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The good:
The running backs in Tate, West and some of the later-string like Baker had a good showing. catching hte ball, finding holes, making people miss, Tate and West I think are going to be one of the strongholds of the team and Kyle will continue to dial in run plays with these threats.
Hitner is for sure an enforcer.
I thought Roberston and Kirksey showed some hope for that ILB position.
The bad:
A lot of flags. We continued to stab ourselves in the neck with those mindless flags.
Austin and that drop. I only included this b/c it seems like Austin is going to have to the be person we bank on when/if Gordon is not in session. We need him to make all those catches, especially when the ball is thrown well.
Hoyer and his accuracy of his long balls was way off. High balls. Hoyer, if he wants to make a case for himself, needs to hold up to his accuracy which he gets credit for since he doesn't have the mobility aspect like JF has. He didn't do so.
Not much back-up/depth at o-line. Second team and thereafter looked a bit sketchy.
Bad tackling. Mingo, Desir are the two that stuck out the most IMO.
The ugly:
Desir at cornerback.
Yet again, offense that could move the ball, but couldn't find a way to get a TD outta it.
Special teams coverage.
Refs seemed a little lost out there. That fumble call that Bademosi recovered, man... if that was a regular season game I had been sooooooooo pissed on that one! Other bad calls too.
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I didn't see the game the way you did. I don't think the offense changed. Neither qb was under center much, but both did take snaps there. I thought the play calling was very similar, but we did run two read/option plays[that I remember] w/JM.
I think that perhaps your personal feelings for him might have clouded your judgement. Just give the kid a chance.
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I'm sorry ... dyslexia or something. 49 is Westerman. 94 is Justin Staples.
Staples is a St. Edward product.
he was a beast last night.
Meh.
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I see a lot of people praising West on these game day threads, but I was disappointed. He had one real nice run, but otherwise, he looked indecisive, somewhat slow, and provided a big target.
So, I looked up his stats: 10 carries for 22 yards. He had a long carry of 10 yds, which is the nice run I mentioned, but other than that....he looked Very TRich-ish.
I am also a little confused on the praise for Bitonio. I was trying to watch him, and I have a pretty good handle on good OL play, but it was very difficult to tell. The one guy who I noticed getting some seal blocks was Grecco, but other than that, the camera angles didn't allow for a very good evaluation of the OL.
LOL..........are you guys just saying these things about West and Bitonio because they were drafted high this year?
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I saw Bitonio get to the second level on a few runs, which is a very positive sign for a rookie in his first live action. I mean, I'd settle for him to not get destroyed and be a revolving door like we've seen for a decade.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I see a lot of people praising West on these game day threads, but I was disappointed. He had one real nice run, but otherwise, he looked indecisive, somewhat slow, and provided a big target.
So, I looked up his stats: 10 carries for 22 yards. He had a long carry of 10 yds, which is the nice run I mentioned, but other than that....he looked Very TRich-ish.
I thought petty much the same thing. I don't think he was all that. Tate was clearly better. (IMO)
West will be good. he has to get the jitters out.
Meh.
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Remember, west was getting hit in the backfield a lot by TWO defenders. Even AP is gonna get stuck in situations like that.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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j/c
not one thing about Jordan Poyer? I don't know if that's good or bad lol.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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So, I looked up his stats: 10 carries for 22 yards. He had a long carry of 10 yds, which is the nice run I mentioned, but other than that....he looked Very TRich-ish.
West is a rookie - and flashed some great moves and toughness after contact. He was tackled in the backfield a bunch of times on run option plays where someone was a step away as he was given the ball. Using those stats is a false indicator if you ask me. He passed the eye test. Was he perfect? No. Did I say I thought Tate looked better and more decisive? Yes. Do I think West looks like he might be a quality RB in the NFL, yes.
Because i was watching the game by myself and most interested in the 1's than anything else, I repeatedly rewound plays and watched Bitonio. . . . he picked up a defender and pushed them back on running plays every rewind I watched. He didn't pancake anyone. . . he just looked solid. Again - he's a rookie. He's playing his first ever "game" in the NFL and he's doing it against a very very very talented DL. He looks like he's going to be a stud to me. It has ZERO to do with where he was drafted, whether i want him to do well or otherwise.... its all about what he did on the field.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
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Probably having to cut one or both - Cromwell and Lewis.
I think Lewis' fumble sealed his fate. I think that he's as good as gone.
It's not his fault that he suffered a broken leg last year, but the fumbles have got to stop. I don't even remember seeing Crowell in the backfield, only on the special teams squad.
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Probably having to cut one or both - Cromwell and Lewis.
I think Lewis' fumble sealed his fate. I think that he's as good as gone.
It's not his fault that he suffered a broken leg last year, but the fumbles have got to stop. I don't even remember seeing Crowell in the backfield, only on the special teams squad.
Agreed. I was intrigued with Lewis last year, but I don't think they'll keep a 4th RB with fumbling issues. Tate, West, Oby, and maybe Baker
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Good - The first team OL run blocked and pass protected really well. Tate and West both ripped off some 8-10 yard runs, and Hoyer was never touched. That was against a good front four, too. Kirksey looked good, but I agree with Ytown that the pass defensed by Robertson, which Wilcots complimented, was more a drop by the receiver who had beaten Robertson.
Bad - Drops, fumbles, missed tackles, poor special teams coverage. Penalties - Lions had 6 first downs by penalty - that's a lot. Settling for field goals will always come back to haunt you - gotta get into the endzone. But its the first preseason game, so we'll hope for improvement.
Ugly - The referees and the rule changes. How they didn't award that fumble to the Browns is beyond me - it could have sealed the game. At worst, we kick yet another field goal, and its a 9 point lead when the Lions get the ball back with just over 2 minutes left in the game. The rule changes re: contact beyond the 5 yard chuck line is just the latest in a long string of rules that have left defenses almost completely hamstrung. God, I'm sick of Goodell and the rules committee sucking up to casual fans who just want to see scoring. IMO, they're killing the game.
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.. " they're killing the game." ... Yep ! .. Folks need to start some kind of write in campaign ..
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j/c
Manziel has some Bret Farve zip on his passes and he was our best RB last night. If he had the first string line in front of him, he would have put up some td's. When he gets comfortable with the offense, Hoyer is toast.
GO BROWNS!
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I agree with your "zip" comment .. in fact, his throws were too hard sometimes ... but he definitely has a cannon compared to Hoyer
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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To me, his arm strength has been the most pleasant surprise so far.
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Me too. His feet don't have to be set at all for him to still get a lot on throws
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Probably having to cut one or both - Cromwell and Lewis.
I think Lewis' fumble sealed his fate. I think that he's as good as gone.
It's not his fault that he suffered a broken leg last year, but the fumbles have got to stop. I don't even remember seeing Crowell in the backfield, only on the special teams squad.
Agreed. I was intrigued with Lewis last year, but I don't think they'll keep a 4th RB with fumbling issues. Tate, West, Oby, and maybe Baker
I don't think they'll even keep Ogbonnaya. If they keep him, it's because special teams play, not to be a RB. Not that he can't do it, but he also had his fumble troubles.
I think they do keep four RBs but that they are Tate (5'10", 220#), who they brought in; West (5'10", 225#). who they drafted; Crowell (5'11", 225#), who they signed as an UDFA; and Baker (5'8", 210#), who runs hard but is smaller with a similar build to the others. I also think they keep Agnew (5'10", ~ 245#); who they signed as an UDFA to be the fullback. I think that by the time everything is said and done, MarQueis Gray will be a TE and backup FB.
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without me looking, did OBY or Crowell have any rushing attempts last night?
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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without me looking, did OBY or Crowell have any rushing attempts last night?
No.
#gmstrong
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doesn't bode well for OBY at least then. He did have a nice ST tackle though
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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j/c
Manziel has some Bret Farve zip on his passes and he was our best RB last night. If he had the first string line in front of him, he would have put up some td's. When he gets comfortable with the offense, Hoyer is toast.
You just want invited to Manziel's parties.
I saw some rookie mistakes in Manziel's game. They can be corrected but it isn't going to be immediate. I think Manziel has his opportunity in the next game to see if he can improve his chances.
However, I will say this much, if Manziel struggles behind the Browns first team (remember, they know Shanahan's playbook) and Haslett is still there as Washington's DC.
Maybe Manziel can improve and put on a performance as many expect him to, but I'll hold my judgment for the completion of the preseason.
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without me looking, did OBY or Crowell have any rushing attempts last night?
I don't think so. I think it was just Tate, West, Baker and Lewis that got carries as far as the RBs go.
Lewis didn't get many chances and fumbled once. Tate also dropped the rock, which is concerning since they brought him in. He'll need to hold onto it if he doesn't want to lose the primary RB spot to West.
I'd like to see West get more opportunities with the starting OL and see what we can do.
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Yeah, Ogbonnaya did have a nice ST tackle and that might get him a roster spot. Being able to run and catch the ball out of the backfield (as a reserve?) might earn him a roster spot.
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I didn't see the game the way you did. I don't think the offense changed. Neither qb was under center much, but both did take snaps there. I thought the play calling was very similar, but we did run two read/option plays[that I remember] w/JM.
I think that perhaps your personal feelings for him might have clouded your judgement. Just give the kid a chance.
I agree. I thought I recalled 2 designed runs where JM could keep the ball and that was it. He scrambled a few times out of necessity (maybe a touch early but that's to be expected early on).. Almost all of his throws were from the pocket, seemed to be under center about the same % as Hoyer. I really didn't notice much of a difference at all.
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That's the one issue that I'm concerned with because we really don't have a RB who's a great threat to catch a pass.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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well i am drinking the coolaide Johny Football is serving. What he overcame in last nights game is being overlooked. I was very impressed. I see the making of a franchise Qb in this kid.
I wasalso impressed with how Hoyer rebounded. He looked like a starting QB.
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well i am drinking the coolaide Johny Football is serving. What he overcame in last nights game is being overlooked. I was very impressed. I see the making of a franchise Qb in this kid.
I wasalso impressed with how Hoyer rebounded. He looked like a starting QB.
+1
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That's the one issue that I'm concerned with because we really don't have a RB who's a great threat to catch a pass.
I'm not so sure about that. I don't think we know what we have back there. We didn't implement many passes to the RBs during the game last night.
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I'm just recalling Tate with the Texans and West's scouting report coming into the draft ... not what I've actually seen at any pracitce
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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well i am drinking the kool-aid Johny Football is serving. What he overcame in last nights game is being overlooked. I was very impressed. I see the making of a franchise Qb in this kid.
I was also impressed with how Hoyer rebounded. He looked like a starting QB.
Well, I'll wait until I see more from Manziel. I liked what I saw from Hoyer although we didn't get into the end zone with him as QB. To be fair, we didn't with any of the other QBs either.
Manziel certainly has wheels to run but I'm not sure that's what we really want out of him. We need a QB, not a runner.
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I really love the philiosophy of taking a guy who is supremely unique at moving and frustrating defenses and completely changing his style of play and making him a pure pocket passer. Brilliant!! I dont see any flaws with this philosophy what so ever. 
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I'm just recalling Tate with the Texans and West's scouting report coming into the draft ... not what I've actually seen at any pracitce
Well, neither one has caught a lot of passes out of the backfield, including Crowell. In limited time last season, you might say that Edwin Baker might be the most familiar with the play.  But, it'll have to be something that they work on. It has to be a bigger part of the planning that what we saw last night. I'm not convinced, looking at Shanahan's past performance, that we'll get a lot of passes to RBs.
I wonder if Shanahan can do a better job of calling a game and getting the RBs more involved in the passing game.
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Well, I'll wait until I see more from Manziel. I liked what I saw from Hoyer although we didn't get into the end zone with him as QB. To be fair, we didn't with any of the other QBs either.
Manziel certainly has wheels to run but I'm not sure that's what we really want out of him. We need a QB, not a runner.
I sat and watched, like everybody else, the play of the QBs and I honestly didn't notice a big difference in how Hoyer and Manziel looked from the pocket. Hoyer, because of experience, might have been a half second quicker with some of his decisions.. but as far as making plays from the pocket, moving around in the pocket, throwing with velocity and accuracy... I don't think Hoyer looked any better than JM from the pocket. JM still has a little more inclination to run that Hoyer does but that is something a lot of college QBs have to learn to overcome when they come into the NFL...
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I really love the philiosophy of taking a guy who is supremely unique at moving and frustrating defenses and completely changing his style of play and making him a pure pocket passer. Brilliant!! I dont see any flaws with this philosophy what so ever.
Hmm, not sure where this comes from but this is the NFL, not college. Manziel is going to get walloped quite a bit running around like he does. I get it, you're sold. I'm not quite as sold on him as you are and I don't think he outperformed Hoyer. I'll hand it to him though, he seems to have the sliding motion down. Hoyer didn't have that last year.
I didn't see an NFL starting caliber QB yet from Manziel. Then again, I didn't see it with Weeden either.
If Manziel is named the starter, I hope to God that you're right and he's all that and a bag of chips.
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Well, I'll wait until I see more from Manziel. I liked what I saw from Hoyer although we didn't get into the end zone with him as QB. To be fair, we didn't with any of the other QBs either.
Manziel certainly has wheels to run but I'm not sure that's what we really want out of him. We need a QB, not a runner.
I sat and watched, like everybody else, the play of the QBs and I honestly didn't notice a big difference in how Hoyer and Manziel looked from the pocket. Hoyer, because of experience, might have been a half second quicker with some of his decisions.. but as far as making plays from the pocket, moving around in the pocket, throwing with velocity and accuracy... I don't think Hoyer looked any better than JM from the pocket. JM still has a little more inclination to run that Hoyer does but that is something a lot of college QBs have to learn to overcome when they come into the NFL...
Well, I'll point to one play in particular. On the play where Manziel ran for the 1st down (by a hair), he had either Gray or Agnew out in front of him, wide open and looking for the ball and he could have passed for it, but opted to keep it. Had he completed the pass, the Browns would have had at least 5 yards more on the play. He chose to tuck it and run.
A better QB, confident in the abilities of his teammates, would have made the pass. Maybe he'll be instructed to do it and he'll learn from it.
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I thought Hoyer read the field, went to secondary options more than Manziel. Johnny seemed to be one look and either throw, or run. I recall one play where Hoyer was looking down the center of the field from the pocket, then turned and threw to the right. I'm sure Manziel will learn, but IMO he's still trying to catch up. I also thought Hoyer was quicker getting the ball out and more calm in the pocket - but he was working with the one's. Be interesting to see Manziel with the ones next Monday.
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I really love the philiosophy of taking a guy who is supremely unique at moving and frustrating defenses and completely changing his style of play and making him a pure pocket passer. Brilliant!! I dont see any flaws with this philosophy what so ever.
A couple read options, a couple roll outs, a couple naked bootlegs, a couple broken play scrambles for positive yardage.. not exactly sure what it is you want to see... do you expect the Browns to implement the sandlot offense of everybody run around and get open and JM will make a play?
Teach the kid to be a pocket passer first, get him in a position to make a designed play with his legs once in a while, and when things do break down, let him do his thing.. I believe that is exactly how this should work.
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JM still has a little more inclination to run that Hoyer does but that is something a lot of college QBs have to learn to overcome when they come into the NFL...
The pocket sure seemed to collapse around Manziel moreso than Hoyer, who had the 1st OL. Wilcots also said that 2 of those runs were designed plays. I hope we see JF with the 1's next week.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
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Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season Looking Back: Lions 13 - Browns
12 The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly
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