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I've given up on these guys taking one at 4. I bet we draft Robinson lot of Smoke there. I guess I am praying that in spite of themselves the get the franchise QB anyway. What scares me the most is we waste a high second on the Grapapolo kid or Carr at 26. If we aren't going Teddy, JFM, or Bortles I would just assume they didn't draft one until round 5 or later.
I will be so furious if we draft an OT at 4 ......
We need a QB, and we need playmakers. We need difference makers, who flip the field for this team. That is not a RT on an OL that was already one of the better in the NFL last year. I would say that Farmer would not be off to a good start if we take a RT at 4.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I've given up on these guys taking one at 4. I bet we draft Robinson lot of Smoke there. I guess I am praying that in spite of themselves the get the franchise QB anyway. What scares me the most is we waste a high second on the Grapapolo kid or Carr at 26. If we aren't going Teddy, JFM, or Bortles I would just assume they didn't draft one until round 5 or later.
I will be so furious if we draft an OT at 4 ......
We need a QB, and we need playmakers. We need difference makers, who flip the field for this team. That is not a RT on an OL that was already one of the better in the NFL last year. I would say that Farmer would not be off to a good start if we take a RT at 4.
Ditto that. Dumb move.
If we're gonna wait on a QB then Watkins has to be the pick.
WEAPONS people.
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This new group has brought in almost every potential QB pick. They've gone there to work them out then bring them here for meetings. It certainly appears to me they have done their due diligence. While they have also looked at and brought in other player positions, none seem to be as in depth as their efforts on the QB position.
If they don't choose one of these qb's at 4 I'll be satisfied there was no one worth the pick. If they feel that only one qb is the difference maker we need and he's gone at 4, do you still want take a qb just to take a qb?
#GMSTRONG
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So Bridgewater is now not even an option? Wow!
For Mary Kay...I guess not - ask me if I care lol 
btw...we did work him out. So we have interest. If we pass on him as well as others...betcha he becomes a Bengal and will be a thorn in our side for ages.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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The Bengals have perhaps the best talent in the league. Dalton's inconsistencies are really holding them back. If they end up w/Bridgewater............ 
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This new group has brought in almost every potential QB pick. They've gone there to work them out then bring them here for meetings. It certainly appears to me they have done their due diligence. While they have also looked at and brought in other player positions, none seem to be as in depth as their efforts on the QB position.
If they don't choose one of these qb's at 4 I'll be satisfied there was no one worth the pick. If they feel that only one qb is the difference maker we need and he's gone at 4, do you still want take a qb just to take a qb?
My viewpoint is that they brought in all these QBs to determine where they would take them, not if they would take them at #4 or at #26. I don't think they will take ANY of them there. I still think that they are looking further down the draft for a QB. Any of them that would truly be considered at #4 or #26 will be fighting for far better players at other positions.
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So Bridgewater is now not even an option? Wow!
For Mary Kay...I guess not - ask me if I care lol
btw...we did work him out. So we have interest. If we pass on him as well as others...betcha he becomes a Bengal and will be a thorn in our side for ages.
jmho
If he ends up on the Bengals, I will laugh. I hope he ends up being the heir apparent in Putzburgh. 
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If they don't choose one of these qb's at 4 I'll be satisfied there was no one worth the pick.
That pretty much sums up my current thoughts. There is absolutely no question they will pick "their guy", but where? They may even select two...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Legend
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j/c
The fact is, if they pass on a QB who ends up being a franchise QB, they failed. If we pass on one at #4 that is gone at #26 and that QB is highly successful, this FO blew it.
If we pass on one at #26 who is gone at #35, they blew it.
We've seen it before and I'm afraid we will see it again.
Millions of dollars are paid to these guys to do this job. That job? To land a franchise QB. I expect them to do their job.
As a fan base, we've waited too long to expect anything less than that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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The bottom line is any one of the qb's in this draft can be successful and any one of them can be a bust. It's a crap shoot. We will draft one of them. Who it will be is anyones guess. Maybe we will finally get lucky. One can only hope.
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The fact is, if they pass on a QB who ends up being a franchise QB, they failed. If we pass on one at #4 that is gone at #26 and that QB is highly successful, this FO blew it.
Conversely, Pit, if they draft a QB at #4 (or 26), and he is a bust, then they also blew it. I (obviously) have to put my trust in their ability to select "the guy"...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Legend
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This new group has brought in almost every potential QB pick. They've gone there to work them out then bring them here for meetings. It certainly appears to me they have done their due diligence. While they have also looked at and brought in other player positions, none seem to be as in depth as their efforts on the QB position.
If they don't choose one of these qb's at 4 I'll be satisfied there was no one worth the pick. If they feel that only one qb is the difference maker we need and he's gone at 4, do you still want take a qb just to take a qb?
If we don't take a QB, then we need a difference maker.
That could be a guy like Mack. It could be a WR. (though with the depth at the position, I wouldn't take a WR before the 2nd or 3rd round) However, whatever player we take had to be a guy who makes a major difference as a weapon on either offense or defense. Ideally it will be a great QB. However, I do not think that the pick should be an OT. I believe that would be a failed pick.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The fact is, if they pass on a QB who ends up being a franchise QB, they failed. If we pass on one at #4 that is gone at #26 and that QB is highly successful, this FO blew it.
Conversely, Pit, if they draft a QB at #4 (or 26), and he is a bust, then they also blew it. I (obviously) have to put my trust in their ability to select "the guy"...
I've done that over and over since 1999.
I'll have to see the results and some success before putting trust in anyone's abilities. I understand I have no control or say over what they do. But I've been let down too many times for me to believe in a regime without seeing some results first.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Are qbs the only guys who can bust? Why can't Watkins or Mack bust?
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I think it boils down to ways they can fail. If we pass on someone at #4, let's say Bridgewater for example since we both like him  And say The Titans or Cardinals take him, then he becomes a great franchise QB, then this regime failed. If they pick Carr at #26 and he busts, they too failed. So I believe they could fail either way. Any pick can fail at any position.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Can you really say that Bridgewater, for example, would be a franchise QB in our scheme, behind our line with our receivers and backs vs. the Cardinals example you gave? Steve Young pretty much sucked holes in the floor in his Tampa years and it wasn't until he sat behind Montana before he was really ready to become the HOF'er he is.
I don't think you can say if someone works out somewhere else and we passed on them it's a fail.
#GMSTRONG
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Bridgewater will take a Geno Smith fall to the late 1st/ early 2nd...
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Bridgewater will take a Geno Smith fall to the late 1st/ early 2nd...
Disagree! Smith had so..so games during the season which placed doubt. Add his size to the his credentials devalued his stock. Bridgewater and Manziel has consistently shown good game film. Biggest issue whether you take a chance on their size. Both require commitment surrounding them with protection. Browns have established an offensive line where as Jacksonville will need work. Taking either QB at #4 makes sense for the Browns.
I can't remember where I posted both the Manziel and Bridgewater threads are sounding alike. I made the comment it would be nice taking one of the 3 OT's at #4 getting lucky later with either Bridgewater or Manziel. History shown teams are not comfortable taking a short QB early in the draft. Having Mathews, Robinson, or Lewan on the right side with Schwartz at RG would give solid protection. Hoping either QB falls to 26 would be mad. Wasting draft picks in this years draft to trade up is silly.
For those having doubts on who the Browns take at #4, take a look at the list of private workouts and visits. Who in the top 10 are not listed? Hint: Clowny, Mathews, Watkins, Robinson, Barr, Tuitt, Nix, Mack, and Lewan. Mack is an exception since his pro-day is the only one Pettine attended.
2014 NFL Draft: Tracking prospects who have visits or workouts with Browns
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I just hope whoever we get.. they succeed.. really sick of worrying about boom/bust QB's every darn draft...
Hope we get the right one.
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I think it boils down to ways they can fail. If we pass on someone at #4, let's say Bridgewater for example since we both like him
And say The Titans or Cardinals take him, then he becomes a great franchise QB, then this regime failed. If they pick Carr at #26 and he busts, they too failed.
So I believe they could fail either way. Any pick can fail at any position.
I think Bridgewater can be a pro bowl QB in Tenn or Arizona. I dont think he has the arm nor does he put enough spin on the ball to be a good QB in Cleveland. You need to throw a tight ball in the AFC North in Nov and Dec and it is why I am not sold on Hoyer.
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The fact is, if they pass on a QB who ends up being a franchise QB, they failed. If we pass on one at #4 that is gone at #26 and that QB is highly successful, this FO blew it.
That's not really a fact. There is no guarantee that a QB picked where we could have gotten him would be successful here.
That being said, you are probably right...
Anyway, we could pick Teddy at 4 and he could just as easily bust....It's a crap shoot no matter how you look at it.
Noted QB/Offensive Guru Bill Walsh drafted 5 QB's, none in the first round. One went to the HOF the others were nothing.
Even for the best or those that are thought of as best, it's a crap shoot.
If they don't get the guy they want this year, then they gotta win with what they have. Get the guy next year.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Can you really say that Bridgewater, for example, would be a franchise QB in our scheme, behind our line with our receivers and backs vs. the Cardinals example you gave? Steve Young pretty much sucked holes in the floor in his Tampa years and it wasn't until he sat behind Montana before he was really ready to become the HOF'er he is.
I don't think you can say if someone works out somewhere else and we passed on them it's a fail.
We have a WR in Gordon who caught for more yards than any other WR in the league playing under 3 different QB's in only 14 games. A very well respected TE with good hands, a new RB and a draft ahead of us.
Now if you feel that your question is in regards to our current roster, with no other draft picks to go along with a QB, I believe you might have a point. Our OL has done very well in pass protection.
Andrew Luck was drafted by a team who only won one game without a QB.
You see, any rookie QB needs time to develop just like we have seen with Newton in Carolina. People somehow seem to suggest that we are so far away from being good. But if it takes a QB three years to flourish, if the coaching staff can't take the players we have, build on that with this years draft and another off-season, doesn't the coaching staff and or FO burden that blame?
Don't you honestly believe after seeing the turn around in Seattle, that given the nucleus of talent we currently have, that we should expect this group that runs the show to be able to draft a QB and put the pieces around him to win?
We have some good weapons and 2 more picks in the top 35 to build around a QB with. We can keep making excuses why we shouldn't address the QB, or we can move forward and try to land one.
So yes, if they pass on Bridgewater and he goes elsewhere and succeeds, I consider it a fail. Just like I believe Tampa Bay failed not building around Young and coaching him up to his potential. Looking back, I would call it an epic fail.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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That's not really a fact. There is no guarantee that a QB picked where we could have gotten him would be successful here.
I'll say it again, if a QB is good enough to be successful elsewhere, our FO and staff should have the same ability to get the same talent level and production out of him here. If not, they're not doing their job as obviously someone did it elsewhere.
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That being said, you are probably right...
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Anyway, we could pick Teddy at 4 and he could just as easily bust....It's a crap shoot no matter how you look at it.
For you and I? Yes, it's a crap shoot. For people who make millions to make such decisions? It's their job to get it right. If they can't do it, we have the wrong people running the show.
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If they don't get the guy they want this year, then they gotta win with what they have. Get the guy next year.
If they let a guy by who does great elsewhere, they should have gotten that guy.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I'll say it again, if a QB is good enough to be successful elsewhere, our FO and staff should have the same ability to get the same talent level and production out of him here. If not, they're not doing their job as obviously someone did it elsewhere.
You can say it as many times as you like and you will still completely wrong each time u spurt it. Every situation is different. QB goes to a team with no OL and no receivers and a poor defense, chances are he is gonna suck, Warner with the Giants. Take an ok QB with a loaded defense, terrific OL good receivers and a run game and you get well Flacco and his 100 million dollar contract.
Qbs are a product of their environment more than any other position in football.
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Are qbs the only guys who can bust? Why can't Watkins or Mack bust?
Of courese not...we've seen that firsthand. I don't want Mack, and as good as Sammy may be, I believe #4 is too high for him. Therefore, if no QB is picked at #4, then I'd prefer Robinson, perhaps Matthews (JT won't play forever)...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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My question had nothing to do with our current roster and neither did your statement. Both were very general in nature. Using your logic 31 other teams failed the year Brady was drafted because they didn't forecast his value properly, even teams that didn't need a qb could have spent a 5th on that potential. Pretty tough to live up to those prognostication requirements. We're doomed.
#GMSTRONG
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there is no comparison with Gino Smith and Teddy Bridgewater...hands down TB is the better QB. Again I don't buy the BS...Teddy will go high. unless there is injury. Possibly the only concern would be in small hands... Not Frye small more like same size as Colts. So he wears gloves.
He has the same Talent as dare I say - Joe Montana...and if TB makes it to the 3rd round 2nd, late first? I think he will be having a similar success story.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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For you and I? Yes, it's a crap shoot. For people who make millions to make such decisions? It's their job to get it right. If they can't do it, we have the wrong people running the show.
yeah, and the guys that are paid millions to make such decisions always get it right 
It's just as much a crap shoot for them as it is for us...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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My question had nothing to do with our current roster and neither did your statement. Both were very general in nature. Using your logic 31 other teams failed the year Brady was drafted because they didn't forecast his value properly, even teams that didn't need a qb could have spent a 5th on that potential. Pretty tough to live up to those prognostication requirements. We're doomed.
They all did fail. Or are you suggesting they succeeded in landing the best QB in that draft after passing on him so many times?
That's the point to a great extent. People fail at accomplishing things they set out to do. That doesn't mean we shouldn't expect them to succeed. It doesn't mean they aren't getting paid to succeed. Do you honesty felt Haslam thought that this FO wasn't the right group to find the best QB available and draft him for this team?
FO's fail all of the time.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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FO's fail all of the time.
Like I said, the Draft isa Crap Shoot.. For everyone.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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You can say it as many times as you like and you will still completely wrong each time u spurt it. Every situation is different. QB goes to a team with no OL and no receivers and a poor defense, chances are he is gonna suck, Warner with the Giants. Take an ok QB with a loaded defense, terrific OL good receivers and a run game and you get well Flacco and his 100 million dollar contract.
Qbs are a product of their environment more than any other position in football.
So who is responsible for setting up a successful environment for a drafted QB to develop that talent to its fullest? Are you saying we don't have the talent that when adding a couple of drafts and FA signing periods can't provide that environment for a QB?
Look, I'm not saying that you can stick any QB anywhere and he will succeed. I'm saying that WE have the talent to make a QB successful. Tampa Bay sucked for a very long time. Whose fault was it that talent wasn't developed there?
Now if you wish to say you can't draft a QB to a team that sucks at evaluating talent and can't coach, then fine, we agree. Otherwise the QB should be fine.
The environment is built by acquiring talent and coaching. The Ravens made a HUGE mistake not signing his deal the year prior. Instead they ended up paying big because of his playoff run. In case people missed it, their D isn't what it used to be for a few years now.
I mean you can say it is, but we lose against people with far worse D's.
People act like the Rats still have Ray Ray in his prime and we play against the Steel Curtain D. It's simply not so and hasn't been.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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'Cleveland Browns GM Ray Farmer may face tough decision about Johnny Manziel -- Terry Pluto' http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf...#incart_m-rpt-1By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer on April 28, 2014 at 4:20 PM, updated April 28, 2014 at 6:49 PM CLEVELAND, Ohio -- For years, Browns fans have been waiting for someone to save them. Make that decades. Think of the names: Mike Holmgren, Butch Davis, Brady Quinn, Tim Couch, Eric Mangini, Jimmy Haslam and even Kelly Holcomb. You can add Trent Richardson and Colt McCoy to the list. So we're talking general managers, coaches, quarterbacks, along with an owner and a running back. Someone, please stop the pain! No one has done it yet. The new man is General Manager Ray Farmer, who may have a chance to draft Johnny Manziel. There will be tremendous pressure on Farmer to do so. Manziel is Johnny Football. He's exciting and incredibly fun to watch because not even Manziel seems to have a clue of what he will do on some of those scrambles across the field, Manziel will bring instant attention to a franchise which is the worst in the NFL since 1999. But can Manziel be effective in the NFL? That's the only thing that matters, the only way the pain stops. What about Johnny Football? At his Monday press conference, Farmer talked about his meeting with the Texas A&M quarterback. “I don’t think I have any reservations with who Johnny is," said the general manager. " He’s a good young man. You don’t get a handbook with how to operate in certain instances. When you go from being a kid from Tyler, Texas, to being Johnny Football and winning the Heisman Trophy really quickly, they don’t hand you a manual and tell you how to handle the media swarm, paparazzi, how to handle people coming up to you at dinners … Good things (are) ahead for him.” Farmer seemed very sincere in his praise for Manziel. At that point, I asked Farmer about Manziel the quarterback. Farmer quickly called Manziel, "Exciting ... electric … dynamic." He added that Manziel, "turned a lot of heads in the SEC." But can a 5-foot-11 quarterback who bolts out of the pocket stay healthy? Is his arm strong enough? Farmer didn't answer that directly. "(Manziel) is different," said the general manager. "He’s not the quintessential guy who everybody points to and says, ‘This is how you would draw it up, this is the packaging you want.’ "That speaks to a lot of what Johnny has been his entire life, is different. It’s not how you think about playing the position and being effective from the pocket … he had definitely been a very good college football player.” Reading that, it's hard to know exactly what Farmer thinks about Manziel. It's possible that's how the general manager wants it. Praising others He did gush about Clemson receiver Sammy Watkins and Buffalo linebacker Khalil Mack, leaving little doubt Farmer believes both will be impact players in the NFL. But Manziel? Farmer sounds a bit divided. Will Johnny's style of football work in the NFL, especially in the cold, bruising AFC North? Bet there are some long debates about that in the Browns complex. Farmer is not afraid to make a gutsy decision. He took a chance by refusing to franchise Alex Mack. It paid off when the Browns were able to match Jacksonville's offer for their Pro Bowl center. So if he's sold on Manziel, he'll be a buyer. But it does seem Farmer rejects the savior notion for Manziel or any other quarterback that he would draft. In a February 16th interview with Mary Kay Cabot of the Northeast Ohio Media Group, Farmer said, "People seem to think you can't win unless you have a superstar quarterback. In the NFL, the vast majority of quarterbacks have to be managed. You have to put them in situations where they can be successful." It's a realistic outlook. And it would apply to Manziel, assuming the Browns drafted him. But is Farmer willing to put his reputation at stake with Manziel? I doubt it. I believe Farmer is hoping Brian Hoyer comes back strong from his knee surgery. It's why he's looking at veteran quarterback Vince Young. It's why he probably would prefer not to start a rookie quarterback, and why he'll hunt for one lower in the draft. Finally, it's why I think he will pass on Manziel and all the other quarterbacks at No. 4. I believe he will try to minimize the risk at No. 4, picking the player who seem certain to have some immediate success. But do I know that? Of course not. Neither does anyone else in the media, and that's how Farmer wants it. (end)
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Reading that, it's hard to know exactly what Farmer thinks about Manziel.
Mission accomplished for Farmer.
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,293
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,293 |
j/c
I'm afraid JFF is the Brian Bosworth (sp?) of QBs...riding in an outstanding hype machine driving up the draft status of a very, very average NFL player.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704 |
Quote:
j/c
I'm afraid JFF is the Brian Bosworth (sp?) of QBs...riding in an outstanding hype machine driving up the draft status of a very, very average NFL player.
I'd kill for average QB play at this point.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,293
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,293 |
Quote:
Quote:
j/c
I'm afraid JFF is the Brian Bosworth (sp?) of QBs...riding in an outstanding hype machine driving up the draft status of a very, very average NFL player.
I'd kill for average QB play at this point.
Me too...just not with a first round pick in a very deep draft.
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Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 Johnny Manziel (Yet Again)
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