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DJ sorry I just don't have the time to get into some detailed logic nor investigate was you say is true or false.
What I find interesting is that it was Farmer who signed the Bad guy and waste of money but it was Farmer who had nothing to do with the good things that happened in their personnel department. That is pretty much it in a quick synopsis - I like what you say most of the time. I don't take you that serious when you got to extremes cause most of it isn't from sight...actually it is somebody as thorough as you I would love to team up with and investigate or evaluate things together.
Hope that is taken as a compliment and not an insult.
as usual its Jmho 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I went to espn and looked at every FA aquisition from 2006 and 2012 when he was the ProPersonnel Chief....it simply was not good. I'm sorry, but I didn't see one single move that turned out good and a handful of bad one's and lots of "mehs" at best.
Their record in those years was 38-74 and they drafted in the top 10 a lot. Those are the facts I could come up with, so don't shoot the messenger.
Imho there are no moves you can attach to Farmer and say something good about. He may be a smart guy and an "up and comer", but similar things have been said about others before, so to me that's just PR talk.
I hope he and Pettine succeed, but I'm not too excited looking at this duo. Both are new to their job and have a so-so at best resumee.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Quote:
That's fine. At the same time, this latest move has been very revealing in terms of seeing exactly what motivates many of our posters.
It's very obvious that they were not basing their demonstrative bashing of the FO because they were being lied to, or about losing continuity, or concerns about being a national laughingstock. It was all about their personal dislike for two individuals.
Spite and hate rather than logic and reason. I think that has me more depressed than anything. It's going to be real hard to take those people seriously or even have any respect for them.
Maybe if you could ever come to the realization that it was mistrust of the people in charge to do the job and not hate, that would make more sense to you.
I could never hate someone I've had zero interaction with. I can however question their ability to do what they were hired to do and hate the fact they were hired for that job.
Big difference. I have zero dislike for Lombardi or Banner in our FO jobs now that they're not here.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Now, the Browns are a punchline. Paul Brown would throw up in his mouth if he watched this monstrosity.
Not for nothing, but for the most part since he passed, he'd do the same with the Bengals...LOL
Last edited by Damanshot; 02/12/14 03:23 PM.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Good post. We may disagree, but you present a logical argument.
I'm still kind of numb. Still processing things.
I keep thinking about the continuity thing. I have always believed in continuity. I'm not going to cry because Haslam lied to me, but I do believe in it. In my mind, I tried justifying the early firing of Chud by thinking that perhaps there was much more behind the scenes that we did not know and combine that w/the fact that the team regressed over the course of the year, I could at least accept the firing, even if I didn't agree w/it.
But now, Haslam fires two more main players. I don't know, man.......
I realize most hated those two guys so they won't delve into the "why" of it, but man, if King's story is true about Schiano and Haslam is that much of a dictator......and then you add in the facts that Banner, Lombardi, and Chud have been fired in such a short time.......
Again, I just don't know.....
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--Banner got bashed for being arrogant, but I like having smart guys in charge. I think we lose something by losing his intellect.
--The guy was a cap guru. We will miss that.
I agree wholeheartedly with both of those statements. I will miss those things about him. He's a shrewd dude who did some unorthodox things that paid off like taking the 1st round for TRich and trading up a whole round from both a 4th and a 5th. There was more.
I just always felt he was being a bit arrogant regarding his knowledge of on the field football matters and coaching responsibilities. In his element I don't think there's anyone's better. I just always felt he was overstepping his bounds here.
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--Most people on here slammed Schiano over and over. Ridiculed the FO for talking to him... I bet that almost to a man, our posters would have sided w/not wanting anything to do w/Schiano.
I agree with your assessment on that topic as well. So much in fact that I'd likely been one of those hypocritical posters you mentioned. I am glad he's not here. All the ugly things I've read about him in TB freaked me out.
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--Final thought........I'm not angry, but this latest move has kind of drained me.
Exactly where I was when we fired Chud. Angry only at the dysfunctional manner I saw coming from the top. At least with this move it had more of a clarifying substance to it.
And I don't think this is the end of it because if we don't bet A LOT better over the next two years I can see a house cleaning coming again. It may only be the coaching staff or it could be Farmer too. But this time around Haslem settled for "the best available" HC and a rookie GM. I don't see this being the 10 year continuity thing we hope for unless we get real good, real fast and sustain that with these guys.
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It is hard to tell to what extent Banner was responsible for the T Rich trade.
But from the sound of it he was responsible for us not hiring Schiano.
For that I owe him a debt of gratitude and I sincerely worry about Haslam's ability to judge people. If Banner had much to do with the T Rich trade I am very thankful for that as well.
Chud was the hometown hero and OC for the only successful offense we had seen since 99. Banner was thought of as shrewd and possibly unlikeable due to his mistreatment of aging players. He brought Lombardi along who was nearly universally reviled by all the fans in Cleveland.
It isn't surprising people sided with Chud. Not in the least.
I am pretty concerned about Haslam being interested in guys with massive ego / disrespect problems like Schiano (and Parcells). I hope Pettine isn't that kind of guy, and if he isn't I hope we keep him around.
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Another good post.
I like debating w/you. We can disagree w/out all the BS. Ezrye19's last couple of posts were like that, too.
Well............let's hope for the best.
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I understand why people sided w/Chud. No problem there. I just think many lied about their real intent, because they are singing a completely different tune now.......and their prior reasons for all the angst, bitterness, and ridicule would fit w/these latest moves, too.
I actually have gained more respect for Jules and a couple of others.......who have been consistently negative about both of these moves.
Last edited by Versatile Dog; 02/12/14 04:03 PM.
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Good post. We may disagree, but you present a logical argument.
I'm still kind of numb. Still processing things.
I keep thinking about the continuity thing. I have always believed in continuity. I'm not going to cry because Haslam lied to me, but I do believe in it. In my mind, I tried justifying the early firing of Chud by thinking that perhaps there was much more behind the scenes that we did not know and combine that w/the fact that the team regressed over the course of the year, I could at least accept the firing, even if I didn't agree w/it.
But now, Haslam fires two more main players. I don't know, man.......
I realize most hated those two guys so they won't delve into the "why" of it, but man, if King's story is true about Schiano and Haslam is that much of a dictator......and then you add in the facts that Banner, Lombardi, and Chud have been fired in such a short time.......
Again, I just don't know.....
This is going to sound awfully weird coming from me, but at this point, I'd like to buy you a beer and tell you that everything will be alright..
Farmer is qualified to be a GM. Many around the league are saying so and they are the guys that would know.
Pettine seems like a smart guy that knows football from the ground up and Schiener seems like a solid business man.
Having said that, it appears that Haslam has surrounded himself with guys that are good solid people.
I know that's not all there is to it, but it's a damn fine start.
Hang in there....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Thanks. I really do appreciate it.
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Thanks. I really do appreciate it.
No Problem
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Shockingly spot on question! Good for Whisenhut! Did Banner and Co. have an answer to that last part? Some of this strut was pretty unendurable to me. Can you say karma, Joe? The irony is just crushing me as this unfolded. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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It is hard to tell to what extent Banner was responsible for the T Rich trade.
But from the sound of it he was responsible for us not hiring Schiano.
Its hard to tell, but i'm maybe thinking Haslam related, at least at that time, more to the college game than the pro game. Schiano was a winning college coach, but you cant treat pros like college players. Most times they wont play for a guy like that.
Banner could have known that.
I'm very glad Schiano didn't come here.
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SI has Oakland/JAX poised for among the best offseasons due to draft picks and cap space. So, of course, they have us last (yes below Pitt and Dallas even) Quote:
32. Cleveland Browns
Breakdown: FAs: 2 | Cap: 4 | Draft: 4 | GM: -5 | TOTAL: 5
The Browns have $45.5 million in cap to spend in the new league year, and two first-round picks after fleecing the Colts in the Trent Richardson trade. There’s a lot of talent on defense, and a few real playmakers on the offensive side of things. In other words, everything needed to build a real NFL powerhouse. Unfortunately, a front office that deserves a far lower rating than the one we were able to give it (heck with it; we’re throwing the lowest grade possible at this mess) will almost unquestionably squander these great gifts. Because when your team owner is under federal investigation, and your organization has changed team presidents, general managers and head coaches at a dizzying rate, it’s hard to take anything you do seriously.
http://nfl.si.com/2014/02/12/nfl-power-rankings-offseason-outlook/2/
#gmstrong
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There is truth in what they say, but I will wait until the draft to evaluate them.
Farmer scares me, but who knows, he might be a genius who only needed a chance.
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It's hard to argue what's said in that article.
Of course, they could've just as easily said that we are better off now with a (seemingly) more unified FO.
I'd be willing to bet that this writer wrote an article in the last couple weeks slamming Banner for the stuff we've been talking about on here. These writers need a jester, and we are it right now.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Quote:
I understand why people sided w/Chud. No problem there. I just think many lied about their real intent, because they are singing a completely different tune now.......and their prior reasons for all the angst, bitterness, and ridicule would fit w/these latest moves, too.
You have some guts to blame posters for flip flopping and being inconsistent after your Fred Astaire act on Norv Turner. I (and others I guess) actually was playing nice not to call you out on now backing the two worst FO's ever to set foot in Berea, which takes some ex-scout talent to filter out I guess, lol...but to hell with it, since you're still attacking posters and throwing dirt around, probably blinded by the egg on your face right now. Nobody cares, that's why nobody called you out on it...well, I guess I did on both accounts now, lol. That's a backhanded compliment, if you've noticed...talk football !
Anyway, I think most who hated the Chud firing actually said that he was scapegoated and that LomBanner should have been held accountable too. Nobody, not even me, wanted anyone to get fired, but when they fired Chud, LomBanner should have been booted too. That's what I said and wanted to see for sure and I remember many other's saying the same.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Go away. I'm sick of how you constantly manipulate the truth.
You are the polar opposite of guys like ddub and Ezyre19. You can't debate. It's all about your stupid agendas.
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Quote:
Anyway, I think most who hated the Chud firing actually said that he was scapegoated and that LomBanner should have been held accountable too. Nobody, not even me, wanted anyone to get fired, but when they fired Chud, LomBanner should have been booted too. That's what I said and wanted to see for sure and I remember many other's saying the same.
Exactly.
Of course according to some, it was all the players fault.......
Until Chud was fired. Then it suddenly became Chud's fault.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Time to change your sig.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
It's hard to argue what's said in that article.
Of course, they could've just as easily said that we are better off now with a (seemingly) more unified FO.
I'd be willing to bet that this writer wrote an article in the last couple weeks slamming Banner for the stuff we've been talking about on here. These writers need a jester, and we are it right now.
Hey!
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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J/C Anyone looking forward to LaCanfora's inevitable piece that blasts Banner and Haslam and paints Lombardi as getting the short end of the stick?
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Perfectly legitimate concerns and grade.
Everything with this franchise is fully in a "Show Me" state. No more free passes, no more promises, no more mulligans, no more "talk".
.... hmmm, we're in Missouri? Sounds like misery? lulz.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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J/C
Anyone looking forward to LaCanfora's inevitable piece that blasts Banner and Haslam and paints Lombardi as getting the short end of the stick?
Should be entertaining 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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SI has Oakland/JAX poised for among the best offseasons due to draft picks and cap space.
So, of course, they have us last (yes below Pitt and Dallas even)
Quote:
32. Cleveland Browns
Breakdown: FAs: 2 | Cap: 4 | Draft: 4 | GM: -5 | TOTAL: 5
The Browns have $45.5 million in cap to spend in the new league year, and two first-round picks after fleecing the Colts in the Trent Richardson trade. There’s a lot of talent on defense, and a few real playmakers on the offensive side of things. In other words, everything needed to build a real NFL powerhouse. Unfortunately, a front office that deserves a far lower rating than the one we were able to give it (heck with it; we’re throwing the lowest grade possible at this mess) will almost unquestionably squander these great gifts. Because when your team owner is under federal investigation, and your organization has changed team presidents, general managers and head coaches at a dizzying rate, it’s hard to take anything you do seriously.
http://nfl.si.com/2014/02/12/nfl-power-rankings-offseason-outlook/2/
I can't take this evaluation seriously, especially when the writer automatically says the FO will botch the draft. Do these idiots have any clue that Farmer was part of the team all along?
I mean what gives them the right to judge what will be done? All the scouts and Farmer are still in place. They were the same ones that would be here if Banner and Lombardi were still here. So to assume just because they are gone it is for sure that the draft will be bad is just plain terrile journalism.
This is why I don't pay attention to these rankings. These guys write stuff like this to look smart, but IMO it makes them look like unprofessional idiots.
No one knows what the draft would have been like with those two still here, but I would bet that most of the draft boards are already made, and they were part of that process. They would have used the same info Farmer will, and the same team, except for the highly regarded guy they hired from KC to help.
Judging, or in this case demeaning a draft before it has happened is unprofessional, and wreaks of what is wrong with sports reporters these days. IMO the writer is a fool, and anyone who can take his rankings seriously are also.
He gives the GM a score of -5, and the guy hasn't even moved into his office yet. As Eo would say...BOZO.
He didn't even know that Scheiner has been the president since last year, Banner was the CEO.......Bozo.
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jc
As much as I dislike Banner's presence if he did get us away from Schiano then he's a great man and deserves a key to the city.
semi-jokes aside, a lot of these articles are throwing some mad shame and I'm just wondering if it's because of Lombardi's relationship with the media members.
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Quote:
Quote:
J/C
Anyone looking forward to LaCanfora's inevitable piece that blasts Banner and Haslam and paints Lombardi as getting the short end of the stick?
Should be entertaining
Article is already out...I believe it was posted in the earlier thread.
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Quote:
semi-jokes aside, a lot of these articles are throwing some mad shame and I'm just wondering if it's because of Lombardi's relationship with the media members.
While some close to the subject view these moves as a good thing, from afar it looks like a mess with no direction.
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Quote:
SI has Oakland/JAX poised for among the best offseasons due to draft picks and cap space.
So, of course, they have us last (yes below Pitt and Dallas even)
Quote:
32. Cleveland Browns
Breakdown: FAs: 2 | Cap: 4 | Draft: 4 | GM: -5 | TOTAL: 5
The Browns have $45.5 million in cap to spend in the new league year, and two first-round picks after fleecing the Colts in the Trent Richardson trade. There’s a lot of talent on defense, and a few real playmakers on the offensive side of things. In other words, everything needed to build a real NFL powerhouse. Unfortunately, a front office that deserves a far lower rating than the one we were able to give it (heck with it; we’re throwing the lowest grade possible at this mess) will almost unquestionably squander these great gifts. Because when your team owner is under federal investigation, and your organization has changed team presidents, general managers and head coaches at a dizzying rate, it’s hard to take anything you do seriously.
http://nfl.si.com/2014/02/12/nfl-power-rankings-offseason-outlook/2/
I'd be a whole lot of worried if Farmer and the Scouting/personel people weren't here for a year. If it was an All new crew, I'd think trouble was ahead.
There is NO reason to fear Farmer. None that I can see.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
semi-jokes aside, a lot of these articles are throwing some mad shame and I'm just wondering if it's because of Lombardi's relationship with the media members.
While some close to the subject view these moves as a good thing, from afar it looks like a mess with no direction.
Wait until Lombardi makes the rounds. We are going to get hammered and not in the good way
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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Quote:
Quote:
semi-jokes aside, a lot of these articles are throwing some mad shame and I'm just wondering if it's because of Lombardi's relationship with the media members.
While some close to the subject view these moves as a good thing, from afar it looks like a mess with no direction.
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I like the moves.. I'm glad they made them. I think it's a positive.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It's very obvious that they were not basing their demonstrative bashing of the FO because they were being lied to, or about losing continuity, or concerns about being a national laughingstock. It was all about their personal dislike for two individuals.
Spite and hate rather than logic and reason. I think that has me more depressed than anything. It's going to be real hard to take those people seriously or even have any respect for them.
I never liked Lombardi on any level. I thought he was a backstabbing ass that would prove to be a cancer in any environment. Many agreed with that and whether you want to admit it or not, he is the big reason we lost Chud, Norv, Horton and Banner.
I was not a fan of banner but I liked most of the decisions he made here and feel we are worse off without him being around. His downside was that he put Lombardi on a pedistal. He did a great job of reinventing the direction of the Browns, but he should have had the balls to say, its stupid to fire a coach after one season.
he did not do that and helped his bubby Lombardi in a power move to get rid of Chud and bring in his boy Josh McDaniels. BTW I think its ludicrous that McDaniels took his name out of the hat because of dysfunction. He was Lombardi's chosen one and everyone knew it and I think he felt he would be handed the reigns as soon as Chud was escorted out of the building.
When that didnt happen he took his name out. They could have had McDAniels anytime they wanted him.
The Schiano thing is bizarre. I thought Schiano was a good coach and had the Bucs playing some pretty good football. Inexperience was their downfall much like what the Browns has been going through. Inexperience and confidence.
Anyway, I dont know much about Farmer other than he sounds smart and he has no real victories as a personnel man. pettine does come across as a Parcells, Jimmy Johnson type and that has me intrigued but we will see. The fact that everyone is saying Mariotta was the top QB on Farmer's list however scares the crap out of me and makes me think we may go after Bortles who I think is a mid 2nd rounder at best.
Last edited by Mourgrym; 02/12/14 08:20 PM.
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Nice post.
I've been wondering about this for awhile and I will finally share it. I was watching Banner in the PC where Chud was fired and he did not look like his normal self. He was clearly uncomfortable and looked very unhappy----------even for him--------LOL
I have been wondering if firing Chud was Haslam's move and Banner did not approve of that move. It could have been the beginning of the end.
Then, when Banner opposed Haslam in regards to Schiano, Haslam's ego just couldn't take it.
Sorry...........the more I think about this, and I have been thinking about it quite a bit, I don't see how we are better off w/out Banner.
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Quote:
Long Peter King article in SI. So basically, Banner was really rubbing guys we were interviewing for head coach the wrong way.
LINK
Here's a taste . . .
The Cleveland Browns interviewed Ken Whisenhunt for their head-coaching job in each of the past two Januaries, first after he was fired as Arizona’s head coach, and last month when he was employed as San Diego’s offensive coordinator. When Whisenhunt entered the room this year for the interview, he was one of the hottest commodities on the head-coaching market, and the Browns were very interested in him.
Whisenhunt said, “Why didn’t you guys hire me last year?’’
The Browns’ CEO who was in both interviews, Joe Banner, told Whisenhunt he didn’t think the staff he was putting together at the time was “a championship coaching staff.”
Whisenhunt, one NFL source said, was peeved that a man who had never coached and who’d been involved in football mainly on the business side would sit in judgment of his potential coaches.
“Who are you to tell me what makes up a championship coaching staff?” Whisenhunt said, with an edge in his voice
It shows the arrogance and stuff that was going on in those interviews and that others were turned off..it's not the only stuff that was going on.
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Legend
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You keep acting like you have inside information. Wanna clarify that? I don't really consider Insider information from journalists all that legit. You might want to add "possibly," or "rumor has it," to your declarations. Unless, of course, you know someone who has had access to all those meetings.
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(edited to add the quote so it was clear what I was responding to) Quote:
Nice post.
I've been wondering about this for awhile and I will finally share it. I was watching Banner in the PC where Chud was fired and he did not look like his normal self. He was clearly uncomfortable and looked very unhappy----------even for him--------LOL
I have been wondering if firing Chud was Haslam's move and Banner did not approve of that move. It could have been the beginning of the end.
Then, when Banner opposed Haslam in regards to Schiano, Haslam's ego just couldn't take it.
Sorry...........the more I think about this, and I have been thinking about it quite a bit, I don't see how we are better off w/out Banner.
I think you are onto something there. In fact, the transcripts of press conferences are mostly worthless. You're just going to get the unified, politically correct version meant for the public the overwhelming majority of the time. Often times though, you can get a sense of what they are really thinking by how they react and how they sound. Most of these guys do not have a good poker face by any stretch of the imagination (Belichick does, he is one coach you really can't tell if he's being honest or totally BSing you.)
Anyway, I got the same sense at the time. It's just one of those things that doesn't really fit well on a football message board.
Last edited by hasugopher; 02/12/14 08:51 PM.
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you mean like the question to Farmer about whether or not Banner was a good evaluator of talent?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Yeah, I typically hate speculating like that w/out any other information at hand, but I was astounded at how unhappy he looked during that PC, and that was before he even faced the tough questions.
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