DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Re-sign Hoyer

I didn't reply to your thread on QBs for two reasons:

--Your analysis was ludicrous w/many of the QBs. One could say "laughable."

--I didn't want to criticize you because you put work into your evaluation. But now, w/your stupid comment of my take on TB being "laughable," the gloves are off. Your analysis of the QBs was downright ignorant.

The sugar thing makes sense.

I always supported Cutler because I believed he possessed rare talent, but man, one would think that he would have figured it out by now.

I don't see anyone saying its NOT wrong.

While Gilbert and Manziel seem to be having similar issues with immaturity, the difference is that Gilbert's issues aren't having nearly as much of a negative impact on the team as a whole like Manziel's has.

NOw when it comes to the amount of criticism he receives, I think Gilbert actually benefits in a way from guys like K'waun and Desir beating him out and playing well because the team doesn't suffer by him not being on the field. Its not like there an expectation for him to become a "franchise cornerback". On top of tat, CB is not a position where being a leader is built in to the job description as opposed to QB.

So when you compare that to the kid hailed as the next best thing in football, who's SUPPOSED to be our best hope to be the covetous franchise QB we've sought for so long say he "didn't take things as seriously as he should have"... it's going to be considered much more egregious.

I'm not so sure Hoyer and Manziel end up on the same roster next season. Unless Manziel is unequivocally relegated to a back up from the get go.

I would think that if it was something like his sugar getting low, a few sips of gatorade, or about anything with sugar would spike it right back up. We would give people on the squad oral glucose, and their sugar would spike almost immediately.

Don't really want it to go thru the roof because its bad for vision, but i've watched people eat a few chips, and get their sugar back to normal levels.

I would agree with you about the line though. I don't watch much football besides the browns, but seems like every time i saw him, he was under pressure.

That's a fair point DD.

Although I would point out that I'm not the biggest fan of Skrine as an outside CB. The grand master plan was for Gilbert to be good enough to take the job from Skrine, moving him to slot CB, where he would be a beast.

And to your point, I think certain posters are taking the wrong approach in regards to K'Waun. Him playing well shouldn't be twisted around to be a negative against someone else.

Don't see why Manziel being a fool (agree) means we have to re-sign Hoyer. He showed mid-season why he's not a franchise QB when given the chance. I like the guy, but he seems to have proven he's just a decent back up who can maybe win a few games for you.

Things aren't looking good for Manziel, either, which shows that we're still looking for a play-off caliber QB to take us to the next level.

Can Farmer ID one in the draft?? He sure seems to have whiffed with Manziel.

Sad.

Happy New Year anyway. :-)

Prove that comment by showing us quotes from players and coaches.

I got news for you and others fighting this hateful fight. You can't do it.

On the other hand, I can show you more direct quotes from PLAYERS AND COACHES that put way more blame on Gilbert than Manziel.

Wanna put money on this one?

Gloves are off...ohhhhh my...such an internet tough guy. A typical shallow post from you. Take the gloves off tough guy and actually debate my QB evaluations that you proclaim 'ignorant'. As I said before, you don't have the stones to do it...because you've thrown them around on this board to the point where they are now pebbles.

We could have Christ himself at QB and the debate wouldn't stop on this board...let alone your draft-choice-hero after a half dozen or so mediocre starts.

Happy New Year to you, too.

Thank you...same to you.

Re-sign Hoyer. The 2015 draft is thin at QB. Mariotta and Winston will be gone in the first few picks and I wouldn't pick either anyway. Mariotta is another version of Manziel who won't throw the ball unless there are wide open receivers. Winston has too many issues and I question his intellect, on and off the field. Currently there is no one in FA I would want. Let Manziel go, and pick up a smart, 6'4" QB in a later round that fits the prototype profile.

Hoyer struggled when our OLine started to fall apart and when our receiver corp became a patchwork of smurfs. Give me the Hoyer we saw in the beginning who read offenses and got the ball out quickly with confidence...not force to rush throws off his front foot.

It may be a good idea to re-sign BH as long as the price is right and we can improve the talent around him. We may be set at RB but we need to improve OL, WR and possibly TE. You still have JM to develop and you can bring in a Mallet or draft someone in a later round.

i'm not saying we have to, i'm just saying that I feel he is one of our best options at this point.

Manziel obviously wasn't doing something. He admitted as much. No way this organization rewards that with a starting job.

So we are basically stuck signing a vet qb somehow. Probably draft someone to develop as well.

Unless there is much more that we don't know, I don't see them cutting Manziel.
I can see him listed as the 3rd string qb until he proves he deserves better.

If this crap was continuing next year into training camp, then i could see him traded, or not making final cuts. They will never say a thing to hint that though, or we have no chance of any pick.

Aren't smart 6' 4" prototypical qb's drafted in the first?

Like Tom Brady was.

What would you give up to get a QB like Mike Glennon? Would you send Johnny Manziel to Tampa? Would you send a mid (4th) to late (6th) round pick for him?

Especially if part of the price is to name BH the starter. That is where we are at. Have it understood that if he tanks badly, things may change. But the draft is easier and better for us if we lock him up, get some FA help (proven), draft skill positions high, and coach up.

I see a much less rosy scenario if BH goes, Jm is not viable, and we are looking to the draft for immediate salvation while facing what I consider to be a much tougher schedule. Maybe a veteran. But pickins are slim.

I'll add that I think in the short term (1-2 years) he's a better option than any QB in this draft that we might have a chance to snag. I'm not crazy about repeating a year like this year, but honestly if we stay healthy and pick up some more impact players/O-line depth we could be looking at a completely different ending. I think trying to resign him without breaking the bank is a no brainer.

That's how I see it also. Therefore, how do we justify signing him to a starter's salary? As a sidenote: There is no way I see Hoyer and Manziel co-existing next season. One has to go...

I agree w/what you are saying and I would like to see Hoyer stick around, but for some reason, I get the impression that Hoyer and Manziel cannot coexist. I don't think that Farmer and Pettine want Hoyer back.

I agree w/you on some of your team evaluations, but think you might have went a bit overboard.

OL: We need depth. The starters are good enough.

Special teams improved in regards to coverage. We desperately need a punt returner.

Defense: I like Skrine and thought he played well. I think Gilbet stinks He has shown me NOTHING positive. I have no idea why so many people are saying he improved as the year went along. He sucked all year. He had one great return on a pass that was dramatically overthrown. It's not like he undercut a guy for a pick.

I think our lack of a pass rush was huge. QBs got too much time to sit in the pocket and wait for receivers to come open.

I hated the pick at the time, but Hughes is looking pretty good. I hope we trade Taylor, for something...anything.

We need a WR or two, but they aren't that hard to find.

I think that Pettine respects Hoyer, but he is not the guy he wants at QB.

It is my belief that we will go after a guy he does like, as our bridge QB, and that guy will be Mark Sanchez. I cannot believe I am going to say this, because I wanted no part of him in the 2009 draft, but I think that Sanchez could be a solid guy to run the "QB limited" style of offense we are running. He's not a great QB by any measure, but he can be effective if he does not have to do everything himself.

If I had to bet money on a QB coming in here, it would be Sanchez.

I think that we could also look at a guy like Glennon, who is a young veteran who has played well when he has had opportunities. He has been buried in Tampa Bay for some reason, and that needs to be investigated, but he has the size and ability to be a solid starter.

We probably aren't going to find a great QB next year. (unless Manziel makes a 100% turnaround .... which with his ego, I would not count completely out)

Going after Sanchez actually makes sense. I can't believe I am saying that, but I am.......

Yeah, I never thought I would say it either .....

I'm kinda wondering if Pettin wants Manziel at QB these days. JM is a headache. A real PITA. Problem child or so it seems up to now. Talks a good game, doesn't come through when it counts.

Honestly, I don't know if Pettine wants him either.

As for Sanchez, You and me are together on not wanting him back then. but damn, he might be the best interim guy until we find THE guy. Whoever we bring in has to be someone we can live with for a few years until the right/long term answer is found.

I wanted Bridgewater last year.. He was ok with the Vikings. He may have actually been better here.

Anyway, that's just speculation., Who knows.

Glennon only works out if Shanahan can make something of him.

Mark Sanchez = Brian Hoyer

comp%: 56,3 vs 56,5
TD/INT: 82/80 vs 19/19
ypa: 6,7 vs 7,2

Sanchez is a better runner but has a higher fumble %

Meh

Has Jay Cutler been discussed much here? I know he's a POS with a huge contract, but I believe 2015 is the last guaranteed year. I dislike his character about as much as I do Manziel's, but at least Cutler has some modicum of talent. I'm not necessarily advocating such a move, just throwing it out there. I wonder what it would take.

It's just the though of Mark Sanchez as the best available QB. Barf.

Wasn't there some talk last draft that TB told his agent if the Browns called, tell them Thanks, but No Thanks?

And one butt fumble. I believe he leads the league in that category.

I would take Sanchez long before I would even consider Cutler. Cutler had everything a QB could ever want in Chicago last year, and what did he do with it? He had a good year statistically, yet still got benched for being so lousy. He got benched for Jimmy Claussen, for Pete's sake! lol

Look at last year, and how he got outplayed by McCown, who bombed in Tampa Bay this year.

Cutler is very talented, until you get to the areas above the neck. He has nothing there. He would be an absolute disaster here.

As far as Sanchez, the Jets went away from him being a cog, to him being the backbone, and he could not do that. However, they did him no favors when they made that change either. Look at who Sanchez was throwing to in his final year in New York. Here's a hint. they sucked.

I think that he can be effective if he is not expected to load a team on his shoulders and carry them week in and week out. He is not that kind of QB. However, he can be effective on the kind of team we want to build, with a strong defense, and a strong run game.

Well, you ask a good question..we gripe and complain due to the way we ended the season losing the way we did..how is Hoyer be viewed across the league? As a guy who got his team close and the coaches pulled him at the 11th hour? Funny, but by playing JM against the Bengals, you leave the window open to saying Hoyer could have won the game (since he did win earlier)..A stretch I know but...If you are another NFL team, and you watch film on Hoyer, why would you not bring him in? You could see teams try and come get Hoyer, maybe?

That was a rumor, and one that Bridgewater dismissed.

Ok, thanks, I did not hear that

Not sure why you are surprised, I made no secret of it prior to the draft.

out of curiosity, why do we think either Sanchez or Cutler would be that much of an updgrade?

Sanchez tosses a lot of INT's and his rating runs in the 70's..Cutler is known for taking changes and gets bad INT's as well, though has better stats yet not sure mentally he could survive here either.
Cutler has been to the playoffs 2x (1-1) in 9 years...Sanchez is 4-2 in playoffs..

Both of them should be as mature as they will get...Sanchez into season 7 while Cutler will be season 10...

Bottom line - would there upside be any better than Hoyer?