I did not assume that. Like I said, I imagine he probably just tossed it in a desk drawer.
Whoops,, That's an assumption right there..
Quote:
Assumption #2: Shanahan is petty enough to scorn the document without looking at it.
I don't see what do scorn or pettiness has to do with anything.
Your comment made it appear that Kyle would look at it scornfully.. so I decided you must be assuming again
Quote:
Assumption #3: That Mike Sr is a retired HS Coach so what could he possibly know about Football in the NFL.
I know many people with a great deal of NFL knowledge who have even less credentials.
It doesn't sound like I'm the one assuming things here...
Then why are you looking down on this situation.? You admit you know many people that with a great deal of NFL knowledge who have even less credentials, yet you think it's bad for Shanahan to read the 40 pages?
Without assuming someting, can you give me a SOLID reason to ignore anyone with Mike Sr.s Credentials?
Quote:
"Your heart isn't big enough to allow for a father to be proud of his son and wishing to help in any way he can"?
Look, it's a fluff piece. No need for numbered assumption points. As I said, Pettine probably said 'Thanks, pop' and tossed it in a drawer. Now that the story is out, if Shanahan is asked about it, he'll probably thank Sr. and say he picked up some pointers from it. End of story.
I don't see anything to laugh at.. except that others have taken up my position and you apparently don't like it.
Yes, it's a fluff piece, No, it makes little difference, which once again begs the question, WHY would you think it's a bad Idea to look at those pages?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Bill Belichick, probably the top of the NFL coaching food chain, took advice regarding offense from some college coach out in Oregon, of all places. This coach suggested that he run the concept offense, that allowed for the offense to maximize the number of offensive snaps. Belichick took this college coach's advice (some guy named Chip Kelly) and it make Tom Brady even better than he was before.
He could have said "I have more Super Bowl wins than anyone coaching today, so I don't need to listen to anyone", but instead he listened to an idea he felt had merit, and used it to improve his team.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I did not assume that. Like I said, I imagine he probably just tossed it in a desk drawer.
Whoops,, That's an assumption right there..
You might want to look up the definition of assumption.
Quote: Your comment made it appear that Kyle would look at it scornfully.. so I decided you must be assuming again
I highly doubt he ever sees it, and I've said as much. Not sure how you assumed the opposite (and what you've said is by definition - assumption).
Quote: Without assuming someting, can you give me a SOLID reason to ignore anyone with Mike Sr.s Credentials?
Because it would be awkward and unprofessional for Pettine to ask (i.e. tell) his OC to look over plays his father drew up. If anything, you look it over yourself and bring up anything pertinent to the staff.
Also, everyone else here seems to understand that Shanahan isn't likely to be handed these papers but you. And yet the burden of proof somehow falls on me?
I get that its a feel good piece you want to buy into, but c'mon...you honestly needed these questions answered?
Quote: High school football and the NFL are worlds apart. Not in any way similar other than a very few basic things.
I don't agree wih that. While I also said it was a bit awkward, I don't think the games are all that far apart.
The abilities of the players are, but not so much the coaches when comparing to a good HS coach.
Pro coaches leared the game from HS coaches and college coaches. In most cases from a pro coach. HS coaches learned from HS coaches, college coaches, and in some cases pro coaches.
This idea that pro coaching is vastly superior to some HS coaching and college coaching just isn't true. Had Pettine's last name been Hayes or Bryant none would blink a eye.
The basis of football are the same at all levels. The only differences are the refinments of the players skills.
To me, in some ways, Pro coaches are the worst of the bunch. They aren't teaching a whole lot at that point. They are refining skills already taught by the HS and college coach.
I always laugh when i see people say we need to teach a guy like Braby how to catch. LOL.....at the pro level, you won't be able to do that. That is the kind of thing that is taught 2-3 levels below. If he hasn't caught by that point, he isn't. Very few skills are taught at the pro level. Only refinements to the already posessed skills to best fit the team system.
The one big exception is the TE position. Those power forwards and shooting forwards who are quite good enough for the NBA are exciting targets. You know they can catch since you have to do that in hoops.....and they can jump and cut
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
1. a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof. "they made certain assumptions about the market" synonyms: supposition, presumption, belief, expectation, conjecture, speculation, surmise, guess, premise, hypothesis; More conclusion, deduction, inference; rareillation, notion, impression "an informed assumption" 2. the action of taking or beginning to take power or responsibility. "the assumption of an active role in regional settlements" synonyms: seizure, arrogation, appropriation, expropriation, commandeering, confiscation, hijacking, wresting More "the assumption of power by revolutionaries" acceptance, shouldering, tackling, undertaking "the early assumption of community obligation" 3. the reception of the Virgin Mary bodily into heaven. This was formally declared a doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church in 1950. the feast in honor of this, celebrated on August 15. 4. archaic arrogance or presumption.
Origin
Obviously, a couple of those don't fit.. But the first one does,, as for the 4th,, I'll let someone explain that to you
Quote:
Your comment made it appear that Kyle would look at it scornfully.. so I decided you must be assuming again
I highly doubt he ever sees it, and I've said as much. Not sure how you assumed the opposite (and what you've said is by definition - assumption).
You said you highly doubt he sees it.. Isn't that an assumption?
Quote: Because it would be awkward and unprofessional for Pettine to ask (i.e. tell) his OC to look over plays his father drew up.
Is that what's in those pages. Gee thanks for telling me because they never mention what was in there.. Assumption?
Here is the exact quote:
Quote: Last week, the father of the Browns’ head coach mailed a 40-page document for his son to give to offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan.
Mike Sr went on to say:
Quote: “When I was a coach, I wanted ideas,” Pettine Sr. said recently via the phone. “You never know where it’s going to come from, and a light bulb will go off.”
He's a smart guy.. Very..
It's' not awkward PDR.. Not even a little bit. We're talking about Grown men here in Shanahan and Mike Jr. They understand that it's a document filled with thoughts I would "ASSUME" may have some value. if they don't, there isn't any harm or foul..
That's not awkward, that's being man enough to say you don't know everything..
This discussion is getting a little silly now and I think I'm done with it. You won't back down, neither will I. SO, I ASSUME you will now allow it to drop...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
I would suggest re-reading the definition of the word again.
Quote: You said you highly doubt he sees it.. Isn't that an assumption?
Did you honestly look up the definition, copy it, paste it here, and glean nothing from it?
No, it's not.
'I imagine' or 'I highly doubt' isn't indicative of a statement or thought process that's proclaiming a decided certainty or truth.
Quote:
It's' not awkward PDR.. Not even a little bit.
Yes, it is.
I'm guessing that you've got some weird angle here, as I don't understand how someone could honestly be dense enough not to see how awkward or unprofessional it would be for Pettine to require a subordinate to look over suggestions from his father.
Quote: That's not awkward, that's being man enough to say you don't know everything..
I love that somehow you've twisted this into nonsense about father's pride for their sons or questions of Shanahan's manhood and pettiness.
Quote:
This discussion is getting a little silly now and I think I'm done with it.
no doubt daman...i don't see what the big deal is one bit.
ideas are what they are...ideas....
Nobody that ever becomes good at anything, does it with a closed mind. If you think you know it all then your doomed.
At one point in the nfl it was mostly running....then some dude named paul brown starts using the forward pass.
Bill walsh takes ideas and expands to create the west coast offense.
others make variations of that.
Buddy ryans defense....tampa 2....run and shoot
on and on, someone smarter than me could go i'm sure.
the point is all it takes is one good idea to spark something great.
and really if nothing else, its a guy that has lived football his entire life that wants to talk football schemes and or philosophy. How this could be bad in any way is beyond me.
Like I said, if Bill Belichick was seeking advice from a (then) nobody college coach as to how to improve his offense, then I see no reason why any coach would turn down ideas from anywhere. (unless they feel that it's their way or nothing .... which would be stupid ...... and doesn't seem to be Shanahan's way given the way he adjusted his offense for RG3)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Unless, you don't know what "the gleam" is. If not, I can't really explain it to you. It must be seen to be understood. My comment was just a lighthearted response to it. It was intended to be humorous.
"The Gleam" is easily the most classic Marty moment caught on film. He is giving one of his man motivating, tear jerking, pep talks and he just stops as if he forgets what he was going to say. Then, after a pause, he just says "The Gleam" then he repeats it "The Gleam Men", then he starts to explain it, then he just repeats it again. Its kinda like Vermeil crying, Parcells cussing out Bellichick, etc...
"The Gleam" is a classic. Even my wife refers to it.
"The Gleam" is easily the most classic Marty moment caught on film. He is giving one of his man motivating, tear jerking, pep talks and he just stops as if he forgets what he was going to say. Then, after a pause, he just says "The Gleam" then he repeats it "The Gleam Men", then he starts to explain it, then he just repeats it again. Its kinda like Vermeil crying, Parcells cussing out Bellichick, etc...
"The Gleam" is a classic. Even my wife refers to it.
I know what the hell the "Gleam" is, Tell me how I refered to it.. It never even occured to me
And to PDR, If you aren't willing to explain, don't make dumb comments
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
You guys watch the Colts vs. Seahawks game this year?
Anybody notice/focus on Lynch vs Trent?
I was blown away on how much better Lynch was as a running back. The contrast was beyond anything I could imagine. A "man vs. a boy" kind of thing. I was more focused on that matchup than I was the game.
On Topic
Am I supposed to believe that a coach who gave his heart and soul to the game for practically his entire life doesn't know, understand, have a certain level of mastery over pro-football just because he was a high school coach? Really? I will bet that SR. knows most everything about what current NFL teams are doing. Now that he can sit and watch the game on TV and live, and think things out, he may know more than a lot of current NFL assistants who have to work their butts off and are distracted with hundreds of different variables and details each day of their lives.
ps. Those of you who disagreed with me that Adam Gase will end up rueing the day he ignored us and this job. When I stated that his decision was flat out stupid. Do things look any different now?
I thought that the quote from that raucous and robustly inspiring speech went:
"There's a gleam men. Get the gleam"
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Look, it's a fluff piece. No need for numbered assumption points
Yet you responded to every one of them.
Quote: Assumption #2: Shanahan is petty enough to scorn the document without looking at it.
Quote:
I don't see what do scorn or pettiness has to do with anything.
Maybe scorn or pettiness are not the right word.. perhaps the right word is arrogance... arrogance that there isn't possibly anything he could learn from an old retired HS football coach.
If my new bosses dad gave me a 40 page document I would read it.. heck it might have been a 40 page document on how to get along with his son. It's 40 pages, how long does that take to read? an hour? just read it.
Quote: I've already explained it more than once (not that it really needed to be).
At this point, you're either being obtuse or dense.
Either way, just let it go.
You explained the Gleam thing? Where?
I was responding to:
Quote: And to PDR, If you aren't willing to explain, don't make dumb comments
Let's just go with being dense and call it a day.
I knew what you were referring to,, But you made the comment about me and the reference to The Gleam,,, and thus far, nobody has explain how I referenced that..
I think you are the dense one..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
First of all, coaching is coaching at all levels. Sr. might not know the ins and outs of the pro game since he didn't coach at this level. The schemes are different the playbook more detailed and massive, but coaching is coaching.
Second, I would like to know where it came about that he gave him plays to run. Maybe it was just about his philosophy of coaching. Maybe he did it to give Shanahan some insight on how his son was taught and why he approaches things the way he does.
Third, many who are very versed in the NFL, consider his father a "legend". Their words not mine. Here is an older gentleman with vast experience coaching football. Maybe if his path would have been different, he could have become a great NFL coach. Many at the high school level get offers to move to the college ranks, yet choose to stay at the high school level because of the pride they get for developing young players an molding them into collegiate athletes. The head coach for Steubenville High School has an amazing record, hardly ever loses more than two games a year. He has had offers from many colleges to move up, but chooses to stay due to the fact that he loves what he is doing. If I'm not mistaken,, when Holmgren came to the NFL, he was not that far removed from high school coaching.
And lastly.I doubt seriously that Sr, was meaning to tell anybody how to do their job, and I doubt that Shanahan or any body else took it that way. As for thowing it in his desk, I can't see Pettine disrespecting his father that way. Only an arrogant know-it-all like the one who suggested that would do something like that. It is funny that a message board poster who acts as if he knows more than anybody about anything, much less coaching football successfully, would in a round about way make fun of a coach with decades of success.
IMO, Shanahan probably read it. Even if it was just out of respect for an elder. No one will ever know if he gained any insight from it, and that absolutely doesn't matter. Pettine is very proud of his father and his accomplishments, and I doubt he would disrespect his fathers wishes.
Anybody who thinks that you can not learn something new from anybody, is a fool. And sometimes inspiration comes from the least likely place. Making fun and mocking Pettine's father just shows how arrogant and ignorant some people are.
Yep. I bet that people have received inspiration when reading a book to their children at night. You never know what is going to spark an idea. Maybe a coach is working on a play, but just can't get it tweaked exactly the way he wants, so he goes online and looks at different plays trying to find some inspiration, and finds the answer looking at the Google logo. lol You just never know. I see nothing wrong with this, as long as Shanahan doesn't feel required to use anything offered to him. If it's just ideas, well, we all look for ideas.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
yet choose to stay at the high school level because of the pride they get for developing young players an molding them into collegiate athletes.
Especially their own children.
Couple add ons to your post. 1. Possible he's a visionary and had been tinkering with formations and plays off those formations. I know I still love doing that and I'm closing in on 60.
2. Gosh knows HS coaches don't make it in the NFL...just ask Lombardi, Walsh heck even Holmgren made his name in HS coaching...btw just guessing on the Walsh but threw that in for effect
I do know there is a whole mess of coaches from OHIO HS football that have moved on to make their marks. Well there brains didn't stop learning, thinking...Pettine chose to stay in HS but his brain I'm sure kept tinkering exploring. Possibly working in one play for that Championship but what people didn't know was he had about 100 off of that formation.
Just educated guessing.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Quote: 2. Gosh knows HS coaches don't make it in the NFL...just ask Lombardi, Walsh heck even Holmgren made his name in HS coaching...btw just guessing on the Walsh but threw that in for effect
You forgot Paul Brown who was at Massilon HS and Severn HS.. And you probably remember that Brown gave Walsh his foundation and Walsh gave Holmgren his foundation.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
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