|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205 |
I wonder if a team ever said they were going to match an offer and then didn't? Or should the Browns just assume he's gone and move on?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
Not sure Clay...I think they have 3 days to match the offer via the CBA for RFA contract signings. Transition is 5 so we know it won't be more than the transition tag. As for locking up money we might wish to use. We got so much Cap room it should not be an issue at all. The big offers are probably done, unless we got a future one with Revis.
jmho - but I thought somebody here reported that the Bengals matched it already??? Was that premature?
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,001
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,001 |
To me it shows we are prob not drafting a WR this year which is sad cause tehre are a ton of really good ones better than this guy prob.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864 |
Quote:
To me it shows we are prob not drafting a WR this year which is sad cause tehre are a ton of really good ones better than this guy prob.
How can you possibly derive that from this?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 293
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 293 |
Quote:
To me it shows we are prob not drafting a WR this year which is sad cause tehre are a ton of really good ones better than this guy prob.
Because they offered a slot receiver a contract it says they aren't drafting a WR?
Ok.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,554
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,554 |
Quote:
Quote:
So Edelman and Sanders are out there if they still want to pursue a slot WR.
We still have Cooper. I don't know if this was a play to get Cincy to cough up some dough. If they didn't get him, they still have Cooper. If they do, they have both him and Cooper.
That's getting a little deep there to think we are making offers just to make other teams pay their players more money.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
So Edelman and Sanders are out there if they still want to pursue a slot WR.
We still have Cooper. I don't know if this was a play to get Cincy to cough up some dough. If they didn't get him, they still have Cooper. If they do, they have both him and Cooper.
That's getting a little deep there to think we are making offers just to make other teams pay their players more money.
Yeah I seriously doubt we're being that careless. That doesn't fit who Ray Farmer is.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
Awesome, now it's time to spend that money on Vincent Rey or someone good.
Rey was an ERFA (like our Robertson) and has re-signed with Cincy, he's off the market.
Surprised that the Bengals want to match since they were to cheap to put the 2nd round tender at 2.1mil. Now, they want to match our offer? They tried to save 700k, now they have to pay over 1mil more and 4mil in guarantees.
Well, if we couldn't steal one of their WR talents, at least we messed up 1-2mil of their cap with the move.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,199
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,199 |
Quote:
yeah a lot of money for the 4 / 5th receiver on the roster,
he was listed as the 7th on their depth chart
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,199
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,199 |
Quote:
I wonder if a team ever said they were going to match an offer and then didn't? Or should the Browns just assume he's gone and move on?
we picked up a player in recent years that said they were going to match and decided not to.
I think it was a Ravens player?
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,001
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,001 |
well independent of taking one in the first round to be our #2 WR behind josh, you would normally draft a prospect wr to try him out in the slot first. IF we sign this guy with guaranteed money instead of a earn your spot contract with potential then we prob don't instead to draft one to take the spot and then cut this guy and be out the guaranteed money.
To be fair I guess I should have said I don't expect to draft a WR in rounds 2-4. I don't really even bother or care about scrubs we pick up later than that since its almost pure luck if they contribute(yes, I know there are always exceptions).
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,317
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,317 |
This is an incredibly deep WR draft class. Receivers with talent will be available in later rounds. For example there is no draft hype for Kevin Norwood.
Last edited by guard dawg; 03/12/14 11:54 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,984
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,984 |
Quote:
Quote:
I wonder if a team ever said they were going to match an offer and then didn't? Or should the Browns just assume he's gone and move on?
we picked up a player in recent years that said they were going to match and decided not to.
I think it was a Ravens player?
Chester Taylor?
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Is anyone else glad about this? I liked Hawkins, but I was a little underwhelmed. Sanders and Edelman, although probably more expensive, are available and more proven commodities. I would look to sign of those two now.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,199
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,199 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I wonder if a team ever said they were going to match an offer and then didn't? Or should the Browns just assume he's gone and move on?
we picked up a player in recent years that said they were going to match and decided not to.
I think it was a Ravens player?
Chester Taylor?
that's it... I was wrong he did sign but Baltimore matched.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
Is anyone else glad about this? I liked Hawkins, but I was a little underwhelmed. Sanders and Edelman, although probably more expensive, are available and more proven commodities. I would look to sign of those two now.
Edelman tends to drop too many and gets hurt too often. I'm not enamored with Sanders either.
In the end though, we are talking about slot WRs. you need to be quick, have good hands, and run good routes. there are many WRs who can handle it and we shouldn't have to overpay for one. heck, Benji might be able to come back and handle it.
our WR2 is coming from the draft IMO.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,739
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,739 |
Quote:
Is anyone else glad about this? I liked Hawkins, but I was a little underwhelmed. Sanders and Edelman, although probably more expensive, are available and more proven commodities. I would look to sign of those two now.
I'm not. I lived in the Cinci market for a long time. My brother who is much younger than me grew up a Cinci fan.
Both of us saw Hawkins play. Cinci is VERY deep at WR. Hawkins will be a great slot WR. Actually he is now. We would have been very lucky to get him. I believe he is every bit as talented to those you mentioned and would have been much cheaper.
I saw it as the first time Farmer saw a great value with a player that had been far less hyped and less expensive than others with almost the exact same skill set.
My brother is thrilled that Cinci plans to match the offer to keep Hawkins and I don't blame him.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
I wonder if a team ever said they were going to match an offer and then didn't? Or should the Browns just assume he's gone and move on?
I think that the Browns are going on the assumption that Hawkins is coming to the team until Cincy matches their offer. That is, I don't think they're looking to sign Edelman or anyone else until they know what the Hawkins deal is done one way or the other.
I like the move by the Browns. Hawkins could be very productive for the Browns and if the Bengals match the offer, they keep Hawkins but obviously, they sew him up for longer than they wanted and have to pay more than they intended.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
So Edelman and Sanders are out there if they still want to pursue a slot WR.
We still have Cooper. I don't know if this was a play to get Cincy to cough up some dough. If they didn't get him, they still have Cooper. If they do, they have both him and Cooper.
That's getting a little deep there to think we are making offers just to make other teams pay their players more money.
I'm not saying that was the only reason, but it was a calculated move. Do you think that these kind of offers aren't made with those thoughts in mind? It was a win-win for the Browns. They get a player they like for a reasonable cost to them or if they lose out on the player, it isn't a horrible thing to have a division rival shell out more than they wanted to so that they don't lose a player to a rival.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
So Edelman and Sanders are out there if they still want to pursue a slot WR.
We still have Cooper. I don't know if this was a play to get Cincy to cough up some dough. If they didn't get him, they still have Cooper. If they do, they have both him and Cooper.
That's getting a little deep there to think we are making offers just to make other teams pay their players more money.
Yeah I seriously doubt we're being that careless. That doesn't fit who Ray Farmer is.
Careless? Because they wouldn't mind having a player from a division rival that they think that they can use or if they lose out on acquiring the player, the rival has to pay more to keep the player.
I'm not saying that Farmer (and the coaches) doesn't like Hawkins. I'm saying that they do. Hence, the offer. But if Cincy matched it, the Bengals would be paying more than they wanted to keep the player.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,856
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,856 |
I get exactly what you are sayng Anarchy and I agree... I have quoted prices to a potential customer knowing they will take my price list and go to their current supplier who will match it to keep the business.
I have lost nothing, my competition gets to bleed a little,
Not saying that is the bottom line motivation, just a nice little added bonus if you lose the bid.
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
I get exactly what you are sayng Anarchy and I agree... I have quoted prices to a potential customer knowing they will take my price list and go to their current supplier who will match it to keep the business.
I have lost nothing, my competition gets to bleed a little,
Not saying that is the bottom line motivation, just a nice little added bonus if you lose the bid.
Exactly.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
Quote:
Quote:
Awesome, now it's time to spend that money on Vincent Rey or someone good.
Rey was an ERFA (like our Robertson) and has re-signed with Cincy, he's off the market.
Nothing that I found says that he's off the market. He was in the same position as Andrew Hawkins, but no one has offered him a contract yet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Bengals re-signed exclusive rights free agent LB Vincent Rey to a one-year, $630,000 contract. Rey recorded 22 tackles in 16 games mainly as a special teamer in 2012, and he'll revert back to that role this upcoming season while backing up the three linebacker spots. Thu, Mar 7, 2013 04:53:00 PM http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6106/vincent-rey...and NO, he was NOT in the same position as Hawkins. There's ERFA's and RFA's. Rey was an ERFA, Hawkins a RFA
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 582
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 582 |
Quote:
Awesome, now it's time to spend that money on Vincent Rey or someone good.
We have the $, Spend it , just wisely.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
Quote:
Bengals re-signed exclusive rights free agent LB Vincent Rey to a one-year, $630,000 contract.
Rey recorded 22 tackles in 16 games mainly as a special teamer in 2012, and he'll revert back to that role this upcoming season while backing up the three linebacker spots. Thu, Mar 7, 2013 04:53:00 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6106/vincent-rey
...and NO, he was NOT in the same position as Hawkins. There's ERFA's and RFA's. Rey was an ERFA, Hawkins a RFA
There's your problem. You're under the idea that Rey is a ERFA. To be an ERFA you have to have 2 years experience, Rey has 3. That makes him a RFA.
http://www.cincyjungle.com/2014/3/12/5500014/vincent-rey
He's yet to sign as of 10 AM today and I don't see why the Bengals would offer him a deal anyway. He's been tagged, but again, he's in the same position Hawkins is.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 582
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 582 |
Quote:
That's getting a little deep there to think we are making offers just to make other teams pay their players more money.
Peen, i agree, i think he really wanted the guy, but poaching your rival and making them overpay to keep him is a win for us. Not as good as having him, but not a loss either.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
You're right, my bad, I was mis-lead by the rotoworld player page, they're normally reliable with that stuff.
Well, if he's still out there, I'd def do the same with Rey. Similar player as Moats. Moats has a leg up due to the scheme knowledge, but Rey has more upside left I'd guess.. I'd be ok with any of the two...
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
It's cool. It happens to the best of us.
I'd take both, honestly. Then again, I don't view Moats highly at all. Weren't the Bills running a 4-1-6 and a 4-2-5 to avoid playing all linebackers not named Kiko Alonso?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
It's cool. It happens to the best of us.
I'd take both, honestly. Then again, I don't view Moats highly at all. Weren't the Bills running a 4-1-6 and a 4-2-5 to avoid playing all linebackers not named Kiko Alonso?
at times they did, and they also were playing alot more of Nigel Bradham by the end of the year to keep Moats on the bench.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
No way in the world do I believe we offered Hawkins that contract to make Cinci overspend. We wanted him. Period.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,165
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,165 |
Agreed, but it's both, I think. We wanted him, but the only way to get him is to make a deal that we believe they won't match, or if they do match, they'd be spending more than they want to. The money doesn't matter to us because we're flush with it.
It's a decent gamble if we feel he'll be a solid contributor.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
I was in agreement w/signing this guy. I just think we offered him that much money because we wanted him. I don't think we went in w/the thought of trying to stiff the Bengals w/a high contract.
I don't think NFL teams are as stupid as John Q. Public.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,856
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,856 |
that is really not what he meant at all.
More along the lines that if we lose the bid to sign him; then we have at least caused the Bengals to pony up some cash and use up cap space.
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Are you sure about that. Take another look. Quote:
I do think we stiffed the Bengals on this one. 4-yr, $12.2M offer sheet that includes $5.3M guaranteed?
We may have wanted him, but having to cough up that much money has be making Mike Brown crazy!
Bengals had extended to Hawkins $1.4M, one-year tender. Now he's on the hook to pay him $5.3M! I'll take that and chalk win for Mr. Farmer already! Making a division rival overpay. Excellent strategy.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 181
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 181 |
Quote:
I was in agreement w/signing this guy. I just think we offered him that much money because we wanted him. I don't think we went in w/the thought of trying to stiff the Bengals w/a high contract.
I don't think NFL teams are as stupid as John Q. Public.
Agree. I would be very disappointed if that was our approach to building a team.
I am disappointed Cinci will match, Loved the kids backstory and was excited to see him in a Browns uni. Didn't think he would be a 75 1000 yard type or consistent contributor but would give us a different dynamic on O. Our own Tavon Austin/ Percy Harvin type playmaker.
Will be routing for the kid 14 games a year now.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,551
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,551 |
You offer what you view as value. It s that simple. Only an idiot gets into a bidding war with another GM for a free agent, see Raiders and Redskins lol.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
lol posted this in the wrong thread (thanks Vers:P)
But I like this signing. With our salary cap space I think Hawkins is cheap. And after watching his limited highlights (he didn't get much time with Cinci) I am impressed. He is very much a yards after the catch type receiver. His hands look good. And I wouldnt be surprised to see him used out of the backfield. I think he would be a QB dream in that you could check down to him and know he will make some good yardage.
Then again he could turn out to be another Bess :P
Last edited by Dawg_down_Under; 03/12/14 08:35 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Yes sir. That is correct.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,856
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,856 |
Quote:
Are you sure about that. Take another look.
Quote:
I do think we stiffed the Bengals on this one. 4-yr, $12.2M offer sheet that includes $5.3M guaranteed?
We may have wanted him, but having to cough up that much money has be making Mike Brown crazy!
Bengals had extended to Hawkins $1.4M, one-year tender. Now he's on the hook to pay him $5.3M! I'll take that and chalk win for Mr. Farmer already! Making a division rival overpay. Excellent strategy.
Yeah I know what he wrote and how it reads, but I think my understanding of what he meant is correct, See my note about halfway up the page, really no biggie.
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Sign WR Andrew Hawkins
|
|
![[Linked Image from dcptest.com]](http://www.dcptest.com/kelly64.jpg)
