DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Even More Johnny Manziel discussion . . .

Hoyer should take back up QB money for a 2-3 year deal here. If he doesn't it shows he's delusional on how other teams would pay more. He's a backup anywhere he goes in the NFL.

mac, do you actually think Hoyer is worth more than a backup-level contract?

First we need to establish if the team is competitive and the problem has been the QB.

The way I see it Hoyer was the main responsible on the good things we did in O, we just have to look into his W/L stats.


People who are dismissing Hoyer and saying our sucess is due to Alex Mack aforget that Mack has played for several seasons here without any success.

Reality is that without Hoyer, i.e. with JM and Weeden we look pathethic, so lets see how JM does until the rest of the year. either way we should resign Hoyer.

Other thing we must see is how good our OL is, and how comes a line with so many talent can play so bad and be dominated the DLs.

One of the big problems I saw this year was the lack of effort from some players, and IMHO no matter what your name is, either you bring your A game or you should sit on the bench, or go fishing.

Agreed

If I was Hoyer, I would sign with almost anyone else rather than the Browns

Do you honestly think Hoyer wouldn't get a starter contract from another team? I actually think he would be successfull on a team like the Texans, Bears, or Buffalo. All of which are in need of a QB in the offseason. Actually, with all the playmakers in Chicago, I think he would light it up.

Honestly don't understand how fans can say Hoyer should go because he is not the solution.

Have you seen how we play without Hoyer at QB....

I was a big Hoyer fan, I liked his story and his character and his natural love for Cleveland, I wanted him to turn into our franchise QB.

For a minute there it looked like it could happen.

This past month was bad. The guy threw 7 INTs in four games? And had a streak where he lead 1 TD drive in 29 possessions? You had to make a change because the offense was stagnant with him behind center. Even in a handful of our wins he had a lot of really rough patches of play where he would make bad reads and under throw passes.

I'm grateful the guy got us seven wins, but he's also a big reason that we had six losses prior to last Sunday.

Johnny Manziel didn't look good, but absolutely nobody on the team did either this past Sunday. The coaching staff set this team up for failure by trying to change the entire offensive philosophy in one week.

I like Brian Hoyer, and would welcome him back for modest money and a backup role, but the guy doesn't have the physical or mental talent to ever lead a team on a DEEP playoff run...

The playoffs are where you see the BEST teams, and he's done nothing but STRUGGLE against good teams. (Even some bad ones).

[color:#FFF380]eo...OMG...you want Cutler?

Before the Browns do something NUTS like overpaying for Cutler...just go all in and trade up to draft a QB.

Right now the Browns look like the biggest fools in the NFL for drafting Manziel in the first round...and you want top that by signing "Cutler".

Like I said, those who don't like Hoyer, don't have a better plan.

Unless Manziel shows ZERO improvement these next two games I can't see a scenario where we make a move for a big named QB, especially one who will cost as much as Jay Cutler.

In my opinion Jay Cutler is done as a starter, you talk about a waste of physical talent, this guy just doesn't have it mentally.

I wouldn't blame Hoyer for looking around to see if he can get a starters job and money. I don't know if he'll get that, but you can't fault the guy for looking.

I would hope they'd find a way to keep him here.

Hoyer could beat out Cutler

if it keeps up for another two weeks... this could be a very true statement and a great argument for his agent

Here's the List of NFL Free Agents QBs coming up for next year.. just so everyone can look at who is available...

2015 NFL Free Agents

Pos. Player Team Age Note

QB Ryan Lindley ARI 26 R
QB T.J. Yates ATL 28
QB Tyrod Taylor BAL 26
QB Joe Webb CAR 29
QB Jimmy Clausen CHI 28
QB Jason Campbell CIN 34
QB Brian Hoyer CLE 30
QB Kellen Moore DET 26 R
QB Dan Orlovsky DET 32
QB Matt Flynn GB 30
QB Scott Tolzien GB 28
QB Matt Moore MIA 31
QB Christian Ponder MIN 27
QB Ryan Mallett NE 27
QB Luke McCown NO 34
QB Michael Vick NYJ 35
QB Mark Sanchez PHI 29
QB Matt Hasselbeck SEA 40
QB Tarvaris Jackson SEA 32
QB Terrelle Pryor SEA 26
QB Blaine Gabbert SF 26
QB Josh Johnson SF 29
QB Austin Davis STL 26 R
QB Shaun Hill STL 35
QB Jake Locker TEN 27
QB Colt McCoy WAS 29


http://nfltraderumors.co/2015-nfl-free-agents-list/

Me too.

Simply keeping Hoyer because we "suck less" with him at QB isn't a "plan" either.

Veteran Qb's who might be available cheap or as free agents include:

Bradford
Locker
Mallet
Glennon

We will need a veteran qb at least as a backup qb, possibly to push Manziel. Any, role for one of these guys?

If JFF goes down, we need Hoyer. He is playing like a backup QB over the last month+.
Reasonable contract. But not starter's money.

there is rteally only one guy on that list that I'd want and that's hoyer.

mac,

Believe me, I know that I don't set the value of Hoyer's contract, and I know that no NFL GM is coming to me to ask how much to offer Hoyer. I asked YOU what YOU think.

Even though you never answered my one-line question in your post/essay, I'll assume that you think Hoyer is a worth a starter-caliber contract (or, put another way, you think Hoyer will be offered a starter-caliber contract from some other team).

Guessing what teams will and won't do in the offseason is tough, but I'm having a tough time coming up with teams that would seriously pursue Hoyer as a starter. Buffalo? They already have Orton, who is functioning just fine as their bridge QB/game manager. Houston? Same with Fitzpatrick. If you honestly think they're going to dump their game manager (a guy who tossed 6 touchdowns a couple weeks ago) for Hoyer, I'd say you're crazy. Cards? Yeah, maybe the Cards, but they already cut the guy. TB has McCown, who is playing ok in a bridge QB role for them.

Point is, I don't see any team, based on their roster, that would offer Hoyer a starter-level contract. Now, as a backup? That's a different story. Hoyer will get tons of interest to be a team's vet backup (and it's my opinion that the Browns should be in the front of this line).

The ride was great when Hoyer was performing well, but it seems like that ride is over. Teams have tape on him and this offense, and Hoyer's physical limitations have finally caught up with him.

Not talking about Hoyer here..........but, teams have tape of John as well. And Johns physical limitations will show up on tape even more than they did in live time.

Seriously - cincy watched 2 college games of John........expected one thing, but due to shanahan got a different thing, and they made him look like THAT?

The good news is, John has 2 games to show something. His speed is iffy, at best. His scrambling makes one think Kosar at least had a chance (k, maybe that's an exaggeration), his arm strength is questionable, his accuracy sucks, his mechanics suck worse than a mother puppy eating her litters poop, and SOMEONE didn't know the playbook well enough.

Now, with the playbook - I'll give you that much of it appeared to be new. But when the O line and the running back seemed to be doing one thing, and John was faking a hand off to a back that was going the opposite way, I guess I question John.

Also, Shanahan would be wise to drop the gimmick crap. Read option, spread read........what ever you want to call it, it's a gimmick. It's the nfl. Look at Peyton Manning, look at Aaron Rodgers, look at Tom Brady, look at Drew Brees...........do those guys rely on gimmicks? No. Play fakes and just plain old ability. A qb in the nfl HAS to be a passer first. Wilson from seattle would agree.

His speed isn't iffy. He's one of fastest, if not the fastest QB in the league.

The problem is that his speed is one of his biggest assets, which is great if you're playing on the outside, but not a top priority if you're a QB.

I'll never understand how people can look at these prospects coming out of a backyard offense and just think, 'ah, he'll get it, as if it isn't the hardest adjustment to make in sports.

That list is pretty horrid.

I think I would consider Mallet over anyone on that list though.

Hoyer isn't good, I was happy to not have to see him play this week.

With that being said, mac's comment about "back up plan", we're hosed. If Manziel can't pull it together, we're back to nothing.

Typical Browns though, IMO. I'm pretty disappointed with the past 6 weeks of football.

His speed actually sucks. I think he was timed at 4.68. It's his quickness and shiftiness that is actually what he has done well.

That's the odd thing about his arm. Against Buffalo he actually put forth pretty good arm strength. But then again it was what the O had been running and even his footwork looked better for the most part. Last week none of it looked good.

Nothing looked good last week. That entire football game from beginning to end was a total travesty.

Especially if you're willing to work at it.

The entire team looked uninspired. They laid a crapfest. But when the discussion topic is Manziel, I'm simply keeping my comments in this thread directed towards him.

Noted...when it come to Manziel, it was one game. I'm still hopeful. If not, back to my previous comment, we're kinda hosed!

Which is why all of his idiocy was and is a major concern.

So many people not only wrote it off, but were to a degree pumped up by it...'Johnny's just being Johnny'.

The learning curve of an NFL QB is more of a cliff. And this kid was getting caught rolling bills in Vegas bathrooms and hanging out with Floyd Mayweather and Justin Beiber.

His alarm just went off. Let's just hope he doesn't hit snooze.

I think there is way too much panic going on and way too much over reaction. Most of us knew it was going to be ugly starting off, it always is when you throw a rookie qb in. I expected better from Manziel than what we got, I expected better from the team overall. It is what it is, give it some time.

Which is where my confusion comes from. In the Buffalo game, Shanahan ran the O that all the players were familiar with. JFF looked more poised, more accurate and players responded.

This game, we saw plays that we haven't seen before, JFF looked shaken and the O looked generally confused. The passes looked weaker, the accuracy wasn't there and the footwork flat out sucked.

I'd like to see this coaching staff go back to what we were running the entire season to get a better grasp on exactly what happened.

I think these comments are spot on

Everything was bad, it was night and day from the Buffalo series. I can only guess that all the hype and the pressure to live up to it was too much. His body language on the field showed it too. He got embarrased, humiliated defense flashing money signs after sacks, it was coming sooner or later. Get it out of the way, pop the hype balloon and get back to reality so the kid can get his head right and hopefully start adjusting to the speed of the game. Because that was his biggest problem sunday, the game was just too fast and he looked lost. I hope it will start slowing down for him as he plays more and playing on the field is the only way he going to get it. You can only learn so much on the bench.

j/c:

Manziel's performance was one of the worst that I have ever, ever seen.

It wasn't his lack of arm strength. It was his footwork. He was taking around 7 choppy steps on what should have been a 3-step drop. What was supposed to be a 5-step drop...heck, I couldn't even count how many steps he took.

He didn't read the pocket. He moved the wrong way. He bailed instead of stepping up. He stepped up instead of holding his ground.

Awful footwork and pocket awareness.

He threw off balance, which negated his arm strength. His feet were out of whack. That doesn't work up here, as Hoyer has found out in recent weeks. You can't throw backing up unless you are an Aaron Rodgers.

He was so freaking late w/his throws. It reminded me of Timid and Weeden. Make the read, step-up, deliver the ball. He wasn't even close to succeeding in that part of the game.

He looked like a bust! I wanted Teddy in this draft. Manziel was my second choice. He looked as far from being a successful QB as one could imagine. I kept thinking, something has to give, something has to change, but man.............he kept on sucking the entire game. As of right now, I admit that I was wrong about him and many of you were right.

With all of that said, I want to add these points/opinions:

--His teammates offered him no help at all. The defense let the Bengals O control the game. They couldn't stop the freaking guy who bad-mouthed us. He punked us the entire game.

+The receivers ran poor routes and dropped numerous balls that could have easily been caught.

+We had numerous stupid penalties.

--Most of the nation is rejoicing in Manziel's failure. I am not. I hope he turns it around and puts it back in their faces.

--I think he handled the PC w/maturity and grace.

--Right now, JM is an underdog. He's a Brown. I'm rooting for him and hope it works out, but man, he has a long way to go in terms of his mechanics, reads, and decision making.