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That would be good news




Depends on the committment in years and guaranteed money.

Gerhart, D.Brown and Jennings, who are comparable in age/experience and status (backups who have shown capable of being more) got 3.5mil/year with only 3-4.5mil in guaranteed money.

With that said, anything more than 4years, 16mil, 6mil guaranteed would be too much imho


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JC

I like the idea of signing Tate to a single year, non lavish contract and let him prove himself that he can play a full season, be productive, not get injured and so forth. At the point of paying him large amount of money over multiple years, I think I'd rather look at the big bruiser style backs in the draft then.

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j/c..
1. yes, I was big on Dontay Moch...thought a no brainer he would be good. Didn't know about his drugs and too bad about the injuries. All depends if he's hit rock bottom and wants to work himself up to reach some of his potential. Edge Pass Rushers I'd take a roster spot in camp. Obviously it would have to be a Show ME contract.

2. Texas...Ben Tate... Doh! He was the only RB most thought heck from mid season last year that we would go after. I wanted McFadden but that is ok. It would be a good signing - we got smallish backs and need that short yardage guy who can take most of the first n second down reps.

We've been very busy.

FA winning championships...look at the Broncos....? Broncos time is now and not too much longer - they got to the SB last season - Manning aint going to be there long the window is small for them to get it then they will get rid of most of these FA and do a rebuild.
We haven't made the blockbuster deals but we have done a very solid fill the holes FA period so far. Only obtaining an OG and there really weren't that much out there. I mean the best OG as it looks might have been Lava in the FA market

But I really like what we are doing - no UDFA talent being the main depth that we got especially in the DB...haven't looked but did we sign Carlos CB? somebody told me last night???


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Free agent RB Ben Tate is in Cleveland today visiting with the #Browns, league source told http://cleveland.com . postponed Wed by weather.

https://twitter.com/MaryKayCabot/status/444268089803563008




Really?

Is Farmer a guy who overvalues skill players and doesn't value trench players?




Yep, clearly. I mean, we have no depth on the defensive line and he didn't tag our center for 10 million in hopes that a team offers him a long term contract we can match or something.

I also don't get why he wanted Tate, I mean, our running game was so good last year.




LOL




Ah, man! Why the baiting?....


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He is definitely meeting. I am just saying that the guy you quoted isn't very reputable.




more reputable people are starting to tweet about it with big followings on twitter


here is one...

https://twitter.com/incarceratedbob
Incarcerated Bob IBN ‏@incarceratedbob 1h

**BREAKING NFL NEWS**Source: All signs point to (RB) Ben Tate n Cleveland Browns having a deal in principle barring any late contract snags




I like Bob, I think he has sometimes good insight on things. Other times I think he throws stuff at the wall to see if it sticks. He said Peyton Manning was going to retire earlier this year.

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Chris Johnson willing to take a pay cut to facilitate a trade

Anyone?




He'd be someone to look into I'd think. Although really his production levels have kind of slipped his name outta the spotlight. With that said and as far as I know, he's had nothing but 1000+ yard seasons. He had that 2000 yard season in 2009 or 2010 and everyone wants/expects that kind of yards every season thereafter.

How much is he willing to slice and cut back on that 8 million for an organization such as the Browns? Likely, not much so I don't expect anything involving Browns and Johnson to come about.

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since Tate may sign today:



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Johnson is a whiny punk.

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Nine Mistakes GMs Will Make

That’s a pretty bold statement. It includes the word “will” not “may” or “could” and the reason is that history has a habit of repeating itself – over and over again.

Out in the real world, at the end of significant pieces of work, good Project Managers run something called post completion reviews (PCRs) to try and ensure they learn from their mistakes (and successes). What went well, what less so and why? They then put processes in place to try and mitigate against those same issues recurring – continuous improvement loops. In football, with particular regard to the draft and free agency, such exercises are in short supply.

The limited tenure of certain regimes, the lack of accurate, precise and reliable measures of success and, in certain cases, the lack of desire to even contemplate the word “mistake” make for an annual extravaganza that, in the case of some transactions, has all the appeal of a car crash in slow motion.

So what are the lessons of history with regard to free agency and how can they be avoided? The errors can normally be categorized as follows:

Mistake No. 1 – Paying substantially on the basis of performance in a contract year

We see it happen many times. For the first few years of a guy’s career he does nothing and then, with only a year to go before potentially the most lucrative contract of his life, he suddenly plays well. In some cases better than well, and everyone asks “Where the hell did that come from?”

Teams are left wondering did the light suddenly just come on or, far more worryingly, was this a last ditch attempt to cash in and will his performance degenerate once a big money contract in his pocket weighs him down? However, giving the guy the benefit of the doubt isn’t the issue. Paying him as if he’d played every year of his career at that level is.

In 2008 the Atlanta Falcons made a first round selection of Sam Baker, signed him to a five-year contract and patiently waited for him to become their franchise left tackle. After four years of either poor play or injury, in his contract year of 2012 he finally played well. A +12.5 grade from us was his best performance by some margin but still saw him rank only 18th among his peers. Regardless, the Falcons paid him as if that production was his annual average and not the high-water mark with a Top-15 salary. The most recent results? Two games of completely abysmal play where he allowed 16 quarterback disruptions before going out with injury yet again.

Mistake No. 2 – Ignoring what the current team is implicitly telling you

It’s one thing to let a 32-year-old wide receiver go (as the Ravens did when they mistakenly traded Anquan Boldin to the 49ers). It’s quite another to allow a 27-year-old pass rusher to leave in what should be the prime of his career. Make no mistake, Baltimore would have liked to have Paul Kruger back, but not at $8.1M APY.

There are few shrewder operators than Ozzie Newsome and what he knew was that Kruger was a reasonable but not great pass rusher. The gaudy sack numbers (15) looked good but he knew what we saw in our grading; when Terrell Suggs was on the field alongside him he rated an excellent +13.1, but when Suggs was out injured for seven games, a less-than-stellar +3.1. How did he do once he signed his Browns deal? He graded +4.9, a number remarkably similar to his rating without Suggs. Essentially that grade says what he is; a slightly above average, complementary, not star rusher. The deal he got is only $900k per year less than Robert Mathis and about twice what his production warrants.

Mistake No. 3 – Paying Based on a former association with a key decision maker.

In 2010 the Chicago Bears decided they needed a blocking tight end and new Offensive Coordinator Mike Martz was high on Brandon Manumaleuna. Manumaleuna had played for Martz in St. Louis between 2001 and 2005 and built a reputation as a versatile player who could run block very well; indeed in 2008 he was our fourth-rated run-blocking tight end. However, in 2009, he looked a different beast, average at best without showing anything of his previous dominating form.

Did the Bears watch his 2009 tape and if so, did they see what we did or perhaps what they wanted to see? Given they signed him to a $15M, five-year deal it appears they either didn’t agree with our assessment or chose to go on previous experience.

After a year in which he became our lowest-rated player at the position (largely predicated on his work as a blocker), he was released costing the Bears $6.1M in the process; the guaranteed money from his deal.

Mistake No. 4 – Putting all your chips into Free Agency

Has there ever been a free agency splurge that worked out well? The most recent example of this was the Dolphins last year who signed 10 new players and extended two (one of whom was Reshad Jones in a scenario eerily reminiscent of the type I describe in “Mistake 1”) as Jeff Ireland looked to turn the tide in Miami.

This year, in terms of APY, six of the current seven highest paid players were signed during that time with the total cost a staggering $46M APY for 2014 alone.

No question some of these moves were high quality; Brent Grimes was our top-rated corner in free agency last year and backed it up with fine play in 2013, while I also liked the Brandon Gibson pick-up. However, all of wide receiver Mike Wallace, linebacker Dannell Ellerbe and linebacker Philip Wheeler were significantly overpaid (Wallace grossly so) and the Dolphins’ linebacker play (particularly in coverage) regressed markedly.

Mistake No. 5 – Giving too much weight to performance against your team

Maybe the evidence here is circumstantial, but I still see the Colts’ move to bring in Erik Walden last year as an example of this behavior. During both 2012 and 2013 Walden was our lowest-rated 3-4 OLB while playing for Green Bay. Most of this was based on a somewhat startling inability to get pressure, but it really wasn’t offset by a “Jarret Johnson type” skill set in the running game, either. For whatever reason the Indianapolis Colts targeted him as a bookend for Robert Mathis and, to be fair, his performance, although never coming close to his $4M APY, improved significantly to a level best described as “below average”.

So why do I feel this falls into the category above? Well here are his weekly grades during 2012


The Week 5 performance was against the Colts no less, and don’t forget their advanced scout would almost certainly have included his games in Weeks 2 and 3.

Mistake No. 6 – Subset Scouting

The Pro Personnel guys in the NFL have it hard. The department is usually a fraction of the size of the college team and their work during the season is often limited to the teams they have to play and even then, based on a subset of four games. The workload is enormous and the notion of watching every player on every play an impossible dream. During Free Agency, therefore, a lot of the analysis is based on incomplete data; extrapolations based on the information they do have. As we have shown many times (here, for example), this approach can be problematic.

When the Cowboys decided to pay Nate Livings $7M APY they watched seven or eight games or less than half the available data for 2011. They chose what was, on the face of it, the harder matchups… against Justin Smith, Haloti Ngata, Calais Campbell, etc. However, just like them, we had these games graded highly, but they never saw his struggles against lesser opponents like Jacksonville and Cleveland.

In this case Livings actually improved his average performance before injury struck, but it was still well south of the dollar value paid. Would they have still paid that amount if they had seen his other, poorer performances?

Mistake No. 7 – Paying based on potential, not production

As an NFL agent once told me if a team asks a guy to do something one hundred times and he manages if once in those repetitions, there are far too many coaches who think, under their guidance, they can move that number to one hundred. The truth is that what you see, particularly in free agency, is mostly what you get. If anything, the additional money means more players regress than improve.

Look, there is no one who watched Jared Cook in training camp last year who could come away unimpressed with his talent, but the fact remains in his four years in Tennessee he averaged just over 350 snaps a season and never graded higher than a +0.7. No one I know would disagree he was criminally underused during that period but still, $7M APY is a huge amount of money to pay for potential. I really hope this one works out as watching the guy at the top of his game is a real privilege, but I have a terrible, nagging suspicion the real player has already stood up.

Mistake No. 8 – Watching the box scores

Everyone likes a good stat and even NFL scouts can sometimes be bewitched by bright, shiny numbers.

Case in point a certain Joey Porter in 2008 and 2009. A Pro Bowl and 26.5 sacks looked pretty on the face of it but something else lurked beneath the surface. Porter was particularly poor against the run in 2008 as he played pass on almost every down, and had a real lack of other pressure to go with the sacks in both years. Each season also featured a precipitous fall in performance down the stretch. So despite all the flashy numbers his pass rushing grade over the period still came out a well below average -10.2 and his overall a distinctly poor -27.5.

The rest is history as Porter signed for $8.1M APY in 2010 and managed another six sacks over two seasons to end his career. Each of those sacks ended up costing $2.85M.

Mistake No. 9 – Failing to Play in Free Agency at all

Some teams, like the Steelers, have a reputation for not giving Free Agency much prominence. There’s a lot to be said for the draft in terms of value for money but, if teams do their work properly, there are real bargains to be had, particularly on the O-Line. Every year it seems quality players drift about before someone lucks out by signing them as a back-up, having an injury, playing them and realising they had a much better player than they thought.

In 2009 (before anyone else had even heard of him) we graded Evan Mathis as the fifth-best guard in the league before injury and a strange rotation with Nate Livings in 2010 saw him enter free agency as something of a mystery to every NFL team. We still had him rated as the fourth-best interior lineman in that free agency class but, as it transpired, anyone could have had him for the veteran minimum as teams just seemed to ignore the tape.

It turns out we had it wrong too, he turned into the best guard in the league and probably the best value for money signing that entire year. He’s now rightly an All-Pro but his $5M APY is still peanuts for a player of his ability and as good a reason as any to play the game called Free Agency.

Keep up with all of this year’s free agency moves with the PFF Free Agency tracker.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/03/10/nine-mistakes-gms-will-make/


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He's a little stiff in the hips but he has good vision. Not top end speed but enough to be successful. He is certainly an upgrade over anyone we have on the roster.

The only issue I have with that video is that he is facing the Titans and Jacksonville in most of them. Gaping holes, bad tackling, bad angles etc.

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Very few of those plays were on his own effort. I saw a lot of massive holes that any back could run through. Big Phil Taylor hustling down the field sighting around 2:45, awesome when I see a 330+ lb'er run like that

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I agree with what is being said, he has good vision but can be too deliberate at times. Texans OL was a nice run-blocking unit, which helped.

One thing to note too though, he is very good at avoiding direct contact unless necessary.


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Nice to see the outside zone blocking scheme at work. Always outside in.

Excellent vision and immediate vision of course highlights so we don't get to see the bone head reads....lol

He did run erect throughout - but has excellent power and speed - power in stiff arm and lifting legs to get to the end zone. Good explosion...not run away speed but good enough. We are going to need 2 seasons of most of the OL in tact to get to that kind of precision in our blocking. But I do like the system.

jmho a good addition if it comes to fruition.
Now did we sign Carlos Rogers??? Haven't seen it anywhere here. Had Steeler fan over last night for football meeting but all he did was cry about the Browns getting better and told me we signed Rogers and Whitner...I was like Rogers...didn't know that.


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He probably confused Karlos Dansby with Carlos Rogers.


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yeah he is a Steeler fan....lol


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jc

Wouldn't it be better to just use a lower round draft pick on an RB?

Costs less and if he's affective plays longer.

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jc

Wouldn't it be better to just use a lower round draft pick on an RB?

Costs less and if he's affective plays longer.




Tate is a known commodity. You know what you get. Drafting a late RB, you're not certain to get a guy who can play. Of all teams we should know that.

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Quote:

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jc

Wouldn't it be better to just use a lower round draft pick on an RB?

Costs less and if he's affective plays longer.




Tate is a known commodity. You know what you get. Drafting a late RB, you're not certain to get a guy who can play. Of all teams we should know that.




Agreed. He is a known commodity at a position we desperately need to upgrade. Hopefully, the price will be right. Also, I don't think this stops us from drafting a RB in the mid rounds. Im not impressed with Baker, Whittaker and indifferent w/ Oby. Dion Lewis as the possible Sproles is intriguing to me but we need a rotation of legit RBs IMO.


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Quote:

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jc

Wouldn't it be better to just use a lower round draft pick on an RB?

Costs less and if he's affective plays longer.




Tate is a known commodity. You know what you get. Drafting a late RB, you're not certain to get a guy who can play. Of all teams we should know that.


Yea I know, but we've also had know commodities who don't play to well in this uniform.

I just worry that they pay too much for someone to collect a paycheck.

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Yup. Do both. Plus bring in UDFA's.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

jc

Wouldn't it be better to just use a lower round draft pick on an RB?

Costs less and if he's affective plays longer.




Tate is a known commodity. You know what you get. Drafting a late RB, you're not certain to get a guy who can play. Of all teams we should know that.


Yea I know, but we've also had know commodities who don't play to well in this uniform.

I just worry that they pay too much for someone to collect a paycheck.




IMO, fans get too worried about what guys get paid. Who cares? We have the cap, we haven't used the cap in forever. I for one am so glad we are finally using the cap instead of sitting on it.

Worst case scenario is what? We are up against it and have to cut guys like Tate/Hawkings/Kruger to sign Haden? I'm not seeing the downside. I could not care less if Haslam has to eat 40 million dollars.

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I agree completely. As long as the deal we give someone doesn't hurt us down the road, then who really cares what the actual numbers are? It doesn't matter what they are if we can afford it without putting ourselves in a bind later.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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j/c

Anybody know if we signed Moats the LB from Buffalo? I know hours before the free agency period started that the NFL network was reporting that it was to be one of the expected announcements once free agency officially began. Yet, I've heard nothing more about it.


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Yup, I dont get the obsession with it either.

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Washington to release center Will Montgomery. Thankfully they got Lava man (at 17mil) lmao.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/14/redskins-to-release-center-will-montgomery/

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They are saving 1.6 mil hmmm Oh Oh they are making room for an offer to Mack


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I have no idea. I don't see him listed on NFL.com's Free Agency Tracker, which lists the Top 50 available.


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I was wondering. NFL Network was making like it was a done deal just couldn't be official till the start of free agency but then I've heard absolutely nothing since.


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We must be a shoe-in for Moats just like we were for Byrd.

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so Tate's meeting is extended to today.


http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2014/03/13...2tTSi3Q.twitter


some


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and the Browns are getting lambasted because they put a poll up on the site to vote if the Browns should sign tate.


http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/fans-and-kids/promotions/TateVsRookies.html


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49ers are comfortable with Chris Culliver and Tramaine Brock as the starters, and they're willing to pay Tarell Brown 3 yrs/$10M per source.

https://twitter.com/MaioccoCSN

Why don't we offer Brown 3y/12mil already?

Here's what PFF has to say about him:

Carlos Rodgers is more of a household name in the 49ers’ secondary, but Tarell Brown has been San Francisco’s best cornerback over the last couple of years. In 2012 he finished with the fourth-highest coverage grade at +12.8. He was a little banged up at times in 2013 but still rebounded and was the niners’ top corner down the stretch and in the playoffs.

With San Francisco working on a deal for Anquan Boldin and trying to extend Colin Kaepernick, Brown should be able to test the market.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/20/ranking-the-2014-free-agents-cornerbacks/


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and the Browns are getting lambasted because they put a poll up on the site to vote if the Browns should sign tate.


http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/fans-and-kids/promotions/TateVsRookies.html




They had a similar poll when it was said we were trying to get Revis. These are the social media guys, not the front office.

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Quote:

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and the Browns are getting lambasted because they put a poll up on the site to vote if the Browns should sign tate.


http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/fans-and-kids/promotions/TateVsRookies.html




They had a similar poll when it was said we were trying to get Revis. These are the social media guys, not the front office.




I completely get that... everyone on twitter was saying the the FO is undecided/incompetent to make a decision so they are leaving it up to everyone else LMAO. (I don't think that)

You only get kicked when you are down. HOpefully, we can get rid of this negative stigma soon and people will think these things are positive.


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Ben Tate ‏@BenTateRB 39m

It's Friday what y'all got planned for this weekend?

he's out of his meeting... hopefully we will hear some news in the near future.

https://twitter.com/search?q=ben%20tate&src=typd


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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Free agent RB Ben Tate is in Cleveland today visiting with the #Browns, league source told http://cleveland.com . postponed Wed by weather.

https://twitter.com/MaryKayCabot/status/444268089803563008




Really?

Is Farmer a guy who overvalues skill players and doesn't value trench players?




Yep, clearly. I mean, we have no depth on the defensive line and he didn't tag our center for 10 million in hopes that a team offers him a long term contract we can match or something.

I also don't get why he wanted Tate, I mean, our running game was so good last year.




LOL




Ah, man! Why the baiting?....




? not sure what you mean..


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Broncos fee-agent CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie is scheduled to fly to New York tonight to meet with the Jets, per team source.




Adam Schefter, Twitter

I am not sure what we are waiting for with these corners. Clearly they think we need another corner, we went after Revis. But Revis is the only corner we have been linked to at all.

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Trufant is a CB!!!!


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A 4th/5th CB. He's going to replace that terrible FA we brought in last offseason.

We need a #2.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Im well aware of that oobs, just picking on cfrs15 a bit.


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