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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 252
2nd String
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2nd String
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 252 |
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Final Thought...
I agree with WR. You could make an argument for ILB & maybe FS. However those 3 positions won't keep us from making the playoffs.
And how is a team going to make the playoffs without a #1WR, a #2WR, without an elite RB, a line designed to run, and a rookie QB at the helm...
Add to that a week middle defense, without elite ILB nor safeties, and not only I don't see us going to the playoffs, but a high probability of staying at the bottom of our division.
Ok... seriously? 
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
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Final Thought...
I agree with WR. You could make an argument for ILB & maybe FS. However those 3 positions won't keep us from making the playoffs.
And how is a team going to make the playoffs without a #1WR, a #2WR, without an elite RB, a line designed to run, and a rookie QB at the helm...
Add to that a week middle defense, without elite ILB nor safeties, and not only I don't see us going to the playoffs, but a high probability of staying at the bottom of our division.
I'd settle for very good, which is what Tate can be. Bitonio will increase production from the run blocking perspective. Also, who's to say Hoyer isn't the starter?
We have a 2 time pro bowler at safety and a guy who had a pro bowl caliber year in Dansby.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,025 Likes: 1
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,025 Likes: 1 |
You don't need an elite RB to win the super bowl. Other than Seattle, all the recent winners didn't have one...
You're always going to have holes. You're just not going to have a pro bowler at every position. It's all about the system, having depth and support in the system, and hitting on late draft picks every once in a while...
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447 |
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While I do agree they drafted very scheme specific and that it lowers the players value if they were to change schemes I think it is a good thing that those players could excel faster and possibly exceed a basic well rounded prospect we are normally accustomed to. Maybe that's not true but it seems logical to me. As far as pertaining to the job this FO is tasked with I see it as smart for them if that is the case. That is to say if I was the FO with a choice between player A and B of the exact same talent, one being an scheme diverse player and the other scheme specific I'd choose scheme specific thinking he has a greater ceiling within that system to excel and not bust despite the chance he doesn't fit the scheme of the guy after I got fired lol.
Good point that the guys should impact and contribute quicker because of it. I think that applies.
Where I disagree is the "choice" between two similar ranked players. I believe the "scheme fit" factor is already "priced in" the grade and that already skews the value part. If it happens, it has more to do with feeling better about their choices or "falling in love" with particular prospects to the point that they overrate them. It's natural though, happens to everyone. It's not an exact science.
Total agreement on it being factored into the decision and grades. I more so just meant it as an example to question if you agreed with logic in choosing the scheme fit player over the "versatile" player. 
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Also I'm not sure I'd call FS a "need". Sure Gipson is not a true playmaker at the position and if we do roll out a nickle as our base D as I suspect he is our weakpoint I think this D doesn't require a true playmaker at FS. A balanced guy capable of covering a CB's or ILB's mistakes and average at least against the run is very fitting. I just mean to say that if I had to pick where I'd want our "weak link" I'd pick one of the safeties. Especially the one on Hadens side. 
Maybe you're right, but Pettine did have Byrd in Buffalo and he may spoiled by him a bit and may be in for a rough wake up call because Gipson is the opposite to Byrd. He sits deep and is pretty bad at playing the ball. He waits for tips and passes bouncing his way and always seems to be two steps back of the action instead of "really" doubling the WR. I see a lot of "not to lose" style of play. He makes sure not to look bad, but that's at the cost of actually helping the team (mate) out. Maybe he just lacks the instincts, I don't know, but I'm pretty confident in what style of play I saw with Gipson last year and I believe it's part of the problem showing itself especially on those 4th Qtr collapses when the other teams were forced to pass and we had no FS "teeing off" Ed Reed style, so to speak. He still played the same and we got methodically and expectably picked apart.
We will see. They did bring in a lot of S in in UDFA, so maybe like with WR they saw the problem but never saw the value in taking one.
Again I agree. I am not confident in what I saw in Gipson to be able to consider him more than "not a liability" which I suppose is better than some serious liability starters we are accustomed to. With Pettine having experience with Reed and now Byrd I could see him being spoiled and really valuing a good play maker there. Though, and I find this hard to say, with our amazing defensive talent these days he may just have to deal with only being strong everywhere else haha. I could definitely see the added value of placing a better player over our new shiny CB to help him. Though I would think more often than not Gipson will play over Haden which will hopefully hide his less aggressive nature. While Haden gets beat occasionally with quick double moves rarely does he get beat by pure speed over top.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 Likes: 83
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 Likes: 83 |
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As always I will reserve my final draft thoughts for 3 years down the road. Not two days after the draft is over 
That's the easy way. It's all about snap judgments ..... especially with the Browns. These guys have to be great immediately,m or we may up and fire everyone next year. 
Was contemplating that just today. Wouldn't it be nice if we could see the Owner, General Manager, Team president, Head coach, and both coordinators, ALL returning for another season, for a change. When this time of year comes around next year.
Kind of worried about the coach the most, because if he doesn't deserve back, I think that's the one spot where teams shouldn't wait to change, once it's clear.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 36
Rookie
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Rookie
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 36 |
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I think Bitonio will be somewhat of a steal, actually.
I didn't know anything about this guy when they drafted him, but liked how he was described (tough, physical, semi-nasty). Sounded like exactly the type of player Pettine wants.
Then I saw his highlight reel. He's quick...even at OT, but looked like he could have been called for holding on every play. Hopefully a coachable raw talent.
I vow to smack everyone who says the importance of the running back is diminished in the NFL today.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,313 Likes: 36
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,313 Likes: 36 |
j/c When I look among the 6 drafted players for the Browns these are the traits I see in common. First, athleticism, I see guys with movement skills; there are no plodders among these players. I also see a that some of these guys have had to overcome some personal adversity. That's the mental toughness Coach Pettine continues to refer to. I really like this draft class. 
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,946 Likes: 70
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,946 Likes: 70 |
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I don't think any of us really saw him... In their post-presser it sounds like he was really high on their board though...
Some of the "experts" had him (pre-draft) sneaking into the bottm of the 1st rd, so he wasn't exactly an unknown...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,025 Likes: 1
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,025 Likes: 1 |
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I think Bitonio will be somewhat of a steal, actually.
I didn't know anything about this guy when they drafted him, but liked how he was described (tough, physical, semi-nasty). Sounded like exactly the type of player Pettine wants.
Then I saw his highlight reel. He's quick...even at OT, but looked like he could have been called for holding on every play. Hopefully a coachable raw talent.
Yeah we're going off scouting reports with Bitonio. I'm just happy we upgraded the position. Lauvao out, Bitonio in. You're probably better right there. We'll see.
I hope it's one of those moves that goes under the radar because everything else is clicking too...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,614 Likes: 821
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,614 Likes: 821 |
I think Bitonio will fit in well.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,025 Likes: 1
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,025 Likes: 1 |
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I think Bitonio will fit in well.
I think so too. We need a bit of a jerk on that line. We're skilled, but I think we're missing that one guy with a bit of a mean streak.
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Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 Final draft thoughts
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