As I let this whole set of changes sink in, I think that I think the following:
Banner was a very smart guy, but he wanted everyone to know and accept that he was the smartest guy in the room. That doesn't fit well with everyone, and in fact, it doesn't fit well with anyone over an extended period of time.
Even though he has yet to coach a single game for us, I think that we got really lucky with Pettine. I think that comments Banner has made, (about Chud, and also the stuff about Whisenhunt's staff) really hurt him. I think that a first year head coach candidate would be more likely to overlook such things, but a guy who had been a head coach in the past is probably less likely to overlook such things.
I think that Haslam actually came into this whole ownership ill prepared, because the Steelers have been such a model franchise. That sounds somewhat backwards, but the Steelers have key pieces in place, and have for years. The owners don't have to worry about getting it right, because they already have. I suspect that Haslam expected to hire a guy and have him in place for 10 years. Unfortunately, that didn't work out.
I do wonder who initiated the change at Head Coach following last season. It seems almost like Haslam wanted to stay with Chud, and had to be talked into firing Chud. I think that Haslam respected Banner, until he didn't. That sounds counter-intuitive, but I really think that Haslam trusted Banner until he felt that he no longer could,
I also believe that the rift growing between Banner and Lombardi upset Haslam. If a front office if built upon a cooperative approach, having a CEO and GM at odds tends to destroy cooperation.(and trust) I truly believe that both Banner and Lombardi thought that they would be the survivor in an all out battle, and both had to be surprised that they were both dumped.
I have no idea how Farmer will do at GM. Banner did make some shrewd moved, but also signed a bunch of backups. I like Kruger, even if he's not the pass rusher we hoped for. He is very good at setting the edge in the run game, and is a huge part of the reason we improved in run defense. I like the Richardson trade, and I like the trades of picks for better picks in a better draft. That said, Banner always struck me as the guy who wants everyone to acknowledge him as the smartest kid in the room. I wonder how many other trades we might have made, but the other team backed off because they didn't like the way Banner wanted to deal with them.
I do like the fact that we now have a clear chain of command, answering directly to Haslam. Any owner is going to sit at the top ...... but this gives all aspects of the team equal access to the owner. It also allows for unedited communication. Imagine if Chud could have gone directly to Haslam without having to go through Banner or Lombardi. Maybe things might have turned out differently.
It seems like the way Banner acted towards the very idea of interviewing Schiano was the last straw for Haslam. While I am glad that we wound up with Pettine, (at least, so far) Banner's behavior in that interview, as reported, could not have sat well with Haslam. It had to get the wheels turning, and set Haslam on the path of taking a hard look at his organization. Maybe this is when he actually became an owner.
I liked some aspects of the Banner/Lombardi team, at least at first, and disliked others. I was willing to give them a chance. They did some good, and some bad. When they fired Chud, Banner said that it was better to make the change now if you just didn't feel that he was going to be the guy long term. It is ironic that Banner fell victim to that same logic.
I like what I know of Pettine, and I like what I know of Farmer. I hope that they will both be long term answers for this team.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
The more I look at this the more I like it. Both Pettine and Farmer were guys with a goal in mind. Neither got where they were due to a favor or close friends.
These guys started small and worked their way up. That says a lot about their character and drive. These type of people are rarely swayed by others opinions of them, and stick to the process they have used to get where they are.
Confidence seems to flow from these guys,and that type of thing is contagious. Even if they don't end up as the best ever, I'm sure it is safe to say that they never stopped trying.
Quote: CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns CEO Joe Banner and his top lieutenant Mike Lombardi ended on bad terms with each other, and their discord led to Jimmy Haslam firing both, league sources told cleveland.com.
Banner and Lombardi clashed over a number of things, but the disconnect came to a head during the tumultuous 25-day coaching search.
By the end of it, Banner wanted to fire his embattled GM, and Lombardi knew it. If he didn't know, he missed the writing on the wall.
But what Banner didn't know, and should have, was that Haslam had also grown weary of him during the search -- portrayed as dysfunctional in the local and national media -- and was gearing up to fire him.
The owner and the CEO didn't see eye-to-eye over a number of candidates, and Haslam came to feel that Banner was the reason some didn't want to interview for -- or accept -- his coaching job.
Banner took a gamble last year on Lombardi -- who is reportedly set to join Bill Belichick's staff in New England -- despite a thunderous backlash from Cleveland fans and media, and it ultimately contributed to his downfall.
In the latter stages of the coaching search, Lombardi's good friend Belichick was calling to advise Haslam on candidates, including encouraging him to interview fired Bucs coach Greg Schiano, sources confirmed for cleveland.com. Sports Illustrated's Peter King first reported that Banner was miffed about the last-minute Schiano interview, which took place a day or two after their second interview with Mike Pettine at the Senior Bowl in late January.
Against Banner's wishes, the Browns left the Senior Bowl and flew to Tampa to interview Schiano, who was coming off a scandal-rocked 4-12 season. The year was marred by a MRSA outbreak in the locker room and a public battle between the team and quarterback Josh Freeman. At the time, the interview looked like a favor for a coach down on his luck, but it was more than that. Haslam listened to the recommendations of Belichick and Ohio State coach Urban Meyer, and overrode his CEO's opinion. Others in the organization were also on board with talking to Schiano.
Haslam and Banner were also at odds over Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, according to insiders. McDaniels -- a longtime Lombardi favorite -- supposedly became Haslam's top choice, but Banner had his reservations.
McDaniels had been fired by the Broncos after a controversial reign in which he alienated some players and lost 17 of his last 22 games. He was also fired in large part because of a videotaping scandal. But Lombardi strongly felt McDaniels received a raw deal in Denver, and would excel in the right situation chance, much like his pal Belichick did in New England.
Shortly after the Browns interviewed McDaniels, a Canton native, he pulled his name out of the search, saying he was happy where he was. After the media portrayed McDaniels' withdrawal as another sign that no one wanted the "radioactive'' Browns job, sources told cleveland.com and other local reporters that McDaniels pulled his name out because he was told he wasn't the frontrunner.
The "frontrunner'' retort didn't sit well with some candidates or potential candidates, a source said.
But a McDaniels hire might've also gone over like a lead balloon. After the interview, NFL Network's Mike Silver wrote, “ ... when I read reports that former Denver Broncos coach Josh McDaniels might be the leading candidate to fill the Cleveland Browns opening, I feel like someone has just taken a tire iron to my skull.”
Within about 24 hours after McDaniels pulled out of the search, he called to get back in, sources close to the situation told cleveland.com. This was contrary to a report on NFL Network that the Browns called McDaniels and tried to lure him back into the mix.
Regardless, he remained in the running right up until the end, when the Browns hired Pettine on Jan. 23. In fact, he received the support and recommendation of Belichick right up until the 11th hour.
McDaniels was likely the "mystery finalist'' the Browns referred to on the day Pettine was hired, although they later said it was Seahawks defensive coordinator Dan Quinn, who also hadn't yet been eliminated until Pettine agreed to terms.
The Ken Whisenhunt candidacy
The Ken Whisenhunt candidacy also presented problems. Sources said that Whisenhunt, who took the Titans head job, would've considered coming to Cleveland but had concerns over the management team in place, specifically Banner.
The Browns had interviewed Whisenhunt for their head-coaching vacancy last year, but passed him over because they were more impressed with the coordinators Rob Chudzinski could produce -- Norv Turner and Ray Horton, sources told cleveland.com at the time. Whisenhunt also interviewed with Buffalo in 2013, but the job went to Doug Marrone.
SI's King reported Wednesday that when Whisenhunt asked the Browns in his interview this year why they didn't hire him in 2013, Banner told him it was because they wanted to see more of a “a championship coaching staff”
Whisenhunt, one NFL source told King, was miffed that Banner, who had never coached, would criticize his choice of assistants.
“Who are you to tell me what makes up a championship coaching staff?” Whisenhunt said, with an edge in his voice, King wrote.
Sources told cleveland.com it's true Whisenhunt was told he didn't get the job last year because of his staff, but that he never called out Banner over it during this year's interview or had an edge in his voice. One source said there was never an awkward moment during the Whisenhunt meeting and that he was the consummate professional. The discussion was frank and open, but Whisenhunt was non-confrontational.
"Why would someone who was trying to land a job go off on one of the interviewers?'' said one source.
Beginning of the end
Cleveland Browns: Mike Pettine named head coach View full size Even though the search had its rough patches, in the end the Browns are happy that they landed Mike Pettine as their coach. Thomas Ondrey, The Plain Dealer
Still, the disconnect amongst the power-brokers was evident by then, and the groundwork had been laid for the end of the short Banner-Lombardi regime. Banner had the job for 16 months, and Lombardi, 13 months -- although he was involved behind the scenes from the moment Haslam agreed to purchase the team 18 months ago.
Sources also said that former Penn State coach Bill O'Brien, who also remains close to his former boss Belichick, wasn't interested in interviewing with the Browns this year because of the management team in place. He talked to Browns last year but opted to remain at Penn State. This year, he took the Texans head-coaching job without interviewing with the Browns.
By the day Pettine was hired, the signs were strong that Lombardi was gone, and that Haslam and Banner weren't in lockstep.
While Lombardi wasn't even present at introductory press conference, Farmer was hailed that day by Haslam and Banner as "a rising star'' in the organization -- the first sign that Lombardi was on his way out.
That same day, Banner also lamented the fact that he didn't get a chance to meet with the Super Bowl-bound Quinn a second time, calling it "the toughest decision'' of the interview process. He went on to praise Quinn, predicting he'd be an excellent head coach some day. It almost sounded like buyer's remorse -- but several sources said that wasn't true, that everyone in the organization was completely on board with Pettine and blown away by his interviews.
A week later at the Super Bowl, Banner continued to praise Farmer in an interview with cleveland.com regarding the assistant GM's decision to turn down the Dolphins' GM job.
"I'm not surprised that other people are recognizing it,'' Banner said. "He's extremely hard-working, smart, totally trustworthy loyal and a great evaluator. He understands the elements of character, personality and drive (in prospects) and he integrates them into the grading of what you see on the film.''
Meanwhile, Banner barely mentioned Lombardi and kept his media-savvy GM out of the public eye all season, describing him in March as a "lightning rod for criticism.'' It was clear that Lombardi had fallen out of favor with Banner, and that the top of the organization was splintered.
Still, two sources said Banner was "flabbergasted'' by his firing and never saw it coming. They said Banner thought Haslam was happy with Banner's first 16 months, during which he attracted excellent top-level executives such as President Alec Scheiner and general counsel Sashi Brown and had overhauled the entire operation.
Insiders also said Haslam may have had second thoughts about firing coach Rob Chudzinski, even though he was completely on board with it at the time.
In the end, the Browns felt they landed an excellent head coach in Pettine after a thorough process in which they cast a wide net. Several sources said that perceptions candidates didn't want their job were inaccurate, and that many excellent prospects called to be interviewed and weren't considered.
The only candidate on their list who actually declined to interview was Broncos coordinator Adam Gase, who told them he wanted to focus on the Super Bowl and was happy with his current job.
In the end, Banner took a chance on Lombardi, and when he set out to fire him, they both went down.
Quote: I call things like [the Trent Richardson trade] half-good moves. They're only as good as what you reap from them.
I don't agree with this. The move to make the trade is one move. The player you draft with the pick is a different move.
Quote: Might've been a blindfolded dart hitting double bull, but the guy certainly went down in flames.
I don't think this is true. I think that Banner (and Lombardi) didn't value any running back as highly as they valued a first round pick. They got great value, they made the deal.
Quote: It seems that you have blinders on when it comes to Banner.
I don't see it that way. In fact, much of what I am saying is because the vast majority of the board are looking at this in such a one-sided light.
They keep focusing on his arrogance. Seriously?
They are ignoring that he was the one against Schiano. If he were the one who had wanted Schiano, they would be screaming bloody murder.
They are ignoring he was against hiring McDaniels. Again, they were blasting him when they thought that was who he wanted.
They are ignoring he wanted to wait for Quinn, yet they were blasting him because we didn't wait for Quinn.
They are ignoring he is the one who brought in these guys who are now supposed to lead us to the promised land and instead are focusing only on his hiring of Lombardi.
Do I think Banner was perfect? Hell no. But, he is not getting the credit he deserves and is being unfairly portrayed. What's more, I think most didn't like him from the start and never really gave him a chance. Unfortunately, I also believe his physical appearance actually has a role in this.
I still wonder if we got rid of the wrong guy. It seems that Lombardi and Haslam are the ones who are clueless and Banner's feelings on this process were the ones that were correct.
I don't know if ignoring is the right word. Plenty of people are giving Banner credit for several things he did.
Quote: Do I think Banner was perfect? Hell no. But, he is not getting the credit he deserves and is being unfairly portrayed.
But you are definitely in the minority in thinking the good outweighed the bad. Disregarding many of the reports as speculation when there are direct quotes is peculiar. I think he is being portrayed very fairly. He did many good things (hiring Farmer and Scheiner, getting the stadium deal done, trading Richardson, etc) and all of these things are being discussed and applauded.
Quote: I think most didn't like him from the start and never really gave him a chance.
I agree with this. I just don't understand why it makes you upset.
Quote: I still wonder if we got rid of the wrong guy. It seems that Lombardi and Haslam are the ones who are clueless and Banner's feelings on this process were the ones that were correct.
Haslam is staying whether we like it or not. But is eminently clear that Banner did several things that were fireable offenses. And that is not including the fact that people around the league did not want to work with him. The right move was to fire Banner and Lombardi. If Haslam distrusted Banner there was no way anything was ever going to work.
Quote: It seems that you have blinders on when it comes to Banner.
I don't see it that way. In fact, much of what I am saying is because the vast majority of the board are looking at this in such a one-sided light.
They keep focusing on his arrogance. Seriously?
They are ignoring that he was the one against Schiano. If he were the one who had wanted Schiano, they would be screaming bloody murder.
They are ignoring he was against hiring McDaniels. Again, they were blasting him when they thought that was who he wanted.
They are ignoring he wanted to wait for Quinn, yet they were blasting him because we didn't wait for Quinn.
They are ignoring he is the one who brought in these guys who are now supposed to lead us to the promised land and instead are focusing only on his hiring of Lombardi.
Do I think Banner was perfect? Hell no. But, he is not getting the credit he deserves and is being unfairly portrayed. What's more, I think most didn't like him from the start and never really gave him a chance. Unfortunately, I also believe his physical appearance actually has a role in this.
I still wonder if we got rid of the wrong guy. It seems that Lombardi and Haslam are the ones who are clueless and Banner's feelings on this process were the ones that were correct.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I gave the devil his due plenty of times this year. I didn't like the hire but as I've said a bunch of times now, I warmed to it. he didn't trade Gordon, he got a 1st for TRich and he or his group of guys brought in Hoyer who I like so far.
So I recognize the value he brought, in the end, when measured against the arrogance and REAL LACK of football knowledge that he professed to have, I'm glad he's gone.
I like this new structure.. Hope it works.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
I might add that Banner should be given some kudos for bringing in Alec Scheiner. Having him on the team gives another young bright leader.
True. He was also instrumental in bringing in Farmer, and the Browns new Chief Legal Counsel, from what I have read.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: It seems that you have blinders on when it comes to Banner.
I don't see it that way. In fact, much of what I am saying is because the vast majority of the board are looking at this in such a one-sided light.
They keep focusing on his arrogance. Seriously?
They are ignoring that he was the one against Schiano. If he were the one who had wanted Schiano, they would be screaming bloody murder.
They are ignoring he was against hiring McDaniels. Again, they were blasting him when they thought that was who he wanted.
They are ignoring he wanted to wait for Quinn, yet they were blasting him because we didn't wait for Quinn.
They are ignoring he is the one who brought in these guys who are now supposed to lead us to the promised land and instead are focusing only on his hiring of Lombardi.
Do I think Banner was perfect? Hell no. But, he is not getting the credit he deserves and is being unfairly portrayed. What's more, I think most didn't like him from the start and never really gave him a chance. Unfortunately, I also believe his physical appearance actually has a role in this.
I still wonder if we got rid of the wrong guy. It seems that Lombardi and Haslam are the ones who are clueless and Banner's feelings on this process were the ones that were correct.
Whoa there buddy.....
First they are focusing on his arrogance because that was a HUGE PROBLEM in the organization...it led to a hostile workplace environment. It had negative affects in professionalism during interviews. It had negative effects in our perception within the NFL as well as the public opinion. Some people flat out REFUSED to even do ANY business with us because of Joe Banner. THAT IS FACT
I didn't see ANYONE ignore the fact that he was against Schiano....In fact many are lauding him for it. BUT here is the problem...HIS BOSS based on the suggestion from SEVERAL high football minds (2 of which included Belichick and Meyer..just stating reported names but noting that there were others)...HIS BOSS WAS INTERESTED. and his EGO interfered with his professionalism. Now I don't care how you feel about Schiano...I don't think I would have wanted him either...but you don't act like a freaking spoiled brat that didn't get his way and try to sabotage the interview by being cold, unresponsive, and disinterested during the interview. Case in FACT....he did not do his job which was to thoroughly interview Schiano (who knows maybe Schiano could have surprised him) and do it with the intent that Schiano could possibly handle the job of Head Coach of the Cleveland Browns. Because that was what HIS BOSS asked him to do.
As for the McDaniels and Quinn things you are stating...I haven't seen much of those accusations either...From all that I have read...McDaniels was Lombardi's guy....Quinn was Banner's guy, but he was also high on Pettine. We went with Pettine....Me personally...I don't see what everyone's hub bub is all about...
As for the guys he brought in.....Who has he brought in that is going to lead us to this promised land???Kruger???Leon McFadden???Garret Gilkey???Was Mingo a GREAT pick, solid pick, OK pick????(people are definitely questioning it) All of our Pro Bowlers this year were either Mangini or Heckert guys....And THEY are our foundation of which we are building on RIGHT NOW....So who is it that is leading us to the promised land...so far it looks like Mangini and Heckert are the ones who did that.
Banner did some REALLY good things...he is GREAT with the salary cap, he set us up fantastically for this years draft. and as PDR said...we have to take advantage of those picks or the Richardson move and the draft day trades last year don't mean a thing. Personally I liked Banner and a lot of the things he was doing...I liked the Kruger and Bryant moves, I liked the move with Richardson (hated that we didn't even TRY to replace him tho), I like the stockpiling of picks....But he also did a lot of things that tell me that this firing was the correct move...because he WAS hampering the progress of the Cleveland Browns.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
I don't think anyone ever doubted Banner's business acumen, nor had any problem with him on that level. Heck of a bean counter, good at drumming up business and sales.
That said, judging by reports from now-departed coaches like Norv, I would say that he wasn't exactly a well respected boss. He may know his business stuff, but by most accounts he was anything but a good leader.
Unfortunately, we need just a wee bit more than that on the football side of things.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
But you are definitely in the minority in thinking the good outweighed the bad. Disregarding many of the reports as speculation when there are direct quotes is peculiar. I think he is being portrayed very fairly. He did many good things (hiring Farmer and Scheiner, getting the stadium deal done, trading Richardson, etc) and all of these things are being discussed and applauded.
Your fascination w/picking apart my posts is peculiar. I haven't disregarded anything. You are putting words into my mouth. If there were a ton of people on here singing Banner's praises, I would argue the other side. It's called balance. I realize that seeing both sides of an argument upsets the little world that some of you live in, but in many circles, a good debate is actually appreciated.
Quote: As for the guys he brought in.....Who has he brought in that is going to lead us to this promised land?
The same guys who everyone is raving about now. Farmer, Scheiner, Sashi Brown, Pettine, etc.
Yeah,, I'm sure he brought in Farmer and Scheiner but I have my doubts that he was the driving force behind Pettine. In fact, that may have been the breaking point between him and haslam.. not sure of course, but it fits the time line.
As for Sashi Brown.. I don't remember anyone bringing that person up. but Ok..
None of that overshadows the damage an arrogant attitude can bring down on a team.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: I don't know if ignoring is the right word. Plenty of people are giving Banner credit for several things he did.
Quote: Do I think Banner was perfect? Hell no. But, he is not getting the credit he deserves and is being unfairly portrayed.
But you are definitely in the minority in thinking the good outweighed the bad. Disregarding many of the reports as speculation when there are direct quotes is peculiar. I think he is being portrayed very fairly. He did many good things (hiring Farmer and Scheiner, getting the stadium deal done, trading Richardson, etc) and all of these things are being discussed and applauded.
Quote: I think most didn't like him from the start and never really gave him a chance.
I agree with this. I just don't understand why it makes you upset.
Quote: I still wonder if we got rid of the wrong guy. It seems that Lombardi and Haslam are the ones who are clueless and Banner's feelings on this process were the ones that were correct.
Haslam is staying whether we like it or not. But is eminently clear that Banner did several things that were fireable offenses. And that is not including the fact that people around the league did not want to work with him. The right move was to fire Banner and Lombardi. If Haslam distrusted Banner there was no way anything was ever going to work.
Good stuff. I think you guys are bringing this all together nicely.
I think Vers understands that in spite of doing some good things, and having some good qualities as a company bad guy, that Banner was a liability going forward. The PR, the free agents, the working with agents, etc... It got so messy, doing his job, that its best he moves on. Just like Chud, he will be financially rewarded for it. Very much so.
I don't want all decisions to be made strictly by Farmer and Pettine. The Lerner era really torched me when it came to "football people" who weren't being watched and held accountable making all the decisions. It doesn't work. We need an owner that the football people have to look in the eye throughout the week. He has actually tailored this, by plan or mistake, to be close to what he originally suggested -- the steelroid setup.
I wanted an owner who seemed invested. Who was present. Who appeared to really care about his organization. Who had the nads to hold everybody accountable. So far, Jimmy, in spite of making mistakes, seems to be that. One of the most "tell all" elements of the presser was when Jimmy fessed up to screwing up over the past year. That was about as much as anyone will ever get from a billionaire who has run successful businesses. Jimmy has a huge ego. For him to let go with the "learning curve of an owner" thing was telling. Although he may be easy for us not to like, at this time, I have a better feeling for where we are headed than at any time since 99. Jimmy screwed up. Banner screwed up. We are one good quarterback away from being a solid playoff contender.
Quote: Your fascination w/picking apart my posts is peculiar.
I read everyone's posts the same. I respond to you in detail for multiple different reasons. (If you would like to know those reasons please private message me. I am guessing you don't care to know.)
Quote: I haven't disregarded anything. You are putting words into my mouth.
You have responded to multiple different articles by saying they are speculation when the articles have direct quotes from people.
Quote: If there were a ton of people on here singing Banner's praises, I would argue the other side. It's called balance.
Would you care to elaborate on this statement? You're saying you base your arguments on what the majority of people think and then you take the other side? For example, if everyone thought we should take a QB at pick four, you would argue the other side just for balance?
Quote: I realize that seeing both sides of an argument upsets the little world that some of you live in, but in many circles, a good debate is actually appreciated.
Are you saying I haven't acknowledged both sides of the argument?
Quote: If there were a ton of people on here singing Banner's praises, I would argue the other side. It's called balance.
No, it's called being a contrarian. Opposing popular opinion is more important to you than a genuine and accurate interpretation of the facts, an interpretation that doesn't change simply because a certain percentage of people believe one way. Not very admirable.
Quote: I'm sorry, but I really don't get the emphasis on arrogance. It sounds like an excuse for saying "I don't like that guy."
I get you don't get that. If you did, we wouldn't be having this discussion LOL
You want more? Ok, he wasn't a football guy in the sense where he understood the players talents and abilities or the coaching and what to look for in a HC in Philly. That was in 1999 and prior. Go check his track record for his entire tenure in Philly and you'll see, he's a business guy.. That's not a bad thing. It's just not the guy I want picking my players and coaches.
So, while in Philly he says he was part of the hiring of Reid. that's like Schiener being part of the group that hired Pettine or Chud. Which is to say, he had nothing to do with it. (that's schiener hiring Chud or Pettine that is, don't confuse that)
So I don't believe that Banner had anything to do with hiring the HC in Philly other than getting the contract done. I don't think he ever picked a player in Philly. I don't think he had anything to do with the draft in Philly. The only evidence of that is HIM saying he did. Nothing else exists (that I can find) that references him being in that role in any way.
I DO think he had a lot to do with managing the CAP in Philly and to that end, it appears that he let some quality guys go because of age and dollars. That's pretty much been documented and referred to a lot. (you can deny that if you like, but I don't think you stand a chance of convincing many on here that you are right)
Here is an excerpt from the Wiki page on Banner:
Quote: Pre-Football Career
Banner attended the Rivers School in Massachusetts and studied economics at Denison University in Ohio. In 1975, he spent a semester interning at WCAU 1210 AM radio in Philadelphia; soon after, he was hired there as a sports producer and reporter.[3]
Banner left WCAU when he opened a chain of clothing stores in Boston called Designer’s Clothing. He then became Co-Chairman of the Board for the Greater Philadelphia chapter of City Year, a national non-profit organization promoting community service for youth.[3] [4]
Football Executive
In 1994 Banner began his work in professional football when Jeffrey Lurie, an old friend, purchased the Eagles.[3] He was promoted in 1996 to senior vice president,[5] and in 1997 from senior vice president of administration[6] to executive vice president.[7][8] In 2006, his contract was extended through 2010.[9] On April 1, 2010, his contract was extended three more years through 2013.[10] He changed positions on June 7, 2012, becoming the strategic adviser to team owner Lurie. Don Smolenski replaced Banner as president.[11]
In 2001, Banner received a "PARTNERS Leadership Award" from the University of Pennsylvania for his extensive community service, including volunteer activities reading to students in the Boston public schools and spending time with severely ill children in the Boston Children's Hospital.[12] He has also been heavily involved, in both Boston and Philadelphia, with City Year, a program based on volunteers who commit to a year of full-time volunteer work.[13][14][15][16]
In 2012, Banner was reportedly part of a group that was interested in purchasing the Cleveland Browns.[17]
On October 16, 2012, Banner was announced as the new CEO of the Cleveland Browns by new owner Jimmy Haslam III.[18]
On February 11, 2014, the Cleveland Browns announced that Banner (as well as the team's General Manager, Mike Lombardi) would be leaving the Browns within the next two months.[19]
(Just a side note here: not that it means much, but he owned a string of Designers Mens Clothing stores? Do you see how the man dresses? YIKES.. No wonder he's not still doing that LOL )
Where in there did he EVER hold a position that would lead you to believe he can pick players?
He DID hire Schiener.. And he's VERY qualified to have done that. He may have hired Sasha Brown and it appears he's VERY qualified to have done that.
He should be qualified to hire a Football Guy like a GM, yet first crack out of the box on his own without Reid or Lurie, he hired Lombardi. Wanna tell me that was a good idea?
If you are trying to hire a guy to do a job that you yourself aren't qualified to do, it can be done and has been done a lot. Both in sports and in business.
You write up a job description after digging around to find out what skills it takes to excel in the position you are recruiting for, then you set up a search committee and you get to recruiting. you find the guy, hire him and then let him do his job.
But NOTHING in his background indicates ANY prior experience in hiring football people to run that side of the business prior to coming here.
If you just go by his resume, you will find that he didn't qualify to do anything but run the accounting, legal, admin for the browns. that's it.
he was OVERHIRED when they put him in charge of anything to do with hiring coaches and drafting players.
Did he do some good things.. yeah, he did and I've applauded him for those things. I'll add the hiring of Schiener and Brown. (I really don't know much about Brown but I don't think it's a big deal)
I'll leave it at that. I've substantiated my position.., you may not like it or believe it, but it's what I believe and there is some facts to at least make my position plausible.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
If I could...direct you to points 3:15 and 5:00 marks of the interview. Here he discusses his short time working w/ Farmer, their philosophies, and the early attempts of cohesion between the personnel and coaching departments. I enjoyed the 5:00 response but at this point in the game, it's all narrative.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
Quote: You worry way too much about what people are saying rather than just debating the topic.
Huh? Isn't the whole debate based on what people are saying?
I have to be honest... I'm scratching my head on that one too.
Banner did some good stuff but clearly there was an issue between Haslam and Banner that couldn't be reconciled. They couldn't work together anymore, Haslam is the owner, therefore Banner gets the axe.
Personally, I had soured on Banner especially after the Chud stuff so I'm glad the change was made. Hoping for the best!
Quote: I'll leave it at that. I've substantiated my position.., you may not like it or believe it, but it's what I believe and there is some facts to at least make my position plausible.
I don't have a problem w/your position. Not at all.
I am not trying to change your mind. I don't need others to see it my way.
However, I do think I have the right to express my opinion w/out all the biting rhetoric that is so common on this board. Furthermore, I do not understand why people get so upset about both sides of an argument being presented. I am not saying you feel that way because I have seen you argue the other side. It's just a general statement.
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