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jc
I went to the Jags board to see if they had any new perspective or any rumors, but man, they're really butt rustled about the Browns. Going over there you would think it was us that will be moving their team.
Out of curiosity I went there to read the thread. Wow.
A lot are buying into the "Mack doesn't want to be in Cleveland" spin and that their organization would be a good way for him to get away from the losing and instability. Wait until they move to London.
Some good stuff on there. One poster is designing poison pills, another thought the offer sheet was to Khalil Mack (we're doing that with college players now?), and there is still complaining about the hail Mary pass that led to us beating them.
There are some sensible ones, though.
A couple like our board. They find some of our stuff good and some funny, because we allow "fowl" language.
Cluck, cluck.
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I think anything is possible when it's a back room deal. Out in the open, I'm not sure that would happen, but behind closed doors in a smoke filled room, sure. Although, to be honest, I don't see the value in it.
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jc Browns reportedly to match Alex Mack offer sheet Quote:
Browns reportedly to match Alex Mack offer sheet
90
By Kevin Patra
Around the League writer
Published: April 10, 2014 at 07:55 a.m.
Updated: April 10, 2014 at 01:26 p.m.
Alex Mack agreed to terms on an offer sheet with the Jacksonville Jaguars, but that doesn't mean he'll be changing addresses.
Once the center signs the offer sheet, the Cleveland Browns figure to match the five-year deal "in no time at all," ESPN reported Thursday morning.
Free-Agent Tracker
Follow all the developments on the NFL's open market with our up-to-the-minute tracking of 2014's free agents. More...
The idea the Browns will match is not new. A report last week stated the team would match an offer "in a second" and owner Jimmy Haslam hinted as much earlier this week.
The only pause in the discussion came Wednesday amid reports that Mack really wanted out of Cleveland. NFL Media columnist Michael Silver reported that the Browns told Mack when initially slapping him with the transition tag that they wouldn't hold him hostage if he wanted to leave.
One big reveal in the ordeal will be the details of the offer sheet Mack is poised to sign. ProFootballTalk reported the deal would pay out "roughly $18 million to $20 million" guaranteed in the first two seasons. Given that number, it would be a no-brainer for the Browns to match -- they'd be getting him cheaper than if they paid the transition and franchise tag the next two seasons.
The report also added an interesting nugget: The offer sheet includes a clause allowing the player to void the deal after two seasons.
If true, that is a big indicator Mack's camp believes the Browns will match the offer. The player wants the power to test free agency again in short order if new Browns coach Mike Pettine's regime ends as swiftly as all others have during Mack's time in Cleveland.
We could be staring at a rerun of the "Alex Mack Football Saga" in 2016. Can't wait.
I do not recall these type of comments I've highlighted above... does anyone else?
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I posted this this morning DLB
Anyway, those comments aren't directly attributed to Mack. In fact, nobody has yet been able to show me a quote by either Mack or one of his agents saying he doesn't want to be in Cleveland. So to me, until Mack says it, it's suspect.
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I think anything is possible when it's a back room deal. Out in the open, I'm not sure that would happen, but behind closed doors in a smoke filled room, sure. Although, to be honest, I don't see the value in it.
Didn't the owners meeting just conclude? I'm not sure there is smoke but doors are closed!
Doesn't anyone think it is odd Jacksonville wanting to sign Mack to a multi-year above and beyond contract on a center? It would make Mack the highest paid OL on Jacksonville. Since Khan bought the club, Jaguars haven't done nearly as many bone-head moves as in the past. This Mack deal seems very strange.
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Wow, that never entered my mind. I really dont see them doing this.
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Yes the doors were closed and no, there probably wasn't much smoke, but the deal you suggest, I'm sorry man, I don't see that as anything the owners would do.
Maybe the GM's? I don't know
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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Isn't Jacksonville a candidate to move the franchise to LA, Mack could keep his surf board right there in SOCAL, now there is a back room deal.
GO BROWNS!
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Quote:
Just saw this and I apologize if it's already been posted...
Quote:
Browns reportedly to match Alex Mack offer sheet
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The only pause in the discussion came Wednesday amid reports that Mack really wanted out of Cleveland. NFL Media columnist Michael Silver reported that the Browns told Mack when slapping him with the transition tag that they wouldn't hold him hostage if he wanted to leave.
Ahh, so you did. I thought I was just re-reading the same stuff I had posted in the article I had read after skimming that. My apologies, should have read it fully.
This is a game changer (if there is credibility behind it of course) in my views of this whole situation.
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How many people are on a Jags board, 5, 6?
Haven't really looked through this entire thread, but am I the only one that doesn't really care what happens with Alex Mack?
If you ask me what I would do, and I'm no GM, I'd tell him to have fun in FLA... Because I could not see a team like the Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, etc buckling under the pressure of keeping a center at huge money... I just can't.
Look, I'd rather have a great center, than an average one, but we've had an elite level LT and Center the last 5 years, and it's gotten us nowhere. I'm not saying you don't need good offensive lineman to win in the league, but I truly believe you shouldn't be paying them like you would for guys at more impactful positions, like LT, like #1 WR, CB, S, etc...
If he stays? Then great. We have a good center.
I also don't take it personal like a lot of fans (not so much on here) seem to be doing. He doesn't hate Cleveland. He doesn't hate his teammates. He's just looking for the best deal, and possibly a better situation. It's got nothing to do with Cleveland, or the people, the fans, or any of that. Anybody in his position would be doing the same.
I just don't really care what happens. If he's gone, I won't be upset.
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J/C ......
There were reports that Mack really wanted to sign an extension last year, and that the offers he got from the Browns (and Banner) were insulting. I cannot find the articles now, and don't feel like digging for them, but going from memory, I do recall that.
I know that Steve Doerschuk of the Canton Repository reported that Banner let it be know that the Browns might "have to" go forward with Greco at Center, because they just can't keep all of the players they want to keep. A negotiating tactic? Sure, but probably one that set Mack's mindset that he should be one of, if not the highest paid center in the NFL.
I think that started to put a sour taste in Mack's mouth regarding re-signing here. When Chud was fired, I think it increased those feelings.
Now it is very likely that Mack may have had time to talk to players who have played for Shanahan, and Pettine ...... and that he likes what he has heard about them. However, we are a turnkey franchise, as in "everyone turn in your keys" on an annual basis until proved otherwise.
I do think that Mack probably went to meet with Jacksonville, and saw a coach who ended the year on a high note, and an owner who is committed to that coach, and was convinced that they are on the right track, despite the similar recent records of the 2 teams.
I am also certain that he has it in the back of his mind that the Browns, and Haslam, have said that they will match damn near any offer he receives.
Someone brought up franchising Mack if he were to opt out after 2 years, but I would bet big money that there will be a clause in the contract disallowing such action on the part of the team.
Anyway, I remain firmly convinced that this deal could have been done this previous off-season, and probably at $8 million or so per year. The one absolutely certain thing at this time is that it will cost much more than that to make a deal now.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The Jacksonville Jaguars are making a mistake. The Cleveland Browns will then have five days to decide whether they want to match that mistake and reportedly they are poised to do exactly that. Sounds crazy, but it's true. The Jaguars have reportedly agreed to a five-year contract with free agent center Alex Mack, whom the Browns transition tagged back in March. The transition tag is a one-year tender offer of a contract that compels the Browns to pay Mack over $10 million for the 2014 season while giving them the right to match any offer Mack gets from another team on the open market. Much to my surprise, a team has in fact given Mack an offer sheet. The surprise stems from the fact that the Browns currently have the most salary cap room in the NFL and are already willing to pay Mack 25 percent more than the highest paid center in the league, Carolina's Ryan Kalil. I have no idea why the Browns wouldn't match it and as such am not sure why the Jaguars would expend the time and resources to put together a deal for him. Especially when he's not worth it. More specifically, the center position is not worth the close to $10 million a year that Mack will reportedly command over the first three years of this deal, whether he plays in Jacksonville or Cleveland. It's just not. It's not a difference-making position that has a huge impact on wins and losses. I would know. I played the position. In fact, at different points in my career I saw time at all five offensive line positions, including at least four regular season starts at all three interior positions. I always thought the center position was the easiest one in which to succeed. All of the other guys that I played with who were able to play multiple positions felt the same way. This isn't about Mack. I believe he's the best center in the NFL. I met him at the Rookie Symposium five years ago and have spoken with him before games several times since then. I’m thrilled for him and his family that he is going to get this much money to play, no matter which team it is from. I believe he's exactly the type of player and person whom an organization would want to invest in for the long term. Maybe for the Browns and Jaguars, it's as simple as that. They have plenty of cap room and are likely going to be bringing in young quarterbacks in the draft. Clearly, they're placing a lot of value on Mack's leadership and ability to help bring along that young quarterback. Plus there are always other factors in place that determine what a team ultimately pays a player. For the Jaguars, they are trying to change the perception of their franchise and are looking for a core player they can build around since there aren't very many of those in Jacksonville right now. The Browns might never have given Mack this much money unless there was another suitor making a huge offer. There is public pressure to match it and retain one of the best players for a franchise that has had its fair share of negative publicity in recent months. Put it all together and it looks like Mack is poised to break the bank and set a new standard for compensation at the center position. Even if he's not worth it. http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/20...t.co/2U29fuAJSRHard to disagree with any of it.
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Quote:
The Jacksonville Jaguars are making a mistake. The Cleveland Browns will then have five days to decide whether they want to match that mistake
I read this in his voice..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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it's not a mistake when we are either going to put that money in Haslam's pocket or Mack's pocket.
we have $30mil in cap space even with Mack commanding $10mil (so, really $40mil in cap space). we have had ~$30mil in cap space each of the past 2 seasons.
yes, we have extensions to do the next couple of years, but we have PLENTY of money to splurge a couple extra million on Mack. better than just handing it back to the owner.
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the only argument I can see against it is that it reduces our cap rollover for next year's potential extensions.
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Quote:
Quote:
Just saw this and I apologize if it's already been posted...
Quote:
Browns reportedly to match Alex Mack offer sheet
...
The only pause in the discussion came Wednesday amid reports that Mack really wanted out of Cleveland. NFL Media columnist Michael Silver reported that the Browns told Mack when slapping him with the transition tag that they wouldn't hold him hostage if he wanted to leave.
Ahh, so you did. I thought I was just re-reading the same stuff I had posted in the article I had read after skimming that. My apologies, should have read it fully.
This is a game changer (if there is credibility behind it of course) in my views of this whole situation.
Oh heck, it happens all the time, no way is it likely anyone will scan everything in hopes of finding if somethings been posted.. No harm no foul
I haven't been able to verify in any way if it's true. In fact, I'd say it's concocted by media types or even floated by his agents to create buzz.. As for it being a game changer, I really don't believe it changes a thing.
Jax will make an offer, Mack will sign it, we'll match it, end of story UNLESS there is a trade or Quid Pro Quo deal involved somehow...
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One thing everyone needs to remember is that the cap floor needs to be addressed as well...They need to spend or risk losing money, not spent as they wish, but as the league sees fit on roster players over the course of a 6 years span. The last couple of seasons has been so low, they need to start spending just to hit the cap floor in the end.
Mack would actually help the franchise in that respect, as they would have say in how some of the money was spent.
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JC Oh boy now its a mistake if we match, yesterday we were going to have egg on our face if we didn't match and how stupid were we not to Franchise him. So far I have gleaned from the media we were dumb to Transition him, we were dumb not to Franchise him, we are dumb if we let him walk and we are dumb if we match. I guess the only smart option we had was to let him walk out the door and not try to keep him... course we did that with DQ and we were..... wait for it................ dumb. 
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Sounds about right!  Of course, the narrative to this story could have been: "Browns Center Alex Mack wanted to test free agency to get the best deal he could. The Browns thought it was a priority to keep him but allowed him to test the market to set his contract. It did, and they matched it, paying more money than the general perceived value of the player in free agency... which of course happens all the time."
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I think the other thing that comes into play here is that we have extra picks this year, plus a guy who can move over to center already... You could draft someone next month, and groom them, and possibly even have them starting by mid-year, depending on how things are going of course.
I mean with 10 picks, it's going to be tough to keep them all on the roster, right? If you lose Mack in free agency, that could make room for one more of those picks (I still think we swap for 2015 picks at some point in this draft).
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That would have been the narrative if some team like the Pats had done this.
We are low hanging fruit and easy pickings for some lame/lazy media types to spin any story to show franchises like the BROWNS in a bad light.
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Quote:
Jax will make an offer, Mack will sign it, we'll match it, end of story UNLESS there is a trade or Quid Pro Quo deal involved somehow...
Daman...excellent summation of the facts.
The idea of a trade did cross my mind as I thought...what are the odds that Mack is talking to the Jags, who just happen to be picking one slot ahead of the Browns in this draft...hmmm. 
...probably just a coincidence...or there is more to this deal than meets the eye.
Guess I better put the purchase of that Mack jersey on hold until after the draft.
Last edited by mac; 04/10/14 04:01 PM.
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LOL I went to the Jags board also a moment ago.. Cracks me up,. I decided to post a few of the funnier posts but I'm leaving the handles out of it. I don't want to embarrass anyone there. Quote:
Who was the other player to sign the transition tag this year? Was it Andrew Hawkins of the Bengals? And the Skins were able to steal him with a front loaded contract.
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Cleveland is cheap. The Jags could get him with a pretty reasonable deal.
Well, he may have a point there LOL
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Cleveland also runs the risk of paying a bunch this year and not getting Mack to sign a long term deal. So, if the Jags front load the deal, CLE might not want to match since the payday for this year would be so high, with a possibility they still lose him next year.
HUH? If we sign him, it will be for whatever number of years the Jax contract calls for right?
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The thing is, the Browns have more cap than us. Why would they not match any reasonable offer? The only way for them to not match is extremely overpay but then wouldnt that be a bad thing for us?
Yes it would..
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The thing to remember with this is if the Browns wanted Mack long term, they would have signed him to a contract. I don't think the fact the Cleveland has the cap space necessarily means anything significant.
So does this guy think we don't want Mack? Why would the Owner, GM, Coach, and a bunch of other honchos fly out to Cali.. Just to say bye.... LOL
Essentially, that's just a few from the first two pages of what looks like 57 pages on the topic...
CapCity is right, some are pretty good posts, some guys are just being silly, just like here and others need to come back to earth before something bad happens LOL
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Here is #Jaguars offer sheet Alex Mack will be signing tomorrow: 5 years, $42M. It’s $18M over 2 with player option after ’15. Can’t tag him
Ian Rapoport, Twitter
So we are actually saving money with Mack signing this contract. I don't see how we don't match it.
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So it's (effectively) a 2 year deal after which we can't tag him. Sounds reasonable.
Certainly better than having him this year on the transition tag plus next year on the franchise tag. Let's match it and move on.
Last edited by BleedsOrange; 04/10/14 04:53 PM.
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Quote:
Quote:
Here is #Jaguars offer sheet Alex Mack will be signing tomorrow: 5 years, $42M. It’s $18M over 2 with player option after ’15. Can’t tag him
Ian Rapoport, Twitter
So we are actually saving money with Mack signing this contract. I don't see how we don't match it.
not only are we saving money, but we can use the tag on someone else next offseason if we need it. thank you Jaguars.
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Haslam should just fly down to J'ville and have Mack sign our contract, right after he signs the Jags offer sheet
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Now here's another wrinkle: Mack gets $8 million FULLY guaranteed in Year 3 if he doesn't void after 2 years. So that's up to $26m in gtd $.
Mike Garafolo, Twitter
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Now here's another wrinkle: Mack gets $8 million FULLY guaranteed in Year 3 if he doesn't void after 2 years. So that's up to $26m in gtd $.
Mike Garafolo, Twitter
so his salary is down to $8 mil year three? Ok by me.
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Now here's another wrinkle: Mack gets $8 million FULLY guaranteed in Year 3 if he doesn't void after 2 years. So that's up to $26m in gtd $.
Mike Garafolo, Twitter
so his salary is down to $8 mil year three? Ok by me.
And according to the numbers $8M in years 4 and 5 also...but voidable and not guaranteed..
Sign it now!!
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yeah, DOH... higher math gets me this time of day... LOL
Just have the Jags draw it up twice, the 2nd time on our letterhead... see Mike Lombardi if you need some....
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Quote:
Quote:
Here is #Jaguars offer sheet Alex Mack will be signing tomorrow: 5 years, $42M. It’s $18M over 2 with player option after ’15. Can’t tag him
Ian Rapoport, Twitter
So we are actually saving money with Mack signing this contract. I don't see how we don't match it.
Essentially, we have two years to convince him to stay and just in case he doesn't, we have two years to survey potential replacements for him.
Deal,, take it.. match
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Man, that agent took us to the woodshed...
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If he has agreed to something like that, then a) he's an ass and can't get out of a Browns uni soon enough for me and b) the NFL has to step in, because it'd be bush league tactics
Amen brother. This was my thought too.. the NFL should definitely look into this "wink and nod" scheme if that is what's happening that Jax is going to offer him something they have no intention of delivering on because they have a gentlemans agreement to restructure after one season then that 1. makes everybody involved an ass and 2. totally makes a mockery of the intent of the transition tag rule..
Edit:.. in thinking about it, what would really crack me up if it does end up that Mack leaves because the Browns refuse to match... at the end of next season Mack sees this giant balloon payment he is owed and decides to go all "Carlos Boozer" on them because he really wants that money and refuses to restructure and puts the Jags in a position where they can't sign anybody else.. Short of the Browns getting him to sign and keeping him for a reasonable amount, that is the second best option..
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If these figures are correct, then its a no brainer and we re-sign him.
I still think it too high for a Centre. However, considering we have the cap space this year, and even with the re-signings we have coming up next year, we should still easily make it (any Salary Cap experts able to provide any insight? Salary Cap calcs does my head in.)
By years 3 - 5 (ie 2 yrs from now) I think 8M a yr will be a fair price for a top Centre.
I was worried the Jags offer would be much higher.
Last edited by Dawg_down_Under; 04/10/14 05:29 PM.
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Unless there is some really bizarre stuff in the contract, it seems like a no brainer that we'll match. Mack will be a member of the Browns for at least 2 years. It's a good deal for both sides, as Mack can walk if he doesn't see progress with the team, or can stay for a 3rd guaranteed year, and a somewhat reasonable (by that time) 4th and 5th seasons. Alex Mack's offer from the Jacksonville Jaguars: 5 years, $42 million, $18 milion over the first two, player option to walk after '15 | cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/04/alex_macks_reported_offer_from.htmlCLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Jaguars' offer to Alex Mack is worth $42 million over five years, including $18 million over the first two years, a league source confirmed for cleveland.com. The offer also gives Mack an opportunity to void the deal and become a free agent after 2015. What's more, the team that ends up with him can't apply the transition or franchise tag after 2015. The deal also includes a large sum of guaranteed in 2016 if Mack sticks around, the source said. Mike Garafolo of Fox Sports1 reported that the guarantee in 2016 is $8 million. The $8.4 million average would make Mack the highest paid center in the NFL, surpassing Carolina's Ryan Kalil, who averages $8.186 million. NFL Network's Ian Rapoport first reported the terms of the deal. Mack is expected to sign the offer sheet on Friday, and the Browns have five days to match. But they'll probably match the deal right away and have their two-time Pro Bowl center under contract for at least the next two years, at an average of $9 million. Mack is well aware that the Browns have every intention of matching any deal that Jacksonville comes up with. Browns owner Jimmy Haslam made that perfectly clear at the Draft Day premiere Tuesday night. “We remain optimistic that Alex Mack will be a Cleveland Brown for a long time,” Haslam said. “We want him to be. I think we’ve made it very clear that he’s the kind of person, the kind of player we want in our organization.” Asked if he’s prepared to match anything the Jaguars come up with, Haslam smiled and said, “We want Alex to be a Cleveland Brown.” The only part of the deal that might make the Browns think twice is the option to void after two years, but if they were prepared to pay him $10.039 million this season, they most likely won't have a problem paying him $18 million over the first two years. A league source with knowledge of the deal expects the Browns to match.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,865
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,865 |
Quote:
Man, that agent took us to the woodshed...
Not really.... 9 mill a year for two years.
That's a mill less than the tag for one year.. And less then the tag for 2 years.
The first question I have is, is there a NO TRADE CLAUSE. If there isn't, then this is easy,, we trade him back to the Jags right away for a 1st next year or this year or two 2nd rounders. One this year and one next or some combination of picks.. That way, he gets what he wants (out) we get picks, the Jags get their guy.
WIN WIN WIN
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,847
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,847 |
we basically saved 2 million this year and even more next year...this is a no brainer, averages out to 8.4 mill a year
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 919
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 919 |
Quote:
Quote:
Man, that agent took us to the woodshed...
Not really.... 9 mill a year for two years.
That's a mill less than the tag for one year.. And less then the tag for 2 years.
The first question I have is, is there a NO TRADE CLAUSE. If there isn't, then this is easy,, we trade him back to the Jags right away for a 1st next year or this year or two 2nd rounders. One this year and one next or some combination of picks.. That way, he gets what he wants (out) we get picks, the Jags get their guy.
WIN WIN WIN
Now that's what I call a solution. 
GO BROWNS!
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
But I don't think he ever wanted out. He wanted to get paid after testing the market. He's getting that.
As mentioned above, is there a direct quote from Alex that he indeed wanted out (and/or still wants out)?
Last I saw was that he would be more than willing to play out the two years in Cleveland if we match.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Alex Mack continued...
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