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I to was some what disturbed that we didn't have someone there !
just a thought but, who knows that the BROWNS didn't have "someone" there? The only thing the talking heads knew for certain is that the Coach's, Coordinators, or GM were not there. They don't know if the browns had an unknown/obscure scout there or not.
Hears to hoping Dorsey is the Browns Ozzie Newsome.
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like farmer said he will bring in the QB's he wants to see to our house and make him run the drills WE want to see him run. Farmer doesn't seem to view scripted pro days as all that important. I'd agree with him.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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"Manziel’s private coach George Whitfield Jr., who conducted the workout, said he knows the Browns plan to meet with his pupil and have scouted him extensively. “They have a game plan,” Whitfield said. “They are going to work him out. They have done their due diligence. I remember being at the (Texas A&M-Alabama) game, and there must have been six or seven Browns officials here. Unless you have a team in India, you have a full (report) on No. 2. They are well aware of him.”" http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/03/johnny_manziel_says_he_doesnt.html
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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I don't understand why we weren't there but then again I watched I think it was Bortles who they said the Browns weren't there and I literally saw a guy in a Browns pullover walking behind him. Manziel looked great today. It was hard for me to go back to work because I was so wrapped up in watching him in the pads being chased by that broom making all the throws close to perfect.
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"Manziel’s private coach George Whitfield Jr., who conducted the workout, said he knows the Browns plan to meet with his pupil and have scouted him extensively.
“They have a game plan,” Whitfield said. “They are going to work him out. They have done their due diligence. I remember being at the (Texas A&M-Alabama) game, and there must have been six or seven Browns officials here. Unless you have a team in India, you have a full (report) on No. 2. They are well aware of him.”"
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/03/johnny_manziel_says_he_doesnt.html
this. here.
Nobody can convince me that a player as high-profile as JMan hasn't been carefully looked at by our FO. Really, think about it, folks: a team that has been QB-strapped for 25+ years is simply going to simply ignore a promising prospect? While everyone short of Stevie Wonder can see a need at the QB spot?
Please.
IMHO, they don't need to go anywhere but to his private audition. A private workout means that they get to script what he does, according to their preferences. They can use the workout to watch what he does well. They can drill him on the issues that give him challenges. They can look at him with a microscope.... in private. I can't think of a better way to find out what you have in him.
Low-profile ( or no-profile) attendance at these scripted media events does not equate to lack of interest.
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“They have a game plan,” Whitfield said. “They are going to work him out. They have done their due diligence.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Hoyer has shown enough to know he can lead the team and make the throws. The only questions with Hoyer are durability and can he be that good QB consistently.
If you are the FO and you just don't see IT in Hoyer, then you MUST take a QB at #4. And if he is there it should be Manziel.
So you have concerns about Hoyers durability, but think tiny Johnny who's a run first QB will easily survive? Mike Vick is a LOT bigger than JM and he can't stay healthy running around. RG3 is huge by comparison and he couldn't survive his rookie season. The ONLY way a guy like JM can survive is stay in the pocket and get rid of the ball FAST. One good hit and he's done. That's one of the things that worries me about Bridgewater too. We play in a ROUGH division. QB's take a beating. Would be nice to think a player we take at #4 can survive his rookie year.
That's exactly what I'm thinking.... JM is gonna get busted up in the NFL.
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What a great opportunity to take JM at #4 ( if he's still there) and let him sit to hone his skills.
Sure. Hell, lets sit all our rookies. Not like we need players from the draft to produce anytime soon. Let them all sit a couple years and hone their skills. Just as long as winning isn't important this season. We can afford to wait a few years to win. And any player other than Johnny we would have taken at #4 wouldn't help us this year anyway..... 
You want Hoyer to start? Then give him some tools to work with to succeed. A WR to go with Gordon. Or an offensive lineman to block for him. Or even build a stronger Defense so he isn't playing from behind all the time. But if you spend #4 on a QB? He IS the man. The very second the card is in, he becomes the face of the franchise. He's the future of the team. And Hoyer is nothing but a backup/place holder. You do not spend #4 on a guy you intend to sit for year after year. And if you do, you're not going to be around for long.
Maybe the trend needs to be broken, I have started to see the term "bridge quarterback" being thrown around and that's exactly what my opinion would be if we took JM. Is it allot to have your #4 pick sit for a year? you bet ya. Guess what our #6 pick didn't have a big impact last year. However, this year maybe a whole new ball game. We have an extra first round pick @ 26 to help weoponize this team. Watkins is also high on my board, he's the second choice. Believe it or not, I think Manzel has a better chance to "survive" in this league that Bridgewater. JMHO 
If I only knew then what I know today...
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What a great opportunity to take JM at #4 ( if he's still there) and let him sit to hone his skills.
Sure. Hell, lets sit all our rookies. Not like we need players from the draft to produce anytime soon. Let them all sit a couple years and hone their skills. Just as long as winning isn't important this season. We can afford to wait a few years to win. And any player other than Johnny we would have taken at #4 wouldn't help us this year anyway.....
You want Hoyer to start? Then give him some tools to work with to succeed. A WR to go with Gordon. Or an offensive lineman to block for him. Or even build a stronger Defense so he isn't playing from behind all the time. But if you spend #4 on a QB? He IS the man. The very second the card is in, he becomes the face of the franchise. He's the future of the team. And Hoyer is nothing but a backup/place holder. You do not spend #4 on a guy you intend to sit for year after year. And if you do, you're not going to be around for long.
Maybe the trend needs to be broken, I have started to see the term "bridge quarterback" being thrown around and that's exactly what my opinion would be if we took JM. Is it allot to have your #4 pick sit for a year? you bet ya. Guess what our #6 pick didn't have a big impact last year. However, this year maybe a whole new ball game. We have an extra first round pick @ 26 to help weoponize this team. Watkins is also high on my board, he's the second choice. Believe it or not, I think Manzel has a better chance to "survive" in this league that Bridgewater. JMHO
Did anyone consider that Manziel could outright win the starting role in pre-season?
GO BROWNS!
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the thought crossed my mind. He's not used to playing second fiddle, my guess is he won't stop till he wins the job..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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the thought crossed my mind. He's not used to playing second fiddle, my guess is he won't stop till he wins the job..
In the interviews, he sounds like he won't stop after he wins the job. 
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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It's funny, I find myself taking The Browns approach to Pro days, I didn't watch nor do I really care.
Bridgewater drops out of the first round due to poor pro day.
Manziel is no longer a "3rd round pick" because of a pro day.
Just stop it.
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the thought crossed my mind. He's not used to playing second fiddle, my guess is he won't stop till he wins the job..
In the interviews, he sounds like he won't stop after he wins the job.
LOL True.. The kid is a spark..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It's funny, I find myself taking The Browns approach to Pro days, I didn't watch nor do I really care.
Bridgewater drops out of the first round due to poor pro day.
Manziel is no longer a "3rd round pick" because of a pro day.
Just stop it.
I've only seen one mock that has Manzeil after the first round, that one had him in the second. Personally, I think he's a 1st round talent. But what do I know
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It's funny, I find myself taking The Browns approach to Pro days, I didn't watch nor do I really care.
Bridgewater drops out of the first round due to poor pro day.
Manziel is no longer a "3rd round pick" because of a pro day.
Just stop it.
Ditto.
I can't believe that someone who did not like Manziel before his pro day would have his mind changed because of what he did in shorts and a t-shirt in a scripted environment. Yeah, I know he had a helmet and shoulder pads. Point is, a pro day should never be the reason a detractor becomes a supporter. Or vice versa.
I can see it solidifying an opinion one already had, but it should not sway you from one side to the other.
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It's funny, I find myself taking The Browns approach to Pro days, I didn't watch nor do I really care.
Bridgewater drops out of the first round due to poor pro day.
Manziel is no longer a "3rd round pick" because of a pro day.
Just stop it.
Ditto.
I can't believe that someone who did not like Manziel before his pro day would have his mind changed because of what he did in shorts and a t-shirt in a scripted environment. Yeah, I know he had a helmet and shoulder pads. Point is, a pro day should never be the reason a detractor becomes a supporter. Or vice versa.
I can see it solidifying an opinion one already had, but it should not sway you from one side to the other.
Which brings up another question, why do some folks get up in arms if the Browns don't send guys to these Pro Days?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Exactly, Pro Days are scripted, visits are not.
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Exactly, Pro Days are scripted, visits are not.
Only difference with Manziel is that he offered to do more if anybody from any team wanted him to. He was willing to stay later and continue to work out.
But yeah, I'm sure it was scripted and to me, that devalues the Pro Day.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I wonder how Johnny would do as a "leader" if he didn't get the opening day start over Hoyer? How would he respond to that?
I am not a big fan of Manziel only because of the games I watched him play......a lot of his "game breaking plays" don't happen in the NFL in my opinion. I saw to many throws that he made plays on that are either picked off or knocked down in the NFL game. To many times he isn't going to get out of the trouble he was able to spin out of in the college game.
That's just my humble opinion & if the Browns do draft him I hope I am wrong.
But I guess back to my point, How does Johnny react if Hoyer blows it up and turns into something........I don't know that he will, but it is possible.
If anyone wonders, I like Bridgewater and hope he falls to us, but I don't think he will.
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
Go ARMY......Beat Navy!!!!!!
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If we draft him and he can't beat out Hoyer, we probably have a problem.
I like hoyer and all but he's a career backup.
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If we draft him, he WILL beat out Hoyer. The QB "competition" will become a joke, just as in the past. In fact it would not surprise me if the Browns moved Hoyer before the end of the draft if Manziel or Bridgewater are drafted. They are the only two I will say that about...
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I like hoyer and all but he's a career backup.
wow you have a crystal ball?
Joe Thomas #73
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I like Hoyer and all but he's a career backup.
I thought that he became the starter last season until the season-ending injury.
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I like Hoyer and all but he's a career backup.
I thought that he became the starter last season until the season-ending injury.
He replaced Brandon Weeden...let me repeat...Brandon Weeden...who was not this regime's QB and by the way Hoyer isn't either..
If I was afraid, due to precedence, that my job depended on success..I too would want the QB that I personally choose leading my fate.
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He did. Against Weeden and a career back up in Campbell.
I think one must consider the competition and his actual play when saying he became the starter.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I like hoyer and all but he's a career backup
Wow, I wish all our QB's were back-ups then. I wonder what you'd call the QB's that we've had? 
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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If we draft him and he can't beat out Hoyer, we probably have a problem.
I like hoyer and all but he's a career backup.
First sentence is true,, But the second we don't know about yet.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Watched the Gruden camp. I have had a problem with Manziel and his game working in the NFL. Never questioned his unique abilities or his arm. My problem with him has been his decision making. One read tuck and run. Protecting himself and the ball. Not being able to read the defense and delivering the ball to the right guy at the right time.
However, I have never been a hater. In fact, even though I didn't want him for the Browns I was rooting for him.
I am starting to come around with him. The Gruden camp gave me a more personal view of him. I see him as sincere. And I see him as coachable which before I had some doubts. He will never be a pure pocket passer but if he curbs some of his tendencies you can live with what he brings to the table. He has great instincts for the game and in the end he is a playmaker.
Bridgewater is still the best in this draft. I also like Garopollo and am anxious to see him on Gruden's show. But Johnny is starting to grow on me some.
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If we draft him and he can't beat out Hoyer, we probably have a problem.
I like hoyer and all but he's a career backup.
First sentence is true,, But the second we don't know about yet.
There's a 5 year body of work, that when looked at in it's entirety, suggests otherwise.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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There's a 5 year body of work, that when looked at in it's entirety, suggests otherwise.
Yes, it suggests that he's never had a chance to start and compete for a full year. He's a winner when given the chance.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
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If we draft him and he can't beat out Hoyer, we probably have a problem.
I like hoyer and all but he's a career backup.
First sentence is true,, But the second we don't know about yet.
There's a 5 year body of work, that when looked at in it's entirety, suggests otherwise.
Granted the sample is small but in case you missed it, he started a couple of games for the Browns and in those games, the entire team seemed to play better. Was it accident?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Watched the Gruden camp. I have had a problem with Manziel and his game working in the NFL. Never questioned his unique abilities or his arm. My problem with him has been his decision making. One read tuck and run. Protecting himself and the ball. Not being able to read the defense and delivering the ball to the right guy at the right time.
However, I have never been a hater. In fact, even though I didn't want him for the Browns I was rooting for him.
I am starting to come around with him. The Gruden camp gave me a more personal view of him. I see him as sincere. And I see him as coachable which before I had some doubts. He will never be a pure pocket passer but if he curbs some of his tendencies you can live with what he brings to the table. He has great instincts for the game and in the end he is a playmaker.
Bridgewater is still the best in this draft. I also like Garopollo and am anxious to see him on Gruden's show. But Johnny is starting to grow on me some.
Manziel plays the game at NFL speed, release, movement and field vision. Johnny wants to be a "cash machine", so he will excel to get to that second contract and the big payday. A guy with that kind of drive whether you like him as an individual or not, will be a starter no matter where he goes. His marketing value to the team that drafts him will be millions, probably more than enough to justify the pick just from that standpoint.
GO BROWNS!
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The more I think about it, the more I think Manziel is the pick.
There needs to be some excitement back to Cleveland Browns football.
For better or worse, Johnny Football will bring that.
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If we draft him and he can't beat out Hoyer, we probably have a problem.
I like hoyer and all but he's a career backup.
First sentence is true,, But the second we don't know about yet.
There's a 5 year body of work, that when looked at in it's entirety, suggests otherwise.
Granted the sample is small but in case you missed it, he started a couple of games for the Browns and in those games, the entire team seemed to play better. Was it accident?
I didn't miss a thing. He's started a total of 4 games in 5 NFL seasons, 2 or 3 of which were due to injuries to starters. Until proven otherwise, it's not out of line at all to call him a career backup.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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for what it's worth... everyone said that Chip Kelly's offense would never work in the NFL. we were all proven wrong.
Manziel has the same chance to come in and change the NFL. IF we do draft him... I hope he sits for the entire season and we coach him up for a full year before he starts one single game in the NFL.
most of the successful QB's in the NFL since 1999: rode the bench for at least a few games, were expected to ride the bench their rookie year (until injuries called them into duty) or didn't see the field for longer.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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If we draft him and he can't beat out Hoyer, we probably have a problem.
I like hoyer and all but he's a career backup.
First sentence is true,, But the second we don't know about yet.
There's a 5 year body of work, that when looked at in it's entirety, suggests otherwise.
He backed up Tom Friggen Brady! Do you think he should have beat him out of the starting job?
Joe Thomas #73
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phrases have different meanings I guess.
Career Backup as in what has he done his career so far...ok yes I think you can describe Hoyer's career to this point as that.
Career Backup as in the future of his entire career. I don't think that can be assessed as a definite. I think its pretty obvious that we just don't know what he'll become. Career Backup could still be a possibility. A Tony Romo type career can be there. Who knows until we actually find out. Which is why I don't think we went after any of these (GOT TO GET THIS GUY QB) but also why I think we definitely are going to make an investment in the Draft.
I think its safe to say that he should be considered a "bridge" QB. He'll get his shot to start this season. IF a rookie beats him out...Gosh bless the rookie. More than likely Hoyer will start as long as he is successful. If we are out of the post season even if Hoyer looks OK we would probably start the rookie the last several games to get his feet wet.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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One more thing though I have not changed my mind on Manziel being a top ten pick. He is not a top ten pick. Neither is Bortles.
Bridgewater is the only quarterback in "this" draft worthy of being a top ten pick.
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Some Hoyer-facts:
1. Brian Hoyer never attempted more than 100 passes in any given NFL season.
2. The last time Hoyer had a significant sample size of throws and games was a SR in College. His stat line read: 180/353, 51%, 2404yds, 6.8yPA, 9 TDs, 9 INTs
I don't even like him as "bridge" QB, especially not coming off knee surgery. We should have signed a vet to push him, instead of depending on him and his recovery. Anything but QB with our first pick would be foolish at this point
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,147
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,147 |
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If we draft him and he can't beat out Hoyer, we probably have a problem.
I like hoyer and all but he's a career backup.
First sentence is true,, But the second we don't know about yet.
There's a 5 year body of work, that when looked at in it's entirety, suggests otherwise.
He backed up Tom Friggen Brady! Do you think he should have beat him out of the starting job?
Did you say "backed up"?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
If we draft him and he can't beat out Hoyer, we probably have a problem.
I like hoyer and all but he's a career backup.
First sentence is true,, But the second we don't know about yet.
There's a 5 year body of work, that when looked at in it's entirety, suggests otherwise.
He backed up Tom Friggen Brady! Do you think he should have beat him out of the starting job?
Did you say "backed up"?
in his career, he has backed up:
Tom Brady
Kevin Kolb
John Skelton
Ryan Lindley
Brandon Weeden
He was technically QB3 out of camp for us, but I won't say that he backed up Jason Campbell because when push came to shove, he started above him. But, in Arizona, those 3 guys each got starts before he did.
#gmstrong
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