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Injury Prone? First I heard of that.
Now is the time to front load,,, if after two years he does not pan out then cut him with limited cap hit... if he does well we dangle a restructure in front of him
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Here is a video that I haven't seen posted anywhere. Practice footage of 1 on 1 drill with Hawkins. This kid is SICK. His route running is crazy. I'd love to see him and Haden match up...or Skrine since he's the quickest corner. https://www.youtube.com/v/wF7ZlsZJVsI&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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Sure, but if we were willing to front load on Hawkins...why not go for Golden Tate, who cost insignificantly more per season? He's the much better all around WR and offers more flexibility. If one of Gordon or whoever will line up at WR2 (anothe runsolved problem) misses time, guys like Hawkins and Edelman can NOT play outside. They simply suck there and won't see many passes thrown their way. It's bad managing/roster planing imho from a bang for buck, or "value" standpoint. OGs like Schwartz or Asamoah got LESS than this dude and we didn't even try to sign them and get involved, Both would have represented INSTANT upgrades at a need position. Instead we  the Bengals for a player who should be thought about in week two of FA or "think bold" wasting time on Revis who never wanted to come here and would have put us in a bad spot with a Haden re-signing anyway. To me that looks a lot like bad managing. This is starting to remind me a lot of last FA, when the former FO had a strong first day and then were busy patting their back the rest of the year for it. We have so much money and so many needs and some above AVG to good starters at need positions get fair or even low contracts...and we do nothing....probably already draft-fantasy plugging names on the depth chart instead of signing in their prime players  Meanwhile, guys like Ozzie and Reese are laughing their butts off at the stupidity around them and sign one good player after another at need positions with much less cap to work with. It's depressing...
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Is is a risky move but I'm not sure I'd call it a rookie GM move. I mean, don't the Browns want to make the early part of the deal a hinderance to the Bengals while affordable to Cleveland. I mean, what would be the point of signing him to the offer sheet if the Bengals can easily match.
Regardless, I think the life of the contract illustrates how much the Browns like Hawkins. I prefer him to Edelman..for similar reason mentioned by others, however, Hawkins is really light and small. Those guys do tend to get injured, which happened to him last year and probably a reason why it took a while for him to make it in the NFL.
Tackles are tackles.
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We could sign both but it would appear to be redundant.
well, getting one is redundant with Benjamin. getting both just likely means we are moving on from Travis.
Travis isn't a slot WR though so why redundant?
the only reason that Travis wasn't a slot WR is that his route running wasn't up to par. slot is where WRs of his skillset are most useful.
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Would you rather have Hawkins at 5.4mil over the next two seasons or Asamoah or Schwartz at 4mil or G.Tate at 6mil or Ward at the same 5.5mil etc etc
It's just stupid...we're talking PROVEN NFL vets, AllPro and SB winner vs a 28yo "maybe" who comes off an injury and showed some flashes two years ago.
It's a waste of early FA time and resources and thus makes it a stupid move in my opinion. To me this is as stupid as Dan Snyder's Lauvao signing...a gamble trying to be smart. We'rew buying HIGH and overshot too, bidding against ourselves. No way he can justify that contract by role alone...
...lots of hit and miss so far for me with Farmer. Wish we had a solid GM like Reese and Ozzie in here
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Here is a video that I haven't seen posted anywhere. Practice footage of 1 on 1 drill with Hawkins. This kid is SICK. His route running is crazy. I'd love to see him and Haden match up...or Skrine since he's the quickest corner.
https://www.youtube.com/v/wF7ZlsZJVsI&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Jesus, that is awesome.
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Would you rather have Hawkins at 5.4mil over the next two seasons or Asamoah or Schwartz at 4mil or G.Tate at 6mil or Ward at the same 5.5mil etc etc
How do you know they called the Agents to some of these guys and were told the players weren't interested in the Browns?
We have cap space, if you have to overpay a guy that makes the team better then I don't see what the big deal is and why this is a "rookie GM move". Like someone else said, now is the time we can afford that. Hell we can afford his contract and then some.
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Would you rather have Hawkins at 5.4mil over the next two seasons or Asamoah or Schwartz at 4mil or G.Tate at 6mil or Ward at the same 5.5mil etc etc
It's just stupid...we're talking PROVEN NFL vets, AllPro and SB winner vs a 28yo "maybe" who comes off an injury and showed some flashes two years ago.
It's a waste of early FA time and resources and thus makes it a stupid move in my opinion. To me this is as stupid as Dan Snyder's Lauvao signing...a gamble trying to be smart...lots of hit and miss so far for me with Farmer. Wish we had a solid GM like Reese and Ozzie in here
Let me preface my remarks by saying I like Hawkins a lot. When I lived in Cincinnati, I really liked his game and thought he was a legit playmaker for this team. But I also wanted Schwartz particularly for this zone blocking scheme and the possible storyline of him playing alongside his brother. Honestly, it's tough for me.
I want as many playmakers on this offense as possible. I think Hawkins can be that when healthy. But between the two (Hawkins and Schwartz) I would prefer the latter.
But I also look at guaranteed money for the other remaining guys.....$13.2M for Tate, $8M for Asamuah, and $4.8M for Hawkins. The $4.8M is essentially paid out all this year according to spotrac. (which also may be a deterring figure for the Bengals.) I prefer that amount for Hawkins and figuring out the slot more that the other two players because, at some point, we gotta stop using FA to fill EVERY hole and rely on draft and post June cuts to also help. I really feel the team is looking to the draft for the #2WR spot and at least one guard position as possible starters.
I think your TJ reference is irrelevant for this....it should be more aligned with the Whitner debate.
Tackles are tackles.
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For that money, he has to catch 60/750-850yds 3-6 TDs at least. Do you see that from him?
Yes I do. The depth chart in Cincy just didn't let him see the field that much. When he was targeted, he produced. He won't have the problem getting playing time here and the results will show.
If you want to talk about injuries. Edleman is the one I would worry about.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Would you rather have Hawkins at 5.4mil over the next two seasons or Asamoah or Schwartz at 4mil or G.Tate at 6mil or Ward at the same 5.5mil etc etc
How do you know they called the Agents to some of these guys and were told the players weren't interested in the Browns?
We have cap space, if you have to overpay a guy that makes the team better then I don't see what the big deal is and why this is a "rookie GM move". Like someone else said, now is the time we can afford that. Hell we can afford his contract and then some.
Ya, we really only know what the media is writing... we don't really know who all Farmer has been trying to sign. It's easy to look at these players and ask "why didn't we sign them!?!?"... well... there are quite a few other teams out there we are competing against... we really can't just sign whoever we want. Especially given the lack of stability... we know we have to pretty much overpay everyone. Don't think that is Farmer's fault. Blame Jimmy.
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We could sign both but it would appear to be redundant.
well, getting one is redundant with Benjamin. getting both just likely means we are moving on from Travis.
Travis isn't a slot WR though so why redundant?
the only reason that Travis wasn't a slot WR is that his route running wasn't up to par. slot is where WRs of his skillset are most useful.
Right, he doesn't run routes like an Edelman or Hawkins... so he's not a slot WR. Maybe if Hawkins/Edelmen is going to return punts too then we could drop Travis but I don't think Travis has been or ever will be considered for the slot so I don't see the redundancy there.
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I think we need a sticky thread entitled "Travis Benjamin is not, nor will he ever be, a slot WR"
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j/c
From what I saw from Benji, he doesn't like contact and I have never really seen him fight for the ball. I guess if he can outrun the coverage on a go route, you may have something.
I don't see him as a slot guy or a legit. #2. Actually I don't see him here at all. A cheap man's Tedd Ginn Jr. IMO
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Benjamin has speed, but not hands, haskins is a big upgrade from benji, i really hope cinci don't match, i much rather have hawkins in the slot than any wr thats left, edelman included, he worries me just because he doesn't have a history of producing and he plays with brady. But i like both as slot guys and both would be the best we've ever had here. I'm really suprised we didn't make a play for tate or decker with our grand canyon size hole at WR2. maybe they think they can get one in the draft.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Only reasons Travis may return would be he's cheap and we aren't exactly stacked with WR at the moment. That can (hopefully will) change as we get through FA and the draft. I agree that Travis could easily get his walking papers before the regular season begins (if not earlier) especially coming off that ACL injury... not sure he's worth a roster spot.
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Maybe they did make a play at Tate and/or Decker.... media doesn't know everything and just because we didn't sign them doesn't mean we didn't try. I think your suspicion about drafing one is probably right though. Draft is stacked with WRs this year and we have a ton of picks.
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jc
I like Benji. But not as a slot guy. Benjamin would get destroyed going over the middle.
He's great as a PR and can get down the field on deep routes. He's also shown to have pretty decent hands.
There is a place for him on this team in the WR corps, its just down at the bottom, like a 4th WR.
Tackles are tackles.
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okay. maybe he's young and can develop. his career stats aren't anything to look at. and he's flippin 5'7" tall. $13 million bucks?!? He was making $550k?!? why aren't we going after any of the young fast, better rated (scout.com) 6 foot + WR's?
Never have hope. You won’t be disappointed.
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My guess is we got our eye on a few in the draft.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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okay. maybe he's young and can develop. his career stats aren't anything to look at. and he's flippin 5'7" tall. $13 million bucks?!? He was making $550k?!? why aren't we going after any of the young fast, better rated (scout.com) 6 foot + WR's?
I would agree.
However, I keep in mind, just as with the draft - boy howdee - when we get someone it's all "he's awesome." Or "this guy/pick will turn the team around".
Face it - new coaches - people go gaga. Draft picks - people go gaga. Free agent signings - people go gaga. And, over the past 14 years? Yup. Nothing to be excited about.
I love the Browns - it's time for them to give me something other than what we've gotten.
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Would you rather have Hawkins at 5.4mil over the next two seasons or Asamoah or Schwartz at 4mil or G.Tate at 6mil or Ward at the same 5.5mil etc etc
It's just stupid...we're talking PROVEN NFL vets, AllPro and SB winner vs a 28yo "maybe" who comes off an injury and showed some flashes two years ago.
It's a waste of early FA time and resources and thus makes it a stupid move in my opinion. To me this is as stupid as Dan Snyder's Lauvao signing...a gamble trying to be smart. We'rew buying HIGH and overshot too, bidding against ourselves. No way he can justify that contract by role alone...
...lots of hit and miss so far for me with Farmer. Wish we had a solid GM like Reese and Ozzie in here
And how do you know that any of those players would even consider coming to Cleveland? Tate went to Detroit and never left. You say we could have signed them for what they got elsewhere like Cleveland is a prime spot. To get Golden Tate to sign here, where at the moment we don't HAVE a quarterback, would likely have cost TWICE what Detroit payed(they have a quarterback). If he even talked to us at all.
How do you know Schwartz fits our new blocking scheme? Or our plans in the draft? None of us know the reasoning behind Farmer and Pettine's moves. Hell, maybe we're going to move OUR Schwartz inside to guard and take a RT in the draft. Maybe they have their eyes on a couple guards in the draft that are perfect for our new offense. Maybe they plan on taking Watkins in the draft and Tate would be superfluous. Why not give these guys a chance before knocking moves that you don't know the reasoning behind.....
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Are you sure about that. Take another look.
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I do think we stiffed the Bengals on this one. 4-yr, $12.2M offer sheet that includes $5.3M guaranteed?
We may have wanted him, but having to cough up that much money has be making Mike Brown crazy!
Bengals had extended to Hawkins $1.4M, one-year tender. Now he's on the hook to pay him $5.3M! I'll take that and chalk win for Mr. Farmer already! Making a division rival overpay. Excellent strategy.
Vers, Texas is right, that is exactly what meant. 1) get a good player but if you can't, at least 2) stiff your division rival.
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I think Djang is getting as bad as Vers. Any move they make is thrown under the bus before the ink dries.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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jc
I like Benji. But not as a slot guy. Benjamin would get destroyed going over the middle.
He's great as a PR and can get down the field on deep routes. He's also shown to have pretty decent hands.
There is a place for him on this team in the WR corps, its just down at the bottom, like a 4th WR.
I agree. He's too diminutive to play the slot every down. He's a very good fit as a 4th receiver and one HELL of a punt returner. Reminds me a little bit of the Ice Cube. Blazing fast but tiny....
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I wonder if we will try to get Edelman as well? Would like to have both.
Would Hawkins be our #2 WR or would he play in the slot?
I actually think that they could move Cameron out to a flanker position. 
My guess is that if Hawkins comes here, the chances that the front office being convinced of taking Watkins at #4 are zero. I actually think they're zero right now, but I think it becomes absolutely zero if Hawkins comes to Cleveland.
This upsets the mock draft apple cart like nobody's business.
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Would you rather have Hawkins at 5.4mil over the next two seasons or Asamoah or Schwartz at 4mil or G.Tate at 6mil or Ward at the same 5.5mil etc etc
It's just stupid...we're talking PROVEN NFL vets, AllPro and SB winner vs a 28yo "maybe" who comes off an injury and showed some flashes two years ago.
It's a waste of early FA time and resources and thus makes it a stupid move in my opinion. To me this is as stupid as Dan Snyder's Lauvao signing...a gamble trying to be smart. We'rew buying HIGH and overshot too, bidding against ourselves. No way he can justify that contract by role alone...
...lots of hit and miss so far for me with Farmer. Wish we had a solid GM like Reese and Ozzie in here
And how do you know that any of those players would even consider coming to Cleveland? Tate went to Detroit and never left. You say we could have signed them for what they got elsewhere like Cleveland is a prime spot. To get Golden Tate to sign here, where at the moment we don't HAVE a quarterback, would likely have cost TWICE what Detroit payed(they have a quarterback). If he even talked to us at all.
How do you know Schwartz fits our new blocking scheme? Or our plans in the draft? None of us know the reasoning behind Farmer and Pettine's moves. Hell, maybe we're going to move OUR Schwartz inside to guard and take a RT in the draft. Maybe they have their eyes on a couple guards in the draft that are perfect for our new offense. Maybe they plan on taking Watkins in the draft and Tate would be superfluous. Why not give these guys a chance before knocking moves that you don't know the reasoning behind.....
the voice of reason... We have got to get off this every FA we don't sign that would have filled a need was ignored by the FO,
It isn't just as easy as picking up a phone and saying come to Cleveland, if it was Ward would still be here and Mack would not have one foot on the train out of town, it takes two to make a deal
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I think Djang is getting as bad as Vers. Any move they make is thrown under the bus before the ink dries.
Yeah, that's probably why I give Farmer mad props for how he has handled the Mack negotiations and getting Dansby.
I just compare what he does/deson't with what I wanted to see and posted, as always and in detail well in advance of the start of FA, that's my opinion (feel free to check the "Mock Offseason" thread).
It's day 3 of FA and we haven't filled a need we had before the start of it and still sit on 40mil. I didn't like that approach the two seasons before and was vocal about it too under Heckert and Banner, which lead to a 9-23 record, and like it even less now. The starters market is drying up and we get cute with a RFA backup WR from the Bengals instead of finally signing proven NFL players. I can't remember a FA with so many of them around and the prices are mostly fair, at least not as crazy as I expected, especially at OG and WR...you know, two MAJOR NEED positions. We did nothing and I don't like it. That's my opinion.
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Here is a video that I haven't seen posted anywhere. Practice footage of 1 on 1 drill with Hawkins. This kid is SICK. His route running is crazy. I'd love to see him and Haden match up...or Skrine since he's the quickest corner.
https://www.youtube.com/v/wF7ZlsZJVsI&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Jesus, that is awesome.
Nice video. Hope it translates to Sunday's!
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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j/c:
A few thoughts after reading all those posts:
--No way do we sign both Hawkins and Edelman. They play the same position.
--Benji can't play the slot. He is a terrible route runner and the slot guy should be your best route runner. He also isn't tough enough and doesn't have good enough hands. He is a situational WR and return guy.
--Seems like there was some misinformation out there from the media.
--I like Hawkins' potential.
--It seems like we gave him too much money. Why not offer that money to a guard or RT?
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Why not offer that money to a guard or RT?
We can. We have TONS of money, still.... I'm just not sure there are any G's or RT's out there worth even half that money.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I call BS on that....no player, especially the likes of Schwartz and G.Tate who might see only one fat contract in their career would pass up even 500k more/year. That's 2-3mil over 4-5years. Those guys aren't stupid.
Then why did Whitner and Dansby, who have a much bigger rep, sign with us if it's "so hard" to lure FAs to CLE? Pure BS apologetics. Money talks. We never got involved with those FAs for whatever reasons. From my view, we whiffed on the priority level. We went after an RFA, which could have waited, and the "big name CB" instead. Any GM/FO only has so much time on the first day to convince player's of their interest. We got cute and megalomaniac instead of being reasonable, you know? what good GMs like Ozzie and Reese do...they signed better players with less cap and lesser needs to fill. It's depressing to see this movie every freaking FA
Also, if you think a 3rd round OG will be better than one of the KC guys, good luck with that. Been there done that, failed. Remember how McFadden was supposed to compete for CB2? Great story wasn't it? He got lucky he ended up the 4th CB because we had no one else to push him from there
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j/c:
--It seems like we gave him too much money. Why not offer that money to a guard or RT?
Agree 100%.. then again it took $17 mil for Lava.. what is $12 going to get ya... Seriously my only real concern so far... we need OL help and haven't seen our name connected with anybody... yet.
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Hawkins looks exciting, but what's your take on that contract?
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Here is a video that I haven't seen posted anywhere. Practice footage of 1 on 1 drill with Hawkins. This kid is SICK. His route running is crazy. I'd love to see him and Haden match up...or Skrine since he's the quickest corner.
https://www.youtube.com/v/wF7ZlsZJVsI&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Jesus, that is awesome.
Nice video. Hope it translates to Sunday's!
Do not understand your logic one little iota.
Ward - FA - Gone (seems to me he didn't want to be here). Safety is a need. We sign an upgrade over Ward. Need filled + suad improved.
DQ - Due $8 million and playing as a 3-4 does not suit his best skill-set. Gone. Signed Dansby - upgraded coverage, gave nothing away in physicality - a 3-4 LB. Still a need - but we got better.
WR - a HUGE need. Josh Gordon and .... No-one .... Now we have a slot receiver. need filled. Still would like a #2 signed. Maybe Little can be a #2???? Maybe it's Watkins.
Need a RB, an upgrade at OG and a starting CB opposite Haden. Maybe a developmental QB or heck even a QB at #4 who competes with Hoyer.
I have no problems with what they have done and I am very encouraged that the new FO is making use of our current cap space and signing players to front loaded contracts.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,990 Likes: 9
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,990 Likes: 9 |
I dont think this signing effects drafting watkins at all. It effects who we would take a shot at in rounds 2-4. He is a #3WR who is an ankle breaker, as in, he changes direction so fast he makes DB break thier ankles to keep up with him =)
Little over priced I think but front loading is a nice touch cause he will be cheap as hell the rest of his contract when we might need that cap money.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,838 Likes: 107
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,838 Likes: 107 |
Or run double slot or two on the same slot. Shanahan might like it short yardage opposite Gordon. Just get them. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635 |
Quote:
Here is a video that I haven't seen posted anywhere. Practice footage of 1 on 1 drill with Hawkins. This kid is SICK. His route running is crazy. I'd love to see him and Haden match up...or Skrine since he's the quickest corner.
https://www.youtube.com/v/wF7ZlsZJVsI&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Very impressive. I like his cut-n-go acceleration. Made the back trip and fall more than a few times. Cheers for the video man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,976 Likes: 356
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,976 Likes: 356 |
Quote:
Quote:
Here is a video that I haven't seen posted anywhere. Practice footage of 1 on 1 drill with Hawkins. This kid is SICK. His route running is crazy. I'd love to see him and Haden match up...or Skrine since he's the quickest corner.
https://www.youtube.com/v/wF7ZlsZJVsI&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Jesus, that is awesome.
Wow! I love his change of direction. He broke some ankles in that video. lol
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,915 Likes: 16
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,915 Likes: 16 |
Quote:
Then why did Whitner and Dansby, who have a much bigger rep, sign with us if it's "so hard" to lure FAs to CLE?
For one thing we have a defensive coach. Whitner is a Cleveland boy. His family is here. Not too hard to see why he'd want to be close to them.
Signing a top wide out on the other hand might be more difficult considering our only quarterback at the moment is a perennial backup coming off major knee surgery.
But yeah man, I can certainly see a guy like Tate, coming off a Super Bowl win, wanting to sign with a team that has no quarterback(for an extra 500,000). 5-11 is VERY alluring to guys coming off a SB.
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Sign WR Andrew Hawkins
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