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I really wonder if it wasn't a few who riled up the many? I just don't know.
Yes, I believe that is exactly what it is... most people would find far fewer things offensive if it wasn't for Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and all of the other social media telling them they should be offended.
Heck look at Donald Sterling... people who don't follow the NBA, people who don't watch sports news, people who couldn't have told you what city the Clippers played in suddenly were calling for Sterling's head because a million people on Twitter told them they should.
yebat' Putin
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I really wonder if it wasn't a few who riled up the many? I just don't know.
Yes, I believe that is exactly what it is... most people would find far fewer things offensive if it wasn't for Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and all of the other social media telling them they should be offended.
Heck look at Donald Sterling... people who don't follow the NBA, people who don't watch sports news, people who couldn't have told you what city the Clippers played in suddenly were calling for Sterling's head because a million people on Twitter told them they should.
it's one of many reasons I quit reading my FB page. Too many people posting all these things and graphics about crap you know they wouldn't normally care about, but they need to post something to get their profile back to the top of everyone's wall, so as we all don't forget they exist. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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The Middle East basically castrated all the males and death marched the women across the Sahara to be concubines.
And I think the historical reference behind GRRM's "unsullied" from GOT.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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jc
I don't care if it's not intended to offend.
I don't care if their not offended.
I especially don't care about offended PC haters playing victim. That's getting older and worse than PC ever was in the first place.
What I care about is the consistent need for people to come out and loudly proclaim, "What's the big deal!?".
It's a big deal to someone or it wouldn't be an issue.
So the real issue is the priority of change something wrong or the priority of not allowing people to change things.
There's a lot of history buffs on here and I know if they check they'll see that team names, logos, mascots, and cities always have changed. The Washington Bullets changed their name and they still suck.
Change the name and can the even more offensive, yet irrationally defended, Chief W.....
A year from now no one will notice.
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So free speech is only applicable as long as "nobody is offended"?
Wow....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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j/c:
I think we might be getting off-track here w/slavery and racism. All groups have their good and bad. Judge each individual as an individual rather than a member of a group.
I think this goes back to is the Redskin name offensive and is the real reason people aren't upset over the name due to the Native Americans being such an insignificant minority because of their miniscule population? I believe the answer to both is yes.
Furthermore, I really don't see how any of you are going to be hurt if they do change the name. People say they don't care, but then get upset because some people want to change the name. That seems odd.
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Because white people have never been discriminated against in this country and discrimination is the necessary element for racism.
Racism is a belief that one group is superior, discrimination is acting on that belief..
And if you think certain groups of white people weren't discriminated against in this country or didn't face racism because of their nationality or religious beliefs then I would just have to say we disagree.
Not exactly true. Most definitions would agree with what I said, but there are definitions that would agree with yours.
Yes, I'm aware that Italians, Irish, and other non-Anglo white races were discriminated against for a few decades. But again, white people were never really discriminated against in America. Because even though some subsets of white people were discriminated against, they were discriminated against by white people.
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Just out of Curiosity , where would indentured slaves figure in ? discriminated against ?
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"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Just out of Curiosity , where would indentured slaves figure in ? discriminated against ?
Not sure how discriminated against they were. I'm not too familiar with indentured servants other than a few high school classes. Was it not just a contract that poor people signed to come to America? I know they were treated as slaves in terms of punishments, but they were granted freedom after their contract, right?
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They were, but many times the "bosses" would change up the conditions for emancipation... hence, my "exploited" comment above.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Yeah, I'd assume as much. I also don't know much about the literacy rate of England/France/Scotland/Ireland in the early 1500's to late 1600's, but I doubt most of their population could read. I would then assume that many people who signed contracts to be a servant didn't know what they were actually signing for.
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But again, white people were never really discriminated against in America. Because even though some subsets of white people were discriminated against, they were discriminated against by white people.
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But again, white people were never really discriminated against in America. Because even though some subsets of white people were discriminated against, they were discriminated against by white people.
Italians discriminating against Irish or vice versa is still racism.. different skin tones is not a prerequisite to apply racism. If the Chinese were to discriminate against the Japanese, it's racism, even though they are all Asians.
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So free speech is only applicable as long as "nobody is offended"?
Wow....
X2
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Yes, but you wouldn't say "Asians saw many forms of racism from Asians in Asia." You would point out the subgroups specifically, because the majority of the race is discriminating against the subgroup.
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Furthermore, I really don't see how any of you are going to be hurt if they do change the name. People say they don't care, but then get upset because some people want to change the name. That seems odd.
I personally wouldn't blink an eye if they changed their name. I personally think they could use it as a very positive PR campaign if they played it right...
I think what most people fear is this notion that if a few people get upset about something, then through social media recruit a bunch of other people to get upset on their behalf, that they can make enough noise to force you to abandon traditions and give in to their will... I don't care about the name of the Washington football team, I do care about the precedent it could set.
A lot of the people who are all offended by the name of the Washington football team called them the Redskins for decades without giving it a second thought before somebody told them they should be offended by it...
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Or until we were aware enough to see what we're doing is wrong.
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Furthermore, I really don't see how any of you are going to be hurt if they do change the name. People say they don't care, but then get upset because some people want to change the name. That seems odd.
I personally wouldn't blink an eye if they changed their name. I personally think they could use it as a very positive PR campaign if they played it right...
I think what most people fear is this notion that if a few people get upset about something, then through social media recruit a bunch of other people to get upset on their behalf, that they can make enough noise to force you to abandon traditions and give in to their will... I don't care about the name of the Washington football team, I do care about the precedent it could set.
A lot of the people who are all offended by the name of the Washington football team called them the Redskins for decades without giving it a second thought before somebody told them they should be offended by it...
Just so you know.........I may have clicked on your post, but I was not directly replying to you.
I disagree w/your second paragraph completely. Traditions? What traditions? Calling a team the "Redskins" is a tradition? Nah bro. It's just an insensitive name.
I also want to say that I did NOT need anyone to tell me to be offended by the name. I NEVER liked it. I don't read Twitter. I don't do FaceBook. It's an offensive name that isn't even based on truth. They are NOT "red."
I actually like the logo on the helmet. Just change the name to a tribe. Keep the logo. No big deal.
I'm telling you, DC.............if there was a name that offended either African Americans or homosexuals, it would have been changed long, long ago. It's just that not many people give a rat's butt about Native Americans because there are not enough of them to make a stink. I think that stinks and is beyond hypocritical.
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What about the Washington Warriors? They could keep the logo and colors. I know about the Golden State Warriors, but I don't think that is too big of a deal.
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No.
I assume you are referring to my comment about bitching about PC.
IMO say whatever the hell you want.
If somebody's offended decide what you're going to do about it.
I have no idea how this implies you don't have free speech, because it seems to me that complaining about PC is asking for someone to limit their speech.
And wow! is right. So is siss boom bah!
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I think what most people fear is this notion that if a few people get upset about something, then through social media recruit a bunch of other people to get upset on their behalf, that they can make enough noise to force you to abandon traditions and give in to their will... I don't care about the name of the Washington football team, I do care about the precedent it could set.
Or, you can talk about it being personal growth to recognize how something can be offensive to someone other than yourself, rather than make it sound as though it is a mindless following. In college, I took part of a panel on Chief Wahoo. I am a huge baseball fan and I took the stance that Wahoo was not offensive and needed to stay. I had letters to the editor published on the topic in newspapers and was part of an editorial board discussion that was nationally published. I was also 20 years old.
Now, 11 years later, I have a vastly different stance. I don't think that Wahoo is insanely offensive as those on the far sides of the debate portray it to be. But, I do now see that it is in poor taste. And while I won't be out there campaigning for its removal, I've come to accept that it is time for him to disappear to the attics of Cooperstown.
This opinion didn't come from social media. It came from the opportunities that I was presented to discuss the topic on many stages. It came from discussions with people on the other side who raised very fair points that I had never discussed growing up in a small, rural town in Central Ohio.
We live in a society where compromise and honest debate are now, somehow, frowned upon. We're supposed to develop strong opinions and stick to them. Changing your mind on an issue doesn't make you a mindless follower, it can mean that you are simply open to a different vantage point.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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j/c if as much time, effort and money was put into changing the connotation of the word back to a positive and proud word as intended when chosen to represnt the team rather then complaining how "racist' the word. Once the word has a positive connotation the haters can't hurt you by using it. A word can only hurt you if you let it...sticks and stones... 
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We live in a society where compromise and honest debate are now, somehow, frowned upon. We're supposed to develop strong opinions and stick to them. Changing your mind on an issue doesn't make you a mindless follower, it can mean that you are simply open to a different vantage point.
I agree.
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That was a very impressive post.
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IMO say whatever the hell you want.
I always have and fully intend to continue.
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If somebody's offended decide what you're going to do about it.
I have no idea how this implies you don't have free speech, because it seems to me that complaining about PC is asking for someone to limit their speech.
No, what bothers me is that people believe every time someone seems or feels offended, they expect action to be taken to sooth their sensibilities. People can say whatever they like. But when it gets to the point that they expect actions of others to change just because a name or phrase offends them, they aren't just talking.
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And wow! is right. So is siss boom bah!
When someone wishes to control the name of a business, yes, wow.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Changing your mind on an issue ... can mean that you are simply open to a different vantage point.
Fine, as long you allow for (the possibility of) changing your mind back again once you have (perhaps) found out that you were right in the first place.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Nobody needs to listen to the people who want to change the name. That type of ignoring has been going on forever. But that shouldn't stop people from stating their concerns and trying to get attention.
Just because you don't agree doesn't mean they're part of an advertising conspiracy.
Just say, "The name should stay", not, "Why do these people keep trying to change things?"
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I think you've missed my message. I don't believe it's an appropriate name myself.
My point is that businesses are privately owned. People have the right not to support such businesses. I don't have a problem with people voicing their displeasure. However, at some point, trying to force the hand of a private business to change their name is an infringement in and of itself.
My real concern is how society has come to a point that it feels it somehow has the right to force people to conform to their way of thinking. Not that I object to people stating their beliefs on things.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Column: Virginia tribal leaders aren't offended by 'Redskins' Wednesday, May 15, 2013 Filed Under: Opinion | Recognition | Sports More on: dc, football, mascots, racism, redskins, virginia Columnist says leaders of Virginia tribes who are fighting for federal recognition aren't offended by the Washington Redskins: What matters is how American Indians feel about an NFL team using “Redskins” as its nickname. “It doesn’t bother me,” said Robert Green, 66 and chief of the Patawomeck Tribe in Virginia. “About 98 percent of my tribe is Redskins fans, and it doesn’t offend them, either.” Kevin Brown, 58 and chief of the Pamunkey Tribe of Virginia, said, “I’m a Redskins fan, and I don’t think there’s any intention for (the nickname) to be derogatory. The majority of the people in my tribe don’t have a problem with it. There are a few who do, and we respect their feelings. G. Anne Richardson, chief of Virginia’s Rappahannock Tribe, had to stifle a laugh when asked her feelings on the Redskins’ nickname. “I don’t have an issue with it,” she said. “There are so many more issues that are important for the tribe than to waste time on what a team is called. We’re worried about real things, and I don’t consider that a real thing. http://www.indianz.com/News/2013/009717.asp
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And from what I've read on the matter, there are mixed feelings even among Native Americans. So the question becomes, at what point and how many people need to "feel offended" for people to try to force a name change down the throats of businesses?
I don't feel the name Redskins is an appropriate name. But it seems there are many Native Americans who have no problem with the name.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Didn't know that an unrecognized tribe is now the spokesmen for the entire populacec of native americans.
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What it shows is that not all, or maybe even most Native Americans are nearly as upset about this subject as some would like to have you believe.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Didn't know that an unrecognized tribe is now the spokesmen for the entire populacec of native americans.
And who is it that doesn't recognize them?
http://www.patawomeckindians.org/
Seems to me they are a tribe in the location of the Redskins.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Didn't know that an unrecognized tribe is now the spokesmen for the entire populacec of native americans.
And who is it that doesn't recognize them?
http://www.patawomeckindians.org/
Seems to me they are a tribe in the location of the Redskins.
Well .... what difference would that make? 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The Federal Government does not recognize them as an official tribe.
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The Federal Government does not recognize them as an official tribe.
It's Obamas fault 
Not sure what it means that the Federal Government doesn't recognize them.. If they are Indian, then that's about it right?
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The Federal Government does not recognize them as an official tribe.
It's Obamas fault
Not sure what it means that the Federal Government doesn't recognize them.. If they are Indian, then that's about it right?
There is a canyon of difference between a tribe recognized and one not recognized.
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Yea, I did totally miss your point. Sorry about that. Not for the sake of arguing, but discussion, I don't think Snyder HAS to change the name. He can hold on to it as long as he wants, but if he starts losing customers he may change his mind. I think one reason Chief Wahoo is still round is because there's not been enough public pressure to change it. I think it should go away, but I'm not on the street with signs and I still go to games. If the Indians think enough people are dissatisfied they'll change it. That's the marketing ingredient in all of this. Logos are marketed and fans react to them. Hopefully in a positive way. There's a whole history of businesses changing logos, advertising, recipes, ingredients, etc. based on public reaction, but they could have decided to avoid change and the Redskins can maintain their logo as long as they want too. Society has long reacted for good or bad to issues. I believe this reaction is an honest concern about right and wrong and whether or not our society should or should not allow these negative stereotypes. I think it's fair to argue whether or not it's actually negative, but I don't understand why people should have to be quiet about it. As far as congress voting...they still suck no matter what you call 'em. 
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The Redskins have a season ticket base with a waiting list of over 100K.
He won't be feeling pressure from fans not showing up anytime in the next couple of decades, if then.
Further, there are a relatively few vocal opponents to the name ..... but most people simply don't care all that much. I know that this issue isn't anywhere near the top of the list as far as important issues in my life.
As far as whether or not a tribe is "federally recognized" or not, does it really matter, if they are descendants of Native Americans? Don't they have just as much right to express their opinion, and shouldn't their opinion on this issue carry just as much weight as any other Native American individual and/or group?
You will never have 100% agreement on any issue In the US today, if you get over 50% agreement in the general public, you're doing pretty good. It seems to me that there are a very small minority who are strongly concerned about this issue, even among Native Americans.
As far as Chief Wahoo ..... who cares? Many teams have caricatures as their primary or secondary logo. Do I find them offensive? No. Why? Because they are just that ..... a caricature. The Patriots, Raiders, Bucs, Vikings, Redskins, Cavaliers, Indians, Senators, and Celtics ... off the top of my head ..... use caricatures as either their primary or secondary logos. I am sure there are others, not to mention college teams that do so. Why? Because they are identifiable. The generic "C" being used to identify the Indians means almost nothing to me. When I go looking for the Indians out of a list of teams, I often have to look several times because that block C just doesn't say "Indians" to me.
I will also add one other comment. It wasn't that long ago that the Braves were the target of "mounting public pressure" to change their name, logo, chant, and so on. Now these groups have moved on to the Redskins. The Braves have largely been removed from the national argument. I don't think that any of these teams will give in, because they have invested far too much in their team identies to give them up easily.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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