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Holy crud. There are so many things to say and so little time to say them...I think I'll just leave your little gem of a post alone, King. Wow.


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My question is WHY anyone would even bring it up....there is absolutely nothing that would point to this in this case. So it is obvious that the reason is that whoever brought it up or agrees it's a valid point is doing so solely because they believe that a homosexual is more apt to be unstable, violent, crazy, etc. It's just that simple, and it's ridiculous.

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im at a loss for why gaity relates to this crime? If we are going to speculate on something I am more interested on this kid's relationship with his parents.


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But many people do try to connect suicide to homosexuality...especially among teenage boys. Like I said, maybe I'm more sensitive to it than a lot of people. It just irks the hell out of me that people blame the fact that someone might be gay on their actions. That's as stupid as blaming something someone does on being heterosexual.




I'm not trying to blame it on him because he might have been gay. I wasn't even the one that brought it up. I don't remember who it was, but whoever it was brought up a good point.

The way homosexuals are treated now, the pressure of being a homosexual in this world could add even more hate to a person. I'm not saying if he was that it was the only factor, but if he was, wouldn't him people walking down the hallway of the school calling him a "" or a "queer" or something just make him hate even more? Because if he was a homosexual, you know he went through that.

There have been several cases where people who were homosexual couldn't handle how our society treated them and ended up committing suicide. In fact, someone very close to me did exactly that. So please don't tell me that him possibly being a homosexual couldn't have added to this.



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My question is WHY anyone would even bring it up...




Because that is what people do when they are looking for answers to a tragedy. I have no idea if this guy was gay or not and could really care less if he was. Somebody who read his plays thought there was a hidden message or whatever saying he was. If he was and was keeping it hidden I would think that would be a great emotional stress. Add that to the fact that he was already a nut job and whatever other probelms he had with school or his family, money whatever and it set him off.


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You are so full of it. Any of number of things could be said for that....having acne, being overweight/underweight, there are many things people can be ridiculed and bullied about and many heterosexuals commit suicide over feeling terrible about themselves for one reason or another. You and others bringing this up over anything else says quite a bit about you in my eyes. It's pathetic.

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JULES...

crap is my forte

MICHELLE...

i remember hearing that at first, but there has been no follow-up on it that i've seen...could you give me a link?...and i'm glad that you never felt different/unaccepted, but i have friends that HAVE...you can't invalidate that just b/c you didn't experience it...

and of course it doesn't make someone go on a killing spree...that is ridiculous, and if you thought that's what i was implying, then i wasn't being clear enough...i strongly believe that everyone has a different level of mental stability, and when you combine an unstable person with accumulated negative experiences, some terrible things can happen...


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.I think I'll just leave your little gem of a post alone, King. Wow.




Did I just stick my big foot in my big mouth??

Also I was in no way putting pedophilia into the discussion to relate that to being gay. I know they have nothing to do with each other and should never have even used them in the same thread to avoid any confusion.


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You are so full of it. Any of number of things could be said for that....having acne, being overweight/underweight, there are many things people can be ridiculed and bullied about and many heterosexuals commit suicide over feeling terrible about themselves for one reason or another. You and others bringing this up over anything else says quite a bit about you in my eyes. It's pathetic.




I am sure those things will be specualted about also.

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i remember hearing that at first, but there has been no follow-up on it that i've seen...could you give me a link?...and i'm glad that you never felt different/unaccepted, but i have friends that HAVE...you can't invalidate that just b/c you didn't experience it...






I was asking a question more than stating a fact. Not sure about the girlfriend twist. Even if he was looking for her, though, it still makes no sense.

And, I never said I haven't felt like an outcast. I just don't anymore. Even here. Imagine that.


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You are so full of it. Any of number of things could be said for that....having acne, being overweight/underweight, there are many things people can be ridiculed and bullied about and many heterosexuals commit suicide over feeling terrible about themselves for one reason or another. You and others bringing this up over anything else says quite a bit about you in my eyes. It's pathetic.




Jules, I've been through it! Don't tell me it doesn't happen! The only way it will ever be changed is if people admit it. But you go ahead and live in your little bubble and feel like that being treated the way homosexuals are today doesn't make a person hate even more. I've been there Jules. I lost someone very close to me and the suicide note said "I cannot live a lie anymore"

Tell me why he thought it was easier to end his own life than to just come out and admit he was gay?! Because of how homosexuals are treated in today's society.

Explain to me why most seriel killers where percieved to be homosexuals!? It plays a part in people losing self control. Don't tell me it doesn't, because I have seen it happen!

I'm not blaming this guy saying "he did it because he was gay". But that possibility should not be ignored. Until we admit how we treat homosexuals is terrible, nothing can be changed.



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You have no idea how hard I'm laughing right now. No idea.

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Va. killer accused of stalking

Cho was accused of stalking 2 women, was taken to mental
health facility

MSNBC and NBC News
Updated: 10:44 a.m. ET April 18, 2007
BLACKSBURG, Va. - The gunman involved in the deadliest shooting in modern U.S. history had previously been accused of stalking two female student and had been taken to a mental health facility in 2005, but no charges were filed, police said Wednesday.

Cho Seung-Hui worried one woman enough with his calls and e-mail in 2005 that police were called in, said Police Chief Wendell Flinchum.

He said the woman declined to press charges and Cho was referred to the university disciplinary system. The case was then outside the scope of the police department, he said.

In a separate incident, the department received a call from Cho’s parents who were concerned that he might be suicidal and he was taken to mental health facility, Flinchum said.

Cho's roommates and professors described on Wednesday a troubled, quiet young man who rarely spoke to his roommates or made eye contact with them. Roommates Joseph Aust and Karan Grewal said his bizarre behavior became even less predictable in recent weeks.

Cho started waking up as early as 5:30 a.m. instead of his usual 7 a.m., Aust, told ABC's "Good Morning America."

"I tried to make conversation with him earlier in the year when he moved in," Aust said. "He would just give one-word answers and stay quiet. He pretty much never looked me in the eye."

Fresh scare
Students still on edge after the deadliest shooting in U.S. history got another scare Wednesday morning as police in SWAT gear with weapons drawn swarmed Burruss Hall, which houses the president's office.

The threat of suspicious activity turned out to be unfounded, said Virginia State Police spokeswoman Corinne Geller said, and the building was reopened. But students were rattled.

“They were just screaming, 'Get off the sidewalks,"' said Terryn Wingler-Petty, a junior from Wisconsin. "They seemed very confused about what was going on. They were just trying to get people organized."

One officer was seen escorting a crying young woman out, telling her, "It's OK. It's OK."

A sullen, 'isolated kind of person'
Meantime, news reports said that Cho, a 23-year-old senior majoring in English, may have been taking medication for depression.

Writings for his English degree were reportedly dominated by disillusioned, violent characters.

“I felt he was a very lonely, isolated kind of person the whole time,” Lucinda Roy, an English professor who taught Cho, told CNN on Tuesday. “He would always wear sunglasses even inside, and a cap.”

Cho, who immigrated to the United States 15 years ago and was raised in suburban Washington, D.C., was found with the words “Ismael Ax” written in red ink on one of his arms, the Post reported law enforcement sources as saying. It was unclear what the words meant.

Cho used two handguns, which police confirmed he had purchased legally, and stopped only to reload. Police have stopped short of saying he was responsible for the shooting deaths of two other people two hours earlier at a dormitory but said tests showed the same gun was used in both incidents.

In addition to the 33 people confirmed dead, including the gunman, nine students remained in hospitals in stable condition Tuesday, MSNBC’s Tucker Carlson reported.

Investigation of response
With many students still angry about the university’s failure to shut down the campus after the first shooting, Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine was working to appoint a team of independent officials to examine the response.

The two-hour delay in warning students might have occurred because authorities were initially focused on the boyfriend of one of the first shooting victims, The New York Times reported.

Neighbors, roommates and teachers described Cho as a withdrawn person who rarely talked to anyone. Two students who said they were Cho’s roommates said he had harassed several female students and once told them he wanted to kill himself, which prompted the roommates to report concerns about him to the police.


The massacre has revived the debate over U.S. gun control laws, which are the most lenient in the Western world. But it appeared unlikely the shooting would lead to stricter laws or have much impact on the 2008 presidential race because most leading candidates already favor gun controls and are unlikely to gain by pushing the issue.

ABC News reported that one of the guns, a 9mm Glock, and ammunition were purchased on March 13 for $571 from a gun shop about 30 miles from the Virginia Tech campus.

President Bush, in an interview on NBC on Tuesday, refused to answer questions on the gun control issue.

“Now is not the time,” he said. “I’m more interested in helping people heal right now. And that’s why we’re here.”


Candlelight vigil
Parents ignored administrators’ requests to stay away for now and flooded into Blacksburg to be with their children, NBC News’ Don Teague reported. Every hotel room within miles of the campus was booked Tuesday.

On Tuesday night, thousands of Virginia Tech students, faculty and area residents poured into the center of campus to grieve together. Volunteers passed out thousands of candles in paper cups, donated from around the country. Then, as the flames flickered, speakers urged them to find solace in one another.

“We will move on from this. But it will take the strength of each other to do that,” said Zenobia Hikes, vice president for student affairs. “We want the world to know we are Virginia Tech, we will recover, we will survive with your prayers.”

As silence spread across the grassy bowl of the drill field, a pair of trumpets began to play taps. A few in the crowd began to sing Amazing Grace.

Afterward, students, some weeping, others holding each other for support, gathered around makeshift memorials, filling banners and plywood boards with messages belying their pain.

“Our hearts will be heavy, our tears will fall and our questions never really answered,” one wrote.

“I think this is something that will take a while. It still hasn’t hit a lot of people yet,” said Amber McGee, a freshman from Wytheville, Va.

As this campus takes stock of the tragedy, it will be forced to confront the thinking that drove Cho’s rage.

'Shock and grief' in South Korea
Meanwhile, South Korea expressed shame over one of its citizens being identified as the gunman, and President Roh Moo-hyun held a special meeting Wednesday with aides to discuss the shooting.

“I and our people cannot contain our feelings of huge shock and grief,” said Roh during a joint news conference with Italian Prime Minister Romano Prodi. “I pray for the souls of those killed and offer words of comfort from my heart for those injured, the bereaved families and the U.S. people.”

It was the third time that Roh has offered condolences since Tuesday.

The case topped the front pages of nearly all South Korean newspapers Wednesday, which also voiced worries that the incident may trigger racial hatred in the U.S. and worsen relations between the strong allies.


Family emigrated for a better life
South Korea’s largest newspaper Chosun Ilbo reported that Cho’s family was poor when they lived in a Seoul suburb and decided to emigrate to seek a better life.

The family lived in a rented, basement apartment — usually the cheapest unit in a multi-apartment building, the newspaper reported quoting building owner Lim Bong-ae, 67. Police identified the shooter’s father as Cho Seong-tae, 61.

“I didn’t know what (Cho’s father) did for a living. But they lived a poor life,” Lim told the newspaper. “While emigrating, (Cho’s father) said they were going to America because it is difficult to live here and that it’s better to live in a place where he is unknown.”

The small apartment where the family lived is now vacant and its front door was left unlocked Wednesday. Mildew stains mark the pale blue walls of the three-room residence, which is no larger than 430 square feet.

At the Shinchang Elementary School that Cho attended for first grade and half of second grade, there were no records of the former student besides that he left school Aug. 19, 1992, officials said. Cho’s former homeroom teacher was no longer working at the school and other teachers did not remember Cho.

© 2007 MSNBC InteractiveThe Associated Press, Reuters, NBC News' Don Teague, and Tucker Carlson of MSNBC-TV contributed to this report.
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/?GT1=9246

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outcast?...aren't you like Grand Poobah of this messageboard?


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You have no idea how hard I'm laughing right now. No idea.




If you are laughing then you have really lost all respect in my book. I've been there Jules. Don't tell me it doesn't happen.

PS- You an take medicine for acne. You can lose or gain weight. You cannot change who you are, which is what many homosexuals feel like they have to do.



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Quote:

Quote:

You have no idea how hard I'm laughing right now. No idea.






PS- You an take medicine for acne. You can lose or gain weight. You cannot change who you are, which is what many homosexuals feel like they have to do.





Thank you for that insight. I had no idea.

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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

You have no idea how hard I'm laughing right now. No idea.






PS- You an take medicine for acne. You can lose or gain weight. You cannot change who you are, which is what many homosexuals feel like they have to do.





Thank you for that insight. I had no idea.




You are the one that brought up having acne, or being underweight or overweight. Just pointing out that those things don't even come close to comparing to what homosexuals go through.



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thanks Jules...now that this guy is of no use, are there any other horrible criminals we can pin the gay label on?

seriously though, i'm never one to place blame in these situations (except the murderer, of course), but it does suck that this guy had red flags all over the place...parents, teachers, school admin, police, roomates, harassed women...it's not like this was out of nowhere...


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Well, somebody told me that most serial killers are gay, so who should we start with?

Because gays are weak and unstable and unable to handle the stresses and ridicule thrown at them by this cruel world, so they must all kill others and themselves. I wish gays were as strong as heterosexuals who never do these awful things. Alas, it won't ever happen.

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Yep. Because I said them being gay was the only factor. I'm not saying "Well, he's gay so he must be a seriel killer." But the fact is, most of them were rumored to be gay. You say "I wish homosexuals were as strong as heterosexuals." You can never know if you are. You will never go through the things that homosexuals go through.



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You will never go through the things that homosexuals go through.




Ummm....hello?!


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I wish gays were as strong as heterosexuals who never do these awful things. Alas, it won't ever happen.




Come on Jules be resonable here. Nobody was implying gays are weak or feeble minded or anything like that. It was just being speculated that being gay(especially unable or unwilling to be openly gay) would be/could be emotionally stressful.

Now as far as most serial killers being gay. Being gay is no indicator for serial killers but pedophilia, beastiality, animal abuse can be.

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Quote:

Quote:

You will never go through the things that homosexuals go through.




Ummm....hello?!




Thats is kind of funny, considering..... well you know

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Yeah, I know.


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His ASSuming is making him look like something. It's somewhat amusing but I probably should let him off the hook.

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things that homosexuals go through.






What a crock of s**t! Your sexuality has nothing to do with your state of mind. Only *YOU* can make your self happy,get mad, feel sad ect. ect..... *YOU* controll who you are ,what you are, and what you do.

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I'm done with this thread now. I'm blaming people for making homosexuals feel hopeless. And all you guys see is that I'm hating homosexuals.



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Hey...I haven't said squat to you, I know what you're saying...why is that directed to me?


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No, you are alluding to the fact that homosexuals are unstable and weak.....and commit suicide and homicide because of that.

Do us a favor and quit standing up for us. Really.

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It's too bad that man has to feel that way, I do think most people realize it's just an individual in this case. I believe Muslims have a much more difficult time in this country than Asians will because of this one isolated incident.

What I wanted to know after it happened and heard some information was if he had grown up in this country or was newly here. I guess somehow hoping we wasn't from here, not that it made a damn bit of difference in the horrible tragedy.




I read his parents immigrated from here in 92 or 93, figuring he was 20 I believe, that means he's been here since he was 5 or 6. Enough to say he was raised here.


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I heard yesterday that he was eight when they moved here, either way you are right, he was raised here.

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His ASSuming is making him look like something. It's somewhat amusing but I probably should let him off the hook.




I hope you dont mind but I sent him a PM so he could stop telling you how gay people are treated in society.

Ok after all this waste of time I am kind of siding with Jules why are we even discussing gaydom( new word)?? If it is a issue it will come out later. We are discussing this issue like we already know he is gay. hell from what I am reading it seems like his problems were with women. Who would have thunk it??

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well, i'll start...

these two deviants are fed up with all the harassment, seen here plotting the overthrow and conversion of all straight people...


these two are an upstanding pair, seen here at a conference for ending crime, disease, and world hunger...




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No, I pretty much made it clear in my last post to him....I shouldn't have let it go that long as it was.

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Your sexuality has nothing to do with your state of mind. Only *YOU* can make your self happy,get mad, feel sad ect. ect..... *YOU* controll who you are ,what you are, and what you do.




For a normal mentally stable person yes this is true. This guy had some serious mental issues.

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No, you are alluding to the fact that homosexuals are unstable and weak.....and commit suicide and homicide because of that.

Do us a favor and quit standing up for us. Really.




I'm not saying that homosexuals are unstable and weak. I'm assuming that by you saying "us", you are homosexual? You are able to admit to that, and that's great. But, imagine keeping that inside because you are worried about how our society is going to treat you. What I'm saying is that keeping that in can get to you. Keeping something like that inside, (along with other factors... I'm not saying "he did this because he is gay"), can get to you. I'm saying it's sad when people feel like they cannot admit that they are a homosexual.

Oh, by the way Michelle... I wasn't really directing that to you... Sorry



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A lot of people are hateful and mean. You either learn to live with that and not let those people get to you or you live a very miserable life. None of us are immune to that.

My point is, there was NO reason to bring this up other than thinking homosexuals are completely messed up.

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Pass me the popcorn please.. I'm watching a train wreck that doesn't know it's happening.. gawd..


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of course he was raised here...i didn't need that info to break...i won't say random shootings only happen in America, but we've certainly cornered the market ...

on a related note, one of my labmates (who is Chinese) was reading a Chinese news website before the killer's name broke...when it was only known that the kid looked Asian...the Chinese media had already accepted that he was probably Chinese, and the discussion had move on to how China could let such monster apply for a Visa, and how bad this will be for US-China relations...talk about jumping the gun!...


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He wasn't Chinese. He was South Korean. Edited...nm, I get what you're saying.

Last edited by DawgMichelle; 04/18/07 11:43 AM.

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