Foles is not a horrible player. Foles is an average player. Average is better than what we have had over the past decade at the QB position, but is it really something we want to give up significant compensation for?
I'm very interested to know what we have gotten out of any of our top 10 picks in any draft, with very few exceptions, since 1999 that would cause you to say that?
This year we have two picks outside the top 10. If we could get average or above QB play for either one of those picks, other than Joe Thomas, Alex Mack and Joe Haden, I can't think of any first round draft picks since 1999 where the return would be better.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Foles is not a horrible player. Foles is an average player. Average is better than what we have had over the past decade at the QB position, but is it really something we want to give up significant compensation for?
I'm very interested to know what we have gotten out of any of our top 10 picks in any draft, with very few exceptions, since 1999 that would cause you to say that?
This year we have two picks outside the top 10. If we could get average or above QB play for either one of those picks, other than Joe Thomas, Alex Mack and Joe Haden, I can't think of any first round draft picks since 1999 where the return would be better.
That's an awful reason ...because we suck at drafting ... to give up significant compensation for an average QB.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
Foles is not a horrible player. Foles is an average player. Average is better than what we have had over the past decade at the QB position, but is it really something we want to give up significant compensation for?
I'm very interested to know what we have gotten out of any of our top 10 picks in any draft, with very few exceptions, since 1999 that would cause you to say that?
So you believe average NFL QB play isn't worth a #12 or #19 pick in what appears to be a pretty weak draft class?
I'm simply asking because I don't see many studs in this draft class. I see a lot more question marks than answers in this class.
Let's use the #19 pick for example. What one player in this years draft do you feel would be left on the board at #19 that could do more to improve this team than having an average NFL QB would do?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I agree to disagree. Hell it doesn't matter. The Browns are not going to get Mariota anyway.
You know you get to point of frustration with the Browns.
I just want a quarterback that I can believe in. If Manziel could lead the team to victory I would be happy. I just want to win.
Just so sick of inept quarterback play.
After all these years; you know what they say: Even a blind squirrel can find a nut. You would think just by chance they could discover one guy.
It hurts when guys like Russell Wilson get found in the third round. And here we are with with first rounders: Couch, Quinn, Weeden, Manziel. Why is it that the Browns can not find a quarterback?
Then it gets stuck in your face when the Packers go from Farve to Rodgers. And the Colts go from Manning to Luck.
Every year Roethlisberger and Flacco take it to the Browns. Flacco 13-1 against us. Ben 18-2.
That's pathetic.
It is getting really hard to watch. Now we are looking at zero solution. Manziel and some passed around veteran FA. Or they resign Hoyer. Is Hoyer going to win consistently for years? When that blows up it's back to the draft fishing. Then it takes 2 to three years to even find out "if" you got a guy.
Hell I am running out of time.
At this point what is there to lose? The Browns have to roll the dice. Take a chance and go all in on somebody.
If Tampa takes Winston or Mariota then go to the Titans and make an offer for the other guy. Then let Manziel know you got to be the better guy to start.
I would rather do that than sit back and give the job to Manziel or watch some other guy play 500 ball.
Ill be honest, I haven't been doing this as long as some of you..
I've been a fan since I was 13, which was only 99.
But I've watched enough bad football in that 15 years, and seen enough rival teams win..
I have never seen a team I call my own with a championship. But even if the Cav, Michigan, Blue Jackets, and Indians all won a title the same year.. it wouldnt even come close to the feeling of the Browns winning a title.. Hell being competitive..
I have a Browns "Just One Before I Die" shirt.. and my roommate thought it was funny.. "only one?"
I explained to him.. its to the point, that if the Browns caught fire for one year.. and went all the way and won a Super Bowl.. and then sucked (again) right away.. I wouldnt care..
I just want that one.. I need that one..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
not sure if the discussion is about average stats...or average QB play.
I like Foles, I only saw him once maybe twice in college thought he was good, I remember being surprised how much he ran.
I was pretty surprised at his production with the Eagles.
I am confused, why does anyone thing Foles is on the market.
Sanchez is a FA right? Barclay has looked a lot less valuable than I thought he would.
I can see part of the mega draft trade to move up for Mariota. I can see that are we even involved with that? If teams in the top 5 even 10 don't want him and drop him...Eagles want him and are willing to pay.
I've been surprised before but I don't see it. Unless mariota pulls a Bridgwater so he drops to the Eagles?
Foles and Glennon - Foles has more mobility. Glennon when he is in one of his streaks he is amazing of course he has the other kind of streaks. Probably for the mobility I would want Foles.
We'll see - we just might get surprised. jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
We have pretty much agreed in the past. You and I were the first two guys all over Luck..........when he was a freshman. Yeah, I remember that.
I just don't see it w/Mariotta, bro. No hard feelings. We don't have to agree. Hell, you could be right. I could be wrong. No big deal. Nothing personal, man...........just putting out my two cents.
Early on in the draft, Beckham Jr. was my top WR. I thought we might be able to get him in the second because a lot of reports had him rated low. Loved the guy. I backed off after I saw him get a first round grade, but I always thought he was way better than Watkins, and I live in SC and saw Watkins quite a bit. The other guy I liked was Jordan Matthews. Was hoping for him in the second after Gordon was suspended.
But yeah.........can you imagine that we actually could have had Teddy, Beckham Jr, and Buffalo's first round pick if Farmer would have played it right?
Man, that is freaking incredible!
And I know some wise ass will come on here and say that hindsight is 20/20 as if it is some revolutionary comment...LOL......but, I know that myself, and others, would have been all over those picks if they were available.
And I know some wise ass will come on here and say that hindsight is 20/20 as if it is some revolutionary comment...LOL......but, I know that myself, and others, would have been all over those picks if they were available.
I must be misunderstanding. are you saying you would have drafted Beckham Jr and Bridgewater together in the first round?
You (rightly) would have taken Bridgewater with the first first round pick. Meaning no OBJ.
I think everyone on this board would say that they would take OBJ, Bridgewater, and Buffalo's #1 over what we actually did. If they don't they need to get their head checked.
Everyone can draft better a year after the draft. It is a time honored tradition.
Beckham moved up from late first/early second to mid first after the combine. The Giants had some special insight as Eli threw to him during the off season. The Giants did their homework and drafted him at 12, which raised eyes at the time.
Good choice. The Browns would have been laughed at if they took him at 9, which turned into 8, because we were concerned Minny would take him at 8.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
I agree we need a qb no doubt. Since the merger in 1970 we've only had 2 good to very good qb's BK Brian Sipe and maybe Bill Nelson the last 2 years he was here.
When I look at our biggest rival Pitts. I also notice that even though they went to 8 SB's the've only had 2 good qb's Bradshaw and big Ben. Those 2 have led them to 7 of the 8 SB's; the other was Neil O' Donahue. Pitts. has also had a tough time getting good qb's. Kordell Stewart, Mark Malone, Bubby Brister, Joe Gilliam come to mind as qb's who were not good. Even with that group Pitts. was still competitive and in playoffs most of the time.
What I am trying to say is yes we need a very good qb to be consistent contenders but if we can't get one this year don't sell the farm build up the supporting cast so when we do finally get one we have the foundation in place to be really good for a long time. JMO
Agree with you Homedawg. We can't invest the kitchen sink in a QB quest cause truly its the hardest position to evaluate in their transition from College to NFL.
Continuity, Steelers stayed competitive with Continuity and specifically in their Defense which as we know if you wish to go far without that elite QB you need a top 3 D and a good rushing attack.
Wolf had said it best in his book - The Packer Way. Discussing the build up to a championship team out of the mire they were in as a team.
He stated you want to get into the playoffs you need a good QB. You want to win a championship you need a Great QB. Outside of that rare #1 D with a complimentary run game - it pretty much has been that formula.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
"we can't give up the kitchen sink for a uncertain elite QB." =======================================================
Is there such a thing as a certain elite quarterback?
Even the guys taken number on in the draft have had question marks.
At some point if you are a GM you have to trust yourself. If you don't win you will get fired anyway.
And as stated the way to win consistently is with a ten plus year solution at quarterback.
The Seahawks went all in with Wilson at quarterback even though they invested heavily in Flynn.
When do you give up the kitchen sink?
What do the Browns have to lose? Another 5,6,7,8,9 win season.
The Browns have FA money. But that will not buy them a quarterback. It can help round out the team. But no team gives up a great quarterback.
We have failed many times with first round players. So really what is there to lose?
If the Browns really like Mariota or Winston and the Titans are open to trade why not go after one of them?
Look it would be great "if" Manziel could do something but can you really count on that?
Russell Wilson screams professionalism and work ethic. Does Manziel?
So we go BPA with the two first rounders. Then take a flyer later on a quarterback. What are the odds? Hell, we went after Couch, Quinn, Weeden and Manziel in the first round.
So now are you suppose be gun shy?
We don't get quarterback to lead this team and the rut the Browns are stuck in will continue.
Luck was as close as it gets for a number of reasons.
He played four years. He played in an offense that let him display pro type skills.
He checked the box in size and speed.
There was not one aspect of the position that he did not do well. Accuracy check. You have to be accurate.
His character and work ethic was never in question.
I was in 11th grade when the Browns won the championship in 1964.
Andrew Luck was the best college/professional prospect I have ever seen. And even now I go out of way to watch him play. I called him the best on this Board when he was a freshman.
Guys like him do not come along very often.
But that should not make a team go into shell about going all in on some quarterback prospect.
I am very aware that people doubt Mariota. And I understand their reasoning.
At the same time I believe he will become a great player in the NFL.
I'm not going to kick anyone who swears by a prospect down. I remember discarding guys opinions who had pimped Big Ben, I thought it was a local thing. Now I consider it the dumbest NONE move we ever made in the draft.
I didn't stick to my guns with Rodgers. As in the beginning QB debate between Smith and Rodgers I championed him. Then all of a sudden he started dropping way past our #3 pick...out of the top 10 on every mock draft. I started pimping Merriman the last month or so.
I was fooled by the enthusiasm of Diam regarding BQ thought we finally made the right move. That didn't work out well.
But there are certain QBs you just know he is the guy and will be elite. For me they have to be special in their Accuracy and I don't mean Stat from College I mean accuracy. Luck & Bradford had that type of accuracy so did Rodgers why I had pimped him early in the 05 draft. Actually I did think Bridgewater was special accurate...I just got confused by that Pro Day. That was the weirdest thing I ever saw.
Not on the band wagon of Mariota for several reasons. 1. I don't think we will be looking to sign a QB early (12-19) This regime made an investment early last year and I know the media is doing their best to depict him as a done hot dog as in stick a fork in him. But I think our plan was always to sit him 2014 and start to let him really compete 2015.
Would that prevent us from investing in a Mid-late round pick or a vet to challenge the starting position? I don't think so but to move up a little to get him. I don't think so.
2. 2 Things will happen with Mariota, he will start to prove himself more n more as the elite QB you think he is, in that case we just won't have a shot at getting him. Second would be he starts proving more n more the risk and has him dropping. IN that case see #1.
3. I just don't see that special accuracy.
I just think this year we take two special players in the first LOS hard tough football players that will give some impact early. JM will be better groomed (if he isn't all in mentally void this statement) If a Hoyer or another FA vet QB beats him out in the beginning so be it but he will be groomed this year to start, not scout QB.
Next year might turn out to be a great draft class for QB. We'll see how that turns out.
Despite the negatives being put out there...I got a feeling we are not close to giving up on JM. 2016 could be a different story.
I think we will have enough continuity to make our team considerably better despite the supposed toughest schedule.
Injuries will dictate a lot. QB wise.
If you are looking to draft one high maybe start looking at 2016 draft. Who knows what Mid round guy we might take and he ends up blossoming. Could we be so lucky to get a Montana, Brady or a Wilson?
jmho the title of this thread "IN 2015" I don't really see a drafted QB helping us in 2015 including Mariota.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Even though Farmer was quoted as liking Mariota last year I agree that the Browns will make no move to get him.
Disagree about accuracy. His numbers back it up. Just watching him throw. His release and accuracy is consistent.
The Browns will stick with Manziel and some hack they bring in to "compete".
Manziel made a fool of himself this year. But like Weeden he will get his chance. What he does with that opportunity remains to be seen.
Manziel, his backup, or any quarterback drafted will not help the Browns win a championship next year or any time soon.
It will take a quarterback with true potential to lead a team along with continuity within the organization over a three to four year period. See Luck and the Colts.
The Browns are not on that track.
Until they find a real quarterback they will remain where they are right now.
Just would like to add...we can't give up the kitchen sink for a uncertain elite QB.
But we have to keep investing...early, mid round anywhere, we have to until we get THE GUY.
jmho
I'd give up the kitchen sink for an uncertainty so long as I liked him enough. You can't always get a sure thing, sometimes you have to gamble. Hell, I'd draft a QB every year as soon as we have serious doubts about the guy on our roster. Your point is dead on though.
Everyone wants to build up depth and bolster other positions. Without a QB, it DOES. NOT. MATTER. PFF has us as a Top 10 roster in football, 5 holes away from contending for a SB. We have had 8 different players make the Pro Bowl over the last 2 years. None of that matters... we have all that elite "depth" and we haven't even had a winning record since 2007 because for how close we are everywhere else, it means nothing if QB is one of our gaping holes.
Every single year, we should be pouring assets into QB until we find one. Our coaching staff doesn't like Johnny? Draft another. They don't want to start Hoyer? Bring in someone else. It doesn't matter if we "need" a WR. Russell Wilson's WRs are nothing. Brady's are scraps minus Gronk.
We've had so many bad picks and busts, I don't even care about giving up extra assets. If Mariota is our guy, make it happen. Everyone gives the Rams props for fleecing the Redskins in the RGIII trade because he didn't work out but you know what? For all those picks and the good players they got, they suck too. Bradford can't stay healthy and for all those picks, they didn't get a QB.
Our draft needs aren't WR/ILB/DT/RT, they're QB/QB/QB/QB because until we get a great one, nothing else is a higher priority. We need to throw assets at it until we FINALLY get it right.
Haslem is giving Johnny notice ... Straighten up or get out ... JMHO
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
And I know some wise ass will come on here and say that hindsight is 20/20 as if it is some revolutionary comment...LOL......but, I know that myself, and others, would have been all over those picks if they were available.
I must be misunderstanding. are you saying you would have drafted Beckham Jr and Bridgewater together in the first round?
I don't understand your question. Please elaborate.
You know Vers. The salt in wound is we could have walked away from this last draft with both Bridgewater and Watkins or Beckham.
I watched Finding Giants and they were all over Beckham. Who I really liked in addition to Watkins.
Then you read that Bridgewater was on the radar and if they didn't make the trade for Gilbert; Farmer says Watkins was the pick.
If the Browns were going into 2015 with Bridgewater and Watkins or Beckham going into their second year together: Man I would be crazy excited.
But no, here we are again.
We could have had Watkins, Beckham, an extra third round pick, and Jimmy Garoppolo. I cry and then throw up just thinking about it. Chances are we would have locked down Shanny for several seasons with a draft like that. I mean who would not want to be the OC of that much talent.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
Carr is much better than Bridgewater, but of course we could have had our choice. Now I see mocks and fans talking about us taking a cornerback early, too. Please shoot me. Manziel and Gilbert could still turn things around. but right now, Farmer's draft looks like the kind that haunts the team for 10 years. I think the front office should just draft front seven types until they figure out how to do their jobs. Those picks are safest. They obviously don't know how to spot red flags in an interview. We have two first rounders (again) and I am terrified at what Farmer might do with ten.
