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Actually, this move might mean that the Browns are not looking at having him change positions and looking at McKinnie and Tucker as the starters. 
I'd be okay with that.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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would trading him clear cap space for signing both Thomas and Quinn?
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I'm not a cap guy, so someone else will have to answer. I don't like BSing my way through an answer. I think I read somewhere that trading him would result in a substantial hit against the cap next year, but I'm not sure. Hell.......it might have been in the original article on this thread, but it might not be. Aaaargghhh...........why did I reply?  
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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That would be sweet, but I don't think it is going to happen.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Hey, you already rained on one parade in the Respectability thread (though I did too  )... allow me some dreamin man
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I'm not a cap guy, so someone else will have to answer. I don't like BSing my way through an answer. I think I read somewhere that trading him would result in a substantial hit against the cap next year, but I'm not sure. Hell.......it might have been in the original article on this thread, but it might not be.
Aaaargghhh...........why did I reply?
From the original article:
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Trading Shaffer would also cause over $7.5 million to accelerate to the Browns 2007 salary cap. Shaffer signed a seven-year contract with the Browns in 2006 with an estimated $9 million in bonuses. If those reports are accurate, six years of the pro-rated bonus would have to be absorbed this year.
Because of the substantial cap hit that we would have to take this year, i doubt that we would cut or trade him. Especially if we wanted to sign our rookies 
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Sorry. And I just reread what I wrote on the other thread. I wasn't trying to negative, but it didn't come out quite the way I intended. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Tony Grossi confirmed with Shaffer's agent that he wants out, doesn't wanna move to the right side.
He's good as gone.
Oh well, if you don't wanna make the switch, good riddance.
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Where'd you see that?
[color:"brown"] Top Dawg[/color] ![[Linked Image from dawg-pound.net]](http://www.dawg-pound.net/uploads/brownsfan.png)
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Tony Grossi confirmed with Shaffer's agent that he wants out, doesn't wanna move to the right side.
He's good as gone.
Oh well, if you don't wanna make the switch, good riddance.
Part of me wants to say good riddence, but the other part of me wants to say "They own you and your rights!"
The team, honestly, doesn't owe him anything. If he doesn't play, he doesn't get paid. Neither he, nor his agent, have any say in the matter. At least thats what a contract is supposed to mean.
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Where'd you see that?
Sunday Strategy draft special on STO that was on at 8 tonight.
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Grossi is kind of an idiot though. I don't know how much stock I would put into anything he says.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Grossi is kind of an idiot though. I don't know how much stock I would put into anything he says.
Kind of? 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/GmuEd.gif) "One man's Bum is another man's Hobo" - Waterdawg
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jc I knew we won´t be happy with Shaffer 2 days after we signed him when I read that he grew up as a Steelers-fan  I didn´t like him ever since...and then he played like crap and demands help from others....I hope we cut him and he ends up starting for the Steelers
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Ammo,, wasn't Grossi the guy who before the season was over last year stated that Bill Cowher would be our coach in 2007..
Then in his Ask Tony column, told a guy that Cowher would never come to Cleveland,,
There is something wrong with Tony,,, not sure what, but he's been saying things lately without reason to say it...
Wierd I know, but it's true... Don't count on anything Grossi says.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Just clicking.....I find it amusing that for the longest time a group of people have been complaining about how bad the line is, and now we are talking about trading guys. LMAO
Here is an idea. How about we go into camp with what we have and anybody else we pick up between now and then, and then work to keep the 9 best we have??
If you are going to trade somebody, how about Andrew Hoffman??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1178008786327380.xml&coll=2 Shaffer sees future, wants new address
Tuesday, May 01, 2007
Tony GrossiPlain Dealer Reporter
With top draft pick Joe Thomas penciled in at left tackle for the Browns, the agent for Kevin Shaffer said he will ask the team for permission to seek a trade.
"I think Kevin, in our dialogue, would welcome an opportunity to go somewhere else," agent Alan Herman said on Monday.
A trade that would have sent Shaffer to the New York Giants has fallen through, for now. Giants General Manager Jerry Reese confirmed to New York reporters that he spoke to the Browns about Shaffer on Sunday. But the teams apparently couldn't agree on a deal.
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"At this time, we are going to maintain our depth at the position," Browns General Manager Phil Savage said in an e-mail response.
Other teams possibly searching for an experienced left tackle include Houston and Miami.
Herman believes Shaffer is an attractive player because of his experience and contract. Shaffer was one of Savage's high-profile signings in the 2006 free-agent season. Shaffer received a $36 million deal over seven years, with $12 million in signing and option bonuses.
Because the bonuses already have been paid by the Browns, Shaffer would take up less space on a traded team's salary cap than he does with the Browns. Trading Shaffer would result in a "significant" hit on the Browns' salary cap - upwards of $8 million - but Herman believes the Browns have the room to absorb it.
Shaffer, 27, started all 16 games at left tackle in his first year with the Browns, but the re views were not good. He became expendable after the Browns used their first draft pick Saturday on Thomas.
During the draft, Savage and coach Romeo Crennel both said Thomas would be given the opportunity to win the starting job at left tackle. Crennel hinted Shaffer could compete with Thomas, but also could be tried at right guard, where a starting position is open.
"I'm sure Kevin would prefer to remain at left tackle and if not there, then right tackle," Herman said. "And if it wasn't meant to be there, no hard feelings, and he'd prefer to move on and play somewhere else. But it takes two to tango."
The Browns said they expect Ryan Tucker to return as their right tackle. Other tackles on the roster include Kelly Butler, who started five games at right tackle when Tucker left for an emotional problem, and Nat Dorsey.
It's possible talks with the Giants could reopen. Other teams could gain interest, too, after evaluating their draft picks and veterans after upcoming minicamps.
The Browns might also want to wait for the full team minicamp in June before reassessing their asking price for Shaffer.
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Sorry. And I just reread what I wrote on the other thread. I wasn't trying to negative, but it didn't come out quite the way I intended.
heh, sometimes being the voice of reason/sanity sounds overly harsh, especially when everyone (including yourself at times) is still on a high. What you say over there sounds negative in a sense, but we all know that it is dead-on accurrate with how folks are. It can't be denied because we've all seen it before.
Maybe this will all turn out different though? All it will take is a few things to go right and your scenario doesn't happen 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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The Browns take a huge hit THIS year if he's traded..
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Correct. Unless the trade occurs on or after June 1, then the hit is split between this year and next.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Yea but it's wasted cap space anyway if we don't use it. A 27 year old starting LT should net us something we need worse. Amazing to me that this guy is ALREADY making noises about wanting out. See ya !
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Well in going on past dealings with players..Phil doesn' t waste too much time keeping players who want out..
So I see him moving him when the hit will be less expensive..
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Based on the upfront money and bonuses over the last year already paid, divided by the number of games played and it comes out to around a HALF MILLION per game. You would think he would be delighted to help us out doing ANYTHING this year.
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no, it's not wasted cap space if we don't use it. That's like saying the amount under your limit on a credit card is wasted money.
You also never know when you're going to need that money during the season for an emergency signing.
All of that aside... This is just all a part of the process. It happens every year with half a dozen players. If he ends up staying here, he will play and be the professional as that is what is in his best interest. If he is a cancer or trouble maker... the moment we wash our hands of him (or the moment we realize we can't get anything for him) that will be made known and he won't get squat for money on his next deal.
This is just the start of the process.
If a team jumps in and ponies up something nice, you can bet that Phil will say "we decided it was in the best interest of the Cleveland Browns and Kevin Shaffer to allow him to pursue his career elsewhere"... and we will take what we're paid and run. If we don't get something that we feel is more valuable than Kevin is as a RT or as a backup, then Shaffer will sit right here until the balance of value shifts. Of course, his agent will be working the background the whole time to shift our perception of the value balance in his favor... that's his job. Phil's job is to see through that and make sure we are getting the true best value.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Grossi is kind of an idiot though. I don't know how much stock I would put into anything he says.
OMG I agree with Tyler on something
I swear he's always 2 days behind on everything and then he takes stuff right from the board. The times I've stood by him at camp and listened to him talk to his camera man I can't believe how he dumb he is about who he's looking at on the field. I get the impression that he doesn't care very much about doing his job.
![[Linked Image from i98.photobucket.com]](http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/iambrown92/lama.gif) Peace, Love and Football
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Ammo,, wasn't Grossi the guy who before the season was over last year stated that Bill Cowher would be our coach in 2007..
Then in his Ask Tony column, told a guy that Cowher would never come to Cleveland,,
There is something wrong with Tony,,, not sure what, but he's been saying things lately without reason to say it...
Wierd I know, but it's true... Don't count on anything Grossi says.
Um, yeah. I never said Grossi was a football genius (I think he's a clown actually, he said the West Coast Offense would never work in a cold climate like Cleveland...yeah right, ask Philly, Denver and Green Bay about that one).
But like I said, Grossi spoke to Shaffer's agent and Shaffer's agent said it.
How can that NOT be considered true?
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I know what you mean about the credit but if we "don't use it" it's STILL wasted cap space no ? It doesn't roll forward to next year. It's like my 10 sick days at work. Use them or lose them because you can't bank them. There comes a time in the year they got to be burnt.
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I guess that's one way to look at bad money management IF there are no ramifications on future years, then using all of your available cap space is no big deal... BUT any time you are getting bumped up against the limit because of contracts or other things that will still be affecting you on future years, you're just begging for trouble. Lastly.... what players do we have ready to hit free agency in 2008 that we might want to re-sign/extend toward the end of this season if they do well? If we use it all up eating Shaffer's bonus money, we just removed a bunch of options from our plate.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I guess that's one way to look at bad money management
IF there are no ramifications on future years, then using all of your available cap space is no big deal... BUT any time you are getting bumped up against the limit because of contracts or other things that will still be affecting you on future years, you're just begging for trouble.
Lastly.... what players do we have ready to hit free agency in 2008 that we might want to re-sign/extend toward the end of this season if they do well? If we use it all up eating Shaffer's bonus money, we just removed a bunch of options from our plate.
Yup. Taking a $36 million contract off the books this season will only help us make a bigger splash in FA next year...and I know we'll wanna re-sign a couple people (Sean Jones).
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It's more like using up your available credit on a credit card to me. What happens if you have an emergency and need to buy something? You're screwed.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Just clicking.....I find it amusing that for the longest time a group of people have been complaining about how bad the line is, and now we are talking about trading guys. LMAO
Here is an idea. How about we go into camp with what we have and anybody else we pick up between now and then, and then work to keep the 9 best we have??
If you are going to trade somebody, how about Andrew Hoffman??
Well,I sort of figured "you" might find it funny.
But you see,some of understand we need upgrades on the DL too. There are still "needs" rather than "depth" to be addressed.
IF the Giants are the one in "great need" in this trade,and the one's seeking a trade,do you think it's funny to trade a "LT that grades out at a D" for tha "DE that grades a B"?
You see,right now we NEED upgrades on the DL far more than DEPTH at OL. I'm not for trading Shaffer nor am I against trading Shaffer
But what I see as reasonable,and not "funny" at all,is IF we can make a NECASSARY upgrade on the DL in exchange for DEPTH on the OL,I can see that as a "realistic possibility".
I don't see that as "all that amusing" but if you do? Party on Garth.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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If a team jumps in and ponies up something nice, you can bet that Phil will say "we decided it was in the best interest of the Cleveland Browns and Kevin Shaffer to allow him to pursue his career elsewhere"
Or we'll hear Rac say:
" Until Shaffer is no longer here he's on our roster and we'll coach him o.k?
Right now he's here and we'll do what we have to do to put the five best linemen out there, alright?"
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PPE, that might actually be a good reason to do something with Shaffer THIS year. If we have the cap room to take the signing bonus hit this season, then it is done and we save the incremental cap room taken up by his signing bonus going forward. At least, that's how I THINK it would work.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Amazing to me that this guy is ALREADY making noises about wanting out. See ya !
Well if this isn't proof positive that he 'knows he's outclassed by Thomas going into the competition" nothing does.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Just thinking out loud here, but wouldn't this tell us a little bit about how they beleive Bentley is progressing if something happens relatively soon. Bentley can play RG, which is the one position that is still not penciled in. McKinney, Shaffer, Tucker w/Shaffer at RT? I guess what I am getting at, is that if the FO is fairly confident that Bentley is going to make it back this yr, that would leave us this line pencilled in: LT-Thomas, LG-Steinbach, C-Fraley, RG-Bentley, RT-Tucker. with McKinnely able to back up all three interior positions and Butler and ? left to battle out for the RT back-up. Steinbach could play LT if pushed by injury. All I am trying to say is that it makes it alot easier for us to feel comfortable moving Shaffer IF Bentley makes it back. Therefore wouldn't it give us a little bit of a clue as to Bentley's recovery if we do move Shaffer soon? Maybe I am just trying to have some wishfull thinking? 
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
Go ARMY......Beat Navy!!!!!!
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Phil Savage: Good morning Kevin. I've been told by your agent that you're requesting a trade.
Kevin Shaffer: That's right, Phil. I'm a left tackle, and you just drafted a left tackle with the number three pick. I'm sure you're not going to bury Mr. Learner's investment on the bench, and I want a chance to play elsewhere.
PS: Ok... so you want us to trade you.
KS: Yes, that's right.
PS: You're aware that you were a part of the worst offensive line last year, correct?
KS: Well, it is a team game, and there were four other guys...
PS: Yeah(whateva)And you think you've got market value ?
KS: I've got experience as a starter in this league.
PS: And you think there's another team out there you could start for?
KS: Absolutely.
PS:Who? The Giants backed out..let me ask you.. How many sacks did you personally give up last year?
KS: (stammering) sacks?
PS:How bout blown assignments? How bout asking for help on plays?
HOW BOUT THOSE closeline chest arm grabs you use that kills huge plays?
How out just preparing to play until I work something out..and if I can't ..well I need some money to work on signing a FA next year..guess where it's coming from?
KS:..just looks bewildered..guess the odds of a trade are a 1000 to 1 huh?
PS: So you're saying I have a chance.....? (laughs loudly)
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 05/01/07 09:26 AM.
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True, if done before June 1 it would work like that, and you would in essence be buying space under next years cap in the amount of his salary plus whatever roster/workout bonuses he might have coming.... but you also need to look at the difference in value between what we get and what he offers us as a player.
Cutting him just ain't gonna happen unless he commits career suicide throwing tantrums to get out of here. He doesn't have the talent to buy him the grace to get over that kind of prima donna action.
As long as his perceived value as a player is greater than whatever it is we are being offered... or at least not close enough to make it 'worthwhile', he isn't going anywhere.
For him to be traded, someone is going to have to pony up something of decent value. If the cap savings next year is enough to make it worth it (he wasn't that bad though) then he might go much cheaper. As with anything, there is a shelf life... and the longer he sits untraded, the less his perceived value will be.
Either way, it's waaaaaaaay too early in the process to be saying things like "cut him" or "just trade for whatever you can get". Ya gotta make the most of what makes the most sense for the team, even if that means keeping him as a backup.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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That's my thinking too.
If you combine what we will save signing Quinn at #22 instead of a top 10 pick next year on a QB,and with what we'll save on next years cap by trading Shaffer THIS year,we just picked up BOO COO bucks on next years salary cap!
I guess a lot of it boils down to would we have enough cap space left this year to address possible emergencies that may arise if we eat Shaffers cap hit this year?
I mean,that frees up Shaffers portion of his pro rated bonuses AND his salary on next years cap. Which will put us in BETTER position instead of worse. The question is can we afford to do it this year? If so,we must always consider the future IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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dang it man.. we could have traded Shaffer for Randy Moss... hahaha... but all jokes aside.. I said it before.. I think RAC favors Tucker at RT anyway.. IMO.. he's a lot stronger than Shaffer, but I could just be making that up.. it just seems that way to me.. Shaffer should officially get the just shut up award... do whats best for the team and just move to another spot.. dont cry and want to be traded..
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Schaffer trade????????????
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