been thrown into the water and it's sink or swim from the get go for him. We will find out about him pretty soon...

Are you incapable of ever making a post to me w/out the BS insults?

I am not freaking out that Banner and Lombardi have been fired. I never acted like they were great. I was willing to give them a chance. They're gone.

And I never bring up Mangini. Why do you?

We all have our opinions on how the the hierarchy should work. I've stated mine. You've stated yours.

General reply,

ihav eno idea how the GM / HC should work then.

It seems to me that the HC should say for example,

1) What Posaition is most needed ... ( Say QB )

2) I need a QB with this ( or as close as possible) skill set to fit my offesnive scheme ( say WCO )

3) The GM needs to find that player or hopefully a list of players that has the skills needed.

4) GM / HC / Cap guys sit down and list pros / cons on each... costs, age, skills, etc and each candidate is afforded a grade on that list.

5) GM works from top grade down to obtain the talent.

JMHO

Yes we will. Wasn't he the assistant GM in KC, not just in charge of pro personnel? In any case, today I feel much better about our chances going into free agency and the draft with Farmer, Pettine, Shanahan and the scouts evaluating than I did yesterday knowing the major decisions would fall to Banner and Lombardi. While there is plenty of inexperience on the table, overall and in the long run I firmly believe we're in better hands.

Marla Ridenour: Jimmy Haslam’s bold firings show clarity, not Browns’ dysfunction


By Marla Ridenour
Beacon Journal sports columnist

BEREA: At first glance, owner Jimmy Haslam’s continually quick trigger finger looks as out­rageous as anything that’s been done with the Browns since the secret handshake on the tarmac in Baltimore.
But the Browns owner’s shocking move to dismiss CEO Joe Banner and General Manager Mike Lombardi and promote Ray Farmer to Lombardi’s post Tuesday was actually the first step on the road back to respectability.
It is hard to believe Haslam was so bold, refusing to let the team muddle through the most crucial offseason in franchise history with the wrong organizational structure and the wrong men in charge of personnel decisions. It was looking like it would take another 11 months of missteps, which would have set the Browns back five more years, considering their 10 draft picks and abundant salary cap space and crucial choices to be made in free agency.
It is also hard to believe Haslam realized relatively quickly he didn’t mesh with Banner or had given him too much power. Instead of keeping Banner on the business side, Haslam retained President Alec Scheiner and increased his responsibilities, which now might include dealing with the city of Cleveland on stadium issues and the upcoming sin-tax vote. Banner will stay on in a transition role for no more than two months.
The most believable part of it all was the promotion of Farmer, which Haslam seemed to hint was in the works at coach Mike Pettine’s introductory news conference Jan. 23. Haslam said then he had spent an hour talking at lunch with Farmer, who took himself out of the running for the Miami Dolphins general manager job the same day. Farmer said Haslam made him no guarantee, but both Haslam and Banner touted Farmer’s abilities after Pettine spoke.
Still under federal investigation for rebate fraud by his Pilot Flying J truck stop company, Haslam is staking the Browns’ future on two up-and-coming stars — Farmer, 39, and Scheiner, 43 — and Pettine, 47, an impressive but unproven rookie coach and former Buffalo Bills defensive coordinator.
Farmer becomes the seventh African-American general manager in the NFL, the most in league history, and the first with the Browns.
“I definitely am very proud and happy for this day,” Farmer said of the significance of his hiring for minorities. “As I get older, my mom and dad are dear to me and I wanted them to see this moment in my life. I’m extremely excited for them to witness their son achieve this milestone that I kind of set forth for myself.”
Haslam left open the position of CEO, which could eventually be filled by his close friend from the University of Tennessee, Peyton Manning. The Denver Broncos quarterback turns 38 next month, but is expected to be heavily pursued as a network television analyst when he retires. If that lucrative and relatively easy job doesn’t appeal to him, it has long been speculated that Manning could elect to follow in the footsteps of John Elway, the Broncos’ executive vice president of football operations.
The Browns took a beating nationally, but Haslam’s gutsy “streamlining” was cheered locally. Haslam could organize a pep rally for this weekend and sell out FirstEnergy Stadium in a matter of hours.
It does seem totally backward to hire the coach before the GM, especially since Farmer did not travel during the interview process and was mainly charged with researching Pettine’s credentials. But Farmer and Pettine seem to have the people skills to make their relationship work.
It looks bad for Haslam to have fired two regimes — coach Pat Shurmur, General Manager Tom Heckert and President Mike Holmgren, then first-year coach Rob Chud­zinski, Banner and Lombardi — in his 16 months in charge. That’s a lot of scalps, fueling the perception that Haslam has no clue what he’s doing. But the first three were hires of now-minority owner Randy Lerner, who might still be paying them. With the latter three, Haslam should be lauded for trying to make things right, even though Chud­zinski deserved more time.
Haslam might have been reacting to Banner’s and Lombardi’s failure to deliver a coach like Bill O’Brien (hired by the Houston Texans) or Josh McDaniels (who remained offensive coordinator of the New England Patriots) or after a falling out with Banner over Seattle Sea­hawks defensive coordinator Dan Quinn, who Banner wanted to interview a second time after the Super Bowl. Haslam continued to lash out at the media for criticism over the length of the 25-day coaching search and the fact that at least four candidates, with Wisconsin’s Gary Andersen added to that list Tuesday, took their names out of the running. But something during that process could have led to the duo’s ouster, especially with the charge of the organization’s “radioactivity” coming from the league’s own network.
Now some of the radio­activity is gone, although the black cloud of Haslam’s possible indictment still looms.
“I will accept comments and criticism about change and I’ll accept responsibility for some of the changes that have been made,” Haslam said. “I underestimated this. It’s a learning curve to be an NFL owner. If you want to look at me as a work in progress, that’s fair to say. I will tell you this: These are the last of the major changes we’re going to make in the organization. We’ll continue to tinker to find ways to improve it and make it better.”
What Haslam did Tuesday did not smack of dysfunction. While it was a power coup, with Haslam grabbing the reins from Banner, it also was a brilliant flash of clarity that could get the Browns back on track.

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As I was writing this the thread was locked and this continuing thread was started. So I never saw your posts in this new thread. Now that I have I think we are saying the same thing about the structure. Maybe I'm a bit Pollyanna in hoping the GM and HC really work together for the best of the team as Pettine wants it to be but we shall see...

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ddbub: I respect the heck out of you, but I think you are wrong for saying that is the proper set-up and here is why:

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Yeah, I stand corrected. Posting too fast without thinking. I guess I'm just so relieved in knowing who the GM is as opposed to the muddy, "consensus" version of which I could never really establish who was in charge of what and led many to believe Banner was in charge of the roster by his own proclamation that he held "final say" on everything.

I've been to family picnics and have seen a bowl containing a pot luck side dish and being wary of even trying it. I never knew exactly what the ingredients were but it somehow didn't look right. At the end of the day that bowl sat nearly full as very few servings were spooned out, probably the cook who brought it and her husband. That told me I wasn't the only one who didn't like the look of it.

Our now former FO was like that to me.

I had no idea what the ingredients were or what amount of each contributed to the overall flavor and final result of the "consensus". It was all murky to me like that crap on the picnic table.

Nonetheless, I tried to buy in. There were things about Banner that I did like. He is a shrewd business man. A wheeler-dealer with experience in getting the best of a deal. I liked the things he said in his interviews and pressers until that last one when they fired Chud. At that one he sounded like he was grasping at straws to defend the firing. But before that, in many ways, I warmed up to Banner. After all, I had no choice. It was either that or be miserable with my team.

I can actually handle the losing better than I could handle the thought that the FO was a murky mess of which I could not define.

I feel better. That was my first post in this thread. No elaboration, just "I feel better". And I do.

At least now I know who everyone is. I know the owner, the president, the GM and the coach. Regardless of the executive structure the titles and the people who hold them is clear. It's like the whole FO has had the mud washed off of it.

Regarding charge of the 53 man roster, I thought most GM's want that distinction. I know Heckert did and that is a small part of why he was let go. I'm not sure if you can have the HC be in charge of the roster unless he's an experienced HC with the ability to juggle both being in charge of the team and in charge of the roster. We hired a rookie HC. I'm ok with the HC. But no one was going to give Pettine the GM job too.

So Farmer is in charge of the 53 man roster and Pettine is in charge of the team. If we continue to keep that separation while both men work together on what the team needs, (i.e. positions the HC wants upgraded), then it is fine with me. That's much better than having the "consensus" meddling in the HC's responsibilities which has been reported about the previous FO to the detriment of the team and finally the firing of the HC.

I have no link to back up my thought that a large part contributing to the firing of Chud was that he refused to be strung up like a puppet controlled by the "consensus".



So, other than having a proven, experienced HC with the credentials to be able to hold the position of HC/GM I'm fine for now with the structure so long as the GM and HC truly work together.

If we have a situation of backstabbing as we had with Savage and RAC with Savage acquiring players in an attempt to build the kind of team he wants instead of working with the HC to build the kind of team the HC wants then it should all work out. I really think Savage was preparing for his HC hire. I hope Farmer is not of the same ilk.

Long Peter King article in SI. So basically, Banner was really rubbing guys we were interviewing for head coach the wrong way.

LINK

Here's a taste . . .

The Cleveland Browns interviewed Ken Whisenhunt for their head-coaching job in each of the past two Januaries, first after he was fired as Arizona’s head coach, and last month when he was employed as San Diego’s offensive coordinator. When Whisenhunt entered the room this year for the interview, he was one of the hottest commodities on the head-coaching market, and the Browns were very interested in him.

Whisenhunt said, “Why didn’t you guys hire me last year?’’

The Browns’ CEO who was in both interviews, Joe Banner, told Whisenhunt he didn’t think the staff he was putting together at the time was “a championship coaching staff.”

Whisenhunt, one NFL source said, was peeved that a man who had never coached and who’d been involved in football mainly on the business side would sit in judgment of his potential coaches.

“Who are you to tell me what makes up a championship coaching staff?” Whisenhunt said, with an edge in his voice

Overall, I like how this structure is set up. I didn't understand having an owner (absentee) then a CEO who was a non-football guy making football decisions, a president that handled the business admin, a GM in name only (or so it appeared) an Asst GM that is a Football guy and then a coach and his staff.

This is simple

Owner with the President, GM and Coach all reporting directly to him

Makes sense to me and that's after putting all the personalities aside for a second, the structure just makes sense as long as the Owner is going to be around and it appears that he is,.

J/C
I seem to recall a lot of rumors floating around at one time on the boards that people might have been contacting Chud regarding the HC job with the Browns. Reading through the thread, it made me wonder if some of that was true and was a reason that people declined interviews or removed themselves from consideration. The Whisenhunt quote kind of adds a little more weight to that.

If someone contacted Chud and he said something like "You don't want to work for that guy." It seems logical.

I wonder, after reading about the possible "Manning Meeting", if Gase removed his name because Peyton was in his ear and said something similar.

In any event, I was surprised and a little giddy about the news yesterday.

Hopefully, Haslem got it right this time around.....

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I have no link to back up my thought that a large part contributing to the firing of Chud was that he refused to be strung up like a puppet controlled by the "consensus".

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Chud was used as a sort of scapegoat for the teams poor record in 2013.
...it had to be someone's fault, so the front office blamed Chud.

I believe Haslam was convinced by Banner and Lombardi that either Josh McDanials or Adam Gase could be hired to replace Chud. But, during the search process, once again, just like last years search for a HC, the top prospects turned down the Browns HC job.

Once again, Haslam was made to look foolish for #1-firing Chud...and #2-not being able to land their target and being forced into an exhausting search that had to be a nightmare for Haslam.

Somewhere near the middle of the search process the words "radioactive" and "toxic" were used to describe why candidates were refusing to take the job as HC of the Browns.

It's not a stretch to believe Haslam began asking himself or others, why the Browns were being described as toxic or radioactive? Haslam either admitted to himself or some close friends, maybe Peyton Manning, gave it to Haslam straight...that Banner and Lombardi were casting a negative shadow over Haslam's franchise that was so bad that coaching candidates refused to work with them.

At some point between firing Chud and yesterday, the light bulb finally came on in Jimmy Haslam's head...he finally figured out that he had made a mistake of historic proportion, hiring Joe Banner to run the football side of the Browns.

jc

Those around NFL say Ray Farmer is 'ready to spread his wings' as Cleveland Browns general manager

By Tom Reed, Northeast Ohio Media Group
February 11, 2014 at 8:50 PM

BEREA, Ohio – A decade ago, Les Snead had the opportunity to hire Ray Farmer as a scout for the Atlanta Falcons.

On a day the Browns promoted Farmer to general manager, Snead reflected on the choice he made in 2002.

“Hiring Ray is one of the easiest and best decisions I've ever made,” said Snead, who’s now general manager of the St. Louis Rams.

Browns owner Jimmy Haslam hopes he can make a similar statement in years to come. As part of the franchise’s latest reset, the Browns named Farmer its top football decision-maker Tuesday while announcing the departure of CEO Joe Banner and GM Michael Lombardi.

Many are focused on the continuing dysfunction in Berea and an owner who cleans house more than Molly Maid. But in a league-wide sampling of opinions the decision to promote Farmer is being greeted with mostly favorable reviews.

The 39 year old, who becomes the NFL’s second-youngest GM, has taken the proper steps in climbing the ladder from ex-player to scout to pro personnel director and assistant general manager.

“Ray is a highly-regarded guy around the league,” said former Washington and Houston GM Charley Casserly, now an NFL Network analyst. “Ray Farmer was going to be a general manager within the next 12 months somewhere and that probably played into Cleveland’s decision.

“He’s a bright guy and he’s well organized and I know people around the league who are big fans of his.”

One current NFL executive, talking on conditions of anonymity because he’s not authorized to speak for his franchise, was more direct.

“Ray is absolutely ready for this,” the executive said. “You can say, ‘Well, he’s never run a draft before,’ but everyone has to do it for the first time, right? It’s not like he hasn’t been in war rooms in years past. He was in there last year with Cleveland and was in there in years past with Kansas City.

“By promoting him, the Browns also are giving themselves some continuity. He is familiar with the scouts, he’s done his own scouting and knows how to evaluate talent.”

From a draft standpoint, Cassserly does not believe Farmer has been handicapped by Browns' decision to make the change now rather than after the season. Farmer would have spent weeks occupied by a coaching search, he said. The fact the draft (May 8-10) is two weeks later also affords him more time.

Casserly does wonder about Farmer’s comfort level with a scouting staff he did not hire. The Browns are reportedly adding front-office help in Bill Kuharich, a former Chiefs and New Orleans Saints executive who worked with Farmer in Kansas City. There’s also the matter of Farmer co-existing with new coach Mike Pettine, a man he did not hire.

Snead considers Farmer an excellent communicator, an executive who can be tough without forcing his agenda on someone.

“He is a people person who genuinely wants to build a united team on the field and inside the building," Snead said. “He knows this requires asking inquisitive, but often hard, questions as well as listening to the answers to those questions.”

ESPN analyst Brian Dawkins, a former Farmer teammate, echoed Snead’s sentiments.

“Ray is not pig-headed,” he said. “He’s going to have a strong opinion, but he’s going to let the people around him do their jobs.”

Dawkins and Farmer have known each other since their days of playing in ACC for Clemson and Duke, respectively. What impresses the former Pro Bowl defensive back is how quickly Farmer processes information and puts it to use.

Some believe the Browns are placing Farmer in a difficult spot given the number of picks (10), the importance of the draft and the amount of time he has to prepare for it. Dawkins isn’t concerned about his friend’s readiness.

“I don’t think the moment is too big for him,” Dawkins said. “I know people have questions about him, but nobody works harder at what he does. He is a football nerd like he says. He’s put in the work and now he’s ready to spread his wings.”

Vers, I see what you are saying, but Farmer made it more than clear that Pettine would have significant input, along with the other coaches on what and who they need. I can't understand why you want to infer that he will do it all alone, when he stated specifically when asked that he would work with Pettine to see what he needs and who fits for what he needs.

I can't see how you don't see what a bad set up we had with Banner trumping everybody and him and Lombardi disagreeing, as reported in different articles, on personnel and coaching matters.

Most teams run on the structure we now have. You are smart enough to know that. I can't look at this as a reboot, as Farmer has been here, and was part of the coaching search, just not the interview process. The scouts are intact, and the only thing missing is the drama caused by Banner and Lombardi.

It is becoming clear to me that Banner is not liked around the NFL. He did not possess the acumen to run football operations, and clearly used Lombardi as a lackey. It is also very obvious that Chud's staff did not have say so on the roster. I don't know how anybody could conclude that they did. Norv's comments after he left opened my eyes. It was clear that Banner was trying to control everything, and that doesn't work.

GMs ARE the guys who control the roster, except in cases like Belicheck and a few others who control everything. I don't see Farmer being a guy who, not in your exact words, but forces his players on a coach. When a FO guy starts to demand players play, as Banner did apparently, that is overstepping his bounds.

GMs provide the players the coach needs, and coaches decide who plays. That is how it works best, and I believe that is what we will get. Will we be successful? Who knows. But most teams work this way, and I have to believe removing the negative aspects of the FO is a move in the right direction.

The continuity in the FO has changed some, but it also has been set up to be more efficient. I understand your thoughts, but I take it as you thinking Farmer is going to go it alone, and I don't see that.

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Mike Freeman: Browns spoke with Bill Parcells about running the team before promoting Ray Farmer to GM. ‪#‎CLE‬

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*EDIT TO INCLUDE LINK*

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/19575...-they-want-more

Well, we have Banner to thank for not hiring Schiano...

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index....s_organiza.html

The Cleveland Browns' front office mess already had some local ties -- ex-Eagles president Joe Banner got fired, along with New Jersey native Michael Lombardi -- but there's another wrinkle to the story that involves Greg Schiano.

The ex-Rutgers head coach, who was fired by the Buccaneers in December, interviewed with the Browns but didn't end up with the job.

MMQB's Peter King shed light on why that was the case: Patriots coach and Schiano pal Bill Belichick recommended Schiano (so strongly that he called twice) as did Ohio State's Urban Meyer. That piqued Browns owner Jimmy Haslam's interest...but not Banner's, as King wrote:

"Here's where I hear there was a major rift in the organization. Banner wanted nothing to do with Schiano. Haslam was intrigued with him after the over-the-top recommendation from Belichick. The group flew to Tampa to interview Schiano, and one source said Banner was cold to Schiano, not participating much in the interview. Banner likely thought Schiano would be a disastrous hire, given all the negatives in recent Cleveland history. He was probably right, but the owner was open to it, and when the owner's open to it, the man running football operations should at least consider it."
Banner apparently didn't and now, like Schiano, he's out of a job.

it only says he was open to the possibility, not that he was even the favorite for the job

See, there was hope for the guy (Banner)!

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It's not a stretch to believe Haslam began asking himself or others, why the Browns were being described as toxic or radioactive? Haslam either admitted to himself or some close friends, maybe Peyton Manning, gave it to Haslam straight...that Banner and Lombardi were casting a negative shadow over Haslam's franchise that was so bad that coaching candidates refused to work with them.

At some point between firing Chud and yesterday, the light bulb finally came on in Jimmy Haslam's head...he finally figured out that he had made a mistake of historic proportion, hiring Joe Banner to run the football side of the Browns.

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I don't think that's a stretch at all, just wonder why he didn't fire the GM first then and let the new GM hire the coach... unless you are hypothesizing that during the interview process, Haslam was listening to Farmer as much or more than he was listening to Lombardi/Banner.. which is possible.

Finally....There Gone...Never Liked Banner or Limbardi.

We have a owner who's not afraid to get rid of dead weight,

I dont have a problem replacing people, I'd much rather replace a problem now rather than wait 2-3 years, hoping they get better or finally get it right, one can tell, Consistancy starts with the right people in place, we would never get consistancy in our Franchise with Banner & Limbardi here, to much back stabbing & wanting to be the big man instead of one of the players.

Ray Famer...Is the real deal, Soooo glad to have him, best hire of the year.

I feel much better about our future....Thanks Jimmy

Solid post and I understand your logic. E.Ryze19, I liked the logic of your post, too.

I will give these guys time to prove themselves. I won't stomp my feet. I won't say "he lied to me." LOL

I do have to say that I am now more concerned than before. A few thoughts:

--Banner got bashed for being arrogant, but I like having smart guys in charge. I think we lose something by losing his intellect.

--The guy was a cap guru. We will miss that.

--Most people on here slammed Schiano over and over. Ridiculed the FO for talking to him. Now, it comes out that Banner was opposed to this and that is what caused the rift between he and Haslam. Let's imagine if we didn't hear the specific names involved, but just heard that one guy didn't want anything to do w/Schiano and that led to problems between two of the participants. I bet that almost to a man, our posters would have sided w/not wanting anything to do w/Schiano. But, since it is Banner, most will either ignore it or excuse it away. Again.........hypocritical is the word that pops into my head.

--I respect your opinion in regards to who should control the roster, but it's been my experience that giving the GM control over the final 53 is counter productive. The coaching staff knows more than the GM about who is performing well in practices, scrimmages, games, etc. They break down way more film and are w/the players a lot more. It's not even close. But again, I respect your opinion.

--Final thought........I'm not angry, but this latest move has kind of drained me.

And I will just add this... I don't know if we are going to be any good or not but...





We must have the most bad-ass looking GM/Coach combo in the entire NFL.

Thanks, I will.

I don't think that we'll see a situation as reportedly happened last season where Chud and Norv wanted a true FB, (Like a Mike Tolbert or a Le'ron McClain) and Lombardi felt that the position was better filled by a guy like Obi. It's a relatively small item .... but both men have run their offenses with a bruiser FB. (we had Vickers when Chud was OC here in 2007) For the front office to overrule the coaching staff like that is unacceptable to me. I di not expect to see that kind of thing happen with Farmer here.

That's fine. At the same time, this latest move has been very revealing in terms of seeing exactly what motivates many of our posters.

It's very obvious that they were not basing their demonstrative bashing of the FO because they were being lied to, or about losing continuity, or concerns about being a national laughingstock. It was all about their personal dislike for two individuals.

Spite and hate rather than logic and reason. I think that has me more depressed than anything. It's going to be real hard to take those people seriously or even have any respect for them.

I like that we made changes ...... but we have made many changes before, and none have worked to this point .....

So, I will be guarded in my optimism ..... at least for a few days ........ and then I will talk myself into believing that we got a steal at GM, and that Mike Pettine will be the next great NFL head coach. I'll be really psyched by training camp, and I hope that they don't let me down ....... like damn near everyone else associated with the Cleveland Browns over the past 2 decades has.

I agree Vers we will miss Banner as far as controlling the cap but I have spoken to a guy that knew Scheiner (sp) from his Cowboy days and he told me that Alec is extremely intelligent and could handle the business side with acumen.

As far as Banner being smart, I will give you that, but I do not think that smart means arrogance... I know many smart people that are not arrogant.... do not see those as mutually inclusive traits.

The Schiano flap... color me as one that did not want Schiano, but i had no problem with their talking to him,I wanted them to talk to anyone they thought viable and leave no stone unturned

...I do know this, however, if my boss wanted to talk to someone I would do more than show indifference to that person, that to me shows arrogance without being very smart on Banners part.

I can see why you are drained and certainly there are many questions left unanswered, but I still view this as a very positive step, I have hope again.

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“He is a people person who genuinely wants to build a united team on the field and inside the building," Snead said.

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I can't remember how he said it, but in the presser yesterday, Haslam eluded to Farmer being an easy guy to talk with (like I said, not his words).

That almost sounds like Banner wasn't. Which wouldn't surprise me at all to learn.

As for Lombardi, I'm hoping that Haslam just saw through him and decided he's just not good enough.

As far as Banner, I too kind of liked him. Smart, in command, and somewhat demanding. But as time wore on, and now that some insight on went wrong has arisen, I started to think that Banner was overstepping his expertise. He was hired to do what he was doing, so he should not be bashed for that. But, IMO, he just was out of his comfort zone when it came to personnel.

I believe that he did very much for Haslam in laying the ground work on how to build a franchise. He also made some good moves in FA. The thing there, is how much Lombardi was involved. But I see it as sort of a personality conflict with him and most people, and I think Haslam realized it.

For him being a cap guru, that might be missed, but there are many people who can fill that job. I think Scheiner has the knowledge and the intelligence to handle it, but only time will tell.

If Banner was against Schaino, I'm with him. To me Schaino was Lombardi and Bellichek helping a friend.

As to the roster, I'll just say that listening to Farmer, I think he gets that. I got a feeling Pettine is going to have big input, and also Shanahan. But, like I said ...hope. Once again time will tell.

All in all, I genuinely feel these were good moves. Firing Chud wasn't. I get a feeling that Chud was fired so quickly, because Haslam was lead to believe a replacement was a sure thing.

Can't say I agree, but didn't see this one posted. No love for Haslam at all!
Calls him a Buffoon...

bleacherreport.com: Cleveland Browns owner Jimmy Haslam continues to pull team into the Abyss

j/c....just some thoughts on what has been discussed on both old n new threads.

1. For the most parts its the GM who has the power but its that ability to wield that power with strong considerations of what the HC and staff wants and needs. You know that all elusive GM/HC working together or as ONE thingy.

2. Few go the other way around. BB and Reid were on the short list.

3. Banner had some strengths but I do think he lacks the Charisma as the Supreme leader of an organization. That flaw came back to haunt him. Of course I'm reading why Banner got fired but I thought is was Lombardi who got fired and Banner resigned??? or is that just symantics on who gets Unemployment checks?

4. Django...lol you won't be happy till you are named GM. Its like you look for dirt and think you know he sucked or something. Farmer is one of the brightest GM candidates around - the only one giving him a negative report is you. Everyone else who actually worked with him have nothing but praises for him.

5. I never do play the race card but there are few Black GMs and the majority of the football players are black - I think they will be proud to be playing for him and would help the rally around the Brown n Orange Flag

6. I think we had over kill - Banner's thing was the Business end but he didn't want to get involved with that but more so the day to day football stuff. Hands on owner stuff. We got this other kid Scheiner??? who is suppose to be very talented.

Same with Lombardi...not in deviating from his job prowess but over kill as Farmer was considered the Super star not Lombardi. Anything important to do with evaluating he was sent. So we got the great Business guy and the GM guy not as a hire but Continuity here.

So we have.
The Business guy...still here and he was carrying the load as it was.
The Personnel guy...still here and he was carrying the load as it was.
Organization wise all we did in that regard was bring on Haslam to be the CEO type making the final decisions not Banner.

Of course in the midst of all this we got the Change on the field. That is what has effected the Continuity or stability with the players. Hopefully the new staff will be dynamic in that leadership to gain the trusts and 100% commitment from the players.

We look to be younger brighter organization without personal goals over the Team goal. Again I think this is a team of destiny the recent FO moves did not dampen this thought/wish of mine. Actually I think it brings its success closer.

jmho