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Quote:
The guy's kind of a dunce, so there's some hesitation on that front,
I haven't heard that. What do you base that on?
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Quote:
Quote:
The guy's kind of a dunce, so there's some hesitation on that front,
I haven't heard that. What do you base that on?
The fact that he appears in a shirtless mugshot was my first clue. I guess it's a bit of a circumstantial claim, but if you appear in a shirtless mugshot, you're probably not the sharpest crayon in the box.
Giving the cop not one, but two fake ID's was another clue.
Taunting Rice players when he was up by 30.
The money phone thing.
Hanging out with Justin Beiber and Floyd Mayweather.
Getting photographed rolling up money in a bathroom.
He's not exactly a rocket scientist.
I will say that there's a difference between football IQ and general intelligence/common sense. Ben Roethlisberger doesn't have much going on upstairs, but he knows what to do on the field.
Manziel is a boom-bust guy...I lean bust. The odds aren't high. But I'm definitely glued to my seat.
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Just to add my 2 cents. Most has already been said.
Good
West. I actually saw a few nice plays from him. Tate did well too.
Blocking. All around looked good. I thought Schwartz did a decent job for the most part. He got upfield pretty well.
Gabriel and #80. Thought they stepped up.
Bad
Taylor. I would give a lot more snaps to Winn and A. Bryant in his place.
Ugly
Penalties and discipline
Catching balls
I still feel like our defense lacks urgency and mental toughness.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Dang.....................there were some excellent posts on this thread since I last visited.
Pit..........you surprised me w/your analysis. You can be a bit of a bulldog when you get an idea in your head, but man, that was impressive.
DC........great points. You too, Clem, water, and Rish.
PDR.........you impressed me that you gave JM props, but I respectfully disagree w/your point about JM being a dunce. He scored a 32 on the Wonderlic, highest of any of this year's qbs. Also higher than guys like P. Manning and other smart qbs. No, the Wonderlick is not a tell-all, but if you ever listen to the guy speak, it's obvious he is extremely intelligent. If you watched Grudin's interview......it's obvious JM is intelligent. The kid is picking up this offense quick, especially considering what he ran in college.
I really, really wanted Teddy on the Browns, but JM is winning me over.
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You know what's crazy, guys.................I have never once been a fan of any of the QBs we drafted high. But, I am becoming a big fan of Manziel.
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J/C ...... Manziel did have to learn the WCO behind Ryan Tannehill, as a redshirt freshman.
Granted, he was only on the travel squad, but I think that shows that he did learn the offense to an acceptable level.
When Tannehill went to the NFL draft, his coach went with him. That is when Manziel went to a less structured kind of offense. However, he does have some experience with the verbiage and concepts.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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That is a good point. Thanks for bringing that up.
Also, I think this needs clarified. There has been a lot of talk about JM's playbook and such, but their offense did call for him to go through progressions. Check out the Gruden interview as evidence of this. There are other examples, but that might be the easiest to find.
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Quote:
The Good: ...
Good analysis. Finally watched the rest of the game on DVR yesterday. Your take is a fine assessment. Thanks. 
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Thanks Johnny.
Btw----do you play either the guitar or the piano?
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I would like to comment however, I only listened to the game on radio so therefore I really can't add to the comments already made... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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As you know, I wanted Bridgewater too. I have some concerns based on my opinion about most draft picks in one form or the other. I still worry about Johnny Football being injured by running at times he may not have to. But as time goes on I think he will learn and that will be less of a concern. But once a player is drafted, he's a Brown. He's one of our guys. So while I may have some pre-conceived notions, I keep an open mind when I watch them play. As I said, I was really impressed. Now that he's been drafted by the Browns, I hope he ends up being a fantastic QB for years to come. The only difference this time, is I don't have to sit here and convince myself of it. I actually see the real potential for that to happen. I'm still not going to excuse some of the stupid things he does during the off season.  But those are two separate things and I will always treat them as such. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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The ugly is the anti-defense stance taken by the NFL. It would seem they HATED Seattle winning a Super Bowl. They despise defense and have said straight up they want to "open the air game up even more". So now, it is illegal to play defense. Hell, our coach had our DB's wearing boxing gloves to simulate how they need to play now. I say, send them out on the field with them on. Show everyone how the NFL has tied the hands of the defense. Looks like we screwed up big time taking a corner so high in the draft. The NFL has made playing corner obsolete.
Might just as well not line any DB's up on WR's. And the WR position has become even MORE important now that guarding them is illegal. Next draft we need to select as many WR's as possible. Line up 6 of them and throw every down. Because the NFL is DESPERATE to see triple digit scoring. So to win we need to score as many points through the air as possible without regard to a side of the ball that is fast becoming obsolete.
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You know, you might be on to something here and it might be a good topic in the Pro Football forum. Think about it..................considering the new rules and the direction of the league, is it really sound strategy to build a team around defense and running the ball?
I mean, I love that philosophy, but if the NFL is going to make the rules that penalize those types of teams, is it really sound strategy?
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But is it really a new rule or merely a stricter enforcement of the long time "no contact after 5 yard" rule? Personally, I think the refs have been calling it right for a quite a while. It didn't need to get stricter. However... In the spirit of '77's take, I say we trade away all our DBs and replace them with huge, tall, fast, athletic DL types. Have them play nose up on the WRs, giving just a one yard cushion, and then knock them on their ass at the snap. That's the ticket.
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My mistake. I should have said, w/the new enforcement of the rules....
Bro, you are making light of this rule, but it is a concern. I watched the Denver/Seattle game and it was an absolute travesty how those calls killed the flow of the game.
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I don't feel I'm making light of it other than trying to be funny in my take of Spirtbro77's post.
As little as I know of evaluation the position I think DBs need to be allowed to at least have a hand on a WR at times. No clutching/grabbing, etc, but, I think they need that to keep track of the WR when they're looking back at the QB.
The rule states the DB has to be looking back at the ball when it comes in and it just seems to me that in the act of doing that a DB can "lose track" of the WR in that split second. We see virtually all of them use their hands. Sometimes they grab and get caught. Sometimes they don't get caught. Probably most times they don't grab. But overall I don't know that they need to get stricter in their calls.
If they do then I'm mistaken. It just seems like there's going to be a festival of calls going against DBs if they call it in the regular season like they're doing in the preseason.
On the other hand I suppose everyone plays with the same rules so it could benefit our offense as much as it does the opponent's.
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I doubt that our WRs garner much respect from NFL officials, unless of course, Gordon isn't suspended. Not saying we have to agree, ddub. I just hate the freaking rule. I played a lot of sports. Was pretty good. They say hitting a fastball is the hardest thing to do, but for me...........covering some fast, quick, elusive, receiver who knows where he is going and you don't know where he is going--was the hardest thing I ever did. I got the crap beat out of me playing RB. I was our offense. I played PG in a very competitive league w/guys a lot, lot taller than me. I played SS and batter either 1st or 3rd in the lineup, but nothing made me more nervous than having to cover some dude all over the field. There was a reason they moved me to Monster back, which is kinda like a SS. 
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jc
I finally got the chance to watch it today, and here were some of my thoughts......
The good....
Both QBs played well. Hoyer's ability to anticipate is excellent and he really makes the life of his OL much easier with how quickly he gets rid of the ball. JFF just has a ton of talent and a bigger arm than many (including myself) give him credit for. I feel loads better about our QB situation than I did last year. Refreshing to have a QB competition where both guys don't suck..lol. After Tim/Holcomb, DA/Quinn, and Weeden/Colt it's refreshing to say the least.
1st team OL.....Tough to know how much was them or Hoyer unloading it quickly in the passing game, but they ran blocked very well and Tate and West had plenty of nice holes to run through.
RBs........I thought both guys played well. West danced a bit as a lot of young guys do, but you can see the quick feet and power that he was billed to be. Another position I feel a ton better about.
Gray and Agnew(?).....Great having a FB back in the offense and both guys played well.
Really liked Charles Johnson and Gabriel......hope those guys get more of chance to contribute.
Kirksey is a pick I hated, and it shows just how much I know...lol. Albeit it is just one PS game, but he looked really good especially in coverage.
Robertson looked a ton better in coverage and played a very good game overall.
I thought the DLine played well for the most part.
The Bad
Coverage was spotty at best. Desir was a guy I really liked going into the draft but I don't know if he has the change of direction skills to play effective CB at this level. I'm not ready to bury a guy after one PS game, but certainly do not have the high hopes I had for him coming into this season.
The Lions 1st team O just carved us up through the air......uggh.
I think every OLB on the roster got beat on the same freaking seal run to the outside.....uggh again.
The Ugly
The tackling was putrid. Again just the first PS game I know, but good grief it was aweful.
Better hope that the first team OLers stay healthy because we have JACK crap on that 2nd unit.
I'm looking forward to JFF starting (assuming here), because it will give us a better idea of how well he can perform from within the pocket. There shouldn't be the same type of need to improvise with the 1st team OL as it was with the scrubs he played with last game. I am also looking forward to see how Hoyer plays with out the ideal protection in front of him.....want to see if he can make them look better with the quick release.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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I see a lot of blown out knees and torn up ankles this season as I look for the DB's to adjust and go for the shots to the legs AFTER the catch this season. IMO that is not good for the game 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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J/C
As per Browns Beat on Facebook quoting PFF. JF pressured on 7 out of 13 dropbacks with less than 3 seconds from the snap. Just a FWIW.
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Thanks Riddler. I heard someone talk about Johnny holding the ball too long, but I didn't see him have the opportunity to do that..lol. No doubt Hoyer gets the ball out quick, but it will be interesting to see him work behind the 2nd unit imo.
I like seeing guys work outside their comfort zone to see how they will respond. Johnny having to play in a structured setting and not improvise as much, and Hoyer having to improvise when his first read isn't open is what I look forward to the most next week......want to see who responds well.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Quote:
J/C
As per Browns Beat on Facebook quoting PFF. JF pressured on 7 out of 13 dropbacks with less than 3 seconds from the snap. Just a FWIW.
That is kind of what I thought. he was pressured quickly quite a lot.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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No probs fellas. Now i'll do a disclaimer.  I went on PFF and looked for that but i'm a bit of a noob on that site. I know some dawgs here use it a lot so wouldn't mind seeing it posted from the horses mouth so to speak. Also, for comparisions sake, if anyone wants to take up the research maybe compare Hoyers' stats into the bargain. I don't necessarily know what constitutes "pressures" either as we all know that stats can be manipulated to mean anything. I have something in my head about what it would mean but say for example Johnny took off running early and ran into pressure before releasing, would that end up in this column? I know this stat (pressures v's seconds) was quite big/oft quoted when analyzing Weedens' failings last season so just thought it was interesting to share.
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I think that Weeden created a lot of his own pressure last year.
I also think that the OL got a bad rap.
If you look at the number of passes vs number of sacks for Weeden as opposed to those numbers for Hoyer and Campbell, it is obvious that Weeden put himself into trouble frequently. Both Hoyer and Campbell were far superior in making quick decisions, understanding what they saw on defense, and in understanding how to move in the pocket. Weeden just never got those things.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Agreed and i remember those discussions (as a lurker!)
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Quote:
I don't feel I'm making light of it other than trying to be funny in my take of Spirtbro77's post.
As little as I know of evaluation the position I think DBs need to be allowed to at least have a hand on a WR at times. No clutching/grabbing, etc, but, I think they need that to keep track of the WR when they're looking back at the QB.
The rule states the DB has to be looking back at the ball when it comes in and it just seems to me that in the act of doing that a DB can "lose track" of the WR in that split second. We see virtually all of them use their hands. Sometimes they grab and get caught. Sometimes they don't get caught. Probably most times they don't grab. But overall I don't know that they need to get stricter in their calls.
If they do then I'm mistaken. It just seems like there's going to be a festival of calls going against DBs if they call it in the regular season like they're doing in the preseason.
On the other hand I suppose everyone plays with the same rules so it could benefit our offense as much as it does the opponent's.
You may not think they need to, but they are going to and so far this season they ARE. If a DB even touches a WR a flag is thrown. I saw a WR push off BIG TIME and the refs called it on the DB. The NFL flat out said it's because they want to open up the air game even further. A lot of the announcers have said it's a reaction to Seattle winning the SB last year. The league really hated that a team won playing D and running the ball. That's not the kind of football they want winning. They want the Peyton Manning, throw every down and score 50 points a game football. And they are going to make sure that is what the league produces. Seattle is a one and done team. No way the NFL lets them win another one. Doubt they make the playoffs. I weep for the future of this once great sport. They are killing football.
You think our offense can score as many points as the Broncos? Or New England? You see a QB on this team that can throw 50 TD's? Who's he going to throw all those TD's to? Teams that have big time QB's and or have talented WR corps are going to benefit from this. Teams with rookie or less than stellar QB's with mediocre WR corps are going to be left in the dust. When your HC has your DB's wearing boxing gloves in practice, the writings on the wall man. I'll bet we see a team score 60 points this season. And it sure as hell won't be the Browns.
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I also think that the OL got a bad rap.
This was my thought last year at times, too. Weeden was SO hesitant and slow (didn't he have the slowest release in the NFL?) Also, Campbell was the master of the check down ... never looked down the field even with a lot of time. Our OL wasn't as "bad" as some pundits claimed.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Teams that have big time QB's and or have talented WR corps are going to benefit from this.
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j/c from profootballfocus.com Quote:
Comparing Manziel’s play to Brian Hoyer’s(+.4 in 14 dropbacks) is almost impossible though. Manziel was playing behind an offensive line that was getting completely manhandled. Manziel faced pressure on seven of his dropbacks, all in under 3 seconds, while Hoyer saw pressure on only four.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/08/10/refo-browns-lions-preseason-week-1/
you had a good run Hank.
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The fact that he appears in a shirtless mugshot was my first clue. I guess it's a bit of a circumstantial claim, but if you appear in a shirtless mugshot, you're probably not the sharpest crayon in the box.
Giving the cop not one, but two fake ID's was another clue.
Taunting Rice players when he was up by 30.
The money phone thing.
Hanging out with Justin Beiber and Floyd Mayweather.
Getting photographed rolling up money in a bathroom.
He's not exactly a rocket scientist.
LOL.. I've done 3 of those things when I was in college and the only reason I haven't had selfies taken with a bunch of celebrities is because they wouldn't let me hang out with them when I was in my early 20s and because nobody knew what a selfie was.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Quote:
The fact that he appears in a shirtless mugshot was my first clue. I guess it's a bit of a circumstantial claim, but if you appear in a shirtless mugshot, you're probably not the sharpest crayon in the box.
Giving the cop not one, but two fake ID's was another clue.
Taunting Rice players when he was up by 30.
The money phone thing.
Hanging out with Justin Beiber and Floyd Mayweather.
Getting photographed rolling up money in a bathroom.
He's not exactly a rocket scientist.
LOL.. I've done 3 of those things when I was in college and the only reason I haven't had selfies taken with a bunch of celebrities is because they wouldn't let me hang out with them when I was in my early 20s and because nobody knew what a selfie was.
That's not really a great argument though, DC. We all know you aren't too bright.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
j/c
from profootballfocus.com
Quote:
Comparing Manziel’s play to Brian Hoyer’s(+.4 in 14 dropbacks) is almost impossible though. Manziel was playing behind an offensive line that was getting completely manhandled. Manziel faced pressure on seven of his dropbacks, all in under 3 seconds, while Hoyer saw pressure on only four.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/08/10/refo-browns-lions-preseason-week-1/
I think it's safe to say that Manziel was playing behind a "Shaffer-esque" offensive line. Possibly "Cousins-esque."
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I think it's safe to say that Manziel was playing behind a "Shaffer-esque" offensive line. Possibly "Cousins-esque."
 
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Quote:
Quote:
The fact that he appears in a shirtless mugshot was my first clue. I guess it's a bit of a circumstantial claim, but if you appear in a shirtless mugshot, you're probably not the sharpest crayon in the box.
Giving the cop not one, but two fake ID's was another clue.
Taunting Rice players when he was up by 30.
The money phone thing.
Hanging out with Justin Beiber and Floyd Mayweather.
Getting photographed rolling up money in a bathroom.
He's not exactly a rocket scientist.
LOL.. I've done 3 of those things when I was in college and the only reason I haven't had selfies taken with a bunch of celebrities is because they wouldn't let me hang out with them when I was in my early 20s and because nobody knew what a selfie was.
Right. I mean who hasn't taunted the Rice football team when up by 30pts.
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Quote:
Quote:
The fact that he appears in a shirtless mugshot was my first clue. I guess it's a bit of a circumstantial claim, but if you appear in a shirtless mugshot, you're probably not the sharpest crayon in the box.
Giving the cop not one, but two fake ID's was another clue.
Taunting Rice players when he was up by 30.
The money phone thing.
Hanging out with Justin Beiber and Floyd Mayweather.
Getting photographed rolling up money in a bathroom.
He's not exactly a rocket scientist.
LOL.. I've done 3 of those things when I was in college and the only reason I haven't had selfies taken with a bunch of celebrities is because they wouldn't let me hang out with them when I was in my early 20s and because nobody knew what a selfie was.
I'm going to guess shirtless mugshot and giving a cop a fake, getting busted and giving him another fake?
Not sure what the last could be.
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I'm going with taunting Rice players, hanging with Beibs and Mayweather, and not being a rocket scientist.
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I guess I'll say it again.
We've had talent less choir boys playing QB for the Browns for 15 years.
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Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season Looking Back: Lions 13 - Browns
12 The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly
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