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j/c
what happens if Mack doesn't sign the tag?
While that is a possibility, I believe that possibility is slim to none. With none in the lead.
Think about it..... How much less would Mack be worth if he sat out an entire season? It would devastate his value and earning potential far too much for a guy as smart as he is to consider IMO
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By matching another teams deal, it may be a back loaded contract which would not be in our favor in the future.
Yeah, but that would hurt the other team too. There are no more poison pills that apply to location and such, so any damaging provisions would damage the other team as well.
Problem being, that doesn't fall under a poison pill scenario.
Some teams are close to the cap. they simply back load contracts because they can't give up huge guarantees now. It would put them beyond the cap.
We are in the unique position of having a LOT of cap room. It would be far more to our advantage to front load contracts now to leave cap room in later years with which to work.
It certainly wouldn't be a deal breaker, simply not the ideal scenario for us.
Then that provision would damage the other team as well as it would us.
Does a team want to take a chance that they find their franchise QB this year, or has their franchise guy coming up for a contract in 5 years, and then sign a guy to a deal that will destroy their cap in 5 years? I doubt it. I think that Mack will either get an offer that we'll match, or get the opinion that another team can't offer him anything that we won't match. Either way, he'll be here next year.
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j/c
what happens if Mack doesn't sign the tag?
In absence of a deal with another team for us to match or pass then he sits.
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Teams do it all of the time. If you believe you are only a player or two away from greatness, you sell the farm to get those players. There are teams now re-structuring contracts simply to try to get down to the cap number. I do believe it is a less likely scenario than the one you outlined, yet at the same time, it wouldn't surprise me if it happens. As I have stated, it wouldn't be a huge problem for us given our cap situation. There's a big difference in what we can do and what would be "the ideal situation".
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j/c
what happens if Mack doesn't sign the tag?
In absence of a deal with another team for us to match or pass then he sits.
so he would be forced to sit out until he signs the tender?
would the team receive compensation if he doesn't and he signs with a different team?
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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so he would be forced to sit out until he signs the tender?
would the team receive compensation if he doesn't and he signs with a different team?
He has the option to sign a tender with any team which we have the right to match.
He has the right to not sign a tender with any other team or the transition deal.
If he does both, he sits out the year.
As far as I know nobody receives any compensation unless or until the NFL chooses compensational draft picks. And nobody knows exactly who will get those until the NFL announces it.
I could be wrong but that's how things work as far as I know.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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This is really funny,,, I went to look for information in the archieves and the Franchise/Transition tag information if from 1993.. I'm guessing it's out of date.
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thank you both for tying to look up and giving me insight.
I had no clue and when I google it... it's all Alex mack stuff and steelers stuff with no description on what happens
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j/c
what happens if Mack doesn't sign the tag?
In absence of a deal with another team for us to match or pass then he sits.
OR he can extend with us... right?
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thank you both for tying to look up and giving me insight.
I had no clue and when I google it... it's all Alex mack stuff and steelers stuff with no description on what happens
I have a contact at the NFL League offices. I've emailed him and asked him to provde the rules pertaining to the Transition Tag.
He's a good guy that has provided me with good info in the past. Hopefully, he'll do that again. If I get it, I'll share.
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another ?
what if mack extends before FA starts? can we tag ward or has that ship sailed?
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thank you very much! and we can update the old thread too 
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j/c
what happens if Mack doesn't sign the tag?
In absence of a deal with another team for us to match or pass then he sits.
OR he can extend with us... right?
\
yes, that is also an option.
That is what i am hoping for... he gets no great deals and we are able to sign him long term at say $8 /year or something more cap friendly.
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Ok,, I'm a little busy and don't have time to research but my contact at the NFL said that if you look at the CBA that he gave me (and is posted in the Ino¾rmation forum) you will find the answer.. His exact words were: Quote:
Pgs 47 & 268 from that CBA document I sent you previously spell out those rules and procedure. 268 in particular has an appendix that should help you.
I was wrong, it's in the Information area.
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/883048/an/0/page/0#Post883048
I guess he's saying the info we want is in there. Like I said, I don't have the time right now to look..
Hope that helps
Enjoy
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Teams do it all of the time. If you believe you are only a player or two away from greatness, you sell the farm to get those players.
There are teams now re-structuring contracts simply to try to get down to the cap number.
I do believe it is a less likely scenario than the one you outlined, yet at the same time, it wouldn't surprise me if it happens.
As I have stated, it wouldn't be a huge problem for us given our cap situation. There's a big difference in what we can do and what would be "the ideal situation".
You might sell the farm for a truly great CB .. LT .....or WR ...... and definitely a QB ...... but no one sells the farm for a C. It just doesn't happen.
Maybe Mack will be the first, but I just don't see a team seeing him as the final piece of the puzzle, and worth of completely screwing up their future for in the way you suggest.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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j/c
what happens if Mack doesn't sign the tag?
In absence of a deal with another team for us to match or pass then he sits.
OR he can extend with us... right?
Correct.
He can sigg=n the tender.
He can sign a contract with another team, in which case we have the right to match. In this case, if we match, then the contract he signed basically becomes a Browns contract, instead of the other team's.
He can sign with the Browns on a long term deal.
He can sit out the year.
Those are, basically, his 4 choices.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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This move seems risky and cheap to me. We save $1.6 million on a year when we have $50 million to spend. There would be no long term cap damage with a franchise tag.
Had we franchised him, he would either be locked in for 2014 or we'd be getting serious draft picks.
If Mack gets a huge offer this could completely backfire.
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This move seems risky and cheap to me. We save $1.6 million on a year when we have $50 million to spend. There would be no long term cap damage with a franchise tag.
Had we franchised him, he would either be locked in for 2014 or we'd be getting serious draft picks.
If Mack gets a huge offer this could completely backfire.
IMO
Its not about saving the money. Its about letting him shop around and see that he isnt going to get LT money anywhere.
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If Mack gets a huge offer this could completely backfire.
Like you said we $50 million in cap space, no team is going to offer him stupid money no matter how much they need a center, so we can match any offer.
You also have to take Mack's wishes into this equation. He wants to test the market and we get to let him do so with little risk on our end. He is happy, we will get to match any offer.
Does anyone think Mack is going to get a 10 mill/year for 4 years offer out there??
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I don't believe it's that simple.
The way they arrive at the franchise number is by "the highest paid OL in the NFL". That includes LT's.
You can look around the league and see that C's do not command the money of LT's. Top C money is around 8 mil. While you may see him as getting a great offer, it won't be anywhere near what the franchise tag would cost.
This gives us the opportunity of matching what a top C would receive without taking any risk to have the ability to match. It gives us the opportunity to make everyone happy here.
Mack gets to test the open market and the FO has the opportunity to gauge their evaluation with the rest of the league. I don't see how tying Mack's hands by applying the franchise tag would help in any way to keeping him here long term.
So I guess if you're talking about keeping Mack here without any options for one year, you have a point.
If you're speaking in terms of Mack feeling he was treated fairly and an opportunity to keep him here long term, I see the franchise tag as a much more logical scenario.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Does anyone think Mack is going to get a 10 mill/year for 4 years offer out there??
No way.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Does anyone think Mack is going to get a 10 mill/year for 4 years offer out there??
No way.
Exactly, so we will match any offer and if he doesn't get any big offers he can take the 10mil tender or work out a long term deal with us.
I see this as very little risk on our end and you honor the wishes of the player you want to keep here, and it was apparent he was unhappy with the whole Chud deal and the direction of Banner/Lombardi so this goes a long way to ironing out some issues.
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Does anyone think Mack is going to get a 10 mill/year for 4 years offer out there??
Not me...
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I agree, he probably doesn't get 4/$40 million. Odds are, he stays here and we save $1.6 million. But There are 31 other teams. If 1 of them sees more value than we will pay, he is gone with no picks in return. And it doesn't have to be 4/40. It could be any deal that Mack agrees to.
The downside: this tag increases the chances he gets a deal elsewhere. And in that event, we have to overpay or get nothing in return. With the franchise tag, he stays or we get 2 1st rounders. Bam!
Is there any upside to this tag, aside of the $1.6 million saved?
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I agree, he probably doesn't get 4/$40 million. Odds are, he stays here and we save $1.6 million. But There are 31 other teams. If 1 of them sees more value than we will pay, he is gone with no picks in return. And it doesn't have to be 4/40. It could be any deal that Mack agrees to.
The downside: this tag increases the chances he gets a deal elsewhere. And in that event, we have to overpay or get nothing in return. With the franchise tag, he stays or we get 2 1st rounders. Bam!
Is there any upside to this tag, aside of the $1.6 million saved?
The fact that we get to match any offer he gets and any offer he gets is for sure to be less than the 10 million he is getting in the Transition tag?
Am I missing something here?
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I agree, he probably doesn't get 4/$40 million. Odds are, he stays here and we save $1.6 million. But There are 31 other teams. If 1 of them sees more value than we will pay, he is gone with no picks in return. And it doesn't have to be 4/40. It could be any deal that Mack agrees to.
The downside: this tag increases the chances he gets a deal elsewhere. And in that event, we have to overpay or get nothing in return. With the franchise tag, he stays or we get 2 1st rounders. Bam!
Is there any upside to this tag, aside of the $1.6 million saved?
Yes. He gets to shop around and see that he's not worth that much! A Franchise Tag does not allow other offers.
This isn't about the "saving" 1.6M, it's about finding out true market value. Mack wants to know and that's fine. If someone does offer him something huge, then the Browns FO has to decide if he's worth it...but at least they'll know what someone else is willing to pay. My hunch is that they'd match just about any reasonable offer made.
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*In Baker we trust*
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The downside: this tag increases the chances he gets a deal elsewhere. And in that event, we have to overpay or get nothing in return. With the franchise tag, he stays or we get 2 1st rounders. Bam!
Can you honestly come up with a legitimate scenario where any NFL team would give up 2 first round draft picks and a hefty contract for any C that has ever played in the NFL? I can't.
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Is there any upside to this tag, aside of the $1.6 million saved?
Yes. By letting Mack test the market and matching what he is offered elsewhere, it shows we are serious in our desire to keep him and make him feel appreciated. By tying him up with the franchise tag (which nobody would touch for a C), we are forcing him to stay here. Not only do I believe that saves us cap space, but I believe it will set the table for us to keep him here long term and making the player feel he was dealt with fairly. To me that's a win/win for everybody.
I believe applying the franchise tag would push him away after one year. I like having the option of having him here for 4 or 5 myself.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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j/c
just have to ask. why couldn't another team offer a 1 year contract?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Is there any upside to this tag, aside of the $1.6 million saved?
Yes. By letting Mack test the market and matching what he is offered elsewhere, it shows we are serious in our desire to keep him and make him feel appreciated. By tying him up with the franchise tag (which nobody would touch for a C), we are forcing him to stay here. Not only do I believe that saves us cap space, but I believe it will set the table for us to keep him here long term and making the player feel he was dealt with fairly. To me that's a win/win for everybody.
I believe applying the franchise tag would push him away after one year. I like having the option of having him here for 4 or 5 myself.
Also, if we franchise tag him no team is going to offer him anything. And, while I don't think he will get any offers with the transition tag, if he does then we match it and have Mack with a long term contract.
I don't get the backlash.
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just have to ask. why couldn't another team offer a 1 year contract?
They could. But then we would just match that. Is any team really going to give him more than $10 million for one year?
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Is there any upside to this tag, aside of the $1.6 million saved?
Gives us one more season with Mack, plus it gives us a outside chance to get him to sign on for more in the meantime. But that depends how the season pans out with him and the new regime.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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just have to ask. why couldn't another team offer a 1 year contract?
I don't believe there's anything saying they "couldn't", but why would a player sign such a tender?
Usually this second contract is the bread and butter contract of a players career. Mack has the choice to sign, or not to sign any offer tendered. There will be some competition for his services. I can't see any scenario by which this would be a smart move by any NFL team or by Mack.
I mean if a top 5 C is on the open market, why would you only try to sign him for one year? It simply wouldn't make sense for anyone involved.
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just have to ask. why couldn't another team offer a 1 year contract?
They could. But then we would just match that. Is any team really going to give him more than $10 million for one year?
Legit question, legit response...
The more I learn of this transition tag, the more I dislike it's nature. 
It just seems that it's a little unfair to the player, and extremely unfair to other teams (I know who cares about other teams, but if it's the player's wish to remove himself outta a setting, then this virtually puts up a brick wall). Seems a bit shadowing and controlling in my eyes and limits heavily the player's wants. It almost sticks a fork in negotiating with other team's too.
Last edited by Dawg_LB; 03/04/14 04:58 PM.
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The more I learn of this transition tag, the more I dislike it's nature.
For the player, the team, both, or just for Mack in this situation.
I think they played it perfectly with Mack.
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Is there any upside to this tag, aside of the $1.6 million saved?
I can think of a few:
1. We get to maintain some continuity on the OL. Important, as we're almost certain to be bringing in new guard help, either through draft or FA.
2. We don't lose Mack's smarts as a line-caller. This is bigger than most folks realize.
3. We aren't forced to find/install/groom his replacement immediately. It gives the team time to perform due diligence in finding his replacement.
4. It gives the FO the entire year to hammer out a longer-term contract, if this 1-year 'trial marriage' between Mack and the new coaching staff finds them liking each other.
These are just the ones I could give. while typing non-stop. If I took some more time, I might be able to come up with a couple more. But- I'm sure you get the picture I'm trying to paint-
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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I can think of a few:
1. We get to maintain some continuity on the OL. Important, as we're almost certain to be bringing in new guard help, either through draft or FA.
2. We don't lose Mack's smarts as a line-caller. This is bigger than most folks realize.
3. We aren't forced to find/install/groom his replacement immediately. It gives the team time to perform due diligence in finding his replacement.
4. It gives the FO the entire year to hammer out a longer-term contract, if this 1-year 'trial marriage' between Mack and the new coaching staff finds them liking each other.
Not sure if you (and many others) caught it, but I was comparing franchise to transitional. I'm glad we tagged him, but I'd prefer the franchise tag.
I'd say the franchise tag would increase the likelihood for all 4 of your points. Like others have said, its very unlikely a team would sacrifice (2) 1st rounders.
***If Farmer had applied the Franchise tag instead, would any of you guys voice any words in favor of the Transistional?***
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I can think of a few:
1. We get to maintain some continuity on the OL. Important, as we're almost certain to be bringing in new guard help, either through draft or FA.
2. We don't lose Mack's smarts as a line-caller. This is bigger than most folks realize.
3. We aren't forced to find/install/groom his replacement immediately. It gives the team time to perform due diligence in finding his replacement.
4. It gives the FO the entire year to hammer out a longer-term contract, if this 1-year 'trial marriage' between Mack and the new coaching staff finds them liking each other.
Not sure if you (and many others) caught it, but I was comparing franchise to transitional. I'm glad we tagged him, but I'd prefer the franchise tag.
I'd say the franchise tag would increase the likelihood for all 4 of your points. Like others have said, its very unlikely a team would sacrifice (2) 1st rounders.
***If Farmer had applied the Franchise tag instead, would any of you guys voice any words in favor of the Transistional?***
No, I wouldn't have said a word but that's because it wouldn't have occured to me I think.
The franchise tag assures you of only one thing, you got the guy for ONE YEAR.
This way, Mack gets to look around. Test the water and find the level he's worth to other teams in need (of which we are one).
If someone offers him a deal that is just crazy (20 mil a year for 5 years) we probably won't match which by the way means that the other team is on the hook for that contract. that's why that won't happen.
So we end up getting him for what the market will pay him. That's fair to him, and really, it's fair for us.
It's the best deal, the smartest deal, the right deal.
From what I understand, players don't like franchise tags. I'm not completely sure why that is, but that's my understanding.
I love this arrangement. it basically means that as long as another team doesn't go nuts with an offer, we'll retain him for probably the rest of his productive career.
SMART....
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 305
2nd String
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2nd String
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 305 |
Quote:
From what I understand, players don't like franchise tags. I'm not completely sure why that is, but that's my understanding.
As I understand it, players don't want to play on a 1 year contract because even though they get paid quite a bit for that 1 year if they happen to get injured (or just play bad) they won't be able to get that fat contract the next year. They want that 3-5 year deal with lots of guaranteed money so if they tear an ACL they'll still get paid for multiple years of value.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,962
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,962 |
Quote:
Quote:
From what I understand, players don't like franchise tags. I'm not completely sure why that is, but that's my understanding.
As I understand it, players don't want to play on a 1 year contract because even though they get paid quite a bit for that 1 year if they happen to get injured (or just play bad) they won't be able to get that fat contract the next year. They want that 3-5 year deal with lots of guaranteed money so if they tear an ACL they'll still get paid for multiple years of value.
Makes sense.
So, if that's the case, why would it endear Mack to us if we franchise him. What would make anyone think he'd sign for reasonable money next year?
All franchisng does is give us a year to find his replacement. Isn't it better to find a way to keep him long term? I think so.
So, Transition him, match the offer and he's yours.. End of story.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742 |
Definitely true, bleedsorange.
That's why I don't think it will take 4 years and $40 million to get Mack. If the guarantees and years are high enough, I think he'd sign for less than $10 million per year.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Transition Tag Alex Mack
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