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This is what the NFL needs to look into.
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the team that ends up with him can't apply the transition or franchise tag after 2015
If that flies, every agent around will be putting that clause in there and also the option of opting out. Which is BS.
This ain't the NBA.
That does fly. This isn't the first contract to have a "no tag" clause in the NFL; not by a long shot.
Actually, it's inherent in the way that the contract is drawn up. A contract with a player option excludes the use of a 'tag'. Otherwise, the player doesn't truly have an 'option' and the contract would be unenforceable.
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#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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George ?
“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”
George Orwell, Animal Farm
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good one. Kind of embarrassed I did not make the connection. 
#gmstrong
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Better than...tough question...More durable...most definitely.
OL is a unit. You need all the pieces which doesn't mean all are high picks but like a puzzle they need to fit. Then - like any unit but more so - the OL UNIT needs Continuity, That is the big key for OL that many here do not give credit to. Skill Set? you need certain Skills to play LT Good-to Great...then RT...then LG...then RG and last in Skill set needed to play the position is center.
Now much to do about the Center position is predicated on Football intelligence. We have had good OL Coaches here actually over the years. Some under skilled players but we have NEVER HAD CONTINUITY - even with Warhop here since 2009. Total new offense 09-2013 were 3...nuances in the system 2011 to 2012 they wanted to go more Zone scheme. 2013 was a Zone scheme as they brought in Sullivan. 2014 now we are going Outside Zone Blocking Scheme which is different. Hard to judge Mack to a Pouncey w/Steelers who basically were in the same system for many years. Arians left and their continuity ended and you can notice a difference. I've always thought the Pouncey Brothers were over rated.
What I do know is we need to be STABLE...worst case scenario is Shanahan leaves us next year for a HC job. We would be changing again. NOT GOOD!
Joe, Greco, Mack, ?Pinky?, Schwartz are a unit right now that know each other. They will be able to get into the NEW Offense easier as a unit then if we went and started changing the pieces. Pinkston to RG is the only change - but if we lost Mack even though the position is replaceable - the UNIT is not.
Greco would go to Center...New LG, now the UNIT basically will have 3 new positions occupied it will take longer to get the UNIT acting as ONE in the new Scheme.
Right now Mack is the best Center we can have over anyone in the NFL if we had a chance to choose. It brings this UNIT as close to stability as there is which is what makes a UNIT GOOD!!! Skill Set - Maybe his personal skill set applies itself better to the new scheme...I can see the Center pulling more especially against the 3-4 teams with NTs.
Think of Mack right now as a Bonding agent...(glue) needed for a machine to stay in operational status. Right now...This Place this time. Mack is very valuable to us.
We should be signing this contract although we don't know the details to state 100%
jmho
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Go Browns!
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JC
So Mack has officially signed the offer sheet. I wonder how many hours/days it takes for the Browns to match.
I think it's inevitable. Barring some crazy occurrence, I think he stays a Cleveland Brown.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Thanks
But...
Although you sold me that keeping him, and his value as a part of the unit is the most important thing, we are looking at paying him 9 million a year for 2 ++ years. I'm wondering, is he as good as some of the other highly thought of centers? A year ago people were complaining about his play, I would say the board considered him above average and that's about it. He has his contract year, and we end up paying him 9 million plus for the duration. The importance of the unit is one thing, but that is an awful lot of dough for a center. And, to be honest, I don't really know how good he is.
I guess matching the offer allows us two years to prepare his replacement.
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I wouldn't be surprised if Jimmy waits until the very last minute of the 5th day before he signs it.
Just deserts.
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On the other hand....matching it early on continues to sends the message and let Mack know how much the team wanted him to stay in the first place.
I don't think they'll wait the full five days. Actually I wouldn't be surprised if its matched over the weekend or "sources" are leaked tonight the the FO brass plans to match it.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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I guess matching the offer allows us two years to prepare his replacement.
That's the worst case scenario. And with everything that can change within two years I'm OK with that. The Jags saved us money this year on his tag. He'll be 30 in two years. So what else do we have to worry about this off-season? Back to the draft?
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On the other hand....matching it early on continues to sends the message and let Mack know how much the team wanted him to stay in the first place.
I don't think they'll wait the full five days. Actually I wouldn't be surprised if its matched over the weekend or "sources" are leaked tonight the the FO brass plans to match it.
I would match it ASAP and send the message that he is our guy and we value him.
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You bring up an interesting point....his age in two years. This contract may be the best one he'll get, including the final three years' salary.
Not sure how to project what he'll be like at 30, but it will be interesting to see what happens then and if teams shy away from major guaranteed money because of the 30 yr-old milestone.
But if he's really unhappy by then, maybe he'll just cut ties regardless. Hopefully we're winning Super Bowls by then so everyone will be happy.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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JC
So Mack has officially signed the offer sheet. I wonder how many hours/days it takes for the Browns to match.
I think it's inevitable. Barring some crazy occurrence, I think he stays a Cleveland Brown.
I don't know if he's actually signed it yet, but he's supposed to do so today. The Browns have 5 days to match or decline. How much of those 5 days they'll use, I don't know. But I suspect a day or so at least.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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JC
So Mack has officially signed the offer sheet. I wonder how many hours/days it takes for the Browns to match.
I think it's inevitable. Barring some crazy occurrence, I think he stays a Cleveland Brown.
Officially signed: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000...sheet-with-jags
Last edited by Lucian; 04/11/14 01:00 PM.
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I don't think the 30 year old mark means very much when talking about a Center. RB?... yes. Center? Nah, not going to have much of an impact I think.
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lol, MK is nuts! In that video she thinks we would take Carr at #4 over Manziel or Bridgewater; with Bortles and Watkins off the board. NO WAY.
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You never know. Anything is possible.
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Quote:
Quote:
JC
So Mack has officially signed the offer sheet. I wonder how many hours/days it takes for the Browns to match.
I think it's inevitable. Barring some crazy occurrence, I think he stays a Cleveland Brown.
I don't know if he's actually signed it yet, but he's supposed to do so today. The Browns have 5 days to match or decline. How much of those 5 days they'll use, I don't know. But I suspect a day or so at least.
They'll probably make a move on Monday, that would be my guess. It'll take a day or two of due diligence on the contract.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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You bring up an interesting point....his age in two years. This contract may be the best one he'll get, including the final three years' salary.
Not sure how to project what he'll be like at 30, but it will be interesting to see what happens then and if teams shy away from major guaranteed money because of the 30 yr-old milestone.
But if he's really unhappy by then, maybe he'll just cut ties regardless. Hopefully we're winning Super Bowls by then so everyone will be happy.
Exactly, if we are winning Mack is going to stay here and take the guaranteed money. Both the Jags and the Browns have not been the most stable franchises in recent history, both have had coaches/regeim turn over. If in two years which ever team he is on is going through more turnover or the team still stinks he can get out. I see no problem with that. I'd want the same thing if I was in his shoes. Kudo's to his Agent for being able to negotiate that.
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Did the Jaguars really make a decision to help themselves?
Or, did they screw us?
It almost seems like they spent a lot of time and energy to screw us.
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That's fair. It's certainly not as critical a factor as the RB position and maybe with lineman it's near the bottom relative to all positions in the NFL but I do think league wide is something teams weight when it comes to a major contract ESPECIALLY with guaranteed money.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Did the Jaguars really make a decision to help themselves?
Or, did they screw us?
It almost seems like they spent a lot of time and energy to screw us.
How does it screw us?
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Quote:
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Did the Jaguars really make a decision to help themselves?
Or, did they screw us?
It almost seems like they spent a lot of time and energy to screw us.
How does it screw us?
It doesn't.. we were prepared to pay him 10.6 this year and tag him again next if need be (my guess of course) so we could have possibly been on the hook for 20+ Million instead of 18 million.
It doesn't screw us at all.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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I actually think it's a great deal for Alex. For the Browns, it's probably a little more than what they want to pay for, but I get the feeling they will match...
Probably not what I would have done, but hey, people asked this team to start spending, and well, there you have it.
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Quote:
Quote:
Did the Jaguars really make a decision to help themselves?
Or, did they screw us?
It almost seems like they spent a lot of time and energy to screw us.
How does it screw us?
Yeah. They didn't really. If he lasts for two years, JAX saved us a few million $ anda tag we can use on another player. Again, the only thing I don't like about the deal is loss of control of $8M in year 3. Honestly a good move by agent. I don't like it, but hey....at least one team so far liked it....probably two.
Also I read this on Jax board too about Jax trying to screw us. Really? 31 other teams in the league and its the big bad Browns, a team not even in your division, who's cap you are trying to screw? 
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Again, the only thing I don't like about the deal is loss of control of $8M in year 3. Honestly a good move by agent. I don't like it, but hey....at least one team so far liked it....probably two.
Not sure what you mean there.. If he leaves, are you thinking we'll need to pay him that money in the third year? I'd have a hard time believing that. I'd think that if he leaves, we owe him nothing.
#GMSTRONG
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Match the offer, then trade him to Jax.
Why? You take a $20 mil cap hit this season (the fully guaranteed salary) and get what in return? Let him sign with Jax outright and retire a wealthy man in 5 years.
Why would you take a 20 mil cap hit? You trade him with contract intact. Jax assumes it. If you let him walk you get nothing, trade him to Jax and you get something even if it's not much it's better than we'd get now. If Jax doesn't want to trade, you have him for two more years at least. If he wants out I'd rather let him go but get something for a former 1st rounder.
You take the cap hit for the fully guaranteed portion of the contract outside of the base salary portion. If it is structured as $1 million base salaries with $9/year signing bonus in each of the first two years, the Browns would have to eat $18 million in cap hit penalties this year if they traded him. The team that received him would only have to pay the salary portion of his contract.
As someone else pointed out the $10 million Mack was to make under the transition tag was already included in our estimated cap. With the $10 million cap increase and the rollover we would have about $33 million next year with Mack on board.
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Ya, that's correct. If he voids the contract then we wouldn't owe him anything for that 3rd year.
Think about if that wasn't the case though. Mack would FOR SURE void the contract, collect the 8 million from us and then sign again for another 8+ million either here or with another team. Thankfully that isn't a real option for Mack though lol.
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Ya, that's correct. If he voids the contract then we wouldn't owe him anything for that 3rd year.
Think about if that wasn't the case though. Mack would FOR SURE void the contract, collect the 8 million from us and then sign again for another 8+ million either here or with another team. Thankfully that isn't a real option for Mack though lol.
I don't think that's what I Rouge was saying. He was saying we have no choice on the 3rd year as in if Mack is under performing or is injury ridden the next two seasons where he won't get a big contract out there he can opt to take the third year @ 8mil guaranteed and we have no choice but to keep him.
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Yawn.... never really considered trading him anyways so.. ya. Let's sign this thing and move on!
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Mack's deal has a no trade clause
I heard yesterday from Ian Rappaport that there was another item in the deal we didn't know about but it had nothing to do with money. This must have been it.
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Hopefully we will archive this thread...I'm just curious what people are going to state and view when Gordon will be going for his 2nd contract in 2 years and it will be more than what Mack is getting. 
From everything I have read...the meat n potato is in the first 2 years...we got the cap space the last 3 has to be much less...of course until we see the contract its all talk.
From what I also do understand we are heading into a new era of price structuring going more the way of 2nd year contracts - where in the past the Mack's were released if not tagged. But it was because the drafted players held a big chunk of the payroll % - What killed teams like us as we would have a lot of money tied up in complete ???? and when they failed (all too often) we suffered.
Now it is set up to pay off these 2nd contracts. I think Mack's contract is going to be mild compared to some others we will have to see. He if the bulk is gone the first 2 seasons (its that he can claim FA after 2 season if that is in.???) that would be fine as it will free up more room the last 3 on the contract which we might need more Cap space then.
jmho
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Yes that is true. This is a nice deal for Mack for sure let's all be clear.
IF he is playing well he'll void and negotiate a fat new contract.
IF he is playing bad he'll just take the 8 million in the 3rd year.
All in all though I'm not worried about Mack. His track record has been amazing. I'd be worried if I thought there were any character issues with him but it's the exact opposite.
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Ya, that's correct. If he voids the contract then we wouldn't owe him anything for that 3rd year.
Think about if that wasn't the case though. Mack would FOR SURE void the contract, collect the 8 million from us and then sign again for another 8+ million either here or with another team. Thankfully that isn't a real option for Mack though lol.
I don't think that's what I Rouge was saying. He was saying we have no choice on the 3rd year as in if Mack is under performing or is injury ridden the next two seasons where he won't get a big contract out there he can opt to take the third year @ 8mil guaranteed and we have no choice but to keep him.
Yes, that is what I mean. I don't like not having control over that $8M as it leaves some incertainty.
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so in a nutshell
year 1 $9 mil guaranteed
year 2 $9 milh guiaranteed
year 3 $8 mil guaranteed ( if he stays , his option. if bolts we owe 0)
year 4 $8 mil not guaranteed
year 5 $8 mil not guaranteed.
No trade clause
No signing bonus
we can cut after 3rd year with no cap hit and no dead money.
How many here would have been happy with 5 years and $35 mil with $22 guaranteed and $8 mil signing bonus? I would have.
so we overpaid 1.5 Mil a year but after 3 years we can show him the door ( if we want) with no cap hit. He gets a no trade clause ( was a trade a really wanted?) and gets the third year guaranty.
to me a win for Alex and a push for us... frankly I take it, move on and find me a OG and a CB,
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Ty for that post. Nice to see all the details laid out.
I'd say... if it's true that Alex would be open to playing here and "just doesn't want outta Cleveland" and all that crap, I'd say sign this by end-day today and let's move on with Alex as our center and put all this crap/hearsay/true/false and etc behind us!
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I see no real issues with the deal.
The no trade is a minor issue, but if he really doesn't want to be here, and the Browns have a chance to trade him to a contending team, he'll probably be open to that. (probably with a financial sweetener)
This is basically a 2 or 3 year deal, and he controls the 3rd year. He can control being tagged in year 3 if he chooses by waiting until after the tag period to declare that he is opting out. Not ideal for the Browns, but they just have to get this thing turned around to keep him.
His annual salaries are higher, but not unreasonable.
The biggest risk is that he gets hurt at the end of year 2, and then accepts year 3, even if he can't play. That's a risk with any guarantee though.
I don't see a "stopper" in what has been reported. I don't think that the Browns will either.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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Quote:
I see no real issues with the deal.
The no trade is a minor issue, but if he really doesn't want to be here, and the Browns have a chance to trade him to a contending team, he'll probably be open to that. (probably with a financial sweetener)
Exactly. I think that No-Trade was in there more as 80% protection against Jags trading than Browns. They know the likelihood of Browns match is very high so if he really didn't want to be here as some speculate, why would he need that clause? He would just bolt in year 3 or be happy to get traded. Its more about stability; something he hasn't seen in 5 years.
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I see no glaring issues either. And for a guy who has not missed a snap, the guaranteed money in the three years doesn't scare me either (knock on wood)
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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