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Steve, was that response to me?
Has anyone else noticed a weird board thing going on where who you intend to respond to isn't what's shown?
Something to do with the 'quick reply' by any chance? Yeah. Quick reply will quote OP. If you just go to the bottom of the page and reply, itll do OP.. If you click Quick Reply under the post of who you want to reply it.. It'll RE: them..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I didn't even see 'Quick reply' as an option on the post.
'Quote' or 'reply' is all I know. Don't need this newfangled doo-daddery.
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j/c...
12 is a good spot to usually get the BEST in the draft class for TE, ILB, Safety, OG, RB, RT...not educated too much on who is coming out this year but those are the usual suspects - I hope we get the best of something at our #12...not the 3rd or even 2nd best as a position.
We don't NEED as in Urgent need too much. We do need depth. Hopefully some rooks will step up and fill depth from last years. Mid to late rounds/UDFA in 2015 to help in depth.
Although I still have not given up on Manziel point is he is no sure thing to become a Franchise QB so we should not pass up on a Good Franchise Prospect if they are there at 12, I suck at names but I like the kid from USC is he coming out? I know Cook which I was hoping he would be there is staying for his Sr. year. But still if there is a good prospect you cannot say we don't NEED him.
TE might be my next NEED Cameron is a good WR. He doesn't get much Yards after contact for a TE, he is rather poor at blocking and he's a concussion away from retirement.
OL I wouldn't mind getting a stud RG at 12, 19 only so that Greco becomes the 6th man and we won't hurt too much with an injury. We NEED depth at OL rather than a starter. Which doesn't mean you don't upgrade if you can. But there is no dire NEED.
ILB? I'd rather take a stud Safety if we tender Robertson we will have Dansby who I thought played well last season, we can assume Kirksey will Progress into year two.
Safety Whitner I thought showed signs of age at times.
We could utilize a stud light DT to play our 3-4 DE we do get Monty back - Like that kid from Ohio State somebody of that caliber (I think he's a Sophmore and will not be coming out) but somebody built like him with the Impact.
Probably could use a good kicker there are a couple of good ones. But 4th round or later and I know he gets a lot of love but our Punter is not that good.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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We have a defense based upon rushing the passer, and yet we were 26th in sacks, with only 31. The Bills, Pettine's former team, and the team that shows what he wants on defense, had 56 sacks on the season this year.
We had one player, Kruger, with 11 sacks, and then Desmond Bryant with 5, and Karlos Dansby with 3. No one else on the team had more than 2 sacks last year. No one.
Sheard will almost certainly be gone. Mingo looks more and more like a situational guy. Rubin is probably gone. I think that we need at least 2 DL and an OLB. Now maybe we add one in free agency, but I cannot see us ignoring this vital area in the draft. This is who Pettine is. He is a defensive coach who wants the QB going down as often as possible, and otherwise pressured into mistakes. I see no way we don't address this area, above all others, (unless somehow we have a shot at a franchise level QB, but that is unlikely) in the coming draft. Rushing the passer is where we do, indeed, have an urgent, desperate need. (and probably 2 or 3 needs)
Some sites had Greco rated above Bitonio at G. Why would we need to replace him? He is an outstanding Guard. Schwartz is a capable RT in a league full of capable or below level RT. When we get Mack back, this OL returns to the level of being one of the best in the NFL. Should we look for depth? Sure. Should we do that in the 1st round? No freakin' way.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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You sign OL Depth in FA, or draft them in the later rounds.
You draft OL Starters in the first 3 rounds.
Teams that spend a bunch of money on OL starters in FA never seem to get a return on their investment. And drafting a guy in rounds 1-3 to sit UNTIL someone gets hurt is such a waste..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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We did OK signing Eric Steinbach several years ago .... and Tucker was a solid guy as well.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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We did OK signing Eric Steinbach several years ago .... and Tucker was a solid guy as well. Yeah. I always loved how when we drafted JT, and moved Shaffer to RT, and Tucker to RG.. Especially because on the left side you had clean cut finesse JT and Steinbach.. and the right was balls of hairy fury Shaffer and Tucker 
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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We have a defense based upon rushing the passer, and yet we were 26th in sacks, with only 31. The Bills, Pettine's former team, and the team that shows what he wants on defense, had 56 sacks on the season this year.
We had one player, Kruger, with 11 sacks, and then Desmond Bryant with 5, and Karlos Dansby with 3. No one else on the team had more than 2 sacks last year. No one.
Sheard will almost certainly be gone. Mingo looks more and more like a situational guy. Rubin is probably gone. I think that we need at least 2 DL and an OLB. Now maybe we add one in free agency, but I cannot see us ignoring this vital area in the draft. This is who Pettine is. He is a defensive coach who wants the QB going down as often as possible, and otherwise pressured into mistakes. I see no way we don't address this area, above all others, (unless somehow we have a shot at a franchise level QB, but that is unlikely) in the coming draft. Rushing the passer is where we do, indeed, have an urgent, desperate need. (and probably 2 or 3 needs)
Some sites had Greco rated above Bitonio at G. Why would we need to replace him? He is an outstanding Guard. Schwartz is a capable RT in a league full of capable or below level RT. When we get Mack back, this OL returns to the level of being one of the best in the NFL. Should we look for depth? Sure. Should we do that in the 1st round? No freakin' way.
This is a good post. I am not knocking Bitonio at all, but Grecco was outstanding this year. There were many games where I thought he was our best offensive lineman, and I absolutely love Joe T.
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Who would of thought that Watkins would help us get the 19th pick. Farmer wants to say that you can win without an elite WR but instead the Browns got a backup CB who they wont even let return kicks and another player at 19 who wont be the caliber of Watkins. I would have stayed at 4 and picked Watkins.
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Any of the WRs we could get at 19 can be as good, if not as better (Jaelen Strong, ASU) than Watkins..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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What a mess....
....we need a starting QB, WR, TE, RB, DL, OLB, CB
Still need depth on the OL, still need a thumper at ILB and have to start drafting replacements for Dansby and Whitner
We're looking at a complete rebuild, folks
I have zero faith in our talent evaluators to do this the right way. While most Homers might look at our record and think we got closer, I think we're further away than ever +1000000 Someone who doesn't let their fandom cloud their view of reality. And to expand, the rebuild, if you want to put the word build in it at all, will never end. It's an endless cycle of ineptness and stupidity in Cleveland. No one should have an ounce of faith in a guy who just drafted Gilbert and Manziel. It's almost as bad as the clowns that drafted Tbust and Weeds. At least Tbust broke the Browns rookie rushing record. This is worse. Dude had 11 picks in one of the best drafts ever and ended up with 6 selections. This might be Farmers last year.
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty, than those attending too small a degree of it."- Thomas Jefferson on Freedom of Speech
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Austin
Hawkins
Whitner
Dansby
Bitonio
West
Kirksey
Crowell
Gabriel
Williams
Does Farmer have things he needs to work on? Yes. But lets not act like he didn't bring anyone in that helped..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Austin
Hawkins
Whitner
Dansby
Bitonio
West
Kirksey
Crowell
Gabriel
Williams
Does Farmer have things he needs to work on? Yes. But lets not act like he didn't bring anyone in that helped.. I count 4 players that are clear cut starters or 3 down players, the rest are either situational players or below AVG (as starters)....and that's being generous. 2 of them are old vets. Farmer had 50+ million to spend in FA and 3 top 50 picks and another handful of mid round picks in an epically deep draft. That list proves what a poor job he's done considering what he had to work with. He held the best cards of any GM in the offseason and the end result is mid stack at best compared of other GMs aquisitions
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Just for fun. Here's what Ozzie brought to the Ravens this offseason. Remember, unlike Farmer he was AT or even OVER the cap in FA:
RB Forsett
S D.Stewart
C Zuttah
CB Cason
WR S.Smith
ILB Mosley
ILB D.Smith
ILB McClellan
DT Jernigan
RB Taliaferro
OG Urschel
TE Gilmore
FS T.Brooks
OT Hurst
9 of those will start next week in a PO game, 4 of them rooks, with 3 other rooks already on IR.
Ozzie OWNED Farmer, both in quality and even quantity of useful players. Not even close...and he had MUCH less to work with in FA and with regards to draft picks/value....and an already deeper roster to begin with.
This little research made me angry and sad. Makes me want to fire Farmer on the spot. What a pathetic effort
Last edited by DjangoBrown; 01/08/15 08:46 AM.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Ozzie also has the benefit of working for a perennial playoff team..
We aren't going to sign the Steve Smith's of the world yet..
Your argument is basically that the guy who's been a GM longer for a better team signed better players which means our GM sucks..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Just a little flaw I see in your perception. Our list of guys you whittle down to must be clear cut starters.
The Ravens list...if they are starting or in a rotation they are considered bona fide starters. 9
CB's we had Skrine and Hayden which there was no rookie going to beat them out - we got 3 young prospects for a Building foundation of a team. Gilbert, DeSir & Williams.
I see West/Crowell combo or West with a Crowell for a breather or vice versa...as a STARTER brought in. Just cause the position is shared by two brought in doesn't mean they don't count as a starter cause its by committee.
Oz is one of the best. Actually if you study this, Farmer is a student of Oz's drafting philosophy.
Is Farmer close to being as good as Oz...what are you kidding. Oz is one of the BEST EVER at what he does and he wasn't like that from day one...he's probably learned and grown every year in the business, why he is that good. 19 years vs Farmer's year one. Of course Oz is better.
Get a little real in your evaluation by comparison.
For a first year Farmer actually did bring in a body of Youth and Veterans that helped this team grow from 6 years of 4-5 win seasons to a 7 win season.
Right away...He's not as good as Oz...so what we get rid of him. If we follow that process we will have nothing but one or two year GMs and never grow into something.
My goodness let this body of work get at least its 3 years to build the team that they want...start to judge them then.
What I saw was a GM working with his HC taking what he perceived as a priority for his NEW HC. On Defense so much is centered around the Man to Man play so he took what was perceived to be the best MAN CB in the draft in Gilbert - he even said that he did so even though he felt he lacked in tackling skills but he knew we wanted that priority of Cover Corner. I remember those words or close to in the first month after the draft??? Somewhere before the season started.
He also went after a Raw Skill in DeSir - I liked the improvement from day 1 to end of the year. Picked up what appears to be a coveted CB in UDFA Williams. We also got the kid Nelson who knows what he'll become.
It wasn't playing some game of how these guys are graded making him a good or bad drafter. He obvious to me was building a team working with our HC which is the key to success - a GM and HC working together to achieve a goal!
I like Kirksey...he was out there with a lot of reps and contributed. West was a solid acquisition. Bitonio might of hit a rookie wall playing a position with no Rototion - but the guys is a keeper.
Austin, Hawkins, Gabriel...remember we were maybe deemed the worst WR corp in the NFL. Well they turned out to be a pretty good Crew...remember this is actual football and a team an Overall UNIT is more important than an individual talent like Gordon. He gave us a UNIT that did pretty well!
You know I don't mind a difference of opinion. But you better be actually correct when you go and spit on our TEAM.
Year ONE...our new Regime did pretty darn good!
Lets see where this goes. Rather than talk about Pettine will get fired, Farmer will get fired. I'm telling you both Pettine and Farmer will have special careers in this here NFL. I want it to be HERE together for a long long time.
We have tried everything...except CONTINUITY. Lets give that a go. Doesn't mean you cannot criticize either but to slam them as incompetent is both in correct and it does offend me as a fan.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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So, because I have some sort of mental illness, I went through several mock scenarios and this is what I liked best in sum. Unfortunately, it left out probably my favorite prospect in Matias, but I think it gives us the best combination of improved run D, improved pass rush, upgrade at outside corner depth, better size and skill at WR, and OL depth. Note that the guy who I have at OLB from UCLA, most people have him as a DL, but I think he is athletic enough to be an OLB like Armonty was coming out before they had him add 25 pounds. You could sub Markus Golden in there for him if that offends tour sensibilities. {CBS Ranking}
[1] 12) Davante Parker, WR Louisville {12}
[1] 19) Malcom Brown, DL, Texas {25}
[2] 43) Owamagbe Odighizuwa, OLB UCLA {62}
[3] 79) Grady Jarret, DL Clemson {99}
[4] 112ish) Ladarius Gunter, CB Miami {114} (or Josh Shaw, CB USC)
[4] 116ish) Stephone Anthony, ILB Clemson {170}
[5] 151ish) Deonte Greenberry, WR Houston {161} (or Bud Sasser, WR Missouri)
[6] 189ish) Jared Roberts, K Colorado State {189}
[6] 202ish) Mitch Morse, OT Missouri {316}
[7] 227ish) Dillon Day, C Miss St {349}
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Here's where that draft would put our roster --
Roster (50 total -- 3 spots for UDFA/FA/PS Players):
Offense (22)
QB (2): Manziel, Shaw, [Hoyer?]
RB (3): West, Crowell, Winston (FB?)
FB (0):
WR (5): Parker, Hawkins, Gabriel, Greenberry, Benjamin
TE (2): Dray, Barnidge, [Cameron?]
OT (4): Thomas, Schwartz, Bowie, Morse
OG (4): Bitonio, Greco, Painter, Seymour
CÂ (2): Mack, Day
Defense (25)
DL (7): D. Bryant, Taylor, Hughes, Winn, Brown, Jarret, Kitchen
OLB(4): Kruger, A. Bryant, Odighizuwa, Mingo
ILB(4): Dansby, Robertson, Kirksey, Anthony, Carder (ST)
CB (4): Haden, Desir, Gilbert, Gunter
NB (2): Williams, Nelson
FS (2): Gipson, Poyer
SS (2): Whitner, Bademosi
Specialists (3)
KÂ (1): Roberts
PÂ (1): Lanning
LS (1): Yount
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I Really Believe We Will Invest A 1st or 2nd Rd. Pick in A TE ... I would Love To Get Maxx Williams From Minnesota Who Just Decided To Come Out Early ... 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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I think we need to improve at TE, too... but I just don't see the value of the guys that are available. Next year's TE class should be much, much better. Same is true of safeties.
*edit* Oh yeah, and QBs.
Last edited by clevesteve; 01/09/15 12:37 PM.
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Just for fun. Here's what Ozzie brought to the Ravens this offseason. Remember, unlike Farmer he was AT or even OVER the cap in FA:
RB Forsett
S D.Stewart
C Zuttah
CB Cason
WR S.Smith
ILB Mosley
ILB D.Smith
ILB McClellan
DT Jernigan
RB Taliaferro
OG Urschel
TE Gilmore
FS T.Brooks
OT Hurst
9 of those will start next week in a PO game, 4 of them rooks, with 3 other rooks already on IR.
Ozzie OWNED Farmer, both in quality and even quantity of useful players. Not even close...and he had MUCH less to work with in FA and with regards to draft picks/value....and an already deeper roster to begin with.
This little research made me angry and sad. Makes me want to fire Farmer on the spot. What a pathetic effort Everyone of those guys plays better because of Flacco. And Harbaugh. And continuity. None of those guys on that list would have done chit with the Browns. Not a single one. Not one of those guys improves the record past 7-9. Not. A. Single. One. Ever wonder why the guys being called the best coaches and GMs in the league are guys that have QBs named Brady, Manning, Rodgers, etc.? This is no great mystery. Ozzie could come here tomorrow and until he finds a QB, he will suck. Then you can go on and say "he must have lost his edge." I think it's cool to be interested in the draft. I learn a ton about prospects from you and steve. I enjoy reading that. Just stick to that. Your fascination with Ozzie and comparing him to us is just silly. We all know what we need to fix the problem. It just so happens that it is the hardest problem to solve.
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Your theory has a little merit. I always remember OZ trying and trying to draft WRs and pretty high in the draft and was not successful. All of a sudden after Flacco was on board. The invested in WRs from the draft started hitting.
QB...Protect him...Get him those weapons. Should have some order to it.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Rishuz,
In my opinion, you can do one of two things. First, you get a Brady, Rodgers, or Payton type QB. Surround him with play makers and slightly above average line. Second, you build a top rate offensive line and surround it with above average play makers and QB. Both options won super bowls, so there is no best way.
Flaw in option one is you have to be pretty dang lucky getting a tier 1 QB, and you lose quality on defense because there isn't enough cap. Option 2 biggest issue is it takes awhile to assemble, and your need on defense is much greater.
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You can build the team first and insert the QB like the Ravens did, but that takes patience and continuity. Unfortunately, neither the Browns owner or the Browns fans will ever let that happen. It's a shame really. Our best ally in the face of not having a QB is to stick with coaches and FO staff for an extended period of time. The argument that sticking with continuity for continuity's sake is a weak one, IMO. There isn't much difference between coaches and scouts and GMs from team to team. Hell, they're all recycled anyway. Obviously, there will be always be outliers. But you identify a reasonably competent bunch and let them do their thing.
And while you can win a Super Bowl without a Top 10 QB, if you were to look at the last 20 Super Bowl winners, off the top of my head that has happened maybe two times. But I'll take this route at this point in time. The only constant in the last 15 years is coaching and FO changes. At some point, someone smart is going to have to finally give in and say ... outside of QB ... this is the biggest problem.
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Rishuz,
Last 10 you have an argument. If you take the last five super bowls winners, Russell Wilson, Joe Flacco, Eli & Peyton Manning, and Ben Roethlisberger. Four are above average QBs one tier 1.
What is the common denominator of the last four winners Seattle, Baltimore, NY Giants, and Pittsburgh? Run scheme heavy and defense.
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Rishuz,
In my opinion, you can do one of two things. First, you get a Brady, Rodgers, or Payton type QB. Surround him with play makers and slightly above average line. Second, you build a top rate offensive line and surround it with above average play makers and QB. Both options won super bowls, so there is no best way.
Flaw in option one is you have to be pretty dang lucky getting a tier 1 QB, and you lose quality on defense because there isn't enough cap. Option 2 biggest issue is it takes awhile to assemble, and your need on defense is much greater.
One could argue that option #2 is much harder to keep together long enough to build, as players hit free agency before the build is complete.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Dawg Talker
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Rishuz,
In my opinion, you can do one of two things. First, you get a Brady, Rodgers, or Payton type QB. Surround him with play makers and slightly above average line. Second, you build a top rate offensive line and surround it with above average play makers and QB. Both options won super bowls, so there is no best way.
Flaw in option one is you have to be pretty dang lucky getting a tier 1 QB, and you lose quality on defense because there isn't enough cap. Option 2 biggest issue is it takes awhile to assemble, and your need on defense is much greater.
One could argue that option #2 is much harder to keep together long enough to build, as players hit free agency before the build is complete. True. But, compare that to getting a tier 1 QB. Browns are living proof. In all their years of existence, twice they got a tier 1 Bernie Kosar and Otto Graham. Browns were successful using both options Kosar years and Sipe years. It takes commitment from ownership to maintain.
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I loved Kosar, but never considered him "Tier 1". I didn't put him in the same league as Elway or Marino. More like a Dan Fouts, maybe. Anyway, I don't think you need an "Elite" at QB to win it all, but you probably need a top 10 guy, which is where I'd put Kosar in his day.
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I loved Kosar, but never considered him "Tier 1". I didn't put him in the same league as Elway or Marino. More like a Dan Fouts, maybe. So, you think Kosar is a Hall of Fame QB? 
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Nope. "More like" isn't "the same as". He was closer to Fouts than he was to Elway or Marino, was my point.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,028 Likes: 14 |
I loved Kosar, but never considered him "Tier 1". I didn't put him in the same league as Elway or Marino. More like a Dan Fouts, maybe. Anyway, I don't think you need an "Elite" at QB to win it all, but you probably need a top 10 guy, which is where I'd put Kosar in his day. I hear you. I can see both sides of the argument. I don't consider Drew Brees a tier 1 more a product of the system. Saints's talent at the play maker position diminished a little, funny, so did Drew's numbers I would consider Bernie a better option then Brees. I put Bernie at low tier 1 or high tier 2.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,028 Likes: 14
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,028 Likes: 14 |
I loved Kosar, but never considered him "Tier 1". I didn't put him in the same league as Elway or Marino. More like a Dan Fouts, maybe. So, you think Kosar is a Hall of Fame QB? Only thing standing in Bernie's way of a yellow jacket is not winning a super bowl as a starter. Kurt Werner has a shot. You think he is head-and-shoulders above Bernie?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Only thing standing in Bernie's way of a yellow jacket is not winning a super bowl as a starter. That and having a Hall of Fame caliber career. Other than not having those two things, he'd be a shoe-in. Kurt Werner has a shot. You think he is head-and-shoulders above Bernie? Head, shoulders, knees and toes. Not even close.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Nope. "More like" isn't "the same as". He was closer to Fouts than he was to Elway or Marino, was my point. Sorry, but the 'Tier 1' verbiage threw me off.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,387
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,387 |
Only thing standing in Bernie's way of a yellow jacket is not winning a super bowl as a starter. That and having a Hall of Fame caliber career. Other than not having those two things, he'd be a shoe-in. Kurt Werner has a shot. You think he is head-and-shoulders above Bernie? Head, shoulders, knees and toes. Not even close. But Bernie's football knowledge is head, shoulders, knees and toes greater than any guy that the Browns have had since the return. He knows a dysfunctional organization when he sees it and he is spot on. Of course, it doesn't take a genius to know that.
Congratulations to our 2016 NBA Champion CLEVELAND CAVALIERS!!! Greatest comeback in sports history... Hail to the King!
The great QB guru and the Moneyball group: 1-15
Record of Criminal Haslam owned Browns: 20-60 (0.250)
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
I don't think Bernie Kosar is necessarily the man you want running your football team.
I have no problem having him in the organization. Hell, give the guy a crack at QB coach.
But he doesn't seem suited for an executive role.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,387
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Posts: 2,387 |
Not saying he should be a coach or front office guy. But you know what, he couldn't do any worse than what we have had right? Really doesn't matter anyway, because our crooked owner seems to think he can do it all.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,028 Likes: 14
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,028 Likes: 14 |
Only thing standing in Bernie's way of a yellow jacket is not winning a super bowl as a starter. That and having a Hall of Fame caliber career. Other than not having those two things, he'd be a shoe-in. Kurt Werner has a shot. You think he is head-and-shoulders above Bernie? Head, shoulders, knees and toes. Not even close. Maybe if Bernie had the talent Kurt had around him Faulk, Holt, and Bruce. Kurt also had Orlando Pace at LT, Ryan Tucker as RT, and Andy McCollum at C. I could have won a Super Bowl with that many weapons and protection. When in AZ, he had Edgerrin James, Fitzgerald, and Boldin. I don't remember much about the OL. I thought it was tops in the league. How many HOF players did Bernie have playing around him? Kurt is a very good QB. You have to remember he was never drafted. He did not play for a big College. Give him a awesome OL and surround with talent Kurt shined. Look at his non-super bowl years. Kurt isn't the hottest QB in league.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Only thing standing in Bernie's way of a yellow jacket is not winning a super bowl as a starter. That and having a Hall of Fame caliber career. Other than not having those two things, he'd be a shoe-in. Kurt Werner has a shot. You think he is head-and-shoulders above Bernie? Head, shoulders, knees and toes. Not even close. Maybe if Bernie had the talent Kurt had around him Faulk, Holt, and Bruce. Kurt also had Orlando Pace at LT, Ryan Tucker as RT, and Andy McCollum at C. I could have won a Super Bowl with that many weapons and protection. When in AZ, he had Edgerrin James, Fitzgerald, and Boldin. I don't remember much about the OL. I thought it was tops in the league. How many HOF players did Bernie have playing around him? Kurt is a very good QB. You have to remember he was never drafted. He did not play for a big College. Give him a awesome OL and surround with talent Kurt shined. Look at his non-super bowl years. Kurt isn't the hottest QB in league. You asked if Warner was head and shoulders above Bernie when it comes to HoF likelihood. The answer is yes. Warner threw for 32,344 yards and 208 TD's. Bernie put up 23,301 and 124.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,028 Likes: 14
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
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You asked if Warner was head and shoulders above Bernie when it comes to HoF likelihood. The answer is yes.
Warner threw for 32,344 yards and 208 TD's. Bernie put up 23,301 and 124.
Come on PDR! He had future HOFs as receivers! Who couldn't get those numbers. Name one Brown in the same class as Bruce, Holt, Boldin, and Fitzgerald, On top of that, they had Air Coryell disciple Mike Martz as the OC.
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Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season The NFL Draft 2015 With the 12th and 19th pick in the
2015 draft CLEVELAND selects...
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