DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Start Derek Anderson

General Reply

Everyone is so eager to defend the hometown hero that they are ignoring the fact that Anderson did something Frye hasnt done all year. Thats win. Frye was having a good game thanks to some amazing catches by JJ but it wasnt setting the world on fire performance.

Anderson's wasnt either but he put together 2 td drives and would have been a 3rd but we ran twice and kicked the game winning fieldgoal.

Anderson carried this team to victory yesterday. How many opportunities has Charlie had to win games in the 4th quarter? We have played everyone super tight but just couldnt score any points on offense.

Now i realize Anderson gives a new meaning to the term long shot but lets face it, it really sheds a light on Frye. Has Charlie had one performance that equals what DA did yesterday.

Peen -

coupla questions. Usually your position on things doesn't surprise me, but this one's got me a bit surprised.

Its not like Charlie was sucking it up and Anderson came in and saved the day. I know you've been questioning Charlie more and more lately (and rightfully so), but what makes you so sure that this isn't Holcomb syndrome? Even Charlie played well with the running game and protection there in the first half. I think his rating was somewhere around 130+.

Also, do you think its possible that Anderson = rebound girlfriend? You know you always start out looking for the exact opposite of your ex. Anderson throws hard, looks more like an NFL QB, etc, etc, but over time you start to notice some things about the new chic that maybe you were taking for granted with the ex. See where I'm going?

Backups have little/no pressure and just play to have fun.

General comments

If the Chiefs had scored first in OT, all we'd be hearing about is who did what wrong, and one of the big ones would be Anderson's INT at the end of regulation. Does this kid have any idea how to thow a pass under 100 MPH? Same thing in pre-season - over and over. Its called "touch", son. You can't throw the ball through defenders. Other than that - I think most of his mistakes were due to lack of snaps with this starting unit. His reads were just as slow as Charlie's, but his zip made the timing of the throws look better. Can't wait to go back and watch it again tonight on film.

KC is NOT a good defense at getting pressure on the QB and they were unable to exploit our biggest offensive weakness. The "O" as a whole played great but consistency is what's killed us all year. Let see if the progress continues.

People commenting on DA play action. It was decent, but its amazing how much better play-action works against a defense when the running game is actually working, eh?

Best called game on offensive I've seen by the Browns in over a decade. Very creative and well executed to boot. Usually an offense making big plays like that is against us - not for us.

At this point, it looks like Anderson's going to finish out the season. Young QBs make their biggest leaps in the off-season and this'll give Charlie's a chance to watch, study, and get better. Lets see what Anderson can do and, best case, we have a QB competition on the off-season. No matter who win's, the Browns will be better for it and that's all that matters.

Frye had his best game yesterday, and low and behold we had a running game and the O-Line gave him time to throw. Amazing how that works.

I can only speak for myself.....it isn't anywhere near the same. Holcomb was clearly better.....here we don't know. All I have wanted for the last few weeks is to at least get a look at Anderson, if nothing else as a way to get a better guage on Frye. We know the problems Charlie has encountered..seeing someone else will/would help see what is problems were without the cloud of question marks.....wondering if he was part of the problem or if his problems are mostly other bum players.


LOL.....no....not for me anyway...all I want is to see what we have. To be honest....i don't really care for any players, so it really makes little difference to me who plays.....as long as they produce. I will be the first to admit I wear my emotions on my sleeve and am ready to pull any bum in favor of another bum in a heartbeat. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />(and don't take the word bum here and think it just applies to Charlie or any one player...it can apply to them all)


I don't buy that for a second. They play to prove they deserve a shot at starting and remain a member of the team..If anything they have MORE pressure...they have been around long enough to know that in this business there are tons of players who never really got a shot, so when their number is called, it needs to be primetime baby...they may never get the call again.

Here is the only reason at this point I like what Anderson brings.....and it is only one...all the other stuff has to pan out with more playtime before I can go any further in the comparison of QB's.

Anderson's window doesn't need to remain open for as long as the window for Charlie does. And that will never change unless Anderson ends up with a gimp arm.

Covered players in the NFL usually aren't wide open and the window between a completion and a pick or batted ball closes rather quickly. All things being equal, the guy who can zip it in there the quickest is going to enjoy more success.

That doesn't mean we won't find out Anderson is a dim-wit and trys to force throws where they shouldn't go....he might, and if he does, he needs to be canned if that can't be corrected. But right now, the window of opportunity will always be in his favor.

So far...I said so far....he shows good pocket poise, the ability to move in the pocket, the ability to run some, and the ability to lead his team in the 4th qtr. But.....it is only one half of one game...but we have been down this road before where we hear people make excuses for one guy on why he hasn't done the job and then make excuses why a guy does get it done. I find that foolish.

All I want is to see the kid play...and it looks like we will. If he does good....great....if not....oh well...we still have Charlie....who frankly hasn't done enough for me to say he has things locked up in Cleveland....I don't think many do....but let's don't try to diminish anything Anderson does because we have some feeling we want Chuck.....Let's just see how it plays out.....plus....the odds are both of them are bums who will need to be replaced in a year or two anyway so I see no real need to get all hung up over journeymen players.

It will all become clear in time.

[color:"GOLD"] Mourg....wow...seems you have made up your mind, Anderson is the man!

Based on one half of a football game?....don't think so!

The Browns don't need any QB controversies started by the "fans".

Been there, done that...and no good comes from it.

I will approach the issue from the point that the Browns might as well get a look at all the young players now that we are not likely going to the playoffs.

This was a great opportunity to see Anderson play and it appears that he will be starting against the Steelers so we can see more of him. I see the situation as nothing but good for the Browns as we plan for the future.

I believe in competition and that competition only makes the team better. That goes for every position on the football team, including QB. The coaching staff needs to see what guys like Anderson can do.

Could Anderson be our future starting QB? Sure could, if he proves himself on the field, if Anderson "earns" it. He has an opportunity and he needs to take advantage of that opportunity.

Then it's up to the coaching staff, not the fans!

[/color]

1st of all welcome to the board..........

2nd of all.......
[color:"white"]Frye had his best game yesterday, and low and behold we had a running game and the O-Line gave him time to throw. Amazing how that works. [/color]

yes frye had his best game yesterday and it wasn't because we had the run game or the OL was protecting him. how many times was he hit in the 1st half before he went out? he played well because of THREE POINT TWO SECONDS. that's what they worked on all week. 3.2 seconds and the ball must be in the air. we were moving the ball in the air which opened up the run game, which made our OL look better. amazing how that works isn't it?

I hope CF is able to play on Thursday and shows some consistency with getting rid of the ball in a timely manner.
He had one bad game in the past four - I'm sure not ready to hand over the reigns to DA, but at least Anderson showed he MAY be a good backup.

Or a good starter.

Yes, that too. After yesterday we have to, at the very least, consider the possibility.

I have no probs with them duking it out next training camp, if it hasn't been decided before then (which is what we really should hope for because we want a clear-cut No. 1).

Mourg....wow...seems you have made up your mind, Anderson is the man!

I never said that anywhere. It just proves that Charlie isnt the man. There is a huge difference there.

Our D and special teams has been kept us in the short field all year and we couldnt find the endzone using mapquest.com.

Anderson is not the man but I sure hope he is cause I am convinced if he isnt we will be drafting a QB.

I dont care for Brady Quinn but he is running the same offense that Davidson is installing here. That right there is enough to make me sweat.

[color:"white"] Or a good starter.
[/color]

he looked just as capable as charlie yesterday and if there isn't a competition this off season, we need to look very closely at whomever makes that decision.
we are not obligated to a high 1st rd contract with charlie, so not having a competition to find our best QB would only mean there's personal opinions involved that has nothing to do with doing what's best for this team.

Or maybe and I know this is hard for some to believe. The poeple making those decisions know more than the poeple talking about it on a message board.

It's possible that they see something in practice everyday that makes them think Frye is better than DA.

Since the Browns dont allow anyone to watch an actual practice all we have to go on is what we see on Sunday.

Now what we have seen is the best special teams unit put the ball in great position for the offense all year only to see field goal attempts.

Now Anderson for all intensive purproses is probaly a backup in NFLE but this is the scary part.

Anderson better pocket presense
Anderson stronger arm
Anderson quicker release
Anderson better accuracy
Anderson can make throws Charlie couldnt attempt. The TD pass to Heiden is a pick if Charlie throws it.

Charlie has better mobility outside the pocket
Charlie can put some touch on the deep pass Anderson cant

Those 2 just dont stack up even anyway u cut it. DA isnt a superstar QB and most likely a scrub but he makes our starter look pretty bad.

I don't know if you can say that Mour, you can really only compare them when they were playing the same defense. (As our line was getting much better pass protection yesterday than they have been at any other point I can remember this year, except possibly in the Jets game)

Charlie looked great yesterday (playing hurt as well), he didn't miss any open targets (Anderson on several occasions rocketed the ball past receivers who were wide open (Winslow comes to mind, as do several others) I've never seen Frye miss a wide open target all year the way I saw Anderson miss several yesterday.

Anderson certainly has a stronger arm, but I'm not sure that is a reason to doubt Charlie, who has maken several good deep passes this year.

I think if you go back and just watch this game to compare Charlie and Anderson you will see Charlie was clearly the superior QB. Anderson had a great game and led us to an improbable win, however, Charlie was dynamite out there in the first half, even when he was injured.

~Lyuokdea

Your post proves it just depends what you look at.

That pass to Winslow...at least the one i am thinking of went through Winslows hands...

At any rate.....people shouldn't fear Anderson.....if he is better, he is better....if not, he isn't......I don't understand why people are fearful of giving him a decent look.

I have no problem giving him a look. I just want the organization to make a decision before the start of next year. If in the preseason they decide on Frye then that's the guy. If they like DA fine.

The last thing I want is a QB controversy. I've seen those as has everyone else here and no good comes from it. I don't care who is behind center I just want wins. No matter who is the QB I'll cheer him all the way. It's not my call. I'll leave it to the poeple that know more about football than I do.

I'm not worried about giving him a look, and if he works well it would be great. I just didn't see it yesterday. I saw a Kansas defense drop back because they were up 28-14 on a first start QB, and they started playing a prevent. Which always makes a QB look good. Anderson played really well, and made them pay, including a really nice pass to Heiden in the end zone. But I certainly did not see Anderson outplaying Frye yesterday. I guess I'll have to go back and watch it again before I can say anything definitive.

~Lyuokdea

I never saw a prevent at all. They play a base cover 2 and vary it up. They brought pressure but wasnt able to get Anderson down. The guy showed a pretty quick release and mobility within the pocket. That was the 2 best things that I saw from him along with making the quick read.

Nobody does. But guess what? There will always be one here and on every other team out there that has a starter who doesn't pull away from the other QB's on the roster. You had one in SF sometime back because the starter....one of the best ever....couldn't pull far enough away from the back-up who also turned out to be one of the best ever.....so this deal isn't limited to scrub or mid level players....it is across the board.

Until Frye clearly pulls away from a guy like Anderson, it is what it is.

When I look at what Charlie did in the first few drives and then look at what Anderson did, I don't see any difference in production at all. Charlie moved the team just as effectively as Derek did.


Now, as for one thing Mourg mentioned: Accurracy... sorry, I completely disagree there. I think Charlie is more accurrate. Derek badly missed more than one yesterday. Also, touch... Derek is like Dilfer in that he has no change-up...everything is a fastball as hard as it can be thrown.

If Derek takes the job, so be it...whatever is best for the team, but considering they both had a great deal of success against what I feel is a poor defense (toss your stats, I don't care what they say), we haven't learned much of anything at all.

With Charlie's hand not being broken, I guess there's a chance that he will play Thursday but it's probably not likely. So we should get to see how Derek does against a good defense that is game planning for him. It'll also be interesting to see the difference in how much pressure Pitt brings vs. what we saw yesterday (credit whoever you want, the line, the running game, getting the ball out in under 3.2s... they couldn't get pressure yesterday) and what sort of running attack we'll be able to produce.

As always, the QB gets far, far too much credit in a win and far, far too much blame in a loss.

I am not saying frye didn't look good.

But one does have to give a little weight to this was Andersons 1st NFL action.......maybe it was beginners luck....maybe it is the starting point......only time will tell.

My reply wasn't directed at just you, just folks in general, but I think that "....only time will tell." is the only realistic weight we can assign it at this point.

I should have been more clear, i thought he showed better accuracy in the short to mid game. Not as many passes thrown behind the receivers.

Knox- I think it might have been you and I a couple weeks ago who talked about the "game slowing down" for Charlie in some long-gone thread.

Putting that 3.2 limit on him was a great idea. It forced him to trust the play and the players around him. I think part of Charlie's problem w/ holding the ball too long was that he was waiting to see an open player, instead of trusting that player to get open after the ball was in the air. Balls were always arriving late, on back shoulders, etc.

When he used the 3.2 deadline on Sunday, the O seemed to have more pace and control. We were able to dictate to them, and looked a lot better, in general. Even Charlie's post-injury "ducks" were either caught, or could have been caught... because they were placed in the area sooner, giving our players a better shot at the ball.

Sure wish we'd have put him through these timing drills during the bye week. Kinda makes you wonder how the season would have progressed, eh?

well, the important thing to me is what it means for next season if it is indeed the case.

If the whole difference is truly just those timing drills as a means of forcing the game to slow down, then the future would indeed be bright..... but again (for both QB's) it's a single performance.... and that's just not enough to draw any conclusions from.

[color:"white"]Anderson nearly cost us the game twice yesterday, and a big chunk of his yards came on a well designed shuttle pass that even I could have gained 30 on *L* Yes, he made a couple of fantastic plays, one throw to Winslow where he faked, creating space for Winslow, and the run, which speaks for itself. We won the game, and I enjoyed the Hell out of it.

BUT, Anderson is going to throw 4 picks against the Steelers, and when he does, all this euphoria will come crashing back down to Earth.

I was glad to see Frye FINALLY get some time to throw the ball, and he looked good doing it. I still don't fully believe in him, but he's showing enough to continue to get looks. Anderson didn't do anything that Frye couldn't have done.[/color]

If Anderson starts and plays well/wins against the HATED Steelers. Its gonna be awfully tough for Charlie to get his job back this year. Who knows Anderson may suck it up terribly bad against the Steelers. KC's D is definitely no Steelers D they're going to make Anderson look lost and he isnt the fastest QB in the world, Ive seen malasis move faster, but neither is Tom Brady he just has great pocket presence and knows how to get rid of the football. I saw some of that in DA lets see If he can do it against a great D! If he whips them the way he did KC I think we can say we may have found a new QB. Its one thing to beat KC at home but to beat the Steelers in Pittsburgh is huge and DA will get all the respect from the fans!

Just posted on the team site

X-rays negative on Frye
Jeff Walcoff, Staff Writer
12.04.2006
Results of x-rays taken on the right wrist of injured quarterback Charlie Frye were negative, Browns head coach Romeo Crennel said Monday.

Crennel said Frye will have further tests Monday, along with an MRI, to make sure there is no further problems with the wrist.

Frye suffered the injury during the second quarter of the team's victory over Kansas City Sunday. He left for a series and was replaced by Derek Anderson. Frye returned on the next series but left for good after halftime.

Anderson then helped lead the team on a 14-point comeback victory.

Frye was having a good day before he left. He completed 11-for-13 passes for 122 yards and a touchdown.

Crennel said it's too early to speculate whether Frye will be available to play in Thursday night's matchup against the Steelers at Heinz Field in Pittsburgh.

Yep, yep, and yep. (I am allowed to agree sometimes, right? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

If anything, Charlie would have given us a better chance to win in regulation and we wouldn't have had to rely on OT in the first place.

The "picks" comment I'd agree with, but its contingent on more than just Anderson. If we struggle running the ball and/or protecting him, I'll be "pleased" w/ "only" 4 picks. If we can keep the pressure off (mainly by running the ball) - I think he'll be adequate to keep us in the game. I'm not even close to being sold on Charlie, but I'd much rather have him going into Thursday.

Anderson should start Thursday. Frye's dinged up and Anderson being healthy gives us a better chance to win. If Anderson lights it up, I think we should then let him finish off the rest of the year as the starter. If Anderson has a so-so game Thursday, we should go back to Frye IF Frye is healty for the Ravens game.

The point a lot of folks are missing I think is that if you have a part that gets you one type of performance, then you change that part and you're still getting that type of performance, and the performance of both is above what it's been in the past, then it's a pretty damned good bet that the changed parts in question aren't the cause of the performance increase, even if it's that part you are seeing the increased performance from.

[color:"white"]

Well sure, but where's the fun in that? *L*

I think the picks are going to come from Anderson's lack of ability to read defenses. Combine that with the fact that I doubt he's ever seen the kind of zone-blitz that he's going to face this week, and it looks like a no-win for Anderson.

Glad to see that Frye's wrist isn't broken. If it's not broken, it can't heal incorrectly. [/color]

Just call him a tadpole and be done with it... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Where does that come from? There's no way you saw enough of him to conclude this from yesterday afternoon.




He hasn't been on the field.... which IS a big factor, but he's been in the same rooms & meetings as Charlie and the coaches and he's been on the sidelines reading blitzes and coverages during the games. Is it the same as being out there? No, but it's a good bit more than having never seen it.

[color:"white"]College bubba, college.

Working the kind of hours I do, I was always getting home from work when the west coast games started. I got to see all kinds of juggernaut teams like the Beavers, the Rainbow Warriors (or whatever the call Hawaii *L*) Arizona State, etc etc etc. I have watched Anderson play in roughly 6-8 games during his last couple of years in college, and he had two primary problems. The first was reading defense, the second was making poor decision with the football. He didn't know when to not throw the ball which led to a lot of extra picks, and he didn't always see the defender when he was right in front of the receiver.

Such issues were there in yesterdays game. He threw one ball to his right that probably was a pick had it been thrown better (hard to say that *L*), and he did throw the pick when we were trying to win it in regulation. On both occasions, he shouldn't have thrown the ball. That's the same guy I saw a few years ago. If he can't make good decisions against a vanilla 4-3, he isn't going to be able to disect the zone-blitz. It'll be easy to blame it on lack of experience, which will honestly be a huge factor, but he should have thrown 2 picks in 1 half of football against a not-so intimidating defense, so I see no reason to believe he'll be magical against the Steelers.[/color]

God do I HATE Ctown football fans.

Last week it was the ridiculous Bench Edwards thread, this week its the equally ridiculous sit Charlie thread.

I'm all for debating the Browns, but my god people--Anderson just did what a Back-up is supposed to do--come in for an injured starter and run the offense. That means he's a good back-up.

Its Charlie's team and there is NO reason to even think otherwise. Everyone says Charlie has never mounted a comeback, what about the game against Oakland. He did it then!!!

You people all are just flavor of the week. Last week it was all about hating on Braylon, this week is all about DA knob glossing.

Utterly Ridiculous.

<img src="/images/graemlins/plthumbsdown.gif" alt="" />

[color:"white"]Here's what happens.

1) Starter makes some plays but makes some boneheaded ones as well.

2) Team loses.

3) Fans get desperate and try to fix things that aren't necessarily broken: Fire the coach, get a new running back, get a new quarterback, fire the strength and conditioning coach, sacrifice a live, virgin chicken to the Volcano God, and

4) See a glimpse of hope from the #2 QB and call for him to get his shot.

Couch had finally failed in most everyone's eyes, so when Holcomb is called upon, he does some good things. People conveniently forget that the #2 doesn't have much experience, isn't near close to perfect, and has spotty performances on his record. They simply want to search for that spark and the best guy in line is the #2.

Now, not all fans are for starting Anderson over Frye. Some are. Some may disguise their dislike for Frye by saying "eh, it wouldn't hurt to give Anderson a shot" while others will see what they want to see.

The reality is that Frye has played well at times, but he's also played horribly at times. He hasn't played well enough to have earned a unified fan-base. This is the result. The truth is that this is still Frye's job right now, and from where you're standing, that should be good enough. If he's the guy, he'll prove he's the guy. That's all you can ask for. [/color]

[color:"orange"]haha...guess what - we disagree.

I was very impressed with DA and I think this most definately answers a lot of peoples questioning of Savage not going hard on getting somebody to back up CF.

the part I disagree with is that CF is Wally Pipp. You got all that from that half...too impressionable, actually I was expecting this thread from Peen.

the only problem I have really and I have none with the way DA played. Just remember he did so with our OL dominating the KC DL and they were tired and not presenting any pressure. I was impressed with his arm strength and touch. I was more impressed with the fact that we were able to check down than the fact that he did so. He stayed in the pocket but there actually was a pocket to stay in...and he delivered. Great!

But I can't forget what I saw before that. Probably the best game from CF in his career...he did so many things great before the 2nd half and against a fresh DL able to fight hard. he was accurate with his throws and more accurate with QUICK decisions...I was very impressed.

I was very impressed with the 2 long drives he made.

So although I was very impressed and happy with the results of DA...its doesn't come in a situation where CF wasn't producing and then he did. CF looked better and was doing his 2nd drive with the injured wrist.

Here are the facts...what CF did was good. Its on the coaches tape - I'm sure they are very thrilled with his game.

I think his injury is enough to sideline him where he might start practicing on Thursday and be ready for a Sunday game...obviously we all know we play on Thursday.

So DA will get the reps in practice and I think he should get the start. If CF's injury isn't a break...the coaches will say he will be day to day so that the Steelers won't know who will be playing.

But I think DA will get the start...possibly if its the type of game that DA is struggling and our D has kept us in the game maybe CF will come in late to save the day???

Sorry no I'm not a CF zombie and fan. But the kid played great...not good but great - he did a lot of things that showed he actually arrived.

DA was just the right guy in the right place and he played his heart out with success. But I think CF is our guy. Good to know though...if CF goes down in the future - we aren't as lost as many thought.

But... [color:"red"]"He's the future!
Charlie Frye is Wally Pip!"

[color:"orange"]Is an overreaction from someone who is way too optimistic...lol <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> j/k

Anderson's pass to KW was at least a foot to high. KW had to actually jump to catch it. Anderson is very inaccurate. He has very big feet, size 17. Marino had small feet. Worst of all, he is not from Ohio. We are nothing but homers here. I think Anderson is from some place called Oregon.Even my GPS never heard of Oregon. Frye from Ohio, Kosar from Ohio, see the pattern. The best football players come from Ohio. Brett Musberger said this so it must be true. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Watch how you use those you's....and all's many of us understand football and how it works, ....your comments are not appriciated...

Many of us understand this is Charlies team if DA was better than he would have started the last 12 games,

Many of us also understand BE is young and will make mistakes on the field and with his mouth, he dosent need to be benched, just a talk'en to and told whats expected as you mature in this leauge. ...