DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Josh Gordon is a Punk

You were evaluating talent?

I thought you just called him a punk.... big difference. Let me go back and check. . . . yep. Title of the thread. Nothing about evaluation - just name calling and stirring the pot to get a reaction.

I don't see anyone claiming Gordon has played well. I don't see anyone saying he's been a game changer. I do see people unreasonably suggesting that after all that time off - he should have stepped onto the field in game shape. . . and then I see others just hating because thats what they do best.

I like JG but you make valid points, as you normally do... he needs to get his head into it... he has more than enough time to learn his routes IMO

too bad you have to ridicule folks by beginning your posts calling every Einstein's though I don't get that but to each his own.

I guess my point is that it's true about Gordon running the wrong routes. He hasn't shown any maturity since his return. He was fairly productive in his first game back but pretty quiet since.

My point was that you can't blame JG for the lack of run D, poor ST's play, our lack of a running game and so on. Each player and unit is responsible for their part in the equation. So while I do agree that Gordon is responsible for his part, so are many others that gives us the product we're seeing on the field.

"When you lose a Pro Bowl player you don't replace him," Pettine said. "There are certain positions that are -- you hate to say are more important than others but have more significant impact. Center is a guy that puts his hand on the ball every single play, and a big part of the run game, big part of the protections, getting all the information correct and relayed to the other guys. You don't replace an Alex Mack."

In the five games he started the Browns averaged 26.8 points, 146.4 yards rushing and 22.5 first downs.

In the nine games without him the Browns have averaged 15.7 points, 89.2 yards rushing and 17.7 first downs.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/12/cleveland_browns_center_alex_m_11.html

I think it hurt more than people think. jmo.

Agree!

My brother and I discussed this at great lengths. He kept debating how FG will elevate the quality of receivers while elevating the team. I stated I wasn't sure. FG did well last year, because he was the center of attention. In Shanahan's scheme, he needs to sell it every play he is getting the ball. I think he takes plays off which causes problems. I also argued FG didn't look good during preseason in this offensive scheme.

First game back I thought fine I was wrong. After Shanahan stated we relied to much on Gordon and needed to balance it out more, Gordon wasn't the same.

I think FG is still young and missed valued playing time. It'll take time. I guess we can say the same for the entire franchise. Everyone is new and need to keep moving forward.

I think trading him is a bad idea, but in what world is Josh Gordon the NFL's best WR?

Thanks for posting the numbers..That's a big drop off in production... Didn't realize just how much.

I doubt it.

If we were talking about this time last year, sure. I could see a lot of organizations willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

But since then, he's gotten a DUI and was suspended again. That says something beyond the appeal of a more liberal CBA agreement. It screams 'you can't count on this guy to take it seriously'.

You're not going to find many to make a high investment on that, regardless of what his talent is. Those types almost always tend to be acquired with low stakes/investment as a reclamation project.

And yet, he will be out of the drug program completely if he stays clean for one year after his last failed test. The new drug policy changed the "3 strikes" policy, so that Gordon, and others, under certain conditions, will not have 3 strikes hanging over their heads forever, as used to be the case.

If he gets through a year and is completely removed from the drug program .... even out of stage 1 ...... then he will have a higher value to other teams. How much more is debatable, but remember that this is a guy who led the league in receiving last year, even after missing the 1st 2 games of the season. Despite having Brandon Weeden, Jason Campbell, and Brian Hoyer throwing him the ball, he had 1646 yards, 18.9 yards/catch, and 9 TD. That is just amazing, because we really didn't have any kind of quality at the QB spot.

The Falcons traded2 draft picks to move up to get an untested Julio Jones. The Bills traded 2 1st round picks, and a 4th, to get a smaller Watkins. He's a nice player, but he does not have the sheer talent and ability Josh Gordon does.

The biggest difference that holds a team back from trading big picks for a guy like Gordon, (or any other veteran player for that matter) is the fact that a team only has control of a guy like Gordon for one year after this year. He will then be in line for a huge raise. (again, assuming that he stays clean and puts up any kind of production) A draft pick will be under team control for 4 seasons. and will be a value commodity. Josh Gordon, if he stays clean and puts together a year even just 2/3 like he did last year, is a $40-$50 million/4 year player. A guy like Watkins costs probably 1/2 that. That is important to teams, because they need those rookie deals to balance out their salary caps.

That really is what keeps most veterans from being worth more in trades for draft picks. However, if Gordon stays clean, and puts up, say ... maybe a season with 1200-1300 yards, and 8-10 TD, and he'll get one of those huge free agent deals from someone.

He can be completely out of the drug program next year, if he stays clean till the start of next season. The testing limits are higher, so that seems more likely. The DUI means nothing at this point. It is the expensive contract that is right around the corner that limits his value more than anything else. He will not be a 1st round value, because he could be a one year rental, or a very expensive re-sign.

I still think that a team in dire need of a playmaking WR might make an offer beyond the 3rd-4th rounds, if Gordon stays clean. Whether or not the Browns want to dump him for that will then be the question.

What NFL GM is going to bet a second round pick that Josh Gordon stays clean for a year?

Would you?



Why, exactly, are you comparing the situations of Jones and Watkins with that of Gordon?

Have either of those two ever been arrested, failed drug tests and/or suspended repeatedly with every single organization they've ever been with?

After this season, most of that year will be over. It will be completely over, if I read the new rules right, before the start of training camp.

(c) Ten-Game Suspension for Marijuana
If a Player’s first Positive Test Result after being advanced to Stage Three is for marijuana, the Player shall be suspended without pay for ten (10) regular season and/or postseason games (including the Pro Bowl, if selected). For any subsequent violation (i.e., failure to comply with Treatment Plan; failure to cooperate with testing, treatment, evaluation or other requirements imposed by this Policy; or a Positive Test Result for any substance), the Player shall be banished as set forth in Paragraph (b) above.
(d) DurationA Player in Stage Three will remain in that stage for the remainder of his NFL career. However, after 24 months in Stage Three,if the Player has not had any additional positive tests, within a reasonable time period, the Medical Director and Medical Advisor will assess the Player and decide whether he will be discharged at that time. Such determination shall be based on the Player’s compliance with the Program, clinical progress and negative testing record. If the Player is not discharged, the Medical Director and Medical Advisor will, after twelve (12) months, assess whether the Player should be discharged at that time. After every such assessment, the Medical Director and Medical Advisor shall notify the Player in writing of their decision if they do not discharge the Player. Any decision to discharge a Player from the Program early as set forth in this Section shall be within the sole discretion of the Medical Director. Once a Player is discharged, he will be afforded the same status as a Player who had never by Behavior or a Positive Test been referred to the Intervention Program.

https://nflpa.com/news-events

sounds like at least 2 years to me.

And it's not even an automatic 24 month time limit. It's more like a parole board of sorts. And Josh doesn't exactly shine when it comes to the criteria.

Anyway, my point was, no team is going to offer a high pick for Josh. We have him on the cheap still, so there's no reason not to work with him and see what can be done in terms of getting him to realize the potential.

And, once again, this is on the organization as much as Josh. There was a reason we got him in the second of the supplemental, and we knew going in that this would be more of a rehab project.

To be fair, from what I've read, we've put people on Josh as much as we can, and had him working with a behavioral therapist.

If I were the organization, I would maximize those efforts and offer Josh an incentive-laden extension much like the rookie contract Ricky Williams got, which paid him six figures if he did nothing, and made him one of the league's highest paid if he performed.

I wouldn't expect Josh to sign it, but it might be the best path for all parties involved.

The only reason a team would consider trading for Josh is his current drug policy situation. This being said, he is one of the Top Receivers in the NFL! A conditional third round pick? What a Joke!!! There are many them, IMHO, that would give us a conditional 1st-round pick for without blinking an eye! JMHO Go Brownies!!!

No, that's the primary reason teams wouldn't pay big for him.

And if it weren't an issue, we wouldn't be talking about trading him, nor would we likely have him, as he would've gone higher in the regular draft.



...when he's on the field.

Which thus far in his career, he hasn't been able to be.



You're telling me that a team would give up the most valuable commodity in the NFL for a guy who has never - and let me stress the word NEVER - completed a full season with an organization without failing a drug test, getting suspended or getting arrested?

Let me repeat one more time for effect - never completed a full season with an organization without failing a drug test, getting suspended or getting arrested.

Think about that.

LOL wow. He wouldn't be the best WR in the CFL let alone the NFL. He's talented no doubt, but he isn't even top 10 in this league.

I have a feeling wav forgot to add a " 'nt" to his phrase "The only reason a team would consider trading for Josh is his current drug policy situation"

I would hope so, anyway.

Cut wav a break, at least until he clarifies.

Fair enough.

But this first or second round talk for Gordon is a pipe dream in our current reality.

Well, I was gonna vote for Johnny Manziel as our #1 punk. Haven't seen much maturity increase in the lad this year. Obviously too little done onfield to know whether he will work out football-wise, but nothing encouraging so far, either, in his 5+ quarters of live play.

The debate about Gordon being a punk (couple of pot busts is considerable proof, though) may now resume.

I don't know about the running game, but those other two, he definitely contributed to...

He doesn't owe us a year because he's been able to play enough games to make this count as a credited season which means we don't get an extra year on his rookie contract.

I agree.

Browns suspend Josh Gordon for violating team rules

Posted by Michael David Smith on December 27, 2014, 1:45 PM EST
Cleveland Browns v St. Louis Rams 8-8-2013
Getty Images
Josh Gordon is suspended again.

Gordon, the wide receiver who began this season on a suspension for violating the NFL’s substance-abuse policy, has now been suspended by the Browns for violating team rules.

The Browns have not revealed what Gordon did, but this suspension provides Gordon’s detractors with one more reason to think that he simply doesn’t get it. Gordon has phenomenal talent — as much talent as almost any wide receiver in football — but his history of off-field problems stretches back to college and may end up derailing his career.

If Gordon ever gets himself straightened out and dedicates himself to being a professional, he’ll be among the league’s elite players. If not, he’ll be remembered as a player who let his great talent go to waste.

link

Gordon suspended for last game of season. I have a feeling his days with the Browns are over.

I think that settles it; he's a punk.

so tired of Gordon

Man, that stinks.

I keep dogging the guy, but I also keep hoping he proves me wrong and gets his act together.

I wonder what he did this time?

He missed the walk through today. LET'S DRAFT OFFENSIVE LINEMEN OVER WRS.

Don't forget ... with him suspended for his 11th game, we save a year on his contract

Oh boy....

Did they do this on purpose....?

He missed the walk through.

strange coincidence

I am tired of his act. I think that he has as much talent as any WR in the NFL today ..... but he cannot seem to get, or keep his head in the game. It does seem like the game is not important to him. That is a real shame.

Yeah, it can't be Josh's fault.

But what if, as another poster had speculated, they suspended him on purpose to stretch his contract into another year?

If so, does that mean he actually did something wrong, something they would normally overlook?

does that still make him a bad guy?


Anyway, I'm kinda like you, sick of his act. It might be time to see if he has trade value.

He got stoned and he missed it lol

They were just looking for an excuse and Josh was dumb enough to give them a reason. I would trade him to Oakland to move up in the draft. Perfect fit for the raiders and will get us in a position to take Cooper. Makes to much sense for both teams for it to ever happen.

After taking any kind of look at his track record, I believe anyone who would question our FO and coaching staff over JG's actions are reaching to monumental proportions when suggesting this as a possibility.

Trade him!