DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns reach out to Brian Hoyer's camp about extension

I apologize if this has been addressed already (I haven't been keeping up with most of the threads lately with the new job).

What type/flavor of system will we be running on offense (do we even know)? Is it going to be very different from Shanny's?

If we were sticking with the same system, I'd say Hoyer is probably the best FA option, and I say that not as a ringing endorsement of Hoyer.

Just like with Cameron, the system that we want to run, and what/how much our QB has to do, should really drive our decision with so few realistic options.

Basically we are going to continue with being a primary zone team but there will be a bit more inline blocking. WE are going to be using west coast terminology but it is likely to be a bit more vertical based offense. I expect us to be a very run based offense that really focuses in on the mid to deep areas of the field to open it up for the run game. Will be using more 5 and 7 i suspect.

This has to be the biggest pile of horse crap i have heard in awhile. why would someone in in rehab in be on IR 8 freaking months later. exceeded expectations on his length of stay lol. I thinkthe browns would like to keep him in rehab and out of trouble until mini camp and ota.

Personally, I am absolutely thrilled he is still in rehab. I was afraid 2 weeks later he would be out saying he is good and then we are back in the same path we were to start with. I am also pretty damn sure the browns are thrilled with their QBs decision to get help. this was needed.

AS for Hoyer, Farmer doesnt like him and he wont be back.

There is no hope presently when it comes to QB. Not RIGHT NOW.

The biggest hope we have would be to somehow get one of the 2 golden boys in this draft AND hope he worked out for us. And what are the odds of that happening?

We MIGHT have better chances trading for a guy, but I don't want to do that. I want to build up everywhere else w/ our picks & wait until the right guy arrives in the draft.

And in free agency there is no difference maker either.

That's why, I am all for re-signing Hoyer. Not saying he didn't regress last season. Just think that keeping him around will give us somewhat of an advantage from a chemistry & continuity standpoint. And the O-Line and Receiver situation will end up being considerably improved for him, right? RIGHT? Please say, "right"!

Somewhere on here I read that Hoyer wanted to speak with Farmer about the texting thing. I took that to mean he wanted to find out if he was the subject of those texts....

As for speaking to other teams, he's not allowed yet.

Technically.....

Well, shows you how much I know about his situation. I was under the assumption he was a free agent and had a green to visit and talk to other teams as McCown is/was able to.

Thank you (and others) for the correction!

I'm curious as to how strong of a relationship Hoyer and Pettine have. So far this off season it appears that Pettine is amassing more... 'power' so to speak. It sounded like it was his call to let Shanny out of his contract... He's hired HIS OC and assistants... his meeting with Farmer appears to be one where Pet says to Farmer "I'm Captain of this ship"...

I just can't imagine Pettine NOT wanting to retain Hoyer. The team plays for him and even if we only get a near .500 season out of him next year, Hoyer is the only QB around right now that provides stability. Not bringing in another vet, and certainly not handing Manziel the job and "hoping".

In regards to having a meeting with Farmer and addressing the issue about the texts... I think determining how up front and honest he is about their content is going to go along way in terms of if he'll resign for any period of time. And I think he will so long as he doesn't get the sense he's getting jerked around.

I know some of you guys are ready to move on, but I'm sticking to my stance that Hoyer and the Browns need each other more than most people realize (at least for one more season).

I just don't believe it makes much difference. While the team won with Hoyer, outside of a couple of games, those wins didn't lay on the shoulder of Hoyer. He wasn't terrible for part of the year, but for the most part he was mediocre at best.

I think it's 6 of one and half a dozen of another in replacing him. There aren't really better options, but I don't think a lot of the options are worse either. I don't see anything in either direction as a positive or a negative.

The only thing I take issue with is people claiming that keeping Hoyer is a stability issue. If he were actually being seen as the long term solution at QB that may be true. But in his case, it's simply prolonging a temporary solution. Nothing about that screams stability.

Say what you will Farmer/Pettine are going with JFF as their starter. They decided last year drafting Johnny. If Johnny doesn't make the grade, Farmer and/or Pettine are gone. If Johnny falls flat, how can you trust Farmer as talent evaluator or Pettine as a coach? Pettine got a second chance hiring a new OC andQC.

All this talk looking for a new starting QB is a mute point. Browns are looking for a backup. It is why Josh McCown and Brian Hoyer are testing the waters for a starting role.

What? LMAO............it didn't sound like that at all.

Yeah ^

Call it scheme or get into that debate, but it was lethal when Hoyer went play action and the run game was alive. If he could have hit open people in stride deep, he'd have easily cashed in on more TDs. Mack went down, run game went down - Hoyer's responsibilities/weight on his shoulders grew which resulted in him showcasing what he really is. An average QB, suitable likely best for a backup role.

JMO

All of this is true. Also true is the reality that there might be no one else better available. Average and able to win when the surrounding team is decent and healthy is not something to just dismiss. The league is lousy with guys who are average and will find ways to lose when the surrounding team is decent and healthy.

Hoyer is a backup. Period. He will never ever lead a team to the promised land. And if we resign him and start him again this year, then that puts us yet another year behind in the search. Then NEXT year we draft a QB and have to go through the rookie growing pains. Putting off actually trying to win until the following year.... and by that time we'll have yet another GM and HC and those guys will want to clean house and bring in their own QB.....

We need to try to find a long term answer RIGHT NOW. Trade for one, draft one, better yet DO BOTH. But going backward to a guy that is NOT the answer just puts off finding one that much longer.

And signing MCCown is no solution either. I just read the Browns are pursuing him heavily. Because he's buddies with our new OC, "who coached him in 2007 in Oakland when he was quarterbacks coach. McCown went 2-7 as a starter that year, with nine touchdowns and 10 interceptions. But the two hit it off and would like to work together again."

What kind of crap is that? They like each other so we sign him? He went 2-7 so he REALLY knows the new offense.... This is lining up to be a fricking horror show of a season. Johnny will start, get hurt after a couple quarters and it will be the McCown show the rest of the way. Oh Boy! Can't wait. Pathetic.

That is great in theory, but who are they going to get? No one is available. The best guy that might be available is Jay Cutler. If the top two teams want to draft QBs, there is nothing we can do.

You can sign Hoyer if you are willing to keep passes from 5 yard to 15 yards with a ball control offense. He is very good in that range. You also need to let him play at a faster pace because he does much better when he is in a rhythm.

I'd give Hoyer 20 plays and tell him to take control of the huddle. Then leave him in hurry up all game long.

Hoyer was among the best in the league at throwing the deep ball.

Brian Hoyer, passes by yards thrown in the air.

Yes!

Let all pray on that!

(Let me state, for the record, I was a Carr guy, and was never on-board for drafting Manziel.) When JF played last season, he looked bad. But the sample size is simply too small to rule him out as the long-term answer. The 2015 draft class is thin at QB and the best options will be gone before our first pick. A trade for a viable long-term answer is unlikely at best. There are no realistic long-term options available as FA.

We have to see what we have in Manziel. We can argue forever over the short-term options but none of them will suddenly materialize into the long-term answer. Manziel, or someone not yet available, will be that answer. I simply don't care whether the short-term is Hoyer, or McCown, or Sanchez, or Culter, or Glennon.... Whoever it will be, will be a stop-gap til either Manziel proves out or we acquire someone next year or beyond. We, the fans, have to simply accept that the QB question will remain unanswered til that happens.

I'm sorry, I don't see the "hang-time" stat?

You know - at this time "RIGHT NOW" of every season has there ever been HOPE? I really can't think of any.

You mean like after making the playoffs and blowing a 40 pt lead to pitt thinking man we get a couple OL and we can beat anyone in the NFL. Then we blow pick after pick and fire Bruce.

How bout 10 win team. Man all we have to do is sure up the right side of the line and this team can beat anyone. Tucker gets hurt and DA's initials really start to carry a different meaning.

Mangini's win streak we had the next genius ( i had no confidence but most did on this one) and we got a gimmicky power monger that didnt play well with others.

Got Holmgren to run the team, now we are going somewhere and he hires a first time HC that wants to call his own plays and he wasnt very good at callinghis own plays.

So yea this time of year we have often been confident. I think now we have a little optimism but everyone is expecting same old browns that finished the season in a funk.

general reply...

I'll never understand why most of you are dumping on Hoyer. Everyone has him judged and written off.

It was basically his rookie year. He's got 16 games. One year with some of his receivers.

Coming off his knee injury, first year offense, and tons of injuries on the team.

Now that is not to say that Hoyer didn't make mistakes, cause he did, but why the 'backup' label? Why the 'we have seen his ceiling'?

He deserves neither of those. Not at this point imo.

We keep plugging in qb's because we don't like the results, and look at our records. Its insane.

Maybe we should actually give someone a chance and stick with them a few years...maybe we'll get some different results.

Lets face it, these are complicated offenses that require the qb and receivers to see the same things and react. That doesn't come overnight.

LOL He did have some punt like throws.

Because he was horrible for a good part of the 2014 season.



This might be the biggest stretch I've seen. Hoyer is 29, 2014 was his sixth season in the NFL. He might not have playing time experience, but he definitely should know how to prepare for an NFL game.

Actual rookie season for a 29 year old: 57.4% completion, 225 yards per game, 14 TDs, 17 INTs, 6.5 yards per attempt, 11.4 yards per completion, QB rating of 72.6

Brian Hoyer's "rookie season" (also age 29): 55.3%, 237 yards per game, 12 TDs, 13 INTs, 7.6 yards per attempt, 13.7 yards per completion

(One guy had Pat Shurmur, one guy had Kyle Shanahan)



All good excuses, Hoyer was still terrible.



We have seen his ceiling. Hoyer played very well in the early part of the season. He either regressed or the league figured him out and he/we didn't adjust.



What's more insane is that with all the QBs we've had, none of them have been at least a little good. None of them have even been good after they left the team.



Why do that when you know someone isn't good?

lol. All the typical responses.

Hoyer was playing good football, and midway thru the season that changed. Is it all on him? I don't think so.

And why is it a stretch to say that the guy only has what 16 games as a starter? These guys don't have it all down in a year. I'm pretty sure that Hoyer knew how to prepare. Did the backups? The actual rookie receivers? Gordon? How about the rookie backs? Naw...everything was solid except Hoyer. Please.

I can't believe anyone can judge a single player based on all the variables that were constantly changing last year. And you know what? Both Weeden, and Hoyer have yet to be in year two of an offensive system that they actually played in. Carry on with the rush to judgement though.

Maybe the league did figure him out. I would bet it is more accurate to say that they figured out what the team couldn't do as well. Year one of a WCO and you expect miracles. You really think we had the whole playbook down cold?

It takes time for receivers and qb's to get on the same page.
It takes time for coaches to install more plays.
It takes even more time to teach it again/game-plan for the weaknesses of the backup that is forced to start due to injury.

And it takes WAY more time to develop consistency.

Maybe we have seen Hoyer's ceiling. Maybe we haven't. Its just not right to judge a player with all that went on last year.

Maybe we couldn't adjust. I mean how do you adjust to losing a pro-bowl center?
How do you adjust to losing the guy that calls out blocking schemes?
How do yo adjust to guys getting in the back-field from the A gap?
You try the backup to the backup center?

How about losing Austin? There is a reason he caught so many 3rd down conversions. It has to do with experience. How many of our receivers have that again? How many picks gordon own up to? How about rookie backs? Think they made any mistakes? Missed a block?

And don't get me wrong, Hoyer made some bone-headed throws, and missed some too.

All that crap adds up to broken plays, missed opportunities, and losses. Its never on one guy.

All this stuff takes time as a team. Developing players so there is less drop off, having backups know the system. Better yet having players replaced with better players, and now our backups have experience. Lots of reps.

Every qb we ever had sucked? Or did we ruin them? Imo its the latter.

Hoyer was plenty good enough to win with. Maybe he can't carry a team no matter what, but he certainly did enough until the wheels came off.

Are you saying that 16 games is not enough to conclude a guy has reached his ceiling?

Relax, I am agreeing w/you.

All I know is that I would rather have Hoyer than McCown. I think Farmer and Pettine are clueless about QBs.

You're right. Brian Hoyer is a potential franchise QB. I am sure teams will be fighting over him in free agency.

(Pink is the hyperbole font.)

He isn't, but that doesn't prove he has reached his ceiling and sure as hell doesn't prove he isn't better than McCown.

I think McCown doesn't need a lot of prep. Focus this year getting Manziel ready. I don't think the intention is getting either McCown or Hoyer ready to start. I think Hoyer wants another real shot at being a starter.

You are a football guy Vers.....that should make you aware it is about who a team wants to make it.


Of course, Hoyer is better then McCown, but you of all people should know that isn't the reason we went with McCown.


We are still firmly behind JM, and frankly, we should be, but not to get off on that debate, we didn't want a 5 year contract. We wanted a 3 year, and that is exactly what we did.

I bet we offered Hoyer a better contract and they decided to hit the market. Now that the Hoyer camp doesn't have us to drive a price, it will be interesting to see what he finally ends up with.


Also, just a thought, does signing McCown actually preclude us from signing Hoyer to another contract?
I will say that is a long shot, but it isn't impossible.

And that is what makes me upset, peen. Heck, I was in Manziel's camp. I had him ranked second after Teddy. But I watched him play this year and saw how he acted.

I admitted I was wrong about him. The Browns can't. They are force-feeding him onto the team.

Hoyer is gone because they knew that the players balked at JM starting over Hoyer. Have you ever witnessed a bigger lie-down by an entire team that Manziel's first game?

And this is precisely why Shanny wanted out of here. The FO is making decisions based more on marketing and Haslam's fantastical visions than on good, hard, concrete football decisions.

Marketing 101: get rid of the hometown hero that everyone loves and sign the crappy old turd as your QB.

But as a football guy you also know 1st round QBs are going to get the extra chances.


I explained my opinion in another thread. I am sure you will find it.


It is what it is. I guess I just don't get upset about it because it is going to happen.

Most people don't love Hoyer, but I do think his teammates were fairly united in their support for him over JM. Therefore, let's part ways w/him and bring in a stiff, that way there won't be as much outrage when JM is named the starter.

Marketing... IDK that Vers

Not changing the logo much was not a marketing move... this signing sure isn't going to prompt folks to go out and buy Browns gear or tickets.

And while I am not sold on this move... marketing is probably the worst argument against it.

What does Hoyer do better than McCown?

Both are bad.