DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum T.J. Ward

What derogatory comments?

You don't remember posting all those articles about how great Ward was and saying I was just posting agenda BS? Really?

Did you think they were compliments?

Sorry DJ, but I was right about the Browns probably not wanting to keep Ward. Turn the argument around and make it into something else like some of these other guys. No problem.

Just know one thing............I will never back down from any of you when I know I am right and I don't care how many of you gang up on me.

Btw----------did you read the Lava Man thread where I said I was wrong? Can you admit the same thing? Pffffffffffttttttttt.........all y'all can stick it somewhere.

i see what you mean, but yea they gotta know what they're doing.

its just we gotta think big here; we are thinking that a SB team is making wrong moves, while we get hyped about our moves and still go 4-12, 5-11 every year.

lol this thread has go so off track.

As much as I love TJ, IMO he is a situational SS. BTW one that with our cap I would have paid the $5.5M a yr to keep.

But he is situational.. ie you bring him in on run plays. He was terrible in coverage and couldn't tackle in the open field.

But again for $5.5M a year i would have kept him.

So Farmer is a smart GM now? After all, he agreed with you on Ward.

I still don't get your point. I disagreed with you then and said we should retain him. I still wish we did and signed Byrd instead of Whitner. And those discussions were under different FO without even knowing the D scheme iirc

So now the new GM you are skeptical of does what you "predicted" and you chest pump and go all Eric Cartman on the board. Just like him, you're the joke here. We simply disagreed and still do and nothing has been proven yet as no down has been played since

I have previously stated that I have liked some of his early moves. I have recently stated that I disagreed w/at least one of his moves.

I have no problem if you disagree w/me. GM and I disagree and we keep it civil. ddub and I disagree and we keep it civil. Razor and I disagree and we keep it civil. I don't care if you disagree. In fact, I think it's cool. It could spark debate. I just prefer honest debate.

Yeah, DJ.......................I am the joke here. Great argument.

I really had high hopes for you. You study the game. You are fairly intelligent. You are well spoken. Debating different topics could have made this board a better place. It could lead to education. And believe me.............there are plenty who want to be educated. But, your ego gets in the way. I am the joke here. Not sure what that has to do w/the evaluation of Ward, but then again, maybe that is the entire point. It has absolutely NOTHING TO DO W/THE EVALUATION OF WARD, so let's deflect things onto the poster who disagrees w/us.

Yep, I'm the joke.

See, that's so typical of you Vers.

Yes, you ARE the joke here because all there was in this thread was disagreement, as you conceeded. So why ask for apologies, the constant claim of false victimization, if we simply disagreed and there are arguments on both sides? Ward got paid, he IS valued, just not by us, which is a different discussion alltogether.

And now that I explained the punch line for everyone, I'm being the ass about it and you act as if you're sent by the NATO, lol

Re-read this thread. I and others said their piece and then you rumbled in like an Oran Utan screaming for a banana. Of course the joke is on you.

Back on topic somewhat ........

I had to look and see who Denver's starting SS was last year. It was Duke Ihenacho.

Who?

Anyway, the Broncos obviously feel that they upgraded the spot, and they didn't break the bank to do so.

I look at the Broncos defense from last year, and they were a "good" run defense ...... but why? Because no one could afford to try and run against them. They had to go all out, throwing the ball all over the place, to try and keep up with the Broncos defense.

Given the Ward's strength is against the run, playing in the box, I don't see him as a huge help, but he should be an upgrade over what they had last year. Maybe he will be given that they also signed Talib, so they can afford to play Ward closer to the line, especially being able to turn loose Ware and Miller on opposing QBs.

It is kinda funny how many former Browns have turned up in Denver. Guys like LJ Fort and Hall Davis at LB ...... TJ Ward as a big dollar free agent ...... plus Mike Adams and Eric Hagg. Now I don't expect that all, or maybe even most will be there when the season opens .... and it is to be expected with Heckert there ... but it is kinda funny.

I grew up with 7 brothers and sisters,so I kinda enjoy the bickering.Reminds me of home.
I've been intently following along here,but you've lost me.Would you please explain to me,just for my records,what an "Oran Utan" is?

Reading this, it seems like TJ directly contradicts his agent. If not, then his agent (and he) made such outrageous contract demands that the Browns didn't even bother with a response.

However, it sure seems like the Browns met with Ward's agent a number of times, and at least listened to his contract demands. If Ward is saying that they didn't, then he is calling his agent a liar.

Weird. To me it almost seems like "They didn't give me what I wanted, so they suck!"

As far as Whitner/Ward, I think that we made, at the very least, a parallel move. I actually think that it will be better than that, as I think that we'll get better leadership from Whitner, and also better pass cover. Neither of these guys is as good as Byrd ..... but I think that Whitner showed major improvement in pass defense last year.

Oh well ... the past is the past.

Former Browns safety T.J. Ward: 'Cleveland offered me nothing' | cleveland.com
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss..._special-report


CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Former Browns All-Pro safety T.J. Ward revealed Thursday that the new Browns' brass really didn't want him back.

"Quotes get misunderstood all the time,'' Ward tweeted in reference to a Sirius XM NFL Radio interview he did Thursday. "Just FYI. Cleveland offered me nothing. Boom! There u have it.#GoBroncos.''

Ward, a 2013 second-team All-Pro honoree, signed a four-year contract with the Denver Broncos worth $22.5 million, including $5 million guaranteed. The Lions, 49ers and Jets were also talking to him, a source said. The Browns, meanwhile, signed ninth-year safety and two-time Pro Bowler Donte Whitner to a four-year deal worth $28 million.

"I didn't think I'd be gone but that's the nature of this business and I'm happy to be with my new home in Denver and just looking forward to continuing a good career and getting better and winning a Super Bowl,'' said Ward. "I know that's what it's all about so I'm definitely excited about the future.''

Ward never got the opportunity to meet with new coach Mike Pettine and state his case. Meanwhile, they applied the transition tag to center Alex Mack to retain the right of first refusal.

"The guys that they brought in, the coaches, that whole new genre, they didn't bring me in,'' Ward told Sirius XM. "I was surprised, but that the same time, I wasn't. You know how it goes. Anything can happen at anytime. Guys come and go, get signed, released, it's the nature of the business. I was trying to prepare myself and tell myself don't be surprised, just roll with the punches…''

Ward, 27, acknowledged that his four years in Cleveland --which included three head coaches -- were turbulent.

"It was kind of rough,'' he said. "I've been through a lot in this short career and I'm happy to be somewhere where there's a little more stability, to have that guy under center (Peyton Manning), because that's what we didn't have. We had a fluctuation of coaches, quarterbacks, I think I've been through more owners than players have been through coaches. But like I said, I'm happy to be in Denver. I appreciate everything Cleveland did for me. The fans, the city, it was great living out there, but I just want to be somewhere where I can win, and we'll win now, so I'm just very happy to be in Denver.''

He said he chose Denver, who lost to Seattle in the Super Bowl, for a chance to grab the brass ring. He was brought in by Broncos Director of Pro Personnel Tom Heckert, who drafted him in the second round of the 2010 draft out of Oregon. His good friend and fellow former Browns safety Mike Adams also helped recruit him.

"(It was) just the possibility of winning a Super Bowl and playing with one of the greatest quarterbacks that's ever played this game,'' said Ward, who hoped to turn things around in Cleveland with his best friend and draft classmate Joe Haden. "Going to the Super Bowl last year, they were a couple of pieces away and they added me and my abilities can possibly help us get over that hump…It was a good contract and all the above, it was pretty much everything came into play at once.''

Early on in free agency, Ward's agent Josh Arnold issued a statement explaining where things stood with the Browns.

"Detailed contract discussions with multiple front office executives of the Browns began last month at the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis,'' Arnold said in the statement. "Since then several conversations have occurred in an attempt to secure a new deal for T.J., but we've yet to agree on terms that work for both sides.

“T.J. has proven himself to be not only an elite NFL safety, but an elite and top NFL player league wide which is evidenced by him earning both All-Pro and Pro Bowl recognition this past season. With the passing of the franchise/transition tag deadline, we remain open to further discussions with the Browns in working towards a long-term deal and look forward to that possibility.

"However, if things don't work out in Cleveland, we likewise look forward to the opportunity that can coincide with becoming an unrestricted free agent. Several factors will be considered before making a final decision that will provide best for T.J. and his family.”

If all goes as planned, Ward will know how Adams felt last year.

I saw what Ward said and thought it contradicted what his agent said as well. His agent said there were discussions. Ward said there was no offer. Discussions don't always lead to an offer.

I seem to recall that there was a point where Ward's agent said something about wanting $8 million/year ..... and if he started at that point with the Browns, they could have decided that they were never going to get to a reasonable number, and decided at that point that they were going to look in a different direction.

Quote:

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Since then several conversations have occurred in an attempt to secure a new deal for T.J., but we've yet to agree on terms that work for both sides.

---

It sounds to me like there were terms discussed. Perhaps with some give-and -take, just no terms that worked for both sides.

Ward saying, "They offered me nothing", may not be a statement that should be taken so literally. I believe it's one of them there things that is called an exaggeration. Why would the Browns and his agent meet several times if they Browns just sat there closed lipped and offered "nothing"? I think one meeting like that would enough.

Ward probably just wanted insane money and thought anything less was a disrespectful offer... nothing.

So he tests the market and finds no one else is offering him that kind of money either so he took what he could get and now bad-mouths the Browns.

His agent can throw out all the "He's an All-Pro and a Pro Bowler" comments he wants...

Ward is what he is, he's an in the box safety that's not very good at covering people...

It's crazy that Whitner has been in the league 4 years longer than TJ, but isn't even 2 years older...

If Ward can get as rounded as Whitner is, that's great, hopefully for him it doesn't happen until it's TOO late...

It'd help if he learned to tackle...

Well .... then there's this comment .......

SiriusXM NFL Radio @SiriusXMNFL · 11h ago
#Broncos SS @BossWard43: I appreciate everything the #Browns did for me and their fans...but I wanted to go to a place where I could win.

So which was it ...... the Browns never made him an offer .... or he wanted to move on .......?

They made him an offer, to let the admin call Mayflower for him.

I can't find it, but I remember Ward making a crack about the Browns in an interview at the Pro Bowl.

j/c

There is a reason that the new guys let DQ and Ward simply walk away.

They aren't worth what they think they are...they were NOT leaders on the filed...in spite of what people want to think...and they don't fit the new model.

We won't miss anything about the at-best ordinary play we got from these two.

I need to find the quote by Doug Dieken where he says exactly what I'm implying above.

Found it:

Doug Dieken: “I think the Browns replaced a couple key components that they let go in D’Qwell (Jackson) and T.J. (Ward), but I think that Mike Pettine had a type of player he wanted and he targeted them. Dansby is someone the younger players can look up to. You can count on him to make sure everyone is lined up and he has that natural leadership about him. He leads by example and by being vocal, but it’s one thing to talk, it’s another to back it up. He understands that part of his role is to be a leader and that’s a big part. With the way teams are spreading out (the defense) these days, you need someone who gives you versatility, which (Donte) Whitner has. He brings four more years of experience compared to T.J. It all comes down to what you do on the field. If you can’t back it up, then that leadership role won’t work well, but the history of both these players tells you that they will not only say it, but they will do it.”

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...49-bff9ae4cc846

Newly signed Denver Broncos safety T.J. Ward went from presumed franchise-tag candidate to persona non grata once the new regime took the reins with the Cleveland Browns in late January.

Ward never met with new coach Mike Pettine before he hit the free-agent market.

"The guys that they brought in, the coaches, that whole new genre, they didn't bring me in," Ward told SiriusXM NFL, via The Plain Dealer, on Thursday. "I was surprised, but that the same time, I wasn't. You know how it goes. Anything can happen at anytime. Guys come and go, get signed, released, it's the nature of the business."

Ward followed up on Twitter, suggesting he never even received an offer from the Browns.


We're left to wonder if Ward was being literal or merely embellishing for effect.

What's clear is that Pettine's staff placed a higher value on Donte Whitner as his box safety.

Pettine just viewed Ward differently than the Broncos did -- as a hammer at the line of scrimmage who held his own in coverage and played at a Pro Bowl level in 2013.

The latest "Around The League Podcast" breaks down DeSean Jackson trade rumors and tries to figure out who will be next year's Michael Bennett (or Brent Grimes).

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000335915/article/tj-ward-cleveland-browns-offered-me-nothing

meh, not much knew there... just a chance to show browns in abad light in the media again.

They prfereed Whitenr, what is so hard for the media to understand?

Looked I liked TJ, wish he was still here, but the bottom line is we have sucked for years, time to change the dynamic and i will assume that change will include decisions I do not particularly like and / or agree with

Right or wrong, only time will tell.

Quote:

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We're left to wonder if Ward was being literal or merely embellishing for effect.

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And there's the real meat of the story. His statement was ambiguous in meaning.
This is a non-story at a point where free agency has cooled off significantly... writers are just trying to create "buzz"..

I love when players go to a new team and make comments about being able to play for a "winner". Well maybe if they played better their team would have been winners. Ward and DQ act as if they had no part in the losing. Safety and an ILB, probably two of the main guys you need to step up on third down.

Our offense wasn't that good, but the defense gave away leads more than a couple times in the fourth quarter. So IMO making commnts like that shows a selfish side to even guys like DQ. They were part of the problem, but act as if they weren't.

How many times was Ward beat deep? How many times did DQ actually make a play on third down to stop a drive? Every player wants to go to a team that is winning, but a valuable player is one that helps a losing team win. I fail to see where either of these guys did anything to help this team be a winner.

DQ was a leader in the locker room, and knew how to make the defensive calls. Other than that, he was no game changer. And if you think about it, if he was the one making the defensive calls and lining guys up, he can also be blamed for the failures to stop teams on third down. Same goes for Ward.

1. If what Ward said is true and the FO didn't even make any sincere effort to keep him, I think that's a stupid move.

2. However, it's an equally stupid move by TJ to make that stuff public. Whether it's frustration he's gone, can't stand being not wanted by a team, an attempt to have the last word, etc....be a professional, keep it in-house, and move on to the next gig.

Quote:

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Ward never met with new coach Mike Pettine before he hit the free-agent market.

"The guys that they brought in, the coaches, that whole new genre, they didn't bring me in," Ward told SiriusXM NFL, via The Plain Dealer, on Thursday. "I was surprised, but that the same time, I wasn't. You know how it goes. Anything can happen at anytime. Guys come and go, get signed, released, it's the nature of the business."

---

Here is the REAL MEAT of the story.

Pettine and others didn't think enough of Ward to even talk to him, yet they flew out to California to talk to Mack.

Anyone wanna rethink and amend their aggressive stance?

I think that it's obvious that the Browns, and their new staff, wanted Whitner, felt that they could get him on day 1, (which they did) and preferred him to Ward.

I do remember Ward and his agent throwing around numbers like $8 million+/year when talking about negotiations with the Browns. If they threw those numbers the browns way as well, then it's entirely possible that the Browns immediately decided that they would look in a different direction.

Regardless, we know that teh Browns preferred Whitner, and snapped him up right away. It's done.

It's a bad non move by the new guys.

Posters on here keep forgetting that Whitner wasn't even half the player Ward is now at the same Stage of their careers. Whitner was considered a semi bust in BUF, Ward is an AllPro. Whitner was crap for 6+ seasons in coverage and admitted that until he decided to do something about it in his last contract year....

It's done and I'll move on because I like Whitner, but I am pretty sure we will regtet this swap no later than two years from now when we will probably cut him and have nothing to show for letting an AllPro in his prime walk.
It was a short sighted move....and if they were at least going ALL win now mode, it would have made much more sense.

I just fail to see any coherent plan in what these guys are doing this offseason. It looks a lot like more of the same to me...

Whitner is a year and a half older than Ward.

He has been in the league 4 years longer than TJ.

TJ will be 31 by the time he has the same amount of experience as Whitner.

Whitner will be 32.

So, what's the plan?

The best part about the rest of this thread will be that Vers and Dj will be forced to agree in their debates. That alone is worth my time to explain what has happened right before your own eyes and ears.

The Plan - according to Willie's interpretation

Jimmy wants accountability...he got none from his FO and from their chosen coaches. The culture of this team needs to change...and for once...really change. The structure in our chain of command was a mess. Chud was a dud. I liked him...his performance justified his dismissal. His tenure here meant nothing...nor should it have any meaning.

After dismissing Chud, Jimmy got an up close look at how dysfunctional was his chain of command and the two leaders who built it. Those two guys - just like Chud - were NOT the leaders that we need to change our culture. The FO chain of command was revised to put people in spots that they can succeed in and reflects a more common sense approach.

I'll pause here to state that 9 out of 10 Browns fans couldn't care less whether a now-gone regime was successful or not. Those 9 are ready to move on. Vers and Dj will likely - at some point - sabotage the rest of the thread to whine about the Mangini-Holgren-Banner regimes and how they were/are better/worse than their predecessor/successors.

A guy recognized as an up-and-comer is named GM. A no-nonsense, tough head coach gets hired. The old OC & DC are not offered new contracts - because they BOTH failed as miserably as did Chud.

Note: Every single one of those coaches' prior-year/pre-Cleveland teams performed DRAMATICALY better the year AFTER those guys left. Hmmm.

Two "leaders" of the defense are not offered contracts in free agency. I'll say primarily because they don't fit the new scheme. IMO, they both way over-valued themselves and were leaders who could not be followed. The hole at ILB was made less-deep simply from the mere fact that DQ was no longer on the roster. (See my post about Dieken's comments regarding the ILB/SS swap this off-season.)

The culture and accountability on the D made a dramatic turn right there and Farmer/Pettine knew it was necessary. This is a major turning point for the Browns.

We picked up a legit starting RB on a show-me contract who is a perfect fit for our new scheme. That legit starter makes our serviceable backup-type RBs...well...backups. Oh the horror. Now we don't need to spend a top 100 pick on a RB. We very-well might...but we don't NEED to.

We sign a prototypical slot guy with great attributes for the position who has absolutely destroyed us in the past. Weakened our rival...replaced the guy who went off the reservation...and is very intriguing to think of with the other mismatches created by Gordon and Cameron. Now we don't NEED to spend a top 100 pick on a WR. It makes our serviceable, back-up WRs...well...serviceable backups. We very well might take a WR in the top 100...but we don't NEED to.

We signed a prototypical-for-our-scheme, blocking TE to play opposite our pro bowl receiving-threat TE. It makes our #3-TE-playing-as-a-#2-TE...well...a #3 TE. What a concept?

The biggest, best, and most-certain FA OL on the market has been offered a ridiculous-for-his-position contract by the new regime. An offer that NO ONE can trump. We will either get him for 2014 or he won't play anywhere in 2014. I'd say that that PLAN for our OL is a darn great plan. Do we need to get more/better OL? Sure we do...there are several guys in the draft who will fit in nicely and won't have to be day-1 saviors. What a terrible plan.

We knew that our backup QBs were awful. We got better just by getting them off the roster. Our division rival even picked one of them up to make them worse. We need another QB or two. We will certainly draft one in the top 100 picks...but we can decide which one of put top 100 picks to do so. We don't NEED to reach for a guy we don't rate as a top 5 guy.

We've used FA to get better starters in (3) positions...(5) if you consider slot WR and 2nd TE as starters. Those new starters/guys improved the DEPTH at those (5) positions by moving former-starters to backups.

We got rid of coaches, FO men, and players who were not accountable and were part of a losing culture...even if only here for a year. We have guys now who talk a much better game. They need to deliver...but the bar set by the previous guys is pretty darn low.

We have 10 draft picks in a ridiculously-deep draft. I don't know or see the plan for the draft yet. But my guess is we get a QB, OG, ILB, WR, and CB2 - not necessarily in that order - with our first 5 picks.

Plan? Yeah...it's RIGHT in front of our eyes. We shall see if it works or not...but it's clearly there.

JMO