DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Would this team be better with or without Gordon/Manziel/Gilbert?

Jc

Man, the news is all over front page on yahoo and other sites.

Our two rookies and Gordon just made us a complete joke.... Again.

We got all the negative speculation with drafting Manziel, and none of the good.

I was telling everyone way before hindsight that Manziel would bomb like the Hindenburg.

No translatable NFL skills + moron = disaster

I know. You keep reminding us. In every post. In every thread. Would you like a statue? Or maybe we can dedicate a thread to you? Or maybe I can change my sig to honor you?

Pick your award. You've earned it.

How long did you spend telling me that I 'just didn't like' Manziel (with arrogance, I might add)?

How about just that long?

How many times has crap like this happened in the past decade and we never heard a word about it? I bet this isn't the 1st year that Gordon acted like a moron. We have heard rumblings of stuff in the past, and the coaches said stuff like "We just handle all of that stuff in house". Well, maybe some of these guys need a little public exposure.

I go back to a guy like Bill Parcells. He would never put up with crap like this. He would have veterans call out players, or he would call them out himself. (Remember him calling Terry Glenn "She"?)

I think that veterans are fine with this stuff. In fact, a lot of the veterans have been around a while, and they want to win. If there is a guy who is keeping them from winning, especially because he just doesn't seem to give a damn, then they want his butt benched. (or gone)

Pettine was not perfect this year, but this team never gave up. I think that players know that they have to be accountable, or they will have their butts sat down. They also know that draft status means nothing for playing time. I think that a solid foundation has been set, and they will build on it from here.

Read the original question and skippid every post to reply because I have no need for input from others on this - yes, they'd be better off.

Trade them, cut them - don't care. Don't care what is invested in them or the level of egg on the faces of those who selected them.

GET ALL THREE OUT OF CLEVELAND.

If they ACTUALLY had any added value they'd make us a joke. Being two totally and one nearly irrelevant players make this laughable.

If it weren't this the media would find something.

We have to think about this from an economic standpoint.

Gordon has made it easy for us to delay the decision. But he's also a disgusting example of entitlement and stupidity. I say you bury him on the roster. Bring in receivers who can play and build the group as though Gordon doesn't exist. He'll more than likely blow himself up anyway. Don't waste any more resources on him and see what happens. But I'm done with him.

Same with Manziel. He's been full of crap and totally defiant. He's now your 3rd string QB. BURY him on the roster and see what he does. This kid has "suspension" written all over him with the way he conducts himself. And his BS sincerity is ALWAYS contradicted by what he does. He's a salesman, pure and simple.

Gilbert is just stupid. We have him for 4 years and he'll live as a 4th or 5th corner until he changes. I don't believe that he will. He's a punk, same as the other 2.

Reality is, we blew it with all three and not a single one of them isn't worth what we spent for them. Not that getting value for them would change anything. These guys can't manage high picks anyway.

I'm furious at the 3 stooges. It's not enough this franchise is the butt end of every league joke, year in and year out,but now they've made me want to hide in a closet for a few weeks. I wouldn't care at all if they were cut tomorrow.

I'd say we'd be better off without them. I was not a fan of the Johnny pick to begin with. He's TINY and a run first QB. BAD combination. And trading down to get Gilbert when we desperately needed a WR really stumped me too. But as long as Gilbert turned out to be a stud corner I could live with it. Now it turns out he is perhaps a bigger head case than Johnny? NOT good. Missing on two first round picks in the same draft is death to a franchise. Are we supposed to hope Farmer gets it right this year with two more firsts? Then we have West and his off field crap. Costing him games where they had to sit him.... Two firsts and a third, all head cases. This isn't good.

Not sure what we can do about it either.

I'd trade them all for a third.

One cancer in the locker room is bad enough, but three means you bring out the knife and cut.

I think you're right. That none of them are worth what we gave for them. But this bodes the question? If Farmer blew BOTH of his first round pick last year. And West has shown he's got an attitude problem as well... do we keep Farmer as GM? If he blew two firsts last year, why would we believe he won't blow both first round picks this season?

Then don't you cut out the guy that drafted them too?

Gilbert isn't a cancer. He's just an idiot.

Gordon and manziel are cancers and contribute to the most ridiculous locker-room culture I can remember here.

I think that Whitner, Dansby and Haden can control the idiot and without the influence of the other two jerks, may have a chance.

It's a roll of the dice. There weren't a lot of people out there that didn't believe the line of B.S. Manziel spewed out when he said he was going to out-work his Johnny Football persona. I know I bought it.

I think that Farmer blew the picks but I can see what he was thinking. High reward, high risk. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. And you look especially stupid when it doesn't.

Personally, I don't think it makes sense to trade Gordon and even less sense to flat out release him...and I don't think we will.

1. At this point in time, we won't get a high pick. He clearly has issues and other teams will leverage that in trade talks and his current drug status with the NFL.

2. His on the field talent outweighs mid-to-low draft picks in return. You can be pissed at him all you want and pray he is gone but the talent outweighs current market value.

3. The FO just possibly added another year of "ownership" of Gordon by suspending him.

4. His contract is so minimal at this point, it does you no wrong holding onto him. Not sure about his 2015 contract, but spottrac lists 2014 at 950,000 and 2015 at $1.7M. Not sure what contract Gordon will be held to in 2015 if the year gets bumped back, but either way it is chump change.

5. You've seen his talent in 2013. It's there and not like the "what if" of Manziel and Gilbert to compare the other two in the title of this thread.

In the end, I just think the minimal risk to hold onto Gordon is worth it. He's not worth much on the open market due to issues and he's not worth much on the balance sheet in Berea either.

There were reports that Farmer wanted to trade Gordon at the draft last year, and had a decent trade in place for him, but Haslam did not want to let Gordon go for less than he thought he was worth. Well, I don't think there will be that debate this time around.

I have had the feeling all along the JM is gonna do the opposite of anything he is asked to do. He is like one of those kids in school who played pranks on folks just to see if he could piss them off. He gets off on it.
The other uncool kids around him thinks it is funny too the "followers". I say dump JM. Send Gordon to the practice squad until he learns to show up and practice better than the guys who do not see the field and show up every day. And those practice players need to come at him with bad intentions. Gilbert needs to beat someone out. If he does not this off season. Cut him. Next man up. Tired of these prima-donna players who have not shown anything when it matters. OH and Farmer?....IT IS THE O-LINE STUPID!

I see no way we don't hang on to Manziel, and Gilbert hasn't been disruptive to the team environment like the other two have. Gordon is gone and we will get a mid to low pick for him......really wish we would have dumped him last year for a 2nd.

The rookies have a chance to mature....Gordon isn't a rookie anymore and is still the biggest cancer. You can cut Gordon and send a message to the rookids (as well as the vets these 3 have pissed off). I'll be shocked if he's here past the draft.

Not sure Gordon is eligible for the practice squad.

Bottom line for me though, is that Gordon will be looking at the business end of a lifetime ban in a few months regardless. He hasn't had a year of football that he didn't screw up somehow.

That guy is finished and there isn't a GM in the league that doesn't know it. The offers would be somewhere in the 6th or 7th round for that guy. And that's about fair.

I honestly can't remember a bigger jerk. Maybe Andre Rison?

Gordon is not eligible for the practice squad, and he wouldn't go there anyway. He would become a free agent, and someone else would sign him up on a flyer.

So you cannot bust players down to the practice squad? No wonder these guys think they are untouchable.

You can still sit a guy, and make him inactive for games.

Gordon will not be a player in the NFL.

He will not make it through another year clean and that will spark a mandatory lifetime ban. And none of this will matter.

I am nearly 100% certain of this.

I take a 6th for Gordon and turn it into a top kicker.
A gain in my book.

I am willing to shop them, trade them, or cut them. A llittle poison in the waterhole goes a long way. How often do you let the same people cut your throat? Too often.

I haven't read this thread but I'm going to go No, No, No.

Gordon is a talent - I'd prefer we trade him for value, but he is a legit top 15 guy.

Manziel seems to be unawares that this is not college. His un-preparedness (is that a word?) this year is alarming and disrespectful to the franchise and his team mates.

Gilbert has got better. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I'd prefer Manziel and the circus gone. If he played like the hype, I'd be swooning. Shaw looked like Manziel today, albeit more prepared.

Cut Manziel - he has no trade value, get what you can for Gordon in a trade - or cut him if you get no takers, and put Gilbert on strict notice that he's out of mulligans.

Dallas owner Jerry Jones makes no bones about how much he covets JM he would anti up a good trade if offered

Better without Gordon, to early to tell about Manziel/Gilbert. They still may grow up. If JM doesn't grow up soon, not only will he be off the Browns, he will be out of the NFL. So will Gilbert.

The best chance for getting anything for this kid, in my opinion as well.

I'd take a 3rd in a heartbeat.

With all due respect Rev, that was before anyone saw him play.

I think those of us who want to cut Manziel need to remember his age and the fact that he did some amazing things in college.

If he was declarin eligible he'd be in the conversation with Winston, Mariota, etc coming out now.

I think he needs to decide that he wants to be great. If he doesn't, that's cool, just go do something else.

It also proves that for the most mature, savvy, important decision making position, you draft rookies to fill that hole. Doesn't happen in any other sport or industry lol

Get rid of Manziel and Gordon. Once those two are gone I think Haden and Skrine can possibly help turn Gilbert around.

Gilbert is stupid but JFF and Gordon are just bad influences and clearly do not care about anybody except themselves.

With Gilbert remember he had a superb combine...yet he absolutely ZERO buzz after the combine to the draft...I'm thinking scouts found something...and obviously we overlooked it...I never thought wed take a corner #8 overall...then again with this team nothing surprises me..

Manziel was the wildcard QB in the draft...I told people that Manziel gives up on plays far top often and free lanced...and he would get killed with the faster, smarter, stronger, disciplined NFL defenses...noted he isn't fast nor big enough...

That being said..Manziel played what 7 quarters of football...far too early to calling him off...he still has a pretty high trade value...if the team decides to go that route..

Gordon I'd trade him away..been wanting it for years...not sure of his value...maybe like Tampa with Mike Williams so like a 5th...maybe a 3rd...

Gordon will not be back, will be traded or let go.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/12/28/7...n-irresponsible

Quarterback Johnny Manziel's future with the Cleveland Browns was reportedly in doubt on Sunday after he hosted a Friday night house party that may have led to the rookie and wide receiver Josh Gordon being late to team events on Saturday. After Cleveland's 20-10 loss to Baltimore on Sunday, Browns owner Jimmy Haslam had harsh words for Manziel, even without mentioning the quarterback directly:



Follow

#Browns owner Jimmy Haslam said team will work w/young guys who messed up, but if they can't grow up & be responsible, they won't be w/team.

#browns owner Haslam said "clearly qB is important and we've got to figure it out"

#Browns LT Joe Thomas on Josh Gordon, Johnny Manziel, Justin Gilbert being punished: "It's part of the #NFL. Everyone has bad apples."


Haslam: This is ultimate team game & players who can't show up 4 meetings, can't make practice & weight lifting "disrespect" team, coaches


#Browns owner Jimmy Haslam said if those guys can't grow up & be responsible to team & fans, "then they won't be with the Cleveland Browns."

#Browns owner Jimmy Haslam: "We're not going to tolerate people who are irresponsible no matter what round they're drafted in. ...

Yes we would. He is what I feel this Organization needs to do in order to gain the respect of its fan base and the NFL:

1. Cut Manziel and Gordon or try and trade them. They should not be on this team next year
2. Hire Bernie Kosar in some capacity and let him help you find a Quarterback
3. Haslem needs to make a statement saying I forced the Coach and GM into drafting/keeping certain players. I was wrong, I learned my lesson, and it won't happen again, period
4. Sit Gilbert down and lay it all on the line, be a pro or you are gone

AMEN ... Why beat around the Bush