DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Would this team be better with or without Gordon/Manziel/Gilbert?

Is this triumvirate of idiocy and entitlement worth keeping around for potential contributions? I for one am sick of waiting and hoping for a player to get his head on straight. I'd have more respect for the coaches and FO if they sh!tcan these bums. Not one of these clowns has contributed anything positive to this team this entire season, and all we have is their word that they have learned a lesson and will work harder. Then, after giving us their word, they pull this crap. IMO, the negative effect on the rest of the team outweighs any benefits these clowns MIGHT bring to the table IF they somehow completely change their mindset and work ethic.

If "I" were the coach, they'd all be gone yesterday. Granted, I'm old school and would much rather lose with guys who are smart, disciplined and do the right things than win with guys who are arrogant, undisciplined idiots. But that's just me.

Hard for a pro organisation where literally hundreds of coaches and scouts and jobs are on the line based on wins/losses to make that same call.

We shall see.

Without.

Get rid of all of them.

Can't have these type of cancers in the locker room.

It might be one thing if they were competitors in addition to being knuckleheads, but I don't think Manziel or Gilbert really want to play.

And their actions show that. And they are competely disrespecting the authority on this team with their antics.

It's sad in so many levels. So tired of this crap.

What about the guys who brought these players into town ?

I don't think taxi drivers should lose their jobs.

Gordon will be gone. Manziel should be gone. Gilbert may be salvageable without the influence of the other two.

More concerning is that Farmer's 1st round draft is looking worse than the Weeden and Richardson draft. It was hard to imagine that was possible. I have zero confidence at this moment there is hope for for success with next years two 1st round picks.

I'm not sure what I would do, but this is an atrocious end to the season.

I guess I'd dump Manziel ASAP ... he'll never be an NFL QB

I'd trade Gordon ... he's either a lost cause OR trying to get out of CLE

I'd give Gilbert an offseason to prove something

I think he meant the homeless guy that told Haslam to take Manziel.

Yeah doesn't speak too well to the homework we did (or didn't do) regarding the mental toughness, intelligence and intestinal fortitude of the guys we scouted does it?

It takes more than looking at the college stat sheet and the combine #s to make a good NFL player.

Pettine is in a horrible situation but Haslam should go ahead and fire Farmer and Pettine is in risk of being canned as well by not having his team under control. I like Pettine and hope he stays but Haslam may look to can him, team collapsed down the stretch and he has no control over this team.

Getting rid of 2 first rounders and your only real offensive weapon, just isnt gonna happen although it probably should. I would not be shocked to see Harbaugh in here sadly.

Well this should be fun......

mike freemanVerified account
‏@mikefreemanNFL
Browns veteran player texted to me he'd give me his thoughts on Manziel later this week. Wanted to "calm down first."
Oh boy.

Link

I think Haslam is more of a problem than Farmer and Pettine. There were reports earlier today that the Browns tried to trade Gordon last year and Haslam vetoed each offer. All indications point that he forced Farmer's hand into drafting Manziel.

The team problems start at the top and roll down hill. Firing Pettine and Farmer would create even more instability and do nothing to resolve the problems a meddling owner creates. Petting and Farmer need to be given time. This year's train wreck should be a lesson learned for all, most of all Haslam.

We don't know if we are better without them yet.

We don't know anything right now. Does it look good so far? Absolutely not.

However, Gilbert hasn't had enough PT to say he's the reason we lost games.
Manziel isn't the reason Hoyer started slumping.
Gordon can't be blamed for HOYER acting like a teenager with a new car when he came back from suspension.

However, they are a bunch of knuckleheads. But they are young as hell.

As much as I want them to act responsibly, like other young players have shown, I have to remind myself that if I was 20-22 and got millions in the back, no wife no kids, there's no telling WHAT my mentality would be.

And none of us on this board knows either. That's the biggest problem as well, some of us have this high horse on this situation like we know what they are going through. We don't.

Manziel, seems like he's been a snotty rich kid his entire life. Hard to change.
Gilbert snd Gordon, don't know their background but if it's the typical story, they went from growing up broke to millions in the bank.

I'm not defending their actions, as Gordon specifically has had more than enough chances. But to me next season will not only tell what these three guys mentality is, but how good our coaches actually are.

Good coaches know how to reel in troubled players. They do it all the time, every year.

But these guys have serious talent. Our team can't afford to just give up on talent. We aren't good enough to. We aren't the patriots, we aren't the steelers. We need everything we can get right now.

So if I was the coach, or GM, I wouldn't cut them, and with the right angle the coaches can reel these guys in.

I rather have divas that can help us win, then care bears on the squad, and we win the "moral code" award and continue going 5-11, 4-12 every year.

I don't know the answer to that one, but it's a good question.

All I do know is that the ending of this season is very depressing. I was so jacked for awhile. After the Atlanta game, I was sending out group text messages to people about the Browns being back..........and now I am saying they are back to their usual ways.

Man, it's like this season couldn't have ended any worse. Meanwhile, the Steelers and Bengals are in the playoffs and the Rats might make it, too.

Sadly this season ending FUBAR has brought a sense of relief to me.I had envisioned this organization finally turning a corner and being,you know professional.
That doesn't appear to be the case.I'm back in that oh so familiar territory of "Good God what will the Browns screw up next".And that's good,I don't know if I have the desire or energy to actually give a crap and view this bunch of dysfunctional losers as serious individuals deserving of respect.
I'd dump all 3 of these knuckleheads,and Farmer with them.
I will ask all of you that if you see me again being positive about this cast of thieves.dopers and slackers,that you reach thru the internet and smack with a sledgehammer.

I hear you, but these particular divas have not helped us win.

I'll tell you whose opinion I want of Johnny Finger. One Joe Thomas. I bet behind closed doors THAT post-season discussion would be priceless

You know, as bad as Hoyer was playing (and it was bad) there was one guy who said not to make the switch to Mr. Jamboogie because it would signal to the whole team that the coaches had given up on the team and the season. The players all knew the kind of guy, ego, lack of knowledge of playbook, not putting in extra time, lack of preparation that Manziel was...thus why they felt that way.

And sadly, just as one well respected vet on this team warned, as soon as the switch was made, the team has packed it in. Their play on the field shows it and so does all this mess of garbage off the field being late for meetings, out partying etc. It reeks of a group of individuals who decided it was time for Christmas and the off-season and football was pretty much an afterthought.

Hate to say it but we were warned.

Gordon helped the Atlanta game.

Gilbert had a pick six on that monumental defensive effort against the colts.

The only one who hasn't is Manziel. But even you said we can't know what we have wih him with only a game and some change played.

Right now it's all speculation, for the fans and the coaches.

...and people said Mangini was crazy for wanting high character guys.

I have to agree with that and apologize to one Mr. Joe Thomas, who I chastised for the statement.

Simply put he he has his pulse of the team and the comment was very damning toward Manziel. It was just hard to see how much was beneath the surface.

Shame on Pettine for playing Manziel. He had to know.

The ending was depressing for sure, but the light at the end of the tunnel looks brighter (and not a train ). We'll be 7/9 or 8/8 - we showed vast improvement, come from behind wins, on the road division wins. Just like other team, we fought bad calls, injuries, bad games and the like - but dang - week 15 we were still talking playoff and legitimately!

We ask our players to commit to the team and now the team has a chance to commit to the players. Keep all 3 - IMHO - work on development and the character side. Build clubhouse leadership that holds these guys together and focused and disciplined.

Getting rid of 'problems' and starting over has killed us in the short term. It's like we couldn't handle the success - so maybe we just need to learn how to live in our new raised expectations - and that is a sign of the new Browns! IMO.

J/C....

Browns' frustrations over Josh Gordon, Johnny Manziel growing
December 28, 2014 9:30 am ET

Josh Gordon's days with the Browns appear to be numbered. (USATSI)
Josh Gordon's days with the Browns appear to be numbered. (USATSI)
The Browns suspended former star receiver Josh Gordon for today's season finale after he missed a walk-through Saturday, while first-round quarterback Johnny Manziel was fined for being late for treatment after throwing a big party Friday night attended by many members of the club. It's just the latest puzzling decision by both players who suffered, in essence, lost seasons after the Browns entered the season with hopes they might be able to lead the offense.

Gordon will file a grievance with the team, sources said, on the suspension, which, as it takes away what would have been his sixth game on the roster, precludes him from obtaining an accrued season toward free agency.

Gordon was viewed as a perpetual problem by the Browns former regime, who tried repeatedly to trade him last season only to be vetoed by ownership, sources said. He struggled to integrate to the team despite the Browns spending considerable resources to try to guide him, he was habitually late to meetings and practices, and that behavior has continued in head coach Mike Pettine's rookie season at the helm, sources said.

Gordon “has to go,” according to several members of the organization, with his drug suspensions and lax behavior a growing problem and something they are concerned could rub off on young players on the roster. Of course, it remains to be seen if Browns owner Jimmy Haslam will be willing to take reduced compensation for the diminishing asset, after being enthralled by Gordon's breakthrough 2012 campaign.

Gordon has superior athletic talent but is a failed drug test away from having his career back in jeopardy and with another long offseason looming, expect the Browns to try to reap whatever little compensation they can get for him and move on.

The pairing of him and Manziel -- whose nighttime activities and work habits and practice performances continue to worry the organization -- is particularly troublesome, and the timing of Manziel's party, and subsequent tardiness of certain players Saturday has not gone unnoticed in Cleveland. Gordon's poor practice habits have been bad for the team, the Browns have actually decreased offensively since he returned from suspension and his performance in games has been suspect as well.

Manziel was also not present for Saturday's walk-through. The Browns had to send security personnel to Manziel's house on Saturday to try to locate him when he was absent from the building, according to a source with knowledge of the situation. While it's not unusual to be absent given that he was placed on IR this week with a hamstring injury, considering Manziel's missteps in college and since entering the league, his own vow to take his job more seriously and his stated desire to be the starting quarterback next season, some on the team thought he might be around for the walk-through session.

There is also mounting frustration with the steep learning curve and maturity level from Justin Gilbert, the team's top first-round pick, who has failed to develop as expected and whose reputation has sunk within the organization.

Article


It appears Bernie and Joe Thomas knew what they were talking about. Back to the drawing board.

If such a thing as purgatory existed, being a Browns fan is it.

Their actions certainly suck, but they are still under contract. Barring huge problems behind the scenes, I would think they will be told they need to grow up and get their heads in the game.

Come next year during ota's and training camp, that would be when you either trade them or cut bait in lieu of a better harder working player.

I thought Gilbert was showing improvement on Sunday's, Gordon was worth the shot in the supplemental draft but is a liability now, and Manziel could develop just not as a QB.

How Gilbert turns out and how Buffalo's pick is used will pretty much determine IF Farmer's draft is salvageable. SMH

I guess I am just another reactionary fan who would run the team like George Steinbrenner. I wasted Manziel to start; now I want him gone. I was so excited to get Gordon back, and I made excuses for him. Now I want him out, too. They ought to send Joe Thomas, Whitner and Dansby to interview prospects at the combine. Those guys would see right through the idiots and we would never have to worry about some moron throwing a party on Friday night before we try to go 8-8.
I don't think Gordon or Manziel are ever going to get it. Gilbert might, but it would help him if we showed way happens to idiots that hurt the team. Trade them, cut them, I don't care. Get them out of here.

This is the 2nd time I've seen this . The guy can't even out-run DE or MLB, let alone a DB and you expect him to put in the work to learn a new position?

I've got some land for ya....

The idea of Manziel playing a noter position is just silly. He doesn't have the work ethic to play the position he's been playing. How can here-invent himself. I say either cut him, or make plans for next season with him here as the second or third string guy.

J/C...

On a side note, resigning Buster Skrine just became a huge priority.

skrine was always a priority signing.

That's why I put in the "huge" for emphasis!

I want to know who these sources are. Gordon failed the test last year and the team supposedly knew about it for months before it was leaked shortly before the draft so what team was gonna trade for a player looking at a long suspension? And is it even allowable?

+ 1

P.S. Excellent word, jfanent!

Triumvirate:

(in ancient Rome) a group of three men holding power, in particular ( the First Triumvirate ) the unofficial coalition of Julius Caesar, Pompey, and Crassus in 60 BC and ( the Second Triumvirate ) a coalition formed by Antony, Lepidus, and Octavian in 43 BC.

a group of three powerful or notable people or things existing in relation to each other.
"a triumvirate of three former executive vice presidents"

2. the office of triumvir in ancient Rome.

Here are my thoughts .... now that I have had a couple of seconds to think about things.

I get rid of Gordon. There is no way he is on this team next year.

I sit down with both Manziel and Gilbert after this game today. I let them both know, in no uncertain teams, that any more of the BS and they are out the door. Period. They each have no strikes left. This is a team, not a babysitting service. If they want to continue to screw around, then they will be unemployed really quickly.

I then shop all 3 around this off-season and see what I can get for them.

As I see it, Pettine is a horrible personnel manager. These are kids, if a coach can't manage them, then he isn't doing his job. It's like it never occurred to him that Manzel came in with national hype and Gordon was the darling of the organization and that he was a no name coach with no experience. They may be kids but they need someone to look up to. It seems he never made any attempt to reach out to them. It doesn't seem to be in his personality. Didn't Hoyer say something about feeling like he wasn't a part of the team when he passed Pettine in the halls during rehab? Haslam needs to bring in another FO guy to manage football operations and work with Farmer to make most/all personnel decisions. Limit Pettine to coaching. Pettine also needs to work on his personality, he doesn't come across as a warm and friendly guy. You have to get the respect of the players and if you are a head coach with little experience then that means the kids need to like you and want to play for you.

This isn't little Jimmy's weekend soccer league where everybody gets a ribbon for participation. For the love of God. Nobody in this league is a "kid". If they are, they don't belong here.

Hell of a job by Pettine to get these kids to come out and play this hard when they had nothing to play for and all the Manziel, Gilbert and and Gordon stuff.

Listen to his pressers before the Cincy game.

He knew.

I read / heard the pressers.

But its hard to tell how deep below the surface it goes though before the fact.

Yeah in hindsight it's easy to see how bad it is now.