DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Sign Josh McCown

Phew!!! I was coming here to express my great displeasure with the Josh McCown signing sure that irrational exuberance would need to be kept in check by my ever steady and sober appraisal of things but it looks like you guys have it covered in spades. Carry on with the crapalanche gentlemen.

Think people are upset? Just wait till Hoyer signs for about half of what McCown just landed.

I think we are closer to agreeing than disagreeing. To whatever extent the substance abuse issues hindered his NFL performance, correcting that issue will eliminate the obstacles created by substance abuse.

I happen to believe the issues of JFF's success run much deeper than that, but only time will tell.

And who would that average QB that we have had since 1999 be? To me that is the issue. We haven't had one.




You have one, and only one outlier listed and that's Trent Dilfer. Every other QB you mentioned had great raw skills and have proven to be far above the "average QB" you described above. Yes lightening can strike with average, but long term success can only happen with a good QB.



I don't believe that at all. All you need to do is look at our past drafts and where our primary investments have gone. Three times when we drafted a QB in the first round, all were our second picks in round 1. We have invested huge in the secondary, OL and the D front 7.

Now whether they have successfully built a team to support a QB may be a debatable subject, the effort to do so is clear when looking at the evidence. How about our top four investments in the FA market over the past two years?

j/c:

A few comments:

--Mourg: Shanny wanted to quit because of the dysfunction in the FO. Most guys want to lie about that and blame him for being a rat, but it is what it is.

--Yeah, I had JM as my number 2 guy. I did say he was boom or bust. I watched his actions and didn't get on him this year. I watched him play and I saw a guy who did not belong on the field. I can admit when I am wrong. Can you?

--The Browns blew it when they passed on Teddy and actually traded up for Manziel. I don't see how that is even debatable.

--It kills me that some are okay w/giving all that money to McCown, but don't want to pay Skrine $6 million. What?

--I am becoming more and more convinced that Farmer, Haslam, and maybe Pettine have no clue about the quarterback position.

--I have been thinking about this a lot..........I am wondering if one of the main reasons both Banner and Lombardi were fired was because they did not agree w/Haslam on Manziel. I know they sent Lombardi to do a year-long evaluation of him. I bet his evaluation sounded very similar to New England's. Connect the dots.

--I do NOT think the Browns are going to trade up in the draft for Mariotta or Winston. I'm good w/that.

--YTown is all for McCown being a mentor, but yet he didn't want Colt to have one. Gee, that is a surprise. What's that word that rhymes w/baloney?

--The Browns are in for a world of hurt next year. You guys can gang up and slame me--and a couple of others--for not agreeing w/you that everything is great, but that won't change reality. We've been through this so, so many times. You mock us, you act like we are clueless, you attack us, you dismiss us, you write posts about "why does anyone even respond to this guy...," you cry that we are attacking you for being positive...LOL, and no matter how many times it plays out..........you start the same old, tired crap all over again and act like there is no past history. It's truly amazing! Seriously! Truly amazing how you can put up such an unstable facade time after time after time.

Yeah - we're probably close. Especially if your thoughts on JFF issues are centered around his ability to play the position at a high level! As I said - my head says you can't judge a QB on the tiny sample we have seen from JFF ... heart says he is already and will forever be a bust. I hope my head is right!

No, he can improve if his skill set ever transfers to the NFL. But until we see whether that happens or not the QB position is certainly a question mark.



And I believe from reading this we are having a miscommunication. I don't think you need Dez Bryant and an Andrew Luck to succeed. However, I don't believe Miles Austin will be healthy enough to be productive for the next few years. I believe some upgrades will be made and personnel changes will take place in our WR group over that time. Just like I don't see Travis Benjiman being a part of the future.

You indicated that you felt we were stable at the WR position while I believe it's a position much more in flux.

I would also like to add this to my list:

I have no proof, but I have a feeling that the Browns made JM go to rehab.

I also would like to say that it's a given that everyone who goes to rehab gets cured, right? Hmmmm......let me go check:

That took about 5 seconds:



Yep, the Browns are good to go!!!! These guys are QB geniuses!!!!

You didn't upset me the first time. I just took it for what it was. Btw-----------I do forgive you. No big deal.

I wasn't making light of rehab. I posted a stat. I know people who have been in rehab. The success rates suck. I know some who have been in rehab several times.

My point was to refute those that somehow believe that just because JM has entered rehab, he will be fine in the future. The statistics don't support that claim. I am not making fun of anyone......I am just pointing out facts.

I hope that doesn't mean I have demons in me?

It doesn't

Sorry, went back and reread my post and thought I was stating continue building these areas. It did look like like I said everything was ok.

I do feel we have two good receivers. I would like adding like character pieces as Hawkins and Gabriel. I don't think investing in a first round necessarily gives you that option. I feel leadership is needed. Hawkins maybe? In the interim, Nate Washington? Continue adding players through the draft.

Hoyer's best chance at getting any significant money was re-signing with us. His value has cratered because of his horrible stretch of games to end the season.

I agree with you, people on here are going to lose their minds when he signs with some team like Buffalo or the Jets for one year and $3 million.

That Delhomme contract and situation was a disaster waiting to happen the moment he signed. He was clearly washed up. The Panthers paid him like $13 million to not play for them. And then we gave him $7 million guaranteed.

McCown and Delhomme are very similar. Delhomme was much worse in his last year with the Panthers than McCown was last year. Both were/are known to be great locker room guys. McCown is actually older than McCown was.

If McCown is starting for us week one we are screwed. I am holding out hope that we sign someone like Locker and McCown is just an insurance policy for when Locker gets hurt. I really don't understand how anyone can count on Manziel at this point.

I'm hoping that Hoyer gets signed by Houston. I think they are a great fit and are willing to pony up the money. He would do well there.

I don't think Hoyer can beat out Fitzpatrick.

Once mallet signs fitz will be the back up

My assumption is also that the Texans will re-sign Mallett. If that's the case then they will have no real interest in Hoyer (as long as Fitzpatrick is also around).

I could see Hoyer in Buffalo. It depends how anxious Rex Ryan is for a reunion with Sanchez.

I'd be cool with that. I do believe though, we will draft a 3rd QB so it would be: McCown, Manziel, rookie. Not many people would be OK with that, including me, so I really hope we go after Locker...

i look to sign somebody else at least and maybe drafting another. i just don't see the coaches being ok going into the season in the same shape or worse as we were last year. not with what they have all been preaching this off season.

Don't be suprised to see the Browns draft somebody in the 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th round who ends up being the one being coached up and who ends up starting the second half of the season.

that wouldn't surprise me one bit. we have far too many QB injuries for that not to happen, and that's the only way i would see him sniff the field the 1st year unless we're done with FA QB's.

i still don't see us going into the season with McCown as the only vet though.

You have to believe the FO is not finished yet at QB. Do they go with another vet, a draftee, or both?

hopefully it's both.
we don't need to get a QB that has to do it all on his own. we have an excellent run game going now so his work will be cut in half. and it's a good thing because of the lack of talent in FA this year. we still have to have a vet to fill in when the inevitable happens.

and we should never quit drafting QB's either IMO. the pats draft Qb's all of the time knowing dang well that not one of them will play as long as brady is alive. they still draft though because it's the smart thing to do.

Browns add great guy in Josh McCown, but who is quarterback?

By Pat McManamon
ESPN.com
Friday, February 27, 2015


The Cleveland Browns added a mentor to their roster when they signed Josh McCown.

How much of a player they added remains to be seen.

In Josh McCown, the Browns signed a 35-year-old quarterback who had a 1-10 record this past season in Tampa Bay.
McCown is a tremendous individual, but at 35, he's coming off a Tampa Bay season in which he was given the starting job and went 1-10 -- against the NFC South.

The Browns gave him a three-year deal. The team can explain its reasons, and those reasons could turn out to be correct. But at this point, this move seems to make as much sense as so many moves of the post-1999 Browns, which is to say very little.

The team will make its case. McCown can be a mentor. He doesn't have to start to do that; he wants that role. He worked with new offensive coordinator John DeFilippo in 2007 in Oakland. And the team concluded it does not see Brian Hoyer as a long-term starter.

They're entitled to those decisions, just as fans are entitled to throw their hands up and scream at the thought of McCown and Johnny Manziel as the team's quarterbacks in 2015.

So many questions follow, which isn't supposed to be the case when a team makes a signing at its most important position.

Do the Browns think McCown can start? Does what he showed in Tampa Bay give more belief than what Hoyer showed in Cleveland? Do they believe Manziel will be available to play this year? And if he is, do they believe, based on what they saw in the seven quarters he played, that he can be a starter? If they felt the need to sign McCown, what does it say about how the team feels about the available quarterbacks in free agency? Will they add anyone in free agency, and at what price?

At this point, the signs don't point to another major addition, except perhaps through the draft (has Marcus Mariota ever looked better?)

McCown was good two years ago as the backup to Jay Cutler. He had a positive effect on Cutler. Maybe he can do the same with Manziel.

But that doesn't eliminate the concerns about whether Manziel can succeed in the NFL, at his height and with his style and his commitment -- remember, he didn't know the plays when he finally started in Game 14 of the past season -- and whether McCown is even a starting quarterback in the NFL.

McCown actually falls into a pattern long established by the ever-changing organization that is the Cleveland Browns. That would be the pattern of the veteran quarterback signed late in his career -- too late to make a positive impact on the Browns.

Go down the list.

Jake Delhomme. Jeff Garcia. Trent Dilfer. They're all on the infamous jersey that no doubt will have a 23rd name (and second McCown) added to it in 2015.

All were going to be saviors. They all lasted one year.

Only in Cleveland.

At 6-3, then 7-4 the past season, the Browns seemed headed in the right direction. But things have unraveled wildly since.

An offensive coordinator left two years' pay on the table to get out, the general manager admitted to texting assistant coaches during games in violation of league rules, Manziel entered rehab, ticket prices went up, Josh Gordon was suspended and ... well ... it almost seems pointless to go on.

Except through it all, the Browns and owner Jimmy Haslam said things were fine and dandy. Now he has a 35-year-old quarterback to prove his point.

To which the only response seems to be: Seriously?


http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns...the-quarterback

j/c:

I think this sums up my opinion to why the Browns chose McCown over Hoyer. Now, we'll see how it all plays out.



Also, I think this is the real disconnect between the Browns and Hoyer. Hoyer believes should be viewed as a long-term starter; the Browns do not:



http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=18&post_id=42171

+1

It’s obvious to me that the Browns considered McCown the better fit in the role they envisioned – a potential short-term starter and real long-term mentor who will create no waves and do whatever is asked of him.

i can understand that completely as it was written. what i don't understand is the staff knowingly going into the season without a proven starter. whether McCown stays healthy all year or not. he is not a proven winner. if he goes down early in the season we will be force fed johnny even though he is not ready.
this QB lineup is what 1st rd picks are made of.

Knox, I really don't believe the Browns are going to draft a qb in round one.

It's obvious to me that's who we're targeting.

I came across an article yesterday (sorry I don't have a link), that states the Browns would have given serious consideration to drafting Hundley in the top 10 last year had he come out.

This frightens me because I see Hundley as a dud. Not only am I apprehensive about the Browns drafting him in the 2nd, but I am afraid that they might draft him in the 1st.

i don't think they will either but it won't surprise me either way.
the 1st rd pick comment was meant for next year if this is the lineup some think we will be going into 2015 with.

Basic business; Price vs Cost. The ongoing COST to keep the status quo is a lot higher than the PRICE you pay to move up to get Mariotta.

Great business people understand this.

Good point, Memphis. I don't believe anyone will disagree with that...

Great business people understand this.

great business people also know if mariota is good enough to be the new staus quo.

from the red zone........



CLEVELAND -- Browns new quarterback Josh McCown knows he's venturing into Brian Hoyer territory and that folks here can't understand why the Browns signed a quarterback who went 1-10 last when they have one of the roster who went 10-6 the last two seasons.

But he also knows that his woeful 2014 season in Tampa Bay was an aberration and that hopefully Browns fans will see more of the 2013 version of McCown who went 3-2 in Chicago while throwing 13 touchdown passes and only one interception than the one who struggled to pull the Bucs out of their slump last season.

He's also grateful to be coming to a place where fans care enough to wholeheartedly support the hometown guy and be angry when they feel he's being cast aside.

"I get it,'' McCown told Northeast Ohio Media Group. "I understand people's perceptions of me. I don't back off it or shy away from (the 1-10 mark in 2014). I understand people's frustration. But my mindset is to come in here, grow and improve as a football player, and help this team win football games.

"When I've been able to operate in a system that's organized and been around for awhile like I did in 2013 with the Bears, I've been able to play at a high level.''

Judging by McCown's contract, it's evident the Browns are counting on him to be more than just a mentor to Johnny Manziel. His three-year deal worth $14 million, including $6.25 million fully guaranteed, is commensurate with other "bridge'' quarterbacks who are paid to come in and start until a team finds its quarterback of the future. He'll make a guaranteed $5.25 million in 2015, with a chance to earn $2 million more per year with play-time incentives and if the Browns reach the playoffs.

His signing also effectively spells the end of Hoyer in Cleveland, and McCown appreciates the loyalty Hoyer has from Browns fans. Hoyer will likely sign with another team soon after he becomes a free agent March 10.

"I met Brian a few years ago at a workout for the Giants and I was impressed with him and I've rooted for him from afar especially with what he went through a couple of years ago with the knee and to come back this year,'' McCown said. "I love stories like that. It's awesome. I'm a fan of Brian and I his work ethic. It's been a great story of him playing right there in his hometown. Trust me, Growing up in Texas, I had dreams of playing for the Dallas Cowboys, so I can appreciate that 100%, and I don't take anything away from anybody who's thrown their support behind Brian.

"Whatever happens with Brian, I wish him well, but I certainly understand the loyalty to a hometown guy who's done the things that he's done and had a role in last year. So I get it, and that's why I'm excited about coming to the city because the get behind people and support the guys. And all I've heard over and over is how much that city loves the Browns, so it's exciting to come to a place like that. I'm looking forward to experiencing it.''

McCown, 35, also enthusiastically embraces the opportunity to mentor Manziel, Connor Shaw or any young quarterback the Browns bring in. His signing doesn't preclude the Browns from signing another veteran or trying to trade up for a Marcus Mariota.

"It's always my mindset with any room that I go into as a quarterback, especially at this point in my career, just to help those guys that are in that room to be better, because it helps our team to be better,'' he said. "I'll give them the knowledge I have to help equip them. Obviously whatever the expectation is for Johnny or Connor, I just want them to know I'm there and to be able to help them any way I can. That's the main thing.''

McCown admires the approach the Browns are taking with their No. 22 overall pick, who's currently in a rehab facility for possible alcohol and substance abuse issues.

"It was one of the things that impressed me about the Browns,'' said McCown, who also had offers from the Bills, Bears and Jets. "They care about Johnny getting healthy and getting better and that was their main focus. It didn't seem like they were too inclined to talk about where he's at football-wise right now because their focus -- and rightly-so -- is on Johnny being healthy.

"Our conversations were about what I can bring to the table and how I can help us. In regards to Johnny, it was more, 'we'll adjust the playing side of things when that day comes, but let's just make sure he's healthy.'''

McCown relishes the opportunity to try help Manziel reach his potential when he's back with the team.

"I know the team and Johnny's people are putting the best people around him,'' said McCown. "All I know is that when we work together, I want to help him grow as a football player and along this journey, whatever vocation you're in, if you're able to share some of your experiences and things to help somebody along their way and make their time at work better and hopefully consequently make their life better than it's a good thing. You can draw a lot peace from that.''

McCown met Manziel last year when he made a pre-draft visit to Tampa.

"We shook hands and kind of talked a little and I'm looking forward to getting to know him more and be a resource if I can be for him,'' he said. "We're both from Texas and my older brother (Randy) played at Texas A&M, so there's some common ground there and I just spent a year playing with his college receiver in Mike Evans, so we've got some commonalities there. It helps you when you're getting to know somebody to find some common ground to work from and as we get to know each other, we'll still work to earn each other's trust and move forward accordingly.''

McCown said he gained valuable insight into Manziel from Evans, who was Manziel's top target and best friend at A&M.

"Yeah, the times we talked throughout the year, Mike loved him,'' said McCown. "You can tell there's a sincere friendship there and brotherhood there for what they were able to accomplish at Texas A&M. It gives you a glimpse into who a guy is when you see how his close friends talk about him or how they feel about him. I saw how much he appreciated Johnny and rooted for him when he started to play last year. It speaks well of Johnny and it was fun to get to know Mike and get to know their connection at Texas A&M.''

McCown, who's gone 17-32 in his career, explained that his season unraveled last year in Tampa when then new offensive coordinator Jeff Tedford left the team for good in September after undergoing a coronary angioplasty. Tedford came to the Bucs from Cal, where he was head coach, and brought quarterbacks coach Marcus Arroyo with him from the college ranks. When Tedford left, Arroyo was thrust into the role of interim coordinator, and the offense never recovered.

"I understand it's a results-based business first and foremost,'' said McCown. "It's different than every other position. Last year, we went through a rare thing where we lost our offensive coordinator a week before the season and we were battling to kind of pull those pieces and find out who we are and become a good offense in the midst of that. The deficiencies we had on offense kind of stuck out because of the lack of cohesion.

"I just know in that situation, with losing our coordinator, I wasn't good enough to pull us out of that, I just wasn't,'' he said. "I would never shy away from it. (10-1) is what it is and I hate when I see it. Only a few guys can (pull a team out of that). I know who I am. I understand that. I know what fits me best is to play in a system that's tight and organized and well-planned and put together. ....They were coming from college into their first opportunities in the NFL and it was a tough card to be dealt for Marcus. he's a fantastic young coach. It was his first job in the NFL and then he had the deck stacked against him a little bit.''

That's why McCown is excited to work with new offensive coordinator John DeFilippo and quarterbacks coach Kevin O'Connell. He played for "Flip'' in 2007 in Oakland and knows how meticulous he is.

"I think just Flip's NFL experience alone will carry so much value for me and I think give me a better opportunity to recapture what happened in 2013 in Chicago,'' said McCown. "Once you spend a year with somebody, you really get to know him. It was great for me on my visit because I'm familiar with some of the terminology and it made me more excited.

"I'm going to really enjoy as we go through this offseason together and see the system that Flip's putting together. i'll enjoy learning it with the guys and making it our own. When you start to build it and tweak it and really bend it to your players and the players embrace it and it becomes their own, that's what gets really really fun and that's what I'm looking forward to.''

McCown said he was convinced he was going to Buffalo before spending last Tuesday and Wednesday with the Browns.

"As we moved through this process it was really apparent to me that Cleveland was where we're supposed to be, what I felt in my gut and the comfort level I have with Flip from before and after I met Mike (Pettine) and met and talked with Mr. (Jimmy) Haslam, and met Kevin O'Connell, there were good connections across the board with those people and I felt like they're closer than people think and I think in the end the connection with those people and the comfort I had with coach Pettine is really what made the difference.''

He said he didn't sense any of the dysfunction during his visit with the Browns that he had heard about beforehand.

"I don't get what everybody's talking,'' he said. "After talking to Mr. Haslam, I really feel he is bent on trying to figure out how to make this team a winner. I was really impressed with him. I've been in dysfunctional buildings and I did not get that.''

McCown said at the age of 35, he still feels he has the ability to make plays with his arms and feet, and also has 12 years' experience reading and studying defenses. He also said the Browns understand the need to play great defense and run the football when you're still in the mode of finding your quarterback of the future.

"I want to play smart football and one of things that excites me about coming here and was certainly a big factor in my decision was guys like (Alex) Mack and (Joel) Bitonio and (Joe) Thomas, that left side especially,'' he said. "To play with guys like that, as a quarterback it's very inviting, and you feel good about the protection they're going to provide for you and more importantly the run game that we're going to be able to establish and the mindset that coach Pettine has with running the football.

"That's what they can expect from me, once we get Flip's system up and running, that I can manage a system, that I can get us in and out of the plays and take care of us at the line of scrimmage and give us a chance to be in the best play possible. We'll run the football, but if they have to take that away, hopefully I'll be able to attack a defense with the passing game and things we can do outside. That's what i hope to bring to the table.''

McCown has already received the blessing of his younger brother Luke, now a backup quarterback with the Saints, who was drafted by the Browns in the fourth round of 2004, and went 0-4 that year.

"He was one of the first ones to say, 'man if you get it going, those fans are going to be behind you 100%, they love football,'' said McCown. "He couldn't say enough good things about it and he was really excited and supportive.''

Now, if McCown can just get the fans feeling the same way.

True! I believe he's better than any other option out there. Is he the answer? IDK but I do know what we have is not the answer either. Mariotta is the larger version of Manziel (college career).

Roll the dice and pay the price!

Josh McCown sounds like a stand up guy. If he is the bridge qb until JM is ready or for whoever else we may get so be it. I don't know for sure but it sounds like BH was not willing to do this.

favre didn't do it for aaron rogers either.