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It works both ways, Swish. Staying at three and taking TRich wasn't so bright. Drafting Weeds at 22 wasn't so bright. Moving up for Manziel wasn't so bright.
With that said..........I have to say this: Winston impressed me quite a bit at the Combine. His interview w/Mooch was unreal. What a bright guy.
Also, I heard he was a 4.0 student, so that answers that question.
He was personable. He threw well. I thought he did very well for himself.
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Winston is the #1 pick for sure. It's not if the Buccaneers pick him, they are going to pick him.
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Is he worth 2 #1's this year, a #2 this year, and next years #1? Because that's what I think it would take - heck , that might not even get him.
I'm at the point where I'd consider it very seriously.
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Winston is the #1 pick for sure. It's not if the Buccaneers pick him, they are going to pick him.
what if they feel Glennon is the future? I mean Lovie knows defense. QB's, not so much.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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If Glennon was the future he wouldn't have gotten benched twice for Josh McCown in a season where the team won two games.
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If Glennon was the future he wouldn't have gotten benched twice for Josh McCown in a season where the team won two games. true, but posters on this board were advocating they would be willing to trade for him to start here. so.....clearly some people feel he has value. why not possibly the coach?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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If Glennon was the future he wouldn't have gotten benched twice for Josh McCown in a season where the team won two games. true, but posters on this board were advocating they would be willing to trade for him to start here. so.....clearly some people feel he has value. why not possibly the coach? See the post you just quoted. People here like Glennon because we have nothing.
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If Glennon was the future he wouldn't have gotten benched twice for Josh McCown in a season where the team won two games. true, but posters on this board were advocating they would be willing to trade for him to start here. so.....clearly some people feel he has value. why not possibly the coach? See the post you just quoted. People here like Glennon because we have nothing. good point.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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j/c....
1. Can't see anyone claiming Winston is a mental idiot with an IQ of 74...  Thats just silly.
2. Rape??? If true it will happen again. I'm not quite sure.
Immature. Man these guys are spoiled and immature wonder if that comes with the Fame & Glory of a freshman QB winning the Heisman. 2 for 2 so far!
3. Character? tough call who will mature and who won't.
Vers...Gilbert and Ward I didn't know they had pre-draft baggage with them?
I think drug issues (marijuana) these guys should be avoided. Not personal but it seems they just can't resist and think they can beat the test.
I wish they would improve their PED testing in similar fashion.
Winston, will not be a Brown for two reasons.
1. He's going overall #1 in the 2015 draft.
2. We won't have enough to move up to #1 and Tampa I'm sure ain't selling.
jmho unless TB feels that glennon is worth the risk of handing over the starting spot this season. then that changes a lot. Honestly, i think we need to just sit at 12/19, and if winston falls, we grab it. Tab, i'm tired of "winning" the draft with picks every year, and these guys end up being bums come the regular season. there has to be a point where we take the BPA at whatever slot we are picking at in the 1st round. I have to agree. It's time to get some play maker for THIS season.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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j/c....
1. Can't see anyone claiming Winston is a mental idiot with an IQ of 74... Thats just silly.
2. Rape??? If true it will happen again. I'm not quite sure.
Immature. Man these guys are spoiled and immature wonder if that comes with the Fame & Glory of a freshman QB winning the Heisman. 2 for 2 so far!
3. Character? tough call who will mature and who won't.
Vers...Gilbert and Ward I didn't know they had pre-draft baggage with them?
I think drug issues (marijuana) these guys should be avoided. Not personal but it seems they just can't resist and think they can beat the test.
I wish they would improve their PED testing in similar fashion.
Winston, will not be a Brown for two reasons.
1. He's going overall #1 in the 2015 draft.
2. We won't have enough to move up to #1 and Tampa I'm sure ain't selling.
jmho unless TB feels that glennon is worth the risk of handing over the starting spot this season. then that changes a lot. Honestly, i think we need to just sit at 12/19, and if winston falls, we grab it. Tab, i'm tired of "winning" the draft with picks every year, and these guys end up being bums come the regular season. there has to be a point where we take the BPA at whatever slot we are picking at in the 1st round. I have to agree. It's time to get some play maker for THIS season. I have been saying this for some time (although I have only been here a week.) We need 1) better starters, or 2) reliable back ups, or 3) understudies for aging starters at nearly every position on the field. For the first 4 picks (3 rounds) we would be best served to take the BPA regardless of position and use the later picks to draft for needs.
1. #GMstrong
2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb
3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa
4. ClemenZa #1
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Is he worth 2 #1's this year, a #2 this year, and next years #1? Because that's what I think it would take - heck , that might not even get him.
I'm at the point where I'd consider it very seriously. Not for nothing,but the last time someone proposed we give up the ship to move up for a QB was when RGIII was coming out. Not saying that the two are likely to suffer the same fate, but for me, giving up that much is dangerous. I'm trying to think back to the last time giving up that much actually worked out for the team that gave it up. Washington, NOPE. New Orleans, NOPE. Minnesota, NOPE. I recognize that we have to look at each situation individually, but the track record of such moves isn't impressive..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Glennon at the best is Tampa's version of Hoyer "BRIDGE" QB so they don't have the URGENCY to start Winston too soon. But odds are Winston being in a Pro style system and is Football intelligent. I think he will WIN OUTRIGHT the starting QB position for game 1.
Our drafts always get graded with a B+ or little higher little lower. I hear you. We have a solid foundation better than anything before so that a NEW Regime can Build on. It was pretty solid for the Banner/Lombardi/Chud - but that lasted 1 season. This is Haslam's one Reboot (any more soon is just an annoying Owner) We got that solid foundation to build on. Everything is point to us having our HC for continuity. Outside of the Farmer 1st round stuff he added solid pieces.
We absolutely need that Franchise QB. It could be Manziel we'll see what the new Manziel looks like - Hope they have a gym in the Rehab center so he can Run and maybe put on a little weight (mostly in the legs not BQ gym rat stuff).
But we cannot put all the eggs in that basket. If we fall in love with a QB in this draft early or middle rounds - Please go get him! If middle rounds he will not be expected to start right away so we will get a good look at JM. If early, its an all out QB competition that JM should have a head start on - he had to learn "SOMETHING?" last season.
I don't care if we use two First round picks in to drafts for QB. I could care less about perception from the media/bozos. I want us to get that "THE GUY" QB once and for all!
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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If Winston falls to twelve the risk of him being an idiot (off the field) are negated by his drop in the draft. I would say if he falls in the draft then the risk of him being an idiot is more confirmed than negated. I'm torn on Winston. He is clearly the most talented QB in the draft.. I see the Browns taking him and then he turns into a head case... or I see us leaving him there for the Texans to take him and he turns into a stud... both are possible.
yebat' Putin
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If he fell to 12 we would have to take him simply because he is a talent and we need a qb. We have no choice in this situation.
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I think if either of the top 2 QBs fall to 5 we'll be trying like crazy to jump into the 5 spot ahead of the Jets to select either of them whether that's Winston or Mariota who knows but as of right now that looks like it could be Mariota.
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My guess is that the Titans will be fielding many offers from teams trying to move up.
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Doesn't worry me at all. The Bucs are going to take Winston no matter what.
I'm confused how many here are so willing to keep Josh Gordon and give him a 4th chance while they won't even look at Winston. LOL Typical.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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Doesn't worry me at all. The Bucs are going to take Winston no matter what.
I'm confused how many here are so willing to keep Josh Gordon and give him a 4th chance while they won't even look at Winston. LOL Typical. I hope so, and I hope another team takes Marcus so we have no choice in getting either of those and force us to draft something else and pickup a Qb in the later rounds. I think some people are soft towards Josh because we've witnessed the type of player he can be and it would make us sick to see, and *if*, him turn things around and then become a top WR for another team. Not saying that's why we're keeping him, but no use releasing him now anyway, he should go to a corner that is out of sight and mind from the coaching staff until he's close to being reinstated, then worry about what to do with the kid. It's a delicate situation, we are sick of all his messups!
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I'm confused how many here are so willing to keep Josh Gordon and give him a 4th chance while they won't even look at Winston. LOL Typical. Would any of those people take Gordon now with a 2nd round pick knowing what we know? I seriously doubt it. Gordon is on the roster, he's not costing us anything while he's suspended, there is no opportunity lost in keeping him. The opportunity cost in drafting Winston, if he turns out to be a total knucklehead, is that we could have drafted some other very talented player(s) with what we give up.
yebat' Putin
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Doesn't worry me at all. The Bucs are going to take Winston no matter what.
I'm confused how many here are so willing to keep Josh Gordon and give him a 4th chance while they won't even look at Winston. LOL Typical. I believe both Gordon and to some extent Manziel are precisely why people are so jaded against Winston. They look at how the examples of players with potential character issues have transitioned here. Not a good track record whether that be because of the environment in Berea, the lack of experience within the organization or any number of reasons, the results have not been good. I also feel fans hang onto the "Well we might, maybe later can, or someday possibly will" get something out of the cancer known as Gordon, rather than look at the possible infectious nature and precedent being set by continuing to have hiom associated with this team. When you preach accountability to your players then show you as an organization have no teeth behind the message, this could be far more damaging than some perceived value at a future time.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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It would take me about two seconds to turn in the card for him. Now, that said, would I do it with a lump in my throat? Absolutely. I think the Browns would take him too. We're not going anywhere without a QB and outside of Winston/Mariota, they're super shaky prospects.
That said, Winston is going #1 and the Bucs are going to be flat out unwilling to trade the pick so as far as I'm concerned, the draft starts with Tennessee and Winston off the board.
We're... we're good?
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When you preach accountability to your players then show you as an organization have no teeth behind the message, this could be far more damaging than some perceived value at a future time. Hmmmmm........
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When you preach accountability to your players then show you as an organization have no teeth behind the message, this could be far more damaging than some perceived value at a future time. I'm curious how some people would define "accountability"... what is the correct level of accountability for an indiscretion? fine or suspend him? a 2nd indiscretion? cut him? Is a 1 game benching accountability? Is not playing him accountability? Is fining him accountability? Should you cut him and then slap his mom in the face when she comes to pick him up? I mean really, what level of accountability should we have?
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I usually don't post these sort of things but I actually believe and trust in Mayock's opinions and assessments. Mayock on Jameis Winston: 'He scares me' Jameis Winston's NFL Scouting Combine performance was lauded by NFL Media analyst Mike Mayock, but Mayock said Tuesday he's still unsure about taking Winston with the first overall pick in the draft.
NFL Scouting Combine
Participants | Results | Top performers
Combine coverage:
Standouts: Fri. | Sat. | Sun. | Mon.
Winners/losers: Fri. | Sat. | Sun. | Mon.
Combine veterans recall crazy old days
Prospect-pro matches based on size
Path to the Draft: Tracking 7 prospects
Video:
Mayock's 2015 combine takeaways
Mooch puts Winston to the test
Confessionals: Scoop on prospects
Photos:
Best of 2015 combine | Portrait sesssion
The reason, which has nothing to do with the combine, should surprise no one.
Mayock was on ESPN Radio's "Mike and Mike Show," and was asked what he would do with the first pick if he were making decisions for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers: take Winston, take Oregon quarterback Marcus Mariota or trade the pick.
"I don't know yet," Mayock said. "I take (Winston) No. 1 from a talent perspective. I'm all over it from a talent perspective, but I would have to do more homework off the field because, right now, he scares me. He was the face of Florida State football, and he continued to make bad decisions off the field."
Winston -- whose Pro Day is March 31 -- threw for 3,907 yards and 25 TDs during the 2014 season. But he also tossed 18 interceptions, tied for second-most in the nation, and that also gives Mayock pause.
"I think Jameis throws way too many interceptions," Mayock said on the show. "Obviously, he has the ability to close games. ... He was at his best when the best was needed and I give him credit for that. But he threw (a combined) seven interceptions vs. Louisville and Florida, and it could have been 14 if the other team could catch the ball. He throws the ball up for grabs, in my opinion, way too often. That's my big issue with him on the field."
Mayock said the off-field issues are a separate point.
"I talked to some psychologists in Indy that worked for teams," he said. "How much pressure does it put on a psychologist when the football guys are all going, 'Hey, we're good with him. Just bless him and let's go.' So, to me, that's the bigger issue: Do you believe this kid won't be Johnny Manziel, he won't be JaMarcus Russell? You got to believe in the kid first before you believe in the football."
As for Mariota, Mayock reiterated a point he made in a teleconference before the combine: Mariota hasn't run anything close to an NFL offense.
"He's the classic case of 'OK, all these individual components work. How much do we believe that he can transition into the role of NFL pocket passer?'" Mayock said. "Since there's very minimal proof of it on tape, it's a leap of faith. And I think most people are going to take that leap because the kid is so solid, so smart and so hardworking, they believe he'll be able to do it.
"My concern, again, is that most of that pocket awareness feel is innate. I think you're born with it or you're not. So, it's a little bit of a projection. I love the kid, and I think both of them will certainly be gone in the first six picks and probably in the first two."
The Tennessee Titans have the second pick, and their faith or lack thereof in quarterback Zach Mettenberger -- who was drafted in the sixth round last year -- likely steers the decision.
Mayock touted Mariota's intangibles as a big plus.
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I read that earlier and thought, if Mayock was the GM of a team that needed a QB, he'd take him or face sure termination if the next season ended badly.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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DC, I hear what you are saying and I know you were off of the board when Haslam made the comments about accountability in regards to Manziel, Gilbert, and Gordon, so I get why you might be a bit off track, but man, he is not living up to his word.
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I think Mayock made three very good points.
1. Winston's off the field issues make you hesitate especially after the failures of Russel and Manziel.
2. Winston does throw too many picks.
3. Mariotta has not shown proof that he can make the throws, reads, and decisions as an NFL QB.
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Sports headline from theonion.com: 'Jameis Winston Doesn’t Rule Out Playing Baseball In Prison' -Very funny! 
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Crazy things happen at the NFL draft.
With that being said it would be highly unlikely that Winston doesn't go to the Bucs.
Winston is in their backyard. They have every opportunity to check him out thoroughly pertaining to his personal background.
He fits exactly what Lovie Smith likes as far as a pocket passer.
Winston has the talent to play quarterback in the NFL.
I don't believe he will be in the discussion for the Browns.
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Unless Winston has some sort of major issue with the law or some crazy injury, he is going in the top two at the very least. And most likely the top #1.
If he has major problems with the law, and it is clear that he is guilty, he is undraftable.
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I'm curious how some people would define "accountability"... what is the correct level of accountability for an indiscretion? fine or suspend him? a 2nd indiscretion? cut him? Is a 1 game benching accountability? Is not playing him accountability? Is fining him accountability? Should you cut him and then slap his mom in the face when she comes to pick him up? I mean really, what level of accountability should we have? I believe there is a big difference in "an indiscretion" and "consistent, repeated indiscretions". Gordon has shown time and time again that he has no respect for the rules of the NFL, no respect for his team or his team mates. He has been a distraction and been given opportunity after opportunity. At some point you have to make the statement that your team will not tolerate this type of behavior or have such a person associated with their team. At some point, the team has to be more important than the individual. And people can rationalize all they wish, but as long as the Browns hold the rights to Josh Gordon, he is a Brown.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I think they are making the statement with keeping him. If they turned him loose, then they would be telling everyone, that it is okay to keep screwing up, because then the Browns will release you and you will be free to sign with anyone you like. This way they can keep him forever and ruin any chance he has at comming back and playing with anyone. You want to be a knuklehead? Fine don't play here or anywhere.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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